Terrorist Who ?

Little history on Israel

NATIONHOOD AND JERUSALEM

1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
The use of the word “nation” is ambiguous unless it is defined. It is confusing and misleading to use a modern notion and apply it to what happened in 1312 BC. This is how Black’s Law Dictionary defines the word "nation":

“a people, or aggregation of men, existing in the form of an organized jural society, usually inhabiting a distinct portion of the earth, speaking the same language, using the same customs, possessing historic continuity, and distinguished from other like groups by their racial origin and characteristics, and generally, but not necessarily, living under the same government and sovereignty.”
According to this definition Israel became a nation once it became an independent kingdom in 1011 BC (King David 1011-971 BC; and King Solomon 971-931 BC). In 931 BC, the kingdom was divided in two: Israel in the north, (capital Samaria) from 931 to 722 BC; and Judah in the south (capital Jerusalem) from 931 to 587 BC.
Samaria fell to Assyria in 722 BC and a large portion of the population was deported. This kingdom lasted for 209 years.
Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians in 587 BC and the cream of the population was deported. This kingdom lasted for 344 year.
The total number of years during which Israel was a "nation", even if we take into consideration the small Kingdom of Judah is 424 years. Outside this period Israel was more of a religion than a nation.
The Pittsburgh Platform of 1885 was issued by a group of reform rabbis. It stated: “we consider ourselves no longer a nation but a religious community" (see full text of Pittsburg Platform ).
Furthermore, a letter dated April 20, 1964, from Assistant Secretary of State Phillips Talbot to Rabbi Elmer Berger stated: the State Department "does not recognize a legal-political relationship based upon religious identification of American citizens ... it should be clear that the Department of State does not regard the Jewish people concept as a concept of international law" (see full text of the letter ).
Israel ceased to be a nation in 587 BC. It became a nation again in AD 1948. According to the definition given in Black’s Law Dictionary Jews who are not Israelis do not belong to the Israeli nation, they belong the Jewish faith like their coreligionists in Israel.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the Modern State of Israel.
First, there are no Arab refugees in Israel, unless the writer has already annexed the Occupied Territories, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon to Israel.
The problem of the Palestinian refugees, that the writer calls “Arab” refugees to confuse the reader and avoid using the word Palestinian, started from the moment Israel was established in 1948, since some 700,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes and their homeland and were not allowed to return. There is even a UN resolution that deal with the Palestinian refugees. It is General Assembly resolution 194 of 11 December 1948. The resolution deals explicitly, among other things, with the return of the Palestinian refugees to their homes.
Whether the "Arab" refugees began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967 or not is irrelevant. The fact is that there is today a universal aknowledgment that there is a Palestinian people, even Israel acknowledges this fact. To deny it won't solve the problem of Israel.


3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
What is said in No. 1 above is relevant here. I detect a contradiction between what is said in 1 above and what is being said here. How can Israel be considered a nation in 1312 BC (see No. 1 above) when the "Jewish conquest" of the land of Canaan occurred later in 1272 BC?
There can be no nation without “inhabiting a distinct portion of the earth,” according to the definition. The continuous presence in the land, if we accept it for the sake of argument, was a presence of the Jews as individuals not as a nation. Following the first revolt, the Romans destroyed the Temple in AD 70. After the second revolt (AD 132-135), the Jews were either killed or sold into slavery and dispersed in the Roman Empire. Emperor Hadrian built a temple in honor of Jupiter on the site of the Jewish temple and issued a decree that prohibited under penalty of death the presence of the Jews in Jerusalem. The prohibition was lifted after the Muslim Arab conquest.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
In 638, not 635, Jerusalem and Palestine, were conquered by the Muslim Arabs. The Muslim rule lasted from 638 to 1099, from 1187 to 1229 and from 1239 to 1917 which is the year Jerusalem fell to General Allenby. In the interim periods, that is from 1099 to 1187 and from 1229 to 1239 the Crusaders established the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem. The total number of years Muslims ruled Jerusalem and Palestine is 1,181 years not 22. The writer was off the mark by just 1,159 years. It should be mentioned that before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War One, there was only one dominion, Muslim dominion. Speaking of Arab dominion is misleading.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
Jerusalem was a Jewish capital for no more than 424 years (see No. 1 above). In fact, Jerusalem was a meaningful capital only when the kingdom established by David was unified, that is from 1011 BC to 931 BC, or 80 years. The fact that Jerusalem was never a capital of any Arab or Muslim entity doesn't make it less of an Arab city. San Antonio has never been the capital of the United States. Does this mean that it is a Mexican city?

