Do you believe Jannah to really be an actual garden and Jahannam a fiery pit? Personally, I find them symbolic. The torture for disbelief and evil is absolute separation from God whereas the reward is eternal rest in His love.
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
if we are working in this world to be either punished or rewarded in the end, why would jannah and jahannam be symbolic. it seems odd. it seems odd that the punishment for our rebellion or the reward for our obedience is simply just all symbolic. what's the point of that? it reminds me of a mirage. i dont know the actual answer to your question, but thats just my thoughts/2 cents.
if im wrong, then inshallah someone can come along and correct me.
Last edited by Ummu Sufyaan; 01-15-2011 at 09:05 AM.
...desperate for husnul-khitaam...
please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
Dear Brother,
Hell and paradise is described in all Holy Books and these are not simply metaphors.If the universe is studied carefully, it will be seen that within it are two elements that have spread everywhere and become rooted; with their traces and fruits like good and evil, beauty and ugliness, benefit and harm, perfection and defect, light and darkness, guidance and misguidance, light and fire, belief and unbelief, obedience and rebellion, and fear and love, opposites clash with one another in the universe. They are constantly manifested through change and transformation. Their wheels turn like the workshop of the crops of some other world.
Of a certainty, the branches and results, which are opposites, of those two elements will continue into eternity; they will become concentrated and separate from one another. Then they will be manifested in the form of Paradise and Hell. Since it is out of this transient world that the permanent world will be made, its fundamental elements will certainly go to eternity and permanence.
Indeed, Paradise and Hell are the two fruits of the branch of the tree of creation, which stretches, inclines, and goes towards eternity; they are the two results of the chain of the universe; the two storehouses of this flood of Divine activity; the two pools of beings, which flow in waves towards eternity; and the place of manifestation, the one of Divine favour, the other of Divine wrath. When the hand of power shakes up the universe with a violent motion, those two pools will fill up with the appropriate matters.
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Do you believe Jannah to really be an actual garden and Jahannam a fiery pit? Personally, I find them symbolic. The torture for disbelief and evil is absolute separation from God whereas the reward is eternal rest in His love.
Jahannam corresponds to Hebrew "Gei Hinnom" meaning "Valley of Hinnom" where there was located a burning rubbish dump outside the walls of Jerusalem. To me this does suggest a symbol of destruction. But I believe that Islam teaches that Jahannam is an everlasting burning Hell of literal torment.
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Do you believe Jannah to really be an actual garden and Jahannam a fiery pit? Personally, I find them symbolic. The torture for disbelief and evil is absolute separation from God whereas the reward is eternal rest in His love.
Jews and Christians also believe if paradise is garden and hell is fiery pit. That's why when they find a beautiful place they call it "paradise on earth", and when they see huge fire that burns an area, they say "like in hell".
Do you believe Hell fire is a literal fire or is it a way to understand our spiritual state in the afterlife? I have recently been considering the idea that once we die and our physical senses and our brain is dead, we then see that the physical desires of the body were meaningless unless they were used to serve the will of Allah SWT. In the afterlife, our physical senses may be dead, but our spiritual senses are very much alive and become aware of our disobedience and obedience, in this sense its our spiritual senses/awareness that suffers the most excruciating dispair over the state of life we lived in our physical body.
I believe Allah says in the Quran, “And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger, then surely,for him is the fire of Hell, he shall dwell therein forever (Quran 72:23), ” because while in our physical body, fire is the easiest way to understand total suffering, however when we are dead and we understand our lives from the test of Allah, SWT and see that is the ultimate meaning in life, we then have total spiritual suffering if we rejected the will of Allah SWT.
In summary, I believe the Quran speaks of fire, because it is the best way to convey the seriousness of rejecting Allah SWT, but it is actually the Divine knowledge of failing to follow the ultimate purpose of life that causes our soul to suffer the equivalent of fire.
This idea seems most plausible to me, because in death we are composed of spirit not flesh, so what matters to us is what affects our spirit, and being a failure in the sight of Allah SWT is the greatest pain of all.
