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    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

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    Salaam

    With Trump in power, Netanyahu has a free hand.


    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'


    Land grab law 'allows theft, stalls peace process'

    Law that retroactively legalises settler homes on private Palestinian land widely condemned as legitimising theft.


    Israel's land grab law that retroactively legalises thousands of settlement homes in the occupied West Bank legitimises theft, violates international law and ends the prospect of a two-state solution, according to politicians, legal experts and human rights groups.

    The so-called "Regulation Bill" instantly drew wide condemnation as it was voted in by members of the Knesset late on Monday with a 60 to 52 majority.

    The law applies to about 4,000 settlement homes in the West Bank for which settlers could prove ignorance that they had built on privately owned Palestinian land and had received encouragement from the Israeli state to do so.

    Three Israeli NGOs - Peace Now, Yesh Din and the Association for Civil Rights in Israel - and numerous Palestinians said they intend to petition the Supreme Court to cancel the law.

    UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said on Tuesday in a statement: "This bill is in contravention of international law and will have far reaching legal consequences for Israel."

    The EU's foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said in a statement that the bloc "condemns" the law and urges against its implementation "to avoid measures that further raise tensions and endanger the prospects for a peaceful solution to the conflict".

    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said the law was an aggression against the Palestinian people.

    "That bill is contrary to international law," Abbas said following a meeting with French President Francois Hollande in Paris. "This is an aggression against our people that we will be opposing in international organisations.

    "What we want is peace ... but what Israel does is to work toward one state based on apartheid."

    Hollande called on Israel to go back on the law, saying it would "pave the way for an annexation, de-facto, of the occupied territories, which would be contrary to the two-state solution".

    Hours before Abbas' meeting with Hollande, Saeb Erekat, secretary general of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation, told the Associated Press news agency that the law puts "the last nail in the coffin of the two-state solution".

    Calling the move "theft", Erekat said the ruling showed "the Israeli government trying to legalise looting Palestinian land".

    The Arab League also accused Israel of "stealing the land" from Palestinians.

    "The law in question is only a cover for stealing the land and appropriating the property of Palestinians," said the head of the Cairo-based organisation, Ahmed Aboul Gheit.

    Palestinian owners will be compensated financially or with other land, but cannot negotiate their terms.

    The law is a continuation of "Israeli policies aimed at eliminating any possibility of a two-state solution and the establishment of an independent Palestinian state", Aboul Gheit said.

    Jordan, one of the few Arab states to have diplomatic ties with Israel, also denounced what it called "a provocative law likely to kill any hope of a two-state solution".

    According to the UN envoy for the Middle East peace process, Nickolay Mladenov, the law crosses a "very thick red line" towards annexation of the occupied West Bank, and sets a "very dangerous precedent".

    Speaking to the AFP news agency, he said: "This is the first time the Israeli Knesset legislates in the occupied Palestinian lands and particularly on property issues."

    He also raised the possibility the law could open Israel up to potential prosecution at the International Criminal Court, a threat Israel's own top government lawyer, attorney general Avichai Mandelblit, has also warned of.

    Mladenov called for strong international condemnation of the legislation but declined to criticise the US after President Donald Trump's administration refused to comment on it.

    Trump is more sympathetic to Israel's settlement policies than previous US presidents; the Israeli government has approved plans to build thousands of new homes on occupied territory since the far-right leader settled into the White House.

    "I think that is a very preliminary statement," Mladenov said. "Obviously they do need to consult, this is a new administration that has just come into office and they should be given the time and the space to find their policies."

    White House spokesman Sean Spicer said the US was likely to discuss the law with Netanyahu when the Israeli prime minister visits on February 15, but did not comment further in a press briefing on Tuesday.

    David Harris, head of AJC, the global Jewish advocacy organisation, said that "Israel's High Court can and should reverse this misguided legislation" ahead of Netanyahu's meeting with Trump in February.

    That was also the message from Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman, who said last week: "The chance that it will be struck down by the Supreme Court is 100 percent."

    'Against all international laws'

    International law considers all settlements to be illegal, but Israel distinguishes between those it sanctions and those it does not, dubbed outposts.

    A Palestinian Cabinet minister also called on the international community for support.

