Is there such a thing as a "Moderate/Modern/Liberal" Muslim?

format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89

I am Modern/Liberal Muslim. There was an article on CNN that said Liberals and Athiests have a higher IQ than the Conservative/Religious.

I also believe a Modern/Liberal Muslim follows the Quran and hadith but also believes in the change of time and technology. As we move forward, things in life always change and Modern/Liberal Muslims adapt to the change. In another words some of the context in the Quran and Hadith may be outdated for the use of practice today.

An example of a Modern Muslim city would be Dubai, UAE.
An example of a Traditional muslim city would be any city without much growth because they are stuck with the rules of the past.

I do not want to be stuck in the past, I rather have the world grow and change into a better place for us and for the next generation.
I believe that is our purpose of life. To create a better future for the next generation and the next generation will do the same and it keeps on growing and evolving. This is how we learn new things.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26....intelligence/

We don't reject technology based on its novelty in Islam. There are good innovations.

Islam is Timeless.

Ijtihad: Applying Islam in the 21st century
By Akmal Asghar
Source: New Civilisation Magazine
The subject of ijtihad occupies a recurring theme across much contemporary Islamic literature. A tool employed by Islamic jurists, it holds the key to Islam's continual relevance and to defining an Islamic approach for solving problems in a post-modern world. Akmal Asghar provides an overview of ijtihad and its role in presenting an Islamic alternative. "Islam has long vanished from the stage of history, and has retreated into oriental ease and repose", were the words of the German philosopher George Friedrich Hegel in the middle of the nineteenth century. But as Martin Kramer, senior associate of the Moshe Dayan Centre at Tel Aviv University, remarks at Hegel's 'endist' predictions, "The persistent refusal of Islam to do just that remains one of the principal flaws of 'endism,' from Hegel to this day…" It's certainly true, despite emerging fifteen centuries ago, Islam features considerably in current global politics and has far from vanished. The phenomenon of movements advocating a 'revival' of seventh century Islam can be perplexing and their stated goal - an Islamic rule - lends itself to a number of possible criticisms.

Among the most obvious is the question of Islam's ability to tackle issues in a world vastly different to the one that first received it. As Olivier Roy describes in his book 'The Failure of Political Islam', "The irruption of Islam into the political landscape is often perceived as an anachronism; how is it possible, late in the twentieth century, to return to the Middle Ages?"

It is a genuine challenge. How does Islam deal with the rapid advances in science and technology, institutions of the post-modern world or social, economic and political trends? If Islam were unable to handle the complexities of contemporary life, it may indeed produce an outdated medieval system, causing its adherents to deny the fruits of current modernity.

Time alone, however, is not enough to render an idea invalid. The revival of ancient Greek philosophy, art and culture was termed a 'renaissance' in Europe. Many of the foundations of the West's contemporary intellectual and political tradition are associated with three millennia-old discourses still considered valid in the twenty first century. Indeed, a number of English legal statutes still in use, such as the Treason Act of 1351, date back many centuries; English common law emerged in the Middle Ages, taking from Roman law and influenced by Norman and Saxon custom; the US Bill of Rights, passed in 1791, reflects the guarantee of due process given by the Magna Carta in1215 and the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Even if only by way of example, it appears that Western scholars and jurists are willing to accept that old ideas can have a place in - indeed define - the modern world, and so comparably, the fact that Islam emerged in seventhcentury Arabia is not in itself cause to suggest its inapplicability.

Some propose that Islam's continual relevance can only come through its reform. However, the keyword for Islam's applicability in the twenty first century is not reform (islah), but the Islamic concept of ijtihad. While reform implicitly discounts the validity of an idea through suggesting that it is in need of alteration, ijtihad tackles contemporary problems using Islam's original principles and rules; it does not demand their alteration but their application.

Indeed, the subject of ijtihad addresses two important questions regarding Islam's continual relevance that are often thought to support reasons for its reform. Firstly, the specificity of Islam to the circumstances of seventh century Arabia and, secondly, the ability for the finite body of Islamic texts left by the Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him) to address ever changing human problems.

Regarding the first, Islam's legislative rules and principles are founded on a doctrine that views problems as extending from the needs of human beings as human beings. That is to say, not in their racial, regional or tribal context, or as a reaction to a particular social condition; or as Muslims or non-Muslims, but as human beings. It is only a specific doctrine inasmuch as it is specific to all human beings. It is a timeless conception of the human condition, for it is not man's nature that changes with the passage of time, but his material circumstances; the complexity of material and technology, which develop through continuous scientific endeavour.

Man's innate needs, whether basic organic requirements such as the need for food, clothing and shelter or basic instinctual drives such as survival, justice and security, remain consistent. Furthermore, the needs that extend from this basic constitution such as the need to regulate political, social and economic relationships individually or collectively are also seen to exist across the expanse of human history. Though their manifestations may change, it could not be said that new needs have manifested or that the existing ones always increase, either in complexity or propensity. New world-views, thoughts and beliefs may develop over time and emerge at various points in human history, but these too do not represent a shift in man's fundamental nature, intellect or needs. Since the Islamic system addresses problems as demands extending from this consistent human nature, it is continually applicable and a consistent source of solutions for tackling human problems.

Indeed, it is not thoughts, but things that time may render obsolete. An idea is invalidated by identifying its intellectual shortcomings whereas material things are replaced and considered obsolete as scientific and engineering progress produces increasing material sophistication.

