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  1. #1
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    Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques (OP)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eUmis7uko0

    - @eesathekiwi are you safe?

    - About 40 died

    - Perpetrator White Australian

    - Apparantly he was livestreaming the whole thing while playing "Remove Kebab" song at background

  2. #161
    CuriousonTruth's Avatar
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silas View Post
    A threat? Seems like Muslims have a lot more to fear from their fellow Muslims as from Europeans

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/islamis...w-report-says/

    And if Muslims hate westerners as you say, why are many settling in western lands? The Muslims in my community enjoy a far higher standard of living than those living in Turkey. They also enjoy greater freedoms.
    You are assuming quite a lot. Obviously I was talking about religious muslims who are well read into history and can understand the motives of Europeans. Ofcourse that is not how muslims are raised, they are raised to be subservient to western people and their culture, I was too raised like that but i broke that off.

    And if you didn't get by now, most muslims who go to the West have a completely westernized world view themselves rather than an islamic one and practice religion very nominally. And you live in the USA, with the 2nd most liberal muslims in the world (1st being canada), so why would you expect those people to have an older, conservative world view.

    American muslims are even more liberal than the average American. They don't represent Islam. If you want Islam look up history,

    Rashidun Caliphate = Islam
    Abbsaid Caliphate = Islam
    Ottoman Sultanate =Islam

    21st century westernized muslims =/= Islam

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  4. #162
    Silas's Avatar
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    You are assuming quite a lot. Obviously I was talking about religious muslims who are well read into history and can understand the motives of Europeans. Ofcourse that is not how muslims are raised, they are raised to be subservient to western people and their culture, I was too raised like that but i broke that off.

    And if you didn't get by now, most muslims who go to the West have a completely westernized world view themselves rather than an islamic one and practice religion very nominally. And you live in the USA, with the 2nd most liberal muslims in the world (1st being canada), so why would you expect those people to have an older, conservative world view.

    American muslims are even more liberal than the average American. They don't represent Islam. If you want Islam look up history,

    Rashidun Caliphate = Islam
    Abbsaid Caliphate = Islam
    Ottoman Sultanate =Islam

    21st century westernized muslims =/= Islam
    I don't have any problem with Muslims setting up some kind of Caliphate (provided it isn't something crazy, like ISIL), or having their own countries and laws.

    But the Ottoman Empire, Abbasid Caliphate, etc. are not coming back any time soon. We can't turn back the clock to the middle-ages, or even the 19th century.

  5. #163
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post

    Rashidun Caliphate = Islam
    Abbsaid Caliphate = Islam
    Ottoman Sultanate = Islam
    Thats a wrong assumption bro. None other than the Prophet can be defined as equal to Islam. These states had their mistakes.
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    Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi

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    CuriousonTruth's Avatar
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Thats a wrong assumption bro. None other than the Prophet can be defined as equal to Islam. These states had their mistakes.
    I obviously meant they represent real islam, not our generation. Also Rashidun Caliphate is accepted as the ideal state islamically, what mistake did they made? i guess Umar(Ra) made mistake by trusting the Persians which would be the reason that he was killed.

    But this was Qadr, it was prophesised the rightly guided caliphate will be for 30 years, which is exactly what happened, so technically all the errors made by the four caliphs are not really their fault.

    They were ruled by humans so obviously all of the empires had their dark sides. For example, the Mutazilite era under Abbasids and Tanzimat of the Ottomans.

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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousonTruth View Post
    You are assuming quite a lot. Obviously I was talking about religious muslims who are well read into history and can understand the motives of Europeans. Ofcourse that is not how muslims are raised, they are raised to be subservient to western people and their culture, I was too raised like that but i broke that off.

    And if you didn't get by now, most muslims who go to the West have a completely westernized world view themselves rather than an islamic one and practice religion very nominally. And you live in the USA, with the 2nd most liberal muslims in the world (1st being canada), so why would you expect those people to have an older, conservative world view.

