...very confused! Salafi's and Hadeeths!

format_quote Originally Posted by Khaldun

No true salafi will ever tell you not to follow a math-hab, since all the four imaams are themselves from the salaf and we are obliged to follow them. Rather what almost all salafis call to is that people should not blindly follow any scholar. If Imaam Shaafi'ee, however great scholar he might be, made a ruling and made a mistake [since he only is a human after all] and lets say Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal his student corrects this mistake, should we say no but Imaam Shaafi'ee said! Do you think you have more knowledge then Imaam Shaafi'ee brother!? But in truth that is not the issue.

Secondly, as has been mentioned salafiyyah should not be place alongside terms like hanbali or hanafi since this is a clear confusion. Imaam Aboo Haneefah aswell as the other Imaams where all from the salaf themselves, you cant get more salafi then that.

Lastly, if one studies the history of Islaam one will realise how bad the people misunderstood the math-habs and why they were established in the first place. People said a hanafi woman cannot marry a shaafi'ee man and vice versa, but some of these scholars gave fatwa saying it is indeed allowed for a man to marry such a woman since muslim men are allowed to marry christians and jews. Yaa SubhanAllah! They took their own brethren outside of Islaam. This even reached such levels that the holiest of masjids in Makkah had four mihraabs and each group would pray their salah individually.

This is how people misunderstood math-haabs throughout time.

SubhanAllah. A lovely reply

jazakAllah kheir

please flee from these wanabee salafis. subhaanAllah, because of these jahil laypeople, who copy paste on forums and claim to be salafi, confusions of these sorts are created in our time. akhee Khaldun put it very nicely! It is a big error to differentiate between salafiyyah and following a mathhab. Following a mathhab have to do with fiqh whereas salafiyyah, following the way of the Salaf, covers everything (aqeedah, fiqh, zuhad etc.). How can one claim to be salafi yet against following scholars or a mathhab of the Imams from the Salaf?

If you hear people saying "we should follow the Qur'an and sunnah and not the scholars" just flee from them and pay no heed to what they say. More than 90% of times, they do not even know what they are talking about and implication of their statement and 100% of the times they are themselves following some scholars; however, they just love to utter whatever they hear.

and Allah knows best

Taqlid refers to the practice of an unqualified, lay person (in a specific field of specialization) submitting to and accepting the authority of an expert in that field, without demanding proof and justification for every view, opinion or verdict expressed by such an expert authority.

Imitation is a natural tendency of human existence, practiced by millions of people worldwide in every facet of life. The simplest and most tangible example of Taqlid is that of a child learning his basic alphabets at school.

Every child learning his alphabets is unconsciously practicing Taqlid. A learner driver taking instructions from a driving instructor is practicing Taqlid. People going to a specialist doctor for medical treatment and following his instructions is another example of Taqlid.

A lay person soliciting a legal opinion from an advocate or following the advice of a tax consultant is another common case of Taqlid. A client at an engineering firm, asking for the engineer's advice on complex engineering calculations is yet another instance of Taqlid in action.

The millions of 'facts' in the myriad of sciences such as astronomy, archaeology, etc. are all distinct examples of Taqlid.

Who ever questions the 'fact' that the sun is really 93million miles away from the earth! It is taken for granted that this is the findings of the 'experts' in these fields and everyone simply accepts it as such. School teachers teach these to their pupils as 'gospel truth' and children learn and memorize these 'facts' with the hope of succeeding in their exams. There are countless such examples of Taqlid in everyday existence.

By way of extension, Taqlid is the easy option for ordinary people In the context of Islamic Fiqh or Law too.

Taqlid in Islam simply refers to accepting and following the verdicts of expert scholars of Islamic Fiqh in their exposition and interpretation of Islamic Law, without demanding from them an in-depth explanation of the intricate processes (Ijtihad) required in arriving at such a verdict.

It simply means that ordinary folk do not have to do Ijtihad. The duty of ordinary people is to trustingly accept the authority of the learned scholars in this matter and act upon their verdicts.

In this sense, Taqlid is a great blessing for common people, for it is beyond the capacity of everyone to understand the extremely complex and complicated mechanics of Ijtihad.

