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'150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

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    '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan (OP)


    Salaam

    Another update on the situation in Afghanistan

    Rare interviews with militants shine light on resilient movement that resisted both Obama’s surge and now Trump’s ‘killing terrorists’ strategy

    Squatting on the floor, a brown shawl draped over his shoulders, the Taliban commander and his bodyguard swiped on their phones through attack footage edited to look like video games, with computerised crosshairs hovering over targets. “Allahu Akbar,” they said every time a government Humvee hit a landmine.

    Mullah Abdul Saeed, who met the Guardian in the barren backcountry of Logar province where he leads 150 Taliban militants, has fought foreign soldiers and their Afghan allies since the US-led coalition invaded Afghanistan when he was 14. The Taliban now controls its largest territory since being forced from power, and seems to have no shortage of recruits.

    By prolonging and expanding its military presence in Afghanistan, the US aims to coerce the Taliban to lay down arms, but risks hardening insurgents who have always demanded withdrawal of foreign troops before peace talks.

    In interviews with rank-and-file Taliban fighters in Logar and another of Afghanistan’s embattled provinces, Wardak, the Guardian found a fragmented but resilient movement, united in resistance against foreign intervention.

    Referring to Barack Obama’s surge, Saeed said: “150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us.” And an extra 4,000 US soldiers, as Donald Trump will deploy, “will not change the morale of our mujahideen,” he said. “The Americans were walking in our villages, and we pushed them out.” For the Taliban to consider peace, he said, “foreigners must leave, and the constitution must be changed to sharia.”

    Active Taliban footsoldiers rarely agree to meet western reporters. Men such as Saeed, who spoke without leadership permission, provide valuable insight into a movement that after 16 years in armed opposition remains largely an enigma.

    Arriving on a motorbike kicking up dust, Saeed and his Kalashnikov-carrying bodyguard, Yamin, were aloof at first but warmed as the conversation evolved. Saeed said that as the war has changed, the Taliban have adjusted, too. US soldiers now predominantly train Afghans, and have ramped up airstrikes.

    “It’s true, it has become harder to fight the Americans. But we use suicide bombers, and we will use more of them,” Saeed said. “If the US changes its tactics of fighting, so do we.” That change has meant ever-fiercer attacks, with large truck bombs in populated areas and audacious assaults on military bases.

    In April, Taliban fighters in army uniforms stormed a northern army academy and killed at least 150 soldiers in the biggest assault on the army of the entire war. This month, suicide bombers wiped out a whole army unit, ramming two Humvees packed with explosives into a base in Kandahar.

    As Saeed spoke, three young boys from the civilian family at the house where the interview took place brought tea. They giggled as they listened in on the fighters’ radio. Saeed spoke with a calm, professorial demeanour but his words brimmed with the anger of a man who has spent his adult life fighting a generation-long war, and lost 12 family members doing it.

    Pressed on the record-high number of civilian deaths in the war, he said the Taliban “make mistakes” and try to avoid harming civilians, but added: “If there is an infidel in a flock of sheep, you are permitted to attack that flock of sheep.”

    The Taliban was always outnumbered and technologically outmatched by its foreign adversaries, but is arguably at its strongest since 2001, threatening several provincial capitals. The movement, though, is divided, with some lower-ranking commanders backing rivals of the current chief, Mawlawi Haibatullah, or more radical outfits such as Islamic State. But rifts have not stopped the group from advancing.

    Saeed claimed: “10-15 people join the mujahideen [in Logar] every day, sometimes also policemen,” adding that mistreatment by government and foreign forces helps recruitment.

    “Many Taliban become suicide bombers after prison. Why?” he asked, describing how prison guards torture detainees by applying air pressure, beatings or electric shock to their genitals. After a detainee is released, he said, the shame is too much to bear. Such claims of government torture have been documented by the UN.

    While few in the international community think the war can be won militarily, the US shows little intention of reviving the dormant peace process. “We are not nation-building again. We are killing terrorists,” Trump said when announcing his south Asia strategy. “In the end we will win.” Crucially, Trump has not established criteria for when US troops will be pulled home.

    In a separate interview in the beleaguered Wardak province, Omari, 23, who has six years’ frontline experience, told the Guardian he had considered leaving the insurgency and taking his family to Kabul. “But if the Americans come back to Wardak, I will fight them,” he said. Omari was less cavalier than Saeed about civilian casualties, which he said damaged the Taliban’s standing with ordinary Afghans, who have become more reluctant to shelter them.

    Yet, the two militants did agree on one thing: American soft power is as dangerous as uniformed soldiers, especially as US troops have dwindled in numbers. That belief materialised last year when militants, in a stunningly grisly attack, stormed the American University in Kabul, killing 16 students and staff members. In the capital, many regard the university as one of the pinnacles of post-Taliban Afghanistan.

    Though no group claimed responsibility for the attack, Saeed and Omari agreed the university posed a threat. “We should kill those teachers who change the minds of society,” Saeed said.

    Currently, the Taliban seem capable of upholding a slow-burning war, with the help of outside benefactors. After recent US pressure on Pakistan to crack down on militant sanctuaries, some Taliban fighters consider opting for another regional neighbour, Omari said: “Many Taliban want to leave Pakistan for Iran. They don’t trust Pakistan anymore.”

    Pakistan denies harbouring militants, but Saeed admitted receiving assistance from Pakistan, though he denied being under anyone’s thumb. “Having relations is one thing, taking orders is something else,” he said. “Every party, if they want to be stronger, need to talk to other countries. We should talk to Iran, and we should talk to Pakistan. Just like the Afghan government goes to India and China.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/31/150000-americans-couldnt-beat-us-taliban-fighters-defiant-in-afghanistan

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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

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    Salaam

    format_quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    From Junon "You misunderstand, its not 'impossible' though it will take a long time. It will have to account for how the world has changed and will have to adapt and confront new realities. We had it however imperfect in the past, it can happen again".

