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Mikayeel
04-12-2008, 04:43 PM
IF U GET SCARED QUICKLY DON'T WATCH THIS!

Bismillah

:sl:

I always wondered how people with the lack of understanding(or believing should i rather say) anything spiritual would react to this.

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Ok this is a video about an islamic exorcism, please take the time watchin it as it well worth it. Please don't say things as its 'fake', because I have witnessed one done to my own aunty, and in that state she said/done things that are very very very anti islamic! While she is mashAllah a very practising women.
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Trumble
04-12-2008, 06:04 PM
I'd just like to point out that being atheist/agnostic does not necessarily involve a "lack of understanding anything spiritual" !

I certainly don't believe it's 'fake' in that the guy concerned is somehow acting in some way. Exorcisms of some sort, often very similar to this, are found in most religions in some form or other, so there must be something in it. Whether that is purely psychological or really involves spirit beings of some kind I don't know.
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ranma1/2
04-12-2008, 06:16 PM
well said trumble,
however without more info on this case i cant really make a conclusion, however based on other cases of "exorcisem" i would say it could be several things.
play acting (similar to hypnotism), throwing a fit and thats what they are expected to do, insantiy, ect...
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ranma1/2
04-12-2008, 06:20 PM
ok watched the video, didnt see anything special. Just some guy either acting (most likely acting how he thinks he should, why take responciblity for your past when you can blame it on a devil)
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Mikayeel
04-12-2008, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by ranma1/2
ok watched the video, didnt see anything special. Just some guy either acting (most likely acting how he thinks he should, why take responciblity for your past when you can blame it on a devil)
Ay man, this guy is not actin i can assure u that. After I have eyewitnessed it to my own family member!

Look at the way he moves! Very strange indeed....
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FatimaAsSideqah
04-12-2008, 07:30 PM
Did Adraeeth female jinn exits?

very strange! but bit scary.
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barney
04-13-2008, 01:04 AM
I'd explain it that the chap in question needs some urgent treatment in a mental hospital and some antipsychotics down his neck, not being stuck up on you-tube with religious people trying to exorcise his "demons"
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Mikayeel
04-13-2008, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
Did Adraeeth female jinn exits?

very strange! but bit scary.
:sl:

Yep she was a real jihn, that was not the first time I have heard something like that!
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Huma*
04-13-2008, 03:13 PM
:sl:

+o( oh I am really scared after watching.. :scared:
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Amadeus85
04-13-2008, 03:19 PM
You can also check what hapenned to Anneliese Michel.
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Mikayeel
04-13-2008, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
You can also check what hapenned to Anneliese Michel.
Yep i have looked into her story thanks, a bizzare one to:exhausted
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Amadeus85
04-13-2008, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Yep i have looked into her story thanks, a bizzare one to:exhausted
Yes those are things that atheists/agnostics cant answer. those are things showing that life is continuing battle between good and evil.
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barney
04-13-2008, 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Yes those are things that atheists/agnostics cant answer. those are things showing that life is continuing battle between good and evil.
I did a quick wiki and googles on Anneliese Michel. Theres no note of any unexplained phenomena. Today that would be a open and shut case of Epilepsy and schizophrenia going untreated.

i'm not against the idea of posession, but I think to have a clear cut case you need stuff like green skin and yellow eyes and hovering off the ground....
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there there
04-14-2008, 12:46 AM
A group of 29 Christians in Russia, until like a fortnight ago, truly believed doomsday was near and acted accordingly-hid in a cave. (To be fair there was four children with them, so maybe it's wrong to imply all of them believed that the world will end soon, but I think it's a fair to assume at least a substantial did).

I use that to illustrate this: With near constant reaffirmation to yourself, you can make yourself believe practically anything (within reason of course). This isn’t too dissimilar to the placebo effect.

Cocaine users sometimes truly believe they see bugs crawling under their skin. I know, I know-they are on drugs-hardly reliable! However it does show how bewilderingly misleading and strange (at least it seems that way to us) the human brain can be. It’s easy to resort to outlandish claims of the super-natural when science can’t explicitly explain something. Science can’t literally “show” love, but that’s real isn’t it?

I’m not too familiar with theology so I don’t know whether this next question will seem silly-but how come the devil never possesses people who don’t have religious conviction?
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barney
04-14-2008, 01:24 AM
DRAT!
i was watching that christian group, i really really wanted to follow what they had been up to!

Have you any links, I couldnt find any last time i searched.