Ijtihad is a legal tool employed by jurists to extract legislation for any number of new problems from the original Islamic texts. It is a defined process established by Mohammed (peace be upon him) during his lifetime and allows the finite body of Islamic texts to address, in detail, previously unfamiliar events. The key aspects of ijtihad that make this possible relate to analogy and to a process of linking the subject matter of contemporary problems with similar occurrences in the Islamic texts and precepts. The pivotal role of analogy in the process ijtihad is such that the leading Islamic jurist Mohammed Idris al-Shafi'i, in his book al-Risalah, went as far as to equate the two:


"…and ijtihad is qiyas (analogy)". More broadly, ijtihad consists of three general stages: first, to objectively understand in detail the reality of the problem, question or dilemma for which a solution is sought, which may demand specific knowledge if relating to a particular area of expertise, for example, relevant scientific competence if tackling issues relating to stem cell research, or economic and financial expertise if evaluating a complex financial product; second, to identify the Islamic texts, concepts and laws which discuss a relevant, or similar, subject matter; third, to analogise between the current issue and the relevant texts in the original Islamic sources to identify similarities and differences, and through a process of weighing these similarities and differences xtract a position on the current issue. Each element is considerably more elaborate and requires
expertise and competence in Islamic jurisprudence, the sciences of Islamic sources, and of Islamic legal maxims, legal principles and specific legal definitions. The competence to apply the process of ijtihad defines an Islamic scholar (mujtahid), but the process is not reserved to a priestly class or clergy. The qualification is open to all, men and women, who wish to gain sufficient competence in Islamic jurisprudence to practise ijtihad and to work as a judge, advocate or legal expert.

The scope of ijtihad, it is important to note, does not extend to things, including the products of scientific and technological progress; the general principle is that they are useable without restriction. They are only addressed when specific questions about their use gives rise to other human problems. For example, in developments relating to genetic engineering, the technology is not rejected, but its use may be defined to prevent human cloning due to its impact on marriage and genealogy.

The substantial progress many historians note in early Islamic history was made possible through the continuous use of Ijtihad. It allowed the Caliphate to tackle numerous political, social and economic problems that had not previously confronted the Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). The expansion of its territories brought it into contact with foreign cultures and differing political structures, whether those of Greek, Persian or south Asian origin, in the second century of

the Hijri calendar (ninth century CE), and with it their customs, traditions and practices, and their own models of organising and regulating society. This expansion created parallel internal challenges whether relating to the rights, distribution or productivity of land; the rights of minorities or the administration of the expanding state apparatus, with its specific questions about qualifications for rule, organisation of the judiciary, accountability, ascension and removal of people from posts of power. Indeed, these foreign and internal challenges acted to provide a continuous demand for the use of ijtihad, to develop perspectives and provide a legislative framework with which to deal with them. It produced a rich and healthy legislative, political and intellectual atmosphere and with it generations of some of the most accomplished mujtahids, both Shiah and

Sunni, in Islamic history. Among them, the Kufi (Iraqi) Imams such as Numan bin Thabit ('Abu Hanifah'), North Africans such as al-Layth ibn Sa'd, Arabs such as Malik ibn Anas and Mohammed Shafi'i, and later Andalusians, such as ibn Hazm, Central Asians and many others, whose impact has been such that much of the body of Islamic jurisprudence lies, to this day, within the framework of their endeavours.

Indeed, the absence of ijtihad would have been debilitating, positively paralysing, for the progress of the Islamic world historically. And it is exactly why when its use slowly declined from the tenth century and when, in the thirteenth century after the destruction of the seat of learning in Baghdad by the Mongols, it was suggested that its use be discontinued - an event of commonly referred to as 'the closure of the gates of Ijtihad' by Islamic historians - the Islamic world fell into a slow decline.

The loss of ijtihad amounted to a denial of oxygen to the bloodstream of the legislative and political processes in the Islamic world, rendering the Caliphate incapacitated in the face of new problems and challenges. For a while, jurists relied on annotating the conclusions of previous jurists, far removed from the primary Islamic legislative texts, a practice that promoted imitation (taqlid) and stifled thinking. But when confronted with a European mindset distinctly more ideological than the one it confronted in its siege of Vienna, having gone through its 'enlightenment', the extent of the decline in the Islamic world became apparent. Unable to respond to the intellectual and technological challenges it now confronted, the Caliphate, due to the absence of ijtihad, failed to clearly evaluate its position on a number of fronts. This produced the bizarre situation during the nineteenth century where, on the one hand, European legislative codes were being introduced in their swathes while on the other, the Caliphate initially rejected inventions as simple as the printing press. The Islamic world, therefore, was in no position to present Islam's alternative political philosophy, and some interpreted events as highlighting deficiencies within Islam itself; indeed numerous individuals set about advocating its reform. But when evaluating reformist thought, whether that of Jamal ad-Din Afghani (1839-1897), Sir Syed Ahmed Khan (1817-1898), Mohammed Abduh (1849-1905), Taha Husayn (1889-1973) or others, one finds that reform did not offer analternative but was an implicit - often explicit - call to integrate into Europe's intellectual and political culture. Indeed, some even ironically advocated a revival of 'ijtihad'. However, their definition of the word was often more secular than Islamic, using as they did the literal meaning 'jahada' or 'to exert' which was taken to mean a call to exhaust independent intellectual effort as opposed to a juristic process to derive distinctly Islamic solutions to contemporary problems based on its original texts.