    Please explain, the world has not changed, people have not changed, they are still full of hypocrisy and bigotry and their own code of hate. I believe a caliphate is impossible because most "Muslims" don't want it. The Zionists are using the internet, mass media and television to brain wash people into being liberals. It is a very effective insidious weapon and most of the world population will be converted.
    Because we had it in the past if you understand the basics of Islamic history. When Americans invaded Afghanistan who could of imagined (other than those who believe) that 20 years later they would be defeated. Not saying its going to be easy or even a top priority given the immense problems and divisions amongst the Ummah but its something to aim for.

    Another update. western perspective.

    The economy has juddered to a halt, nobody is getting salaries and many things have closed. People are just desperate for money and work.

    There is drought, hunger, Covid and poverty, as well as all the issues with women's rights and human rights.

    The Taliban are no doubt militarily in control, but they have to address what the UN is calling a looming humanitarian catastrophe.




    More reconciliation

    Last edited by سيف الله; 09-06-2021 at 07:41 PM.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Salaam

    Like to share.



    Last edited by سيف الله; 09-09-2021 at 07:24 PM.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Salaam

    You wont be hearing this on mainstream news.

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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Salaam

    A weeks a long time in politics, sad to see but reflects the changing political realities in Afghanistan. Why are they doing this. Is it part of a deal with the US? Gulf shiekhs want this? Or maybe they want o consolidate complete political power.



    Fair comment.



    Last edited by سيف الله; 09-11-2021 at 06:33 PM.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by سيف الله View Post
    Salaam



    The only side he is on is himeself, He adopts the values of whoever is employing him.



    Though being a Shia the mask has come off, the irony is is that the Taliban have promised to protect the Shia of Afghanistan, (they recently allowed Shia processions in Kabul).

    heh

    wa'alaykumussalaam. jazakAllah khayr for the info
    '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Jabir bin 'Abdullah narrated that the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) said:'A slave (of Allah) shall not believe until he believes in Al-Qadar, its good and its bad, such that he knows that what struck him would not have missed him, and that what missed him would not have struck him." (Jami 'at Tirmidhi)
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Salaam

    Like to share.





    His first report.



    Second report.





    Comment from Afghans.



    More.

    Afghans are facing medieval levels of poverty and destitution amid U.S. economic warfare. Roshan Muhammed Salih visited a street market in Kabul to find out more.



    And more reporting.





    Afghans raising concerns about girls schooling.





    More generally



    Reason number 120239434 why western powers were defeated in Afghanistan.





    Any Muslim who knows the basics should understand this.



    Sister Bibi (native who actually lives in Afghanistan) giving sensible advice.



    And again - reason number 120239435 why the occupation was defeated. the cluelessness of these westerner saviour types is truly astonishing, have they learnt anything?



    Last edited by سيف الله; 11-13-2021 at 12:16 AM.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Most of his information actually came from mainstream western media. Didn't you pay attention?
    He cited Fox News, BBC, The Guardian and other western media outlets.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Salty arent you? Too bad for you plenty of better alternative sources of news and information to get the news from. Dont like it? Deal with it.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Militarily the US defeated Al Queda and wiped out a whole generation of the Taliban. The US was not defeated militarily. It was only after they withdrew that the Taliban were able to reassert themselves. The people of Afghanistan decided they wanted to live again under barbaric medieval Islamic fundamentalism. Good luck to them !
    Poor things !
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Spiritlead View Post
    Militarily the US defeated Al Queda and wiped out a whole generation of the Taliban. The US was not defeated militarily. It was only after they withdrew that the Taliban were able to reassert themselves. The people of Afghanistan decided they wanted to live again under barbaric medieval Islamic fundamentalism. Good luck to them !
    Poor things !
    Interesting perspective. The US military, among others, have been shamed on an international stage by a bunch of bedouins in flip flops. No generation of the Taliban has been wiped out and their presence has always been there, keeping the barbaric occupiers in check. That embarrassment of what you would consider a successful military campaign, which lasted decades mind you, was undone in an instant. Because the rape thirsty barbaric Americans couldn't beat them by force, they then ramped up the MSM agenda full throttle by painting the Afghans as a helpless people (ie. 2001 all over again). That has since died down because people have slowly forgotten the clown show, IE. defeat, of the US running away with it's tail between it's legs.

    For the innocent Afghans that haven't been "liberated" yet, you know, blown up by US drones and all, I'm sure they're happy to not have to live under the LGBTQQIP2SAA freak show you guys are forcefully trying to shove down everyone's throats.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    It’s a fact. The US exterminated that whole generation of Islamofascists responsible for the World Trade attacks. The situation in Afghanistan only fell apart when the US left. Not before.
    The West a “LGBTQQIP2SAA freak show “? Really ? You mean (the West) is the most prosperous and advanced civilisation in world history. So much so that Muslims are clambering over themselves to get there. The West has to put fences up to keep them out.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by keiv View Post
    Interesting perspective. The US military, among others, have been shamed on an international stage by a bunch of bedouins in flip flops. No generation of the Taliban has been wiped out and their presence has always been there, keeping the barbaric occupiers in check. That embarrassment of what you would consider a successful military campaign, which lasted decades mind you, was undone in an instant. Because the rape thirsty barbaric Americans couldn't beat them by force, they then ramped up the MSM agenda full throttle by painting the Afghans as a helpless people (ie. 2001 all over again). That has since died down because people have slowly forgotten the clown show, IE. defeat, of the US running away with it's tail between it's legs.

