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~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

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    ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

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    /Peace To All


    Israel Provoked Six-Day War, Says Former Dutch UN Observer

    Posted : Tue, 05 Jun 2007
    09:00:00GMT
    Author : DPA
    EarthTimes

    Amsterdam - A former Dutch UN observer has said Israel was not under siege by Arab countries preceding the Six-Day War, the 40th anniversary of which falls Tuesday, and that the Jewish state provoked most border incidents as part of its strategy to annex more land.

    Speaking on a Dutch current affairs programme late Monday, Jan Muhren, who was stationed interchangeably at the Golan Heights and the West Bank in 1966-67, says neither Jordan nor Syria had any intention to start a war with Israel...

    Source:
    http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/69413.html
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    Hi Zman:

    After 40 years, much of the formerly classified planning and execution documents of the 6-day war are now available. Therefore a more balanced analysis can be made.

    I am concerned that one of the legacies of this war was the general belief in Nasser’s assertion that the US and British troops participated. I have not been able to source any evidence that Nasser’s assertion was true. However, it is apparently taught as fact in textbooks in Middle Eastern states. I believe that this has resulted in the general anti-western attitude of the Arabs.

    Regards,
    Grenville
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    Shalom (Peace),

    I believe it is pretty clear who provoked the Six Day War zman. Of course you can believe what you wish, but the facts will say otherwise. I think your wise enough not to argue strongly in favor of such a conspiracy theory which has little factual basis.

    The Six-Day War — the third major Arab-Israeli conflict — was in a sense a continuation of the first two wars. Broadly speaking, the causes of the fighting in 1967 overlapped with the causes of fighting in 1948 (Arab rejection of Israel) and 1956 (continued rejectionism and an Egyptian blockade of shipping to Israel).

    Specifically, the war stemmed from Egypt's decision to expel United Nations troops from the Sinai peninsula and blockade Israel's port of Eilat, under international law a casus belli, or act of war, in addition to belligerent Arab threats to destroy Israel. Much of the above could be traced to Soviet meddling and misinformation.

    In the weeks leading up to the Six Day War, Arab leaders repeatedly threatened Israel with annihilation. Together with Egypt's ejection of United Nations forces, the closing of the Straits of Tiran, and the massing of troops on Israel's northern and southern borders, the fiery rhetoric created a state of existential fear in Israel.

    Egypt

    "Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

    "Brothers, it is our duty to prepare for the final battle in Palestine." – Nasser, Palestine Day, 1967

    "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, May 27, 1967

    "We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967

    "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein

    "We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967

    "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria is in a position to cut Israel in two at Kalkilya, where Israeli territory between the Jordan armistice line and the Mediterranean Sea is only twelve kilometers wide ... ." – El Akhbar newspaper, Cairo, May 31, 1967

    Cairo Radio Statements:

    May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

    May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"

    May 25, 1967: "The Gulf of Aqaba, by the dictum of history and the protection of our soldiers, is Arab, Arab, Arab."

    May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America."

    May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation."

    May 30, 1967: "With the closing of the Gulf of Akaba, Israel is faced with two alternatives either of which will destroy it; it will either be strangled to death by the Arab military and economic boycott, or it will perish by the fire of the Arab forces encompassing it from the South from the North and from the East."

    May 30, 1967: "The world will know that the Arabs are girded for battle as the fateful hour approaches."

