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Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

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    Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief? (OP)


    Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    Olbermann: We have either a president who is too dishonest to restrain himself from invoking World War III about Iran at least six weeks after he had to have known that the analogy would be fantastic, irresponsible hyperbole, or we have a president too transcendently stupid not to have asked, at what now appears to have been a series of opportunities to do so, whether the fairy tales he either created or was fed were still even remotely plausible.

    We have lived as if in a trance. We have lived as people in fear. And now our rights and our freedoms in peril we slowly awaken to learn that we have been afraid of the wrong thing.

    Therefore, tonight have we truly become the inheritors of our American legacy.

    For, on this first full day that the Military Commissions Act is in force, we now face what our ancestors faced, at other times of exaggerated crisis and melodramatic fear-mongering:

    A government more dangerous to our liberty, than is the enemy it claims to protect us from.

    We have been here before
    and we have been here before, led here by men better and wiser and nobler than George W. Bush.

    We have been here when President John Adams insisted that the Alien and Sedition Acts were necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use those acts to jail newspaper editors.

    American newspaper editors, in American jails, for things they wrote about America.

    We have been here when President Woodrow Wilson insisted that the Espionage Act was necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use that Act to prosecute 2,000 Americans, especially those he disparaged as "Hyphenated Americans," most of whom were guilty only of advocating peace in a time of war.

    American public speakers, in American jails, for things they said about America.

    And we have been here when President Franklin D. Roosevelt insisted that Executive Order 9066 was necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use that order to imprison and pauperize 110,000 Americans while his man in charge, General DeWitt, told Congress: "It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen
    he is still a Japanese."

    American citizens, in American camps, for something they neither wrote nor said nor did, but for the choices they or their ancestors had made about coming to America.

    Each of these actions was undertaken for the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

    And each was a betrayal of that for which the president who advocated them claimed to be fighting.

    Adams and his party were swept from office, and the Alien and Sedition Acts erased.

    Many of the very people Wilson silenced survived him, and one of them even ran to succeed him, and got 900,000 votes, though his presidential campaign was conducted entirely from his jail cell.

    And Roosevelt's internment of the Japanese was not merely the worst blight on his record, but it would necessitate a formal apology from the government of the United States to the citizens of the United States whose lives it ruined.

    The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

    In times of fright, we have been only human.

    We have let Roosevelt's "fear of fear itself" overtake us.

    We have listened to the little voice inside that has said, "the wolf is at the door; this will be temporary; this will be precise; this too shall pass."

    We have accepted that the only way to stop the terrorists is to let the government become just a little bit like the terrorists.

    Just the way we once accepted that the only way to stop the Soviets was to let the government become just a little bit like the Soviets.

    Or substitute the Japanese. Or the Germans. Or the Socialists. Or the Anarchists. Or the Immigrants. Or the British. Or the Aliens.

    The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

    And, always, always wrong.

    "With the distance of history, the questions will be narrowed and few: Did this generation of Americans take the threat seriously, and did we do what it takes to defeat that threat?"

    Wise words.

    And ironic ones, Mr. Bush.

    Your own, of course, yesterday, in signing the Military Commissions Act.

    You spoke so much more than you know, Sir.

    Sadly
    of coursethe distance of history will recognize that the threat this generation of Americans needed to take seriously was you.

    We have a long and painful history of ignoring the prophecy attributed to Benjamin Franklin that "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    But even within this history we have not before codified the poisoning of habeas corpus, that wellspring of protection from which all essential liberties flow.

    You, sir, have now befouled that spring.

    You, sir, have now given us chaos and called it order.

    You, sir, have now imposed subjugation and called it freedom.

    For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

    And
    again, Mr. Bush all of them, wrong.

    We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who has said it is unacceptable to compare anything this country has ever done to anything the terrorists have ever done.

    We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who has insisted again that "the United States does not torture. It's against our laws and it's against our values" and who has said it with a straight face while the pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison and the stories of Waterboarding figuratively fade in and out, around him.

    We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who may now, if he so decides, declare not merely any non-American citizens "unlawful enemy combatants" and ship them somewhere
    anywhere -- but may now, if he so decides, declare you an "unlawful enemy combatant" and ship you somewhere - anywhere.

    And if you think this hyperbole or hysteria, ask the newspaper editors when John Adams was president or the pacifists when Woodrow Wilson was president or the Japanese at Manzanar when Franklin Roosevelt was president.

