Donald Trump wins the presidency....

format_quote Originally Posted by Ineed Umar

I hope so that he would be sane enough to not add his xenophobic policies ...

Who says that he is going to be able to do anything at all? In fact, he hasn't done anything yet, but his very status as president-elect already leads to mass protests and rallies.



A (small) majority of voters wanted him as president, but a (large) minority will seek to oppose him in everything he does.

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by ___

You completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Of course, the Qur'an is relevant in all times and places. But if someone quotes an Ayah, for example: "And kill them (the kuffar) wherever you find them..." (2:191) to make the point that Islam is violent, does that make this Ayah relevant? No. That is exactly what you did (and not just on this thread). Look at it in context, don't pluck out verses from the Qur'an.

Sister, you will find numerous articles on the Internet and even lectures in real life on YouTube where you'll see the same ayah I quoted used for the specific purpose of making Muslims to understand that a beneficial event may appear harmful and a harmful event may appear beneficial and so we should trust Allah's Knowledge. Just so you know, Ibn Kathir says, "This Ayah is general in meaning. Hence, one might covet something, yet in reality it is not good or beneficial for him, such as refraining from joining the Jihad, for it might lead to the enemy taking over the land and the government. Then, Allah said:

[وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ]

(Allah knows, but you do not know.)

meaning, He has better knowledge than you of how things will turn out to be in the end, and of what benefits you in this earthly life and the Hereafter. Hence, obey Him and adhere to His commands, so that you may acquire the true guidance."

For example, in article called "Dealing With Grief in Islam (Part 4 of 5)" by J. Hashmi and "Closed Doors and Illusions That Bind Us" by Yasmin Moghdad, you'll see the same ayah used in exactly the ways I've told you it is used and has been used by Muslims in the past because the understanding of it has not been limited.

It is not my personal opinion, you used the Ayah to defend Donald Trump by implying he would be good for Muslims,

I do not say that he will be good for Muslims; I believe that he could be good for Muslims even if it doesn't appear to us that he is right now because we should trust Allah's Will and Plan. And I truly believe that if Allah has chosen him to lead U.S., then even as Muslims in whatever part of the world we should not become disheartened because we do not know the Wisdom of Allah in so having done.

and that is wrong and offensive. Did Musa, alayhi salam, accept Firawn as his leader just because 'Allah used Firawn for His Purpose'. No. That is very illogical. When you claim that it is OK for Muslims to live under the rule of a kuffar because of the Qadr of Allah, you are going against the teachings of our Deen. Yes, there is Hikmah in everything, and we have little knowledge, but we have the Qur'an and Sunnah, which does not teach us to rely on the kuffar to better the Ummah.

You've actually brought up different points, and let me address them all: To answer you briefly, Allah made Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) to live under the leadership of Firawn, yes, as a plan of raising the very person who would bring down Firawn's leadership from his own house and palace. I do not claim that it is okay or not okay for Muslims to live under the rule of non-Muslims - that is for scholars to determine; however, you should know that Muslim scholars have from time immemorial allowed Muslims to live under leadership of non-Muslims or move to non-Muslim lands for the purposes of dawah or to escape persecution; this is a fact.

None of this is my personal opinion. These are the teachings of our Deen. Read the stories of how our Prophet salaAllahu alayhi wa salam and the Sahaba radhiAllahu anhum dealt with other nations.

Frankly, sister, I know you mean well; however, I sense you being quite patronizing. I know well the stories of our Prophet ; in fact, I took Seerah classes taught by Muslim scholars and have read two different biographies of Prophet Muhammad . I do not say that my knowledge of Islam is complete as I do and always will InshaAllah (God-willing) consider myself a student of knowledge, yet to imply that I do not understand what I'm saying or have said is complete disregard for my differing understanding from yourself. Perhaps you should take your own advice, sister.

I do not want to continue this argument with you because I feel I have done my duty by giving you sincere advice and guidance as much as I can, I strongly believe that your view on politics and the Ummah is incredibly wrong, and I sincerely pray you see the point I am trying to make.

Allah knows best

Sister, I also do not wish to continue the argument; and I respect you want to give sincere advice and guidance; and I appreciate both, but what I do not appreciate and will not appreciate is you not accepting that the deen allows for differing understanding; and I do have and will continue to have different opinions, not only because Islam is a vast tradition but because I have been studying Islam long enough to know what is valid and what I suspect you're going to be finding out soon that many things you didn't think were valid are academically and scholarly considered valid in Islam and have long been considered valid in Islam.

(Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)


Well, if Trump doesn't make it, it will be Mike Pence who is his choice of VP. I don't know that the half of America that voted for Donald Trump has elected to vote for a psychopath so much as I think they aspired for a real change that President Obama promised but didn't deliver. And while I do think Donald Trump is a narcissist, I don't think he's a psychopath; but there's room for me to be proven wrong and we'll see.


There was a scene in a previously very famous and hit series known as Sex and the City that still has reruns on television in which women were discussing politics; and I think it was meant to be partially at least a joke, but they were discussing basically about whom they would vote into office based on attractiveness and perceived sexual prowess of the candidate; and frankly, yes, I do think perception of such unfortunately plays a factor. One of the nauseating things I have had to watch this election cycle is women fawning over Donald Trump. It was the same with Obama when he was running for elections in both primaries and when he was up for the candidacy of the highest office.

I don't know that women can learn from this; I think here culturally women are taught to be vicious and competitive with one another, and I think that also played a factor into how Hillary Clinton was not able to galvanize the female voter base. Women generally don't like other powerful women. Maybe some day there will be a likable enough woman against a sufficiently "ugly" male candidate for whom women don't vote. But I don't see that happening any time soon; and we still have to survive Donald Trump's reign first.

(And peace be upon you)

From what I've seen and heard of Trump, he certainly seems like a psychopath and is fulfilling many of the medical criteria. I should bet he one hoping I'm wrong though hehe

In terms of how women vote, you are right and it's the same problem in the UK. They are supposedly free though

@Reminder

SubhanAllah. No, I don't know the future. NauzubiLlah. Seek refuge in Allah from lightly throwing around accusations like that to other Muslims. That is far from what I meant.

Please show us where in the Quran, or hadith, that states this.

There are countless Ayat and Ahadeeth that tell us never trust the kuffar, never take them as leaders or allies, they are the losers, they cannot help us, only Allah can. This is not my personal view, for the last time. How can someone pluck out a verse from the Qur'an in defense of Donald Trump yet ignore the countless other verses that state the relationship between the believers and the kuffar? Alhamdulilah, from learning the Qur'an and the Seerah of our beloved Prophet salaAllahu alayhi wa salam, we learn how to deal with the kuffar.

SubhanAllah, Muslims are attributing themselves to nations other than the Ummah, arguing in defense of leaders who are killing their brothers and sisters, and it is frightening to even be discussing this topic.

"But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not" (Qur'an 2:216)

You would think this verse is quite clear, yes. But obviously, from this discussion it is evident that it is misunderstood. It doesn't apply to every situation of your choosing. You can't use Ayat to support what is Haram. NauzubiLlah. Donald Trump is an enemy of the Ummah. This is clear in itself from what he has said about Allah's Religion. Please, do not defend him by using your Lord's Words.

Telling someone 'you are a good person' and taking them as your leader by saying 'it is the Qadr of Allah' are totally different. Also, 'the Messenger' isn't a reliable source to get your information from. I can give you countless other sources of Umar ibn Al Khattab radhiAllahu anhum views on the kuffar. He was one of the greatest humans of mankind and it would be beneficial to study how he dealt with these people. This is a topic for all of us to study ourselves, not go back and forth with quotes here trying to validate our views.

Allah knows best.

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama

To all those muppet Muslims that are upset that their beloved Killery didn't win...

https://twitter.com/AHudhayfah/statu...30578579263488

The irony of you posting this video is this is exactly what I've been saying specific to Donald Trump's victory as president-elect of U.S.

And sister @___, you're wrong about a great many things and also specially specific to how that ayah can be used. I suggest you yourself consult scholars to understand how this ayah has been used in the past and continues to be used in the present. Frankly, giving fatwa (ruling) on how ayah cannot be used without having knowledge of how this ayah has been used in the past and continues to be used in the present is irresponsible and not your job as a layperson. Prophet said, “Whoever gives fatwā without knowledge, the angels of the heaven and the earth curse him."

Also, here's another article called "Whatever Allah Does It is For Our Best" from Mission Islam which again proves my point about how this ayah can be/has been used.

(And peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

having a love for one's homeland is part of our fitrah (natural disposition) as well.

Wouldn't this be classified as nationalism?

This has been typically understood to include one's homeland from Heavens but has also included attachment to one's homeland as long as the attachment is above one's allegiance to the deen.

do you not mean NOT above...?