    "Nobody can legalise the theft of the Palestinian lands. Building settlements is a crime, building settlements is against all international laws," said Palestinian Tourism and Antiquities Minister Rula Maayaa. "I think it is time now for the international community to act concretely to stop the Israelis from these crimes."

    Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, called the law "unacceptable" and urged the international community to act immediately.

    "This is an escalation that would only lead to more instability and chaos," Rdeneh said.

    Palestinians want the occupied West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip - territories Israel occupied in the 1967 Middle East war - for their future state.

    The international community views settlements as illegal and an obstacle to reaching peace.

    Shortly before leaving office, US President Barack Obama allowed the UN Security Council to pass a resolution declaring settlements illegal.

    Tobias Ellwood, Britain's Middle East minister, also condemned the land grab bill, saying it "is of great concern that the bill paves the way for significant growth in settlements deep in the West Bank".

    Yuval Shany, an international law professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said the law violates basic rights, interferes with property rights and is discriminatory because it regulates only the transfer of land from Palestinians to Jews.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/israel-land-grab-law-ends-hope-state-solution-170207143602924.html
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Greetings and peace be with you Junon;

    The Jews are wrong, they go against God, and this is from their own scriptures..........


    Ezekiel 47
    21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign LORD.

    Leviticus 24
    You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19
    33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Exodus 12:49
    The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."

    Exodus 22:21
    "Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

    Leviticus 19:10
    Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

    Eric
    3 | Likes Bushwackk, azc, Al Sultan liked this post
    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    I don't know why the Palestinian leaders are such sycophants to those Marxists and their "international community" and United Nations commie paper shufflers and "international law", all controlled by the Zionist elite. Do the Palestinian leaders just want a soft life apparently doing nothing? I suppose they are in a hopeless situation because they are poor and weak and the Jews are rich and powerful.

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Salaam

    Another comment piece.

    Trump shifts stance on two-state solution to Israel-Palestine conflict

    President suggests wider accord but urges pause on settlement expansion


    Donald Trump retreated from two decades of US policymaking in the Middle East on Wednesday when he said the two-state solution was not the only way to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    Flanked by Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, Mr Trump said he was looking at a solution that would-“take in many countries and would cover a much larger territory”.

    “I am looking at two-states and one-state [solutions], and I like the one that both parties like,” Mr Trump said, before the two leaders held their first official meeting.-

    Mr Trump also urged Israel to-“hold back” on building in Jewish settlements in the West Bank for “a little bit”. He told the Palestinians to-“get rid of some of the hate they are taught from a young age” in pursuit of a peace deal.-

    “The US will encourage a peace and really a great peace deal,” Mr Trump said in his first substantive remarks on the conflict since taking office last month.-“We will be working on it really, really diligently. But it is the parties themselves that must negotiate such an agreement.”

    Mr Trump said the US was looking at a-“new concept” that would involve other countries, echoing remarks by a White House official on Tuesday evening that suggested the US was abandoning the two-state paradigm.-

    “It is something that is very different, hasn’t been discussed before,” Mr Trump said. “It is a much bigger deal, much more important deal in that it takes in many countries and would cover a much larger territory.”

    Mr Trump’s remarks are likely to fuel confusion in the region as to Washington’s approach to one of the world’s most intractable conflicts. The US president has named-Jared Kushner, his property developer son-in-law, as a Middle East envoy with a brief to work towards a peace deal.-

    Officials in the Trump administration and rightwing politicians in Israel have spoken of addressing the conflict via a regional agreement that would broaden traditional bilateral talks and bring in other Arab states, an approach viewed with suspicion by many Palestinians.-

    In the wake of Mr Trump’s election victory, Israeli MPs have floated ideas including the annexation of large Jewish settlement blocs in the West Bank and the creation of a Palestinian mini-state in Gaza and parts of Egypt’s Sinai peninsula.

    Mr Erekat scoffed at what he called “silly ideas” when asked about the latter proposal, saying: “Sinai is an Egyptian territory.”-

    He added that the alternative to a two-state solution would be “one secular state where Jews, Muslims and Christians will be equal”, and called on the world to stand by its principle of a Palestinian state on pre-1967 lines existing alongside Israel.-

    However, Naftali Bennett, head of Israel’s far-right, pro-settler Jewish Home party, hailed Mr Trump’s remarks as “new ideas” and the start of “a new era”.

