I've had a marriage proposal through by a pious brother who has good knowledge and prays namaaz!
Only problem is after much debate he's willing to provide own housing, however after marriage I'll be working but I'll be supported by him also! But he wants me to go round to his mums everyday after work and help his m cook and clean! I've told him its not my duty, but I will help her when I go round but not daily as with work and my own house duties it's just too much! I want to relax also and spend time alone with hubby! He then gets angry saying I'm not worried about reward and pious women would stay day and night cooking and cleaning for inlaws and pleasing their husbands!
The choice of working is my own, as I want to buy a house out front without interest and want to also earn my own money
Is there anyway I can argue my point about serving jnlaws?
IB Forum Anonymous Account.
Available to those who wish to be anonymous in the Advice & Support section.
Abuse of the Anonymous System will NOT be tolerated!
He then gets angry saying I'm not worried about reward and pious women would stay day and night cooking and cleaning for inlaws and pleasing their husbands!
The situation with regards to women serving their husbands is this:
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
This is a matter on which there is a difference of opinion amongst the scholars.
In Hanafi fiqh, the husband is not only responsible for the maintenance of his wife, but also for the cooking, cleaning, and general maintenance of the house, either by hiring a servant, doing the work himself, or by being lucky enough to have a wife who is willing to do it out of her own free will. If the wife refuses to help out in these areas, she is not to be held responsible and cannot be reprimanded.
This was also the opinion of Imam an-Nawawi, who was a Shafi3i. He said that all the house work that a woman does, is all voluntary on the part of the wife, and if she refused to do any of it, she would not be sinful. What women do is a beautiful voluntary custom that women have been following from the first generations until now.
The opinion of Imams Malik, al-Shafi3i, and Abu Hanifa, and one statement from Imam Ahmad, is that such service is only preferred (mustahabb) but not obligatory.
Abu Thaur, ibn Taymiyya and his student ibn al-Qayyim al-Jauziyyah, and Nasiruddin al Albani are of the opinion that it is obligatory on the wife to serve her husband, within the bounds of what is reasonable and as other women who are like her serve husbands who are like him. She also has to take care of the house, doing things like cooking and so on, in accordance with what is customary among people like her and her husband.
Both sides use various ahadeeth as evidence for their position.
After discussing all of the proofs and evidence, al-Adawi came to the conclusion that it is recommended, but not obligatory, for a wife to serve her husband.
It is recommended, as otherwise too much burden would be placed upon the husband, especially in societies like those of the West where it would be difficult upon the husband to support both the family and take care of all aspects within the house. Neither of them should be put into hardship because of the marriage. The husband should not demand that the wife is superwoman, working outside and then also doing all the household work by herself as well. Both spouses should take into consideration the needs and abilities of the other, and try their best to help, support and please one another.
Jamal Zarabozo feels that there is no strong evidence to support either side for obligation or non-obligation. Both sides should take into consideration the physical capabilities and needs of each other, be understanding to each other, and try their best to please each other.
Source: The Fiqh of Family, Marriage and Divorce, by Jamal Zarabozo, American Open University 1997
Islamqa are of the latter opinion (that it is obligatory) but have this concluding paragraph:
What happens nowadays is that the wife – usually – serves her husband and takes care of different matters within the home. There may be a servant to help her with that if her husband can afford it. If the husband knows that the majority of scholars say that it is not obligatory for the wife to serve her husband and take care of the house, I say that one of the benefits of this may be that he will not go to extremes and demand too much of his wife in this regard, and that he will not give her a hard time if she falls short, because what she is doing is not a duty according to the majority of fuqaha’. However, even it is a duty according to some of them – and this is what we think is more correct – the fact that there is such a difference of opinion means that the husband has to look at what she is doing as something voluntary rather than obligatory, or something in which the scholars differ as to whether it is obligatory, so he should be gentle with her if he sees that she is falling short in this regard, and he should encourage her and help her to do it.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
It sounds cultural rather than Islamic. The problem is, how interwined is your potential spouse with his culture. I think, it's nice of you to still be willing to go around every now and then and help the inlaws out, you definitly do get reward for this. But, it being obligatory isn't really something a Muslimah should ever have to go through if she doesn't want to.