Islam is no stranger to foreign or alterative ideas and cultures and the challenges they bring. Western political philosophy presents the current alternative and contemporary events, problems and dilemmas present a spectrum of challenges. The Muslim world is now in need of perspective on issues from globalisation, the free market and liberalism to genetics, stem cell research and cloning. Ijtihad provides the ability to present Islamic perspectives, indeed alternative approaches, for each of these, and is why, for example, Farooq Khan, in his article "Re-defining the Globalisation debate", is able to suggest, "Islam…can be argued as not only the first global political philosophy but the only political philosophy that can capture the forces of globalisation…" A revival in the use of ijtihad marks an important step in presenting a practical Islamic alternative.

format_quote Originally Posted by transition?

Islam is Timeless.

Ijtihad: Applying Islam in the 21st century
By Akmal Asghar
Source: New Civilisation Magazine
The subject of ijtihad occupies a recurring theme across much contemporary Islamic literature. A tool employed by Islamic jurists, it holds the key to Islam's continual relevance and to defining an Islamic approach for solving problems in a post-modern world. Akmal Asghar provides an overview of ijtihad and its role in presenting an Islamic alternative. "Islam has long vanished from the stage of history, and has retreated into oriental ease and repose", were the words of the German philosopher George Friedrich Hegel in the middle of the nineteenth century. But as Martin Kramer, senior associate of the Moshe Dayan Centre at Tel Aviv University, remarks at Hegel's 'endist' predictions, "The persistent refusal of Islam to do just that remains one of the principal flaws of 'endism,' from Hegel to this day…" It's certainly true, despite emerging fifteen centuries ago, Islam features considerably in current global politics and has far from vanished. The phenomenon of movements advocating a 'revival' of seventh century Islam can be perplexing and their stated goal - an Islamic rule - lends itself to a number of possible criticisms.

Among the most obvious is the question of Islam's ability to tackle issues in a world vastly different to the one that first received it. As Olivier Roy describes in his book 'The Failure of Political Islam', "The irruption of Islam into the political landscape is often perceived as an anachronism; how is it possible, late in the twentieth century, to return to the Middle Ages?"

It is a genuine challenge. How does Islam deal with the rapid advances in science and technology, institutions of the post-modern world or social, economic and political trends? If Islam were unable to handle the complexities of contemporary life, it may indeed produce an outdated medieval system, causing its adherents to deny the fruits of current modernity.

Time alone, however, is not enough to render an idea invalid. The revival of ancient Greek philosophy, art and culture was termed a 'renaissance' in Europe. Many of the foundations of the West's contemporary intellectual and political tradition are associated with three millennia-old discourses still considered valid in the twenty first century. Indeed, a number of English legal statutes still in use, such as the Treason Act of 1351, date back many centuries; English common law emerged in the Middle Ages, taking from Roman law and influenced by Norman and Saxon custom; the US Bill of Rights, passed in 1791, reflects the guarantee of due process given by the Magna Carta in1215 and the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Even if only by way of example, it appears that Western scholars and jurists are willing to accept that old ideas can have a place in - indeed define - the modern world, and so comparably, the fact that Islam emerged in seventhcentury Arabia is not in itself cause to suggest its inapplicability.

Some propose that Islam's continual relevance can only come through its reform. However, the keyword for Islam's applicability in the twenty first century is not reform (islah), but the Islamic concept of ijtihad. While reform implicitly discounts the validity of an idea through suggesting that it is in need of alteration, ijtihad tackles contemporary problems using Islam's original principles and rules; it does not demand their alteration but their application.

Indeed, the subject of ijtihad addresses two important questions regarding Islam's continual relevance that are often thought to support reasons for its reform. Firstly, the specificity of Islam to the circumstances of seventh century Arabia and, secondly, the ability for the finite body of Islamic texts left by the Prophet of Islam (peace be upon him) to address ever changing human problems.

Regarding the first, Islam's legislative rules and principles are founded on a doctrine that views problems as extending from the needs of human beings as human beings. That is to say, not in their racial, regional or tribal context, or as a reaction to a particular social condition; or as Muslims or non-Muslims, but as human beings. It is only a specific doctrine inasmuch as it is specific to all human beings. It is a timeless conception of the human condition, for it is not man's nature that changes with the passage of time, but his material circumstances; the complexity of material and technology, which develop through continuous scientific endeavour.

Man's innate needs, whether basic organic requirements such as the need for food, clothing and shelter or basic instinctual drives such as survival, justice and security, remain consistent. Furthermore, the needs that extend from this basic constitution such as the need to regulate political, social and economic relationships individually or collectively are also seen to exist across the expanse of human history. Though their manifestations may change, it could not be said that new needs have manifested or that the existing ones always increase, either in complexity or propensity. New world-views, thoughts and beliefs may develop over time and emerge at various points in human history, but these too do not represent a shift in man's fundamental nature, intellect or needs. Since the Islamic system addresses problems as demands extending from this consistent human nature, it is continually applicable and a consistent source of solutions for tackling human problems.

Indeed, it is not thoughts, but things that time may render obsolete. An idea is invalidated by identifying its intellectual shortcomings whereas material things are replaced and considered obsolete as scientific and engineering progress produces increasing material sophistication.

