so many things are happening in pakistan - increasing taliban influence, nationalist/separatist demands, the sacking of the chief justice, the future of musharraf's dictatorship amidst increasing demands for democracy, the recent demonstrations/strikes, sectarian and ethnic violence, etc. etc.
i know there are a number of pakistanis here. would you share your "take" on what is happening and what you see as the likely future of pakistan, as well as what you would like to see happen in pakistan.
thanks!
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
there is no taleban influence in the country, false reports. There are Islamic parties that are stepping up their demand for the country to be more Islamic and stop selling alcohol, porn videos, and shut down brothels and other stuff like that. Pakistan used to have a pretty median society, but today we have seeing a divide at two ends. There is no middle ground anymore. Lot has stepped on modern side, so much that they would put modern countries to shame. And sadly this modernization is not in good things but all the bad habits they can get from other cultures. In return, there has been a strong demand to return to the conservative side and return to the basics of islam. So you have the country now being divided into two groups, secular extremists and Islamic conservatives.
musaraf is a dictator who is very unpopular with the people (except secular extremists). He’s under fire by the public and judicial courts to tell whereabouts of the people that are randomly picked up by the paki intelligency agency and disappear. These people include men women and children. Musharaf as also done lot of things that merit him as an unjust ruler that needs to be taken out of power. Only thing keeping him alive so far is the US security, the number of attempted attacks on him are too many count.
The chief justice was well known for speaking out the truth and going against the gov’t and what it said when it was wrong. he was sacked to find a more gov’t/musraf friendly judge. Just the fact majority of lawyers and judges backing up the chief justice shows who is right here. The bombing and shooting and city shut down in recent news is because of this. The MGM (musharaf political party) came out to protest for the gov’t when there was about to be a protest for the support of chief who was going to give a speech. The MQM started shooting and incited violence, secular extremists at your best.
A Pakistani retired general made a prediction statement last year. He said based on the trends and what is going on, lot of Muslims in Muslim countries are going towards Islam, they have experienced modernization and now they want to get back to islam. So we will see more Muslims and Muslim countries turning Islamic, whether the tyrants in power like it or not.
thanks for your reply. i hope other pakistanis will add their 2 cents too.
no, i am not on that forum - someone has stolen my name!
taliban influence is certainly spreading in the tribal areas and in frontier province. do you think that it is limited to there?
my impression is that almost nobody wants musharraf! i don't think it breaks down along religious-secular lines, do you? i know some secular types who would like to live in a democratic pakistan.
what percentage of pakistanis would you guess would like to see shariah and what percentage a secular democracy? (isn't this what jinnah wanted?)
i am assuming that you would either like a shariah gov't or a gov't that was more islamic, in any case? i don't think all secularists are secularist extemists. (like turkey)
do you think musharraf will impose martial law if these demonstrations continue?
what do you think about the nationalist/separtist demands? there is a lot of resentment against the central gov't.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
The recent violence in Karachi saw the murder of 41 people, and hundreds more injured. The cause of this agitation is the racist, terrorist MQM, which has been given free license by the Mush dictatorship to terrorize Karachi which supports the Chief Justice Chaudhry Iftikhar.
I would like to see only one thing in Pakistan, a REAL Islamic Revolution, one that will propel similar revolution throughout the Muslim world and lay the foundation for restoration of khilafat, insha Allah.
The recent violence in Karachi saw the murder of 41 people, and hundreds more injured. The cause of this agitation is the racist, terrorist MQM, which has been given free license by the Mush dictatorship to terrorize Karachi which supports the Chief Justice Chaudhry Iftikhar.
I would like to see only one thing in Pakistan, a REAL Islamic Revolution, one that will propel similar revolution throughout the Muslim world and lay the foundation for restoration of khilafat, insha Allah.
From a bro:
Assalaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullaah wa Barakaatuh,
Look at the obvious blatant lie ! A message found taped to one of the blown off legs of the alleged suicide bomber! Why would the suicide bomber tape a message to his leg? And, how did he know that the message would not be blown to pieces and destroyed in the explosion?
The fact is, like in Iraq, there is no suicide bomber involved. The explosion is caused by a bomb easily planted in the targeted area most likely by agents of the enemies of Islaam, to cause destruction, division, turmoil and strife among Muslims.
Now tie these two facts in this article together:
1. The bomb ripped through a crowded hotel restaurant in the northwestern city of Peshawar . 2. Peshawar is the capital of North WestFrontierProvince , a region bordering Afghanistan where pro-Taliban and al-Qaida-linked militants are active
Doesn't this clearly reveal the intention from planting the bomb in this area? To punish the Taliban, al-Qa3idah and those supporting them and/or to assassinate important mujahideen figures who may have frequented the restaurant.
So, they kill the dead and walk in their funeral. That is, they achieve two goals with one strike (kill two birds with one stone). Kill the mujahideen and blame them for the crime at the same time, to tarnish their reputation and rouse up public sentiment against them.
