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US dictating Saudi religious policy

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    US dictating Saudi religious policy (OP)


    Salaam

    Most interesting. Who controls the Sauds?



    DKg7EuTXcAARRGL 1large - US dictating Saudi religious policy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Salaam

    Wow its already having an effect

    Mecca imam slammed for claiming Trump 'steering world to peace'

    Abdul Rahman al-Sudais claims Saudi Arabia and US are leading world to peace and security, sparking outcry on social media



    We have to raise the question whether the Sauds are worthy of being the Custodians of the two holy sites.

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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

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    Salaam

    Another update

    Some Saudis apprehensive over 'blistering' social change

    Social changes sweeping Saudi Arabia have been embraced by many but Ibrahim, a middle-aged teacher, frowns as he rejects the "blistering and shocking" reforms that are breaking long-held taboos.

    The kingdom's ambitious de facto ruler, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, has introduced multiple economic and social innovations in a kingdom where public life was once severely curtailed by uncompromising religious police.

    Under the reform drive, women are allowed to take the wheel of cars after a decades-old driving ban was scrapped, and permitted to go to stadiums to watch sports and concerts.

    Cinemas were reopened after many years of closures, noisy parties are permitted, and authorities turn a blind eye as shops remain open during prayers times -- a grave offence in the past.

    The metamorphosis has been widely welcomed in a country with a large youth population, and endorsed by clerics perceived to be pro-government.

    But some conservative Saudis beg to differ, even if they do so quietly for fear of punishment.

    "Loud musical parties, mixing of the sexes and easing restrictions on the female dress code -- these were all unthinkable just a few years ago and are not permissible in the home of the two holy mosques," said Ibrahim, a 55-year old Arabic teacher.

    "Of course, there was hidden moral degeneration in the country like all other countries. Now it has become public," the bearded father of five told AFP, declining to use his full name due to the sensitivity of the issue.

    He shook his head as two women walked past, their billowing traditional abaya cloaks worn unfastened and revealing skinny jeans underneath.

    Along the boulevards of Riyadh and on restaurant terraces, men and women can now be seen socialising together, reflecting a quiet end to the ban on the mixing of the genders.

    Foreign women are now, in theory, allowed to venture out without the black abaya and some pioneering Saudi women are daring to do the same.

    "My problem is not with freedom. My problem is that it is freedom without restrictions and guidelines," Ibrahim said as he walked out of a mosque in central Riyadh.

    "I asked religious scholars and they said we have to obey the Almighty, the Prophet and the rulers. Therefore I accept the reality as they -- the rulers -- are responsible for us," he said.

    - 'Everything is possible'-

    Given the reluctance to speak out against the crown prince's vision for the country, which is aimed at bringing in investment and diversifying the oil-reliant economy, it is hard to know the extent of the pushback among ordinary people.

    Even as the kingdom has forged ahead with the reforms, it has earned condemnation for a heavy-handed crackdown on dissidents including intellectuals, clerics and female activists.

    A government official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he is not allowed to comment publicly, defended the reforms, saying they "are needed by the Saudis to feel they are leading a normal life."

    At the end of last year, Riyadh hosted the three-day MDL Beast, billed as the biggest party ever hosted by the conservative kingdom where hardliners have long opposed music shows.

    Touted by some as Saudi Arabia's Woodstock, international DJs blasted dance music as thousands partied in the open air for three days, including women -- many of them unveiled and sporting glittery face paint.

    "I refuse to allow my children to go to such parties. They asked me and I refused," said one government employee, who declined to be named.

    "I am not sure if they went without telling me. Everything has become possible these days," said the father of four, including two girls.

    "The problem is not with the change. The problem is that it has not happened gradually. It has taken place so suddenly," said the 47-year old man as he drank coffee at a cafe outside Riyadh.

    Two sides collide? -

    Even among some young women, the transformation has been head-spinning.

    "The openness happened in an unpleasant and shocking way and without preparation," said Manar Sultan, a 21-year-old student dressed in the traditional abaya.

