Can someone please explain to me that on verse 16:68,69. The worker bee is refered to a female bee, can someone please explain to me how? someone has told me that kulli and fasluki is a femanine gender, can someone please explain to me how? is there any book on this type of grammer.
I have jut verified with a few other people, certainly Butuniha, is plural feminine!
In what way is it plural feminine?
Grammatically speaking, plural feminine bellies say nothing about the gender of the bees.
If you meant its feminine in a way it belongs to a female, that's a totally different thing, already explained in this thread.
My conclusion is that the verse does not specify the bees are feminine.
Last edited by Whatsthepoint; 08-24-2008 at 01:58 PM.
it is feminine plural, just like addressing the naml (ants) was masculine plural.. will this topic ever end? why not just agree to disagree.. people can certainly have different opinions without killing each other over it for days?!!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
But if you are referring to this debate on the madinaharabic forum, the guy is agreeing with my position, not yours. http://www.madinaharabic.com/forum/s...=8643#post8643
I'm enjoying this, but if you like, we could agree to disagree, like Skye suggested.
But if you are referring to this debate on the madinaharabic forum, the guy is agreeing with my position, not yours. http://www.madinaharabic.com/forum/s...=8643#post8643
I'm enjoying this, but if you like, we could agree to disagree, like Skye suggested.
The person said
"yes butuniha is used because the word Nahl itself is plural and feminine.
put it simply:
butunihum = their (masculine) bellies
butunihunna = their (feminine) bellies
butunihee = his (sing. masculine) or its (sing. masculine) bellies
butuniha = her (sing. feminine) or its (sing. feminine) or their (plural feminine) bellies"
So no he is not agreeing to your position. He said Nahl itself is plural and feminie, butuniha is femine plural!
"yes butuniha is used because the word Nahl itself is plural and feminine.
put it simply:
butunihum = their (masculine) bellies
butunihunna = their (feminine) bellies
butunihee = his (sing. masculine) or its (sing. masculine) bellies
butuniha = her (sing. feminine) or its (sing. feminine) or their (plural feminine) bellies"
So no he is not agreeing to your position. He said Nahl itself is plural and feminie, butuniha is femine plural!
The genders after their, his and it are referring to the pronouns, not the bellies!
And by plural and feminine, He means plural in itself, and feminine in conjugatiuon
The genders after their, his and it are referring to the pronouns, not the bellies!
And by plural and feminine, He means plural in itself, and feminine in conjugatiuon
Remember what you quoted from Mariful Quran:
"Since the word al-an3am is plural in the feminine gender, it required that the word used for it should have been: (butuni-ha), as it appears in Siirah Al-Mu'minin: (We provide you, out of what there is in their bellies - 23:21)."
Therefore Al-Nahl is femanine because butuniha is used!
"yes butuniha is used because the word Nahl itself is plural and feminine.
put it simply:
butunihum = their (masculine) bellies
butunihunna = their (feminine) bellies
butunihee = his (sing. masculine) or its (sing. masculine) bellies
butuniha = her (sing. feminine) or its (sing. feminine) or their (plural feminine) bellies"
So no he is not agreeing to your position. He said Nahl itself is plural and feminie, butuniha is femine plural!
The two in red have a small grammatical error, by small I mean its written with english alphabet using a vowel which does not sound similar to the arabic.
butunihim
butunihinna
"Since the word al-an3am is plural in the feminine gender, it required that the word used for it should have been: (butuni-ha), as it appears in Siirah Al-Mu'minin: (We provide you, out of what there is in their bellies - 23:21)."
Therefore Al-Nahl is femanine because butuniha is used!
"Plural in the femine gender" means plural in meaning, feminine in conjugation. And the debate in maarif is about the suffix posesive pronoun's (ha), not butuni (bellies).
"Plural in the femine gender" means plural in meaning, feminine in conjugation. And the debate in maarif is about the suffix posesive pronoun's (ha), not butuni (bellies).
You can see in medina university book 1 lesson 13, the plural of Ha (her) is Hunna (their),
To say "And they are my sister" you would say "Ya 'Hunna' Akhya tee"!
To say in arabic refering to a group females "'They' are my class mates and this is their house", is 'Hunna' rzamelatenn yaa hazaa baihunna!
Plural of Hu (His) is Hum (their), example in arabic, abu 'hum' ta khirun sha hib, means "'Their' father is a famous merchant"
as you can see Their in the context of the bees is clealy femanine, refering to the femanine bees, who eat from the fruits as well as those that build the houses! AlahamDullilah! Also read the beginning of the thread, 7 down, another miracle!
Also ma'riful Quran cleary says that butuniha is used with femanine! You have quoted this your self:
"Since the word al-an3am is plural in the feminine gender, it required that the word used for it should have been: (butuni-ha), as it appears in Siirah Al-Mu'minin: (We provide you, out of what there is in their bellies - 23:21)."
I think this should end the debate! Bees are femanine! Alahamdullilah!
Do not follow "madina arabic" course books blindly either, I've had a good look at them. I have my own copy at home in which I made note of hundreds of mistakes in their books.
العربية بين يديك and Madina books are no good when it comes to Quranic Arabic, as they are full of mistakes. I would suggest you speak to a Qualified Arabic teacher (University lecturer ideally) to get advice on a suitable book for you to learn Arabic.
العربية بين يديك and Madina books are no good when it comes to Quranic Arabic, as they are full of mistakes. I would suggest you speak to a Qualified Arabic teacher (University lecturer ideally) to get advice on a suitable book for you to learn Arabic.
I do not think that anymore because now I believe that it is a deliberate attempt to change the meanings to bring the Quraan in line with various tafaasir and ahaadis books.
Since there are far too many people who know the words of Quraan by heart, making it impossible to change it according to their needs they have slowly but sureley been changing its meanings. and they will continue doing so until it stops being what it was 1400 hundred years ago.
I do not believe that anymore because I think that it is a deliberate attempt to change the meanings to bring the Quraan in line with various tafaasir and ahaadis books.
Since there are far too many people who know the words of Quraan by heart, making it impossible to change it according to their needs they have slowly but sureley been changing its meanings. and they will continue doing so until it stops being what it was 1400 hundred years ago.
That is probably why they have filled them with so many mistakes. We tend to stick to the older grammar books when teaching the arabic language for the simple reason that the new ones are full of mistakes, whether the mistakes are deliberate or not is another matter.
The way you can look at this sans the grammar is that it is correct on multiple levels
1-grammatically
2-biologically and physiologically
3-it doesn't matter how you divide it, grammar alone or function alone, for the first part singular last part plural will still cover the two stomachs that each individual bee has..
contrast it with the Naml story and how they are addressed...
can an illiterate prophet or even literate prophet address each verse with that much integrity and have it flow on all levels, syle, context, meaning, rhyme, all while carrying other affairs like the political/economic/social state of an ummah...
it is exactly as Dr Gary Miller said, you simply have to put the Quran to scrutiny on multiple levels, and on multiple levels it will not simply exonerate itself, but also prove itself extraordinary!
The Quran in and of itself serves as one of the best books to teach proper Arabic grammar ...
btw is Sr. Faye still with us?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
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