    And if you somehow think habeas corpus has not been suspended for American citizens but only for everybody else, ask yourself this: If you are pulled off the street tomorrow, and they call you an alien or an undocumented immigrant or an "unlawful enemy combatant"
    exactly how are you going to convince them to give you a court hearing to prove you are not? Do you think this attorney general is going to help you?

    This President now has his blank check.

    He lied to get it.

    He lied as he received it.

    Is there any reason to even hope he has not lied about how he intends to use it nor who he intends to use it against?

    "These military commissions will provide a fair trial," you told us yesterday, Mr. Bush, "in which the accused are presumed innocent, have access to an attorney and can hear all the evidence against them."

    "Presumed innocent," Mr. Bush?

    The very piece of paper you signed as you said that, allows for the detainees to be abused up to the point just before they sustain "serious mental and physical trauma" in the hope of getting them to incriminate themselves, and may no longer even invoke The Geneva Conventions in their own defense.

    "Access to an attorney," Mr. Bush?

    Lieutenant Commander Charles Swift said on this program, Sir, and to the Supreme Court, that he was only granted access to his detainee defendant on the promise that the detainee would plead guilty.

    "Hearing all the evidence," Mr. Bush?

    The Military Commissions Act specifically permits the introduction of classified evidence not made available to the defense.

    Your words are lies, Sir.

    They are lies that imperil us all.

    "One of the terrorists believed to have planned the 9/11 attacks," you told us yesterday, "said he hoped the attacks would be the beginning of the end of America."

    That terrorist, sir, could only hope.

    Not his actions, nor the actions of a ceaseless line of terrorists (real or imagined), could measure up to what you have wrought.

    Habeas corpus? Gone.

    The Geneva Conventions? Optional.

    The moral force we shined outwards to the world as an eternal beacon, and inwards at ourselves as an eternal protection? Snuffed out.

    These things you have done, Mr. Bush, they would be "the beginning of the end of America."

    And did it even occur to you once, sir
    somewhere in amidst those eight separate, gruesome, intentional, terroristic invocations of the horrors of 9/11 -- that with only a little further shift in this world we now know just a touch more repudiation of all of that for which our patriots died --- did it ever occur to you once that in just 27 months and two days from now when you leave office, some irresponsible future president and a "competent tribunal" of lackeys would be entitled, by the actions of your own hand, to declare the status of "unlawful enemy combatant" for -- and convene a Military Commission to try -- not John Walker Lindh, but George Walker Bush?

    For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

    And doubtless, Sir, all of them
    as always wrong.

    © 2008 MSNBC Interactive




    -------------



    Olbermann: On waterboarding and torture
    Olbermann to Bush: 'Your hypocrisy is so vast'
    Bush just playing us with 'troop withdrawal'
    Comment: Go to Iraq and fight, Mr. President
    Olbermann: All hail the prophetic gut!
    Olbermann: Bush, Cheney should resign

    ------------

    Olbermann: 'Beginning of the end of America' Olbermann addresses the Military Commissions Act in a special comment
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15321167/





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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

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    Still nothing in there about suspending habias corpus for U.S. citizens...
    Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    Do we know what habeas Corpus is? Because the MCA basically wipes that out.

    It does say an ALIEN but in the terms its used it can be used against anyone who is considered an enemy of the government.

    If you have proof that habeas corpus hasn't been suspended please enlighten us.

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    format_quote Originally Posted by JeffX View Post
    Do we know what habeas Corpus is? Because the MCA basically wipes that out.

    It does say an ALIEN but in the terms its used it can be used against anyone who is considered an enemy of the government.

    If you have proof that habeas corpus hasn't been suspended please enlighten us.
    In 2007 a federal appeals court ruled that Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, a legal U.S. citizen, could not be held indefinitely without charge. The court, 4th Circuit Court of Appeals, ruled that the President of the United States lacked the legal authority to detain al-Marri without charge and that traditional habeas corpus applied to him as a U.S. citizen. Seems alive and well to me.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_...#United_States
    Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    format_quote Originally Posted by JeffX View Post
    Do we know what habeas Corpus is? Because the MCA basically wipes that out.
    I realize someone told you that, but, as much fun as it might be, it is simply not true.

    It does say an ALIEN but in the terms its used it can be used against anyone who is considered an enemy of the government.
    The law defines "alien" as someone "who is not a citizen of the United States". How much more clear could that be? It's in plain English.

    If you have proof that habeas corpus hasn't been suspended please enlighten us.
    No, it is your duty to prove it has, as that is the claim you made. You can't expect one to "prove the negative". The law also does not impose catch limits on fishermen or change the size of no-parking zones around fire hydrants either. I can't prove that it doesn't do these things as there is no language that is germane. Similarly, there is no language that Habeas corpus "is not supspended" for citizens. There is no need to say such a thing as it is Constitutionally protected.

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    He's a nut-case! I've never been hit with so many blatant lies in one sitting before. Sometime next year, I hope to make public the report I sent out to all the politicians and humanitarian groups here - I call it "The Twenty Seven List" which contains the top 27 blatant lies that were told to Americans. That's my best get even!

    I cannot believe the number of people who have died over this ********!

    The Ninth Scribe
    Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    wwwislamicboardcom - Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    He's both... and then some!

    I loved that comment (made by, I think it was Chavez - I could be wrong as I have a horrible memory for names) that he leaves a cloud of sulfur when he leaves! Bwahahaha!

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    Like Chavez is the light of virtue.
    Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi View Post
    Like Chavez is the light of virtue.
    I never said he was. I just found his comment to be quite amusing.

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    format_quote Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl View Post
    He's both... and then some!

    I loved that comment (made by, I think it was Chavez - I could be wrong as I have a horrible memory for names) that he leaves a cloud of sulfur when he leaves! Bwahahaha!
    Yes...isn't that clever..Bush as "El Diablo". Chavez is perhaps the first person in the history of humankind to liken his opponent to "the devil". What brilliance! I'm sure many at the UN were overawed to find such a literary genius springing from the lowly "Indios". He is no less than the Latino Guillermo Shakespeare!

    Hugo Chavez is an anti-democratic, tin-pot dictator in the making. Even the other Leftists in South America have grown weary of his self-aggrandizing antics. If it weren't for oil, Venezuela would "that country West of Guyana".

    Here is a hilarious clip of King Juan Carlos of Spain running out patience with the self-important Chavez who continues to blabber on. Juan Carlos leans forward and says (unregally) "porque no te calles?".."why don't you shut up?"

    http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com...hing-deep.html

    Spaniards thought it was so funny it has become a cellphone ring tone in Spain

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Yes...isn't that clever..Bush as "El Diablo". Chavez is perhaps the first person in the history of humankind to liken his opponent to "the devil". What brilliance! I'm sure many at the UN were overawed to find such a literary genius springing from the lowly "Indios". He is no less than the Latino Guillermo Shakespeare!
    Can the sarcasm! I know it's not a new accusation, I just liked the "cloud of sulfur" reference (instead of simply calling him the devil).
    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Hugo Chavez is an anti-democratic, tin-pot dictator in the making. Even the other Leftists in South America have grown weary of his self-aggrandizing antics. If it weren't for oil, Venezuela would "that country West of Guyana".
    I am studying hispanic civilization right now (talking of mainland Spain and America, pre and post colonialism), so I know Mr. Chavez isn't a great (or even mediocre) example of a human being. Anyway, I am not here to get into a huge political debate, just making it clear that just because I find what he said funny doesn't mean I think the guy is good or that he should be the head of a country (or the head of anything for that matter).
    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Here is a hilarious clip of King Juan Carlos of Spain running out patience with the self-important Chavez who continues to blabber on. Juan Carlos leans forward and says (unregally) "porque no te calles?".."why don't you shut up?"

    http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com...hing-deep.html

    Spaniards thought it was so funny it has become a cellphone ring tone in Spain
    I'll make sure to check this out when I get home - maybe I'll have something else to laugh at. :smile:

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    format_quote Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl View Post
    ..Anyway, I am not here to get into a huge political debate, just making it clear that just because I find what he said funny doesn't mean I think the guy is good or that he should be the head of a country (or the head of anything for that matter).

    I'll make sure to check this out when I get home - maybe I'll have something else to laugh at. :smile:
    Fair enough..though your original comment can hardly be said to be free of political meaning :smile:

    The Juan Carlos clip is funny.

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti View Post
    Fair enough..though your original comment can hardly be said to be free of political meaning :smile:
    I don't like Bush, and I certainly am not going to hide it. He's to blame for the deaths of many. I just hope to God that my cousin comes home from his 1+ year tour in Afghanistan alive and not in a pine box.

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    I go back to the Juan Carlos clip from time to time...always good for a laugh.
    Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."

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    Re: Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?

    format_quote Originally Posted by MaiCarInMtl View Post
    I don't like Bush, and I certainly am not going to hide it. He's to blame for the deaths of many. I just hope to God that my cousin comes home from his 1+ year tour in Afghanistan alive and not in a pine box.
    Here is wishing your cousin well. Let us also remember those Americans killed in Al Quaeda follow-up attacks to 9-11 in the US.....oh wait....there aren't any, are there?


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