I want to believe but I just can't

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

In the Qur'an Allah says truth is clear from falsehood. This simple sentence is amazing. You know why? Because there is a lot of wisdom behind it.

To me it not only says that one should not look at "little details" but just look and you will see. Just like if you look and you see a tree you see a tree ..you do not have to look for details to see a tree. This also is sort of a confirmation that separates people who believe and people who who disbelieve. What I mean by this is in another part Allah says this is for people who reason. I mean sure you have read those ayaat also. What does "people who reason mean?"..atheist say it is just a mixed up something that in the end has became what it has became. However using your mind you say only the mentally ill people come to such a conclusion that it all has come from "chance". Well i should better say, their hearts are ill, as this is even confirmed in the Qur'an. The mind agrees that things cannot become like this by mere chance, the heart however doesn't need logic, rationality or reason. Just follow YOUR truth.

I have had a friend who was also agnostic you know what agnostic have in common with atheists?..not seeing the tree anymore but looking for details to WANT to see something else. You said earlier why believers always have to put a Creator in the equation..to see such balance in the universe to even atom level..how possible can this come out of chance besides SOMETHING having made all of this. Even looking for details for people who reason they can come to the same conclusions. Scientists are baffled by the behavior of cells.

So all I see atheists and agnostics look for THEIR truth not the truth of what reality gives them.

You sister with your mouth and thought says you have already thought about Islam to know and understand Islam. Sister these days we human beings have become retarded and I am NOT kidding you. I am going to be 31 years old soon. Since early 20's at work back then I did not want to mix with guys my age during break. I went and sat next to people who were twice my age. The people my age all what they were talking about was girls, football, money...but ESPECIALLY football. Nowadays people say this is "normal" behavior..no sister this is NOT normal behavior. Now at the age of 30..all people are busy with is work, family and what comes with it. Many people when they start a family become suddenly too serious but still very ignorant and shallow in their thoughts.

I do not feel special at all. I like certain things and others like other things. However people pondering happened in the past way more often than now. Why? Because people are TOO preoccupied by TV and listening to music. I dare you to stop watching TV and listening music for at least 6 months. Your WHOLE mentality will change. Close your Facebook and all those "social" media accounts or not visit them anymore. Like the body need healthy food, the mind also need healthy things to absorb. Will you able? Do not prove it to me that you are able but instead go and ponder about why I say these things.

BTW, I became a atheist because I never stood still with reality and search for Islamic knowledge. All I got was atheism propaganda and SUPER SUPER SHALLOW CULTURE Islam. I am seriously DISGUSTED when I think if culture Islam. Sadly I cannot put the exact emotions here about what I feel about culture Islam but they are NOT positieve even in the slightest sense. Nationalism being the cause of this culture Islam. But sheep Muslims being TOO PROUD to stop and ponder about this fact. But yet again sub'han'Allah being born a Muslim doesn't garuantee someone that he or she will also die as a Muslim. This age is a HUGE favor also from Allah that we have internet. Much knowledge I have gotten from the Internet.

Peace.

Oh brother....to be honest, Islam is not completely bad at all, there are a lot of wisdom in both the Quran and Hadeeth, back then I looked at them and I read them and I found absolutely EVERYTHING about Islam makes great sense with this world and my inner self (and some still is), I thought how could people not see this? I thought everything that is going on in this world aligns with the teachings of Islam, no way in hell there could be any mistake. But I realized I was only looking at one point of view, I thought that because I believed hard in Allah and was so afraid to cross the line, what about taking the neutral side?

How am I supposed to know and distinguish what Shaytaan wanted me to believe in, what myself wanted to believe in, what my family, community, government, kuffars, wanted me to believe in? So I just believe in myself. But when something goes wrong, they would say I have given myself to the devils. How am I supposed to buy that?

