I want to believe but I just can't

**Kazu** · 03-04-2017

Greetings people, Muslims and nons, no offense to the Muslims. I want to get this off my chest for a long time. I'm a closet ex-muslim, 22. Since childhood I had so many doubts about Islam, particularly about the existence of God himself. How can God let really evil things happen? if everything evil meant to happen because God wants to test us and given that the tests given aren't supposed to exceed our limit as humans, why do God let terrible things happen to children? There are cases some children were kidnapped from their houses, was gang-raped, and burnt to death. How was that a test? I may just be really ignorant for not making sense of this, kindly, please enlighten me.

But then, after all of that, I would repent to Allah and became religious. I found myself always going back and forth. In the past, I used to cry in my sujood, I used to cry when reading the Koran, I used to be very careful with my thinking bcos I feared Allah so much. I loved Ramadhan very much, that's the only time I truly felt connected to Allah by doing extra prayers, learning stuff & taking care of my inner self. Normally people would usually dread bcos of the fasting, but really I loved Ramadhan, it truly made me a better person, but just like every other religion will make people become a better person. My family weren't very religious, so I searched God most by myself. But until I opened myself to the outer world, I started becoming friends with some non muslims, reading forums and articles etc. I changed my views on life, I became very liberal in my thinking, and this wasn't a good thing. I debated with my muslim friends and I just couldn't convince them anything bcos of how conservative they are. I heard religious teachers said on TV that Islam favors blind faith over logical thinking so Muslims shouldn't first and foremost use logic when dealing with religion. I couldn't believe what I just heard. If this is what humans should be, then I don't think the world could have advanced to what it is now.

There are some controversial verses of Quran and Hadiths that I just couldn't make sense of, especially the part about the prophet's wife Aisha. I've had non muslims asking me about this, no matter how hard I tried to make sense, I know deep in my heart I was just convincing myself, not them. Aisha might be a smart, mature girl for her age, but sorry this is not excuse for pedophilia. Would you marry off your girl to a 50+ old man , just to be fair, assuming the man is not just plain old man, but handsome , looking younger than his actual age, very kind in heart and very religious, even with the girl's consent? Apologists will say this was acceptable at that time, but I thought Islam is supposed to be timeless as I was taught in school. If he is the perfect role model then I think all muslims should aspire to do the same thing as well. Child marriages is still an actual thing happening now and it strips off lives of young girls. Some of these girls suffer complications at childbirth like anal fistula because they are too young to give birth. Some cases girls die of internal bleeding because their sexual organs are not compatible. I understand that the girl needed to be checked whether they're ready to withstand penetration, I say this can be misjudged and girls are not born just to be penetrated.

I became agnostic several months ago, I stopped praying 5 times. No, no satan is whispering on me. How can I blame the satan for my own actions? Tbh it left a void in me but this is just because I lost something I used to usually keep in my heart. I was like a meat lover who just became vegan. But after some while I felt normal like every other person but sad that I have to pretend to my family all of my life. I'm not really happy not believing in God, I want to believe spiritually, I want to be in heaven with all my loved ones, but with these flaws in religion I just couldn't. If there are anybody here who used to be atheists/agnostic, can you share how did you even make sense of this? I don't want to continuously pretend to everyone. Soo sorry for the length and Tq

**Samiul123** · 05-14-2017

Sister Kazu, the way I believe is through the Quran which you talked about. The Quran is the best book for why you should believe in god as a whole. You see in youtube as you type in a sura the people from far time throughout have recited the Quran's words for every sura the exact same way as you find a quran in a book. Inshallah sister you should study more and be guided ameen.

**Simple_Person** · 05-14-2017

Originally Posted by *charisma*

But we aren't talking about men marrying older women?? So I don't understand your point?

Your link isn't working, but if you believe that all 9 year olds can be depicted in one picture you are in for a rude awakening. Also don't twist my words, men are attracted to attractive girls. If a 9 year old has the body of a 14 year old, then where's your argument?? Because these girls exist. Please expand your knowledge. Not all 9 year old girls look alike here. Secondly, if it's a rare thing for a man to be attracted to a 9 year old girl as you say, then what's the problem? If it's a rarity then you don't have to worry about it considering the cases would be quite individual and it wouldn't be your place to judge when you don't know all the details.

Don't make me laugh...loooool "evolutionary drives." Go tell those who are having premarital sex that their "evolutionary drive" is failing them when they hit it and quit it. Where is the emotional and rational connection you speak of during those times?? looool subhanallah.

No, it's not "extremely" dangerous. It just has some risks. Teen pregnancy is VERY common. Also if the hips are too small they can have a c-section.

Sister leave the argument. This brother doesn't want to understand certain things. He looks at such things from a shallow modern way of life. Sees such things as black and white and from a western point of view. While I 100% agree with you that it isn't black and white. I see girls 14-15 years old having the body of a 30 year old women so being attracted to it well is being attracted to it. However when looking at their behavior being continuously on their smartphone like a child shows the shallow and childish mentality of today. Women even though around my age of today also very shallow minded are preoccupied by Kim Kardashian things. It is a doomed generation.

In the past as an atheist I tried to date a western girl and I remember I seriously got so annoyed and even told her why are we even trying to hang out with each other. There is no real talk in our conversations...we have nothing in common ..all I hear from you is useless talk and I am seriously annoyed by it. I remember also if the amount of text that I type here and other members type in their comments..she would already be bored and stopped reading after 2-3 sentences. She even told be a lot of times. I don't get it how one can express themselves in 2-3 sentences?? I did not get it how other men are able to cope out with such shallow people. Or is it all for the sake of getting zina? How low have men become. Alhamdulillah I never could become like them even as an atheist as that wasn't part of my character I tried to mentally force myself to be like it but I just couldn't treat another human being like piece of garbage. Alhamdulillah for all the good that Allah has given me as part of my character.

And you know what? She was about 2 years younger than I was. Society has be ome useless everybody like sheep following one another nobody is thinking and nobody is asking questions. The best is to seek refuge in your own homes.

**Simple_Person** · 05-14-2017

Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth

I don't think anyone on this thread is a scholar who is well learned on exactly what was the situation with Aisha (ra) and there are different takes on her age and consummation of the marriage (and no, I don't mean the apologist take). I don't think there is a man alive today who can even come remotely close to how fair, just and God fearing our prophet was. I truly don't believe there are any exceptions to marrying off a 9 year old in this age. Allahu Alim.