    "We have moved from the extreme right to the extreme left in the blink of an eye," she said at an amusement park in Riyadh.

    Local media have published reports in the past few months of cars owned by women being set ablaze in several Saudi cities -- some of the victims accused unidentified men of acting in protest over the lifting of the driving ban.

    In a gesture appeared to be aimed at alleviating the fears of conservatives, Saudi authorities last month held 200 people, including dozens of women, and penalised them for wearing improper dress and other "moral" violations.

    "There has been a giant change but things remains fragile and extremely delicate," said one diplomat who has lived in Riyadh for the past six years.

    "Many people support it and many others oppose it. The problem is if the two sides collide."

    https://news.yahoo.com/saudis-appreh...151938420.html
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Land of Tawheed eh?



    In a further sign of liberalisation in Saudi Arabia, hearts and flowers are everywhere as the Kingdom prepares to celebrate Valentine’s Day.

    Arab News reports that Saudis are buying extravagant gifts, flowers, cheesy balloons and even teddy bears for that special person.

    As recently as three years ago it would have been unthinkable to celebrate Valentine’s Day as it was considered haraam. Many Islamic scholars consider celebrating the festivals of the non-Muslims to be forbidden.

    Florists and confectioners used to hide their red roses and heart-shaped chocolate in fear of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice. Restaurant owners even banned birthday or anniversary celebrations on Feburary 14 for fear of arrest or closure.

    But in 2018 former Makkah CPVPV President Sheikh Ahmed Qasim Al-Ghamdi declared that Valentine’s Day did not contradict Islamic teaching or doctrine. Celebrating love was universal, and not limited to non-Muslims, he said.

    “Celebrating Valentine’s Day does not contradict Islamic teachings as it is a worldly, social matter just like celebrating the National Day and Mother’s Day,” he told Saudi media. “All these are common social matters shared by humanity and are not religious issues that require the existence of religious proof to permit it.

    “There are many worldly things that we deal with morally that may be of interest to non-Muslim communities and became more common among Muslim communities because of their popularity,” he said, citing the Prophet (pbuh) as an example. “The Prophet dealt with many worldly things that came from non-Muslims.

    “Even greeting peaceful non-Muslims in their special religious holidays is permitted without participating in a forbidden act that contradicts Islam,” he said, downplaying perception that it was an imitation of non-Muslims when Muslims also celebrate the day of love.

    Since Mohammed bin Salman became de facto Saudi leader he has overseen the liberalisation of the country including a burgeoning entertainment industry.

    The history of Valentine’s Day is shrouded in mystery like that of its patron saint, Saint Valentine.

    One theory suggests Saint Valentine was a priest who served during the 3rd Century in Rome, who was executed for defying a decree from Emperor Claudius II that outlawed any remaining single men from marrying as they were better soldiers than those who had already wed.

    According to the story, Valentine was sentenced to death after continued to he was found to be performing secret marriages for love-struck couples.

    By the Middle Ages, Valentine would become one of the most popular saints in England and France, for his symbolism of love.

    https://5pillarsuk.com/2020/02/14/sa...alentines-day/

    And these 'scholars' wonder why their credibility is going down the drain.
    Last edited by Junon; 02-14-2020 at 12:12 PM.
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Another update.



    Meanwhile.

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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Related, interesting analysis of whats going on.

    Blurb

    In this video, I am talking about the sham trials of 5 Kurdish journalists and its similarities to the sham trials in Saudi & UAE. I talk about the ‘security for skirts’, ‘security for silence’ and ‘security for salary’ trade offs in Kurdistan.

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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Another update, the ideology of Saudism takes root.





    So MBS is going down the UAE route, steady erasure of the Islamic basis of its society.
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers." Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not. (al-Baqarah: 11-12)
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    format_quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Salaam

    The globalists snap their fingers the Sauds obey.

    I will return Saudi Arabia to moderate Islam, says crown prince

    Mohammed bin Salman tells the Guardian that ultra-conservative state has been ‘not normal’ for past 30 years


    Saudi Arabia’s crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, has vowed to return the country to “moderate Islam” and asked for global support to transform the hardline kingdom into an open society that empowers citizens and lures investors.