Why should we not look at little details? I look at the details because I want to know and understand every possible justifications/explanations that led people to believe why something is wrong or right, or why something is the way it is. I totally get that some people tend to always make effort to make sense of what they WANT to believe in by searching and looking at these little details. Though maybe because you currently believe in Allah who says these kind of people are the people who don't reason, is maybe the reason you are saying so. Aren't you a student before? I'm a science student, and if I say I only see a tree if I look at a tree, then I shouldn't be a science student anymore. A tree is NOT just a tree. If you look at it closely you'll see many combinations of living organisms to it such as fungi of various species and in fact some plants can't survive without them,and also particularly these microscopic eukaryotic and prokaryotic beings which holds the key to human survival. Also some plants if you look closely at them, they're actually animals. Do you really think that the world could have advanced to what it is today if people are only meant to see the 'tree'? Please enlighten me..Even Einstein wasn't religious. How am I supposed to buy that I'm among the people who 'don't reason' if all of my life I've been searching for reasons all over and I know I wasn't lying to myself?

Though I agree about that whole isolation part. In your mind, I'm just a little kid and you have most things figured out and I don't. Is that what you think? I've been a loner all of my life, I absolutely got that 'isolation' idea, and I think it's very important. I must stress that, even though I left Islam, not everything about Islam instantly became irrelevant to me. If I see the unbelievers insulting my muslim friends, I will still proudly defend them if I think my muslim friends are in the right. If that's what you got from atheism, I have nothing to say..

Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person

Sister, nobody being Muslim or non-Muslim even dying as Muslims are guaranteed paradise.

So your logical is kind of flawed to be honest.

Sorry but I never said anyone are guaranteed paradise. But according to Islam, being Muslims even though they go to hell because the sins outweighed the deeds, they'll eventually end up in heaven after the punishment has been done. Unlike the non-muslims, who will burn in hell forever.

format_quote Originally Posted by Kazu

Oh brother....to be honest, Islam is not completely bad at all, there are a lot of wisdom in both the Quran and Hadeeth, back then I looked at them and I read them and I found absolutely EVERYTHING about Islam makes great sense with this world and my inner self (and some still is), I thought how could people not see this? I thought everything that is going on in this world aligns with the teachings of Islam, no way in hell there could be any mistake. But I realized I was only looking at one point of view, I thought that because I believed hard in Allah and was so afraid to cross the line, what about taking the neutral side?

How am I supposed to know and distinguish what Shaytaan wanted me to believe in, what myself wanted to believe in, what my family, community, government, kuffars, wanted me to believe in? So I just believe in myself. But when something goes wrong, they would say I have given myself to the devils. How am I supposed to buy that?

Why should we not look at little details? I look at the details because I want to know and understand every possible justifications/explanations that led people to believe why something is wrong or right, or why something is the way it is. I totally get that some people tend to always make effort to make sense of what they WANT to believe in by searching and looking at these little details. Though maybe because you currently believe in Allah who says these kind of people are the people who don't reason, is maybe the reason you are saying so. Aren't you a student before? I'm a science student, and if I say I only see a tree if I look at a tree, then I shouldn't be a science student anymore. A tree is NOT just a tree. If you look at it closely you'll see many combinations of living organisms to it such as fungi of various species and in fact some plants can't survive without them,and also particularly these microscopic eukaryotic and prokaryotic beings which holds the key to human survival. Also some plants if you look closely at them, they're actually animals. Do you really think that the world could have advanced to what it is today if people are only meant to see the 'tree'? Please enlighten me..Even Einstein wasn't religious. How am I supposed to buy that I'm among the people who 'don't reason' if all of my life I've been searching for reasons all over and I know I wasn't lying to myself?

Though I agree about that whole isolation part. In your mind, I'm just a little kid and you have most things figured out and I don't. Is that what you think? I've been a loner all of my life, I absolutely got that 'isolation' idea, and I think it's very important. I must stress that, even though I left Islam, not everything about Islam instantly became irrelevant to me. If I see the unbelievers insulting my muslim friends, I will still proudly defend them if I think my muslim friends are in the right. If that's what you got from atheism, I have nothing to say..