    American muslims are even more liberal than the average American. They don't represent Islam. If you want Islam look up history,

    Rashidun Caliphate = Islam
    Abbsaid Caliphate = Islam
    Ottoman Sultanate =Islam

    21st century westernized muslims =/= Islam
    you know you talk alot about the crimes committed by the whites but you fail to recognize the crimes committed by the muslims including genocide, misuse of slavery (similar to trans atlantic slave trade), pillaging, ethnic cleansing, mass murder, false flags, oppression, etc. just look up history. youll see christians and muslims are neck and neck.
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by SintoDinto View Post
    you know you talk alot about the crimes committed by the whites but you fail to recognize the crimes committed by the muslims including genocide, misuse of slavery (similar to trans atlantic slave trade), pillaging, ethnic cleansing, mass murder, false flags, oppression, etc. just look up history. youll see christians and muslims are neck and neck.
    LOL funny character.

  11. #168
    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    @SintoDinto Know what a white Muslim is?

    Guess what?
    Some Muslims disguise themselves as
    Mexicans, Africans, Russians, even Chinese and Japanese, they carry out this cunning ploy by being born into the various races.
    Come to think of it, i'm getting cozy with the hunch that Islam is a global thing and all that race baiting is simply a satanic ploy by some evil people attempting to create confusion amongst the ignorant scum so that such scum develop a sense of bigoted loyalty to their own abusers and can then be utilized as pawns in their own ignominious enslavement as the usury game falls apart and attempts to evolve.

    Last edited by Abz2000; 04-02-2019 at 06:53 PM.
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Interesting points

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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    @SintoDinto Know what a white Muslim is?

    Guess what?
    Some Muslims disguise themselves as
    Mexicans, Africans, Russians, even Chinese and Japanese, they carry out this cunning ploy by being born into the various races.
    Come to think of it, i'm getting cozy with the hunch that Islam is a global thing and all that race baiting is simply a satanic ploy by some evil people attempting to create confusion amongst the ignorant scum so that such scum develop a sense of bigoted loyalty to their own abusers and can then be utilized as pawns in their own ignominious enslavement as the usury game falls apart and attempts to evolve.

    interesting. i should have said non muslim whites. i guess turks and albanians count as whites, dont they? but as some black writers have said, what makes a man white but the people in power themselves? at one point greeks didnt count as whites.

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    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    @
    fschmidtI read some of your posts on this topic and I agree the reaction of many Muslims was not appropriate. As Muslims we know that nothing happens without the will of Allah. Instead of blaming others, we should look at ourselves to see what we need to do to engage with those who have misconceptions about Islam.

    Islam is a religion for entire humanity. Muslims in the West need to involve in a peaceful dialogue with all non-Muslims on all levels to remove the misunderstandings. Muslims should be going to churches, synagogues, temples etc. to convey the message of Islam and invite non-Muslims to their mosques for inter-faith dialogues. Instead of blaming whites or Westerns for their hate towards Islam, Muslims need to look at themselves and see if they are doing enough to promote Islam and its peaceful message.

    Reality is that we are far from the teachings of Islam. Prophet Muhammad PBUH's mission of 23 years was to spread the message of Islam to all non-believers. How did he accomplished that? Through true love and concern for others even when they tried to kill him.

    After his death, companions of Prophet Muhammad PBUH took over this role. We find graves of companions of prophet Muhammad PBUH even in China. Why they left Arabia? Because they had the duty to convey the message of Islam to those who never heard about it.

    What are we doing as Muslims? We can't even have patience to read positive criticism by this brother? I mean look at all the replies to this post and most of those are an attempt to prove that all white nationalists are terrorists. Is this really true? What would have Prophet Muhammad PBUH said or done if he was living today?

    Islam spread due to sincere concern and love for others even when they hate us. Islam spread due to the moral character of our beloved Prophet PBUH and his companions (May Allah be pleased with them all). We need to win the trust of those who hate Islam through our moral character by exercising patience and showing love and concern for them. That's what Quran teaches and that's what our beloved Prophet Muhammad PBUH did.
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    fschmidtI read some of your posts on this topic and I agree the reaction of many Muslims was not appropriate. As Muslims we know that nothing happens without the will of Allah. Instead of blaming others, we should look at ourselves to see what we need to do to engage with those who have misconceptions about Islam.
    Thank you. This video that I made may interest you:


  17. #173
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Thank you. This video that I made may interest you:
    I heard the whole video, this is a normal dialogue which I would expect from any Muslim. I will list the main points of the debate in this video if I recall them and provide my input as well.