    For the innocent Afghans that haven't been "liberated" yet, you know, blown up by US drones and all, I'm sure they're happy to not have to live under the LGBTQQIP2SAA freak show you guys are forcefully trying to shove down everyone's throats.
    I wouldnt mind waste your time with these low grade ignorants - let them stew.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Spiritlead View Post
    It’s a fact. The US exterminated that whole generation of Islamofascists responsible for the World Trade attacks. The situation in Afghanistan only fell apart when the US left. Not before.
    The West a “LGBTQQIP2SAA freak show “? Really ? You mean (the West) is the most prosperous and advanced civilisation in world history. So much so that Muslims are clambering over themselves to get there. The West has to put fences up to keep them out.
    "Islamofascists", "medieval", "barbaric"...all typical slogans of Zionists and liberals alike. I also find it kind of odd that you, a "christian", would come running to the defense of "LGBTQ+". Yes, the West USED to be a great civilization, most certainly, but ever since it was usurped by Jews, misandrists, degenerates and other leftist freaks (escalating particularly after WWII) it most certainly became NO LONGER a great civilization. The only Afghans that are clambering over each other to get to the West are traitors, homosexuals, misandrists, thieves and other degenerates, scoundrels and criminals. Sane minded Afghans on the other hand (which count for the vast majority) would much rather stay right at HOME and are actually better off WITHOUT the turncoats. The "medieval" huh? I tell you what, if *I* had some kind of time machine and could go back to the Medieval times I'd do it in an INSTANT...a MUCH better preference than living in this degenerate toxic madhouse of a world where a fanatical globalist Liberal Tyranny (aka Kultur-Terror) is shoved down everyone's throats!

    As for the World Trade attacks, that was an inside job carried out by Zionists and blamed on "the Muslims". They carried it out to "justify" endless false flag wars as part of an ambitious and narcissistic plot to foist their totalitarian Zionist World order, first on all the Muslim countries, and then the entire world. Any sane person can see that this is glaringly obvious.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    "Islamofascists", "medieval", "barbaric"...all typical slogans of Zionists and liberals alike. I also find it kind of odd that you, a "christian", would come running to the defense of "LGBTQ+". Yes, the West USED to be a great civilization, most certainly, but ever since it was usurped by Jews, misandrists, degenerates and other leftist freaks (escalating particularly after WWII) it most certainly became NO LONGER a great civilization. The only Afghans that are clambering over each other to get to the West are traitors, homosexuals, misandrists, thieves and other degenerates, scoundrels and criminals. Sane minded Afghans on the other hand (which count for the vast majority) would much rather stay right at HOME and are actually better off WITHOUT the turncoats. The "medieval" huh? I tell you what, if *I* had some kind of time machine and could go back to the Medieval times I'd do it in an INSTANT...a MUCH better preference than living in this degenerate toxic madhouse of a world where a fanatical globalist Liberal Tyranny (aka Kultur-Terror) is shoved down everyone's throats!

    As for the World Trade attacks, that was an inside job carried out by Zionists and blamed on "the Muslims". They carried it out to "justify" endless false flag wars as part of an ambitious and narcissistic plot to foist their totalitarian Zionist World order, first on all the Muslim countries, and then the entire world. Any sane person can see that this is glaringly obvious.
    Zionists, totalitarian Zionist World order, globalist Liberal Tyranny. All typical slogans of rabid paranoid conspiracy theorists.
    Defending LGBQ+?? What makes you think I am?
    I notice you live in the Antipodes. Where ? Australia or New Zealand. If so you should be thankful you enjoy the benefits of living in a stable and prosperous Western country with Judeo Christian foundations. Maybe you should head off and live in Afghanistan then.
    The fact remains. Its not just Afghanis falling over them selves to live in the West. But Muslims from all over the world. Obviously they see their Muslim majority countries for the failed states they are.
    Take your time machine back to Medieval times. Good luck. None of the benefits that modern Western civilisation has brought you. No anti biotics. No anti septic. Have fun living in a mud hut with a candle to light your way to the toilet pit.
    Oh yes, the old “World Trade attacks carried out by Zionists”. As I said above. Rabid, paranoid, conspiracy theories.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Spiritlead View Post
    Zionists, totalitarian Zionist World order, globalist Liberal Tyranny. All typical slogans of rabid paranoid conspiracy theorists.
    Defending LGBQ+?? What makes you think I am?
    I notice you live in the Antipodes. Where ? Australia or New Zealand. If so you should be thankful you enjoy the benefits of living in a stable and prosperous Western country with Judeo Christian foundations. Maybe you should head off and live in Afghanistan then.
    The fact remains. Its not just Afghanis falling over them selves to live in the West. But Muslims from all over the world. Obviously they see their Muslim majority countries for the failed states they are.
    Take your time machine back to Medieval times. Good luck. None of the benefits that modern Western civilisation has brought you. No anti biotics. No anti septic. Have fun living in a mud hut with a candle to light your way to the toilet pit.
    Oh yes, the old “World Trade attacks carried out by Zionists”. As I said above. Rabid, paranoid, conspiracy theories.
    The way in which you wrote certainly implies that you are defending "LGBTQ+" but maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions on that? That you choose to use the expression Judeo-Christian rather than just "Christian" is suspect. Not accusing you of being Jewish but certainly many white Christians are well aware that Jews like to employ the expression " Judeo -Christian". And no, I don't want to head off to Afghanistan, not because I dislike their culture. In fact, I ADMIRE their culture, but I am not racially Afghan and that country does not belong to me. I am still a foreigner and actually have no proper right to live there, especially permanently.

