dead babies go to heaven without baptism?

lol i heard stories of limbo being a hell for kids at the center of the earth.
 
:salamext:

^not a story, according to christianity, tis a fact.

Babies dead without baptism go to Limbo, where they do not enjoy God, but neither do they suffer, because, having Original Sin alone, they do not deserve Paradise, but neither do they merit Hell or Purgatory.
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Source

Quite silly if u ask me :ooh:
 
yeahh I dont really beleive that nonsense and Im a christian myself... I dont know where they came up with that, but even the pope I beleive has banned the talk about limbo within schools and cirriculums, dont think he likes the idea himself :P

I beleive, and maybe this perhaps maybe a personal beleif- that when babies die, whether baptized or unbaptized, they will be sent to heaven- Babies are born free of sin, they know no sin and are pure, to have someone as inoccent and vunerable as that go to ''limbo'' is down right nonsense.. :P

Imagine a priest having told a mother who has had a miscarriage or has lost her child after birth.. that 'your child has gone limbo' how would she feel?! its just creul in the scenario such as this, but yeahh, the harsh fact is that this so called limbo does exist in some denominations of christianity :P buut personaly I think its a load of rubbish :D
 
:salamext:

Islam#s stance on this is better :D Babies go straight heaven, no other nonsense
 
ddz said:
yeahh I dont really beleive that nonsense and Im a christian myself... I dont know where they came up with that, but even the pope I beleive has banned the talk about limbo within schools and cirriculums, dont think he likes the idea himself :P

I beleive, and maybe this perhaps maybe a personal beleif- that when babies die, whether baptized or unbaptized, they will be sent to heaven- Babies are born free of sin, they know no sin and are pure, to have someone as inoccent and vunerable as that go to ''limbo'' is down right nonsense.. :P

Imagine a priest having told a mother who has had a miscarriage or has lost her child after birth.. that 'your child has gone limbo' how would she feel?! its just creul in the scenario such as this, but yeahh, the harsh fact is that this so called limbo does exist in some denominations of christianity :P buut personaly I think its a load of rubbish :D
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can you reject a lot of fundamental christian beliefs and still be christian? just out of curiosity...?!
becoz there are christians that dont believe in trinity or jesus being son of God etc etc.. i wonder sometimes why they call themselves christian..
 
Is this also in Christianity? I was under the impression this was only so in catholicism...
 
IbnAbdulHakim said:
can you reject a lot of fundamental christian beliefs and still be christian? just out of curiosity...?!
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There are different denominations within Christianity.. I suppose on the basis of what you said, then perhaps you arent a christian by action - you said

'if you reject A LOT of FUNDAMENTAL beleifs'

Now, the 2 commandments Jesus left us, to sum up all the 10 commandments within the Torah, were 'Love your Neighbour as you Love yourself' and 'Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might and strength' I think this is an overall fundamental christian beleif. if one was to not beleive this then they are just christian by name.

Also, different denominations hold different fundamental beleifs - I think if you have your own opinion, its not a drastic doubt within your faith, nor does it make you less of a Catholic, Protestant etc..

My curiousity is the same with Islamic beleifs within people, can they call themselves muslims if they dont beleive in something the Koran says?

becoz there are christians that dont believe in trinity or jesus being son of God etc etc.. i wonder sometimes why they call themselves christian..
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As previously mentioned there are different denominations, and some indeed beleive Jesus was part of the trinity where as some do not. Christianity is like an umbrella I suppose.. lol or like a Tree, there are different branches with different beleif, but the fundamentals I think can be agreed upon by all these branches because they all beleive following the footsteps and actions of JEsus and submitting yourself to God Almighty are the Christian Way.

When Christians in a denomination reject the trinity, it could very well be within their fundamental beleifs as the denomination they are within. It doenst mean they are christian no more - for example, if I were to say I dont think JEsus is the Son of God, nor is he part of the trinity- there is no trinity... me being a christian.. you'd try to figure out what denomination I am a part of within christianity where what I say is beleived fundamentally by others. It does not make me a Jew or Muslim in rejecting Jesus as the Son of God, Trinity etc

I hope this has helped :)