Maybe you could try explaining that people need their own personal space every so often, and going every day is excessive for you, and you will feel suffocated and over worked having spent the day at work, like you're not superwomen that you can wake up early in the morning, spend a long hard day at work, then go to your in laws and start cooking, there's only so much people can handle in one day before they start getting depressed. If he's unable to comprehend/understand this, then you have to ask yourself if he's what you want in a man.
Relationship between husband and wife in marriage is different than relationship between employer and employee, or between master and servant. A man marry a woman not to get a servant, although serve the husband is the wife's duty. A woman marry a man not for wealth, although fulfill the wife needs is the husband's duty.
Husband and wife have their own duties and responsibilities as a couple of partner in build a family that sakinah, mawadah, wa rahmah.
Actually, if a man marry a woman, it's means he marry this woman family. And if a woman marry a man, it's means she marry this man family. The husband should treat the wife parents like he treat his parents. The wife should treat the husband parents like she treat her parents.
When my mother was alive, whenever she need help from my wife I always asked my wife to help her. When my parents in-law were alive, whenever they need my help, my wife always asked me to help them.
But, I never ordered my wife to serve my mother while I didn't do anything. I am my mother's son. I had duties and responsibilities to serve my mother bigger than my wife duties and responsibilities to serve my mother. And my wife never asked me to serve her parents while she didn't do anything. She had duties and responsibilities to serve her parents bigger than mine.
Back to your case. There are two options of solution.
First, hire a maid to serve his mother everyday. He should pay that maid because this is his responsibility. But after you married him you should participate in paying that maid. Maybe you pay 20% or 50%, depend on you and your husband agreement.
Second, after you married him, you and your husband come to his mother and serve her together. Share the duty, you cook and your husband clean up the house.
These are two options you can offer to him. Discuss with him to make decision which one the best between these two options.
However, if he prefer to take the third option, you serve his mother while he doesn't do anything, you should remind him about his duties and responsibilities as the son of his mother.
Brother Ardianto really gave the best solution, so far you are my favorite real life advisor Brother. May Allah reward you and give you more strength and knowledge to help people in need.
I got married too and really bad in household chores. really bad and though I am not doing anything at home really, my husband never upset me and he never force me to do or give anything to the no. 1 woman in his life (his mom), he said its his duty so & so
Now Sister, I hope you will be stronger enough to try his suggestions. May Allah bless your marriage and may you meet your dreams inshallah.
Last edited by Riana17; 11-23-2011 at 10:36 AM.
The HIGHEST accomplishment I can achieve in this worldly life is to be a TRUE MUSLIM. (me)
Why would I pay some money towards a maid to help his mum out? I rather give money to my parents who are renting a property! I'm not asking him to serve my parents as that's my duty as why is he?
I'll make the situation more clear! This man has a sister where her inland hate her so she doesn't even go to see them and goes to see her mum everyday an spends more time there than her own house! His mother has more than enough help around the house and also his brother who has a wife lives with the mother who helps out so there isn't a need for me to go round daily! I said I'll go Roy's when I can and help out but I wanna be stress free and not be tired and always wanna c my parents every two weeks and they live 200 miles away so I cannot be exhausted to see them!!!
Finally he said he will help around our own house he will do the ironing and Hoover but at his ms he won't lift a finger!!! I have specifically said to him I will work and save all the money and buy a house one day upfront with no interest yet that's not good enough! I don't feel it's 50:50
Also his sister interferes a lot and told us don't live too far etc h need to look after mum etc etc
IB Forum Anonymous Account.
Available to those who wish to be anonymous in the Advice & Support section.
Abuse of the Anonymous System will NOT be tolerated!
I live in a Muslim majority country and it's very much expected here for son to take care of parents . It's said that sons are like the sticks of parents i.e as old people depends on stick , parents depends on sons . Daughters are not responsible to take care of parents or spend for them .