    Most of the Western "foundations" you speak of have actually been DISMANTLED and REPLACED with Jewish foundations/values, and some more honest Jews have even admitted they have been the primary architects of this massive cultural change. They do after all dominate and control Western government, media, academia, economics, and pretty much everything (hence why our Western nations are commonly referred to by White Nationalists and other intelligent people as "ZOG". They achieved full conquest after they destroyed the Nazis.

    You are correct that the "Muslims" clambering to get into the West are not confined to Afghanistan, they come all across Asia and Africa. But I question if they are actual Muslims at all. It is explicitly stated in Islamic teachings NOT to go and live amongst the kuffar/non-believers! Yet they DO. These "Muslims", if they are not traitors, criminals and apostates fleeing their homelands are nothing more than INVADERS, their reason for being up against our borders being "Oh we are fleeing this or that 'tyrant', we are refugees blah blah." when in fact they are really just opportunistic economic migrants trying to take advantage, or worse, trying to invade by sheer numbers whilst pretending to be ultra-liberals and uttering fuzzy-furry ultra-liberal rhetoric that they know all the mind washed white woke leftie liberals and born-again pie-eyed "Christians" want to hear. It goes to show how NON-Muslim they really are if they would rather be in the company of the white liberal kuffar than to be in the company of their own kith and kin back at home! As for "Muslim failed states", it is this rogue element of "Muslims" who will view it that way, not the mainstream genuine Muslim populations. In fact, many if not most Muslims in Afghanistan realize that the Zionist invasion of Afghanistan has only eroded Muslim principles and traditional ways of life and imposed toxic agendas such as aggressive militant feminism and other forms of liberal tyranny, and so the true patriotic Afghans want to return their way of life back to pre-invasion times, and I'm 100% behind them on that.

    I don't care for modernity, I'm a self-reliant "primitivist" and believe that technology is the sure road to destruction. You speak of vaccines etc, but we have seen that vaccines are known to kill. You speak of cars, planes and trains but what have they done to our clean beautiful environment? just pollute it with toxic fumes and poisons. But you might say "Oh, but go nuclear then" but we all know about Fukishima and Chernobyl, don't we? And we have seen what "leisurely" toys such as internet, radio and television have inflicted upon the world -- for the most part these things have been a weapon to promulgate toxic liberal "values" upon the entire planet, turning the world into a collective of indoctrinated mindless zombies being lead to their enslavement.
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  21. #116
    Spiritlead's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    The way in which you wrote certainly implies that you are defending "LGBTQ+" but maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions on that? That you choose to use the expression Judeo-Christian rather than just "Christian" is suspect. Not accusing you of being Jewish but certainly many white Christians are well aware that Jews like to employ the expression " Judeo -Christian". And no, I don't want to head off to Afghanistan, not because I dislike their culture. In fact, I ADMIRE their culture, but I am not racially Afghan and that country does not belong to me. I am still a foreigner and actually have no proper right to live there, especially permanently.

    Most of the Western "foundations" you speak of have actually been DISMANTLED and REPLACED with Jewish foundations/values, and some more honest Jews have even admitted they have been the primary architects of this massive cultural change. They do after all dominate and control Western government, media, academia, economics, and pretty much everything (hence why our Western nations are commonly referred to by White Nationalists and other intelligent people as "ZOG". They achieved full conquest after they destroyed the Nazis.

    You are correct that the "Muslims" clambering to get into the West are not confined to Afghanistan, they come all across Asia and Africa. But I question if they are actual Muslims at all. It is explicitly stated in Islamic teachings NOT to go and live amongst the kuffar/non-believers! Yet they DO. These "Muslims", if they are not traitors, criminals and apostates fleeing their homelands are nothing more than INVADERS, their reason for being up against our borders being "Oh we are fleeing this or that 'tyrant', we are refugees blah blah." when in fact they are really just opportunistic economic migrants trying to take advantage, or worse, trying to invade by sheer numbers whilst pretending to be ultra-liberals and uttering fuzzy-furry ultra-liberal rhetoric that they know all the mind washed white woke leftie liberals and born-again pie-eyed "Christians" want to hear. It goes to show how NON-Muslim they really are if they would rather be in the company of the white liberal kuffar than to be in the company of their own kith and kin back at home! As for "Muslim failed states", it is this rogue element of "Muslims" who will view it that way, not the mainstream genuine Muslim populations. In fact, many if not most Muslims in Afghanistan realize that the Zionist invasion of Afghanistan has only eroded Muslim principles and traditional ways of life and imposed toxic agendas such as aggressive militant feminism and other forms of liberal tyranny, and so the true patriotic Afghans want to return their way of life back to pre-invasion times, and I'm 100% behind them on that.

    I don't care for modernity, I'm a self-reliant "primitivist" and believe that technology is the sure road to destruction. You speak of vaccines etc, but we have seen that vaccines are known to kill. You speak of cars, planes and trains but what have they done to our clean beautiful environment? just pollute it with toxic fumes and poisons. But you might say "Oh, but go nuclear then" but we all know about Fukishima and Chernobyl, don't we? And we have seen what "leisurely" toys such as internet, radio and television have inflicted upon the world -- for the most part these things have been a weapon to promulgate toxic liberal "values" upon the entire planet, turning the world into a collective of indoctrinated mindless zombies being lead to their enslavement.
    Yes you are jumping to a conclusion. I am not defending LGBQ etc and never will.
    The term Judeo Christian is a common term to explain the moral foundations to the Western world. The reason being is that Judaism is the foundation to Christianity. Why is the term suspect ? I presume due to your Zionist conspiracy theory ?
    You didn’t answer my question. Do you live in Australia or New Zealand ? And if so, as I said, you should be thankful you enjoy the benefits of living in a stable and prosperous non Muslim Western country ?

