What if, by January 2004, the United States had successfully captured, tried, and executed Saddam Hussein, defeated the entire Iraqi resistance?
Had that happened, how would today -- 10/28/2006 -- look? Would it be the same, or be slightly or greatly different? And what would the Middle East change -- focus especially on Iran and Syria here.
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
What if, by January 2004, the United States had successfully captured, tried, and executed Saddam Hussein, defeated the entire Iraqi resistance?
Had that happened, how would today -- 10/28/2006 -- look? Would it be the same, or be slightly or greatly different? And what would the Middle East change -- focus especially on Iran and Syria here.
I think, regardless of the military situation, there would be a Shiite coalition in power in Iraq, which would probably be fairly friendly towards Iran. This might not have been to the liking of the US, but as long as both the US public and the Shiites would insist on democratic rule and elections the results could not be much different.
I think, regardless of the military situation, there would be a Shiite coalition in power in Iraq, which would probably be fairly friendly towards Iran. This might not have been to the liking of the US, but as long as both the US public and the Shiites would insist on democratic rule and elections the results could not be much different.
I'd go along with that. I suspect that's where it will end up anyway, after a lot more bloodshed. The post-war bloodshed in Iraq has been caused by an assortment of groups with their own interests willing to use violence to achieve them and establish a power base in the 'new' Iraq. Some of those groups are pragmatic enough to co-operate on occasion if it is in their mutual best interests but the idea of some united "resistance" in Iraq is a total fantasy and always has been. They aren't bothered who that violence is against, it could be and has been against Coalition forces, Iraqi security forces and indeed each other.
these are all the faults of al qidea and other groups, and not the military in general, but if bush wasn't there, none of this would have ever happened.
how is america loosing this war? with all of these deaths.. this is definetely a bloody war.
these are all the faults of al qidea and other groups, and not the military in general, but if bush wasn't there, none of this would have ever happened.
how is america loosing this war? with all of these deaths.. this is definetely a bloody war.
This is not the fault of Al Qaeda. The USA INTENTIONALLY BOMBED FALLUJAH KNOWING OF THE CIVILIAN COUNT. Over 150 mosques were destroyed. Thousands killed. Last i recall the insurgency groups and al qaeda did not fly high and bomb them like the coalition troops. Dont try to be slick and make the blame among everyone. It is the US fault, dont try to share the complete blame with the insurgency.
They'd suddenly realise that they are the biggest bunch of loosers ever.
There are some victories which are sort of pre-programmed by Allah to be a loose. So who fights to win stands out as the bad guy for everybody else to beware of.
But that doesn't mean to say that every loosing game plan will will; just that the winning game plans loose in the long run. Everybody knows that, don't they, or is that just Aussie Indigenous culture (uh oh, now maybe I'm in trouble for spilling beans)?
But its really important! If your win is true then you are always loosing to Allah; so every win is a loose. A few loosing streaks turn into the victory only because in Allah we are all Judged ultimately. Be meek dudes.
waram
Within the Realm of King Solomon
Who could have known I was home grown
An accuser's false allegation
Did warrant only my Nation in apology for inconveniences
its shaytan leeches
who accuse
my unconscious sleep
of accusing you too cheep
I will be selling for five times three
centsiblity
these are all the faults of al qidea and other groups, and not the military in general, but if bush wasn't there, none of this would have ever happened.
how is america loosing this war? with all of these deaths.. this is definetely a bloody war.
i don't get your point by bringing up al qaeda blah. and what other groups did you mention there?
people loves to point al qaeda as the invisible culprit. how long will this happen? would they be also blamed for the killed whales, tortured walrus or an earthquake?
to you your religion and to me my religion
may we all learn on our chosen paths, and in all things, blessed be
the patients sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because the dentists stand ready to do violence on their behalf
My own suspicion is that it would be very similar to what it is today. The differnce is Saddam would have been executed by now. His Government would have been overthrown and there would be fighting over who will control the country.
I do not know if there would be less or fewer innocent deaths. But I believe it would be less and it definetly be be a lot less American and British Deaths.
The U.S. "winning" in Iraq is dependant on the Iraqi people, not the U.S. When the citizens begin to believe that this government they elected is stable and not going to fall apart, then more Iraqis will be willing to openly and actively support it.
i don't get your point by bringing up al qaeda blah. and what other groups did you mention there?
people loves to point al qaeda as the invisible culprit. how long will this happen? would they be also blamed for the killed whales, tortured walrus or an earthquake?
I think people got it into their head that anyone fighting against crusaders are consequently termed al-qaeda, and anyone taking the crusaders as protectors and freinds or not fighting them (because they are not able too for some reason) are peaceful people.
Who know's anyone who probably voice against it and support the resistance vocally probably be considered al-qaeda.
I suppose it make's most of the members in this forum al-qaeda. I simply don't care what they choose to label, it just a means to do so for political reason, and stir up/or silent the ignorant herd.