Edit. Found some stuff!
Father Pyotr the leader who was in a psychiatric hospital had a divine vision saying they could all come out.
They handed over their klacks and got taken away in a bus.
Two died in there, cancer and something else unknown.
Pytor had been in the prophet buissness for quite a while. He attempted suicide after the doomsday passed by putting his head on a plank and hitting it with another plank.

I think his particular religion looks pretty darned shakey at the moment.
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barney
04-14-2008, 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by there there
. It’s easy to resort to outlandish claims of the super-natural when science can’t explicitly explain something. Science can’t literally “show” love, but that’s real isn’t it?

I’m not too familiar with theology so I don’t know whether this next question will seem silly-but how come the devil never possesses people who don’t have religious conviction?

There was a guy on TV a few years back saying that Spiders the size of Sofas had been sent by Allah to defend Kandahar. He said they had been seen by many people and filmed for TV.

Regardless Kandahar fell in hours and no spiders were found. This guy was totally dedicated to the idea though.
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there there
04-14-2008, 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by barney
DRAT!
i was watching that christian group, i really really wanted to follow what they had been up to!

Have you any links, I couldnt find any last time i searched.
Just google phrases in the vein of "Russian cult" "Doomsday cult in cave" "Suicide with log" etc and you'll find articles.
I followed the story with actual newspapers so I don't have links, sorry. :[
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ranma1/2
04-14-2008, 03:48 AM
im glad that for the most part in most modern society they try to get the proper care that people need rather than drilling holes in heads or exorcism.

Id like to see these possesions occur with a scientists.
Come on Posses Dawkins, i dare any demon, spirit, jinn ect... to do that.
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barney
04-14-2008, 04:17 AM
Proff Hitchins is possessed by Jack Daniels finest malt sippin' whisky and Rothmans kingsize!
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------
05-22-2008, 07:20 PM
:salamext:

Allahumma inni audhu bika minal khubsi wa al khabaa isi
I seek refuge in Allaah from Male and Female Jinns
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medlink student
05-22-2008, 07:55 PM
i believe this is fake.
ASTGFRALLAH, we shouldn't fake stuff like this, to grab people's attension.(may Allah 4giv the makers of it) don't believe everything.
type 'jinn' in utube and look at the girl possessed (scaryyyyyyyyyyy!!!!)
she has white scarf on. lying on the floor.
back to this video, why would the jinn make som1 get married(as if it was a bad thing?)
marriage is half of the deen:D, and the jinn is supposed to make him do haram stuff...
i hope u get what i mean :D
:w:
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------
05-22-2008, 07:57 PM
:salamext:

^ That isn't a fake.
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medlink student
05-22-2008, 07:58 PM
oh yes it iss!! :D^
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------
05-22-2008, 07:59 PM
:salamext:

Do you consider yourself Muslim?
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------
05-22-2008, 08:00 PM
:salamext:

Have some shame. It is real, it happens. If you don't want to believe it, it's up to you. I've seen this happen. It's REAL for MUSLIMS. Khalaas.
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Mikayeel
05-22-2008, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by o.elmais
oh yes it iss!! :D^
Wsalam dear sister :) hmm i have seen one of dem performed in real life(to a family member), trust me dere is nothin fake about it! Some r obsvly fake, dey make dem 2 fool people! Astagfirulah,
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root
05-22-2008, 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by - Serene -
:salamext:

Have some shame. It is real, it happens. If you don't want to believe it, it's up to you. I've seen this happen. It's REAL for MUSLIMS. Khalaas.
I also seen Penn & Teller shoot each other in the face and catch the bullet with thier teeth. Since I can't figure out how they did it I must conclude it is real, it happens and if you don't want to believe it, it's up to you. I've seen this happen. It's real :?
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barney
05-22-2008, 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by root
I also seen Penn & Teller shoot each other in the face and catch the bullet with thier teeth. Since I can't figure out how they did it I must conclude it is real, it happens and if you don't want to believe it, it's up to you. I've seen this happen. It's real :?
Wow! A Bullet in their teeth!
Even a .22 longrifle, tiny paper punching slug generates 2200Kilojoules delivered over the teeth area, that equals over forty tons of resistance created by Tellers Jaws!! OMOMGMOMGO!

Since this is impossible under natural laws. Teller must be harnessing Gods power. In which case he is a new prophet.
Or he must be harnessing Satans Powers, in which case he must be killed immediatly.