Even if a girl is an early developer (I was one and so is my daughter), getting your first period doesn't mean you are fully developed. It takes years of menstruation and hormone fluctuations to get a fully developed womanly shape. I still had not developed a real womanly shape even 3 years after my first period. Also, early onset menstruation is actually a hormonal imbalance and girls with more adipose tissue than muscle tend to menstruate earlier. Adipose tissue stores hormones.

In modern days, early onset menstruation it is known to be caused by the hormones and steroids in conventional dairy and meat products. Girls 100 years ago were starting to menstruate at about 14/15 years of age, imagine earlier times.

And don't get me started about modern "medicine" and their lack of faith in Allah and how perfectly he created the human body. A pregnant body WILL ADAPT. There is no such thing as "hips that are too small". There are women who never get wide hips and give birth to very big babies. If we take care of the body properly, it will behave as it should.

There are some scholars who say she was of that age there are others who say she was older. My approach is she was of the age of being a woman in Islam AND also agreed to marry Rasullah (saws).

These two things are the ONLY VALID things from a valid point of view for a woman to marry. Forced marriages are haram so how could Aisha (ra) marry Rasullah (saws) if she did not agree to it?..That would have been contradictory to the message Rasullah (saws) was sending. Secondly she must be a woman again if she would not have been this would have been contradictory to the message of what Rasullah (saws) was sending. Knowing this..what was her age then? Allah knows best. Is it relevant for me to know? Absolutely not. If I would have a 25 year old daughter looking at her body looking like a woman but having a childish mentality I would NOT agree for her to marry. She would do herself, her husband and her children injustice of she would marry. This however is not reflected upon on the western world.

**greenhill** · 05-14-2017

I realised that my answer was too short but I was hoping that sister Kazu would watch the Jeffrey Lang video on Youtube as I believe it would help explain some of her own questions and perhaps doubts. But I guess she hasn't.

If you are still wondering about Aisha, I heard (maybe read) where this narrative explained how, first of all the prophet loved and lived with a SINGLE woman, Khadijah until her death and sometime after, even. He was faithful to her although she was a divorcee. The prophet, pbuh, only became a polygamist AFTER Khadijah's death and even then for political alliances, freeing of slaves and also to make clear of laws of permissibilites. Never had the prophet have a 'special' woman for him that was a virgin except for Aisha that Allah had arranged for him. This, coupled with the fact that we should judge muslims by what is permissible in islam and not by what is acceptable by Western standards, means that there is really nothing to be really concerned abut.

To add to this, sometime last week I came across a video of a third world country kid of probably 7 years old, taking care of an infant baby and the comments that were strewn by people from developed countries were words to the effect of "I wouldn't trust my teenagers to do this"! .. How come? It is not that the children are not capable, the west also knows this, England had children doing dangerous jobs during the times of the industrial revolution. The death rates and injuries doing the jobs were no different to those of adult labourers and is due to the lack in safety measures and not immaturity. In any case, exploitation is not good, and those kids were, hence the gradual laws to 'protect' them.

Moving on a bit, you mentioned about innocent kids made to suffer and I would like to draw your attention to the story of Khidr and Musa pbut about the killing of the child (or was it both?), there are many stories from within the Quran that, if we studied more closely, gives glimpses of unseen logic, the Wisdom of Allah. Besides, we are not told to judge the affairs of others but to concern ourselves with our own matters. Our own matters has the number one duty as being Allah's humble and dutiful servant. This 'belief' would radiate outwards to how we would dictate our actions and speech. What happens to others are the test which Allah has set for them. What we should be realising is how fortunate we are not to be test such as theirs. We should thankful for having our lives in better shape than them, hence we could even go as far as saying our problems are pale in comparison and appreciate what Allah has given us (but not to forget to dua for those suffering)..

Really, there are some more thoughts on the OP but it is getting long already...

**M.I.A.** · 05-14-2017

Originally Posted by Kazu

Greetings people, Muslims and nons, no offense to the Muslims. I want to get this off my chest for a long time. I'm a closet ex-muslim, 22. Since childhood I had so many doubts about Islam, particularly about the existence of God himself. How can God let really evil things happen? if everything evil meant to happen because God wants to test us and given that the tests given aren't supposed to exceed our limit as humans, why do God let terrible things happen to children? There are cases some children were kidnapped from their houses, was gang-raped, and burnt to death. How was that a test? I may just be really ignorant for not making sense of this, kindly, please enlighten me.

But then, after all of that, I would repent to Allah and became religious. I found myself always going back and forth. In the past, I used to cry in my sujood, I used to cry when reading the Koran, I used to be very careful with my thinking bcos I feared Allah so much. I loved Ramadhan very much, that's the only time I truly felt connected to Allah by doing extra prayers, learning stuff & taking care of my inner self. Normally people would usually dread bcos of the fasting, but really I loved Ramadhan, it truly made me a better person, but just like every other religion will make people become a better person. My family weren't very religious, so I searched God most by myself. But until I opened myself to the outer world, I started becoming friends with some non muslims, reading forums and articles etc. I changed my views on life, I became very liberal in my thinking, and this wasn't a good thing. I debated with my muslim friends and I just couldn't convince them anything bcos of how conservative they are. I heard religious teachers said on TV that Islam favors blind faith over logical thinking so Muslims shouldn't first and foremost use logic when dealing with religion. I couldn't believe what I just heard. If this is what humans should be, then I don't think the world could have advanced to what it is now.

There are some controversial verses of Quran and Hadiths that I just couldn't make sense of, especially the part about the prophet's wife Aisha. I've had non muslims asking me about this, no matter how hard I tried to make sense, I know deep in my heart I was just convincing myself, not them. Aisha might be a smart, mature girl for her age, but sorry this is not excuse for pedophilia. Would you marry off your girl to a 50+ old man , just to be fair, assuming the man is not just plain old man, but handsome , looking younger than his actual age, very kind in heart and very religious, even with the girl's consent? Apologists will say this was acceptable at that time, but I thought Islam is supposed to be timeless as I was taught in school. If he is the perfect role model then I think all muslims should aspire to do the same thing as well. Child marriages is still an actual thing happening now and it strips off lives of young girls. Some of these girls suffer complications at childbirth like anal fistula because they are too young to give birth. Some cases girls die of internal bleeding because their sexual organs are not compatible. I understand that the girl needed to be checked whether they're ready to withstand penetration, I say this can be misjudged and girls are not born just to be penetrated.