    In an interview with the Guardian, the powerful heir to the Saudi throne said the ultra-conservative state had been “not normal” for the past 30 years, blaming rigid doctrines that have governed society in a reaction to the Iranian revolution, which successive leaders “didn’t know how to deal with”.

    Expanding on comments he made at an investment conference at which he announced the launch of an ambitious $500bn (£381bn) independent economic zone straddling Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt, Prince Mohammed said: “We are a G20 country. One of the biggest world economies. We’re in the middle of three continents. Changing Saudi Arabia for the better means helping the region and changing the world. So this is what we are trying to do here. And we hope we get support from everyone.

    “What happened in the last 30 years is not Saudi Arabia. What happened in the region in the last 30 years is not the Middle East. After the Iranian revolution in 1979, people wanted to copy this model in different countries, one of them is Saudi Arabia. We didn’t know how to deal with it. And the problem spread all over the world. Now is the time to get rid of it.

    Earlier Prince Mohammed had said: “We are simply reverting to what we followed – a moderate Islam open to the world and all religions. 70% of the Saudis are younger than 30, honestly we won’t waste 30 years of our life combating extremist thoughts, we will destroy them now and immediately.”

    The crown prince’s comments are the most emphatic he has made during a six-month reform programme that has tabled cultural reforms and economic incentives unimaginable during recent decades, during which the kingdom has been accused of promoting a brand of Islam that underwrote extremism.

    The comments were made as the heir of the incumbent monarch moves to consolidate his authority, sidelining clerics whom he believes have failed to support him and demanding unquestioning loyalty from senior officials whom he has entrusted to drive a 15-year reform programme that aims to overhaul most aspects of life in Saudi Arabia.

    Central to the reforms has been the breaking of an alliance between hardline clerics who have long defined the national character and the House of Saud, which has run affairs of state. The changes have tackled head-on societal taboos such as the recently rescinded ban on women driving, as well as scaling back guardianship laws that restrict women’s roles and establishing an Islamic centre tasked with certifying the sayings of the prophet Muhammed.

    The scale and scope of the reforms has been unprecedented in the country’s modern history and concerns remain that a deeply conservative base will oppose what is effectively a cultural revolution – and that the kingdom lacks the capacity to follow through on its economic ambitions.

    The new economic zone is to be established on 470km of the Red Sea coast, in a tourist area that has already been earmarked as a liberal hub akin to Dubai, where male and female bathers are free to mingle.

    It has been unveiled as the centrepiece of efforts to turn the kingdom away from a near total dependence on oil and into a diverse open economy. Obstacles remain: an entrenched poor work ethic, a crippling regulatory environment and a general reluctance to change.

    “Economic transformation is important but equally essential is social transformation,” said one of the country’s leading businessmen. “You cannot achieve one without the other. The speed of social transformation is key. It has to be manageable.”

    Alcohol, cinemas and theatres are still banned in the kingdom and mingling between unrelated men and women remains frowned upon. However Saudi Arabia – an absolute monarchy – has clipped the wings of the once-feared religious police, who no longer have powers to arrest and are seen to be falling in line with the new regime.

    Economically Saudi Arabia will need huge resources if it is to succeed in putting its economy on a new footing and its leadership believes it will fail to generate strategic investments if it does not also table broad social reforms.

    Prince Mohammed had repeatedly insisted that without establishing a new social contract between citizen and state, economic rehabilitation would fail. “This is about giving kids a social life,” said a senior Saudi royal figure. “Entertainment needs to be an option for them. They are bored and resentful. A woman needs to be able to drive herself to work. Without that we are all doomed. Everyone knows that – except the people in small towns. But they will learn.”

    In the next 10 years, at least five million Saudis are likely to enter the country’s workforce, posing a huge problem for officials who currently do not have jobs to offer them or tangible plans to generate employment.

    The economic zone is due to be completed by 2025 – five years before the current cap on the reform programme – and is to be powered by wind and solar energy, according to its founders.

