Should the Taliban....???

^^ i saw that too. And i cant say anything since God knows who did what. Like bro Woodrow said, i wasnt there. So i cant vote either way.

format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786

brother, you need to make out your points clearly. I started this thread cuz of all the things that my family has experienced. I didn't make out all this from the back of my head. I'm not saying that the Americans are the right choice for Afghanistan. I don't think neither Taliban nor America are right for Afghanistan. They should leave the poor country alone to itself. The Taliban were there to capture the land, but they fooled people by saying that Afghans weren't following the shariah and that they were intending to straighten things out. It is none of their business. LEAVE THE COUNTRY ALONE. Is that so hard? And once again, I'm very happy that Afghanistan is free from the Taliban's torture. I just hope that there will be a day where America can leave them alone to.

And one more thing bro, have u seen or witnessed anything?, cuz if you did then it will let us know that your talking from experience. If you have not then why bother arguing about it.

Point taken. I have no affiliation with afghan, nor care about a piece of Land but I do care about muslim and Islam. Bear in mind that taking the america as their freind, considering their past and current interest in the middle-east and nearly most muslim majority country, is a bad and poor choice. a choice that will not take well with other muslims.

As far as I am concerned the current goverment is one of them and they have fooled you too, I am sure they will serve their interest willingly.

I am not saying that America is a good choice for Afghanistan. I'm just saying that I'm happy that the Taliban are no longer there cuz of the torture, but I am not at all happy about the fact that America is now there. But a country has a right to govern itself, whether their governing by the Islamic shariah or not. If Allah does not will, even all the Muslim countries put together can't make them govern by the shariah. But if Allah does want Afghanistan to be governed by the shariah, it will happen in a way in which will be beyond our knowledge.

my question, since the first post, was, "Were the Taliban the right choice for Afghanistan, and Why?". I just wanted to know what the other member's opinions are and why they taught that specific way. This thread is going a different way, and let's not include America in here cuz it's causing us to talk about 2 things at a time and making it difficult to state out points. Let's just resolve the first question right now.

format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786

If Allah does not will, even all the Muslim countries put together can't make them govern by the shariah. But if Allah does want Afghanistan to be governed by the shariah, it will happen in a way in which will be beyond our knowledge.

.

Hear Hear!

Hukemè Ander Sab ko Bahar Hukam Na Koè. (Guru Nanak)

(Everything is subject to His Command; Nothing is beyond His Command)

format_quote Originally Posted by rav

All the women here voting yes should remember that if they were living under the Taliban they would not even be able to communicate on this forum because the Taliban outlawed females going to school, and therefore, all you women would not know how to write, read or do anything except serve men.

at least someone understands....some of our brothers here need to go over the Islamic shariah, find out what type of people the Taliban really were, and then come back to the forum and state your new thoughts on this matter (if your thoughts do change)

Skillgannon
Study Islam first.

Agreed, since this is a Islamic website, take out a pen and paper and start studying brother.

habiibti
I dont see why anyone muslim would oppose to be ruled by Allahs sharia.

I do not believe that any would Muslim would not mind to live by Allah (swt) rule, I would, but again I would also like to have a ruler who knows what he's reciting while he's praying, and also know what he's doing by his actions.

habiibti
Yeah maybe da taliban werent perfect but look at afghanistan now?

Yeah, "da" Taliban were not perfect, but look at Afghanistan back then, when they were in power, how they rule?by fear, the same way Saddam did, and if you looked at them...well, one can only imagine.

Skillgannon
That's what you read mostly. For example an idiots does something wrong and it becomes the taliban. You have to ask yourself is it better to choose between the believers than the unbelievers.
How so? There have been testimonies from people who have lived
there, and know what its like. From a person who lives in the west gets his education in the west, then by all means, pack up and leave. What difference would it make from the leaders in the M.E.? the only thing would be of there faith, that they are muslims, what about the house of Saud? Musharraf in pakistan? Mobarak in Egypt? the Secularists in Turkey? U.A.E? Jordan?.

Skillgannon
Go back to studying Islam read the Quran first, read the seerah of our prophets & shahabah and you will get a better Idea.

I hope your learning a whole lot.

Keltoi
I notice that most people who seem to think the Taliban were so good for Afghanistan live in the West and have never lived under a medieval fundamentalist regime such as the Taliban.

Agreed, I mean you really can't blame them, they've never really been there and they take the word of others who most likely have never been there.

keltoi
I based my vote on what the people of Afghanistan believe, and they overwhelmingly oppose any return to a Taliban like state of affairs.

Having a Shariah based system of Law is not the problem the Taliban poorly executed it to the extent of sheer stupidity.

keltoi

Of course the situation isn't perfect, and many Afghans have voiced their concerns that Afghanistan is more dangerous for people than it was in the past, but of course it is the Taliban who have made it so.

And thanks to the many Mullahs in Eastern pakistan and to its government for funding them...

Skillgannon
I have no affiliation with afghan, nor care about a piece of Land

Then why is it that you like to speak for them as if they do not know?

skillgannon
but I do care about muslim and Islam.

I hear that the Chechens, Fatah, Hamas, Talibs, and Al-Qaeda who also care for Muslims and Islam and are hiring, the pay ain't bad either, just think about it as a career option...

skillgannon
Bear in mind that taking the america as their freind, considering their past and current interest in the middle-east and nearly most muslim majority country, is a bad and poor choice.

See above repsonse.

Skillgannon
a choice that will not take well with other muslims.

Maybe if they stopped slaving for the Dollar, but of course, Muslims should worry about other muslims fighting within themselves, of course this has been happening for centuries.

skillgannon
As far as I am concerned the current goverment is one of them and they have fooled you too, I am sure they will serve their interest willingly.

okay wait, wait, wait, watch how I spin this...

skillgannon
As far as I am concerned the former goverment is one of them and they have fooled you too, I am sure they will serve their interest willingly.

No one is saying the current government is their savior, if anybody knows anything about UNOCAL and the lot then they know.



I voted No. I do not wish to have Tribal rule, with a side of Shariah, and a enormous amount of Hypocrasy on top.

I'll say this again since the last two times I've said it, I haven't gotten a response for it, where in Shariah laws is it permissable to tie up a body behind a moving vehicle while chanting "Allahu Akbar" where is this justifiable in Shariah Law?


"The policy of the Taliban is to
exterminate the Hazaras"

Maulawi Mohammed Hanif, Taliban
Commander
Announcing their policy to a crowd of 300
people summoned to a mosque [after killing
15,000 Hazaras people in a day]

" Hazaras are not Muslim. You can kill them.
It is not a sin."

Mullah Manon Niazi
Governor of Mazar-e Sharif
Speaking to a crowd in a mosque after the
fall of mazar city

" We do not need women to work. What
positive roles can they play in the
society? What is the impact of their roles? We do
not need women. They should stay in
their houses"

Mullah Manon Niazi.
Taliban leader and appointed
Governor of Mazar-e Sharif

"The use of opium is wrong, but the selling
is not wrong according to Islamic law"

Mullah Omar - the Taliban Supreme Leader
[ In reality, Islam forbids both the use of
and selling of any type of illegal drugs,
including opium ]





MASJID AL-EJABAH

This is situated near Ansar Hospital. As mentioned in Muslim, the Prophet (SAS) and his Companions offered two rakat salat in this Masjid.The Prophet (SAS) made a very long supplication or dua after salat. The Prophet (SAS) said to his Companions,

“I requested three things from Allah (SWT) during this dua. First two are granted and the third one is rejected.

First of all, I requested Allah (SWT) not to destroy my Ummah with famine or draught. Secondly, please do not destroy my Ummah by drowning.

Thirdly, my Ummah be saved from fighting among themselves."