I became agnostic several months ago, I stopped praying 5 times. No, no satan is whispering on me. How can I blame the satan for my own actions? Tbh it left a void in me but this is just because I lost something I used to usually keep in my heart. I was like a meat lover who just became vegan. But after some while I felt normal like every other person but sad that I have to pretend to my family all of my life. I'm not really happy not believing in God, I want to believe spiritually, I want to be in heaven with all my loved ones, but with these flaws in religion I just couldn't. If there are anybody here who used to be atheists/agnostic, can you share how did you even make sense of this? I don't want to continuously pretend to everyone. Soo sorry for the length and Tq

Bad things happen because our lives are always intertwined..

People are unaware of what they do when they start or finish or anything in between..

And most people get by just fine without that understanding.

So you either open and close your own doors or hope..

That something you have not met yet is a good doorman.

Pray more

Or play more..

Allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.

I aint ever seen a person turn up to football and get worse.

..so why would anyone be content with sitting on the sidelines getting fat.

Heres waiting on the day.. to be told the truth of all that we did.

But to be honest.. the truth is subjective..

And i dont really know What you class as successful.. or what it costs.

Mankind is insolence and competition..

Not many people would lead you to a successful life..

Although i suppose part of you already knows that.

...but if your empathy allows for locked doors then they come with there own struggles.

See, a nice simple answer for ya.

**TDWT** · 05-14-2017

Originally Posted by Simple_Person

Sister leave the argument. This brother doesn't want to understand certain things. He looks at such things from a shallow modern way of life. Sees such things as black and white and from a western point of view. While I 100% agree with you that it isn't black and white. I see girls 14-15 years old having the body of a 30 year old women so being attracted to it well is being attracted to it. However when looking at their behavior being continuously on their smartphone like a child shows the shallow and childish mentality of today. Women even though around my age of today also very shallow minded are preoccupied by Kim Kardashian things. It is a doomed generation.

In the past as an atheist I tried to date a western girl and I remember I seriously got so annoyed and even told her why are we even trying to hang out with each other. There is no real talk in our conversations...we have nothing in common ..all I hear from you is useless talk and I am seriously annoyed by it. I remember also if the amount of text that I type here and other members type in their comments..she would already be bored and stopped reading after 2-3 sentences. She even told be a lot of times. I don't get it how one can express themselves in 2-3 sentences?? I did not get it how other men are able to cope out with such shallow people. Or is it all for the sake of getting zina? How low have men become. Alhamdulillah I never could become like them even as an atheist as that wasn't part of my character I tried to mentally force myself to be like it but I just couldn't treat another human being like piece of garbage. Alhamdulillah for all the good that Allah has given me as part of my character.

And you know what? She was about 2 years younger than I was. Society has be ome useless everybody like sheep following one another nobody is thinking and nobody is asking questions. The best is to seek refuge in your own homes.

Oh don't give me that excuse, that I am 'westernized' or something. This is my own mentality. We were talking about 9 year old and I don't think they should have sex at all, period.

**Simple_Person** · 05-14-2017

Originally Posted by TDWT

Oh don't give me that excuse, that I am 'westernized' or something. This is my own mentality. We were talking about 9 year old and I don't think they should have sex at all, period.

There are people who say a woman of 40 shouldn't also marry a man who is 25 years old but what matters is what Allah has made permissible and what you are doing is looking from a shallow point of view as if people are "attracted" to children. The problem is not the ruling rather your mentality and how you look at. But anyways you are not able to understand what we are tying to say.

**M.I.A.** · 05-14-2017

Originally Posted by TDWT

Oh don't give me that excuse, that I am 'westernized' or something. This is my own mentality. We were talking about 9 year old and I don't think they should have sex at all, period.

Historically, the age of marriage is debatable..

Google it and you will find cases made for the young age of marriage.

They are written by muslim authors but the case is made either way.

And they are well written.

Not muslim sources show a differing opinion from amongst themselves..

Which is interesting.

But yeah, it is a westernised opinion you hold and one that is the general consensus for the era.

Like monogamy.

But if you dont have to do something, then most people dont do it.. unless they have reason and intent..

And those vary considerably.

https://youtu.be/HsbWwXaujp8

**Kazu** · 07-15-2017

Originally Posted by Simple_Person

There are people who say a woman of 40 shouldn't also marry a man who is 25 years old but what matters is what Allah has made permissible and what you are doing is looking from a shallow point of view as if people are "attracted" to children. The problem is not the ruling rather your mentality and how you look at. But anyways you are not able to understand what we are tying to say.

Since I can't send a private message anymore, let me just write here responding to your previous pm to me

Hi.. I'm still here, more agnostic than ever, although a little bit more inclined to deism rather than atheism, and more away from Islam ever since. I'm calmer now, since you told me to stay away from the social media for a couple months, at least mainstream medias. I'm sorry I didn't get the part you said I should mark your words that I will one day realize what you meant. Don't you think what you are saying is just, stereotyping?

That one moment when you bow down to your god and feel the calmness, and all of a sudden things just suddenly fits properly into the islamic expectation you had, then maybe after a couple while learning to adjust yourself with that belief system, eventually you accepted you have became a muslim again. This is cognitive bias.

You do realize people find solace in whatever they believe is comforting, prayers, in just ANY religion at all. People die believing in the religion they submit to because they found so much comfort in it, and more importantly the community that intensely support the belief system and the welfare of its people.

Just because I find comfort in praying and the idea someone always has my back, does that make him immediately real? On what basis you would think God is real at that moment if it weren't for confirmation bias? Maybe you have this pre-existing idea in the back of your head, you still wanted to believe god is real because all these bad things you have done made you feel guilty and trying to find reasons for this restlessness. (because you haven't done it before and its a culture shock! and realizing people who converted away from islam are more likely to have these type of behaviour, why don't you think this is because they were previously strictly restrained from it? People always want what they can't have. Moreover, a typical nowadays westerner teenager/young adult do actively engage in these behaviour.)

Now there's nobody you can turn to, except one whom you've been told will ALWAYS have your back, who is allah. and you confirmed it, in bias. Once you start believing in God Allah, you are obligated to follow all of his teachings, thus strengthening your faith even more.

Disagreeing with me is not possible anymore because you can't doubt Allah once you submitted to him. A muslim must always think of Allah with well intention and thoughts even if things seem to be going in the opposite direction than what was well intended, because you can't comprehend him, maybe what he was doing is for the greater good. You will find any reasons at all from islamic point of view to validate your stance, as I will validate my stance, although I believe I'm being on the more neutral side here. This MAYBE was your action.