Peace

Sister, my specialties are mostly philosophy and human psychology. I ask questions such as what came before the big bang sort of stuff. I do not except "maybe this or maybe that". I look at possibilities. I have pondered a lot about what came before the big bang and ONLY 1 philosophical answer stood firm. Something must have existed before which has NO beginning. This something must have caused the big bang. This answer Islam answers it perfectly.

You have atheists who say ..multi-verse, you have atheists who say i do not know..you have atheists who say repeated cycle of exploding, imploding..exploding etc. However yet again what came before? This philosophical question is like SUPER annoying fly that doesn't leave you alone. So again, the ONLY answer to this question was something MUST already exist to make sense. Although philosophical answer, somehow science even confirmed this to me. With time and space coming in to existence with the creation of the big bang. So whatever is outside this universe isn't going by the definition of how we see time and space. When this ESSENTIAL question has been answered, the rest of ALL the questions also found their answers. Being Islam.

From how we look at the world, how we look at ourselves, how we ourselves are and behave and why things are how they are. I do not go by "blind believe" you know. I want to know things and understand things, but i always start with a humble attitude. What is this attitude? To know that what i know isn't everything and there is much more knowledge that i do not know, but willing to learn. To understand what i do not yet understand as there is MORE that i do not understand than what i do understand, and also willing to understand and keep my mouth shut and my ears open and my mind open to process, digest, ingest, be skeptical, ask questions..but always for the sake of being a student. This very simply step i see many of us human beings Muslim, atheist, christian, jew, hindu etc. somehow miss or don't find important.

I have seen Muslims act all arrogant because they KNOW more then me and just because they know more than me i should keep my mouth shut and not be skeptical by asking questions. Yet they themselves fail to understand that UNDERSTANDING is something COMPLETELY different than having knowledge. There are converts that when they read the Qur'an, they instantly UNDERSTAND a TRANSLATED aya, yet many Muslims being hafiz of the Qur'an and speaking Arabic on high level not having the understanding of the same aya as the converts.

What sheytan wants you to believe and what you want to believe are rather easy at the end. Ponder about things. Turn off everything and just ponder. Why is this this and why is that that? How come i did this and what happened to me? In the past for example the days i missed fajr prayer, i analyzed those times. When did i wake up? What time did i go to sleep? Why did i went late to sleep? What time did the sun rise and how much time was between me waking up and sun rising? Often i woke up middle in the night without alarm clock..i could do whatever i wanted, but just about 2 hours before sunrise i got very sleepy. The times that i fell asleep i woke up maybe 5 minutes before sunrise or 10-15 minutes after sunrise. The more i kept track of those times i saw a trend. This same behavior happened in the summer as well as winter..so always just around sunrise ..in other words missing the prayer.

So you see a certain trend and looking at Islamic teaching and the way sheytan works you see it clearly. Or for example, surfing on the net..no feeling of going to the bathroom..but suddenly seeing ooh time is almost up for prayer..better go and pray..suddenly feeling that i need to go to the bathroom. I have even once just out of laziness went back on my laptop suddenly the feeling to go to the bathroom went away. But when i wanted to go to pray again..it again came back that i needed to go to the bathroom.

So these are very little details but you see something is going on. Or even having the desire to look at something haram, but the moment seeking refuge from sheytan..the desire going away. Some people might say well it is something psychological rather spiritual..