I'm flippin a coin.
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------
05-22-2008, 08:53 PM
:salamext:

^ Please stay on topic.
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medlink student
05-23-2008, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by - Serene -
:salamext:

Have some shame. It is real, it happens. If you don't want to believe it, it's up to you. I've seen this happen. It's REAL for MUSLIMS. Khalaas.
ok ok ok... i believe it , happy?
:D:w:
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Nerd
05-23-2008, 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by Humaira*
:sl:

+o( oh I am really scared after watching.. :scared:
Aren't Muslim's not supposed to scared of or fear anything but Allah? :?
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Mikayeel
05-23-2008, 05:20 AM
Originally Posted by Nerd
Aren't Muslim's not supposed to scared of or fear anything but Allah? :?
Oeeh that question is under the belt, and you know it!

So you are saying if i get chased by 2 hungry lions, that i won't be scared..... pfffff
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Nerd
05-23-2008, 05:27 AM
Originally Posted by raOnar
Oeeh that question is under the belt, and you know it!

So you are saying if i get chased by 2 hungry lions, that i won't be scared..... pfffff
Well as a Muslim aren't you supposed not to be scared? or am I misinterpreting this verse. If so I apologize. :)

"And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone" (002.041)
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Mikayeel
05-23-2008, 05:32 AM
Originally Posted by Nerd
Well as a Muslim aren't you supposed not to be scared?

"And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone" (002.041)


From among the stations of worshipping Allah and seeking His help is the station of fear.

Fear is one of the most important stations on the path and most beneficial for the heart. Fear is an obligation upon everyone, Allah said, "So fear them not, and fear Me alone, if you are believers." [3:175] (The actual word used for fear in this verse is 'khawf.') Another verse says, "And Me alone you all should fear," [2:40] the actual word being a derivative of 'rahba.' And, "So do not fear people, but fear Me," [5:44] the actual word in Arabic being 'khashya.' Different connotations of these various terms in Arabic for fear will be discussed shortly.

Allah has praised those who possess the attribute of fear saying, "And such (are the believers) who are humbled by the fear of their Lord..." [23:57]

Fear (of Allah's displeasure or punishment) is not only for grave sinners, but also for the pious, observant believers, as in the following hadeeth: Aisha said, "O Messenger of Allah, is the verse "And those who dispense their charity while their hearts fear that to their Lord they must return" [23:60] referring to someone who commits fornication, drinks alcohol and steals and still fear Allah? The Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, said, "No, O daughter of as-Siddiq, but it refers to one who fasts, perform salah and gives charity, and fears that it may not be accepted from him." (Tirmithi) Al-Hasan, commenting on this, said, "By Allah, they (the Companions) obeyed Him and strove hard in it, yet they feared it might be rejected. A believer combines righteousness with fear in his heart, while a hypocrite combines evil with impunity."

The terms 'wajal,' 'khawf,' 'khashya' and 'rahba,' are used in the Qur'an to refer to what we have translated as ‘fear', but they are not synonyms. Abul-Qasim al-Junayd said, "Al-khawf is the anticipation of punishment." Another scholar said, "Al-khawf is the moving of the heart upon the cognizance of that which is feared."

The word khashya is more specific than khawf, for it is specific to the true knowers of Allah - as Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, said, "Truly, those who fear Allah from among His servants are the knowers." [35:28] Hence, khashya. is fear associated with the intimate knowledge (ma'rifa) of Allah-as the Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, said, "I am most mindful of Allah among you, and most intense in fearing Him." (Bukhari, Muslim) Khawf is movement in its essence, while khashya is concentration, stillness, and holding of breath. For example, someone who sees a fierce enemy or a flood or something like that has two states: first, movement in order to flee from it, and this is the state of khawf. Second, his stillness in a place safe from the danger-and this is khashya.

Ar-Rahba means the urge to run away from the danger-which is the opposite of ar-Raghba, which means the urge of the heart to journey towards that which it likes.

Al-Wajal is the trembling of the heart upon the cognition or remembrance of someone whose power or punishment one fears.

Al-Haybah is fear associated with awe and glorification, and its greatest form is that which occurs in association with love and intimate knowledge (ma'rifa).

Al-Khawf, then, is for the common believers, while al-kbashya is for the scholars with profound knowledge, while at-haybah is for those nearest to Allah. The extent of one's fear for Allah is proportional to one's knowledge, both formal and experiential, of Allah. As the Prophet, sallallahu alaybe wa sallam, said, "I am the most knowledgeable of Allah among you, and most intense in His khashya." In another narration of the same hadeeth, the word used is khawf instead of khashya. The Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, also said, "if you knew what I know, you would laugh little and weep much, and would not enjoy intimacy with women, and would go out wandering in the wildernesses and praying to Allah." (Ahmad)

When faced with his object of fear, a man with khawf turns to fleeing and grabbing, while a man with khashya seeks the support of knowledge. For example, when a lay person is faced with an illness, he seeks to protect himself (and seeks someone who could help) while a skilled physician turns to investigating the illness and the cure.

