Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany (OP)
Plan stirs concerns about integration
August 22, 2007
BY TOM HUNDLEY
CHICAGO TRIBUNE
COLOGNE, Germany -- Never mind that a local brothel claiming to be
Europe's largest calls itself the Pasha and sports an ersatz arabesque theme.
Some residents of this ancient city on the banks of the Rhine see the brothel as a shining example of their tolerance. But what irks them is that some Muslims want to build a mosque, complete with a dome and minarets.
The residents complain that the minarets would clash with the towering spires of the city's celebrated 13th-Century cathedral. But as the debate heats up, it has revealed a cultural schism that goes much deeper than any disagreement over architectural aesthetics.For Cologne's 120,000 Muslims, most of them of Turkish origin, the $20-million mosque is clearly intended to be more than a house of prayer. It is a symbol of the community's growing sense of pride and confidence, a marker of its determination to take what it sees as its rightful place in German society.
"After 50 years in this country, it is time for us to move out of the mosques in backrooms and abandoned warehouses and to worship in a real mosque," said Mehmet Yildirim, director of the Turkish-Islamic Union for Religious Affairs, the organization behind the construction of the mosque.
But Cardinal Joachim Meisner, spiritual leader of the city's Catholics and a close friend of Pope Benedict XVI, has said that the proposed mosque leaves him with an "uneasy feeling."
Monsignor Rainer Fischer, another Catholic clergyman in the city, said: "The idea of building the mosque has brought up a number of issues that have always been there but were submerged.
"Now they are out in the open."
These issues include Germany's fears about the rising tide of Muslim immigration across Europe, frustrations over the failure to integrate
Germany's 2.7 million Turkish immigrants and gnawing doubts about whether the Turks and other Muslim immigrants truly want to integrate into a Western society.
With Turkey pressing for membership in the European Union, the debate in Cologne has taken on a greater urgency: If Germany is made uneasy by the presence of 2.7 million Turks in its midst, how would Europe integrate an entire nation of 72 million?
'An enriching contribution'
The mosque, which would be one of Europe's largest, has been years in the planning.
The Turkish-Islamic Union held a competition for its design. Out of more than 100 entries, it chose one submitted by Cologne architect Paul Boehm, son of the renowned church architect and Pritzker Prize-winner Gottfried Boehm.
Paul Boehm's design blends elements of Ottoman classicism with cutting-edge modernity. The main worship area is enclosed in a large glass-and-concrete dome, which is intended to suggest openness and transparency.
"We wanted something that was clearly a Cologne mosque, something that would be an enriching contribution to the city," said Yildirim, who noted that money to build the mosque was raised entirely from local donations.
The new mosque would be built on the site of the Turkish-Islamic Union's current mosque, a converted pharmaceutical factory across the street from a gas station and car wash. The location, in a scruffy immigrant section of the city called Ehrenfeld, is less than 2 miles from Cologne's famous cathedral.
"The architecture is, in my opinion, fantastic," said Fischer, who is the Catholic Church's representative on Cologne's council of religions. "I see it as a bridge between Christian Europe and the style of the Ottomans."
Fischer said that his only recommendation would be to scale down the size.
'A symbol of isolation'
Other cities in Germany, including Berlin, have seen the construction of major mosques in recent years. No one other than the far-right fringe raised any real objection to the Cologne project -- at least not until Ralph Giordano, a respected German-Jewish writer, warned that the mosque was an example of the so-called creeping Islamization of Europe.
Given the horrors of Germany's 20th-Century history, the country's politicians and commentators tend to tread carefully in debates that raise questions about religious and ethnic tolerance. But Giordano's comments -- and his credentials as a Holocaust survivor -- seemed to be a green light for others to criticize the proposed mosque.
"The mosque is not a symbol of integration, it's a symbol of isolation, the symbol of an isolated enclave of Oriental culture," said Joerg Uckermann, deputy mayor of the Ehrenfeld district and a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union.
"I think the minarets are a sign of sharia" -- Islamic law -- "and I do not want that here. This is a Christian city," Uckermann said, openly expressing what many residents would say only in private.
The ferocity of the opposition has come as a shock to members of the
Turkish community. It also angers them.
"They are saying that this is a Christian nation, and there is no space for any other religion? This is against all the principles of freedom and democracy," said Yildirim.
Cologne Mayor Fritz Schramma said that while he is sympathetic to the fears of residents who believe the Muslim community has not done enough to integrate, he believes that allowing the community to build a prestigious place of worship "will be a step toward open dialogue and integration."