    1. Fear of replacement by white nationalists. They fear that people coming from ME (Muslims and Jews) will eventually replace them, their culture and take up any job opportunities which were there for white people alone.

    • I understand their fear but is it realistic? Is there any country in the world which has only black or white or brown people from the beginning of human life on this planet? In every country, we will find people which are from different cultures and have different ethnicity. All we need is to be tolerant to each other, talk to each other so that we know the similarities between us. Our similarities are far more than the differences. We can take good things from our cultures and create a better society.
    • I also want to mention that Muslims are most tolerant and one should not fear from Muslims and their culture. Muslims not only let people of all races, cultures and belief system live in Islamic states in the past but they also let them practice what they believe. Let’s look into history:
    • Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had forced their religion on any one, there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
    • The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was a religion of tolerance and peace.
    • Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never forced the people to convert. They never forced anyone to change their cultural believes. That’s the reason we have many Christians in the West. Ironically, it were the Christian Crusaders who came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan (the call for prayers).


    2. Muslims do not allow non-Muslims to come and settle in their own lands to preserve their culture. For example, they discussed why Saudi Arabia does not allow permanent citizenship to Pakistani and Indians or to people from other cultures.
    • Saudi Arabia does not allow permanent citizenship to Pakistan and Indians but if you get a chance to go to Saudi Arabia, you will see that there are many people from Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and other countries who have been working in Saudi Arabia for years. They don’t get permanent citizenship because of Govt. policies which has nothing to do with the religion of Islam.
    • There are lot of Europeans who are going to Saudi Arabia and Saudi’s have no problem with them coming to SA and live there.


    Final point I want to make is that Muslims don’t hate any race or people. We may disagree on moral laws or we may hate certain sins but Muslims don’t hate other human beings. In the sight of Allah all human beings are equal and created from single source. The Quran has denounced any sort of superiority - whether it be of race, language or skin color. In the heart of a Muslim, there is no room for arrogance and racism. Allah tells us that the diversity of life, and the various languages and colors of human beings, is a sign of Allah’s majesty, and a lesson for us to learn about humility, equality, and the appreciation of differences. I will like to end my post with some quotes from Quran:

    Do you not see that Allah sends down rain from the sky? With it We then bring out produce of various colors. And in the mountains are tracts white and red, of various shades of color, and black intense in hue. And so amongst men, and crawling creatures, and cattle – they are of various colors. Those truly fear Allah, among His Servants, who have knowledge. For Allah is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving (Quran 35:27-28)
    The verse above is beautifully describes the diversity of life not just things around us but also within human race as further illustrated in the verse below:

    And among His wonders is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the diversity of your tongues and colors. For in this, behold, there are messages indeed for all who are possessed of innate knowledge! (Quran 30:22).
    Oh men! Behold, We have created you all out of a male and a female, and have made you into nations and tribes, so that you might come to know one another. Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware (Quran 49:13).
    We can talk about different rules and regulations made by human beings to address the issue of race but these rules and regulation do nothing to stop the hate which people of color have for each other. The only thing which binds us together is the Divine revelation. That why you will see among Muslims there are people of all colors, all cultures who speak different languages and have different cultural believes but still they love each other because they are Muslims. It is the love which Allah puts in our hearts and no human law can do that. Best example of this is seen during pilgrimage to Mecca.

    Look at the video below about Malcolm X's experience when he performed Hajj (pilgrimage), it explains the issue of race and its solution in less than 5 minutes.

    https://youtu.be/pCQ6sAso5ds

    May Allah guide us all to Islam and help us all to follow the teaching of Islam in it true spirit. Ameen!

  18. #174
    Ahmed.'s Avatar
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Where did you get this opinion? Well really, I don't need to ask because I know. You were brainwashed by propaganda. You probably never had a serious conversation with a white nationalist in your life.


    Jews? Now you are the racist. It isn't Jews, it is Judaism. Do you know why I hate Judaism? I hate Judaism because Judaism caused the Holocaust in which most of my family died. To be fair, I assign about 90% of the blame to Judaism and about 10% of the blame to the Nazis.

