Muslims ask Pope and Christians to look at their history of violence

**glo** · 09-26-2006

Pope Benedict XVI has told diplomats from Islamic countries that the peace of the world relies upon them learning to respect one another, to discuss differences constructively, and to recognise the call within both faiths to reject violence decisively.

In response, Muslim scholars have called for a reassessment of the past, and for the churches to face up to their own history of violence in a frank re-assessment of the historical relations between the two faiths.
[...]

"I should like to reiterate today all the esteem and the profound respect that I have for Muslim believers," Pope Benedict told the ambassadors of Islamic countries accredited to the Holy See, as well as representatives of various Muslim communities in Italy.
[...]

Pope Benedict XVI's reference to dark aspects in Islam's history also opened up fresh examinations of its own past as conqueror, inquisitor and patron of missionaries whose zeal sometimes led to harsh actions against those of other faiths, points out Brian Murphy of Associated Press.

Many Islamic leaders have appealed, in turn, for onlookers not to judge their faith's nearly 1,400-year history solely by modern calls for ‘holy war’, which they say is a clear distortion of the Qur’an’s teaching about jihad as a spiritual struggle, and Muslim rage over Benedict's 12 September speech in Germany

Full article: http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/ne...0926pope.shtml

Peace

**snakelegs** · 09-26-2006

makes sense to me.
most christians i've known don't know anything about the history of their religion.
i guess nobody's history is really pretty once you start to dig.

**Keltoi** · 09-26-2006

The issue isn't what Christians did in 1095 or during the Spanish Inquisition. Christianity has undergone major reforms in the past 200 years or more. The Catholic Church no longer has the power it once had, and is now dealing with what it should have been dealing with from the start, which is spiritual aid and comfort to Catholics worldwide. I'm not a Catholic, so I'm sure there are many things the church does that I'm not aware of. However, the ability to make war isn't one of them.

**Hijrah** · 09-26-2006

I say who cares who's history is what, I don't care if Christians tried committing global genocide, if something is nt part of someone's religion, it just isn't bottom line. I' sick of the argument of which religious group has done worse, bla bla bla...

**Quruxbadaan** · 09-26-2006

agreed ^^^^^^^^^^

**sacred_rose** · 09-26-2006

i agree with hijra its also about wats happening now i understand that we do have our differences but thats where agree to disagree comes in

**Woodrow** · 09-26-2006

We all have ancestors that did not act in accordance with our beliefs. If we have a little knowledge we should have the ability to learn from the errors of our ancestors and not repeat the errors. History does not have to be repeated.

**sacred_rose** · 09-26-2006

history always has a way of repeating itself because there are stupid ppl out there. but if ppl had common sense then they would know thats its wrong and not right and eventually they will cause mayhem

**duskiness** · 09-27-2006

Thats the text of JP2 apology on March 12, 2000:

Let us forgive and ask forgiveness! While we praise God who, in his merciful love, has produced in the Church a wonderful harvest of holiness, missionary zeal, total dedication to Christ and neighbour, we cannot fail to recognize the infidelities to the Gospel committed by some of our brethren, especially during the second millennium. Let us ask pardon for the divisions which have occurred among Christians, for the violence some have used in the service of the truth and for the distrustful and hostile attitudes sometimes taken towards the followers of other religions.

Let us confess, even more, our responsibilities as Christians for the evils of today. We must ask ourselves what our responsibilities are regarding atheism, religious indifference, secularism, ethical relativism, the violations of the right to life, disregard for the poor in many countries.

We humbly ask forgiveness for the part which each of us has had in these evils by our own actions, thus helping to disfigure the face of the Church.

At the same time, as we confess our sins, let us forgive the sins committed by others against us.

I have 2 questions:
what would you as a Muslim want Christian to do about our sins/crimes in the past?
what do you - as a Muslim - want to do about Muslims sins/crimes agains other?
n.

**sacred_rose** · 09-27-2006

i dont care about wat happened in the past it happened and we cant change that but we cand change the present and the future and thats wat counts i think everyone would agree that we all hate terrorism and extremist from any religion whether it be muslims, christians, catholics or hinduism

i rekon we should put the past away and look forward to today and tommorow because we now have this life to change the world and the way it thinks.

**MTAFFI** · 09-27-2006

Originally Posted by Hijrah

I say who cares who's history is what, I don't care if Christians tried committing global genocide, if something is nt part of someone's religion, it just isn't bottom line. I' sick of the argument of which religious group has done worse, bla bla bla...

that really might be one of the smarter things i have read on this site. The past is the past, especially when the past goes back as far as religions do. The issue is today, get over the last 3000 years

**glo** · 09-27-2006

Welcome MTAFFI.

I agree to some extend, but I do think it is important to remember and learn from the mistakes of the past.
(Having said that, it's best done looking humbly at your own actions, rather than pointing at and criticising the actions of others ... the latter just tends to stir up old animosities)

Peace

**snakelegs** · 09-27-2006

Originally Posted by glo

Welcome MTAFFI.

(Having said that, it's best done looking humbly at your own actions, rather than pointing at and criticising the actions of others ... the latter just tends to stir up old animosities)

Peace

yes! i agree completely. but it is always so much easier to criticize somebody else than clean up our own house.

**Hijrah** · 09-27-2006

The issue IS today, however, that isn't a reason to slander Islam for the Fitnah caused by some people.

**glo** · 09-27-2006

Originally Posted by snakelegs

yes! i agree completely. but it is always so much easier to criticize somebody else than clean up our own house.

True!
It's also much less painful to criticise others for their actions, rather than scrutinise your own ...

However, this spring to mind:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" (Luke 6:41)

Good old Jesus - he hits where it hurts every time!

**sharvy** · 09-30-2006

IMHO if (as he claimed) the Pope's principal goal was to discuss reason, religion, and violence - his quote (from the Byzantine emperor) was ill-chosen and counterproductive. It was gratuitously provocative and insulting to Muslims. If he wanted to discuss Ayat al-Sayf (the Verse of the Sword), fine, then do so directly. I suspect the Pope knew what he was doing and is (misguidedly) trying to promote and rally a sense of European Christian identity against what the Pope sees as an Islamic attack on basic Western or Christian values - especially in Europe.

I just wish that Muslims worldwide would take to the streets and protest Muslim produced insults to Islam with the _same passion_ that they protest Western produced insults to Islam. On the first day of Ramadan last year, a Sunni suicide bomber blew up a Shiite mosque in Hilla Iraq, killing 25 worshippers. Where was the outrage and protest then? Is that less of an insult to Islam than the Pope's speech or the Danish cartoons? This is just one example of a whole pattern of such outrages that are happening daily. Yes there are American outrages too; but there are also Americans on the streets passionately protesting these outrages. There is real political action by Westerners against their leaders. Where is the comparable scope of European and North American (let alone Pakistani) Muslim political reaction and protest to Muslim produced insults against Islam?

Sharvy