If daughter in law does not support hubby , then it becomes very hard for a son to spend for parent and look after them .
But it's not a must for a woman to cook for in laws , specially if her husband can spend money on maids.
Sis , remember , Anything good u do for the sake of Allah , u will be rewarded . So , if ur marriage proposal comes from a pious person , offer Istekhara salat . If ur mind goes with this proposal , then try to find a solution . Try to hire a maid and ur husband must pay for it .
may Allah grants what is best for u.
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 11-22-2011 at 04:41 PM.
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
It's a child's duty to look after parents, it cannot e said it is just the sons as some people don't have sons and only daughters. Like I Said before his mum is healthy and his sister helps out as she practically lives there, so y the need for me to go round daily is really confusing. I just don't want to go round daily I want my own space and privacy, which doesn't mean I'll stop my husband to go I've even said u can go daily but as long as u make time for me also and not to neglect me. I said I will go round but my daily and when I do I'll help out.
So what am I saying which is unfair?
I have also done istikhara and general dua and thwart seem positive towards this brother however if we sisagree on matters like this how will it work?
IB Forum Anonymous Account.
Available to those who wish to be anonymous in the Advice & Support section.
Abuse of the Anonymous System will NOT be tolerated!
You are not saying anything at all unreasonable, and you've shown that you're willing to make a compromise by going round every so often and helping out, even though it's not an obligation for you, and even though serving his parents is his duty, not yours. And a large part of marriage is compromise, which you're already showing. Just make sure that you're not doing all the compromising and that there is some coming from the other side.
Even though you may be generally feeling good about him as a potential husband, even things like this have the potential to make your married life a complete misery. Don't understimate getting the practicalities of daily life sorted. And you are indeed right, how will it work if there is no agreement? What does your wali say? Think carefully, try for an agreement, but if there isn't one, that could be a sign that he's not right for you. If he can't compromise on matters before marriage, what about afterwards?
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
Because I said I want my own space, he feels he is doing the most biggest thing in life leaving his mother, but let me add his brother and wife are now living there, and his sister goes round daily and so will u future husband. Secondly she looks after her daughters children while she works so she's never alone and she has a husband!!
This brother just says I should listen to a husband as my duty is to please him and I should be doing things for reward!!! What part of I will go round but not daily isn't he understanding?
My mother tells me I should go round daily and help cooks nd clean because my mother served her inland and so should I! Arghhhhhhhggg
IB Forum Anonymous Account.
Available to those who wish to be anonymous in the Advice & Support section.
Abuse of the Anonymous System will NOT be tolerated!
This brother just says I should listen to a husband as my duty is to please him and I should be doing things for reward!!!
This is ringing alarm bells sister. Either he truly lacks knowledge on the roles and responsibilities of husband and wife in Islam, and which case he should be willing to learn, or he just wants you to do whatever he says. You are under no obligation to be doing things for reward, no one can force you to do anything for reward, that is between you and Allah, and not your husband or anyone else. Also, how he is saying you should just listen to what he is saying, again marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not a dictatorship.
I know you're thinking he's pious, he prays etc, but unfortunately there can be, and are, some "pious" people out there who know all aspects of piousness apart from that towards their family.
See how things go, and how you feel, otherwise if he's not right for you, and Allah sent him your way, then He can also send you someone better.
Your mother may have served her in laws, but that doesn't mean that you have to, because Islamically you are not obliged at all to serve your in laws. I wonder if she spent a long day out at work earning for the house, to then go to her in laws to do their housework, and then go to her own house to do her own housework, every day. You are not hoping to be a slave sister, but hoping to be a wife, who cooperates within reasonable bounds for the happiness and well-being of the house. But what you're being told is not reasonable, nor expected of a wife in Islam. Just don't let yourself be pressurised into accepting this if you're in any way unhappy about it, and make du3a that Allah makes things clear for you and guides you to the best outcome.
And Allah knows best in all matters.