Ijtihad is a legal tool employed by jurists to extract legislation for any number of new problems from the original Islamic texts. It is a defined process established by Mohammed (peace be upon him) during his lifetime and allows the finite body of Islamic texts to address, in detail, previously unfamiliar events. The key aspects of ijtihad that make this possible relate to analogy and to a process of linking the subject matter of contemporary problems with similar occurrences in the Islamic texts and precepts. The pivotal role of analogy in the process ijtihad is such that the leading Islamic jurist Mohammed Idris al-Shafi'i, in his book al-Risalah, went as far as to equate the two:


"…and ijtihad is qiyas (analogy)". More broadly, ijtihad consists of three general stages: first, to objectively understand in detail the reality of the problem, question or dilemma for which a solution is sought, which may demand specific knowledge if relating to a particular area of expertise, for example, relevant scientific competence if tackling issues relating to stem cell research, or economic and financial expertise if evaluating a complex financial product; second, to identify the Islamic texts, concepts and laws which discuss a relevant, or similar, subject matter; third, to analogise between the current issue and the relevant texts in the original Islamic sources to identify similarities and differences, and through a process of weighing these similarities and differences xtract a position on the current issue. Each element is considerably more elaborate and requires
expertise and competence in Islamic jurisprudence, the sciences of Islamic sources, and of Islamic legal maxims, legal principles and specific legal definitions. The competence to apply the process of ijtihad defines an Islamic scholar (mujtahid), but the process is not reserved to a priestly class or clergy. The qualification is open to all, men and women, who wish to gain sufficient competence in Islamic jurisprudence to practise ijtihad and to work as a judge, advocate or legal expert.

The scope of ijtihad, it is important to note, does not extend to things, including the products of scientific and technological progress; the general principle is that they are useable without restriction. They are only addressed when specific questions about their use gives rise to other human problems. For example, in developments relating to genetic engineering, the technology is not rejected, but its use may be defined to prevent human cloning due to its impact on marriage and genealogy.

The substantial progress many historians note in early Islamic history was made possible through the continuous use of Ijtihad. It allowed the Caliphate to tackle numerous political, social and economic problems that had not previously confronted the Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). The expansion of its territories brought it into contact with foreign cultures and differing political structures, whether those of Greek, Persian or south Asian origin, in the second century of

the Hijri calendar (ninth century CE), and with it their customs, traditions and practices, and their own models of organising and regulating society. This expansion created parallel internal challenges whether relating to the rights, distribution or productivity of land; the rights of minorities or the administration of the expanding state apparatus, with its specific questions about qualifications for rule, organisation of the judiciary, accountability, ascension and removal of people from posts of power. Indeed, these foreign and internal challenges acted to provide a continuous demand for the use of ijtihad, to develop perspectives and provide a legislative framework with which to deal with them. It produced a rich and healthy legislative, political and intellectual atmosphere and with it generations of some of the most accomplished mujtahids, both Shiah and

Sunni, in Islamic history. Among them, the Kufi (Iraqi) Imams such as Numan bin Thabit ('Abu Hanifah'), North Africans such as al-Layth ibn Sa'd, Arabs such as Malik ibn Anas and Mohammed Shafi'i, and later Andalusians, such as ibn Hazm, Central Asians and many others, whose impact has been such that much of the body of Islamic jurisprudence lies, to this day, within the framework of their endeavours.

Indeed, the absence of ijtihad would have been debilitating, positively paralysing, for the progress of the Islamic world historically. And it is exactly why when its use slowly declined from the tenth century and when, in the thirteenth century after the destruction of the seat of learning in Baghdad by the Mongols, it was suggested that its use be discontinued - an event of commonly referred to as 'the closure of the gates of Ijtihad' by Islamic historians - the Islamic world fell into a slow decline.

The loss of ijtihad amounted to a denial of oxygen to the bloodstream of the legislative and political processes in the Islamic world, rendering the Caliphate incapacitated in the face of new problems and challenges. For a while, jurists relied on annotating the conclusions of previous jurists, far removed from the primary Islamic legislative texts, a practice that promoted imitation (taqlid) and stifled thinking. But when confronted with a European mindset distinctly more ideological than the one it confronted in its siege of Vienna, having gone through its 'enlightenment', the extent of the decline in the Islamic world became apparent. Unable to respond to the intellectual and technological challenges it now confronted, the Caliphate, due to the absence of ijtihad, failed to clearly evaluate its position on a number of fronts. This produced the bizarre situation during the nineteenth century where, on the one hand, European legislative codes were being introduced in their swathes while on the other, the Caliphate initially rejected inventions as simple as the printing press. The Islamic world, therefore, was in no position to present Islam's alternative political philosophy, and some interpreted events as highlighting deficiencies within Islam itself; indeed numerous individuals set about advocating its reform. But when evaluating reformist thought, whether that of Jamal ad-Din Afghani (1839-1897), Sir Syed Ahmed Khan (1817-1898), Mohammed Abduh (1849-1905), Taha Husayn (1889-1973) or others, one finds that reform did not offer analternative but was an implicit - often explicit - call to integrate into Europe's intellectual and political culture. Indeed, some even ironically advocated a revival of 'ijtihad'. However, their definition of the word was often more secular than Islamic, using as they did the literal meaning 'jahada' or 'to exert' which was taken to mean a call to exhaust independent intellectual effort as opposed to a juristic process to derive distinctly Islamic solutions to contemporary problems based on its original texts.