    The country’s enormous sovereign wealth fund is intended to be a key backer of the independent zone. It currently has $230bn under management. The sale of 5% of the world’s largest company, Aramco, is expected to raise several hundred billion dollars more.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...m-crown-prince
    Wow what a radical prince. I have heard rumours that the Al Saud family were crypto Jews and no wonder as they talk like globalist cultural Marxist Jews. Well if he is absolute monarch then the people of Arabia can ask him to step down if they are not happy with his anti Islam policies and if he refuses, the people of Arabia have the right by Allah to cut off his head. Sounds extreme but it is written in the Noble Quran.
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    So, I touch on this on the latest podcast. I started a podcast last Ramadhan because of lockdown, I couldnt go to the masjid and thought i would utilise my time InshaAllah. In the podcast we touch on
    1) What was the purpose behind the Pope's visit to Iraq?2) How is the Vatican used by the US?
    3) How is the Interfaith project being used to change Islam?

    Have a listen InshaAllah and share.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g53j2bD5NJw


    Also available on all Podcast providers:


    itunes:
    https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/talking-minaret/id1510992450#episodeGuid=Buzzsprout-8139482
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Another update.

    The new 'Saudism' takes hold.



    Lots of comment.











    And a lot more to be said but I wont spam.

    Meanwhile, at this rate they will be building temples soon

    blurb

    Ramayan & Mahabharat will soon be taught in Saudi Arabia. Crown Prince MBS has directed schools to include the 2 Indian epics in their curriculum. It's a big message of co-existence.




    A weeks a long time on politics.



    Last edited by Junon; 04-29-2021 at 11:49 PM.
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Maybe this prince is under the control of the American empire just like Herod was under the control of the Romans and he had to deal with "extremists" the zealots. Maybe if he does not do what he is told he will end up like Saddam Hussein.
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Well Trump crude and vulgar as he is did give them a reality check on who their security depends on.



    Saudi have been dependent on USA/UK etc for many decades but there was some room for indepdendent behaviour mainly due to oil, so it gave them some leverage. With the Iraq war in the 1990s Saudis became heavily dependent on USA for its protection. This coupled with the decline in the oil economy has boxed them into a corner. Finally the failure to unseat Assad and the disastrous civil war that unfolded further compounded the decline of Saudi influence. This caused immense disquiet among its traditional allies (hence Trumps ultimatum and European states willing to talk with Iran). And lets not forget the aftershocks in the wake of the Arab spring.

    So all these factors plus many others (domestic etc) has led to a changing of the guard so to speak. Hence the rise of MBS.

    I dont think any sane person would take any religious instruction from this clown for obvious reasons.

    You could say MBS is following in the footsteps of the athiest Ataturk or the Shah of Iran in his 'modernising' reforms but more likely hes going to follow the path trailblazed by MBZ who is busy dismantiling, distorting, erasing the Islamic basis of UAE and replacing it with a variant of secular liberal ideology.

    It will be slow and gradual but we see it happening.



    Recently Loudspeakers have been banned from Masjids.



    Remember the time when Saudis used to justify themselves on the basis they were Islamic? See how thats all suddenly changed? Now the new trend is 'Saudism'

    The only good thing about this is that the mask has finally come off and Muslims can plan and act accordingly.
    Last edited by Junon; 06-08-2021 at 07:56 PM.
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  16. #112
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Another update. From the UAE.



    Meanwhile in Qatar

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  17. #113
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Another update.



    Edit - Related the new 'Saudism' takes hold.





    comment.







    Last edited by Junon; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:52 PM.
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  18. #114
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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Oh dear - More on the new Saudism.

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    Re: US dictating Saudi religious policy

    Salaam

    Another update.



    Saudi seeks religious reset as clerical power wanes

    Muezzins issuing high-decibel calls to prayer have long been part of Saudi identity, but a crackdown on mosque loudspeakers is among contentious reforms seeking to shake off the Muslim kingdom’s austere image.