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
What does this suppose to mean? What is the conclusion that must be drawn from this statement? How about counting the number of times Jerusalem was mentioned in the New Testament?

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
The answer given in 6 above is relevant here. Again, what about Jesus? In their profession of faith, Christians say at every mass: “for our sake he (Jesus Christ) was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures." These events didn't happen in Paris or New York but in Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
Another incongruous statement. What are we supposed to make of it? The issue is not a religious one, as the author is trying to establish from points 5 to 8 . It is an issue of self-determination of a disenfranchised indigenous people. Also, the writer is presenting the issue as if it is an issue between the Jews and the Muslims ignoring the fact that the Arab Christians in the Middle East outnumber the Jews of Israel and the billion Christians in the world outnumber the 14 million Jews. The fact also is that Christianity has more holy sites in Jerusalem than Judaism and Islam combined. The Church of the Holy Sepulcher, the holiest place in Christianity, is in Jerusalem. If the issue is a religious one, then the Christians' claim is stronger than that of the Jews or the Muslims.


ARAB AND JEWISH REFUGEES

9. In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
Simha Flapan in his book, The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities, refers to the terrorists methods used by the Haganah, Irgun and LEHI to force the Palestinians out of their homeland. Flapan estimated that “84 percent (of the Palestinians) left in direct response to Israeli actions.” The Irish journalist, Erskine Childers, examined the American and the British radio-monitoring records for all 1948. In his article "The Other Exodus" that appeared in the (London) Spectator of May 12, 1961, he wrote the following: "There was not a single order, or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put." (see the full text ).

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
The Jews were forced to flee the Arab countries not because of Arab brutality but because of Jewish brutality. Akiva Orr in his book Israel: Politics, Myths and Identity Crises wrote the following: “in 1948 Jews were not expelled from countries like Iraq, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya, but induced to leave by Zionist emissaries from Israel who often used dirty tricks like throwing bombs into synagogues to create the impression of anti-Jewish persecution to stampede the Jews to Israel.” Once in Israel, some of the Iraqi Jews have even sued the Israeli government for damages. Also, Wilbur Crane Evenlan, a former senior officer in the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) wrote in his 1980 book Ropes of Sand: America's Failure in the Middle East:

"In attempts to portray the Iraqis as ani-American and to terrorize the Jews, the Zionists planted bombs in the U.S. Information Service library and in synagogues. Soon leaflets began to appear urging Jews to flee to Israel. ... Although the Iraqi police later provided our embassy with evidence to show that the synagogue and library bombings as well as the anti-Jewish and anti-American leaflet campaings had been the work of an underground Zionist organization, most of the world believed reports that Arab terrorism had motivated the flight of the Iraqi Jews whom the Zionists had "rescued" really just in order to increase Israel's Jewish population." (pp. 48-49)
For a first-hand account by an eyewitness, read Naeim Giladi's testimony in The Link of April-May 1998, published by the Americans for Middle East Understanding, Inc. Read The Jews of Iraq .
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
Again the Palestinian refugees, (not Arab refugees) who left Israel in 1948 did not leave Palestine voluntarily but were driven out by the Jewish terrorist organizations (see 9 above). On the other hand, the Jewish “refugees” left voluntarily or induced to leave from their Arab homelands (see No. 10 above).

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
Should we show our appreciation to the writer for his concern about the Palestinian refugees who were “INTENTIONALY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands?” The writer is lamenting the fact that the Palestinians are “the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples’ lands.” Well, their land is Palestine. I am all for their return to their land. The writer wants the Palestinian refugees to be absorbed in the Arab lands. This is exactly how criminals think. They want to remove any trace of the crime they have committed; then they can delude themselves that they have a clear conscience.


THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT

13. The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
If the writer knew how to count he would have found out that there are 20 Arab states not 8. Whether there are 20 or 70 Arab states, Palestinians are entitled to live in their homeland. As far as the "five wars" intitiated by the Arabs: The first war was the 1948 war and was triggered by the establishment of Israel. The 1956 war was started by Israel with the help of France and Great Britain. The 1967 war was started by Israel. The 1973 war was launched by Egypt and Syria to liberate their occupied territories, not more. The 1982 war against Lebanon was started by Israel.

14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons.
The PLO Charter has been amended and all clauses calling for Israel’s destruction were cancelled. On April 24, 1996, the Palestine National Council voted 504 to 54 to cancel those clauses. Contrary to what is stated, Israel has NOT given the Palestinians most of the West Bank. The West Bank was divided into three zones: Area A fully controlled by the Palestinian Authority consists of 12%; Area B jointly controlled by Israel (security control) and the Palestinian Authority (civilian control) consists of 26.8%; and Area C totally controlled by Israel consists of 61.2%. Who then controls most of the West Bank? (see map )

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
Under Jordanian rule Israel, the Jewish state, was officially at war with Jordan. Under the Israeli rule, Muslim and Christian Palestinians from the occupied territories are today denied access to places of worship. Those Muslims and Christians who have access to places of worship are Israeli citizens. Desecration of holy sites is done by fanatics. There is no shortage of them among Muslims, Christians and Jews.


THE U.N. RECORD ON ISRAEL AND THE ARABS

16. Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
That is because Israel was at fault 97 times.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
That is because Israel was at fault 429 times.

18. The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
Why is it that Israel did not complain to the U.N.?

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
The U.N. is not a super government. Member states must take the initiative to complain or ask for a Security Council meeting to take up their complaints.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
See answer given in No. 19.



These are incredible times. We have to ask what our role should be. What will we tell our grandchildren we did when there was a turning point in Jewish destiny, an opportunity to make a difference?
These are indeed incredible times. We should tell our grandchildren the truth.

For those of you who were kind and interested enough to read, the preceding, let me add two more items:

a) Israel is the ONLY MEMBER OF THE UN THAT IS NOT PERMITTED MEMBERSHIP ON THE SECURITY COUNCIL
For Israel to be a member of the Security Council it has to belong to one of the five following groups: Asian states, African states, Latin American and the Caribbean states, Eastern European states, and Western Europe and other states. If no one group wants to accept Israel as a member then there must be something wrong with Israel.

b) Israel has NEVER BEEN PERMITTED MEMBERSHIP IN THE INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS
As far as I know, it is because Israel insists on using the Star of David as en emblem. The Red Cross accepted the Crescent next to the Cross because there are many Muslim states in the world. How many Jewish states are there in the world?

START NOW!!
Send this to 20 other people you know and ask them to send it to twenty others, Jews and non-Jews, it doesn't really matter. The truth and the cause of peace are universal values we all share, and everyone must know.
By all means. Don't just send this to 20 other people but to the whole world, so that the whole world will learn the truth and the whole world will also learn how the truth is being distorted and the facts are being manipulated by the author of this Crash Course in the Real Facts.

Back to Table of Contents

shorter version
the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of
Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or
inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If
this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the
eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition,
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO
genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents
of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been
documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can
claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day
"Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact
that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine
was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and
assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only
ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled
the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a
history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.

I hope this helps,

I think it is important to read history stripped of politics... otherwise it is easy to give up one's rights... people prey on fear and ignorance .....

Hang tough... remember this is you can read arabic
"Allhouma anta rabi, la illah ila ant, 3lyka twaklt, wanta rab al3rsh al3atheem, masha Allah kan, wma lam yahsha lam yakoun, wla 7wla wla qiwta ila billah al3ly al3aztheem, a3lam ana Allah 3la kol shy'yen qadeer, wana Allah a7at bikol shy'en 3ilma" And know that no one can do anything to you or the Muslim world that Allah doesn't will... =)

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

Why? It happens to be true.

let me think
Hmmm…..
give u the future screen of the world.(after thinking)

If all those countries who have nuclear capabilities/strong Arm forces
starting to say…
their neighbor countries or any other countries are harmful for their existence
and they staring invading all the neighbor counties/ terrorize their right in order to make them poor/ less capable. What will happen than?