I OFTEN when want something or want to know something it is within certain time period exactly given to me. For example, just last week i had the intention to want to know Christian end of times prophecies, suddenly today a Jehova Witness came at my door and i had a very respectful talk with him and he giving me certain information where i could look it up those prophecies. Or knowing something today and suddenly the next week somebody asking me EXACTLY about that thing that i read last week. Once or twice is coincidence one could say, but sister i have had this continues for the last 4 years since i entered Islam. Again coincidence is one thing, but happening again and again and again..is kind of strange don't you think? 2 years ago a woman i talked to she left Islam and she was talking about being possessed once in her life. She said every time i heard the Qur'an being recited i ran out of the house screaming. After some time we just threw all the furniture out of the house and bought new furniture. She said maybe her mother in law had done sihr on her. Yet all these things she was saying and experiencing, she did not believe in the Qur'an or came back to Islam. I find these things remarkable.

I will not benefit if you come back to Islam or even stay away from Islam. All i know is death is a fact. When we end up in our grave, whatever the truth might be there is NO way to come back. Rather ponder a lot and be skeptical, but all with honesty. Allah often in the Qur'an says about the disease in their heart, why? How? Who is to be blamed? I have had talks with people even with the Christian brother today he said going to some people's houses to spread the message some people are so angry and hateful of God because of a loved one having cancer or some sort. I mean what has logical thinking to do with anger? Nothing..ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It much resides in the heart. The heart is filled with emotion especially with women as they are emotionally stronger than men. That is why you see MORE women converting to Islam than men.

So live your life, you will see that the words i am saying aren't lies or trying to brand you as something bad, but you will find nothing there that i can PROMISE YOU. As I can say.."BEEN THERE..DONE THAT..". I have tasted the life you think is the life, but it is all emptiness. When you look in the eyes of people..you see emptiness. Their smiles are empty. Their happiness is for a moment..their joy is for a moment..the amount of suicides has been rising continuously in the west. WHY?? People have everything they desire and wish to have, yet emptiness and sadness. People have zina EVERY DAY of the week one guy to another..one girl to another..yet they are sad from within. You see guys and girls surrounded with friends and family but they are empty and lonely and sad from within.

Sister i am not trying to make things "look" bad i swear, but i have lived that live and i have lived with such people. The STARE they have, I KNOW of that stare because i had the SAME EXACT stare as them. What am i doing? Why am i doing what i am doing? Is this it? I have what i wanted it..why am i not satisfied yet? You see people being all hyped up to go to the disco, the moment they are drunk you hear their sad stories and loneliness. At the gym people are so happy they can have a chat with you that before you know they are keeping you already for an hour from doing exercise because of loneliness and sadness..find meaning in their lives.

Do what you want to do as you have free will, but you will think about my words in'sha'Allah and in'sha'Allah better soon than late.

If you want to know or understand something, you are always welcome.

Peace.

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

I also ask myself, why do people who have had terrible things happen to them still believe in God and become much stronger in their faith? If you've lived as a Muslim, then you should know that this worldly life is ephemeral. Yes we do get tested, but it's not always with pain and it's not always with ourselves. All of us are tested in very different ways. It's through certain tests that we gain experiences and strength that we otherwise would not have had. But I understand what you mean, the fact of the matter is that our focus is the afterlife and our good deeds. So if someone dies or is in pain, be it a child or an adult, the purpose for it is individual and that knowledge is with Allah solely.



You're right, during that time things were different in regards to the mindset of the people. Does it mean that these days it is unacceptable islamically if the circumstances are very similar as you had pointed out?? No.

But if we are going to go by definition here, pedophilia is characterized by any 16 year old or older who is attracted to prepubescent kids. That means that if a 16 year old boy is attracted to a 13-year old girl, he is a pedophile. To be honest, this definition doesn't make sense because girls these days look much older than they really are and considering the age gap between them, it's only 3 years.

You could argue that you're talking about a 50 year old man wanting to marry a 9 year old girl, but it's not really that different because honestly guys are attracted to females point blank. If the girl is attractive, a guy will be attracted to her regardless of her age. There are 70 year olds who are married to 18 year olds, that's a 52 year difference. There are 13 year olds married to 14 year olds; both being "underage" and pubescent. If you want to follow a western ideology, then when it comes to marriage, age shouldn't matter, right??

Marriage should not be something that strips away from a person's life, it's something that is a blessing. Anything that makes it feel otherwise is poisonous. It's not something that should happen in secret or as a business transaction (like some cultures make it where they "sell off" their daughters). It's a celebration of two people who believe they are compatible for the rest of their lives, who will balance one another in faith, and who are following the laws ordained by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. That being said, the majority of scholars believe that is preferable for girls to marry once they reach the age of puberty (sexual maturity), and not before. But for the rare cases that it does happen, then it depends on the interests of the girl first and foremost. Girls these days are sexually curious and having intercourse at 9 years old. I personally think marriage is much more suitable and safer for them than in a culture that condemns "child marriages" but does very little in preventing a sexually geared atmosphere where they can easily be raped, molested, and pregnant. So there's really nothing that says that it's unsafe for girls to get married or be in a relationship at that age unless the marriage is unhealthy and destructive in nature which is unislamic. And when it comes to pregnancies, there are complications in every pregnancy whether the woman is an adult or a child. Some women die too..so really that's not a strong argument. The child marriages you imagine are the ones that come out of poverty, backward cultures, and ignorance. The pedophiles you think about are the ones where men can be attracted to boys just as well as girls, who are a danger to children, and who victimize them. None of this is allowed in Islam.

Now with your comment regarding why shouldn't all men emulate the prophet pbuh and marry children? Because the prophet did not marry for the sake of his desires and he married a range of different women and he treated them all very well and they loved him to death. Marriage in general is sunnah. It's not obligatory. Marrying children isn't obligatory either. It's just something that is allowed if something of that case happened where a man finds himself interested in a girl and she is of a certain age. In the US there are many states which have no age minimum for marriage. Isn't that crazy? But the difference with the westernized world and Islam is that Islam has universal rules. It's not based on the whims and desires of people where it changes ever so often. The connotation of pedophilia often comes with a lot of perversions that are not allowed in Islam, and there is no exception to it whether the man who wants to marry is 13 or 70.

What 9 year olds do you know are having sex in this day and age?????! I mean, I understand back then, it was not pedophilia as it was common at the time, but this line:


You could argue that you're talking about a 50 year old man wanting to marry a 9 year old girl, but it's not really that different because honestly guys are attracted to females point blank. If the girl is attractive, a guy will be attracted to her regardless of her age. There are 70 year olds who are married to 18 year olds, that's a 52 year difference. There are 13 year olds married to 14 year olds; both being "underage" and pubescent. If you want to follow a western ideology, then when it comes to marriage, age shouldn't matter, right?

There are so many things wrong with this line. First, an 18 and 70 year old is different because an 18 year old is soooooo much more mature than a 9 year old! A 9 year old is a child! You cannot compare the two. And second, I myself don't agree with 13 year and 14 year old dating or sex, but at least it's between two of them similar in age. And you're line about men being attracted to females regardless of age is absurd! I will never, ever, find myself attracted to a child who is 9 or 10! Men are not sex-crazed pigs who will sleep with any female. For a majority of men, they are not attracted to children.

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

I also ask myself, why do people who have had terrible things happen to them still believe in God and become much stronger in their faith? If you've lived as a Muslim, then you should know that this worldly life is ephemeral. Yes we do get tested, but it's not always with pain and it's not always with ourselves. All of us are tested in very different ways. It's through certain tests that we gain experiences and strength that we otherwise would not have had. But I understand what you mean, the fact of the matter is that our focus is the afterlife and our good deeds. So if someone dies or is in pain, be it a child or an adult, the purpose for it is individual and that knowledge is with Allah solely.



You're right, during that time things were different in regards to the mindset of the people. Does it mean that these days it is unacceptable islamically if the circumstances are very similar as you had pointed out?? No.