Now my point is, this general idea of 'feeling' 'founding solace and comfort' 'just feeeelingg and bowing down' or telling me that I 'WILL realize' one day ; is not a very good tactic at all as just any one coming from another religion can tell you the same thing, and reverted back to their previous religion. Take david wood as an example and that 'converted2islam' guy who had converted back to christianity.

**Search** · 07-15-2017

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

@Kazu

As your well-wisher, sister, we can only guide you to the extent that you are willing to be guided. You are right on one end that all religions purport to offer comfort and security for the believer of that religion and certainly in that regard Islam cannot be said to be an exception. However, not all religions will equally appeal to different people for different reasons.

As Muslims we cannot advise you except to good. So, knowing the state of your heart, I can only advise you to continue to ponder, think, reflect, travel the earth, and meditate whenever you're able with the intention that you be shown the path that is best. Moreover, I think you should pray as sincerely as you can the typical atheist/agnostic prayer, which goes something like, "O God, if there is a god, if you're there, guide me to your Guidance." Of course, you can change the prayer to suit your spiritual needs or feelings of whatever at the moment, but I think this prayer is a good prayer to pray for whoever is a doubter because it is leaving the responsibility of being given the guidance to the Guide. And once you pray that prayer, please do not expect the sky to shift, the earth to open, or the sea waves to stop its waves, because all that prayer guarantees is that that guidance will be given to you by the Guide at the most appropriate and opportune time; in the meantime, you should live your life to the best of your morals, character, and judgment.

Also, you're right that as Muslims we'll be biased towards the faith and path we have chosen for ourselves. However, please do give thought to examining your own biases on what you think religion is/should be and why and what you believe what you do at the moment; because trust that self-reflection and introspection will specifically better move you towards the direction of truth if you're searching for truth and improve the condition of your heart than generally extrospection.

Finally, individuals like David Wood and converted2islam are at the end of the day two individuals, individuals who have flaws just like you and me and the rest of humanity. But I assume unlike you and me and many people from humankind, these individuals are semi-known YouTube personalities, yet you cannot say you know them at the end of the day any more than they know you. And all you would know are things that they choose, meaning, you have no choice in what information is known to you, specifically their inner hearts and motives. Therefore, I do not think you should take them as examples of what you can or cannot think about religion. Rather, you should take them as individuals that represent only their opinions and themselves in much the same way that I represent only myself and my opinion and you represent only yourself and your opinions. You cannot be said to represent at this moment deism any more than you can be said to represent atheism, for example.

Also, if you're going to try to learn about what path is best for you, I suggest you also try to hang out with the modern-day individuals whom you perceive as displaying or embodying that path in the best way to see if you would like to adopt that path. And if you find that even the people who embody that path in the best way are not the people whom you would like to emulate, then I suggest you walk away because then probably that path is not best for you. Perhaps you may not realize this, but I think you're perhaps in the inner search mode without knowing so, and thereby are unable to appreciate the gift of Islam as yet, but I think all is not lost if you're willing to humble yourself enough to pray the agnostic/atheist prayer because humility is something that Allah appreciates from any servant of humankind who is so willing to dress himself/herself with that dress. And Allah honors seekers who humble themselves for the sake of guidance.

Sincere Regards & Best Wishes,

***charisma*** · 07-15-2017

Originally Posted by Kazu

Now there's nobody you can turn to, except one whom you've been told will ALWAYS have your back, who is allah. and you confirmed it, in bias. Once you start believing in God Allah, you are obligated to follow all of his teachings, thus strengthening your faith even more.

Something about faith is, you either have it or you don't. Those who don't have it won't believe no matter how much they want to; and those who have it cannot disbelieve no matter how difficult it is for them to comprehend the difficulties or confusions they go through. [...]Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills[...] (14:4)

Originally Posted by Kazu

Disagreeing with me is not possible anymore because you can't doubt Allah once you submitted to him.

This is contradictory considering you considered yourself a Muslim at one time, and considering that there are people who do stray from the religion. I can't tell you much about what you're going through or how you cope with life because every individual's journey to faith is different. However, to say that people believe in God or religion simply because it is "comforting" is not true. As you know, people can live very comfortable lives without religion. In fact, Islam tells us that this world is a prison for the believers and a paradise for the disbelievers. You think that what makes your heart ache is suffering and a test and therefore religion allows you to cope with the trials of life, true, but this is just one side of the coin. We are tested with the blessings in our life too, such as how we spend our wealth, how we raise our children, how we treat those around us, etc. Everything is taken into account and this doesn't bring a believer comfort to know that he can be making mistakes or guilty for a sin even when everything good is going in his life. Take into account those who do not fit the mold of a "perfect Muslim." For example, is it a comforting life for a muslim man who believes he is homosexual and his desires are contradictory to his beliefs? How about a woman who is gifted with a beautiful singing voice or a talent but knows that she is not able to share it with the world? You say you feel comfort in sujood as an ex-muslim, well imagine how a Muslim who prays 5x a day feels when he is unable to connect to His Lord. Or how about the wealthy person who cannot feel proud because pride can take you directly to hellfire. Ask these people why they believe in God, or did they leave their religion because of their whims and desires?? Basically what I'm saying here is despite how religion makes us feel, how it is in line or against our daily trials of life, what our whims and desires are, if you have faith, you will have it despite anything and everything you go through because you have an untouchable faith, not because of how you "feel" or what you were equipped with in life. In fact, if anything, people LEAVE their religion because they are seeking comfort. Because let's be honest here, it's much easier to say "this religion can't be true because it doesn't correlate with who I am/what my family believes/how I was born/my society/etc." than to say "this religion is true despite of who I am." It's easier to follow a lifestyle that supports everything you want to do in life without repercussions than to follow one which restricts you. So no. Religion doesn't always bring about a comfortable life; but alternatively there are those who have done everything in their life with the support of their family and friends, and have not found happiness or comfort in that either. However, an atheist doesn't just go "oh I'm unhappy in my life, let me pretend to believe in God so that I can find solace." It doesn't work that way. Faith in Allah is also not enough to be a proper muslim, rather it must transpire into our intentions, speech, and actions, too, and I don't think that's easy either. The solace you speak about, that's the topping on the cake, not the cake itself. It wouldn't matter what religion one is in if the goal was comfort.

Originally Posted by Kazu

you still wanted to believe god is real because all these bad things you have done made you feel guilty and trying to find reasons for this restlessness. (because you haven't done it before and its a culture shock! and realizing people who converted away from islam are more likely to have these type of behaviour, why don't you think this is because they were previously strictly restrained from it? People always want what they can't have. Moreover, a typical nowadays westerner teenager/young adult do actively engage in these behaviour.)