    “No need for 3rd Palestinian state beyond Jordan & Gaza.” Mr Bennett, who is education secretary, said on Twitter. “Big day for Israelis & reasonable Arabs.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/8943c782-f34e-11e6-8758-6876151821a6

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    What is absolutely astonishing is the inability of the Arab nations to fight a single country and yet they are more than happy to bomb each other. Ridiculous.

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    Junon's Avatar
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Salaam

    Another update. Good summary of why the two state solution failed.

    Despite Trump’s Statements, Abbas and Palestinians Get Another Reprieve

    Palestinian security official: Washington establishment understands that Palestinian Authority keeps the peace


    The Palestinian leadership did not conceal its concern over leaked reports that the Americans had renounced their support for establishing a Palestinian state. In fact, that wasn’t the unequivocal message Donald Trump’s statements conveyed at the press conference on Wedensday. Every side could find signs in them to strengthen his position.

    Even if the United States does renounce its backing for a Palestinian state, what will actually change? The U.S. administrations before Trump spoke about some two-state solution and did nothing to carry it out. That is, they did nothing to stop Israel from thwarting it. But their declarations and promises enabled the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah to lie to itself and to its people that this was the solution the great power supported.

    This ongoing lie – backed by massive American financial assistance – was one of the tools with which the leadership of the PLO, Fatah and Palestinian Authority marketed the rationale for its existence. This lie helped it to justify keeping its agreements with Israel, including the security coordination. No wonder the U.S. contributes considerable sums of money to the Palestinian security forces.

    The different music now coming from the White House raises the question of whether the changes in the United States could weaken the Palestinian leadership’s status even further in the Palestinians’ eyes, and whether, therefore, its existence is in danger.

    Trump came and Trump will go, while the Palestinians remain with their demand to be freed of Israeli rule, which for them means military occupation, colonialism, apartheid. For the Palestinian people here and the diaspora these are not slogans but everyday reality.

    Twenty-four years ago this nation had a popular leadership that gave Israel and the Jews a generous gift – the two-state solution. That’s how the Palestinians interpreted the Oslo agreement. But Israel rejected the gift.

    The Palestinian leadership could understand even before Yitzhak Rabin’s murder that Israel was bluffing. That it may be saying “two states” but building enclaves. The PLO stuck to the negotiation policy in the hope that the West would pressure Israel, that there would be positive political changes in Israel and that the Arab states would act. But there’s another reason, too. The Palestinian leadership converted the bureaucracy of a national liberation organization to a ruling bureaucracy, complete with self-preservation and clinging on to one’s standing.

    PA President Mahmoud Abbas and his colleagues’ fear of a military deterioration that would harm their people (like the second intifada) is real and justified. But it is mixed with his and the ruling circle’s personal interests.

    At the same time the illusion of limited sovereignty within the Palestinian enclaves took shape. The PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza provide basic services to their public and enable public activity that weren’t allowed under the direct Israeli occupation.

    With all the criticism against the PA for corruption, dictatorial tactics, inefficiency, social gaps, etc., it still services the public’s immediate fundamental needs.

    Trump’s presidency is not a sufficient reason to break up the PA and plunge Palestinian society into chaos and turmoil. The Palestinian leadership has received another time out.

    A Palestinian security official told Palestinian media on Wednesday about the CIA chief’s meeting with Abbas. The message behind the leak was clear. “Don’t worry, the Palestinian Authority’s existence is important to the United States. The Washington institutions understand that maintaining the enclave regime promises a fragile kind of security stability.”

    They are probably telling the new president the same thing. The main thing undermining this precarious stability is not Trump, but an escalation in Israel’s oppression and settlement policy.

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2017/02/16/sounds-right/

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    What many of us fail to grasps are the way people talk and take action.

    We live in times, that you MUST STOP listening to what they are saying and promising. Look at the actions. When i for example say to person X, i will not hit you, psychologically person X will not approach me violently or brace himself for impact and i can catch him off guard. Rasullah(saws) has said years of confusion will come, if it is these times or beginning of those times or they still have to come Allah knows best. However, the biggest fight now a days is on psychological front.

    Looking at Trump in his election days and what he said and what he is doing now, all is in support of Israel. If it is in support of Israel, then one can imagine that there will be NO 2 state solution whatsoever. As this is NOT what the Zionist state wants. It is the same psychological game. The Arabs are very naive indeed. Turkey is using the Arabs, US is using the Arabs, Israel is using the Arabs, UK is using the Arabs..and the Arabs don't see it. You could almost say Allah(swt) has made them blind for what is going on.