Abu Hafs says, "Al-khawf is Allah's lash with which He straightens up those fleeing from His door." He also said, "Al-khawf is a lamp in the heart, with which the good and the evil inside of the heart can be seen-and everyone you fear from, you run away from him, except Allah-when you fear Him, you run towards Him for refuge."

Hence, the one who fears Allah is a refugee towards His Lord's [mercy] from his Lord's [displeasure].

Abu Suleiman said, "Whenever fear (of Allah) departs a heart, it is ruined." Ibraheem ibn Sufyan said, "When fear of Allah resides in hearts, it burns away the sources of lust and eradicates worldly attachments." Thun-Noon said, "People will stay on the path so long as they have (Allah's) fear when this fear leaves them, they will go astray."

Fear, however, is not the end in itself, but a means towards an end. When that end, Allah's ultimate pleasure, is attained, there is no need for fear. As Allah says to the people of Paradise: "there is no fear upon them, nor do they grieve."

Fear is associated with actions, while love is connected with being and attributes. When the believers enter the Realm of Allah's eternal blessings, their love will multiply, while their fear will disappear. Hence, the place of love is higher and nobler than the place of fear.

The true and praiseworthy fear is that which stops a person from the prohibitions of Allah. But when fear exceeds this boundary, it may bring hopelessness and despair.

Abu Uthman said, "Sincerity of fear is vigilance from sins, open and secret." I also heard Shaykhul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah, may Allah honor his soul, say, "The praiseworthy fear is that which prevented you from the prohibitions of Allah."

The author of al-Manazil, Shaykh al-Harawi, said, "Al-khawf, or fear, is to do away with careless sense of security by envisioning the great news (of the Last Day)."

He further said, "The beginning of fear is the fear of punishment, and this kind of fear is sufficient to establish the soundness of one's faith. It is born out of one's affirmation of the warning (of Allah's punishment), recognition of one's transgressions and consideration of the punishment." Thus, fear is preceded by cognition and knowledge for a man cannot fear what he does not know.

Two more things are related to fear: the thing or occurrence that is feared, and the way that leads one to it. Lack of knowledge of either of these leads to a concomitant lack of fear. If one does not know that a certain act leads to a feared outcome or he knows so but does not know the value or might of that which he claims to fear, one does not really have true fear. Similarly, an active awareness of the punishment or loss that one fears, not just a passive and abstract knowledge of it, is an indication of the sincerity of fear and sound faith.

Another praiseworthy category of fear is to fear returning to the state of sinfulness and heedlessness after one has attained closeness to Allah and sincere fear of His displeasure-for if one feels unduly secure in one's state, it is likely that one will go back to the state of sinfulness.

Balancing Fear with Hope

The heart in its journey towards Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is like a bird whose head is love, and hope and fear are its two wings. When the head and the two wings are sound and healthy the flight of the bird is good, but when the head is cut off, it immediately dies, and when either or both wings are deficient, the bird cannot properly fly and may become victim of any hunter or snare. The righteous predecessors preferred to strengthen the wing of fear during good times when heedlessness is feared, and to strengthen the wing of hope at times of calamity and when near death.

Some have said that it is better to strengthen fear more than hope because when vain hopes overcome a person he is ruined. Others say that the best of situations is a complete balance of hope and fear with overwhelming love, for love is composite,while hope is a sharpener and fear a driver.
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Nerd
05-23-2008, 06:02 AM
  • Al-Khawf, then, is for the common believers,
  • al-kbashya is for the scholars with profound knowledge,
  • at-haybah is for those nearest to Allah.
  • The extent of one's fear for Allah is proportional to one's knowledge, both formal and experiential, of Allah.


Does that mean the fear we anticipate when we see are chased by a lion or experience a Jinn comes under Al-Khawf?


Abu Hafs says, "Al-khawf is Allah's lash with which He straightens up those fleeing from His door." He also said, "Al-khawf is a lamp in the heart, with which the good and the evil inside of the heart can be seen-and everyone you fear from, you run away from him, except Allah-when you fear Him, you run towards Him for refuge."
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ozdload
05-23-2008, 07:25 AM
Whats for others to explain . It should be your good self who is explaining what in the name of my sacred mother is going on in the video , it's definitely not normal behavior by any stretch of the imagination . So what are they are they trying to achieve and why would anyone video it and then publish it in an open forum.
:rollseyes
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------
05-23-2008, 10:27 AM
:salamext:

Warning: Stay on topic. Please.
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