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama

Wouldn't this be classified as nationalism?

No, the kind of nationalism that has been forbidden is if it leads to injustice and putting the allegiance of nationalism above the interests of the deen. One very saddening and evil example of this nationalism is Arab revolts from within the Ottoman Caliphate; this type of tribalism/nationalism is unacceptable and always will be unacceptable. However, having an attachment to one's homeland is recognized and considered natural; it is for this reason that Prophet's heart was always beating and wishing and longing for Mecca even when he'd been living in Medina. And it is for this reason we as Muslims long for Jannah even when we're in dunya.

do you not mean NOT above...?

Lol, yes; let me correct the above post to reflect that as well.

(And peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam

1) Most of the facts in those movies are false. If you want to learn Islaamic History, learn it from the authentic Kutub, not from movies made by Kaafirs.

2) It is Haraam to make movies/cartoons/plays about Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم and the Sahaabah. See the following Fataawaa:

https://islamqa.info/en/158232

https://islamqa.info/en/14488

That's beside the point.

My point is Allah (swt) is capable of using Kuffar to help us if he wants, contrary to what ___ says.

I'm nervous about how this is going to go. Trump is completely unfit to lead and I am shocked that he won, but now that he's in....I hope he does very little. I fear he may have an approval rating that's actually somewhat high though, which may give him some initial political capital to try and put something crazy into play. The reason for that is, I think he will behave himself relatively well and he will probably emphasize the term limits aspect of draining the swamp. There are many checks and balances to the power he might otherwise wield, but he has this term limits issue to fall back on, and as long as he's able to talk about that and tell both chambers of a Republican Congress that they're stalling and refusing to do the will of the people, he will be looking pretty good and they will be looking pretty bad. He could potentially ride that single issue to a 60% approval rating several months into his presidency, and I think he knows it.Now as for why and how he won, I think it was white people that made it happen more than anyone, along with all men in general. There were a ton of white people from rural areas that came out of the woodwork, people who hadn't voted in a presidential election in decades sometimes. They hadn't previously felt like they had someone to vote for who would work on their behalf, and to them, he seemed like the first choice they could actually get behind (plus a lot of these people have a 20 to 30 year head start on disliking Hillary). There is one other very large thing of note, though- you remember all those different people-groups that Trump insulted? He came at a lot of different people pretty hard- Mexicans, immigrants of all kinds, Muslims, women too but it doesn't apply to this particular point. The point is, when you look a Mexicans who voted (or Hispanics in general, either one) then break it down by gender, men within that sort of group were +20 for Trump compared to the women. Bear in mind, less than half of Mexican American men voted for Trump, but they did give him a lot more support than Mexican American women. You look at Muslims, and of course hardly anyone voted for Trump, but Muslim men were about +10 or +15 in his favor compared to Muslim women. The same type of thing went for every relevant group of people- if Trump went after them, the women recoiled from him very hard, and the men recoiled significantly less hard.Now, that's not to say Americans are expected to help a female candidate instead of a male candidate, and make a point of breaking the highest and hardest glass ceiling just for the sake of doing so. You do have to look at the qualifications abilities and competencies of each candidate....which in this case is not much of a comparison, once again I am shocked that Trump won. Again though, I am not suggesting that Americans should have elected a woman just to elect a woman. What I am suggesting is that Trump went after women pretty hard, he completely disrespected them, he's said some truly horrible things and done many really awful things. American women recoiled from all of this, as they should, because they care about this sort of thing and it matters to them. It should matter to men too, but apparently that was something that mattered much, much less to American men. This is an appalling lack of empathy that should not be terribly difficult for us to manage, and as a US citizen who's a white male, I am embarrassed to say that when you crunch the numbers and look at who's mostly responsible for getting him elected, it was pretty much everyone who is most specifically like me. I'm an Evangelical Protestant too, you can even include that because the Evangelicals as a whole were a rather important part of his base.It seems like this is the first time in forever that racial identity politics resulted in those sharing my racial identity voting as a bloc, and my goodness, we couldn't have done much worse could we?I find myself searching for silver linings, and I can find just two. One- that wall thing will never happen, I don't believe it's even possible to build one according to any of his specifications. And two- I had been sort of worried about the US going to war with Russia, but I seriously doubt that will happen now. And after four terms in which presidential wartime powers were gradually and seemingly permanently expanded, perhaps this is the president that Congress will finally see fit to rein in. Maybe they can concede to term limits in exchange for reworking the presidential wartime powers in a more reasonable way. That's the best case scenario that I can imagine, and I really need to try and think about something potentially positive because the alternative is too depressing. I'll give myself a few months to start thinking about that.