    Another example, in US, those secret intelligence agencies say often very smart things. One of them is when somebody says "Is it true that x and y is this and that?". Their response is, "we cannot confirm it or deny it| . When somebody tells you that, this psychologically is messing with your brain. When you get YES, your plan is based on YES, if it is NO, your plan is based on NO. However, having no answer is hard to plan ahead or brace yourself for something. They have given a answer, but also no answer.

    However, it all seems the beginning of the end. A train that has left and it is acceleration with each minute.

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you Junon;

    The Jews are wrong, they go against God, and this is from their own scriptures..........


    Ezekiel 47
    21 “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign LORD.

    Leviticus 24
    You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19
    33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Exodus 12:49
    The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."

    Exodus 22:21
    "Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

    Leviticus 19:10
    Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

    Eric
    Greetings Eric,

    I think you mean to say that the Israelis are wrong or the Zionists are wrong. Most Jews I know want a free Palestinian State that is unmolested by their neighbor. The sooner the better. It sickens me that Christians support Israel as the only democracy in the region when that “democracy” has millions fenced up in a concentration camp and suspends deliveries of food and services at will.
    3 | Likes sister herb, Eric H, Grandad liked this post

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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Greetings and peace be with you Aryeh Jay; welcome to the forum, and thanks for your reply,

    I think you mean to say that the Israelis are wrong or the Zionists are wrong.
    My apologies.

    Most Jews I know want a free Palestinian State that is unmolested by their neighbor. The sooner the better.
    That would be good to see a free Palestinian State, but why has it not happened if most Jews also want it too?

    It sickens me that Christians support Israel as the only democracy in the region when that “democracy” has millions fenced up in a concentration camp and suspends deliveries of food and services at will.
    I went to Jerusalem in 2009, I saw the devastation of bulldozed Palestinian houses with the furniture still inside. I saw the poverty of the Palestinians. Justice can only be justice when it applies to all people equally.

    In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

    Eric
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    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you Aryeh Jay; welcome to the forum, and thanks for your reply,



    My apologies.



    That would be good to see a free Palestinian State, but why has it not happened if most Jews also want it too?



    I went to Jerusalem in 2009, I saw the devastation of bulldozed Palestinian houses with the furniture still inside. I saw the poverty of the Palestinians. Justice can only be justice when it applies to all people equally.

    In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

    Eric
    Thank you for the warm welcome.

    Well, I said most Jews I know but 51-59% of regular Israelis support a two state solution. It is the Right Wing Government of Israel that opposes it. And with President Trump in Netanyahu’s pocket, it may be a while before we see it.

    I too have seen the suffering of the Palestinian people first hand. I have seen the destruction that a 500 pound bomb does to a civilian apartment building because a rocket “may” have been fired nearby.
    2 | Likes Mustafa16, Grandad liked this post

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Greetings and peace be with you all,

    Please take a moment to read and sign this petition, they have around a 150,000 signatures so far. Stop Israeli bulldozers destroying Palestinian homes.

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/stop_the...3647947&c=GBP&

    To the families of Pope Mountain, and leaders around the world:

    As citizens from around the world, we want you to know that you are not alone. We stand with you and support your nonviolent sit-in to defend your homes, land and way of life. We call on all world leaders to demand that Prime Minister Netanyahu cancel all plans to destroy this community. We specifically call on the European Union and International Criminal Court to urgently make clear to the Israeli government that destroying this community crosses red lines and will have serious repercussions.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

    Eric
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    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    Greetings and peace be with you Aryeh Jay; welcome to the forum, and thanks for your reply,



    My apologies.



    That would be good to see a free Palestinian State, but why has it not happened if most Jews also want it too?



    I went to Jerusalem in 2009, I saw the devastation of bulldozed Palestinian houses with the furniture still inside. I saw the poverty of the Palestinians. Justice can only be justice when it applies to all people equally.

    In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

    Eric
    thank you @Eric H and @Aryeh Jay it touches my heart to see non muslims sympathizing with human rights abuses committed against muslims. unfortunately, the people in power in israel do not want a state, and the more they committ violations, the more palestinians react, and when they react, the israelis use it as an excuse to scare their citizens and grab even more land in the name of "security" i am eagerly awaiting the coming of the Mahdi and Isa (A.S.)
    2 | Likes Aryeh Jay, Grandad liked this post

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryeh Jay View Post
    Thank you for the warm welcome.