Protestants (concentrated in the north and east) and Roman Catholics (concentrated in the south and west) each comprise about 31% of the population. The current Pope, Benedict XVI, was born in Bavaria. In total, more than 55 million people officially belong to a Christian denomination. Non-religious people, including atheists and agnostics amount to 28.5% of the population, and are especially numerous in the former East Germany. About three million Muslims live in Germany. Most are Sunnis and Alevites from Turkey, but there are a small number of Shiites. Germany has Western Europe's third-largest Jewish population. In 2004, twice as many Jews from former Soviet republics settled in Germany as in Israel, bringing the total Jewish population to more than 200,000, compared to 30,000 prior to German reunification. Large cities with significant Jewish populations include Berlin, Frankfurt and Munich. According to the Deutsche Buddhistische Union (German Buddhist Union), an umbrella organisation of the Buddhist groups in Germany, there are about 250,000 active Buddhists in Germany; 50% of them are immigrated Asians.
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I would like to hear muslims opinions, if christians would like to build a huge catherdral in Mekkah ! Then, where would be again the so-called muslim tolerance, while 'westerners' must swallow everything? Pffffft...
It is called separation of state and Church... I know westerners love it, but they don't seem too good at swallowing fact that it means Muslims have as much right to build mosques as Christians do to build churches now do they?
Question- Is Germany a country run by Christian law? As far as I know, it is not. So comparing to Makkah is completely pointless.
Protestants (concentrated in the north and east) and Roman Catholics (concentrated in the south and west) each comprise about 31% of the population. The current Pope, Benedict XVI, was born in Bavaria. In total, more than 55 million people officially belong to a Christian denomination. Non-religious people, including atheists and agnostics amount to 28.5% of the population, and are especially numerous in the former East Germany.
Wow, there are almost as many religion-less people as there are Christians!! Hardly Christian at all!
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
is it christian by definition? u.s. is majority christian also, but is not a christian country. we have separation of church and state, though far from perfect.
also - how can you look down on a group of people and then complain about them not assimilating?
is a child of a turk who was born in germany recognized as a german citizen - equal to all other germans?
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
hmmm, I think, you have to review your info. I was curious, and I google that from Mohamed in Amsterdam. Here is the result from a netherland Webpage:
Now where is this Mohamed ? [url]For the rest, I didn't even google, because I'm pretty sure, there will also be no Mohamed. And for your 'fastest religion in the world' story, use the search function of this forum and you will find out that this also not so true !
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a branch of the Muslim world.
So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
is it christian by definition? u.s. is majority christian also, but is not a christian country. we have separation of church and state, though far from perfect.
also - how can you look down on a group of people and then complain about them not assimilating?
is a child of a turk who was born in germany recognized as a german citizen - equal to all other germans?
I don't look down on anybody. I just see the thread out from the architectural point of view, as it was also mentionned in the OP.
For those who know Cologne and its history and architecture, a big mosque with dome and minarets will hardly fit in. I'm not against a house of worship for muslims and neither the citizens of Cologne, but I'm pretty sure, it should be a more descent mosque.
Yes a turk born in Germany can have double citizenship, German and Turk (as far as I know)
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
what's indecent about a mosque? europe is changing.
also, i repeat - if a turkish resident has a baby born in germany, is that child considered an equal citizen?
ooops - i see you answered that. can you check it out to be sure? because i have read different.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Thank you, this was the kind of answers I expected
Maybe if you stop to think about the difference between a secular country and a country rule by religious law you can reply with a more meaningful post.
Anyway, I'm more concerned about the fact they are using $20 million to build this mosque. What are they going to do, gold plate the walls? :confused:
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
The writer is talking about Muslims.
The writer further states
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a branch of the Muslim world.
So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
is germany a christian country by definition? (no separation of church and state)?
Of course not. Germany has secular constitution.
In my opinion they should have mentioned in consitution special rights and priveleges for christian heritage. But thats just my opinion
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
It is called separation of state and Church... I know westerners love it, but they don't seem too good at swallowing fact that it means Muslims have as much right to build mosques as Christians do to build churches now do they?
Yes. But like in the many "school and the veil" threads, muslims have to follow the same rules as everyone else. I dont really know how it is in Germany, but here in Finland we reject building permits for buildings that would change the city landscape drastically.
Wow, there are almost as many religion-less people as there are Christians!! Hardly Christian at all!
Actually, there is twice as many christians as non-religious, protestants and catholics each have 31%.
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i don't know what the germans mean by "integration".
correct me if i'm wrong, but i think even the children of turkish are not recognized as german citizens, even though they were born in germany!
ugly.
Untrue for any child whose atleast one parent has been living legally in Germany for over 8 years. I also wonder whats wrong in not giving citizenship automatically for children born to foreign parents.
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
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and oh, btw, this would be this famous cathedral in Cologne, pretty impressive
That is searingly beautiful, although that building to the left of frame looks architecturally discordant already as does the one with the TV tower in the background. I think a lot of Cologne was rebuilt after WWII?
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