    Jordan

    "All of the Arab armies now surround Israel. The UAR, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Sudan, and Kuwait. ... There is no difference between one Arab people and another, no difference between one Arab army and another." – King Hussein of Jordan, after signing the pact with Egypt May 30, 1967

    Iraq

    "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

    Palestinians

    "D-Day is approaching. The Arabs have waited 19 years for this and will not flinch from the war of liberation." – Ahmed Shukairy, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, May 27, 1967

    "This is a fight for the homeland – it is either us or the Israelis. There is no middle road. The Jews of Palestine will have to leave. We will facilitate their departure to their former homes. Any of the old Palestine Jewish population who survive may stay, but it is my impression that none of them will survive." – Ahmed Shukairy, June 1, 1967

    "We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors – if there are any – the boats are ready to deport them." – Ahmed Shukairy, June 1, 1967, speaking at a Friday sermon in Jerusalem

    Syria

    Syria's forces are "ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united.... I as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." – Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad, May 20, 1967

    "Our two brotherly countries have turned into one mobilized force. The withdrawal of the UN forces ... means 'make way, our forces are on their way to battle.'" – Foreign Minister Makhous on his return from Cairo


    General References

    1) Myths and Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Mitchell G. Bard, 2001
    2) Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Martin Gilbert, 1993
    3) Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East, Michael B. Oren, 2002


    ______
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville View Post
    Hi Zman:

    After 40 years, much of the formerly classified planning and execution documents of the 6-day war are now available. Therefore a more balanced analysis can be made.

    I am concerned that one of the legacies of this war was the general belief in Nasser’s assertion that the US and British troops participated. I have not been able to source any evidence that Nasser’s assertion was true. However, it is apparently taught as fact in textbooks in Middle Eastern states. I believe that this has resulted in the general anti-western attitude of the Arabs.

    Regards,
    Grenville

    Peace Grenville,

    yeah, I did hear that also. Honestly, anything is possible.

    I believe I had posted a link to a video, on one of these threads, where former prime minster Yitzhak Rabin's wife admitted that Israel didn't win it's independence on it own in the 1948 War.

    She stated that they were able to win, because the British and French air forces provided air cover for them, and neutralized any Arab air force involvement, and helped check Arab ground forces...
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    /Peace To All

    How Did The 1967 War Begin?

    ...How did Israel justify its attack?

    Israeli UN envoy Abba Eban initially claimed to the United Nations Security Council that Egyptian troops had attacked first and that Israel's air strikes were retaliatory. Within a month, however, Israel admitted that it had launched the first strike. It asserted that it had faced an impending attack by Egypt, evidenced by Egypt's bellicose rhetoric, removal of UN peacekeeping troops from the Sinai Peninsula, closure of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, and concentration of troops along Israel's borders. The Soviet Union introduced a resolution to the UN Security Council naming Israel the aggressor in the war. This resolution was blocked by the US and Great Britain. Thereafter, the UN failed to rule definitively on the legality of Israel's actions, although it called for Israel's withdrawal from territories it seized.

    Is Israel's version of the facts universally accepted?

    Israel's claim of an impending Egyptian attack has been widely accepted in the West. The Israeli public had been led to believe that it faced a threat of imminent attack, and perhaps even annihilation. However, the veracity of Israel's claim is increasingly questioned. A number of senior Israeli military and political figures have subsequently admitted that Israel was not faced with a genuine threat of attack, and instead, deliberately chose war.

    Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli army chief of staff during the war, later stated: "I do not believe that Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent into Sinai on May 14 would not have been enough to unleash an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it."


    If Israel's claimed reasons for the attack were false, what were its true objectives?

    One objective may have been territorial expansion. Some Israeli politicians and military leaders, such as former Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion and Minister of Defence Moshe Dayan lamented the failure to seize East Jerusalem and the West Bank in the 1948 war. Before the war, Jordan's King Hussain told the American ambassador: "They want the West Bank. They've been waiting for a chance to get it, and they're going to take advantage of us and they're going to attack."

    Second, Israeli politicians were genuinely fearful of Jamal Abdul Nasser, the charismatic leader of Arab nationalism. They may have seen the war as an opportunity to embarrass him and deflate the movement he embodied.