Culture shock? We live in the west. And you don't need to leave Islam to the sinful things you want to do. For example, drinking, partying, engaging in premarital/extramarital relationships all still happen even while one is Muslim, and repenting from them doesn't stop the guilt.

**Hamza Asadullah** · 07-15-2017

Originally Posted by Kazu

Greetings people, Muslims and nons, no offense to the Muslims. I want to get this off my chest for a long time. I'm a closet ex-muslim, 22. Since childhood I had so many doubts about Islam, particularly about the existence of God himself. How can God let really evil things happen? if everything evil meant to happen because God wants to test us and given that the tests given aren't supposed to exceed our limit as humans, why do God let terrible things happen to children? There are cases some children were kidnapped from their houses, was gang-raped, and burnt to death. How was that a test? I may just be really ignorant for not making sense of this, kindly, please enlighten me.

Greetings Kazu,

It seems that at an early age rather than learn correct knowledge of Islam in order to solidify your imaan and clarify your misconceptions, you referred instead to atheist and anti-Islamic perspectives, sources, websites and mainstream media.

With regards to why you think God allows "evil" things to happen then firstly everything only happens by the will. God allows people to live the way they want to live and make the choices they want to make in life. Whether that is evil or good. Is that not what freewill is? On top of that we in our limited capacity, do not understand why things happen just as science can try to explain how some things happen but never why. Similarly we do not understand the wisdom of God in why certain things happen but know that we are responsible for our actions and whatever hardships and trials we go through in this short and temporary life then it is nothing compared to the ever lasting joy and bliss of Paradise. If you compare then the evil inflicted upon people then this is nothing compared to the punishment they will recieve for their crimes.

However this is not what Atheists believe. To believe in life after death is to believe in justice for those who were wronged. It is only God who will ensure those who were wronged are given true and proper justice. Not an atom of injustice will there be in the court of Allah. Whereas this world is full of injustice and corrupt people who do not allow proper justice for those who are wronged.

So do you think that the many millions of people who have died whilst wronged on this Earth will get no justice after they died? Will they and those who wronged them just turn into "dust"? Essentially Atheists do not believe that there is any difference between the worst and best of mankind because they will both just "disappear" after death, hence there will be no justice for anyone. Hence atheism believes in complete injustice. What a miserable, purposeless way to live life.

Originally Posted by Kazu

But then, after all of that, I would repent to Allah and became religious. I found myself always going back and forth. In the past, I used to cry in my sujood, I used to cry when reading the Koran, I used to be very careful with my thinking bcos I feared Allah so much. I loved Ramadhan very much, that's the only time I truly felt connected to Allah by doing extra prayers, learning stuff & taking care of my inner self. Normally people would usually dread bcos of the fasting, but really I loved Ramadhan, it truly made me a better person, but just like every other religion will make people become a better person. My family weren't very religious, so I searched God most by myself. But until I opened myself to the outer world, I started becoming friends with some non muslims, reading forums and articles etc. I changed my views on life, I became very liberal in my thinking, and this wasn't a good thing. I debated with my muslim friends and I just couldn't convince them anything bcos of how conservative they are. I heard religious teachers said on TV that Islam favors blind faith over logical thinking so Muslims shouldn't first and foremost use logic when dealing with religion. I couldn't believe what I just heard. If this is what humans should be, then I don't think the world could have advanced to what it is now.

You have pinpointed the root of your own problems in allowing yourself to become "corrupted" by so called liberal thinking and opening your heart and soul to non Muslim anti religion, atheist viewpoints. However there is still hope because there is still something left in your heart that makes you yearn back towards Allah. This is what you have to work with.

Mankind has only advanced to what it has achieved today by the will of Allah. He created our minds to think, create and progress. However Mankind must not think it is "greater" than the created as we can still not create even a fly. Cloning is not "creating", it is replicating. We are so reliant on Allah for everything we have today. From fossil fuels, to food, water, clean air, mountains, stability of the seas not overcoming the land, I can go on and on. On top of that if a earth quake, tsunami, volcano erupts or a tornado strikes then no matter what technology we have then we are powerless to stop and prevent the damage they will cause. Therefore we must contemplate and ponder as to how reliant and vulnerable we are and humble ourselves and never become arrogant and think we have progressed technologically on our own.

With regards to logic and blind faith then Islam does encourage logical reason but within the boundaries defined by the Shari'ah. This is why Allah has given us a brain, to think and be critical. To learn and to clarify. But surely we must realise that the intellect of man is very limited and as such, we will not always be able to comprehend the wisdom of divine law. Science - if that is your current religion - has not even begun to explain the origins of life, the universe, where we came from, our own miraculous human bodies, the Earth itself and much much more, and you talk about us being able to fully understand divine knowledge? Where is the logic in that?

Originally Posted by Kazu

There are some controversial verses of Quran and Hadiths that I just couldn't make sense of, especially the part about the prophet's wife Aisha. I've had non muslims asking me about this, no matter how hard I tried to make sense, I know deep in my heart I was just convincing myself, not them. Aisha might be a smart, mature girl for her age, but sorry this is not excuse for pedophilia. Would you marry off your girl to a 50+ old man , just to be fair, assuming the man is not just plain old man, but handsome , looking younger than his actual age, very kind in heart and very religious, even with the girl's consent? Apologists will say this was acceptable at that time, but I thought Islam is supposed to be timeless as I was taught in school. If he is the perfect role model then I think all muslims should aspire to do the same thing as well. Child marriages is still an actual thing happening now and it strips off lives of young girls. Some of these girls suffer complications at childbirth like anal fistula because they are too young to give birth. Some cases girls die of internal bleeding because their sexual organs are not compatible. I understand that the girl needed to be checked whether they're ready to withstand penetration, I say this can be misjudged and girls are not born just to be penetrated.

These are typical anti Islamic, orientalist arguments against Islam. Firstly there is no doubt that after puberty females are physically ready to have relations and bare children. This cannot be disputed from any stand point. The age at which girls go through puberty varies depending on region and other factors. However what we do certainly know is that regardless of the age, the marriage was consummated after puberty, when Aisha (Ra) was physically ready. Secondly the age of Aisha (Ra) when she married the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) was not even an issue that was used to attack him until recent times. This is because it was not just the "norm" in the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) era and society but it was the practice in many other era's and societies throughout history. On top of that it was Aisha (Ra) Father who approached the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Waallam) to marry his daughter which shows it was customary during the time.