Islam is no stranger to foreign or alterative ideas and cultures and the challenges they bring. Western political philosophy presents the current alternative and contemporary events, problems and dilemmas present a spectrum of challenges. The Muslim world is now in need of perspective on issues from globalisation, the free market and liberalism to genetics, stem cell research and cloning. Ijtihad provides the ability to present Islamic perspectives, indeed alternative approaches, for each of these, and is why, for example, Farooq Khan, in his article "Re-defining the Globalisation debate", is able to suggest, "Islam…can be argued as not only the first global political philosophy but the only political philosophy that can capture the forces of globalisation…" A revival in the use of ijtihad marks an important step in presenting a practical Islamic alternative.

Islam is timeless not because it can evolve and change. Islam is timeless because it can withstand the tormenting flow of time without changing itself. If Islam is open to evolution, I have no reason to follow Islam and not other religions. All worldly religions, except Islam, have evolved over the last 1000 years (Sikhism is young but still evolved). Even Islam evolved as we see 199999 sects today but at least Islam sources of knowledge (Quran and Sunnah) are intact. Islam's stubbornness to challenge the flows of time and change is the only thing which convinces me that there is a God and He is one who sent Muhammad as a messenger.

I will give up Islam the day I find out that Quran has been changed because it would mean God could not protect His word for us.

format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist

Islam is timeless not because it can evolve and change. Islam is timeless because it can withstand the tormenting flow of time without changing itself. If Islam is open to evolution, I have no reason to follow Islam and not other religions. All worldly religions, except Islam, have evolved over the last 1000 years (Sikhism is young but still evolved). Even Islam evolved as we see 199999 sects today but at least Islam sources of knowledge (Quran and Sunnah) are intact. Islam's stubbornness to challenge the flows of time and change is the only thing which convinces me that there is a God and He is one who sent Muhammad as a messenger.

I will give up Islam the day I find out that Quran has been changed because it would mean God could not protect His word for us.

Akh, Allah is Most Just. Don't worry about Allah not keeping His Promises, rather worry about His Promises, especially the promise of Hellfire for the disobedient and disbelieving.

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

I don't watch bollywood movies, I can't stand them just like most I can't stand the south asian culture.

Sharukh Khan is not a muslim

Shah Rukh Khan is a Muslim . His profession is still Haraam though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ1w2sEkdjU

format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce

Shah Rukh Khan is a Muslim . His profession is still Haraam though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ1w2sEkdjU

from the same site, astagfirullah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn99gU_z49Y

format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89

I drink at social gatherings. Wine has been proved to be good for the heart and if prophet Mohammed was alive today he also would approve drinking wine. I do not drink irresponsibly, I make sure I know where my limits are. The verse in the Quran are more directed for the people that abuse the habit.

Every alcoholic was initially a social drinker.
Many may argue in favour of liquor by calling themselves ‘social drinkers’. They claim that they only have one or two pegs and they have self-control and so never get intoxicated. Investigations reveal that every alcoholic started as a social drinker. Not a single alcoholic or drunkard initially starts drinking with the intention of becoming an alcoholic or a drunkard. No social drinker can say that I have been having alcohol for several years and that I have so much self-control that I have never been intoxicated even a single time.

If a person is intoxicated just once and commits something shameful, it will remain with him for a lifetime.
Suppose a ‘social drinker’ loses his self-control just once. In a state of intoxication he commits rape or incest. Even if the act is later regretted, a normal human being is likely to carry the guilt throughout his life. Both the perpetrator and the victim are irreparably and irreversibly damaged

Maybe Allah should send another prophet or bring back Prophet Mohammed to keep us updated tho.

What do you mean , "he should send another Prophet" ,All the guidance has been given to us in the Quran and Allah(SWT) has already told that he has perfected the religion

"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon You, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."(Qur'an. 5:3)

It is you who has to who will have to change your habits , Allah's Law will not change

format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce

Every alcoholic was initially a social drinker.
Many may argue in favour of liquor by calling themselves ‘social drinkers’. They claim that they only have one or two pegs and they have self-control and so never get intoxicated. Investigations reveal that every alcoholic started as a social drinker. Not a single alcoholic or drunkard initially starts drinking with the intention of becoming an alcoholic or a drunkard. No social drinker can say that I have been having alcohol for several years and that I have so much self-control that I have never been intoxicated even a single time.

If a person is intoxicated just once and commits something shameful, it will remain with him for a lifetime.
Suppose a ‘social drinker’ loses his self-control just once. In a state of intoxication he commits rape or incest. Even if the act is later regretted, a normal human being is likely to carry the guilt throughout his life. Both the perpetrator and the victim are irreparably and irreversibly damaged



What do you mean , "he should send another Prophet" ,All the guidance has been given to us in the Quran and Allah(SWT) has already told that he has perfected the religion

"This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon You, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."(Qur'an. 5:3)

It is you who has to who will have to change your habits , Allah's Law will not change

That is true but only to some people. I am not a heavy drinker. I only drink at formal parties and everyone is having a good time and enjoying/laughing. I dont drink and party like the crazy teenagers you see on Tv or the net. I have a lot of self control and know where my limits are.

To the other guys, Shah Rukh Khan is an example of a modern muslim.. I am more like him and believe in freedom and respect for other people regardless of what religion they are from.

For the part about sending another Prophet or even Prophet Mohammed again, why not come back to create an updated version of the Quran or maybe even come back to correct/confirm the writings of the Hadiths. If he comes back, then definitely there will be more followers of Islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89

That is true but only to some people. I am not a heavy drinker. I only drink at formal parties and everyone is having a good time and enjoying/laughing. I dont drink and party like the crazy teenagers you see on Tv or the net. I have a lot of self control and know where my limits are.

To the other guys, Shah Rukh Khan is an example of a modern muslim.. I am more like him and believe in freedom and respect for other people regardless of what religion they are from.

For the part about sending another Prophet or even Prophet Mohammed again, why not come back to create an updated version of the Quran or maybe even come back to correct/confirm the writings of the Hadiths. If he comes back, then definitely there will be more followers of Islam.

So you're more like a hindu than you are muslim, only believing in what you feel like. And if by freedom you mean freedom to commit immoral acts, then islam does not give that kind of freedom, respect for others has always been part of islam don't suggest that it isn't, you only have to look at the example of our prophet.

To the other guys, Shah Rukh Khan is an example of a modern muslim.. I am more like him and believe in freedom and respect for other people regardless of what religion they are from.

Actors such as Shah Rukh or Salman khan should not be taken as role models for Muslims as they imitate the disbelievers.
As you saw in that video Shah Rukh put the Quran next to those idols and here in this video you see Salman worshipping a Ganesha Idol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKSzB3VcwQ

When a Muslim blindly imitates the West, he turns into a loyal supporter of their beliefs and customs; he is like one who tries to reform something but spoils it while he is unaware. He is just like a defeated follower, like a baby who bites and severs his mother's breast while it is in his mouth. Such a person does not know that blind copying of the West involves hidden hazards and that our rights, honor and dignity are violated by such imitation and imbecilic pride.


If a human being stays in the company of a certain type of animal, he would pick up some of its features; that is why, for example, those who tend camels are known for their pride and arrogance, while shepherds are known to be humble and calm, whereas those who raise both camels and mules acquire some of the bad attributes of both

The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam spoke the truth when he said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." (Ahmad & Abu Dawood)

Imitating polytheists and atheists in their clothing, customs, rules, politics and economics has become widespread among many Muslims to a very large extent, so much so that the one who blindly imitates and tries to Westernize might even be respected by the foolish masses and the youth, including the rich, intellectuals and even the poor, who are attracted to such a person.

It has trapped some Muslim generations in the dark, narrow prisons of subordination and dependence, and prevented them from thinking, meditating and heading for glory. It has blocked the means to the real happiness of their souls.

format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89

Wine has been proved to be good for the heart .

You dont have to drink wine , if you want to a good heart. There are a huge number of other foods which are good for a heart and they wont damage your brain

http://health.slides.kaboose.com/219...s-heart-health

No offense , but You seemed to have been blinded from reasoning because of your desire for wine.

Im writing this to SMA89 , even though i wanted to contribute to this thread a long time ago but never really got the chance, so i will try to sum up some of my thoughts here.

Bro as far as some of your claims go, i disagree with them a lot,

It seems to me that u think that a person cannot be modern or succesful and a practising muslim at the same time, like if a person would follow islam he would be left out or left behind in this time, i think that very wrong, Islam does not in any way stop us from Innovation in the worldy sciences or seeking all sorts of knowledge rather it actualy commands us to learn n to be uptodate n to excel in the diffrent fields of life.

There are many exapmples for that, and how come a person not be a modern person n still follow islam, what stops him?

Let me share a few people with u that i know n lets conmapre where U are in reagrds to them, coz u are such a modern person.

1- Salah Bu Khatir

A UAE ( dubai/sharjah etc) Natioanl , western educated , very well mannered n well educated , a billionaire , a very very succesful business man n also a very succesful chairman of one of the most succesful schools here, School of creative science.

have a look for urself, his group of companies is very succesful its current aggregate annual turnover stands at AED 3 billion approximately!! that close to half a billion pounds or one billion us dollars.

http://www.bukhatir.com/ check it out , his school wins awards every year for being the best in teh country n muslims n non muslims all strive to get a place in his school coz of its excellence.
http://www.bukhatir.com/companies.php?coid=17
http://www.scs-sharjah.com/english/about/index.php
At the same time the guy is the MOST famous quran recitor in UAE, and i know people from all over the country come to pray at a mosque in ramadan in which he leads, he leads not only the taraweeh but also tahajud prayers deep into the night, i have also know people who come from other neighobouring gulf countries to come here n pray behind himcoz he has the swetest voice, n the way he recites has changed many peoples lifes , u can check for ur self how he recites on youtube.

So my question to u? where do u stand from this guy? aa hafiz , and know that when a hafiz of quran leaves off quran for even a bit he can easily start to forget it , so this guy , with allllll his busy schedules n all the things he has to do n take care of n manage his empire gets time for not only his deen n religion but also to revise the quran n when ramadan comes he completely blows peoples minds up with his beautifl recitation.

Modern? Succesful? uptodate? ..... how would u describe him n how is Following Islam stopping him from al that n being a VERRRRY succeful individual , more succesful than you perhaps n the people u sociallyu drink with, n even if lets say u were more succesful than him stil u are losing , coz he is gaining this wordly benefits n success as well as his hereafter.


U claim dubai is a sucesful city n other cities are not, well true to an extent , is it coz they abandoned the deen or something n others are backwards coz they held on to deen n religion , i dont wana ay traditions , coz to me most traditions in the east n musms are NOT EVEN MUSLIM TRADITIONS so they can go to hell any day , Im talking about holding on to the deen.the authentic pure deen , a complete submission to all that was revealed n proved from the prophet in authantic narations. The cities like in pakistan n other places did not see the success as of dubai coz of many reasosn

I think first of all coz of all The Shirk , Innovations(in religion) , Fairy Tales n Khuraffffat , non sens en superstitions n lack of education , which again has notthing to do with islam coz islam promotes education n seking knowledge of the variety of sciances, so To me to reason for their backwardness in first of ALL being IGNORANT of the deen n second being uneducated n STUBBORN N STUCK, NOt STUCK with the deen though , stuck with their stupid superstiotions n CRap!

Dubai on the other hand is successful, BUT NOT ON THE COST OF THE DEEN, It was mostly coz of the oil n well the rulers and how they devoted their selfes to this country n worked for the people not liek our corrupt leaders , n well for using its location as a business hub and planning it to be a world class business hub.

this is what i wana get acroos , we can be suceful modern , educated , compete on the advanced levels in all sciences n all fields of life , why not , but at the same time we dont really need to drink or fornicate , or disapprove laws laid down by Allah for that ,we can very easily balance both.

I know people who are much much better muslims than me n also much more educated n succesful than me ,much practising than me, they can earn in a month what i earn in years , so how is islam holding them back bro!?

Just coz a person practises his deen n fears God n follows his commands n stops from what God has forbidden does not mean He does not take a plane to travel n uses a camel! it does not stop him at all , the religion will never stop u from such innovations in techonolgy n all, rather the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam has encouraged n commanded us to do so.


So me personally, i loved aviation as a kid, so i went to the states n studied aircraft engineering , came back here in 05 n worked for a while n then studied another branch of aviation , flight operations management n now im a licensed flight dispatcher , but at the same time i didnt have to SACRFICE my deen , not here in MODERN DUBAI nor in the GREAT WEST!

Rather me being on the deen has only made people to take intrest in Islam , n get them closer to Islam n got people to read about it n wonder about it, now what if i mixed with them n did in rome what the romans do , do u think i would look any diffrent at all , does that at the same time mean that i freaked them out n terrorised them n drove them away or lets say i did not respect them as human beings , NO , my attitude n behavior with non muslims n even like innovated muslism at times is even beter than with my friends n all , u knwo why , coz I represnt Islam , Im muslim n proud , Im good at what i do at work , i worked hard to be good in college n university n school , coz when people look at me they look at a muslim , when they see a muslim is soo good in studies it actually helps islam in way taht people get curious about it that hey not all muslims are like riding cames or blowing peopel up.

we are ambassadors of Islam , safeers where ever we are , and ISLAM n deen ALWAYS gives me that extra spark n energy to EXCEL in what ever is that i am doing , at work , outside , dealing with people , I have to prove im Good , and prove that muslims can do it and muslims are up there compete for the top spots but at the same time NOT SACRIFICING anything of te deen at all.

The Head of teh engineers here at Emirates ( again one of the most succeful airlines) is a local guy, i expect him to be more practsing than me , hes got a Big beautiful beard n he is good , he is soo good he even helped out AIRBUS when they got the new A380 n had issues with it , Beat that n the guy is more practising than the Imam of my masjid!

matter of fact allll the guys in top engineering positions n maintenance have go beareds n are salafi muslims who hold on to the deen n sunnah a severe adherence , does not hurt them , rather benefits them n others.


My man u know whats the problem with u , n u ar enot teh only one there are millions like u out there, specially the desi kids n youth , growing up in west or even in india/pak/bangla or places like duabi n all,

THE PROBLEM IS U ALL NEVER GOT TO SEE THE TRUE AUTHENTIC ISLAM

ALL U GOT TO SEE WAS THE CRAZ NON SENSE FAIRY TALES N SUPERSTITIONS N IGNORANCE OF YOUR ELDERS WHO WERE GOOD FOR NOTTHING AND HAD NO "AUTHENTIC" KNOWLEDGE OF THE DEEN

the religion is beautiful , satifying , soooo sweeet , soooo relaxing , sooo SIMPLE , sooo easy , Soooo Do-able , Sooo practiable, The True authentic deen makes SOOOO much sense , but these crazy sufis n mullas of the east is what has driven the youth away from it , coz it is actually scary , it makes no sense , its hard , its dry , its just unbareable what they have made out of the deen , the result? The youth gets sooo distant from teh deen , but what it should have been is that the youth should have moved away from these people n started looking for the truth n the athentic deen.


There is stilll soo much i wana say to you brother

but i will end in commenting on some of the comments u made.


bro the deen never stops u from growing n moving n achieving , neither do u have to abandon the deen for growth n evolution n to have a better future for the next generations, the deen never asks u to get stuck in the past n ride a horse or camel , u can ride a plane or a train lol , i dont know why do people think that Islam is outdated n some of the context is outdated n canot be applied , as i proved to u with exaplmes that people more educated n more succeful than u are actualy more good muslim than u n deen does not stop them at all.


Bro from all that u have said , what hurt me the most is that u actually compared Quran to Any book n even to Internet , How could u?
U said it in that taweez thread n may Allah reward the sister who made this thread for bringing it up, Bro how could u EVEN compare the words of ALLAH , the words of our lord to one who owns everything n to whom we shall all return to ANY BOOK! ? or to Internet ? its not just any book n its not no Dayum internet with all sort of people posting n writing all sort of things, please take that back n seek forgiveness for even saying that n making that comparison, U said

"You guys are giving me reference from a book which means nothing. People can write many books, but am I going to blindly follow it without knowing that they are 100% a fact? Its basically like telling me to believe everything on the internet that a random person writes"

How could u say that man , u said it means notthing! U said many people can write books , now was quran written my a person , is it just like ANY other book out there? Is it? is giving u a verse from the quran , from the speech of God like telling u whata random person writes on the internet?

Hve u just compared God witha ramdon person on the internet? Have u ?
or have u compared quran with what any person writes? Know that quran is nota book the Muhammad sala lahu alihi wa sallam wrote , nor is it outdated , Nor did The prophet sala lahu alihi wa salam consider drinking haram at that time n if he was back now he would allow it , he was not ignorant of the beneits of drinking , he did not make it haram coz he didnt knwo how good or bad it was , rather it was a comand , n we hear n we obey , this is how deen is dealth with , and it doe snot stop me from becomming a piloy does it or growing or acheieving n blah blah balh! does it?

The prophet does not need to come back n make changes to the deen so it will FIT us more , By Allah , the deen fits us perfectly , it fits billioaires , doctors , scientisist , rulers n kings but does not fir u and has to be Modified n updated???

N the prophet does not need to come back coz quran is safe n hadith is as well thanks to the peple of hadeeth in all times n even in our time , oh just reminded me of a brother who narrates hadeeth , and is also one of the best guys with F16 here, trained in US where they actualy produce them then trained in london n uk for a while then trained in turkey , but hey more knowledgable of the deen than me honestly, more practising than me , n definetly has a BIg n beautiful library , and has Ijazah a permission from major scholars like sheikh Rabee n sheikh muqbil to narrate hadeeth. How is he left out , or backward , or stuck or all that !!!??

here is a good ayah for the whole drinking Issue:
They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling.[] Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit.

so even if the prophet was to come back , he wouldnt approve drinking , coz Allah knows what is good n what is bad for his creation , n he made it haram n it reamins so untill the day of qiyamah. We do not have a choice nor are we allowed to change n do what ever we want , this is deen it has limits n ways to follow it , one can follow or not , but if one does no follow n still hopes for a reward n jannah , then who is he kidding!

Any way

After all thsi i wana say , im glad u are here , and i welcome u to this forum

i thank the sister who made thsi thread , u never know bro , may be through thsi forum u will learn thing taht u never did , coz u obviously were not taught how to follow the deen n wha tthe deen is exactly , a very comon tragedy in every desi home , they never bothered to teach us n only showed us their non sense rituals n crazy things.

so i welcome u , n i extend my hand , n i ask Allah to make this form of benefit for u , n to guide me as i think im in much need of His guidance than any of His servants, and i Ask Allah to guide the youth , Yes they are the future , the future of this world n also Islam , its up to them to change the world n to make it a better place n t ome ONLY ISLAM can do that n ALHUMDOLILLAH Islam does not stop us in any way from growth n achieveing n excelling in everything , rather Islam can bring peace , love harmony , respect , mercy , u name it , u think u respect ur mates mroe u should see some of the brothers , how they respect n treat non muslims,

we are about mercy , peace , tolerance, giving n respecting others rights , ( see the history of palestine fo rthat matter , how it has enjoyed tolerance under muslim rules ONLY) , harmony , love , respect , n giving every one their due right n More which is called Ihsaan In Islam ,

U bro have never really seen the other side of islam , the true authentic side of islam , its beauuuuuuuuuuuutiful.

Bro the west is runnning towards Islam n u our youth n muslims are running away? doesnt make any sense.

I just picked up our brothe Napoleon from the airport the other night, he is visting uae , went to saudi n made umrah n came back , gave a talk there in riyadh, he was supposed to be joined by another famous rapper as wel , Loon from p diddys bad boy records , look at these people , he is a person i met while in Usa , and stayed a good friedn since 2002 , he has a talk here at american university of duabi AUD soon. will put it up inshahAllah.
All these actors , singers , rappers , athelets are comming to islam n we are running away! Napople might not be as famous but he has been featured on amost every album of tupac shakur who has sold over 60 million records, trust me he has seen it all , why dont u search youtube n listen to some of his talks, or even loon for that matter. see how loon in such a small period of time has learnt soo much and has such a good understanding coz he hooked up with the right people , people who are on quran n sunah n away from the khuraffaat.

But i ask u to come to the people of sunnah n knowledge n InshahAllah try to learn n see , InshshAllah im sure things will make sense to u n InshahAllah u will be a very succesful man , both religiously n wordly.

All i can say is i am traumatized in a way after reading the progression of this thread, like brother Ubaid I wanted to comment earliar.. Anyway I really can not believe what some people are saying... It seems people choose what part of Islam suits them best and leave what doesnt suit them. Im no good at explaining but there are hadiths and the Quran to guide us and help us with whats wrong and right, i dont know how people come to their own conlcusions and make things that are haraam halal.

However that is their opinion and we can only advise, rest is up to Allah..

I'm not entirely sure why, in the view of certain people, Muslims must reject basic rules of Islam in order to be considerate and respectful to others, or to be enterprising, or creative.

Being a devout Muslim does not preclude scientific/economic progress etc, so long as the target of such progress is not Islamically prohibited. The parameters are quite wide.