World become a barbaric one then any ever imagine.

if u study u found a very few countries are called peaceful from their neighbor
Border tension can be happen bcoz military personal a bit rush blooded.

But that does not give permission to anyone starting war. .

Actually I was in debate will heigou
Where heigou keep saying that
Palestine refuses peace and prefers violent solution

It is Israel who wants to solve problem with arm

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

right. Nasser didn't include in that particular speech an advance announcement of an attack intended to destroy the State of Israel. Do you think that would have been smart?! Well, we don't know if Nasser did or not. From the same article (which I notice you didn't source), another quote from Nasser;

Annoyed again

The source is from heigou.
I mention it on the reply.
Also saying that it’s not a bad link.
It is u that not reading the post but reply with big mouth

u and ur people’s thought (Preserving existence) killed above 20000 thousands people
Leveled several villages.

That is really right and peaceful thing to do.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel ... to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not of more declarations."

Who deny it?

U must find why that situation created
I post it earlier
U may not read it (based on the same source heigou given and u)
my comment is : that source cover the subject why that situation created poorly

format_quote Originally Posted by i_m_tipu

On April 7, 1967, a minor border incident escalated into a full-scale aerial battle over the Golan Heights, resulting in the loss of six Syrian MiG-21s to Israeli Air Force (IAF) Dassault Mirage III, and the latter's flight over Damascus.
Other border incidents in which Israel and Syria exchanged artillery, tank and aircraft fire increased the tensions along this front. The Israeli government was under heavy pressure to put an end to Syrian shelling of border villages.

Israel had terrorized their Arabs border and the village near border, they destroying village near border.

And that created a heavy tension into Syria and Egypt

one example can be given

India and Pakistan

They have almost 100 to 1000 people killed in border clash in every year
They have border tension almost every year
Do those starting war every monument?

It is Israeli always thought military is better option than talking. They prove that all the time. They are harmful for the world of peace.


Currently they prove that again.
Some member of Hezbollah kidnaps 2 solider of Israel
They thought they could make their prisoner (their bro/relative) release in exchange. Some them there in prison era after era inhuman way.

But what brutal thing Israel did. They destroyed the city and blowing the family while they in house.
That is the real style of Israel.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

Oh dear.


Ah, "guarantees". That's all right then; via the Americans the Israelis could have complete confidence in those.

You might as well [Link only for registered members] to the whole of that article. You don't mention such things as;

On May 18, 1967, Egypt formally requested the withdrawal of UNEF from Sinai. UN Secretary-General U Thant complied, thus removing the international buffer which had existed along the Egyptian-Israeli border since 1957. Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser then began the re-militarization of the Sinai, and concentrated tanks and troops on the border with Israel

.

and

On May 22, Egypt announced that the Straits of Tiran would be closed to "all ships flying Israel flags or carrying strategic materials", with effect from May 23

and

he continued to take actions intended to increase the level of mobilization of Egypt, Syria and Jordan in order to bring unbearable pressure on Israel.

With ever increasing Arab mobilization, waiting was a luxury the Israelis could no longer afford. If they had, their defeat would have been inevitable once that mobilization was complete and those "guarantees" could conveniently be ignored by those who had given them.

First let me say one thing

I feel very disturb to see some member here always try to reply very quickly without reading properly.

Look Trumble I was in a debate to heigou
And u joins later
That’s fine

But it is ur responsibilities to read the reply what given to original debaters (heigou)

I just give reply to u as much as u wanted with hoped that u also read the original reply.

But ur comment make everyone to think I m doing mistake/confuse for not to give the whole article
real thing is u are doing mistake for not reading the other post.

pls read the post no #30

In conclusion
Israel is a terrorist country.
Bcoz It terrorize other people right violently.
Not one country affected by them quite a lot country of the world affected by them.
They have been face criticize so much past 30-40 yrs that
I believe no other country in the world of history face that much criticize

They are very harmful for the world of peace.

I pray that Allah swt guides Hezbollah (sp?) and Bani' Israel.