    Third, Israeli leaders may have seen military confrontation with the Arab states as inevitable, and chose to engage in battle at a time and under terms of their choosing. Menachem Begin, for example, characterised Israel's war aim as to "take the initiative and attack the enemy, drive him back, and thus assure the security of Israel and the future of the nation."
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    ZMAN
    so I suppose the above quotes by Rav are not enough to out weigh your 4 bolded sentences huh? Everyone knows that the Arabs started the war with Israel, it is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. Those quotes provided above, alone are enough to prove that. I am sure you will have a copy and paste for this as well though
    ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    "War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
    - Bertrand Russell

    "He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte

    "There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
    enemy." - George Washington
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    Shalom (Peace) zman,

    It was actually a very interesting article that you have just presented. But there are some parts that are incorrect. Maybe you could address them if you feel I misread some parts.

    1. Your article claims that Egypt never wished to attack Israel, then why all the signs that this was not the case? What would compel Nassar to say all of these things that are all recorded into history?

    "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, May 27, 1967

    "We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967

    "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein

    "We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967

    2. It seems like your article also did not mention that Egypt's decision to expel United Nations troops from the Sinai peninsula and blockade Israel's port of Eilat, under international law is a casus belli. (i.e. act of war)

    Why was it that on May 15, Israel's 19th Independence Day, Egyptian troops began moving into the Sinai and massing near the Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops were prepared for battle along the Golan Heights.

    On May 16, Nassar requested the withdrawal of the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956. Egyptian forces moved up to the UNEF lines and began to harrass the UN positions. Without bringing the matter to the attention of the General Assembly, as his predecessor had promised, Secretary-General U Thant complied with the demand. This was a direct violation of the conditions under which Israel had returned control of the Sinai to Egypt after the Sinai Campaign. The UN force was supposed to safeguard Israel from Egypt again closing the Straits of Tiran or launching terrorist attacks from that quarter.

    Finally, King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30, 1967, under which Jordan joined the Egyptian-Syrian military alliance of 1966 and placed its army on both sides of the Jordan river under Egyptian command.

    So, why exactly would Jordan put its military in the hands of Egypt's goverment if an attack was not coming?

    It seems that the majority of the evidence points towards the fact that the Arab nations sorounding Israel most likely provoked the war.

    Please post your own opinions, and not another copy & paste article.
    Last edited by rav; 06-06-2007 at 07:57 PM.
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    /Peace To All

    Truths About The Six-Day War: U.S. CIA & Military Secretly Helped Israelis

    Mid-East Realities, 11 June 1997

    MER - Most of the lies and distortions about the Six Day War in 1967 when Israel occupied the Golan, West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, remain today 30 years later.

    The reality is that Israel encouraged and then took advantage of that war for many political, economic, and territorial reasons. In the following column by Prof. Tanya Reinhart, she puts this into perspective in so far as Israel's attack on Syria and capture of the Golan in the last days of the war.

    What history still does not properly record are:

    • Israel never was in military danger, the Israeli Army was always aware they could overpowered all the Arab armies.

    • The US CIA was greatly involved in providing Israel intelligence information that greatly helped them win the war in such a short time.

    • US military personnel, disguised as civilians and on secret missions to which they were sworn to secrecy, helped the Israelis with specific technical and intelligence-gathering operations.

    There is also a considerable likelihood that in the years following the war the American CIA, cooperating with the Israeli Mossad, targeted Gamal Abdel Nasser, President of Egypt, just as was the case with other anti-American leaders in other parts of the world. Nasser's death may have been one of the CIA's greatest and most secret successes.

    Recent revelations in Washington of destroyed CIA files dealing with foreign assassinations in the 50s and 60s adds a further dimension to this serious possibility.]

    Dayan Admits Israel Attacked Syria In Land Grab

    By Prof. Tanya Reinhart, translated from Yediot Aharonot, 6 May 1997
    In June, it would be 30 years to the war of 1967 - the war that brought about the occupation.

    Governments have changed from Labor to Likud and back several times since then, and what has changed?

    Yediot Aharonot of April 27 has published an 1976 interview with Moshe Dayan (which was not previously published).