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
Understanding the Qur'an cannot be done by looking at one or two verses in isolation. Rather one has to look at all the evidences on an issue, and in addition, one must look at how these have been understood and explained by the people of knowledge and understanding of Islam. There is a great deal of evidence showing that Paradise and Hellfire are literal and moreover already in existence. If one were to claim that they are metaphorical, they would have a very difficult time reconciling this with all the other evidences proving otherwise.
Praise be to Allaah.
The scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah are agreed that Paradise and Hell are two created things that exist at present. None of them doubt that because of the volume of evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah which indicates that.
From the Qur’aan:
Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):
“[Paradise] prepared for Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:133]
“Race with one another in hastening towards forgiveness from your Lord (Allaah), and Paradise the width whereof is as the width of the heaven and the earth, prepared for those who believe in Allaah and His Messengers”[al-Hadeed 57:21]
“And indeed he (Muhammad) saw him [Jibreel (Gabriel)] at a second descent (i.e. another time).
Near Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (a lote tree of the utmost boundary over the seventh heaven beyond which none can pass).
Near it is the Paradise of Abode”[al-Najm 53:13-15]
Allaah says concerning Hell (interpretation of the meaning):
“prepared for the disbelievers”[al-Baqarah 2:24]
The word prepared indicates that they exist at present.
From the Sunnah:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw Sidrat al-Muntaha (a lote tree of the utmost boundary over the seventh heaven beyond which none can pass), by which he saw the Paradise of Abode, as it says in Saheeh al-Bukhaari (336) and Saheeh Muslim (237) who narrated the hadeeth of Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) which tells the story of the Isra’ (Prophet’s Night Journey). At the end of this hadeeth it says: “Jibraa’eel took me until we reached Sidrat al-Muntaha, which was covered with colours, I do not know what they are. Then I entered Paradise and saw that its domes were pearls and its soil was musk.”
In al-Bukhaari (1290) and Muslim (5111) it is narrated from the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them both) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When any one of you dies, he is shown his place morning and evening. If he is one of the people of Paradise, then he is one of the people of Paradise, and if he is one of the people of Hell, then he is one of the people of Hell, and he is told, ‘This is your abode until Allaah raises you on the Day of Resurrection.”
According to the lengthy hadeeth of al-Baraa’ ibn ‘Aazib, “A voice will call out from heaven, ‘My slave spoke the truth, so provide him with furnishings from Paradise and open for him a door to Paradise so that its fragrant breeze may reach him.’” This is a saheeh hadeeth which was classed as such by Ibn al-Qayyim in Tahdheeb al-Sunan (4/337) and by al-Albaani in Ahkaam al-Janaa’iz (59).
In Saheeh al-Bukhaari (993) and Saheeh Muslim (1512), it is narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The sun was eclipsed at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)… and he said: ‘I saw Paradise and I reached out for a bunch of its fruits. If I had managed to take it you would have eaten from it for as long as the earth remains. And I saw Hell, and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it…”
In Saheeh Muslim (646) it is narrated from the hadeeth of Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “By the One is Whose hand is my soul, if you had seen what I have seen, you would laugh little and weep much.” They said, “What have you seen, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said, “I have seen Paradise and Hell.”
In Sunan al-Tirmidhi (2483) and elsewhere it is narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When Allaah created Paradise and Hell, he sent Jibreel to Paradise and said, ‘Look at it and at what I have prepared for its people therein.’ So he went and looked at it and at what Allaah had prepared for its people therein. Then he went back to Him and said, ‘By Your Glory, no one will hear of it but he will enter it.’ Then He commanded that it should be surrounded with difficult things. Then He said, ‘Go back and look at what I have prepared for its people therein.’ He went back and saw that it was surrounded with difficult things. He came back and said, ‘By Your Glory, I am afraid that no one will enter it.’ Allaah said, ‘Go and look at Hell and see what I have prepared for its people therein.’ [He saw it] with parts of it consuming other parts. He came back and said, ‘By Your Glory, no one who hears of it will enter it.’ So Allaah commanded that it should be surrounded with desires. Then he said, ‘Go back to it.’ So he went back, then he said, ‘By Your Glory, I am afraid that no one will be saved from it and that all will enter it.’” Al-Tirmidhi said: this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. Al-Haafiz said in al-Fath (6/320): its isnaad is qawiy (strong).