God certainly not Love War

God also reward them
Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Hibbaan reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Whoever is killed defending his property is a martyr

whoever is killed defending himself is a martyr

whoever is killed defending his religion is a martyr

and whoever is killed defending his family is a martyr



In the commentary on this hadeeth it says: “whoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed” refers to the one who defends the honour of his wife and female relatives.

format_quote Originally Posted by dianputri

i only pray that ALLAH SWT only guide hezbollah not israel.

Subhan'allah.

I pray that Allah swt returns mercy to the hearts of the people in this Ummah.

What would the harm be if Allah swt gave Hidayat to Bani' Israel? Would it be so bad if they turned into Muslims? Even if they didn't become muslims,..would it be so bad if they stopped killing our brothers and sisters once they are guided?

With all respect sis,.. think with your mind first,then think with your heart,..

..don't ever think through Hatred.

If you are going to do that, then you have no rights to say Israel is Evil. Because you are lowering yourself to their level.

Subhan'allah.

format_quote Originally Posted by nennar

heigou! i know know that you are a jew!!!!!!!! and all you do in this forum is to make problems and start a war in here! if you feel so strongly about what happends... then you are in the wrong war!....... the jews had a very touhg time during ww2 and i really do feel sad for them ....BUT read your torah!........... its saying that you dont have a land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did you forget this??????????????? because the jewish people from the beginning of time DIDNtt listenn to GOD! your are cursed and you all know it! thats why you do all the terrible things you do...... go and fight... that would be better for you and your soul

Nennar, I assure you I am not a Jew, I have never been a Jew, I will never (I expect) become a Jew. On the other hand if you want to think of me as a Jew I am perfectly happy to be considered an Honorary Jew for the purposes of posting on LI.

What Torah? Not mine. Where does the Torah say this and what relevance does it have? Cursed? Come on now, this is not only unfair it verges on the outright anti-Semitic. Jews are no different to anyone else. They want to live in peace and get on with their lives. They have created a peaceful, prosperous and more or less democratic state. What is the alternative?

Combining two posts into one

i also want from the bottum of my heart... this forum to be for all! but someone only come into this forum , to make war not to disscuss ..... and i really dont understand what these types wants! we are seeing our sisters and brothers beeing killed... and for what?????? for the state of israel???? who do what ever they want eveyday...... they dont care about anyone other than them selves...... they are heartless uncaring humanbeeings...... i know that not all israeis are like that... but

You are seeing your Brothers and Sisters killed but in London, in Spain, in Mumbai, in Thailand, in the Philippines, in Bali, in the Sudan, in every part of the world I am seeing my Brothers and Sisters killed. And for what? Why would anyone behead three school girls in Indonesia? You are so quick to be outraged when Kafirs defend themselves. Why are you silent when kafirs die? How many of your words in the above could be said about some or all of your Brothers and Sisters?

I am not making War. I think that people want to kill me and I think I have a right to defend myself. What is wrong with that? And if it comes down to it, regardless of the many injustices commited in Israel, if an Israeli defeat only makes it more likely that I will be killed by the sort of people who are enemies of Israel, I will oppose an Israeli defeat. I never thought that Israel's fight was my fight, but it clearly is.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

Geographically Israel should belong to the Asian group, but unsurprisingly membership was barred by the Arab states. For the record Israel was granted temporary membership of the 'Western European and others' group in 2000, which was made permanent in 2004. Since 2000 !

How are they Asian? I am not surprised Arab states banned them...Good for them being granted temporary anything.. they always have to sneak their way in by force, coercion or a dramatic reenactment on Hollywood... still they are a colonial settler state... surprised those were the only two things in the article of interest to you..... but nonetheless expected....





What lovely sense of timing! Israel was finally admitted to the International Red Cross last Thursday
Glad they can get their kids into shelter and get em goods while others receive bombs from both fronts.....

format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou

You are seeing your Brothers and Sisters killed but in London, in Spain, in Mumbai, in Thailand, in the Philippines, in Bali, in the Sudan, in every part of the world I am seeing my Brothers and Sisters killed. And for what? Why would anyone behead three school girls in Indonesia?