    Dayan, who was the defense minister in 1967, explains there what led, then, to the decision to attack Syria.

    In the collective consciousness of the period, Syria was conceived as a serious threat to the security of Israel, and a constant initiator of aggression towards the residents of northern Israel.

    But according to Dayan, this is 'bull-****' - Syria was not a threat to Israel before 67.


    Just drop it - he says as an answer to a question about the northern residences - I know how at least 80% of all the incidents with Syria started.

    We were sending a tractor to the demilitarized zone and we knew that the Syrians will shoot.

    If they did not shoot, we would instruct the tractor to go deeper, till the Syrians finally got upset and start shooting.

    Then we employed artillery, and later also the air-force... I did that... and Itzhak Rabin did that, when he was there (as commander of the Northern front, in the early sixties).

    And what has led Israel to provoke Syria?

    According to Dayan, this was the greediness for the land - the idea that it is possible to grab a piece of land and keep it, until the enemy will get tired and give it to us.


    The Syrian land was, as he says, particularly tempting, since, unlike Gaza and the West bank it was not heavily populated.

    The 67 war has brought the big chance to grab the land, and along with the land, the water of the of the Jordan Riverheads.

    Dayan insists that the decision to attack Syria was not motivated by security reasons:

    You do not attack the enemy because he is a *******, but because he threatens you, and the Syrians in the fourth day of the war were not threatening us.

    He adds that the initiative of Colonel David Elazar to open the Syrian front was assisted by a delegation sent to prime-minister Eshkol by the Northern kibbutz's, who did not even try to hide their greediness to that land.

    In 1973, the Israeli society has paid, for the first time, a heavy price for the occupation - in the 'Yom Kippur' war.

    The interview with Dayan was held three years after the defeat, and in that atmosphere, he explains that the decision to attack Syria was a mistake that will disable, in the future, peace with Syria.

    One could infer from Dayan's words that he would have, perhaps, supported, withdrawal from the Golan heights, but Rabin, his partner to the road of the Labor, has never changed his skin.

    At the first period of his term as prime-minister, many believed that he is seeking an agreement with Syria.

    But behind the halo of our saviour the peace-maker, there was the same land-greedy commander who sent the tractors to provoke the Syrians in the early sixties.


    In the tradition of all his predecessors, Rabin used the tactics of dragging negotiations:

    He agreed to discuss everything (the location of inspection points, the dates of opening embassies) except for the one issue that Syria was interested in - which lands Israel is willing to give up in the Golan.

    While Rabin's one hand was spreading rumors about secret agreements, to pacify public opinion, his other hand was pouring unprecedented budgets for developing the Israeli settlements in the Golan Heights.


    Apartments previously frozen were sold to anyone interested, and huge amounts of money were invested in developing foundation work and industry.

    All Netanyahu had to do is pick the fruits.

    Thirty years after, the land-greedy are still stealing and appropriating it wherever possible - in the Golan heights, as in the West Bank.

    What we are left with are the words of Yifat Kastiel, whose twin sister was murdered recently in Wadi Kelet:

    They fight here all the time over pieces of land. But what importance could the land have, when the people who live here are so miserable?

    Professor Reinhart teaches Linguistics at Tel Aviv University and is a member of the Advisory Committee of the Committee On the Middle East (COME).


    Source:
    http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51a/022.html
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    format_quote Originally Posted by rav View Post
    Shalom (Peace) zman,

    It was actually a very interesting article that you have just presented. But there are some parts that are incorrect. Maybe you could address them if you feel I misread some parts.

    1. Your article claims that Egypt never wished to attack Israel, then why all the signs that this was not the case? What would compel Nassar to say all of these things that are all recorded into history?