    Well, I said most Jews I know but 51-59% of regular Israelis support a two state solution. It is the Right Wing Government of Israel that opposes it. And with President Trump in Netanyahu’s pocket, it may be a while before we see it.

    I too have seen the suffering of the Palestinian people first hand. I have seen the destruction that a 500 pound bomb does to a civilian apartment building because a rocket “may” have been fired nearby.
    I am new here. Wasn't going to comment, but could not resist.

    Perhaps you are being too hasty with your assessment of Israeli Right Wing Government disposition towards 2-state solution.

    It is a fact that current Israeli Government is not 'in love' with an idea of Palestinian State next to Israel, but it is also a fact that that very Right Wing Israeli Government will ' live' with Palestinian State next to Israel. Israelis do not want it, but they will acquiesce to it.

    Israel has demonstrated its willingness to proceed with creation of Palestinian State. Several offers have been made over the past 20 years. Some were great offers and some less so. All offers were rejected by PLO and its successor PA. Why?

    Anyway, it is all too late now in my view.

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by ethnhunt View Post
    I am new here. Wasn't going to comment, but could not resist.

    Perhaps you are being too hasty with your assessment of Israeli Right Wing Government disposition towards 2-state solution.

    It is a fact that current Israeli Government is not 'in love' with an idea of Palestinian State next to Israel, but it is also a fact that that very Right Wing Israeli Government will ' live' with Palestinian State next to Israel. Israelis do not want it, but they will acquiesce to it.

    Israel has demonstrated its willingness to proceed with creation of Palestinian State. Several offers have been made over the past 20 years. Some were great offers and some less so. All offers were rejected by PLO and its successor PA. Why?

    Anyway, it is all too late now in my view.
    Stealing land and then creating "great offers", on your terms, to the people you stole it from is criminal. This is coming from the same people who have literally wiped villages, towns and cities off the map after comitting genocide on the people that lived there.

    Regardless if there is a possibility for a 2 state solution, israel will not last
    1 | Likes Abz2000 liked this post

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by ethnhunt View Post

    Anyway, it is all too late now in my view.
    Why do you think it is too late now? Welcome to the forum btw, loving the M.I reference hehe.

    Scimi
    Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'


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    Aryeh Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by ethnhunt View Post
    I am new here. Wasn't going to comment, but could not resist.

    Perhaps you are being too hasty with your assessment of Israeli Right Wing Government disposition towards 2-state solution.

    It is a fact that current Israeli Government is not 'in love' with an idea of Palestinian State next to Israel, but it is also a fact that that very Right Wing Israeli Government will ' live' with Palestinian State next to Israel. Israelis do not want it, but they will acquiesce to it.

    Israel has demonstrated its willingness to proceed with creation of Palestinian State. Several offers have been made over the past 20 years. Some were great offers and some less so. All offers were rejected by PLO and its successor PA. Why?

    Anyway, it is all too late now in my view.
    When I was Jewish and in Israel, I could see with my own eyes how receptive and willing Israel was in creating a Palestinian State.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...r-gaza-bombing

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/w...eats.html?_r=0
    1 | Likes Grandad liked this post

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryeh Jay View Post
    When I was Jewish and in Israel, I could see with my own eyes how receptive and willing Israel was in creating a Palestinian State.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...r-gaza-bombing

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/w...eats.html?_r=0
    As you were Jewish before and you have been in the middle of those people who call themselves Jewish but have nothing to do with Judaism. What goes through their minds? Do they disregard everybody else who is not Jewish as some subhuman? And do they have no feelings regarding other human beings even if it is a child being killed? What is going on? Could you please share some of your observations regarding their mentality and their behavior.
    1 | Likes Abz2000 liked this post

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    As you were Jewish before and you have been in the middle of those people who call themselves Jewish but have nothing to do with Judaism. What goes through their minds? Do they disregard everybody else who is not Jewish as some subhuman? And do they have no feelings regarding other human beings even if it is a child being killed? What is going on? Could you please share some of your observations regarding their mentality and their behavior.
    I wish I knew Brother but I do not. I do know that the attitudes and relations between Muslims and Jews in the United States are much closer than in Palestine. I know that there some good Israelis that have a sense of justice but they are in the minority and face backlash from their neighbors if they appear to be Palestinian sympathizers.
    1 | Likes AbdullahAziz liked this post

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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    Why do you think it is too late now? Welcome to the forum btw, loving the M.I reference hehe.
    Scimi
    Thank you. Its nice to be here. Although, methinks that M.I. reference in my handle may prove to be prophetic, as I see that there is a LOT OF opposition to my FIRST post. It may in fact be a Mission Impossible! We shall see...