I personaly think resistance should go on, and I suggest people look into the Quran and the sunnah for doing so, and should be in accordance with it as best as possible.
Last edited by Skillganon; 11-03-2006 at 11:12 PM.
No WMD's, Bin Laden, or even competent replacements for Saddam.
If you see unchecked goals as success, than Iraq is one of them, so was WW2 for the Germans, and my last driving exam for me (which I failed).
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
No WMD's, Bin Laden, or even competent replacements for Saddam.
If you see unchecked goals as success, than Iraq is one of them, so was WW2 for the Germans, and my last driving exam for me (which I failed).
If you are referring to the Iraq War, that was over years ago. The stated objective, which was the end of the Saddam regime, was accomplished. The problem is that there wasn't a stated objective or a plan for the post-war situation. I'm not sure what Bin Laden has to do with the Iraq War though.
'Resistance' against what? There is no 'resistance'. What is happening in Iraq is sectarian violence with assorted interest groups, some religiously motivated (of both Shi'a and Sunni varieties), some politically motivated, many of which are at each other's throats. The Iraqi government and US/coalition troops are just two (allied - sort of) factions amongst many factions.
The whole thing is huge mess, for which both the Americans and Iraqis themselves are responsible for, but what you want to 'go on' is mindless, pointless, unnecessary death and bloodshed which has nothing to do with 'resistance' or 'Muhajadeen', or Islam. The more people who actually face up to what isactually happening rather than clinging to fantasies about it the more likely it actually is to stop, in compromise and peace not 'victory' for anybody.
'Resistance' against what? There is no 'resistance'. What is happening in Iraq is sectarian violence with assorted interest groups, some religiously motivated (of both Shi'a and Sunni varieties), some politically motivated, many of which are at each other's throats. The Iraqi government and US/coalition troops are just two (allied - sort of) factions amongst many factions.
Resistance against the crusaders and the one who take them(Crusaders) as Guardian and protectors, the crusader institute goverment.
Contrary to your politically flavoured words such as peace, humanity e.t.c.
The sectarian violence is just what crusaders favored as possible alternative i.e. united confrontation to the allied troops.
I really do not believe the old mens that sit's in the parliament or the fundies in washington did it out of the goodness of their heart or out of love for Islam(Muslims)
The whole thing is huge mess, for which both the Americans and Iraqis themselves are responsible for, but what you want to 'go on' is mindless, pointless, unnecessary death and bloodshed which has nothing to do with 'resistance' or 'Muhajadeen', or Islam. The more people who actually face up to what isactually happening rather than clinging to fantasies about it the more likely it actually is to stop, in compromise and peace not 'victory' for anybody.
Well much could of been ovoided if the gun blazing american's, did not excercise the millitary might on a already desolate land that where in the brink financial instability by the countless sanction that supposedly restrict their old-freind from being a threat because he fell out of favour.
I will cling to my fantasies whatever you wan't to call it, and part of it involves the allied troops loosing/leaving. I am sure they are main part of the problem. Never doubted that, and I expected much what is happening today from the the initial conception of such Mighty bravado by the american-allied regime.
Anyway aslong at it has to do with Muslims it is everything got to do with Islam, and me.
'Resistance' against what? There is no 'resistance'. What is happening in Iraq is sectarian violence with assorted interest groups, some religiously motivated (of both Shi'a and Sunni varieties), some politically motivated, many of which are at each other's throats. The Iraqi government and US/coalition troops are just two (allied - sort of) factions amongst many factions.
The whole thing is huge mess, for which both the Americans and Iraqis themselves are responsible for, but what you want to 'go on' is mindless, pointless, unnecessary death and bloodshed which has nothing to do with 'resistance' or 'Muhajadeen', or Islam. The more people who actually face up to what isactually happening rather than clinging to fantasies about it the more likely it actually is to stop, in compromise and peace not 'victory' for anybody.
Obviously , you dont know the politics or the real situation in Iraq. The current sunni areas are united under Sharia. There are 2 shiite groups, 1 accepts the american involvment, 1 does not. Thats the truth, thats whats happening. The sunnis have taken baghdad and all will soon InshAllah come to them.
The situation in Iraq is much more complicated than anything that has been suggested here. It is complicated to the point that even those that are there and involved don't understand the full scope of the problem. I am not sure anybody does.
The situation in Iraq is much more complicated than anything that has been suggested here. It is complicated to the point that even those that are there and involved don't understand the full scope of the problem. I am not sure anybody does.
No you make it complicated then it is.
There is a SUNNI ISLAMIC STATE established in the sunni areas.The center of the Islamic State is in Baghdad There are 2 groups of Shiite surgency. 1 Goes with the Americans, the other does not. Thats how simple it is. I dont know what you cant understand? How much more clarification do you need? And Offcourse this is a full scale Invasion by the USA.
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What if the United States won the Iraq War?
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