    "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, May 27, 1967

    "We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967

    "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein

    "We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967

    2. It seems like your article also did not mention that Egypt's decision to expel United Nations troops from the Sinai peninsula and blockade Israel's port of Eilat, under international law is a casus belli. (i.e. act of war)

    Why was it that on May 15, Israel's 19th Independence Day, Egyptian troops began moving into the Sinai and massing near the Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops were prepared for battle along the Golan Heights.

    On May 16, Nassar requested the withdrawal of the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956. Egyptian forces moved up to the UNEF lines and began to harrass the UN positions. Without bringing the matter to the attention of the General Assembly, as his predecessor had promised, Secretary-General U Thant complied with the demand. This was a direct violation of the conditions under which Israel had returned control of the Sinai to Egypt after the Sinai Campaign. The UN force was supposed to safeguard Israel from Egypt again closing the Straits of Tiran or launching terrorist attacks from that quarter.

    Finally, King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30, 1967, under which Jordan joined the Egyptian-Syrian military alliance of 1966 and placed its army on both sides of the Jordan river under Egyptian command.

    So, why exactly would Jordan put its military in the hands of Egypt's goverment if an attack was not coming?

    It seems that the majority of the evidence points towards the fact that the Arab nations sorounding Israel most likely provoked the war.

    Please post your own opinions, and not another copy & paste article.

    Peace rav,

    God Willing, I'll address your points, later tonight...
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    FACT: the arabs provocked the 6 day war.

    i suppose though that if one can deny the Holocaust, then they can certainly deny the fact that the arabs provoced the six day war, and not the Israeli's.

    it's a fact.. and it can't be denied. as much as some people want to be anti semetic and blame it on a group of people for no reason, it just can't be done.

    i hate people who lyingly point fingers at people when they know they are wrong, and have been proved wrong.
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    Hi Everyone:

    You are all correct; but after 40 years there is sufficient evidence for a balanced presentation. The Arab nations certainly provoked the war, and Dayan has admitted that he attempted to provoke Syria with his ploughing near the Syrian border. However, since there is no evidence of US or British troop support after 40 years, the schools in the Middle East need to amend their curriculum.

    Regards,
    Grenville
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville View Post
    However, since there is no evidence of US or British troop support after 40 years, the schools in the Middle East need to amend their curriculum.

    Regards,
    Grenville

    Peace Grenville,

    1. Didn't what Professor Reinhart (my post # 8) constitute US/Uk direct "troop support" for Israel?

    At least non-combat support. That would make them active participants in the Israeli aggression.

    2. Also, here's another bit of surprising info (I guess for the time being there is no verifibale proof, but give it time. Since there is no smoke without a fire):


    In his book Six Days veteran BBC journalist Jeremy Bowen claims that on 4 June, 1967 the Israeli ship Miryam left Felixstowe with cases of machine guns, 105 mm tank shells, and armored vehicles in "the latest of many consignments of arms that had been sent secretly to Israel from British and American reserves since the crisis started" and that "Israeli transport planes had been running a 'shuttle service' in and out of RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire".

    Bowen claims that Harold Wilson had written to Eshkol saying that he was glad to help as long as the utmost secrecy was maintained

    Source:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    Hi Zman:

    There is clear evidence that the US supplied Israel with weapons before the 6-day war and the USSR armed the Arab states. I am aware of the assertion that the US supplied arms during the conflict but whether they were purchased or given is unclear. I have not seen evidence of the intelligence support.

    Never the less, providing arms is not what Nasser was asserting nor what is being taught to children in the Middle East. Nasser claimed that US and British airplanes attacked the Egyptian army, and 40 years later there is no evidence for this. Will someone please tell the children of the Middle East the truth, or are we going to continue this manufactured cycle of hate for another generation.

    Regards,
    Grenville
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville View Post
    Hi Zman:

    Never the less, providing arms is not what Nasser was asserting nor what is being taught to children in the Middle East. Nasser claimed that US and British airplanes attacked the Egyptian army, and 40 years later there is no evidence for this. Will someone please tell the children of the Middle East the truth, or are we going to continue this manufactured cycle of hate for another generation.

