Plan stirs concerns about integration
August 22, 2007
BY TOM HUNDLEY
CHICAGO TRIBUNE
COLOGNE, Germany -- Never mind that a local brothel claiming to be
Europe's largest calls itself the Pasha and sports an ersatz arabesque theme.
Some residents of this ancient city on the banks of the Rhine see the brothel as a shining example of their tolerance. But what irks them is that some Muslims want to build a mosque, complete with a dome and minarets.
The residents complain that the minarets would clash with the towering spires of the city's celebrated 13th-Century cathedral. But as the debate heats up, it has revealed a cultural schism that goes much deeper than any disagreement over architectural aesthetics.For Cologne's 120,000 Muslims, most of them of Turkish origin, the $20-million mosque is clearly intended to be more than a house of prayer. It is a symbol of the community's growing sense of pride and confidence, a marker of its determination to take what it sees as its rightful place in German society.
"After 50 years in this country, it is time for us to move out of the mosques in backrooms and abandoned warehouses and to worship in a real mosque," said Mehmet Yildirim, director of the Turkish-Islamic Union for Religious Affairs, the organization behind the construction of the mosque.
But Cardinal Joachim Meisner, spiritual leader of the city's Catholics and a close friend of Pope Benedict XVI, has said that the proposed mosque leaves him with an "uneasy feeling."
Monsignor Rainer Fischer, another Catholic clergyman in the city, said: "The idea of building the mosque has brought up a number of issues that have always been there but were submerged.
"Now they are out in the open."
These issues include Germany's fears about the rising tide of Muslim immigration across Europe, frustrations over the failure to integrate
Germany's 2.7 million Turkish immigrants and gnawing doubts about whether the Turks and other Muslim immigrants truly want to integrate into a Western society.
With Turkey pressing for membership in the European Union, the debate in Cologne has taken on a greater urgency: If Germany is made uneasy by the presence of 2.7 million Turks in its midst, how would Europe integrate an entire nation of 72 million?
'An enriching contribution'
The mosque, which would be one of Europe's largest, has been years in the planning.
The Turkish-Islamic Union held a competition for its design. Out of more than 100 entries, it chose one submitted by Cologne architect Paul Boehm, son of the renowned church architect and Pritzker Prize-winner Gottfried Boehm.
Paul Boehm's design blends elements of Ottoman classicism with cutting-edge modernity. The main worship area is enclosed in a large glass-and-concrete dome, which is intended to suggest openness and transparency.
"We wanted something that was clearly a Cologne mosque, something that would be an enriching contribution to the city," said Yildirim, who noted that money to build the mosque was raised entirely from local donations.
The new mosque would be built on the site of the Turkish-Islamic Union's current mosque, a converted pharmaceutical factory across the street from a gas station and car wash. The location, in a scruffy immigrant section of the city called Ehrenfeld, is less than 2 miles from Cologne's famous cathedral.
"The architecture is, in my opinion, fantastic," said Fischer, who is the Catholic Church's representative on Cologne's council of religions. "I see it as a bridge between Christian Europe and the style of the Ottomans."
Fischer said that his only recommendation would be to scale down the size.
'A symbol of isolation'
Other cities in Germany, including Berlin, have seen the construction of major mosques in recent years. No one other than the far-right fringe raised any real objection to the Cologne project -- at least not until Ralph Giordano, a respected German-Jewish writer, warned that the mosque was an example of the so-called creeping Islamization of Europe.
Given the horrors of Germany's 20th-Century history, the country's politicians and commentators tend to tread carefully in debates that raise questions about religious and ethnic tolerance. But Giordano's comments -- and his credentials as a Holocaust survivor -- seemed to be a green light for others to criticize the proposed mosque.
"The mosque is not a symbol of integration, it's a symbol of isolation, the symbol of an isolated enclave of Oriental culture," said Joerg Uckermann, deputy mayor of the Ehrenfeld district and a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union.
"I think the minarets are a sign of sharia" -- Islamic law -- "and I do not want that here. This is a Christian city," Uckermann said, openly expressing what many residents would say only in private.
The ferocity of the opposition has come as a shock to members of the
Turkish community. It also angers them.
"They are saying that this is a Christian nation, and there is no space for any other religion? This is against all the principles of freedom and democracy," said Yildirim.
Cologne Mayor Fritz Schramma said that while he is sympathetic to the fears of residents who believe the Muslim community has not done enough to integrate, he believes that allowing the community to build a prestigious place of worship "will be a step toward open dialogue and integration."
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
[B]
But Cardinal Joachim Meisner, spiritual leader of the city's Catholics and a close friend of Pope Benedict XVI, has said that the proposed mosque leaves him with an "uneasy feeling."
[/URL]
ROFL
perhaps an IM ceftriaxone and a 7 day course doxy. will take care of that 'uneasy feeling' for him... such uneasy feelings always need to be reported to the CDC thus I can understand his discomfort... what a joke!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
Cologne Mayor Fritz Schramma said that while he is sympathetic to the fears of residents who believe the Muslim community has not done enough to integrate, he believes that allowing the community to build a prestigious place of worship "will be a step toward open dialogue and integration."
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari
yes it would be a change, since your an ignorant guy you dont know christianity is allowed in the muslim world, but we shud stop that.