    Judaism hates free speech because it is based on telling lies to the stupid goyim, people like you who will do what they want. Free speech risks exposing their lies. Judaism thrives on corruption, on buying off politicians and using the banking system to screw the people. This works for while until the system goes bankrupt and then the people revolt. This is how the Nazis came to power. And this could well happen again. The Talmudic strategy is the cause of Nazism. Of course it is in the interest of Judaism to have white nationalists and Muslims fight each other. You are doing exactly what they want. If Muslims don't wake up, the next far-right movement in Europe may well slaughter both Jews and Muslims. But if Muslims do wake up and cooperate with white nationalists, then Judaism can be peacefully expelled and then everyone else can live in peace.
    Hi @fschmidt

    I can vouch for Bhai that his opinion is correct, and you don't need to 'get it from anywhere' as its plain to see that 99.9%of white nationalists are belligerent evil racists.

    The sunnah is to fight belligerents, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) was ordered to fight them, so we no longer are restricted by the 'pacifist' period of Islam before the order to fight was given

    but ofcourse we have to abide by the law too, so rather than get our swords out, we need firm action against these animals and smash them like the anti-fascist groups do in their anti nazi marches. Being soft with these animals will only encourage them to attack us more.

    Ofcourse we need to give them dawah (invitation) to the good, humane and Islamic way too and we do do that over the Internet etc as I'm sure these nutters are lurking around the net.

    And saying Jews are behind anti hate speech law is not racist, its well known that they pull the strings of Western governments

    Now if I said Jews were evil bankers, you can say that's racist, but how can attributing something good to Jews (like banning hate speech) be racist?
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 11-01-2019 at 08:17 AM.

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  20. #175
    HabibUrrehman's Avatar
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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Hi Fschimdt

    I can vouch for Bhai that his opinion is correct, and you don't need to 'get it from anywhere' as its plain to see that 99.9%of white nationalists are belligerent evil racists.

    The sunnah is to fight belligerents, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) was ordered to fight them, so we no longer are restricted by the 'pacifist' period of Islam before the order to fight was given

    but ofcourse we have to abide by the law too, so rather than get our swords out, we need firm action against these animals and smash them like the anti-fascist groups do in their anti nazi marches. Being soft with these animals will only encourage them to attack us more.

    Ofcourse we need to give them dawah (invitation) to the good, humane and Islamic way too and we do do that over the Internet etc as I'm sure these nutters are lurking around the net.

    And saying Jews are behind anti hate speech law is not racist, its well known that they pull the strings of Western governments

    Now if I said Jews were evil bankers, you can say that's racist, but how can attributing something good to Jews (like banning hate speech) be racist?
    And what is your evidence for this from Sunnah and Quran? Allah sent Prophet Moses to convey the message of Islam to Pharaoh even though Pharaoh claim to be God. Prophet Muhammad PBUH lived with people who hated Islam but what did he do? He did not took out his sword, he did the opposite which is to preach the message of Islam with love.

    This type of negative thinking produce nothing but hate and drive people away from Islam. We don't focus on correcting ourselves instead blame everything on non-Muslims. That's one of the reason Muslims today are suffering all over the world and this situation will not change until we change ourselves and follow the true
    teachings of Quran and the teachings of our prophet PBUH. Engage in dialogue with non-Muslim with sincerity and love, not with hate.
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 10-30-2019 at 06:20 PM.

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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    And what is your evidence for this from Sunnah and Quran? Allah sent Prophet Moses to convey the message of Islam to Pharaoh even though Pharaoh claim to be God. Prophet Muhammad PBUH lived with people who hated Islam but what did he do? He did not took out his sword, he did the opposite which is to preach the message of Islam with love.

    This type of negative thinking produce nothing but hate and drive people away from Islam. We don't focus on correcting ourselves instead blame everything on non-Muslims. That's one of the reason Muslims today are suffering all over the world and this situation will not change until we change ourselves and follow the true
    teachings of Quran and the teachings of our prophet PBUH. Engage in dialogue with non-Muslim with sincerity and love, not with hate.
    Salamuakikum

    The evidence is, Allah revealed in Quran, after Prophet (saw) made hijrah to Medinah, 'fight them as they fight you...' (forgot the ref For this verse but its a famous one and just about all Muslims know it) ', so here is an order to fight the belligerents.

    Also Allah says in Quran 'strike fear into their hearts' (I. E into the belligerents' hearts), and from Islamic talks I've heard that in view of hostile enemies, a Muslim should walk in a tough manner (sort of like a fearless soldier, or with a bold strut like the modern day 'gangstas') so as to strike fear in enemy's heart so he doesn't feel encouraged to attack you, and near peaceful people a Muslim should walk softly and humbly.

    Let's not kid ourselves, them far right activists are hate mongering, inciting violence, abusing, baspheming our religion and attacking us (just look at EDL and Britain First party for example) and thats what the Makkan kuffar were doing to Muslims in Makkah, and as soon as Muslims were in a position to fight, Allah gave the order to fight.

    Yes dawah goes on, but you have to meet aggression with like for like...

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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Salamuakikum

    The evidence is, Allah revealed in Quran, after Prophet (saw) made hijrah to Medinah, 'fight them as they fight you...' (forgot the ref For this verse but its a famous one and just about all Muslims know it) ', so here is an order to fight the belligerents.

    Also Allah says in Quran 'strike fear into their hearts' (I. E into the belligerents' hearts), and from Islamic talks I've heard that in view of hostile enemies, a Muslim should walk in a tough manner (sort of like a fearless soldier, or with a bold strut like the modern day 'gangstas') so as to strike fear in enemy's heart so he doesn't feel encouraged to attack you, and near peaceful people a Muslim should walk softly and humbly.

    Let's not kid ourselves, them far right activists are hate mongering, inciting violence, abusing, baspheming our religion and attacking us (just look at EDL and Britain First party for example) and thats what the Makkan kuffar were doing to Muslims in Makkah, and as soon as Muslims were in a position to fight, Allah gave the order to fight.

    Yes dawah goes on, but you have to meet aggression with like for like...


    First of all I love you my brother in Islam and I want you and everyone of us to be a true ambassador of Islam. That needs hard work. That needs to have patience, tolerance and the best of moral character.

    Now going back to your post, you are making a very general statement by assuming that 99% of white nationalists are bad. This statement is false, you and I both know it. Non-Muslims have similar thoughts about Muslims and what do we say? Muslims are peaceful. ISIS and Al-Qaida are not Muslims and they don't represent what Muslims believe. But unfortunately what you are saying is nothing but ideology of ISIS and Al-Qaida. They take verses from Quran to legitimize their Jihad and you are trying to do the same. Please don't take it personally, we need to correct ourselves if we are wrong and there is nothing wrong in correcting our wrong understanding of Islam.

    If all Muslims are not terrorists, we can apply the same logic to any racial or religious group. There are many good Christians, Jews, whites, blacks etc. We need to listen to the concerns of the white nationalists and talk to them in a polite and logical way. Their concern is that their culture in under threat. Their concern is that they may not be able to practice what they believe. Their concern is that they may loose their cultural values. Are these valid concerns? Yes they are. We Muslims don't want to compromise our cultures. Some times, our cultures actually becomes more important than religion. It is a sad reality but it is true. There are threads on this forum discussing how China is wiping out Muslims in their country. It is a concern for us, right? White nationalists have similar concerns and these concerns are valid concerns.

    Human psychology is to listen to the problems of other people. Acknowledge that their concerns are valid and provide them a solution. That solution is not war against all non-Muslims. The solution is to show them good side of Islam which media never shows. It is duty of Muslims to treat non-Muslims nicely and upheld the Islamic moral values under all circumstances. See video below of a red neck typical white nationalist who saw good side of Islam and accepted Islam. This is how we spread Islam and change the world, not by promoting hate.

    https://youtu.be/rPpvGyn89ss

    I do want to mention one thing here. The main complain from Muslims is that media does not play a fair game. When a Muslims commits a crime, it is depicted as crime committed by all Muslims. Every Muslim feels ashamed for the crimes of one individual and people in the West expect us to apologize for something we did not even do. That is true mostly and I personally have experienced that. But not every non-Muslims trusts the media. I know that many good non-Muslims don't believe in media any more. Regardless, it is a fact that such negative news fuel anger and hate among some of the non-Muslims for Muslims.

    Muslims expect that media in the West should also show the crimes committed by white nationalists and compare those to crimes committed by Muslims. It will not be hard to see where the main problem lies, its not in Islam but in the hate about Muslims. If that's your issue as well then I am with you. But this also shows that our main issues is misinformation about Islam which promotes hate and only way to negate that is through love and peace. Hate only begets hate where as love begets love.

    Quran never promotes attacking people on just mere assumptions. Fight with non-Muslims is permitted only when
    non-Muslims attack you or oppress you or be a cause of corruption in the society. Show me a single verse in Quran where fight is allowed with non-Muslims on mere assumptions such as all white nationalists are bad. Did Prophet Muhammad PBUH engaged in wars against Jews? No, he did not. He was a true political leader. He worked out treaties to avoid wars. If someone breaks a treaty and rage a war against you then yes by all means you protect yourself and fight.

    What happened at the conquest of Mecca? Did Prophet Muhammad PBUH killed any one? Whole City was conquered without killing a single person. That's the history we need to read and be proud of.

    I also gave example above from golden age of Islam. Muslims lived peacefully in Spain for more than 800 years, they ruled sub-continued for over 1,000 years. I am sure people of other religions did not like Islam but they still lived together in peace and that's how Islam spread.

    If anyone is telling you to go and fight with white nationalist, he/she is only promoting the agenda of ISIS and Al-Qaida which has nothing to do with Islam. Ask people who are accepting Islam in the West and you will see majority of them were inspired by good moral character of a Muslim. That's what inspired them to look into Islam. And that's something our Prophet Muhammad PBUH worked for 40 years to build before he was chosen as a prophet.

    May Allah guide us to the correct understanding of the religion. Ameen! You are very active brother and I love your posts. I think it is my moral duty to correct you if you are wrong. My way may not be the best and I ask for your forgiveness if I have offended you in any way through my post.

    Love you for the sake of Allah!


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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Yes ofcourse brother, ambassadors of Islam indeed, however we are literally dealing with people who's ideology is to attack us, and this is why the response from us has to be the sunnah response of defensive attack back (within the perimeters of the law ofcourse)

    Dawah has been served to the right wing extremists and it continues to be served, but at the same time we have to deter them from attacking us.... No one is put off from Islam when a people defend themselves so its not like we'll be bad examples if we do

    Just look at what they did to the Jews in world war 2, the Jews who never lifted a finger in their defense just encouraged and emboldened these nazis to wipe them out

    Neo nazis (and that's what the 'right wing' are, are not here to reason with us or to listen to us, they are looking for 'weak spots' to attack.... And the worst thing we can do is appear as sheeps to them. We have to be the wolves or else we end up like the Jews too

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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Yes ofcourse brother, ambassadors of Islam indeed, however we are literally dealing with people who's ideology is to attack us, and this is why the response from us has to be the sunnah response of defensive attack back (within the perimeters of the law ofcourse)

    Dawah has been served to the right wing extremists and it continues to be served, but at the same time we have to deter them from attacking us.... No one is put off from Islam when a people defend themselves so its not like we'll be bad examples if we do

    Just look at what they did to the Jews in world war 2, the Jews who never lifted a finger in their defense just encouraged and emboldened these nazis to wipe them out

    Neo nazis (and that's what the 'right wing' are, are not here to reason with us or to listen to us, they are looking for 'weak spots' to attack.... And the worst thing we can do is appear as sheeps to them. We have to be the wolves or else we end up like the Jews too
    I see where are you coming from, save that for an actual war. We are not in war with any one. First we need to invite them to Islam with love and wisdom. It is not wise to hate them and say Quran tell us to wage a war against those who hate us. Guess what that's exactly what they want to hear. This attitude confirm that Islam promotes killing and terrorism, in reality it does not.

    I previously mentioned that Al-Qaida and ISIS used similar strategy. The difference between them and you is that they actually believed in their interpretation of Quran whole heartedly and them actually carried out so called Jihad at the name of Islam. Did it spread fear. It sure did. But what else happened? I gave an excuse to those who hated Islam to spread their own agenda of war against terrorism. That's why I advise that we need to be careful when we respond to non-Muslims especially. Every world which we write or which comes out of our mouth represents Islam. We should not say anything which Quran does not teach us.