    Regards,
    Grenville

    Peace Grenville,

    Ok, I have a theory that I'm currently entertaining:

    Since Israel simultaneousely attacked all (or the vast majority) of Egyptian military airports, how did they do that, since some of the air bases were deep inside Egypt?

    I don't think Israel had Jets that could carry the amount of fuel and bombs to last them a round-trip mission, and I believe that Israel had no mid-air refueling cababilities at the time (was it even developed then?).

    So, my observations/questions are:

    1. Either other powers directly assisted in targeting the air bases,

    2. Cabale long-range Jets (with external bladders) were loaned to Israel,

    3. If mid-air refueling was available at the time, could have Israeli Jets used US tankers on their missions?

    4. Lastly, could have the Israeli Jets used US aircraft carriers in the Med to refuel and reload on their deep-strike missions?
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    Hi Zman:

    Let me research this theory. However, if the planes used were able to achieve a round trip without refuelling, then let us agree that the theory is likely to be false.

    Regards,
    Grenville
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    format_quote Originally Posted by Grenville View Post
    Hi Zman:

    Let me research this theory. However, if the planes used were able to achieve a round trip without refuelling, then let us agree that the theory is likely to be false.

    Regards,
    Grenville

    Peace Grenville,

    Cool. You got yourself a deal...
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    /Peace To All

    Six-Day War Deceptions

    2 YouTube videos from a Dutch show that interviewed the former Dutch UN observer:

    Part-1:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yorwo...eptions%2Ehtml

    Part-2:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgZQp...eptions%2Ehtml
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    Hi Zman:

    It appears that the IDF primarily used the Mirage IIIC which has a fuel range of 1,350 km. The farthest Egyptian airbase is near Cario and using the documented flight path shown below provides a distance of approximately 1,200 km. Therefore the IDF did not need US and British refuelling assistance.

    Regards,
    Grenville

    Flight path source:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...l/nn1page1.stm
    attach_file Attached Images
    Last edited by Walter; 06-07-2007 at 04:54 PM. Reason: To provide the source of the uploaded flight path.
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    format_quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post

    Ok, I have a theory that I'm currently entertaining:

    Since Israel simultaneousely attacked all (or the vast majority) of Egyptian military airports, how did they do that, since some of the air bases were deep inside Egypt?
    Perfect planning and immaculate timing. The details of exactly which squadrons of Israeli planes did what are fully known - it was not a plan that could be repeated. All targets were within range (you don't think someone might have come up with this 'theory' before if that were not the case?!) The initial strikes were against ten airfields, by four planes in each case. That left the Israelis 12 aircraft (only) for home defence. A further nine bases were hit later in the morning.

    I don't think Israel had Jets that could carry the amount of fuel and bombs to last them a round-trip mission, and I believe that Israel had no mid-air refueling cababilities at the time (was it even developed then?).
    It had been developed; the US was using it in Vietnam. The Israelis did not have aircraft equipped to do it... or to land on carriers. Neither did they have carrier-trained pilots.

    The simple truth is that the whole myth of US/British involvement emerged firstly as the Arabs couldn't figure out how else such a complete disaster could have happened, and later because being so comprehensively defeated by Israel alone was a major embarrassment. Honor was pretty much restored in 1973.
    Last edited by Trumble; 06-08-2007 at 07:12 AM.
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    Re: ~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

    Hi Trumble:

    While some honour may have been restored among the military and politicians, it evidently was not restored among the people or the religious leaders. How could God be on the Arab nation’s side and have allowed them suffer such a humiliating defeat within 6 days. Remember many men died in that short space of time.

    The legacy has been an unjustified and sustained hatred of the US and the UK that remains to this day. The most irresponsible act that a teacher and parent can do is to teach their students and children respectively to hate another person. Who is willing to tell the new generation of persons in the Middle East the truth?

    Regards
    Grenville
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