Oh Sami, back to your childish insults.
I'm fully aware of how Christianity is allowed. If you read again, and quit just making assumptions you will notice I said "It surly wouldn't be much of a change to the current condition".
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
i don't know what the germans mean by "integration".
correct me if i'm wrong, but i think even the children of turkish are not recognized as german citizens, even though they were born in germany!
ugly.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
ROFL
perhaps an IM ceftriaxone and a 7 day course doxy. will take care of that 'uneasy feeling' for him... such uneasy feelings always need to be reported to the CDC thus I can understand his discomfort... what a joke!
Nice! Very tolerant of you.
FYI...she is simplying the Cardinal has a sexually transmitted disease.
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
Ridiculous. They're always saying that Muslims ''aren't doing enough''. They complain that the we're isolating ourselves instead of integrating into society. But when we do, they complain again that we are just trying to ''Islamize'' Europe or wherever! No one's ever satisfied with us!
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
Plan stirs concerns about integration
August 22, 2007
BY TOM HUNDLEY
CHICAGO TRIBUNE
These issues include Germany's fears about the rising tide of Muslim immigration across Europe, frustrations over the failure to integrate
"I think the minarets are a sign of sharia" -- Islamic law -- "and I do not want that here. This is a Christian city," Uckermann said, openly expressing what many residents would say only in private.
"They are saying that this is a Christian nation, and there is no space for any other religion? This is against all the principles of freedom and democracy," said Yildirim.
As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent. What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."
ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe. According to projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will likely double by 2025.
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
Well, for those, who have never been to Cologne in Germany, it looks pretty well unique with its architecture, specially with the huge Cathedral in the city centre.
Now a mosque with minarets will definetely destroy the charme of this architecture.
I would like to hear muslims opinions, if christians would like to build a huge catherdral in Mekkah ! Then, where would be again the so-called muslim tolerance, while 'westerners' must swallow everything? Pffffft...
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
Re: Mosque project stirs concerns about the integration of Islam in Germany
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
Say Goodbye to Europe
As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent. What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."
ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe. According to projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will likely double by 2025.
hmmm, I think, you have to review your info. I was curious, and I google that from Mohamed in Amsterdam. Here is the result from a netherland Webpage:
Girls names:
2007 (1e kwartaal)
1. Sophie
2. Lotte
3. Sanne
4. Lieke
5. Emma
6. Eva
7. Fleur
8. Noa
9. Anna
10. Julia
11. Isa
12. Lisa
13. Iris
14. Femke
15. Britt
16. Anouk
17. Roos
18. Amber
19. Anne
20. Maud
2006
1. Sophie
2. Sanne
3. Lisa
4. Anna
5. Julia
6. Emma
7. Lieke
8. Fleur
9. Lotte
10. Eva
11. Iris
12. Anouk
13. Anne
14. Isa
15. Femke
16. Noa
17. Roos
18. Britt
19. Amber
20. Maud
2005
1. Sanne
2. Emma
3. Anna
4. Iris
5. Anouk
6. Lisa
7. Eva
8. Julia
9. Lotte
10. Isa
11. Maud
12. Sophie
13. Fleur
14. Lieke
15. Anne
16. Amber
17. Noa
18. Roos
19. Marit
20. Femke
2004
1. Sanne
2. Lotte
3. Emma
4. Anne
5. Iris
6. Anna
7. Julia
8. Femke
9. Lisa
10. Amber
11. Fleur
12. Britt
13. Eva
14. Isa
15. Anouk
16. Noa
17. Maud
18. Sophie
19. Naomi
20. Floor
and the boys:
2007 (1e kwartaal)
1. Daan
2. Tim
3. Sem
4. Jesse
5. Ruben
6. Thijs
7. Stijn
8. Lucas
9. Thomas
10. Milan
11. Lars
12. Sven
13. Luuk
14. Bram
15. Julian
16. Max
17. Finn
18. Niels
19. Jayden
20. Jasper
2006
1. Sem
2. Daan
3. Thomas
4. Lars
5. Milan
6. Tim
7. Thijs
8. Jesse
9. Lucas
10. Sven
11. Stijn
12. Ruben
13. Bram
14. Luuk
15. Max
16. Finn
17. Niels
18. Jan
19. Nick
20. Tom
2005
1. Daan
2. Sem
3. Thomas
4. Tim
5. Lucas
6. Lars
7. Thijs
8. Milan
9. Jesse
10. Bram
11. Max
12. Stijn
13. Niels
14. Ruben
15. Luuk
16. Sven
17. Nick
18. Jasper
19. Daniël
20. Tom
2004
1. Sem
2. Daan
3. Thomas
4. Tim
5. Lars
6. Lucas
7. Bram
8. Milan
9. Max
10. Jesse
11. Niels
12. Thijs
13. Nick
14. Stijn
15. Sam
16. Luuk
17. Ruben
18. Tom
19. Daniël
20. Jaspe
Now where is this Mohamed ?
For the rest, I didn't even google, because I'm pretty sure, there will also be no Mohamed. And for your 'fastest religion in the world' story, use the search function of this forum and you will find out that this also not so true !
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts.
Sign Up
Bookmarks