During the times of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam), he had the most staunchest of enemies who used everything they possibly could in order to attack him. However neither they or anyone else in that era ever attacked him for the age he married Aisha (Ra). This is because again it was not something "strange" but the social norm of the time. Let me give you a couple of examples. In today's society, women are almost on par with men in terms of working, driving, going out and living independent lives etc. However in those days, women hardly went out of the house as they took care of children and household matters. Another example is in today's society homosexuality and transgender-ism is accepted almost as the "norm", however in those days such people were outcast and even killed as such practices were viewed as an abomination.

So to even begin to compare the way our societies are today with the societies of 1400 years ago is totally absurd. On top of that you have young girls in today's society giving birth at aged 11. Sexual practices among young teenagers are rampant in today's society and getting much worse. The Prophet (Sallallahu ALaihi Wasallam) emphasised marriage in the right manner and forbade any relations outside of marriage. Islam is the only way of life that is strict upon this to the point where it even segregates the sexes in order to even avoid even the slightest possibility of illegitimate relations. Relations outside of marriage lead to all sorts of crimes against humanity. Due to the world being corrupted by atheist secularism, many of the societies of today are strife with rape, fornication, adultery, pedophilia, promiscuity, rapidly increasing sexually transmitted diseases. These and all other evils are the very things that our Deen came to protect us and our societies from.

Originally Posted by Kazu

I became agnostic several months ago, I stopped praying 5 times. No, no satan is whispering on me. How can I blame the satan for my own actions? Tbh it left a void in me but this is just because I lost something I used to usually keep in my heart. I was like a meat lover who just became vegan. But after some while I felt normal like every other person but sad that I have to pretend to my family all of my life. I'm not really happy not believing in God, I want to believe spiritually, I want to be in heaven with all my loved ones, but with these flaws in religion I just couldn't. If there are anybody here who used to be atheists/agnostic, can you share how did you even make sense of this? I don't want to continuously pretend to everyone. Soo sorry for the length and Tq

Your misconceptions are flaws in your own thinking and unfortunately all of this is your own doing. You have put the very foundations of your faith in accordance with modern day scientific theories, anti Islamic, atheist websites and arguments and mainstream media. It is most unfortunate that you have allowed your heart and soul to be corrupted in such a way and I can feel that your heart and soul is crying out for help. For it yearns for Allah again. From many of your views in this thread, it is unfortunate that you have been completely sold by Atheist thinking and arguments. This is because you have spent far too much time and energy looking into anti Islamic and atheist perspectives and modern day scientific theories and trying to reconcile them with your Deen.

So for the sake of rebuilding your Imaan, completely stop referring to anti Islamic and Atheist debates and arguments and mainstream news media. These Atheists and anti-Islamists will always try to come up with all sorts of reasons not to believe in religion and God and this is because they also want everyone else not to believe like they don't. They are a part of an anti religion, anti-Islamic agenda. They like you are not happy within themselves. They are empty and bitter people. Hence why you will see them get aggressive and dismissive very quickly. Their arguments are only convincing to those who already have deficiencies in their heart.

So you must not befriend non Muslims except to interact with them to what is necessary. You must also stop continuing to corrupt your heart, mind and soul with their baseless arguments and theories that are ever changing. I have heard plenty of speeches, arguments and debates from atheists like Dawkins and they are constantly changing their views, saying one thing but when quoted they said something different they lie and contradict themselves. Whereas Islam is how it was over 1400 years ago. Our scriptures have never changed but Islam is completely dynamic and is and always will be for all times. If it had changed as other religions have and as science changes constantly, then it would not be as it is today the most practiced religion on Earth with the most convinced and firm believers of any other faith or belief in this entire Earth. Just because certain atheist scientists are given a platform it does not mean they represent "all scientists" as many scientists believe in God or an intelligent designer. Even Darwin never "dismissed" the idea of God but he was torn between belief and disbelief.

So you know what you have to do. Now is the time to rebuild your Imaan. If we keep putting oil in water then it will make the water undrinkable. Similarly if we keep corrupting our hearts and souls with lies, contradictions and filth then it will be devoid of Imaan. So let us feed our hearts, souls and minds with goodness and you will see eventually that your Imaan will become stronger again. In the latter part of the night when it is quite and you are alone with you and God then raise up your hands unto him like you used to. Ask of him and beg and cry unto him. Know that he never turns away the one who calls upon him. Ask of him sincerely for help and guidance. Walk towards him so he can run towards you. But do not delay in doing so because we know not at which moment death can overcome us and it is shaythans wish that we die as disbelievers so we are never able to enter Paradise.

May Allah guide you and all those who have deficiencies and doubts in their hearts. Ameen

I found the following articles very interesting:

12 Famous Scientists On The Possibility Of God

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b057d7d7c7a1e5

Scientists Prove Again that Life is the Result of Intelligent Design

https://www.algemeiner.com/2011/08/1...ligent-design/

Most Scientists Believe in God

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...Believe-in-God

**Eric H** · 07-15-2017

Greetings and peace be with you Kazu;

Disagreeing with me is not possible anymore because you can't doubt Allah once you submitted to him.

The creation of the universe is history. Allah the creator of all that is seen and unseen either exists fully and totally, or there is no god. There cannot be a maybe creator, it's yes or no.

No matter what you believe, you cannot change history.

If Allah exists fully and totally, then there is the need to search for him. All truth must lead towards compassion, kindness, patience, forgiveness and mercy and obeying God's commandments. Some of the biggest injustices in this world are against the poor, they are exploited in all ways, yet it says....

Once, when his companions asked him: "O Messenger of Allah, what are the most excellent of actions?"

The beloved of Allah, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, replied:--

"To gladden the heart of human beings,
To feed the hungry,
To help the afflicted,
To lighten the sorrow of the sorrowful, and
To remove the sufferings of the injured." [Sahih Bukhari].

So, over to us all... let's put this into practice in everyday life.

In the spirit of searching for Allah

Eric

**Simple_Person** · 07-15-2017

Originally Posted by Kazu

Since I can't send a private message anymore, let me just write here responding to your previous pm to me

Hi.. I'm still here, more agnostic than ever, although a little bit more inclined to deism rather than atheism, and more away from Islam ever since. I'm calmer now, since you told me to stay away from the social media for a couple months, at least mainstream medias. I'm sorry I didn't get the part you said I should mark your words that I will one day realize what you meant. Don't you think what you are saying is just, stereotyping?