Surely some individual’s act is very shameful.
Not all of them are Muslim
Lot of kaffir involvement also there.
Surely some individual’s tiring to take advantage of critical situation

Last night I m watching BBC where Spanish Ex President explain his thought about Spain bombing.
In his explanation he said the opposition party and their beloved personal of that time were created that tragic event with using some Islamist individual.

But we should find out why/who are creating those critical situation and we should try our level best to stop those thing which are creating very critical situations and tensions.


In other words
Does it have any relation to Palestine and Israeli invades?
Does it give right to Israel to terrorize Palestine and others right?

Those tragic events happened recently.
Israel was terrorizing Palestine and others right last 30 to 40 yrs. And it had no connection to Israeli

format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou

You are so quick to be outraged when Kafirs defend themselves. Why are you silent when kafirs die? How many of your words in the above could be said about some or all of your Brothers and Sisters?

Ur comment is not right
There are lot of condemn from the member of this forum when any unlawful die was happing.

Let me remind u this is an Islamic forum, people here prefer to talk about more on Muslim /Islamic subject and their right.
Does u find any non Muslim’s forum talking for the right of Muslim?
U should post there why they are not talking for the right of Muslims

when Kafirs defend themselves

I post it earlier
Invading mean attacking
Why u call them defending

Give me a single picture that a single Muslim country is invading any Kafirs country

But I can give u huge evidence and example that
Quite a lot Muslim country facing continuing attack from Kafirs country
They are attacking Muslim country politically.
They are attacking Muslim country economically.
They are attacking Muslim country militarily.

They are attacking Muslim country physically and mentally HeiGou.

Their continuing attack to Muslims is indeed the main cause of lot of those tragic events to be happened.

Their continuing attacking/invading creating critical situation/tension which implement some very bad thing/events to be happened. Their act fueling some of the defender to think they have nothing to gain expects looses.

Some of them cannot bear the suffer/pain/great loss and chose to die. Painful isn’t it. It’s indeed painful for all sectors of the people of the world.

U should blame those who are the real mastermind.

U cannot call the survivors attacker
Attacking survivors never stop them reacting.

If u really want peace
U has do one thing first
Stop the invaders and their attacks.

Pls broad ur realization and don’t dance with their (invaders) explanation.

format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou

I am not making War.

After reading ur post; well
I m not sure what u really want 2 make

format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou

I think that people want to kill me and I think I have a right to defend myself. What is wrong with that? And if it comes down to it, regardless of the many injustices commited in Israel, if an Israeli defeat only makes it more likely that I will be killed by the sort of people who are enemies of Israel, I will oppose an Israeli defeat. I never thought that Israel's fight was my fight, but it clearly is.

The definitions defend explained.

HeiGou why u donot reply Earlier posts
do u skip that

format_quote Originally Posted by i_m_tipu

Surely some individual’s act is very shameful.
Not all of them are Muslim
Lot of kaffir involvement also there.
Surely some individual’s tiring to take advantage of critical situation

This is precisely the problem. So many posters around here are so quick to condemn kafirs for the slightest crime but when it comes to Muslims - look what you are doing - you're blaming the kafirs. No, it is not the case that some individual's acts are very shameful. It is that an entire communities indifference, complaitency and inaction is shameful. A particular community produced those bombers and failed to teach them it was wrong. That community did not condemn those sorts of actions before the bombing or at least not clearly enough to prevent them. That community has declined to help the police to any noticeable degree and continues to live in denial. To me this is worse than the bombing.

Last night I m watching BBC where Spanish Ex President explain his thought about Spain bombing.
In his explanation he said the opposition party and their beloved personal of that time were created that tragic event with using some Islamist individual.

No he did not. He said that it was ETA - not Muslims. For which the Spanish voters punished him. Where do you find these absurd stories?

But we should find out why/who are creating those critical situation and we should try our level best to stop those thing which are creating very critical situations and tensions.

Totally. And by "we" you mean of course "the Muslim community"?

In other words
Does it have any relation to Palestine and Israeli invades?
Does it give right to Israel to terrorize Palestine and others right?

Of course here comes the blame game again. Nothing to do with Muslims. All the kafir's fault. As if I could not have guessed. It has nothing to do with Israel and even if it did, that would not justify the bombing. Your effort to shift the blame from the bombers to me is frankly appalling.