MQM is an ethnic party as well as violent terrorist organization, it used to be known as Muhajir Qaumi Movement, but changed its name to Muttahida Qaumi Movement. The name change makes no difference, it is essentially still a Muhajir party and will never win seats outside of Sindh.
And yes, I support Muttahida Majlis e Aamal (MMA).
thanks for your reply. i hope other pakistanis will add their 2 cents too.
no, i am not on that forum - someone has stolen my name!
taliban influence is certainly spreading in the tribal areas and in frontier province. do you think that it is limited to there?
my impression is that almost nobody wants musharraf! i don't think it breaks down along religious-secular lines, do you? i know some secular types who would like to live in a democratic pakistan.
what percentage of pakistanis would you guess would like to see shariah and what percentage a secular democracy? (isn't this what jinnah wanted?)
i am assuming that you would either like a shariah gov't or a gov't that was more islamic, in any case? i don't think all secularists are secularist extemists. (like turkey)
do you think musharraf will impose martial law if these demonstrations continue?
what do you think about the nationalist/separtist demands? there is a lot of resentment against the central gov't.
Only place taleban influence might exist is in North Province, or wazirstan area. Then again that area always has been tribal and never has been ruled by the gov't. The gov't tried a few times but got their butt kicked bad so they just leave that area alone and let them do as they please. It is also the area with most natural resources, especially natural gas. Mushraf is abusing those people by not giving them any hellp or rights as owners/citizens of that land and yet he wants to industralize that area to support rest of the pakistan.
No body wants mushraf except a small minority of secular extremists who have wealth attained thru questionable means and who enjoy corrupt and brotherls and lewdness. They are yelling the loudest so their way or life doesn't end..
Majority of pakistanis would like to see the shariah implemented and properly too, not just half backed notion of it like the saudis have.
let's not go to turkey, they have secular extremists who worship kemal more than anything.
There's lots of non-Muslims living in saudi as expats who love it there, despite the islamic "rules" there. If expats can love being in such a place then muslims shouldn't have problem living in an islamic state. Not only will it end all the corruption from politicians to lowest cop but also the country itself needs to be cleaned at all levels physically and metaphorically speaking.
In other words, the way things are going over there. We will see a revolution like that of iran 1979 where people will have enough of all this corruption and immorality that they will oust everyone there and change the whole country for the best.
Look at the obvious blatant lie ! A message found taped to one of the blown off legs of the alleged suicide bomber! Why would the suicide bomber tape a message to his leg? And, how did he know that the message would not be blown to pieces and destroyed in the explosion?
everybody know that terrorists love to leave notes - even george bush says so, and we know he's smart!
btw, am not familiar with this story - just couldn't resist because it sounds familiar.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
everybody know that terrorists love to leave notes - even george bush says so, and we know he's smart!
btw, am not familiar with this story - just couldn't resist because it sounds familiar.
are you on an aussie forum? i know i've seen you else where before
In other words, the way things are going over there. We will see a revolution like that of iran 1979 where people will have enough of all this corruption and immorality that they will oust everyone there and change the whole country for the best.
yes, i think practically nobody is happy with pakistan now and something has got to change - and probably soon.
then there is the "u.s. factor" - i think we would probably bomb pakistan if the pakistani people chose a shariah gov't - maybe even if they manage to throw out musharraf (never mind even shariah).
since musharraf will probably not voluntarily leave, even if 99.9% wanted him to, how far do you think he would go to hold on?
somewhere i read the opinion that the sacking of the judge was in order to create the protests and give an excuse for declaring martial law. what do you think?
any change will no doubt be fought violently by the u.s.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
yes, i think practically nobody is happy with pakistan now and something has got to change - and probably soon.
then there is the "u.s. factor" - i think we would probably bomb pakistan if the pakistani people chose a shariah gov't - maybe even if they manage to throw out musharraf (never mind even shariah).
since musharraf will probably not voluntarily leave, even if 99.9% wanted him to, how far do you think he would go to hold on?
somewhere i read the opinion that the sacking of the judge was in order to create the protests and give an excuse for declaring martial law. what do you think?
any change will no doubt be fought violently by the u.s.
US said they already have CIA/FBI and special ops in place in pakistan and will take over all paksitan nuclear facilities if the gov't is to collapse. They don't want any "nuclear technology/weapons" fall into "terrorists" hands.
As for Mushraf, he was given the ultimatem to either help US with its war on terror or be bombed back to stone age. And Mushraf said US would be no where without pakistan's help with this war. So some may say he tried to save pakistan by going along with the plan but many would say it was more for his personal gain as he got paid handsomely to go along, which is supported by the fact that he sold innocent pakistanis as qaeda "members" to US to support this war and show that they do have evil men hiding in pakistan.
Sacking of the judge was to put someone who isn't so critical of the gov't and who won't stop gov't from stringing anyone up in the court they want to shut them up.
The US can try all it's want to control pakistan, but if a revolution comes than no one will be save. No native who supports secularism nor any US offical in pakistan. It will be like Iran, you can't attack a whole nation of people.
is musharraf actually that unpopular? all the pakistanis i've spoken to have cautiously refrained from making any negative statements about him..apparently the country can only be controlled by army and musharraf brought some order and calm to the place, which was lacking under previous rule.
1. Muzna - Pakistani or Arab term used for someone that excels or over-achieves. Usually used as a congratulatory or praising remark.
Actual Muznas are a rare find. Many fakes are in circulation as parents attempt to influence their female offspring's personality and destiny by naming them Muzna.
is musharraf actually that unpopular? all the pakistanis i've spoken to have cautiously refrained from making any negative statements about him..apparently the country can only be controlled by army and musharraf brought some order and calm to the place, which was lacking under previous rule.
believe it or not but he is. So many attempts have been made to blow up his car and since CIA has signal jammping devices in the car, that's why he is still alive. If people that were actually liked by pakistanis like zia ul haq were killed so easily either by car bomb or plane explosion, any surprise this munafiq is still alive?
Pakistan has lately had nothing but looters and thiefs as PMs. Butto was a corrupt women who pocketed millions into her foreign account, her husband was using Pakistan's treasurey as his bank and was doing big illegal black market stuff. Nawaz sharif was no better either, he also robbed pakistan of all its money. Why else did mushraf took over in the first place? too much corrupt and robbery of Pakistan. But since he came to power, he too has been corrupted. While other's stole money only, this kuffar aided with the kuffars in selling out his own citizens as "suspects" and turned against his own muslim brothers. May Allah make his end quick and rule short lived.
I was asked by Br. or Sr. Snakelegs to comment in this thread.
I am sorry to say that I shant do that until this thread is moderated, except to say that I am getting annoyed by this person islamirama, for he is repeatedly maligning a hero of Pakistan, who has risked his life for Pakistan a number of times. More recently he saved Pakistan from America who was prepared to bomb it back to stone age (with help of hindu india)
I was asked by Br. or Sr. Snakelegs to comment in this thread.
I am sorry to say that I shant do that until this thread is moderated, except to say that I am getting annoyed by this person islamirama, for he is repeatedly maligning a hero of Pakistan, who has risked his life for Pakistan a number of times. More recently he saved Pakistan from America who was prepared to bomb it back to stone age (with help of hindu india)
wasalaam alaikum
A hero of pakistan? what are you smoking?
He sold his own citizens to US as "suspects"
He turned his muslim brothers (taleban) to US when they trusted him to keep them safe by seeking refuge in Muslim land
His intelligene agency kidnaps citizens and you never hear from them again
He demolishes masjids claiming they are illegaly built,something All muslim scholars disagreed with
He house arrested the pakistani scientists and hero who made nuclear bomb possible. Read what that guys' sister has to say about this loser.
He attacked madrassas and said london bombers were in pakistan getting training when london's on experts said they are UK problem and product of what UK society offers (or doesn't offer) and how it treats Muslims.
You are right, snake legs. People of Pakistan are facing very difficult times these days.
Various religious groups are trying to impose Talibanization on them from one side and the powerful and corrupt bureaucracy is imposing dictatorship on the other. When we say Talibanization, it doesn't exactly mean that they're trying to form the government of Taliban in Pakistan., but we mean to say that different small groups of religious terroists are trying to impose their own interpretations of sharia law on the people without getting their approval or consent. Similarly, Musharaf government is trying to impose its own interpretation of enlightenment on people which nothing but another propaganda trick of the dictatorship.
Faith, to my mind, is a stiffening process, a sort of mental starch.
believe it or not but he is. So many attempts have been made to blow up his car and since CIA has signal jammping devices in the car, that's why he is still alive. If people that were actually liked by pakistanis like zia ul haq were killed so easily either by car bomb or plane explosion, any surprise this munafiq is still alive?
Pakistan has lately had nothing but looters and thiefs as PMs. Butto was a corrupt women who pocketed millions into her foreign account, her husband was using Pakistan's treasurey as his bank and was doing big illegal black market stuff. Nawaz sharif was no better either, he also robbed pakistan of all its money. Why else did mushraf took over in the first place? too much corrupt and robbery of Pakistan. But since he came to power, he too has been corrupted. While other's stole money only, this kuffar aided with the kuffars in selling out his own citizens as "suspects" and turned against his own muslim brothers. May Allah make his end quick and rule short lived.
hokay...just telling you what it looks like in pakistan..but i dont know much about the politics there..so..
1. Muzna - Pakistani or Arab term used for someone that excels or over-achieves. Usually used as a congratulatory or praising remark.
Actual Muznas are a rare find. Many fakes are in circulation as parents attempt to influence their female offspring's personality and destiny by naming them Muzna.
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