    Please provide proof that western foundations have been dismantled and replaced with Jewish values. Like I said Western moral foundations go back to the Bible that is of Jewish and Christian traditions and belief. No dismantling or replacing there because it has always been that way.
    Is seems strange to me that you as a Muslim would be agreeing with white nationalist conspiracy theorists. Only the “not real Muslims” clambering to get into the non Muslim West ?
    Again where do you as a Muslim live ? Do you live in Australia or New Zealand ? If so, you appear to be contradicting yourself.

    Questioning if these Muslims are actually Muslims at all, traitors, criminals and apostates? The way you present Islam is a religion that is divided and confused.

    I agree. Most of these Muslims wanting into the West are economic migrants simply intent on abusing the hospitality of Western countries.
    You mention the word “white” quite a lot. I presume you are not “white”? If so, you seem to have an inferiority complex.

    Muslim world and countries as failed states is obvious to all the non Muslim world. Poverty, lack of human rights, lack of modern learning and art. The Muslim world contributes nothing to the modern world. That’s why Muslims are clambering to get the West.

    The Taliban and Al Queda brought any erosion of Afghanistan upon themselves by their aggressive action on 911. Militarily the US defeated Al Queda and wiped out a whole generation of the Taliban. The US was not defeated militarily. It was only after they withdrew that the Taliban were able to reassert themselves. Afganis had the opportunity to benefit from modern civilisation but have chosen barbaric Muslim fundamentalism instead.

    A “self-reliant "primitivist”. Good luck tending the goats and living in a dark and smoky mud hut. No efficient toilet systems and sewers. People dying at 40 was seen to be an old age. Many or most of the children died in the first few years, as did many of the women giving birth. Eating nothing but peas or dates day in and day out. None of the comforts of the Westen society that you enjoy. I agree that not everything modern civilisation has done has been good. However I believe if you were to take a vote of everyone in the world, most people would not want to go back to primitive medieval times.
    Vaccines do not kill. Vaccines save lives from disease. Look at how Polio, diphtheria, small pox and typhoid have all been eliminated.
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  22. #117
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Spiritlead View Post
    Yes you are jumping to a conclusion. I am not defending LGBQ etc and never will.
    The term Judeo Christian is a common term to explain the moral foundations to the Western world. The reason being is that Judaism is the foundation to Christianity. Why is the term suspect ? I presume due to your Zionist conspiracy theory ?
    You didn’t answer my question. Do you live in Australia or New Zealand ? And if so, as I said, you should be thankful you enjoy the benefits of living in a stable and prosperous non Muslim Western country ?

    Please provide proof that western foundations have been dismantled and replaced with Jewish values. Like I said Western moral foundations go back to the Bible that is of Jewish and Christian traditions and belief. No dismantling or replacing there because it has always been that way.
    Is seems strange to me that you as a Muslim would be agreeing with white nationalist conspiracy theorists. Only the “not real Muslims” clambering to get into the non Muslim West ?
    Again where do you as a Muslim live ? Do you live in Australia or New Zealand ? If so, you appear to be contradicting yourself.

    Questioning if these Muslims are actually Muslims at all, traitors, criminals and apostates? The way you present Islam is a religion that is divided and confused.

    I agree. Most of these Muslims wanting into the West are economic migrants simply intent on abusing the hospitality of Western countries.
    You mention the word “white” quite a lot. I presume you are not “white”? If so, you seem to have an inferiority complex.

    Muslim world and countries as failed states is obvious to all the non Muslim world. Poverty, lack of human rights, lack of modern learning and art. The Muslim world contributes nothing to the modern world. That’s why Muslims are clambering to get the West.

    The Taliban and Al Queda brought any erosion of Afghanistan upon themselves by their aggressive action on 911. Militarily the US defeated Al Queda and wiped out a whole generation of the Taliban. The US was not defeated militarily. It was only after they withdrew that the Taliban were able to reassert themselves. Afganis had the opportunity to benefit from modern civilisation but have chosen barbaric Muslim fundamentalism instead.

    A “self-reliant "primitivist”. Good luck tending the goats and living in a dark and smoky mud hut. No efficient toilet systems and sewers. People dying at 40 was seen to be an old age. Many or most of the children died in the first few years, as did many of the women giving birth. Eating nothing but peas or dates day in and day out. None of the comforts of the Westen society that you enjoy. I agree that not everything modern civilisation has done has been good. However I believe if you were to take a vote of everyone in the world, most people would not want to go back to primitive medieval times.
    Vaccines do not kill. Vaccines save lives from disease. Look at how Polio, diphtheria, small pox and typhoid have all been eliminated.
    I took it to be you were supporting "LGBTQ+" because of the context by which you framed it: "The West a “LGBTQQIP2SAA freak show “? Really ? You mean (the West) is the most prosperous and advanced civilisation in world history."
    You are basically confessing that the "most prosperous and advance civilization in world history" is supporting "LGBTQ+" (which , yes, it IS). If LGBTQ+ is deviant and degenerate (which it is) then WHY would the "most prosperous and advance civilization in world history" SUPPORT IT, so much so that it wants to even shove it down non Western countries' throats too?

    MANY people including Christians have pointed out that the employment of the term "Judeo-Christian" is one that is relatively recent, and that JEWS and traitorous Zionist-Christians more than anyone else like to employ it. However, so many genuine Christians loathe that expression and (understandably) see no reason why "Christian" isn't completely adequate enough in and of itself to describe the dominant Western culture that lasted around two millennia but is now in rapid decline and being replaced with the degenerate plague of liberalism and atheism. The old Christian moral foundations are simply being replaced with atheistic leftist ideologies and principles. An entirely new mindset has been created. You could argue that the modern Western world is "Judeo-Marxist", but it can hardly be even described as predominantly "Christian" anymore, let alone "Judeo-Christian". It never was "Judeo-Christian" and it probably never will either, given the massive decline in religion in general. You argue that Judaism is the foundation religion of Christianity, and you are correct, but by the same token Judaism is also the foundation religion of Islam. All these three monotheistic religions are known as the "Abrahamic" faiths. However, if you still insist on employing the expression "Judeo-Christian" then you might as well also say "Judeo-Islamic", as Judaism is also the base religion that Islam stems from. Many religions stem from others. Even Sikhism has borrowed many principles and tenets from Islam, and I read somewhere there are even pages from the Quran inside the Golden Temple.