Ur comment is not right
There are lot of condemn from the member of this forum when any unlawful die was happing.

MY comment is right and no, there is not a lot of condemnation around here when such things happen. Basayev dies and people mourn him like he was a hero. Zarqawi dies and people around here cry.

Let me remind u this is an Islamic forum, people here prefer to talk about more on Muslim /Islamic subject and their right.
Does u find any non Muslim’s forum talking for the right of Muslim?
U should post there why they are not talking for the right of Muslims

And yet how Muslims relate to other people, especially via the medium of bomb vests, has an Islamic context and such things are discussed. On any non-Muslim Western forum you will find people discussing the rights of Muslims. No one in the West denies the rights of Muslims. This is the main difference between you and us kafirs - we think things are wrong if they are done to people, not just to kafirs.

Invading mean attacking
Why u call them defending

Because I am not talking about attacking, I am talking about kafirs defending themselves. No doubt to you, like to most Muslims, every time Muslims invade a non-Muslim country that is Muslim defending themselves, not kafirs doing so, but to the rest of us even kafirs have a right to self defence.

Give me a single picture that a single Muslim country is invading any Kafirs country

India. Southern Sudan. Nigeria. Dagestan.

But I can give u huge evidence and example that
Quite a lot Muslim country facing continuing attack from Kafirs country

Really? Which ones?

They are attacking Muslim country politically.
They are attacking Muslim country economically.
They are attacking Muslim country militarily.

They are attacking Muslim country physically and mentally HeiGou.

No. This too is the problem - too many Muslims have this insane paranoia about the state of the world. No one attacking that many Muslim countries in any sense of the word and when they do so they usually do so in self defence. There can be no peaceful co-existence with people who display this level of hatred. After all no one is attacking Muslims politically or economically worth mentioning.

Their continuing attack to Muslims is indeed the main cause of lot of those tragic events to be happened.

As such attacks do not exist except in the mind of some Muslims you are wrong. The problem is the hatred in the hearts of too many Muslims. Nothing to do with me at all.

Their continuing attacking/invading creating critical situation/tension which implement some very bad thing/events to be happened. Their act fueling some of the defender to think they have nothing to gain expects looses.

This is a claim I reject utterly. Again the problem is that you hate us so much you're inventing spurious claims to justify your hatred and, I assume, provoking violence.

Some of them cannot bear the suffer/pain/great loss and chose to die. Painful isn’t it. It’s indeed painful for all sectors of the people of the world.

Again it is not the suffering people who did this - it was middle class British Muslims. The problem is the hatred in parts of the Muslim community like a festering sore full of pus. Drain that poison and the problem goes away or can be solved. But nothing we kafirs can do can stop people who want to hate from hating. Justify terrorism all you like, the problem is entirely yours and not mine.

U should blame those who are the real mastermind.

U cannot call the survivors attacker
Attacking survivors never stop them reacting.

Again more blame-shifting - the fault is not mine, it is the bombers. The real masterminds are to blame - and they sit in countries like Pakistan. The survivors of 7-7 are not attackers, I agree, and you ought to stop calling them that. We, the survivors, have yet to react but if you insist on a Clash of Civilisations it will come.

If u really want peace
U has do one thing first
Stop the invaders and their attacks.

No. There is no point. The problem is irrational hatred. It exists and will exist whether there are attacks or not. The haters must be killed. There is no other way to deal with them. They have no rational motives.

format_quote Originally Posted by nennar

again! heigou! you are in a wrong forum!.........

I have to say I am coming to agree with you although it is interesting that you think that it is wrong to force a Muslim to listen to someone who disagrees with them.

all you can do is blame muslims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its not the jews its notchristians...... the evil people is the muslims????????????? you are so so so so blind

I do blame Israelis for many things. I am less interested in blaming them than I used to be, but I do from time to time. When they deserve it. But it is not Jewish people who behead hostages and put the video on the internet. It is not Christians who blow themselves up on the Tube. I do not notice any kafirs around here justifying terrorism. It is not that Muslims are evil people. It is just that so many evil people are Muslims.

I am blind? Bring me an example of injustice and I will condemn it. You can't even bring yourself to condemn any Muslim for anything.