"The policy of the Taliban is to
exterminate the Hazaras"
Maulawi Mohammed Hanif, Taliban
Commander
Announcing their policy to a crowd of 300
people summoned to a mosque [after killing
15,000 Hazaras people in a day]


" Hazaras are not Muslim. You can kill them.
It is not a sin."
Mullah Manon Niazi
Governor of Mazar-e Sharif
Speaking to a crowd in a mosque after the
fall of mazar city

" We do not need women to work. What
positive roles can they play in the
society? What is the impact of their roles? We do
not need women. They should stay in
their houses"

Mullah Manon Niazi.
Taliban leader and appointed
Governor of Mazar-e Sharif

"The use of opium is wrong, but the selling
is not wrong according to Islamic law"
Mullah Omar - the Taliban Supreme Leader
[ In reality, Islam forbids both the use of
and selling of any type of illegal drugs,
including opium ]

Did they really say that, wow, where did you get this exactly?! SMH @ the idea that Hazaras can not be Muslim, the last one is very shocking as well, it is well known that the buying, selling or use of anything haraam is illegal by Islamic law

format_quote Originally Posted by Hijrah

the last one is very shocking as well, it is well known that the buying, selling or use of anything haraam is illegal by Islamic law

No its not, Mullah Omar is the Supreme Ruler, thus making it Halal, dear brother you do not know Shariah by making such statements.

Erundur
No its not, Mullah Omar is the Supreme Ruler, thus making it Halal, dear brother you do not know Shariah by making such statements.

lol..nice way of putting it...

Erundur
I'll say this again since the last two times I've said it, I haven't gotten a response for it, where in Shariah laws is it permissable to tie up a body behind a moving vehicle while chanting "Allahu Akbar" where is this justifiable in Shariah Law?

This is what I have been trying to say, brother Erundur, and some of the members who have voted yes, they keep going on with their side of the story. In Islam, it is haram to judge from one side. Were there any advantages when the Taliban were ruling?
Answer: No. And if there are (which I doubt), please mention them.

No matter how much some of the members here, like brother skillgannon, repeat that the Taliban ruled under the Islamic shariah, it's not true. After I said so much in my other posts, Brother Erundur finally gave good examples. I don't know how to show you the proof of all that my family has been through, but all I know is that everything that has happened to them and all the other afghans are true. I just wish those who are voting yes could actually give us some good points and proofs of how the Taliban were good rulers who were following the Islamic shariah.

format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786

No matter how much some of the members here, like brother skillgannon, repeat that the Taliban ruled under the Islamic shariah, it's not true. After I said so much in my other posts, Brother Erundur finally gave good examples. I don't know how to show you the proof of all that my family has been through, but all I know is that everything that has happened to them and all the other afghans are true. I just wish those who are voting yes could actually give us some good points and proofs of how the Taliban were good rulers who were following the Islamic shariah.

Sis, when did I said that the Taliban where ruling wholely and correctly under shariah? (if indeed they were trying implement something as such)
Please do not attribute something to me so willingly.

Now can the current afghan gov are willingly to implement shariah, and take the advice of the Quran in the worldy relation?

My problem does not come because the afghan rejected the Taliban, but what they embraced.
It's a poor choice.

Now don't complain about the poll, when you put a yes/no option with little choice. People might very well voted Yes because you limited their option (choice).

Skillganon
Now don't complain about the poll, when you put a yes/no option with little choice. People might very well voted Yes because you limited their option (choice).

If you haven't noticed brother, there is a "I don't know" choice also.
And you keep saying that it's better to have the Taliban there than the Americans because the Taliban were Muslim and could have, more or less, been following the shariah. The Taliban didn't follow the shariah for any matter. If you think they did, then please state some examples so we can all know.

The only reason they embraced the coming of the Americans was because they were free from the Taliban's unjust rules.

format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy

"The use of opium is wrong, but the selling
is not wrong according to Islamic law"
Mullah Omar - the Taliban Supreme Leader
[ In reality, Islam forbids both the use of
and selling of any type of illegal drugs,
including opium ]

Was it not Mullah Omar and taliban that destoryed all the drugs in afganistan?? Where did you get these statements from???? I refuse to take your word unless proven.

Okay.