    You keep asking my nationality, however I regard the matter irrelevant to the discussion. It really makes no difference whether I'm from Australia or New Zealand. I loathe the modern status quo culture of both these countries simply because I despise liberalism and its incessant zealous pushing of feminism (aka misandry), anti-patriarchy, it's violation of paternal sovereignty, it's interfering and trespassing of the domestic household, and it's equally fanatical pushing of things such as miscegenation and LGBTQ+ in the MSM. I despise practically ALL of the leftist dominated new-found values, attitudes, moral precepts, ideological and political mindsets etc. This new toxic culture has become particularly noticeable post-WWII, and chronically so since the beginning of this century, but if we critically look even more deeper it's easy enough to see that the rot was already starting to set in as far back as the French Revolution when Jews conspired to destroy France with future plans of exacting regicide across the rest of Europe. Little more than a century later they destroyed Russia with the Bolshevik Revolution, then the final death knell for the European peoples was with the annihilation of Germany. After the fall of Hitler, the aftermath all opened the way for the Jews of the World to come in for the final kill and to complete their conquest of the West. The OberJuden have occupied and enslaved all of Europe ever since 1945.

    You ask, why (if I loathe modern Western "civilization" so much) don't I choose to move to Muslim country. Well, those countries simply do not belong to me. They instead belong to the respective indigenous races which inhabit those lands. I belong in a Western country because I am racially Germanic. Too bad for me if I loathe the modern culture that has been foisted upon me. But it's just something I know I need to deal with and accept that I have to live with it.

    Ok, I am safe enough to live in the West in general. But you imply that it is dangerous to live in many Muslim countries. That is correct, but the main reason for that is because of the many Zionist invasions of those lands. In the past, hard as it might be for you to believe, most Muslim countries were generally very safe and stable. But obviously war torn countries are never safe.

    The new atheistic Cultural-Marxism that predominates in most Western countries HAVE displaced old Christian values and I shouldn't have to prove that to you. It is so plain to see it everywhere around us and I am FAR from the first white person to point this out. Many Christians themselves have pointed it out. It is obvious as day that the culture now is PROFOUNDLY different to the culture we had 200 years ago. The people of those times would be turning in their graves if they saw what the West has become now, and if any of them were still hypothetically alive today they would almost surely have desperately gathered their armies to destroy the monstrous scourge that has come to dominate our epoch. But if you need to be spoon fed, as a starting point, the United Nations and the EU are probably two of the most significant and obvious drivers behind this new tyrannical demonic New World Order. The UN and EU are conspiring entities of the antichrist. It would be accurate enough to say that not only have Christian values been replaced (or at best severely eroded), but even orthodox Jewish values are not really present in the West either. The "Jewish" values that predominate in the modern West are more specifically a globalist totalitarian Cultural-Marxist satanic cult.

    I don't see myself as contradictory for being in support of not only "white nationalism" but also the nationalism of ANY race. It is only logical that Muslims should feel the same. I am not just a White Nationalist, I also support the nationalism of ANY race and their right to be in charge of their indigenous lands. Even in the Quran is stated that Allah divided humanity into races and nations. We were intended to preserve our various rich diversities. We were not meant to live in globalist "melting pots" to contaminate our bloodlines and destroy our races with miscegenation, and to therefore subsequently become devoid of all our identity and roots and become nationless zombified obedient clones walking the planet until doomsday. The races were intended by God to live separately, not necessarily to avoid all contact with each other but to nonetheless preserve our races and our nations and our great and fascinating diversity. So these are principles not just encountered in ethhno-nationalist ideology, they are also something found in most religions too.

    That it is my strong belief many of the "Muslims" clambering to get to the West are not really actual Muslims at all but are instead cowards, betrayers, traitors, criminals and apostates doesn't mean that the Muslim world is "confused". Yes, you could say it is and always has had a certain amount of division, as in its religious sectarianism, but no more divided than Christian Europe was with the sectarianism between Catholics, Protestants and Russian/Greek Orthodox. The main divisions seen across the Muslim world today is more between genuine Muslims and atheists, blasphemers, heretics, apostates, Marxists, liberals and traitors, (many of whom are also on Zionist/Marxist/enemy payrolls), rather than division between the various Muslims sects.

    "Human rights" as with expressions such as "international community" "global citizen" "democracy" etc are platitudes -so commonly employed by atheists and liberals. No matter what the UN globalist pinkos might want to think, there is simply no such thing as inherent "human rights" anyway.

    If you dislike Islam so much then I kind of find it puzzling that you'd choose be part of an Islamic forum. It's kind of the same way that Jewish and Marxist trolls like to keep posting endless posts ridiculing the whole very purpose of Stormfront and Nordiciist sites, which is primarily about preserving ethno-states and racial hygiene. It's not like anyone is FORCING these trolls to embrace nationalistic and racialist principles! They instead come of their OWN volition only to cause nothing but trolling and disruption. It confounds me how they get a cheap thrill out of doing it. I hate leftists, globalists, feminists, etc, yet the LAST thing I have any interest in wasting my time doing is joining up at forums whose sole purpose to exist is actually to espouse the things they most definitely passionately believe in! LOL. Leftists, globalists, feminists etc are usually zealously committed to their beliefs and even hard-wired to thinking the way they do, so it's hardly likely that I would be able to just go there and magically "convert" them all to my way of thinking, right? See what I'm saying?

