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    Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

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    Excerpt:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49160818


    Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'
    30 July 2019
    Some women welcomed the bill
    India's parliament has approved a bill that makes the Muslim practice of "instant divorce" a criminal offence.

    "Triple talaq", as it's known, allows a husband to divorce his wife by repeating the word "talaq" (divorce) three times in any form, including email or text message.

    The Supreme Court declared the practice unconstitutional in 2017.

    Supporters say the new measure protects Muslim women. Opponents say the punishment is harsh and open to misuse.

    Men found in breach of the new law can be jailed for up to three years.

    The bill was first tabled in 2017 but stalled in the upper house of parliament, where some MPs called it unfair.

    India's governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) supports the bill, while the main opposition Congress party opposes it.
    But the BJP doesn't have a majority in the upper house. On Tuesday, the bill was passed by 99 votes to 84 after a number of walkouts and abstentions.

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi was quick to celebrate the vote as "a victory of gender justice".
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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Ah man things are getting tougher and more oppressive for our Indian Muslims; may Allah make it easy for them

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Excerpt:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49160818


    Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'
    30 July 2019
    Some women welcomed the bill
    India's parliament has approved a bill that makes the Muslim practice of "instant divorce" a criminal offence.

    "Triple talaq", as it's known, allows a husband to divorce his wife by repeating the word "talaq" (divorce) three times in any form, including email or text message.

    The Supreme Court declared the practice unconstitutional in 2017.

    Supporters say the new measure protects Muslim women. Opponents say the punishment is harsh and open to misuse.

    Men found in breach of the new law can be jailed for up to three years.

    The bill was first tabled in 2017 but stalled in the upper house of parliament, where some MPs called it unfair.

    India's governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) supports the bill, while the main opposition Congress party opposes it.
    But the BJP doesn't have a majority in the upper house. On Tuesday, the bill was passed by 99 votes to 84 after a number of walkouts and abstentions.

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi was quick to celebrate the vote as "a victory of gender justice".
    The same bill is underway in Islamic Republic of Pakistan, suggested and advised by the Council of Islamic Ideology.

    "Dr Qibla Ayaz, the chairperson of the Council of Islamic Ideology (CII), on Wednesday announced the council's decision to support the declaration of 'triple talaq' as a punishable offence, and that the council would undergo consultations with various scholars soon to decide the appropriate punishment in such cases." September 26, 2018 "Dawn News".
    Last edited by Saira Khan; 08-01-2019 at 01:51 PM.

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Hello,

    I have a question, something I have always wondered about regarding Islamic divorce.

    Islam teaches that the Qur'an has come to affirm the scriptures which came before (Sura 3:3). One would think that this would mean the morality espoused in Islam should be at least the same, or even better than that found in the books of the Bible (which would square with the Islamic doctrine of abrogation).

    However, the Islamic rules for divorce are very bad. Compare what Jesus said about divorce to what Muhammad said:

    Matthew 19:1-9 (ERV translation)
    ... [Jesus] went into the area of Judea on the other side of the Jordan River. Many people followed him. Jesus healed the sick people there. Some Pharisees came to Jesus. They tried to make him say something wrong. They asked him, “Is it right for a man to divorce his wife for any reason he chooses?”

    Jesus answered, “Surely you have read this in the Scriptures:
    When God made the world, ‘he made people male and female.’
    And God said, ‘That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. And the two people will become one.’
    So they are no longer two, but one. God has joined them together, so no one should separate them.”

    The Pharisees asked, “Then why did Moses give a command allowing a man to divorce his wife by writing a certificate of divorce?”

    Jesus answered, “Moses allowed you to divorce your wives because you refused to accept God’s teaching. But divorce was not allowed in the beginning. I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for the problem of sexual sin, and marries another woman is guilty of adultery.”

    The followers said to Jesus, “If that is the only reason a man can divorce his wife, it is better not to marry.”

    He answered, “This statement is true for some, but not for everyone—only for those who have been given this gift [the gift of singleness]. There are different reasons why some men don’t marry. Some were born without the ability to produce children. Others were made that way later in life. And others have given up marriage because of God’s kingdom. This is for anyone who is able to accept it."


    So Jesus teaches that it is better live a chaste life in service to God than to get married - that this is a high honor for people. He teaches that if you do marry, you should only marry one person. And he teaches that the only reason to divorce is if your spouse has been unfaithful. This applies to both women and men, and either may initiate divorce if their spouse is unfaithful.

    In Islam, I read that divorce can be enacted in several different ways, for a wide variety of reasons. This is not better than what came before. Especially when you consider that for most of Muhammad's ministry, he allowed temporary marriage for sexual gratification.

    Thoughts?