But if we are going to go by definition here, pedophilia is characterized by any 16 year old or older who is attracted to prepubescent kids. That means that if a 16 year old boy is attracted to a 13-year old girl, he is a pedophile. To be honest, this definition doesn't make sense because girls these days look much older than they really are and considering the age gap between them, it's only 3 years.

You could argue that you're talking about a 50 year old man wanting to marry a 9 year old girl, but it's not really that different because honestly guys are attracted to females point blank. If the girl is attractive, a guy will be attracted to her regardless of her age. There are 70 year olds who are married to 18 year olds, that's a 52 year difference. There are 13 year olds married to 14 year olds; both being "underage" and pubescent. If you want to follow a western ideology, then when it comes to marriage, age shouldn't matter, right??

Marriage should not be something that strips away from a person's life, it's something that is a blessing. Anything that makes it feel otherwise is poisonous. It's not something that should happen in secret or as a business transaction (like some cultures make it where they "sell off" their daughters). It's a celebration of two people who believe they are compatible for the rest of their lives, who will balance one another in faith, and who are following the laws ordained by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. That being said, the majority of scholars believe that is preferable for girls to marry once they reach the age of puberty (sexual maturity), and not before. But for the rare cases that it does happen, then it depends on the interests of the girl first and foremost. Girls these days are sexually curious and having intercourse at 9 years old. I personally think marriage is much more suitable and safer for them than in a culture that condemns "child marriages" but does very little in preventing a sexually geared atmosphere where they can easily be raped, molested, and pregnant. So there's really nothing that says that it's unsafe for girls to get married or be in a relationship at that age unless the marriage is unhealthy and destructive in nature which is unislamic. And when it comes to pregnancies, there are complications in every pregnancy whether the woman is an adult or a child. Some women die too..so really that's not a strong argument. The child marriages you imagine are the ones that come out of poverty, backward cultures, and ignorance. The pedophiles you think about are the ones where men can be attracted to boys just as well as girls, who are a danger to children, and who victimize them. None of this is allowed in Islam.

Now with your comment regarding why shouldn't all men emulate the prophet pbuh and marry children? Because the prophet did not marry for the sake of his desires and he married a range of different women and he treated them all very well and they loved him to death. Marriage in general is sunnah. It's not obligatory. Marrying children isn't obligatory either. It's just something that is allowed if something of that case happened where a man finds himself interested in a girl and she is of a certain age. In the US there are many states which have no age minimum for marriage. Isn't that crazy? But the difference with the westernized world and Islam is that Islam has universal rules. It's not based on the whims and desires of people where it changes ever so often. The connotation of pedophilia often comes with a lot of perversions that are not allowed in Islam, and there is no exception to it whether the man who wants to marry is 13 or 70.

Also, you're claim about complications in pregnancy is incorrect as well. It's more dangerous for a younger person to give birth as their bodies are not as developed as a grown woman!!!!!!, their bodies are at a higher risk. I;m sorry if I come across as harsh, but learn about biology and human anatomy before you say things. Again, I'm sorry for saying this, but this is the post is just one of the most ridiculous and absurd things I have read in a while.

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

13% of students reported ever having had sexual intercourse (10% of sixth graders, 13% of seventh graders, and 17% of eighth graders).
46% of sexually active students reported having had sexual intercourse with three or more partners (44% of sixth graders, 43% of seventh graders, and 46% of eighth graders).
62% of sexually active students reported using a condom at last sexual intercourse (61% of sixth graders, 58% of seventh graders, and 66% of eighth graders).
25% of sexually active students reported having had a sexually transmitted disease (33% of sixth graders, 23% of seventh graders, and 20% of eighth graders).
31% of sexually active students reported drinking alcohol or using drugs before last sexual intercourse (26% of sixth graders, 38% of seventh graders, and 28% of eighth graders).

Source

This concerns children between the ages of 11-13. If 13% are sexually active at 11 years old with 62% being with multiple partners, then there's no doubt that it began earlier than that age.