The ability to do Ijtihad requires many long years of study and erudition and a great deal of exertion in acquiring a mastery of various Islamic sciences.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir

the salafi's follow the path which the 4 great madhabs followed...the people who are following shafee, hanafi, hambali are not...

akhee al-kareem, how did you reach that conlucsion, please enlighhten me? Were the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) not among the Salaf? If Salafiyyah is to follow the path which the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) followed, then how can following one the math-hab (understanding of one of the 4 Imams) be considered as not following the path of the Salaf.

Lastly, let me ask you, do you even know what is Salfiyyah? Because I know from my experience that many times people hear things from these wannabee salafis, who have created their own hizbiyyah and sect, and go around spreading it while they do not anything about true meaning of salafiyyah and what the salafi scholars have said.

akhee al-kareem, you need to spend more time with brothers who actually hold onto the way of the Salaf than those who are self proclaimed salafis and like to use this label.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife

akhee al-kareem, how did you reach that conlucsion, please enlighhten me? Were the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) not among the Salaf? If Salafiyyah is to follow the path which the 4 Imams (rahimahumllah) followed, then how can following one the math-hab (understanding of one of the 4 Imams) be considered as not following the path of the Salaf.

Lastly, let me ask you, do you even know what is Salfiyyah? Because I know from my experience that many times people hear things from these wannabee salafis, who have created their own hizbiyyah and sect, and go around spreading it while they do not anything about true meaning of salafiyyah and what the salafi scholars have said.

akhee al-kareem, you need to spend more time with brothers who actually hold onto the way of the Salaf than those who are self proclaimed salafis and like to use this label.

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, very well said my brother. It is clearly a lack of knowledge and ignorance that lead people to this type of thinking.

A madhhab represents the entire school of thought of a particular mujtahid Imam, such as Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi'i, or Ahmad--together with many first-rank scholars that came after each of these in their respective schools, who checked their evidences and refined and upgraded their work.

The mujtahid Imams were thus explainers, who operationalized the Qur'an and sunna in the specific shari'a rulings in our lives that are collectively known as fiqh or "jurisprudence". In relation to our din or "religion", this fiqh is only part of it, for the religious knowledge each of us possesses is of three types.

The first type is the general knowledge of tenets of Islamic belief in the oneness of Allah, in His angels, Books, messengers, the prophethood of Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace), and so on.

All of us may derive this knowledge directly from the Qur'an and hadith, as is also the case with a second type of knowledge, that of general Islamic ethical principles to do good, avoid evil, cooperate with others in good works, and so forth.

Every Muslim can take these general principles, which form the largest and most important part of his religion, from the Qur'an and hadith. The third type of knowledge is that of the specific understanding of particular divine commands and prohibitions that make up the shari'a.

Here, because of both the nature and the sheer number of the Qur'an and hadith texts involved, people differ in the scholarly capacity to understand and deduce rulings from them. But all of us have been commanded to live them in our lives, in obedience to Allah, and so Muslims are of two types, those who can do this by themselves, and they are the mujtahid Imams; and those who must do so by means of another, that is, by following a mujtahid Imam, in accordance with Allah's word in Surat al-Nahl,

" Ask those who recall, if you know not " (Qur'an 16:43), and in Surat al-Nisa, " If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter " (Qur'an 4:83), in which the phrase those of them whose task it is to find it out, expresses the words "alladhina yastanbitunahu minhum", referring to those possessing the capacity to draw inferences directly from the evidence, which is called in Arabic istinbat.

These and other verses and hadiths oblige the believer who is not at the level of istinbat or directly deriving rulings from the Qur'an and hadith to ask and follow someone in such rulings who is at this level. It is not difficult to see why Allah has obliged us to ask experts, for if each of us were personally responsible for evaluating all the primary texts relating to each question, a lifetime of study would hardly be enough for it, and one would either have to give up earning a living or give up ones din.

It is not a question of whether or not to take our din from scholars, but rather, from which scholars. And this is the reason we have madhhabs in Islam: because the excellence and superiority of the scholarship of the mujtahid Imams--together with the traditional scholars who followed in each of their schools and evaluated and upgraded their work after them--have met the test of scholarly investigation and won the confidence of thinking and practicing Muslims for all the centuries of Islamic greatness.