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewjg81 View Post
    Hello,

    I have a question, something I have always wondered about regarding Islamic divorce.

    Islam teaches that the Qur'an has come to affirm the scriptures which came before (Sura 3:3). One would think that this would mean the morality espoused in Islam should be at least the same, or even better than that found in the books of the Bible (which would square with the Islamic doctrine of abrogation).

    However, the Islamic rules for divorce are very bad. Compare what Jesus said about divorce to what Muhammad said:

    Matthew 19:1-9 (ERV translation)
    ... [Jesus] went into the area of Judea on the other side of the Jordan River. Many people followed him. Jesus healed the sick people there. Some Pharisees came to Jesus. They tried to make him say something wrong. They asked him, “Is it right for a man to divorce his wife for any reason he chooses?”

    Jesus answered, “Surely you have read this in the Scriptures:
    When God made the world, ‘he made people male and female.’
    And God said, ‘That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. And the two people will become one.’
    So they are no longer two, but one. God has joined them together, so no one should separate them.”

    The Pharisees asked, “Then why did Moses give a command allowing a man to divorce his wife by writing a certificate of divorce?”

    Jesus answered, “Moses allowed you to divorce your wives because you refused to accept God’s teaching. But divorce was not allowed in the beginning. I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for the problem of sexual sin, and marries another woman is guilty of adultery.”

    The followers said to Jesus, “If that is the only reason a man can divorce his wife, it is better not to marry.”

    He answered, “This statement is true for some, but not for everyone—only for those who have been given this gift [the gift of singleness]. There are different reasons why some men don’t marry. Some were born without the ability to produce children. Others were made that way later in life. And others have given up marriage because of God’s kingdom. This is for anyone who is able to accept it."


    So Jesus teaches that it is better live a chaste life in service to God than to get married - that this is a high honor for people. He teaches that if you do marry, you should only marry one person. And he teaches that the only reason to divorce is if your spouse has been unfaithful. This applies to both women and men, and either may initiate divorce if their spouse is unfaithful.

    In Islam, I read that divorce can be enacted in several different ways, for a wide variety of reasons. This is not better than what came before. Especially when you consider that for most of Muhammad's ministry, he allowed temporary marriage for sexual gratification.

    Thoughts?
    Jesus (pbuh) did not teach it is better to be unmarried and chasty, bible is mostly interpolated by man hence Christians sort of made up their religion as time went by.

    Jesus (pbuh) was sent as a very spiritual Prophet at his time to balance out the extreme materialism that was prevalent during his time, but his community would have been advised to marry etc; Prophets sometimes take more extreme measures than the average man as they have more responsibility on them; e.g our Prophet Muhammad (saw) married lots of widows to look after them while his community were restricted to 4 wives

    Jesus (pbuh) is going to marry on his return to this earth so he will complete his life soon doing all the things he never got to do.

    What Islam confirms of the past revelations is that they were ORIGINALLY revealed from God; thats all, and not that they are correct now (Infact Quran does say past scriptures have been corrupted) or that the Quran wouldn't differ in guidance

    Quran says it has been revealed for all mankind with a new guidance hence abrogating all previous religions
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 08-05-2019 at 06:01 PM.

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    @matthewjg81 The Islamic guidance is indeed either the same (of the ORIGINAL bible) or better, for example, Moses (pbuh) taught eye for an eye, Jesus (pbuh) taught turn the other cheek, and Islam incorporates both of these principles while holding that while a person has right for eye for an eye, to turn the other cheek (known as 'returning good for evil' in Islam) is better

    And this is better then either of those 2 just implemented individually as it keeps the choice of justice open for people who are not strong faithed enough to not retaliate
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 08-05-2019 at 07:11 PM.

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Hi Ahmed,

    I have heard this charge before, that the Bible we have now is not the same as the Bible during the time of Jesus, Moses, etc. If you think about it, tha claim really does not make sense.

    For example, when do you believe that the biblical books were changed? Did it happen before or after the life of Muhammad?

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewjg81 View Post
    Hi Ahmed,

    I have heard this charge before, that the Bible we have now is not the same as the Bible during the time of Jesus, Moses, etc. If you think about it, tha claim really does not make sense.

    For example, when do you believe that the biblical books were changed? Did it happen before or after the life of Muhammad?
    It started happening after Jesus (pbuh) left this earth and after his few followers died out. The exact dates of when it happened is not important as it's clear to see from all the contradictions and also biblical scholars themselves have said it's been changed

    Us Muslims have further divine proof of its distortions as the Quran confirms it.
    | Likes Kelsey28 liked this post

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Can you show me the quranic passages that support those claims?

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewjg81 View Post
    Can you show me the quranic passages that support those claims?
    And there are among them illiterates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture. Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
    Qur'an 2:78-79

    most surely there is a party amongst those who distort the book with their tongue....and they say it is from Allah; and they tell a lie against Allah while they know." 3:78

    - - - Updated - - -

    “Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will belive in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allaah (the Tawraat), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?” [al-Baqarah 2:75]

    “So because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allaah loves al-Muhsineen (good-doers).” [al-Maa’idah 5:13]

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://m.facebook.com/notes/answeri...8132049219039/


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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Also, it's true that here and there in the Bible are variant readings (a different word or two for some verses). But these are noted in the printed editions, and not one of them affect our theology,; that is, none of them would cause a difference in who God is, what he is like, how we are to obey him, etc. So our text has been very well documented,for nearly 2000 years. And Muhammad was certainly a fan, even if he was incorrect about what the Bible actually says.

    Thoughts?

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewjg81 View Post
    Also, it's true that here and there in the Bible are variant readings (a different word or two for some verses). But these are noted in the printed editions, and not one of them affect our theology,; that is, none of them would cause a difference in who God is, what he is like, how we are to obey him, etc. So our text has been very well documented,for nearly 2000 years. And Muhammad was certainly a fan, even if he was incorrect about what the Bible actually says.

    Thoughts?
    By the way, I put a post up BEFORE this one but it hasn't been approved yet, so maybe hold off on commenting until you get to read the first one.

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    There is no proof at all that the Bible was preserved. To the contrary there is evidence that it was distorted. Even a minor distortion is proof that it was tampered with

    Therefore we cannot trust anything the Bible says accept what accords with the Quran as Quran remains undistorted.

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Shaykh Hamza Yusuf - Preservation of the Quran - YouTube
    During the 2008 Rihla to Mecca and Madina, Hamza Yusuf translated and explained the profound and eloquent poem titled Qurrat al-Absar, or Discerning the Eyes......
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 08-07-2019 at 07:30 PM.

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Ahmed, my post still isn't live, I don't know when it will be approved.

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewjg81 View Post
    Ahmed, my post still isn't live, I don't know when it will be approved.
    Sometimes these posts slip through the net and doesn't get noticed by the mods.... don't worry as nothing will convince me that Bible is not distorted Mathew, there's just too much stark evidence that it is!

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Hopefully my post will be approved.
    The short version is that the Qur'an passages you presented regard either verbal and 'commodity' corruption. By verbal, I mean that someone is simply speaking to someone else, telling them the Bible says something it doesn't say. This is wrong, and evil, but it wouldn't actually change any edition of the text.

    By commodity corruption (I think I just invented that phrase), it's talking about people writing out false verses and giving it to people who can't read it. Much like how Christians might buy a poster with a Bible verse on it or Muslims might put up a framed Qur'an verse in their home (and, for the record, most of my Muslim friends who do this can't read any language at all, let alone Arabic). The obvious problem is that again, this wouldn't change the extant editions of the Bible, and copyists wouldn't use them either. So this wouldn't corrupt the text. The passage doesn't even say that it has, it's just identifying a bad practice.

    Anyway, your Qur'an even tells you that no one can change God's words, and that the Qur'an came to confirm (rather than correct) what came before. So on this issue, I actually agree with the Qur'an!

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    Re: Triple talaq: India criminalises Muslim 'instant divorce'

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewjg81 View Post
    Hopefully my post will be approved.
    The short version is that the Qur'an passages you presented regard either verbal and 'commodity' corruption. By verbal, I mean that someone is simply speaking to someone else, telling them the Bible says something it doesn't say. This is wrong, and evil, but it wouldn't actually change any edition of the text.

    By commodity corruption (I think I just invented that phrase), it's talking about people writing out false verses and giving it to people who can't read it. Much like how Christians might buy a poster with a Bible verse on it or Muslims might put up a framed Qur'an verse in their home (and, for the record, most of my Muslim friends who do this can't read any language at all, let alone Arabic). The obvious problem is that again, this wouldn't change the extant editions of the Bible, and copyists wouldn't use them either. So this wouldn't corrupt the text. The passage doesn't even say that it has, it's just identifying a bad practice.

    Anyway, your Qur'an even tells you that no one can change God's words, and that the Qur'an came to confirm (rather than correct) what came before. So on this issue, I actually agree with the Qur'an!
    The Quran says Jesus (pbuh) was Allah's servant and Messenger and those who say that he is god or gods son or say he is 1 of a trinity will go to hell, so at least these bits of the Bible is distorted

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyway, you seem to have missed the main point I made a while back Mathew, and that is that, the Quran also says it has been sent to All mankind hence abrogating the former religions so this is why the Bible becomes irrelevant now as it's invalid. Islam/Quran is the ONLY path to salvation now


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