Besides that report, kids were promiscuous at my school growing up too and that was years ago. I don't even want to know what they are like now.



I have a pretty good science background considering I wanted to go to medical school, so I know a good amount of biology and human anatomy, so thanks.

But here's a biology lesson for you, a girl who has not hit puberty cannot get pregnant. If it happens, it's rare. Puberty is the marker that says a girl's body is ready to conceive. With that comes other body changes such as wider hips for giving birth and the formation of breasts for nursing. Every pregnancy can potentially have complications, it doesn't matter the age. Islam takes in the welfare of the girl before anything else. so if a girl has not yet hit puberty, she should not be touched or even married off which I've already mentioned. I'm unsure what you are arguing here.

1. These grades are not 9 years old as you claim, their ages range from 13-14, so your claim at 9 years old having sex is ridiculous as 9 year olds are usually 3rd-4th graders.

2.Ok even if they are having sex, looks, it's a very small minority and that doesn't make it ok. And even though I am strongly against people that age having sex, they are at least having it with each other rather than as you said, someone who is much older, like a man in his 50s.

3. Again, it doesn't back up your absurd claim that men are attracted to women regardless of their age. I'm sorry, that is not true at all. Most men are not attracted to 9 year olds today

4. Yes, I know, a girl who has not reached puberty cannot get pregnant. But as I was saying, pregnancy at an earlier age(13 for example) opposed to 30, is more risky as their bodies are still developing. Just because a girl can be having babies, doesn't mean she should.

5. Again, back then, I wold like say, I am not saying the prophet was not pedophilia as his other wives were much older and it was common back then.

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

Since when were 6th graders 13 years old?? Lack of evidence doesn't mean it's not happening, it means that ethically students are not questioned without the parent's permission, which I assume is the case. There are cases where 10 year olds are pregnant.



loool what's the difference??



Are you a girl? Do you have any idea how much girls get hit on and harassed by older men? Do you realize how big of a problem human trafficking of girls is?? Of course not, because you aren't one. So this claim is not absurd at all, especially when a young girl is developed.



I agree, but it happens whether we agree with it or not.

Every individual case is different. What the prophet pbuh allowed doesn't mean that it should be widespread as common practice especially with changing times. So I am not advocating for every little girl to get married off. However, if it happens to be that being married off to someone is better for her then I don't see any issue with it so as long as no law is broken and the girl is well taken care of. We do not know the circumstances today in which a family would get to the point where they feel that their daughter is better off married. Our opinions don't matter in the end, what is allowed is allowed as long as no oppression is present.

1. It said 6th, 7th and 8th graders, around ages of 12-14, my mistake. Also, just because it does happen does not mean it is ok. Also, with 10 year olds, those are rare case. Most children do not have sex. Again, it is a minority

2. Are you serious? You can't see the difference between two people who are similiar in age, maturity and physical development having sex between a grown man sleeping with someone much younger? The latter is more risky

3. Yes, there are pedophiles out there, but to say that men in general are attracted to women regardless of age is just absurd and completely ridiculous. Are you a man? do you know how we think? Also, how about the countless of men who speak up against this? As well, there are women sleeping with younger men as well...does that mean women are attracted to young men.

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

Actually 6th grade starts with 11 year olds. So lower it another year. And who said it was ok for kids to be sexually active?? Again I don't know what you are arguing??



Please enlighten me. What risks are you talking about here?



This isn't about pedophiles, these are normal men. Women are attracted to younger men if they are attractive, just as older men are attracted to younger women if they are attractive. What is so difficult to comprehend about that? If a girl looks older than she is (which isn't uncommon considering girls hit puberty at 8 and 9 years old!), guys will find them attractive.

1. It is more risky, considering the bodies of a 50 year old and 9 year old are developed greatly, it can hurt the girl. Also, the 50 year is more mature, 9 year old is far from it, can lead to emotional manipulation

2.No, normal men are not attracted to 9 year olds!