    Well, - to adress your point...

    I am not totally sure that 2 state solution is possible considering the political climate at the moment. I am also not sure at all if a future Palestine can exist without a good will from Israel. I am definetely sure that Palestinian Arabs do not want a 2 state solution. It is selve-evident.

    For 2-state solution to happen, the Arabs must give the Jews what the Jews really want and that might include Jerusalem along with a few existing populated areas on the West Bank and no return of refugees. In theory, a far reaching compromise is good for both parties; - the Arabs of Palestine get political independence and Israeli economic support with a free trading zone perhaps.

    The Israelis get security, ownership of their ancestral land and both get a friendly neighbor. Eventually the Israeli-Palestinian borders will disappear and the only place where the world will see an Israel-Palestine confrontation is at the Olympic Games or a soccer stadium. Borders are irrelevant when there is mutual respect; Canada-US comes to mind here. This will take a long time...or may never happen.

    On the other hand, there is Jordan, - an existing Palestinian country, why not have a confederation? Divide up the West Bank between Israel and Jordan. Jordan absorbs the Arab West Bank population. Reparations are paid to the victims and to those who lost property and we are done. Most Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank hold Jordanian passports already.

    But...none of the above is even remotely possible now. It used to be possible, but not any longer. Arabs refused the offer made in 2000 and they also refused the offer made in 2008 and 2010 and 2013. They were offered 95.6% of what they asked for and still they said 'NO'. THose offers will not come again. It is self-evident that PA leadewrship wants Palestine instead of Isarel, not next to Israel, - so it is a 'no go' from Isareli prespective.

    Look, - I am not an Isareli nor am I a Jew. I do not have an agenda in this, but we should not blaim ONLY Isarel for the problems that Palestinian Arabs have today.
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    Re: Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

    Quote Originally Posted by keiv View Post
    Stealing land and then creating "great offers", on your terms, to the people you stole it from is criminal. This is coming from the same people who have literally wiped villages, towns and cities off the map after comitting genocide on the people that lived there.

    Regardless if there is a possibility for a 2 state solution, israel will not last
    Why do you say that Israelis steal land? Are you implying that Isarel has no right to be around? Historically the Jews are the indiginiouse people of that area.

    Perhaps you should know that Palestine is a creation of Roman Empire. There were never a country called Palestine and there were never a people called Palestinians. These terms are very new; they took hold in the past 100 years only. Golda Maer held a Palestinian Passport in 1930s.

    Anyway, Romans conquered Judea back more then 2000 years ago, destroyed the Jewish Temple and attempted to exile the Jews. In order to separate the Jews from the Jewish Land the Romans re-named Israel ‘Palestina’. This was a common practice back then, - change the name of the land and you will de-facto change the people.

    Modern day Palestinians are Arabs of Muslim faith. Their ancestors came to the land that became known as Palestine back 1300 years ago, when Islam broke out of Arabia and violently ceased the land that today is known as Israel. Crusaders tried to take back the land from the Muslims, sometimes successfully but most often not.

    ‘Palestine’ changed hands over the past 2000 years a few times, - most recently the Turks ruled over it for about 400 years until the British took control as a result of the 1st World War. Finally in 1948 the Jews were restored to the land by the order of UN and the rest is, as they say, - history.

    So, - what we have here is the Arabs and the Jews with claims to the Land. Both claims are valid. The Jews have a better case, in my opinion, as they have been there much longer. Notice, that the Christians also can raise a claim to the land and that may also be valid, but they never did because there are many Christian countries out there and the Christians really only want a control of Christian religions places, which they now have.

    Please look at the published data on population density in Israel. For example, - Jerusalem has always had a majority Jewish population.

    Perhaps you should re-evaluate your views.

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