The reason why madhhabs exist, the benefit of them, past, present, and future, is that they furnish thousands of sound, knowledge-based answers to Muslims questions on how to obey Allah. Muslims have realized that to follow a madhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a comprehensive knowledge of the Qur'an and hadith texts relating to each issue he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions, when taqwa or "godfearingness" was the norm--both of which conditions are in striking contrast to the scholarship available today.

format_quote Originally Posted by An-Nughair

Following a Madhab is in essence following the Qur'an and the Sunnah, no one will say that the 4 Imams didn't follow Qur'an and Sunnah. They knew Qur'an and Sunnah better than anyone living in this day and age, simply because they were in the "Golden Age" or as we call the Salaf as Saliheen.

The 4 Imams followed the way of the Sahaba before them, and we all know that the Sahaba are the shining stars, if we follow them, we will be guided.

Differences of opinion is a Rahma in this Ummah. The Sahaba had differences and so did their followers after them. It just gets to show the beauty of our deen.

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, Subhanallah beautifully put. May Allah lead us all in the right direction. Ameen

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir

Its not considered following the path of the Salaf because all the 4 great imams were following the Sunnah of Muhammad..they differed only in terms of Fiqh..so all of them were following the path of Muhammad SAW...and theres only one way..the Muhammad way..and thats the way of the Imam Shafee, Ahmed ibnu Hambal, Imam Malik etc etc...

my brother, you are displaying lack of knowledge and contradicting yourself in the very sentence.

If the Imams followed the path of the Salaf and they were following the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam), then how can you claim that one following the 4 Imams is not following the Sunnah or way of the Salaf? Please explain me the difference here

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir

If what ur saying is true, y did Muhammad SAW predicted a the coming of Dajjal for 40 days on the earth but did not say anything about the 4 madhabs and y should ppl follow them?

one way you are saying the the 4 Imams followed the Sunnah, which is the only way, and then you are implying that following them is somehow wrong. No one claims that we are following the Imams, they did not bring new Shari'ah. Those who associate themselves to math-hab are following these Imam's understanding of the Shari'ah. The people who do not have knowledge are obliged to ask those who have knowledge - this is command in the Qur'an; hence, following the understanding of the scholars. Are you now going to say that following the command of Allah is wrong?

What did the Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) say? He said follow me and my companions? Was he saying that his companions will bring a new shari'ah or way other than his Sunnah. No, he (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam) meant that follow the understanding of the Shari'ah of his companions. So now if someone follows the understanding of the companions, will you say that he is wrong? Keep in mind that sahabas differed over fiqhi issues and this is one of the reasons why the latter Imams differed among themselves on fiqhi issues.

Tell me ya akhee al-kareem, do you not take fatawa from a scholar? What do you call it? Since you claim yourself to be a salafi, did you know that most of saudi scholars are hanbalis. 95% of salafis like you take fatawas from saudi scholars, which means most of your fiqh is based upon hanabli math-hab.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir

because there's only one way to islam...we can see right..even in mecca/medina..there are special places for the hanafees and shafees....so that they can do their worship in accordance to the madhab of their choice..do u think Imam Shafee or Imam Ahmed ibnu Hambal will be proud of this? coz this is certainly not their way...

and where did you get this from?

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir

All the 4 great madhabs say dun follow them , but follow the Quran & hadith as they themselves were the follower of Quran and Hadith

First, this statement is contradictory. How could they have gone against the command of Allah and tell a jahil ami to directly look into the Qur'an and Sunnah? This is a grave mistake being indirectly attributed to the Imams (rahimahumullah). When it is clear that they were following the Qur'an and Sunnah then how is following them is wrong because we will simply be following what they followed? The awam is obliged to follow the understanding of the scholars as explained above. We are not suppose to follow the errors and mistakes of the scholars and that is something we can learn only via other scholars and not by ourselves because we do not have the tools to do this.

The statements of the Imams that do not follow our fatawas when they contradict the Qur'an were directed toward their students, those who are capable of looking into the text and weigh stronger versus weak, and not awam.

Please my dear brother, have a look at All about following a Madhab and taqleed

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir

....but from what we see, the shafees have a different way of praying, the hanafees have a different way of praying...but according to the sunnah of Muhammad SAW, there's only one way of praying...

akhee al-kareem, do you know the difference between wajib arkan of the salah and sunnah arkan of the salah? The only major problem with difference is in regard to maliki opinion of not folding hands. Rest of their differences are over sunnah arkan for which you are not sinning if you leave neither your salah is invalid.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir

but its sad to see ppl have created sects amongst themselves based on these 4 great scholars...

read my reply in following thread: Zakir Naik - sects in Islam

and Allah knows best