    You don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job, well that's your right to draw that conclusion. Did you see how the twin towers went down though? It looked like a very well controlled explosives demolition. Normally a building, especially of that size would probably not collapse at all, and if it did would be more likely to teeter over, NOT pancake to the ground. That is only what you would see in a controlled demolition.. Furthermore, it was discovered that a group of Israelis were seen from a very far distance having a good laugh while watching it going on, almost as if they were celebrating it. In any case, no matter what you want to believe, there is no doubt that there was something VERY off with that historical event and the "official" version of what actually happened. I'm not entirely sure precisely what connection Al Queda had with the whole thing, but there is absolutely no evidence at all that the Taliban had anything to do with it!

    It is not just Muslims who dislike "modern Western civilization", many NON Muslims despise it too. As for lifespans, in spite of many modernists arguing that "people died so young in olden times" I was nonetheless surprised to find that when I visited a number of 19th century cemeteries just how many people got to very ripe old ages! Yes I saw some graves of babies and very young children, but it at the same time struck me the large number of tombstones that showed that many of the deceased had reached their 80s, 90s and even quite a few centenarians! Modernity might have brought with it a few medical advantages, but at the same time the many poisons and toxins in the environment that get into our lungs, our food and water is significantly OFFSETTING those medical advances. It is no wonder at all why so many today are dying younger and younger of cancers and other new diseases. Vaccines have eliminated many diseases, yes, and in the past I would have trusted them, and I have taken them. But not anymore. The last time I took vaccines was for hepatitis and a few other jabs when I went travelling abroad. But I would never take any vaccines ever again, especially since I've come to realize who actually is in control of our Western governments and the diabolically malevolent force they truly are.
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  23. #118
    Spiritlead's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I took it to be you were supporting "LGBTQ+" because of the context by which you framed it: "The West a “LGBTQQIP2SAA freak show “? Really ? You mean (the West) is the most prosperous and advanced civilisation in world history."
    You are basically confessing that the "most prosperous and advance civilization in world history" is supporting "LGBTQ+" (which , yes, it IS). If LGBTQ+ is deviant and degenerate (which it is) then WHY would the "most prosperous and advance civilization in world history" SUPPORT IT, so much so that it wants to even shove it down non Western countries' throats too?

    MANY people including Christians have pointed out that the employment of the term "Judeo-Christian" is one that is relatively recent, and that JEWS and traitorous Zionist-Christians more than anyone else like to employ it. However, so many genuine Christians loathe that expression and (understandably) see no reason why "Christian" isn't completely adequate enough in and of itself to describe the dominant Western culture that lasted around two millennia but is now in rapid decline and being replaced with the degenerate plague of liberalism and atheism. The old Christian moral foundations are simply being replaced with atheistic leftist ideologies and principles. An entirely new mindset has been created. You could argue that the modern Western world is "Judeo-Marxist", but it can hardly be even described as predominantly "Christian" anymore, let alone "Judeo-Christian". It never was "Judeo-Christian" and it probably never will either, given the massive decline in religion in general. You argue that Judaism is the foundation religion of Christianity, and you are correct, but by the same token Judaism is also the foundation religion of Islam. All these three monotheistic religions are known as the "Abrahamic" faiths. However, if you still insist on employing the expression "Judeo-Christian" then you might as well also say "Judeo-Islamic", as Judaism is also the base religion that Islam stems from. Many religions stem from others. Even Sikhism has borrowed many principles and tenets from Islam, and I read somewhere there are even pages from the Quran inside the Golden Temple.

    You keep asking my nationality, however I regard the matter irrelevant to the discussion. It really makes no difference whether I'm from Australia or New Zealand. I loathe the modern status quo culture of both these countries simply because I despise liberalism and its incessant zealous pushing of feminism (aka misandry), anti-patriarchy, it's violation of paternal sovereignty, it's interfering and trespassing of the domestic household, and it's equally fanatical pushing of things such as miscegenation and LGBTQ+ in the MSM. I despise practically ALL of the leftist dominated new-found values, attitudes, moral precepts, ideological and political mindsets etc. This new toxic culture has become particularly noticeable post-WWII, and chronically so since the beginning of this century, but if we critically look even more deeper it's easy enough to see that the rot was already starting to set in as far back as the French Revolution when Jews conspired to destroy France with future plans of exacting regicide across the rest of Europe. Little more than a century later they destroyed Russia with the Bolshevik Revolution, then the final death knell for the European peoples was with the annihilation of Germany. After the fall of Hitler, the aftermath all opened the way for the Jews of the World to come in for the final kill and to complete their conquest of the West. The OberJuden have occupied and enslaved all of Europe ever since 1945.

    You ask, why (if I loathe modern Western "civilization" so much) don't I choose to move to Muslim country. Well, those countries simply do not belong to me. They instead belong to the respective indigenous races which inhabit those lands. I belong in a Western country because I am racially Germanic. Too bad for me if I loathe the modern culture that has been foisted upon me. But it's just something I know I need to deal with and accept that I have to live with it.

    Ok, I am safe enough to live in the West in general. But you imply that it is dangerous to live in many Muslim countries. That is correct, but the main reason for that is because of the many Zionist invasions of those lands. In the past, hard as it might be for you to believe, most Muslim countries were generally very safe and stable. But obviously war torn countries are never safe.