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

format_quote Originally Posted by cooterhein

That's the best case scenario that I can imagine, and I really need to try and think about something potentially positive because the alternative is too depressing. I'll give myself a few months to start thinking about that.

Another positive is that comedians will have the great material they need for writing. So, we can look forward to that.

But seriously, I think the silver lining for me is that liberals will now need to have difficult conversations about the future of Democrats; and they really did need to have this conversation; Democrats used to be a voice for the white working man, but it seems they have been ignoring him for decades, which is why the Rust Belt came out in droves and went out and voted for Trump.

Also, I now see that mainstream media projects and interprets much more than it reports actual facts; and I'm miffed with the mainstream media for that because the polls were not just a little wrong but extremely wrong leading right up to the election night about who was going to win; I think at least part of the win of Trump can be attributed to mainstream media who were lulling the Democrats into complacency who then didn't come out to vote because the idea was that it was impossible for her to not win.

Having said all that, I completely disagree with the "Not My President" movement that has taken to protesting the election on the streets; I understand that people are upset, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't be upset. However, the fact that some of the movements has at least seen resulted in some violence is completely unacceptable, unhelpful, and illiberal. And if I must speak bluntly, I do not see how this protest movement as helpful as we need to be able to heal and move as a country from the divisive rhetoric that shaped Trump's campaign in a positive and firm way; we need to be about the future and not the past.

And we should all adopt a wait-and-watch approach to Trump's presidency; yes, sure, I didn't vote for him. But we still need to keep an open mind. And as you are a fellow theist, praying for him to succeed is what we all need to do because our future depends on handling the job of being a president of the U.S. in a capable manner; let's hope having the "responsibility of the world" (pun intended!) on his shoulders humbles into realizing what an awesome responsibility this is and how he should handle it with the gravitas due to the position.

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

... I completely disagree with the "Not My President" movement that has taken to protesting the election on the streets; I understand that people are upset, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't be upset. However, the fact that some of the movements has at least seen resulted in some violence is completely unacceptable, unhelpful ...

A blanket condemnation of violence is often also unhelpful. It will not go away just by telling people that you dislike it. From our own perspective, we can usually not influence these things anyway. They are there and that's it. Therefore, the more interesting questions are: How can we benefit from the eruption of violence? Is there a way to thoroughly monetize it? Is there a business model that can thrive on that violence, use it as an input, and produce juicy amounts of dollars as an output? Just like everything else, unmanageable violence must be put to proper use, in such a way that it will line our pockets.

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by kritikvernunft

A blanket condemnation of violence is often also unhelpful.

Probably you are right; however, as a believer, I can't help but condemn these types of protests because not only I see this as protesting Allah's Will but a futile exercise that is resulting in some violence which is unhelpful for the public and the country; I want to move on and suggest others do the same; these protests are casting a pall over the country and are a type of negativity that's bringing others down.

It will not go away just by telling people that you dislike it. From our own perspective, we can usually not influence these things anyway. They are there and that's it. Therefore, the more interesting questions are: How can we benefit from the eruption of violence? Is there a way to thoroughly monetize it? Is there a business model that can thrive on that violence, use it as an input, and produce juicy amounts of dollars as an output? Just like everything else, unmanageable violence must be put to proper use, in such a way that it will line our pockets.

As a believer, I do not see how you can justify monetizing violence to line your pockets; that's some Machiavellian type of thinking, and I don't believe it is acceptable for a second; and I'm sure if you reflect on this matter you'll see why it's not acceptable for you to think that way either. I don't see violence as ever an answer in situations like this, brother, but I see moving forward and coming to terms with the reality as the way forward. Unmanageable violence only makes shaitaan (satan) happy but never Allah. Sure, we can profit from all kinds of things, but if the source of the profit is evil, then it's evil.

(And peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

Unmanageable violence only makes shaitaan (satan) happy but never Allah.

As long as you do not cause unmanageable violence, Allah may not be happy, but he will obviously also not blame you.

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

Sure, we can profit from all kinds of things, but if the source of the profit is evil, then it's evil.

Then do not profit from them, but suffer from them instead. That is obviously your own choice. ;-)