    Let's ponder over some of the verses in Surah An-Naziat:

    Go to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed.
    And say to him, 'Would you [be willing to] purify yourself.
    And let me guide you to your Lord so you would fear [Him]? [Quran 79,17-19]
    Pharaoh is one of the worst human being in history, the one who declared he is god. What did Allah (SWT) say to Prophet Moses PBUH? Did He (SWT) asked him to wage a war against Pharaoh? No, He (SWT) did not. Allah SWT asked Moses to go and convey the message of Islam to Pharaoh so that he can be purified. That's our first duty and this needs to be done with wisdom. In the best possible way one can. Threatening others is worst way of Dawah.

    Regarding fight in the way of Allah, we have certain situations right now in several parts of the world where it is necessary for Muslims to stand up against oppression. Such examples include Palestine, Kashmir, Syria but it is sad to say that Muslims don't stand up where they need to. May Allah guide us all and give us wisdom to understand Islam and follow its teachings. Ameen!

    edited.....

    just watched another amazing conversion story of a well known Dutch ex politician Joram van Klaveren link below:
    https://youtu.be/AXnSMrjlaWY

    listen to the part between 10:00-12:00 and see how a wrong response from an ignorant Muslim initially turned him away from Islam. He also made a very important other comment between 29:00-31:00. You can watch whole video just as an inspiration and as something to learn to improve our dawah to non Muslims. If you don’t have enough time then may be just watch last 5 minutes of this video and the small 2 minute sections I mentioned before.
    Last edited by HabibUrrehman; 10-31-2019 at 01:15 AM.

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    Re: Multiple fatalities in shooting at Christchurch mosques

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibUrrehman View Post
    I see where are you coming from, save that for an actual war. We are not in war with any one. First we need to invite them to Islam with love and wisdom. It is not wise to hate them and say Quran tell us to wage a war against those who hate us. Guess what that's exactly what they want to hear. This attitude confirm that Islam promotes killing and terrorism, in reality it does not.

    I previously mentioned that Al-Qaida and ISIS used similar strategy. The difference between them and you is that they actually believed in their interpretation of Quran whole heartedly and them actually carried out so called Jihad at the name of Islam. Did it spread fear. It sure did. But what else happened? I gave an excuse to those who hated Islam to spread their own agenda of war against terrorism. That's why I advise that we need to be careful when we respond to non-Muslims especially. Every world which we write or which comes out of our mouth represents Islam. We should not say anything which Quran does not teach us.

    Let's ponder over some of the verses in Surah An-Naziat:



    Pharaoh is one of the worst human being in history, the one who declared he is god. What did Allah (SWT) say to Prophet Moses PBUH? Did He (SWT) asked him to wage a war against Pharaoh? No, He (SWT) did not. Allah SWT asked Moses to go and convey the message of Islam to Pharaoh so that he can be purified. That's our first duty and this needs to be done with wisdom. In the best possible way one can. Threatening others is worst way of Dawah.

    Regarding fight in the way of Allah, we have certain situations right now in several parts of the world where it is necessary for Muslims to stand up against oppression. Such examples include Palestine, Kashmir, Syria but it is sad to say that Muslims don't stand up where they need to. May Allah guide us all and give us wisdom to understand Islam and follow its teachings. Ameen!

    edited.....

    just watched another amazing conversion story of a well known Dutch ex politician Joram van Klaveren link below:
    https://youtu.be/AXnSMrjlaWY

    listen to the part between 10:00-12:00 and see how a wrong response from an ignorant Muslim initially turned him away from Islam. He also made a very important other comment between 29:00-31:00. You can watch whole video just as an inspiration and as something to learn to improve our dawah to non Muslims. If you don’t have enough time then may be just watch last 5 minutes of this video and the small 2 minute sections I mentioned before.
    BRuv, 50 muslims have been massacred in a mosque. Do a Google search of right wing extremists convicted of murder, terrorist attacks and attempted terrorism and then tell me if we are not already 'at war' with these nutters

    When order to fight was given by Allah to Muslims, Muslims were being persecuted in Makkah in a similar way,


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