Last edited by Insaanah; 11-22-2011 at 07:19 PM.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
Insanaah I thank u so much for your understanding in this matter.
He says Islam is about pleasing a husband and that will please him me helping his mother!
Secondly no my mother did work and look after us and help cook and clean for her in laws, not just the mother an father but also my uncles. However my mother has ha a bad marriage, but she's had a lot of patience to tolerate a lot of crap and yet still serve her inlaws
IB Forum Anonymous Account.
Available to those who wish to be anonymous in the Advice & Support section.
Abuse of the Anonymous System will NOT be tolerated!
He says Islam is about pleasing a husband and that will please him me helping his mother!
That doesn't wash sis, that's trying to force you, and trying to make you feel guilty, and as though you're doing something wrong by saying that you won't be able to do it as often as he wants you to. Islam is not about being taken for a ride. In fact the fiqh book I referred to in the first post, mentions specifically the types of men who insist that the wife must obey their every command referring to excessive and beyond reasonable serving of him/his family "to please him". And then they say that this is Islam, and if you don't do what we say, you're in the wrong. This is so wrong sis. It is what they are doing that's not correct Islamically, not reasonable, not just, and not fair.
Last edited by Insaanah; 12-01-2011 at 03:31 PM.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
^ I don't think there are any. And I'm not suggesting that you don't obey your husband generally, just that you need to be aware of when things are going beyond what is reasonable, as you are getting glimpses now.
But, with regards to the situation you're in, this hadeeth might be relevant, even though at first glance, it may not seem to be:
Narrated Al-Ma'rur: The Messenger of Allah said: "...Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them." (Translation of part of a longer hadeeth in Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)
If an owner is not supposed to overburden a slave beyond what he/she can bear, and if the owner himself is supposed to join in the work and help the slave in fulfilling the work if he does order the slave to do more than the slave can reasonably do, then how much more so must this be true in the case of the wife?
How unjust would the slave owner be if he burdened his slave with more than he could cope with, and then when the slave says to him that he is not be able to do that much, he says, "Just do as I say, and please me."? This is in direct contravention of the above hadeeth of the Prophet , so how much more wrong is it in the case of the wife?
So it is not correct for him to order you to serve his mother, while not doing anything himself, on top of which you would have your own housework to do.
Also:
The Messenger of Allah said: "The best of you is the one who is best to his family (wife) and I am the best of you to my family." (at-Tirmidhi, Ibn Maajah)
Al- Aswad ibn Yazid said, "I asked Aisha what the Prophet used to do in his house. She answered, "He used to join in the housework. But when there came the time for prayer, he would go out to the prayer." (Sahih Bukhari)
It has also been reported that he would mend his own clothes and do other work around the house. (I don't have the references for these)
Try and see if you (your wali) can reach an agreement, and if you can, then alhamdulillah that's great. Just keep in mind the points that have been made, which are not to turn you against him, but to help you see the bigger picture, because when you're stuck in a situation, it's hard to look at it objectively from all facets from within.
May Allah help you and make it easy for you, ameen.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
This brother has previously been engaged to a girl, i have found out that she was seeing other guys when they wanted to get married. however, i also found out he was quite emotionally abusive towards her and would make horrible sexual comments towards her.
i wont comment as it is not correct in this forum.
They say that people that use this type of language are linked to people watching porn. my gut feeling says he watched porn, i dont know why but it does.
Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 11-28-2011 at 12:16 AM.
Reason: Please do not use such language in future
IB Forum Anonymous Account.
Available to those who wish to be anonymous in the Advice & Support section.
Abuse of the Anonymous System will NOT be tolerated!
We have decided not to go ahead with it. He wants someone to always be around his sister and his mother, and be helping his mum out without the bill **** excuses that I am tired lol!
IB Forum Anonymous Account.
Available to those who wish to be anonymous in the Advice & Support section.
Abuse of the Anonymous System will NOT be tolerated!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
sister
said: "...Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them." (Translation of part of a longer hadeeth in Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks