Palestinian-israeli Conflict - By Lamaggad & lavikor201 :)

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

We were commanded to to this to the Midians, a people of Idol worshipers who commited crimes against hummanity against the Israelites. Hashem gave us permission to fight back with no mercy, and destroy the prisoners they took, the same way they killed us. It has nothing to do with Palestinians... but hey... most of the rest of your post was based on innaccuracy so I guess misquoting G-d's word tops it off.

God would NEVER give permission to fight with NO MERCY?!?! what kind of command is that..?!?! i would not go and kill people who have nothing to do with other crimes...
you can't do that for REVENGE

then for what you have said.. please do not blame SUICIDE BOMBERS for fighting with NO MERCY...
they have the right to do that since their family are already killed and they also want REVENGE.
if you have the right to fight with no mercy bcz you have suffered from crimes against humanity and against israeli... then other should do the same since they have already suffered from crime and LOTS of massacres.

Thank God Islam never give any Muslim the right to fight with no mercy no matter what situation they have been throw...

thanks for clarifying your believe to me.

God would NEVER give permission to fight with NO MERCY?!?! what kind of command is that..?!?! i would not go and kill people who have nothing to do with other crimes...
you can't do that for REVENGE

- al-Taubah (9):123 - "O believers, fight (qaatiloo) the unbelievers (kuffaar) who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness (ghilza)."

- Baqara (2):191 - "And slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you come upon them"

Nisaa' (4):89 - "then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you find them"

- Nisaa' (4):91 - "If they withdraw not from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, take them, and slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you come on them; against them we have given you a clear authority."

Oh yes.... you just did not straight up lie.

what about: 'Allah has no mercy on one who has no mercy for others.'

if the Midinates(sp?) had no mercy and slaughtered Jews for no reason than "Allah" would have no mercy on them... Have you even ever read the Quran?

Do you even have the right to judge his religion?!?

Post removed as i thought i was replying to lavikor201 instead of ganeshsikkim, same thing with the post after this, i also thought i was replying to lavikor201.

format_quote Originally Posted by ganeshsikkim

- al-Taubah (9):123 - "O believers, fight (qaatiloo) the unbelievers (kuffaar) who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness (ghilza)."

- Baqara (2):191 - "And slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you come upon them"

Nisaa' (4):89 - "then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you find them"

- Nisaa' (4):91 - "If they withdraw not from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, take them, and slay them (aqtuloohum) wherever you come on them; against them we have given you a clear authority."

Oh yes.... you just did not straight up lie.

First of all, wene you want to show me translated verses from the Qura'an, please give me the full translation for the verses before and the verses after the verse you have mentioned so you can understand WHY God have said (uqtuloohum)&(qatilo) the unbeliever.

trust me every time you get any verse from Qura'an as a proof, it will be used against you since you are redirecting it in a false place were it should not be.

if you want me to explain for you those verses... let me know and I'll do it for you since you are using them wrong..

hey ganeshsikkim...

i didn't actually notice that i was replying to your posts till now wene lavikor201 pointed it to me .. hehehe

the whole time i was thinking that lavikor201 have made those posts not you.

i will edit one of them now as i was talking about Jewish believes not Hindu

Thanks lavikor201 for the clarification

ganesh did not have a bad argument though.

You did misquote the Torah in your argument, and he misquotes the Quran.

The quote your provided was G-d's command to show them no mercy. Let me ask you.

If Midianites comes up to you and force you to woship his idols or die, what do you chose?

In Judaism, the law is to chose death. We are commanded by G-d to chose death if someone tells us to Murder, Rape, or Worship an Idol.

So what would you chose?

A group of people have come to your house and told you to Worship there Idol or die... do you fight back and show them no mercy in battle? Or do ou submit to them?

G-d commanded us to show no mercy to the Midianites and they recieved no mercy. As harsh as it may sound.

I will ansewr your question when i go home...
i'm at work right now...

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

If Midianites comes up to you and force you to woship his idols or die, what do you chose?

Die...

A group of people have come to your house and told you to Worship there Idol or die... do you fight back and show them no mercy in battle? Or do you submit to them?

I would fight back with no mercy ONLY with the people who accused me, i will not kill children or old men bcz I'm fighting with no mercy. bcz if he is also fighting me with no mercy, that doesn't mean that he can basically kill my little brother and my father and so on... fighting with no mercy is not an excuse to kill innocent people what so ever.

G-d commanded us to show no mercy to the Midianites and they recieved no mercy. As harsh as it may sound.

we are also ordered to fight back till death and defend our religion and the word of God, BUT we are ALSO ordered to protect those innocent lives as much as we can EVEN if they are non-Muslims. bcz Islam is all about Mercy even if we are fighting back.

I would fight back with no mercy ONLY with the people who accused me, i will not kill children or old men bcz I'm fighting with no mercy. bcz if he is also fighting me with no mercy, that doesn't mean that he can basically kill my little brother and my father and so on... fighting with no mercy is not an excuse to kill innocent people what so ever.

But the old men were the kings and the elders commanding the Midianite men to make you worship idols or die. They taught the Midianite men to hate you in such a way because your belief in one G-d. If you do not slay there children, then your children will become victims to theres because the old men will teach the children to hate. The corrupt society was judged by G-d to not have a single soul that deserved mercy.

Very few times did the Israelites show no mercy, and G-d willed us not to in this case.

we are also ordered to fight back till death and defend our religion and the word of God, BUT we are ALSO ordered to protect those innocent lives as much as we can EVEN if they are non-Muslims. bcz Islam is all about Mercy even if we are fighting back.

The Midianites though represented evil. They razed the crops, forced Jews to chose death, and were breeded to hate the Israelites since they were babies. Judaism is also all about mercy which is why, we needed the word of G-d to act without mercy.

The Midianites destoryed everything, and commited atrocities to the highest manner. The Midianites goal was to destroy what the worship of G-d. The Israelites were commanded by G-d to show them no mercy in battle, because every Midianite was guilty beyond forgiveness because of the atrocities they commited.

I disagree lavikor201 because i don't think the jewish in isereal treat the muslims at isereal very nice infact they want to control them and they want have there land I don't hate jewish people or anything, but why would you want to control others if you can't control yourself and your citizens. So far the isrealist have to done so many damages to the palastine people when are people going to realize that we need to treat each other equally and try to be nice to each other and accept each for who we are and just forget about the past, but i guess its never going to happen, But i will pray that it does inshallah.

Thats your opinion and you have a right to it. I completley disagree with you. But I am not going to even waste my breath arguing because I probbaly wont change your opinion and you definitly will not change mine

Now I will wait for Lammagad's response to my question.

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

But the old men were the kings and the elders commanding the Midianite men to make you worship idols or die. They taught the Midianite men to hate you in such a way because your belief in one G-d. If you do not slay there children, then your children will become victims to theres because the old men will teach the children to hate. The corrupt society was judged by G-d to not have a single soul that deserved mercy.


Very few times did the Israelites show no mercy, and G-d willed us not to in this case.

The Midianites though represented evil. They razed the crops, forced Jews to chose death, and were breeded to hate the Israelites since they were babies. Judaism is also all about mercy which is why, we needed the word of G-d to act without mercy.

The Midianites destoryed everything, and commited atrocities to the highest manner. The Midianites goal was to destroy what the worship of G-d. The Israelites were commanded by G-d to show them no mercy in battle, because every Midianite was guilty beyond forgiveness because of the atrocities they commited.

First of all, you did not describe this situation to me till AFTER i responded to your GENERAL question. your question was EXTREMELY GENERAL and i answered it as you have described it.

BUT now you are telling much MORE DETAILS that i should have known before so i can give you my exact response to this situation.

you should be CLEAR with me from the beginning not AFTER you make me answer you... but oh boy... never mind.. i will comment on each sentence you have mentioned again.