That one moment when you bow down to your god and feel the calmness, and all of a sudden things just suddenly fits properly into the islamic expectation you had, then maybe after a couple while learning to adjust yourself with that belief system, eventually you accepted you have became a muslim again. This is cognitive bias.

You do realize people find solace in whatever they believe is comforting, prayers, in just ANY religion at all. People die believing in the religion they submit to because they found so much comfort in it, and more importantly the community that intensely support the belief system and the welfare of its people.

Just because I find comfort in praying and the idea someone always has my back, does that make him immediately real? On what basis you would think God is real at that moment if it weren't for confirmation bias? Maybe you have this pre-existing idea in the back of your head, you still wanted to believe god is real because all these bad things you have done made you feel guilty and trying to find reasons for this restlessness. (because you haven't done it before and its a culture shock! and realizing people who converted away from islam are more likely to have these type of behaviour, why don't you think this is because they were previously strictly restrained from it? People always want what they can't have. Moreover, a typical nowadays westerner teenager/young adult do actively engage in these behaviour.)

Now there's nobody you can turn to, except one whom you've been told will ALWAYS have your back, who is allah. and you confirmed it, in bias. Once you start believing in God Allah, you are obligated to follow all of his teachings, thus strengthening your faith even more.

Disagreeing with me is not possible anymore because you can't doubt Allah once you submitted to him. A muslim must always think of Allah with well intention and thoughts even if things seem to be going in the opposite direction than what was well intended, because you can't comprehend him, maybe what he was doing is for the greater good. You will find any reasons at all from islamic point of view to validate your stance, as I will validate my stance, although I believe I'm being on the more neutral side here. This MAYBE was your action.

Now my point is, this general idea of 'feeling' 'founding solace and comfort' 'just feeeelingg and bowing down' or telling me that I 'WILL realize' one day ; is not a very good tactic at all as just any one coming from another religion can tell you the same thing, and reverted back to their previous religion. Take david wood as an example and that 'converted2islam' guy who had converted back to christianity.

The other day once again i was thinking about the time i was an atheist and now being a Muslim. You know what i realized...i said people are DOOMED. Why did i say that to myself? Because having experienced BOTH worlds, i was blind. It is hard to explain in exact words, but it is like having a wall between you and the other side. You have absolutely NO idea what is going on. Not even one bit. This is not the "feeling" that i am talking about. Me and a lot of other people here can tell you or give you as much knowledge as possible, but you will NOT UNDERSTAND it. This is what i am talking about and it has NOTHING to do with feeling or some "emotional"-nonsense like you hear from other faiths. This not being guided, it is like being blind, but not even having the SLIGHTEST idea of being blind. You have a absolutely NO clue that you are blind and nothing..i repeat NOTHING will made you realize that you really are blind. That is the ultimate scary thing about it. Again these are words, many reverts will understand these words of mine to the core, while born-Muslims and people of other faiths will not. Again it has absolutely NOTHING to do with "feeling". The words in the Qur'an of what Allah says about when He sets one astray nobody can guide. It also is not that typical thing of Christians of "oooh i have seen the light..Jesus is my lord and savior"-thing. When this guidance happens the eyes that did not see before will suddenly see things it did not see before. The mind will process things in such a pace that you KNOW this is NOT normal for the average human being. The heart becomes calm while situations people would fall in panic. I know you will not believe me what i am saying, but it is like suddenly opening the door to head towards your potential. The amount of sleep is suddenly rubbish when your imaan is high. You can go through a whole day with 3-4 hours of sleep. This has nothing to do with having some drugs or something. Your potential as a human being is suddenly opened up. The times for you to be "rightfully" angry about something that everybody gets angry, you see it as child-play.

As i believe in my previous comment(s) have said that i love to analyze things this includes my own behavior and what is going on. For example even trying to notice when breaking my fast what is happening to my body. Or even drinking water according to how Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was drinking water.

This bowing down to your Lord, has nothing to do with "feeling" even. Have you ever done everything within your power to achieve something, but you just failed or realized and you say with your mouth and heart "i give up"? I do not care anymore..you realize you are not in control and you let all the strings go you try to control. With that also arrogance, pride, envy.."I DO NOT CARE ANYMORE!!"-mentality. I am not saying go live like a those Gothics-guys, but your whole act of to pretend yourself as a certain person. Your make-up, your designer clothing, attitude, etc.. just free-fall. This by society words is called "depression", however it is not "depression" rather the mechanism that is trying to revive your heart. When you realize this "depression" people will seek what is going on, because what they were doing before (fitting in society) resulted in to this depression. So people go and seek answers to questions they have postponed it. You no longer are interested in pleasing people because it brings you only depression. From society perspective you have hit rock-bottom from being up-high, while from Islam perspective you have gone up from the negative. The moment you go back to society-norms, you again from Islamic perspective will go below this neutral point, but will once again gonna feel the depression...until you embrace Islam or die in that state.

04 1 - I want to believe but I just can't

04 1 - I want to believe but I just can't

In this chart to just take the example of it. We look at it from left to right. Below the 0 is negative for society, while above 0 is positive for society. Well take this chart and flip it vertically then horizontally. Read the chart now from right to left (arabic) below indeed negative and above 0 positive (see the url)

https://app.box.com/s/w5s5lemzl4sbu07sxcqray53baw6agdm

The "loser" from current society-perspective, is rather a winner from Islamic point of view. The loser from Islamic point of view is rather a winner in society-perspective. However people do not realize this, because they ONLY see society-perspective.

The hardest thing i have come to realize for human beings to ignore what other people think of them. They take the opinion of others so highly. You not following fashion like the mass, is being a loser, while you do not care about fashion, you not going night-out (not living

), you not drinking alcohol and having a girl-friend/boy-friend (being a loser). When you have stopped all those society-nonsense you suddenly also see what is wrong with society. With that also going in the negative according to society, while from Islamic point of view heading towards the truth. That is why i said abstain from the nonsense society is presenting you.

That is why i also see individualism rather as a blessing. This individualism shows you are own your own, nobody is FORCING you to join them in their idiotic actions that we see in the Middle-East. If you are with those guys they FORCE you to join them in their haram activities, because people need one another. While living in the west, i do not need anybody. The ONLY moment i need somebody is maybe when moving to another place..but even that is not needed as you can pay a company to help you with. You are at your own home, doing your own stuff. Having a Islamic way of life nobody bothering you with rubbish.