And there are very many ahaadeeth on this topic. In his Saheeh, al-Bukhaari wrote a chapter entitled Baab ma jaa’a fi Sifat al-Jannah wa annaha makhlooqah (Chapter on what was narrated concerning the description of Paradise and the fact that it has already been created), in which he listed ahaadeeth, such as the one quoted above, which say that Allaah shows the dead person his place in Paradise or Hell after he has been placed in his grave.
All that remains for a person to do is to strive his utmost in worshipping his Lord and refraining from disobeying Him, in the hope that He may attain the victory of being admitted to Paradise and being saved from the painful torment. And Allaah knows best.
See Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Tahhaawiyyah by Imam Ibn Abi’l-‘Izz al-Hanafi, 1/475; al-Jannah wa’l-Naar by Shaykh ‘Umar al-Ashqar, 13-18. [Translator’s note: the latter book is available in English under the title Paradise and Hell].
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
[S][/S]
format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad
In Saheeh Muslim (646) it is narrated from the hadeeth of Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “By the One is Whose hand is my soul, if you had seen what I have seen, you would laugh little and weep much.” They said, “What have you seen, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said, “I have seen Paradise and Hell.”
When our Rasool saw it with his own eyes, there is no space left for doubt or any other metaphorical examples.
This idea seems most plausible to me, because in death we are composed of spirit not flesh, so what matters to us is what affects our spirit, and being a failure in the sight of Allah SWT is the greatest pain of all
Also it doesn't really matter what idea seems plausible to humans - the fact that it EXISTS and our Prophet saw it is enough. You have to believe they exist if you are a Muslim.
Also it doesn't really matter what idea seems plausible to humans - the fact that it EXISTS and our Prophet saw it is enough. You have to believe they exist if you are a Muslim.
I never said Paradise and Hell do not exist. I believe they do exist, however I believe the fire and garden description is a way to emotionally understand these states of existences.
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
format_quote Originally Posted by Hiroshi
Jahannam corresponds to Hebrew "Gei Hinnom" meaning "Valley of Hinnom" where there was located a burning rubbish dump outside the walls of Jerusalem. To me this does suggest a symbol of destruction. But I believe that Islam teaches that Jahannam is an everlasting burning Hell of literal torment.
Where did you get that from?
By the way Jouhanam is just one place under the catch all term of hell ..
There's Jahannam, Lazaa, al-Sa eer,. Saqar, al-Hatamah and even a cold hell called Zamhrir...
so yeah a very real place.. may Allah swt save us.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
format_quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultor
Do you believe Jannah to really be an actual garden and Jahannam a fiery pit? Personally, I find them symbolic. The torture for disbelief and evil is absolute separation from God whereas the reward is eternal rest in His love.
That would make no sense.
A man killed 100 people he is punished with "absolute seperation from God"
A man killed 1000 people he is also punished with "absolute seperation from God"
A man comes along like Hitler who kills Millions, and according to this logic he would still be punished with "absolute seperation from God" ??
No, rather we believe that yes each of them will be punished with "absolute seperation from God" but their punishment in the Jahanam will vary accoridng
to their evil.
The reverse is also true.
A person only goes to the Mosque a few times during the year during the Holy Days (i.e. Eids) and another is spending every other day worshiping God, how can it be
that they are awarded the same ?
Re: The garden and the fire: literal or metaphorical?
I should have explained myself better when I posted this thread. I should have said that that would be the ultimate punishment, not any pain that might be felt. Separated from God's love, no hope for redemption or forgiveness, and knowing in full what your life and afterlife could have been like had you stayed on the right path.
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saw it with his own eyes, there is no space left for doubt or any other metaphorical examples.
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