Taliban and Drugs
Despite its remote location and relatively small population of 23 million, Afghanistan is a major producer and exporter of heroin and is strategically important to countries such as Russia, Iran, Pakistan and the United States. CNN news sources estimates an annual export of $80 billion worth of heroin from Afghanistan where the Taliban are virtually controlling about 95% of Afghanistan. The United States government has cast a blind eye in response to the massacre of ethnic minorities in Afghanistan by the Taliban. One of the main reason being that the US government has struggled to resist a massive heroin influx from Afghanistan, and the Taliban have been less hostile to the U.S. then the preceding Afghan governments.


UNDCP conducts, with the approval of the local authorities, an annual ground-based survey, during which surveyors visit all the areas where opium poppy cultivation has been reported. Using a census methodology, they record the extent of opium grown in each region, opium yields and farmgate prices.

For more information contact: Sandro Tucci, Spokesperson, ODCCP Vienna; Telephone: 0043-1-26060 ext. 5629/4116/Fax: 0043-1-26060 ext.5875

UNDCP survey of drugs in Afghanistan - 1999

• Afghanistan's total production of raw opium for 1999 was estimated to be a record 4,600 metric tons, according to the findings of the United Nations International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP) Annual Opium Survey. This is more than double the estimated production of 2,100 metric tons for 1998.
• areas under cultivation increased by 43 per cent from 64,000 hectares in 1998 to some 91,000 hectares in 1999; 97 per cent of cultivation in 1999 occurred in Taliban-controlled areas.
• Cultivation of opium poppy was reported for the first time in the Jawzjan and Kunduz provinces bringing the total number of provinces where opium is grown to 18 out of the 31 in Afghanistan. The number of districts where opium was grown in 1999 increased to 104 from 73 in 1998; 80 per cent of the districts surveyed during the previous growing season experienced an increase in opium poppy cultivation this year.
• Lower opium production was recorded in the Maiwand and Ghorak districts where the UNDCP is actively engaged in implementing an alternative development project. In these districts, as well as in the district of Khakrez, local authorities had reportedly eradicated 400 hectares of opium poppy in early June, following an agreement reached with UNDCP.
• The total estimated production of illicit opium for 1999 was about 6,000 metric tons, an increase of some 60 per cent over the total of 3,750 metric tons recorded in 1998. Afghanistan's share in 1999 accounts for 75 per cent of global output, an increase of almost 25 per cent with respect to 1998.

UNDCP survey of drugs in Afghanistan - 1996

• In a Survey done by Vienna-based United Nations International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP), points out that Afghanistan's current yield of 2,200 to 2,300 (3,400 tones in 1994 dropped down because of bad weather, and falling prices) tonnes of dry opium is almost equal to the combined estimated opium production in the "Golden Triangle" (Lao's People's Democratic Republic, Myanmar (former Burma) and Thailand). The continuing sizable production in both sub regions is seen as having a significant impact on the worldwide abuse and trafficking of heroin.
• Afghanistan has 55,000 to 58,000 hectares of opium poppy fields, with the provinces of Helmand and Nagarhar accounting for 73 % of the production. The estimated yield varies between 12 kilograms per hectare on rain-fed fields and 68 kilograms per hectare on the best irrigated fields, with a national average of 39.6 kilograms per hectare.
• The Taliban control nearly 95% of the area under opium poppy cultivation.

Times Asia

• According to United Nations, Afghanistan is currently the world's largest producer of illicit opiates, as well as the source of about 80% of Europe's heroin market and 15% to 20% of North America's.
• The opium and and heroin manufactured from opium is officially taxed by Taliban, and generates at least $20 million a year in revenue (note. from tax only). Taliban officials argue, poppy cultivation is an economic necessity for the war-ravaged country's desperately poor farmers.
• In 1997 the poppy cultivation increased to 28,000 , an increase of 29% more than in 1996.

Afghanistan Online

• The leader of the Taliban, Mullah Omar (whom the Taliban call "Amir-ul Momineen" – the supreme leader of all the faithful in the world e.g. like the Pope in Catholicism), stated that the use of opium is wrong, but the selling is not wrong according to Islamic law. In reality, Islam forbids both the use of and selling of any type of illegal drugs, including opium.
• Many of the Taliban are involved in this criminal trade. They include Haji Abdur Rahman Bakwalii from Nimroz, Mestiri Amrullah Helmandi, alias Mestiri Talib, Mullah Abdur Rahim Helmandi, Haji Bismillah Helmandi and Lal Mohammad, who serves as the Taliban commander in Nimroz province.
• Mullah Yarana, a main Taliban official, lives in the Pakistani border town of Chaman and is involved in processing and smuggling heroin to the United States and Europe through Iran and Turkmenistan. Mullah Yarana's headquarters is basically a den of drug smugglers.
  