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

Now I will wait for Lammagad's response to my question.

and here is my respond as promissed

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

But the old men were the kings and the elders commanding the Midianite men to make you worship idols or die. They taught the Midianite men to hate you in such a way because your belief in one G-d.

i am not going to guess each person intentions... if i would know that he is against me and want me killed, then i will fight him as well... i have no problems at all to add him on the enimies list...
BUT, if he's old enough and he can't fight, i won't kill him, bcz he's not strong enough to defend him self at that point... i will take him as a hostage, and treat fairly and give him a chance to learn the truth him self.

If you do not slay there children, then your children will become victims to theres because the old men will teach the children to hate.

you know what.. if i have the same thinking as you, i would tell you that the 3 years old kid who was killed will grow up in a zionist society and will learn how to hate Arabs and own a gun and starts killing us and even plan to kill us if she was still alive, so it's better that she is killed... i can tell you the SAME THING then and you should NOT blame Palestinians about her life.. but I'm surprised you are.

BUT NOO... i will not kill her WHAT SO EVER and i will PROTECT HER SOUL as much as i can, if she was killed accidentally then that's God's well.
There is ANOTHER chance that this kid will learn the right from wrong and live peacefully LIKE YOU. so why KILL HER?!?!?!
instead of killing her, we can still give her the freedom to chose what ever she believes in and teach her the truth instead of teaching her HOW TO KILL AND HATE ARABS..

she also deserve to live like me, you and EVERY ONE.

The corrupt society was judged by G-d to not have a single soul that deserved mercy.

the corrupt society you are talking about will have no mercy, if they are the one who CAME TO US AND STARTED TO attack me and attack my family and my country...

BUT you should STILL EXCLUDE KIDS and NOT KILL THEM WHAT SO EVER, bcz they still have another Chance to be good.

GOD HAVE ORDERED US TO HAVE MERCY AND LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE FIRST BEFORE FIGHTING WITH YOUR WAY IN NO MERCY.

why are you looking at the bad side ONLY... there is also another GOOD BRIGHT side that we should put it on TOP of our consideration and TRY OUR BEST TO MAKE IT HAPPEN BEFORE WE KILL THOSE KIDS.

The Midianites destoryed everything, and commited atrocities to the highest manner. The Midianites goal was to destroy what the worship of G-d. The Israelites were commanded by G-d to show them no mercy in battle, because every Midianite was guilty beyond forgiveness because of the atrocities they commited.

so as i understand from you, that what happen in Sabra & Shatila is RIGHT and it's ORDERS FROM GOD?!?! is that what you are trying to say?!?! and what happened to MUHAMMAD AL-DURRA is RIGHT, and what happened to HUDA GALYA is right?!?
and also i want to ask you...
- does that give sharon the right to say that "GOD HAVE MADE A MISTAKE THAT HE HAVE CREATED THE PALESTINIANS"?
- does that give the right to olmert to say "WE WILL NOT STOP OUR ATTACKS IN GAZA WHAT SO EVER EVEN THOUGH INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE DYING"
please don't tell me that this is politics, when some one is speaking about God like that, then they are definitely speaking about thier false believes.

if that's what you mean.. then by all means we have the right to do even WORSE... BUT bcz God is merciful on his PEOPLE not CHILDREN even if they are NON-MUSLIMS, we are not allowed to do any Massacres or kill any innocent life no matter what age they are not just children and small kids.

and in Islam before we even start to talk about killing and wars... we should look over ALL the peaceful solutions before we decide to KILL. and if we decided to go for a battle, we are also ordered to make sure not to loose allot of SOULS. and try to win the battle with less blood by making the enemies surrender instead of having them all KILLED. by that we can give them another chance to teach them the truth.

You can't beat me lavikor201 even if you are stick to your opinion
What you have said is wrong... if you can prove other wise... please do
and i will more than happy to tell you I WAS WRONG if you really did

I am not a Palestinian neither Israeli. But from what I've seen Israeli Arabs are given good treatments by Israeli Jews inside Israel. But Palestinian Arabs are bad treated by Israeli armies in Occupied territories.

At least Israel has Muslim and Arab representatives in Knesset. Would Future state Palestine have Jews in their Parliament?