    Saudi Arabia, home to the holiest Muslim sites, has long been associated with a rigid strain of Islam known as Wahhabism that inspired generations of global extremists and left the oil-rich kingdom steeped in conservatism.

    But the role of religion faces the biggest reset in modern times as Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, spurred by the need to diversify the oil-reliant economy, pursues a liberalisation drive in parallel with a vigorous crackdown on dissent.

    Chipping away at a key pillar of its Islamic identity, the government last month ordered that mosque loudspeakers limit their volume to one-third of their maximum capacity and not broadcast full sermons, citing concerns over noise pollution.

    In a country home to tens of thousands of mosques, the move triggered an online backlash with the hashtag “We demand the return of mosque speakers” gaining traction.

    It also sparked calls to ban loud music in restaurants, once taboo in the kingdom but now common amid liberalisation efforts, and to fill mosques in such large numbers that authorities are forced to permit loudspeakers for those gathering outside.

    But authorities are unlikely to budge, as economic reforms for a post-oil era take precedence over religion, observers say.

    “The country is re-establishing its foundations,” Aziz Alghashian, a politics lecturer at the University of Essex, told AFP.

    “It’s becoming an economically driven country that is investing substantial effort in trying to appear more appealing – or less intimidating – to investors and tourists.”

    In the most significant change that began even before the rise of Prince Mohammed, Saudi Arabia neutered its once-feared religious police, who once chased people out of malls to go and pray and berated anyone seen mingling with the opposite sex.’

    In what was once unthinkable, some shops and restaurants now remain open during the five daily Muslim prayers.

    As clerical power wanes, preachers are endorsing government decisions they once vehemently opposed – including allowing women to drive, the reopening of cinemas and an outreach to Jews.

    Saudi Arabia is revising school textbooks to scrub well-known references denigrating non-Muslims as “swines” and “Tapes”.

    The practice of non-Muslim religions remains banned in the kingdom, but government advisor Ali Shihabi recently told US media outlet Insider that allowing a church was on “the to-do list of the leadership”.

    Authorities have publicly ruled out lifting an absolute ban on alcohol, forbidden in Islam. But multiple sources including a Gulf-based diplomat quoted Saudi officials as saying in closed-door meetings that “it will gradually happen”.

    “It’s not an exaggeration to say that Saudi Arabia has entered a post-Wahhabi era, though the exact religious contours of the state are still in flux,” Kristin Diwan, of the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington, told AFP.

    “Religion no longer has veto power over the economy, social life and foreign policy.”

    In another shift, observers say Saudi Arabia appears to be turning its back on global issues affecting fellow Muslims, in what could weaken its image as the leader of the Islamic world.

    “In the past its foreign policy was driven by the Islamic doctrine that Muslims are like one body – when one limb suffers the whole body responds to it,” another Gulf-based diplomat told AFP.

    “Now it is based on mutual non-interference: ‘We (Saudi) won’t talk about Kashmir or the Uyghurs, you don’t talk about Khashoggi’.”

    Prince Mohammed, popularly known as MBS, has sought to position himself as a champion of “moderate” Islam, even as his international reputation took a hit from the 2018 murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul.

    He has vowed to crack down on radical clerics, but observers say many of the victims have been advocates for moderate Islam, critics and supporters of his rivals.

    One such cleric is Suleiman al-Dweish, linked to former crown prince Mohammed bin Nayef, MBS’s key rival.

    Dweish has not been seen since his detention in the holy city of Mecca in 2016 after he tweeted a parable about a child spoiled by his father, according to London-based rights groups ALQST and a source close to his family.

    It was seen as a veiled insult to MBS and his father King Salman.

    Another is Salman al-Awdah, a moderate cleric detained in 2017 after he urged reconciliation with rival Qatar in a tweet. He remains in detention even after Saudi Arabia ended its rift with Qatar earlier this year.

    “Politically, MBS has eliminated all his rivals, including those who shared many of the same goals of religious reform,” said Diwan.

    https://www.khmertimeskh.com/5087893...l-power-wanes/
    chat Quote


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