Afghanistan Drug Survey
International Narcotics Control Strategy Report, 1998
Released by the Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs,
U.S.Department of State
Washington, DC, February 1999

I hope that helps.

skillgannon
when did I said that the Taliban where ruling wholely and correctly under shariah? (if indeed they were trying implement something as such)
Please do not attribute something to me so willingly.

I remember you saying this...

Study Islam first.

and...

Go back to studying Islam read the Quran first, read the seerah of our prophets & shahabah and you will get a better Idea.

So again, maybe you should you know...not attribute something so willingly.

Now can the current afghan gov are willingly to implement shariah, and take the advice of the Quran in the worldy relation?

No they can not, like every other government besides Iran cannot thanks to the backing of western leaders and the M.E. thirst for power, don't single one out.

My problem does not come because the afghan rejected the Taliban, but what they embraced. It's a poor choice.

You speak as if every Afghan enjoyed what they did, you have two Afghans here that opposed it, unless an Afghan is willing to come out and have a opposing view points you still have ours and the only people (majority) that approved of the Talibs were Pashtuns who lived in the south.

format_quote Originally Posted by al_imaan_786

If you haven't noticed brother, there is a "I don't know" choice also.
And you keep saying that it's better to have the Taliban there than the Americans because the Taliban were Muslim and could have, more or less, been following the shariah. The Taliban didn't follow the shariah for any matter. If you think they did, then please state some examples so we can all know.

Only if you can show me any state who implements the shariah fully and perfectly. This is not exactly about the Shariah, if it was just that than afghan has already failed by making the latter choice.

Why do you limit your choice between the Taliban and america?
because you percieved you have to choose between the two. No you don't have too. The Latter is worse than the former.

The only reason they embraced the coming of the Americans was because they were free from the Taliban's unjust rules.

Actually the only reason they embraced america is because you was given the choice between the two, and you choose the other because they promised you ultimately the security and wealth of this dunya (which is mainly out for their interest not yours), not to mention what they are doing in other part of the world.
You took the easy way out although it might aswell be more detrimental too the muslims.

The only way you can convince the muslims is by applying and desiring the shariah and rejecting the ones you embraced so readily out of thise geographical space called afghan.
Aslong as you embraced them as believers than you have a funny idea, that muslims in general will support them in their cause.

format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy

I am sorry brother i dont take that as solid prove because it comes from the infidels.

there are 3 or 4 different subjects that come from the Infidels in this forum that muslims are arguing for and praising but this is not solid evidence? Something that does not come as a favor is ultimately used as being false, get off your pedestal for a moment, there are numbers call'em.


whats "solid" proof then?

besides taht article came from an Afghan website.

Erundur
You speak as if every Afghan enjoyed what they did, you have two Afghans here that opposed it, unless an Afghan is willing to come out and have a opposing view points you still have ours and the only people (majority) that approved of the Talibs were Pashtuns who lived in the south.

The only reason the Taliban never did anything to the pashtuns were because the majority of the pashtuns were on the Taliban's side.

Only if you can show me any state who implements the shariah fully and perfectly. This is not exactly about the Shariah, if it was just that than afghan has already failed by making the latter choice.

really?

The only way you can convince the muslims is by applying and desiring the shariah.

Re-look at your argument.

No state has, every dynasty that Islam has built thanks to Allah (swt) had fallen because people had lost there way, but I guess its one of those things in which you have to see to believe.


The only way you can convince the muslims is by applying and desiring the shariah.

No one is denying the shariah, again its not shariah in Afghanistan but Tribal laws and customs, their Tribal laws and coustoms.

Intentions are one thing, but actions are another.