Afghan convert 'may be released'

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DaSangarTalib

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Afghan President Hamid Karzai is leading efforts to resolve the issue of a man facing execution for converting to Christianity.

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A meeting is on in Kabul to discuss the fate of Abdul Rahman who "could be released soon" officials say.

Mr Rahman is on trial charged with rejecting Islam. He could be executed under Sharia law unless he reconverts.

The emergency meeting was called after growing international pressure on Afghanistan about the trial.


"For the sake of the national interest of 25 million Afghans, the president is trying to solve the issue," an Afghan official told the BBC.

Several countries with troops in Afghanistan have expressed their concern on the issue.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard said on Friday: "This is appalling. When I saw the report about this I felt sick, literally."

On Thursday, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice phoned Afghan President Hamid Karzai seeking a "favourable resolution" to the case.
 
My question is to the posters on this board who are in favor of executing the Afghan man in question.

If a predominantly Christian country were going to execute a former Christian who converted to another religion (in this hypothetical case, Islam) would you be ok with that?
 
Hi blunderbus,
You raise a good question.
blunderbus said:
If a predominantly Christian country were going to execute a former Christian who converted to another religion (in this hypothetical case, Islam) would you be ok with that?
Click to expand...
As a side note, this has already happened, examples include the spanish inquisition. But on to your question...

First of all, the law on apostasy has been explained here and here. It is commonly taken out of context, but the point to note is that the Prophet Muhammad (saws) clarified that the one to be punished was the one who rebelled against the community. This is quite similar to state laws on treason. A state is justified in taking action against those who pose a significant threat. But the idea of setting up an inquisition to examine the beliefs of the people is against Islamic teachings, so someone who personally changes their religious convictions will be insignificant in the eyes of the state. It is the one who publically announces his rebellion, stirring civil unrest, who must be opposed. While the Christian inquisitions were bent on examining (through the use of torture) the beliefs of those Muslims and Jews who outwardly professed conversion to Christianity, in an Islamic state, someone who even outwardly professes acceptane of Islam is left alone because they cause no harm to society, and the Islamic state is only interested in the security of its society.

Regards
 
Thanks for your reply, but I must admit I'm still a bit confused.

Muslims build mosques and actively preach their religion and try to win converts in non-muslim lands. Would you understand if a modern (2006) country were to ban Islamic prosyletizing (sp?) with the idea of maintaining order in the non-islamic society. Including execution of vocal Islamic converts? Would that be considered an internal matter not worth much outside attention?

Basically what I'm getting at is this; I get the impression that Muslims often demand things from non-muslims that they are unwilling to give to non-muslims. This is not meant as an insult. It's an impression not a statement of fact.
 
Ansar Al-'Adl said:
Hi blunderbus,
You raise a good question.

As a side note, this has already happened, examples include the spanish inquisition. But on to your question...

First of all, the law on apostasy has been explained here and here. It is commonly taken out of context, but the point to note is that the Prophet Muhammad (saws) clarified that the one to be punished was the one who rebelled against the community. This is quite similar to state laws on treason. A state is justified in taking action against those who pose a significant threat. But the idea of setting up an inquisition to examine the beliefs of the people is against Islamic teachings, so someone who personally changes their religious convictions will be insignificant in the eyes of the state. It is the one who publically announces his rebellion, stirring civil unrest, who must be opposed. While the Christian inquisitions were bent on examining (through the use of torture) the beliefs of those Muslims and Jews who outwardly professed conversion to Christianity, in an Islamic state, someone who even outwardly professes acceptane of Islam is left alone because they cause no harm to society, and the Islamic state is only interested in the security of its society.

Regards
Click to expand...


Ansar, what you say here is simply rediculous. You can't compare the inquisition 500 years ago to what is happening today in modern Islam. Please... If you wanna compare the death sentence of this afghan convertitt to anything, it must be to a death sentence made by a christian society today against a muslim convert. And you can't, because it doesn't happen anymore. I am really tired of muslims defending modern islamic crime by stating that "christians did the same thing"... Only it happened long before any of us existed...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/26/afghan.convert/index.html
 
Christian_dove, is there any christian state in world that u are talking about execution of a muslim convert from christianity? but remember Allah swt says that provoking is worse than killing,and that is what is done to us (muslims) right now in world !!!.
 