    The new atheistic Cultural-Marxism that predominates in most Western countries HAVE displaced old Christian values and I shouldn't have to prove that to you. It is so plain to see it everywhere around us and I am FAR from the first white person to point this out. Many Christians themselves have pointed it out. It is obvious as day that the culture now is PROFOUNDLY different to the culture we had 200 years ago. The people of those times would be turning in their graves if they saw what the West has become now, and if any of them were still hypothetically alive today they would almost surely have desperately gathered their armies to destroy the monstrous scourge that has come to dominate our epoch. But if you need to be spoon fed, as a starting point, the United Nations and the EU are probably two of the most significant and obvious drivers behind this new tyrannical demonic New World Order. The UN and EU are conspiring entities of the antichrist. It would be accurate enough to say that not only have Christian values been replaced (or at best severely eroded), but even orthodox Jewish values are not really present in the West either. The "Jewish" values that predominate in the modern West are more specifically a globalist totalitarian Cultural-Marxist satanic cult.

    I don't see myself as contradictory for being in support of not only "white nationalism" but also the nationalism of ANY race. It is only logical that Muslims should feel the same. I am not just a White Nationalist, I also support the nationalism of ANY race and their right to be in charge of their indigenous lands. Even in the Quran is stated that Allah divided humanity into races and nations. We were intended to preserve our various rich diversities. We were not meant to live in globalist "melting pots" to contaminate our bloodlines and destroy our races with miscegenation, and to therefore subsequently become devoid of all our identity and roots and become nationless zombified obedient clones walking the planet until doomsday. The races were intended by God to live separately, not necessarily to avoid all contact with each other but to nonetheless preserve our races and our nations and our great and fascinating diversity. So these are principles not just encountered in ethhno-nationalist ideology, they are also something found in most religions too.

    That it is my strong belief many of the "Muslims" clambering to get to the West are not really actual Muslims at all but are instead cowards, betrayers, traitors, criminals and apostates doesn't mean that the Muslim world is "confused". Yes, you could say it is and always has had a certain amount of division, as in its religious sectarianism, but no more divided than Christian Europe was with the sectarianism between Catholics, Protestants and Russian/Greek Orthodox. The main divisions seen across the Muslim world today is more between genuine Muslims and atheists, blasphemers, heretics, apostates, Marxists, liberals and traitors, (many of whom are also on Zionist/Marxist/enemy payrolls), rather than division between the various Muslims sects.

    "Human rights" as with expressions such as "international community" "global citizen" "democracy" etc are platitudes -so commonly employed by atheists and liberals. No matter what the UN globalist pinkos might want to think, there is simply no such thing as inherent "human rights" anyway.

    If you dislike Islam so much then I kind of find it puzzling that you'd choose be part of an Islamic forum. It's kind of the same way that Jewish and Marxist trolls like to keep posting endless posts ridiculing the whole very purpose of Stormfront and Nordiciist sites, which is primarily about preserving ethno-states and racial hygiene. It's not like anyone is FORCING these trolls to embrace nationalistic and racialist principles! They instead come of their OWN volition only to cause nothing but trolling and disruption. It confounds me how they get a cheap thrill out of doing it. I hate leftists, globalists, feminists, etc, yet the LAST thing I have any interest in wasting my time doing is joining up at forums whose sole purpose to exist is actually to espouse the things they most definitely passionately believe in! LOL. Leftists, globalists, feminists etc are usually zealously committed to their beliefs and even hard-wired to thinking the way they do, so it's hardly likely that I would be able to just go there and magically "convert" them all to my way of thinking, right? See what I'm saying?

    You don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job, well that's your right to draw that conclusion. Did you see how the twin towers went down though? It looked like a very well controlled explosives demolition. Normally a building, especially of that size would probably not collapse at all, and if it did would be more likely to teeter over, NOT pancake to the ground. That is only what you would see in a controlled demolition.. Furthermore, it was discovered that a group of Israelis were seen from a very far distance having a good laugh while watching it going on, almost as if they were celebrating it. In any case, no matter what you want to believe, there is no doubt that there was something VERY off with that historical event and the "official" version of what actually happened. I'm not entirely sure precisely what connection Al Queda had with the whole thing, but there is absolutely no evidence at all that the Taliban had anything to do with it!

    It is not just Muslims who dislike "modern Western civilization", many NON Muslims despise it too. As for lifespans, in spite of many modernists arguing that "people died so young in olden times" I was nonetheless surprised to find that when I visited a number of 19th century cemeteries just how many people got to very ripe old ages! Yes I saw some graves of babies and very young children, but it at the same time struck me the large number of tombstones that showed that many of the deceased had reached their 80s, 90s and even quite a few centenarians! Modernity might have brought with it a few medical advantages, but at the same time the many poisons and toxins in the environment that get into our lungs, our food and water is significantly OFFSETTING those medical advances. It is no wonder at all why so many today are dying younger and younger of cancers and other new diseases. Vaccines have eliminated many diseases, yes, and in the past I would have trusted them, and I have taken them. But not anymore. The last time I took vaccines was for hepatitis and a few other jabs when I went travelling abroad. But I would never take any vaccines ever again, especially since I've come to realize who actually is in control of our Western governments and the diabolically malevolent force they truly are.
    Thanks Karl. Interesting discussion but it appears there is much we will need to agree to disagree on. All the best and Gods Blessings Upon You.
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    Spiritlead's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    Thanks Karl. Interesting discussion but it appears there is much we will need to agree to disagree on. All the best and Gods Blessings Upon You.
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    Re: '150,000 Americans couldn’t beat us': Taliban fighters defiant in Afghanistan

    format_quote Originally Posted by Spiritlead View Post
    Thanks Karl. Interesting discussion but it appears there is much we will need to agree to disagree on. All the best and Gods Blessings Upon You.
    Ok, no probs, and thanks for a civil debate. Yes, I agree, it appears there are simply things that we agree on but also things we disagree on. Gods Blessing upon you too.
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