**Kazu** · 07-15-2017

Originally Posted by *charisma*

Something about faith is, you either have it or you don't. Those who don't have it won't believe no matter how much they want to; and those who have it cannot disbelieve no matter how difficult it is for them to comprehend the difficulties or confusions they go through. [...]Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills[...] (14:4)

The faith part, true. The Quran quote part, I don't believe in something I don't subscribe to in the first place.

Originally Posted by *charisma*

This is contradictory considering you considered yourself a Muslim at one time, and considering that there are people who do stray from the religion.

With all due respect, people who stray from the religion, they don't fully submitted themselves to Allah at the moment, don't they. Basing on my experience, I didn't 'disagree' with Allah when I was doing sins but rather I decided not to 'think about anything' when I was doing it to eliminate the guilt in my chest, and just having fun doing sins without thinking clearly. I meant, you are not supposed to doubt Allah, because using your own intellect is less favorable when it comes to islamic rulings, the intellect of human is only used to confirm the islamic teachings, for making fatwas, other things/practices unstated in islamic sources, and what not.

Originally Posted by *charisma*

However, to say that people believe in God or religion simply because it is "comforting" is not true. As you know, people can live very comfortable lives without religion.

Rather, what I meant about "comforting" was the idea of living eternally in heaven after death, for the righteous at least. I completely do find the appeal. I very much want heaven to exist. However how much life is throwing so much difficulty, suffering and pain to me, the 'comfort' I meant in the religion is that this is all temporary and is just tests after tests to test my imaan. If I successfully went through it then the next life will be eternally all garden and pleasures, a world without pain. Who wouldn't find comfort in this? To know that my memories will be forever preserved, to live eternally with my loved ones, yes, who wouldn't?

All of us be it believer or unbeliever go through a lot of hardships but we also do have a very comfortable stable life, at least most of us do. In islam, like you said, everything is a test. A secure life is a test, wealth is a test, good grades is a test, good children is a test, everything is. It's not fair to say only the bad things are the tests. And for us non-believers, things are just the way it is , we just work to achieve our goals while minimizing conflicts as much as possible and that's it. There are so many ways to look at this. And also the comfort in this for those who doesn't believe he is 'good enough of a muslim', faith alone is sufficient as Allah said grab anyone from the hell whom has part of an atom weight of iman. Surely even you are unsure if you're going to hell or heaven, but finds solace that you've tried your best and leaving it to Allah.

Originally Posted by *charisma*

if you have faith, you will have it despite anything and everything you go through because you have an untouchable faith, not because of how you "feel" or what you were equipped with in life. In fact, if anything, people LEAVE their religion because they are seeking comfort

Couldn't agree more with the faith part. This is what I admire about religious people is that they have this 'faith', correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's more about having 'taqwa' . A friend of mine once explained this to me about taqwa. If a path full of sharp-pointed broken glasses is in front of you and you need to get to the other side, what will you do? You will go through that path very carefully and slowly trying to avoid scarring yourself at all even if it takes you so much time and effort. Now imagine having faith and taqwa while in the hindu religion, mann you COULD NOT convince them anything. Often times I would talk to some hindu acquaintances and they go "I have my strong hindu faith and you have yours, you could not convince me anything, for me my religion, for you your religion (while quoting quran), pls stay away from our affairs and in turn we will respect islam".

Some people do leave religion just because they don't want to believe in god, some people do leave because they found comfort outside of islam.. Lets be real here, the true comfort is knowing you HAVE A CHANCE to get into the paradise however much of a bad person you are as long as you have faith. You are right, I do find comfort leaving Islam because all of a sudden the baggage attached to me suddenly falls off and it felt good. But as a human being I can confirm that the ultimate comfort/satisfaction is living in a world without pain but only eternal pleasures and happiness. But I ask myself, does that make heaven immediately real? No, but then we have to look at other aspects.

Originally Posted by *charisma*

Because let's be honest here, it's much easier to say "this religion can't be true because it doesn't correlate with who I am/what my family believes/how I was born/my society/etc." than to say "this religion is true despite of who I am."

Originally Posted by Search

Also, you're right that as Muslims we'll be biased towards the faith and path we have chosen for ourselves. However, please do give thought to examining your own biases on what you think religion is/should be and why and what you believe what you do at the moment; because trust that self-reflection and introspection will specifically better move you towards the direction of truth if you're searching for truth and improve the condition of your heart than generally extrospection.

Right now, I don't know if god, heaven, or hell, exist or don't exist. I'm open to all sorts of possibilities. I would say, 'the truth is right here, right now, in front of me despite what all religions says but is invisible'. So I wouldn't know. "The truth is true despite what religions say" but muslims already equate islam with the 'truth' so I won't have a proper argument in a muslim forum where the principle here is "this islamic religion is true despite of who I am", because what if the same principle is applied in other religion? It will be biased.

I'm not saying because of this Islam will be inherently wrong, but rather solely for the sake of avoiding bias. And okay I'll be honest, it's much easier to say that, but in my case, I don't find this islamic religion to be true because I personally think some of its teachings are unfair and wrong to the very nature of humanity itself,and a just God wouldn't do something like that, just like you would find hinduism is wrong thus saying their god doesn't exist. I'm not saying ALL of its teachings are wrong, many of it are good and true but if something wrong exists in it, this belief couldn't be true. It's plain and simple logic, I couldn't get any more neutral than this.

I'd like to think this is all the 'basic' before anyone is considering to get deeper into a particular religion, or just discussing any matter relating to that religion at all. I appreciate all the replies, people here gave me the ideas and insights on the many possibilities of ways to look at this mainly from the islamic perspective but I think the only way I can accept them is ultimately going back to this religion, then only I can subscribe to its views.

Originally Posted by Search

Therefore, I do not think you should take them as examples of what you can or cannot think about religion.

I'm sorry , I shouldn't have take them as examples. Indeed we are unique as individuals as our journey are different and very little I know about them.

Originally Posted by Search

Moreover, I think you should pray as sincerely as you can the typical atheist/agnostic prayer, which goes something like, "O God, if there is a god, if you're there, guide me to your Guidance." Of course, you can change the prayer to suit your spiritual needs or feelings of whatever at the moment, but I think this prayer is a good prayer to pray for whoever is a doubter because it is leaving the responsibility of being given the guidance to the Guide.

Thank you for this suggestion. Believe it or not, I've been doing this for the past couple months. I don't actively disbelief in god so if there is a god, why not pray in general, maybe my prayer could be answered if he does exist.