Hello blunderbus,
blunderbus said:
Muslims build mosques and actively preach their religion and try to win converts in non-muslim lands. Would you understand if a modern (2006) country were to ban Islamic prosyletizing (sp?) with the idea of maintaining order in the non-islamic society.
Click to expand...
It seems we are not talking about execution of converts anymore? Let's finish one question before moving on to another, please.
Including execution of vocal Islamic converts? Would that be considered an internal matter not worth much outside attention?
Click to expand...
If someone poses a threat to a state's security, then they are justified in taking action against them. But if someone changes their personal religious views, then it is quite extreme for the state to attempt to pry into the hearts of its citizens to determine their faith and punish them.

Christian Dove,
Ansar, what you say here is simply rediculous. You can't compare the inquisition 500 years ago to what is happening today in modern Islam.
Click to expand...
Well you'll notice that I did not justify the apostasy law based on what was done in the inquisition. I mentioned the inquisition as an aside.
Please... If you wanna compare the death sentence of this afghan convertitt to anything, it must be to a death sentence made by a christian society today against a muslim convert.
Click to expand...
Well the problem is, after the seperation of Church and state, there is no Christian society. If there was, we would find plenty of examples.

Regards
 
Ansar Al-'Adl said:
Christian Dove,

Well you'll notice that I did not justify the apostasy law based on what was done in the inquisition. I mentioned the inquisition as an aside.

Well the problem is, after the seperation of Church and state, there is no Christian society. If there was, we would find plenty of examples.

Regards
Click to expand...


In Norway, we haven't separated the church and the state.... There is an ongoing discussion if we should do so, but it hasn't happened yet.
 
vpb said:
Christian_dove, is there any christian state in world that u are talking about execution of a muslim convert from christianity? but remember Allah swt says that provoking is worse than killing,and that is what is done to us (muslims) right now in world !!!.
Click to expand...

Yes, but in this case, which we are discussing now, a muslim became a christian and is sentenced to death for it. He didn't provoke anyone, but the problem is, some fanatic muslims are provoked by anything just as long as they think is not from the book... Here we have exaples of muslim leaders incuridging their followers to kill this man. Tear him into little pieces, as they say... For me as a christian ,THAT is provoking...
 
Assalamu alaikum

Live and let live; judgement should remain solely with God. La ikrana fee deen. Period.

The guy is free now.

Ma'assalama
 
strider said:
Assalamu alaikum

Live and let live; judgement should remain solely with God. La ikrana fee deen. Period.

The guy is free now.

Ma'assalama
Click to expand...

Well, he was freed from the authorities (because of political pressure from the west...), but that doesn't help much as he is allready condamned to death by the religious leaders in Afghanistan... His only chance of survival is to apply for asylum in Europe or the US. Sad, but thats how it is.
 
when I was talking about provoking, I meant, that people used to kill before, but now they have changed their'way to 'Provoking' which is worse than killing. and myself I don't agree killing a person just because he changed his religion to other than Islam, and Allah swt will judge him ! We have to be patient :) His change would not cause doubts to a true Muslims believer :)
 
vpb said:
when I was talking about provoking, I meant, that people used to kill before, but now they have changed their'way to 'Provoking' which is worse than killing. and myself I don't agree killing a person just because he changed his religion to other than Islam, and Allah swt will judge him ! We have to be patient :) His change would not cause doubts to a true Muslims believer :)
Click to expand...

You mean that provoking is worse than killing? How?
 
because provoking pushes and pushes you to something that you don't like to do, and actually it is a mental pressure where you come to a point that you can't hold it anymore,and when you do it, it makes you look bad so they can have arguments that you are a bad person, and nobody knows that you suffered from those things, and everybody think that the provoker is the good man.
 
it actually makes you kill yourself with your own hands
 
vpb said:
because provoking pushes and pushes you to something that you don't like to do, and actually it is a mental pressure where you come to a point that you can't hold it anymore,and when you do it, it makes you look bad so they can have arguments that you are a bad person, and nobody knows that you suffered from those things, and everybody think that the provoker is the good man.
Click to expand...

Provoking is not the same as killing someone. If you do bad things (even when provoked) you are a bad person. Period.
 
Well i know 100 percent That he is not going to stay in Afghanistan because he knows what will happen to him.
 
we are not talking here about provoking from parents "hey son, I heard you have a C grade on math" when they have not even seen the grades, we are talking here about provoking nations that is causing death to many people. And I dont like the provoked people either who fall on the plot, bc we know we have to be patient, and act with calmness like the prophet Mohammed a.s did, and analyze the situtation and try to solve it throught peaceful meaning, and that is why I am saying that many muslims are falling on a plot like the gu y in the last thread that made a kamikaze, bc we have to act smarter like the one who provoke us, cuz we're the one that we have the true knowledge(the truth).
 

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