I dont beleive Limbo is a fundamental beleif within christianity.. because there are different denominations within christianity, the key denomination who FIRST beleived there is limbo is the Roman Catholic. Eastern Christianity and Protestants reject limbo, Jehovahs Witnesses do not beleive in it either

heres something I got off wikipedia -
Pope Benedict XVI authorized publication of this document, which is not an official expression of the Church's teaching,[24] but only one of the opinions that the Catholic Church does not condemn, allowing them to be held by its members. Media reports that by the document "the Pope closed Limbo"[25] are thus without foundation. In fact, the document explicitly states that "the theory of limbo, understood as a state which includes the souls of infants who die subject to original sin and without baptism, and who, therefore, neither merit the beatific vision, nor yet are subjected to any punishment, because they are not guilty of any personal sin. This theory, elaborated by theologians beginning in the Middle Ages, never entered into the dogmatic definitions of the Magisterium, even if that same Magisterium did at times mention the theory in its ordinary teaching up until the Second Vatican Council. It remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis" (second preliminary paragraph); and in paragraph 41 it repeats that the theory of Limbo "remains a possible theological opinion".
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I dont beleive in Limbo also because the reason that kids or babies go there, is beleived to be because of 'original sin' which is Adam and Eve. WHY should a baby have to go to such a place on behalf of Adam and Eve going against God?! I find it harsh
 
Abdul Fattah said:
Is this also in Christianity? I was under the impression this was only so in catholicism...
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Yup, just in Catholicism.. but its a delicate matter, and isnt a cannon beleif within the denomination, its classed as a theological theory..
 
My curiousity is the same with Islamic beleifs within people, can they call themselves muslims if they dont beleive in something the Koran says?
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Do you mean, if you read something in the Qur'aan, and you disbelieve in it? Then no, this is apostasy.
 
Faizah said:
Do you mean, if you read something in the Qur'aan, and you disbelieve in it? Then no, this is apostasy.
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Just that, if you have a personal beleif rather than what the Koran says, does it make you less of a muslim?
 
ddz said:
Just that, if you have a personal beleif rather than what the Koran says, does it make you less of a muslim?
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It does a little bit more than that. It takes you outside the fold of Islaam. To deny even a single verse or command of Allaah is kufr (apostasy).
 
My curiousity is the same with Islamic beleifs within people, can they call themselves muslims if they dont beleive in something the Koran says?
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Declaring a person that believes that he is Muslim as non-Muslim is a very serious matter. There is actually a school of thought behind it. First of all, only scholars which fit certain criteria have the authority to make such claims. Secondly, there are only a few cases that give them ground to judge a person as non-muslim. For example a Muslim who drinks, is still a Muslim. A Muslim who sinned, but nevertheless still a Muslim. A Muslim who starts worshiping a false deity on the other hand, can by all logic no longer be called "Muslim".

When Christians in a denomination reject the trinity, it could very well be within their fundamental beleifs as the denomination they are within. It doenst mean they are christian no more - for example, if I were to say I dont think JEsus is the Son of God, nor is he part of the trinity- there is no trinity... me being a christian.. you'd try to figure out what denomination I am a part of within christianity where what I say is beleived fundamentally by others. It does not make me a Jew or Muslim in rejecting Jesus as the Son of God, Trinity etc
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Unitarians, Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses for one don't believe in trinity. There used to be a lot more Christian denominations who didn't believe in trinity, but most became extinct by the crusades after Constantine declared all other denominations (all that didn't agree with his vision of Christianity) as herracy in the council of Nicea

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/trinity.htm

I dont beleive in Limbo also because the reason that kids or babies go there, is beleived to be because of 'original sin' which is Adam and Eve. WHY should a baby have to go to such a place on behalf of Adam and Eve going against God?! I find it harsh
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Well it's interesting that you brought this up, because if one takes a step back, you can really see a chain of thoughts.
1. If babies don't go to limbo => there is no original sin
2. If there is no original sin => there is no need for a savior
3. If there is no need for a savior => there is no trinity

All these concepts are closely nit together, I grant that my chain is a bit of a slippery slope. But I think you'll see how from an Islamic perspective, we suspect that one wrong view is likely to be the direct result of another. If you reject all of these concepts that lie close to one another at once, one could argue that one is then closer to Islam or Judaism then one is close to Christianity.
 
1261 "As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. "
Source
 
Well it's interesting that you brought this up, because if one takes a step back, you can really see a chain of thoughts.
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Lets have a Lookie then :) lol

1. If babies don't go to limbo => there is no original sin

2. If there is no original sin => there is no need for a savior

3. If there is no need for a savior => there is no trinity
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Slightly True in the sense if you were to give both credibility AND reality to limbo, but its just a THEORY, and remains a Theological Hypothesis.. and who is to say that Limbo is a form of 'Hell' from what I know of it, apparantley its a place where people remain whom are unjudged for the time being because they are of no sin but Original Sin..
How can you eliminate original sin if it means a baby doesnt go to limbo? Original Sin still exists within us does it not? Isnt it because of Original Sin, that we humans continue on to Sin? Original Sin exists regardless, and your right in saying if there is no original sin there is no saviour, but if there was no original sin, there would be no sin meaning there would be no evil meaning there would be no need for prophets or as you have said - saviour or trinity for that matter
 
ddz said:
I dont beleive in Limbo also because the reason that kids or babies go there, is beleived to be because of 'original sin' which is Adam and Eve. WHY should a baby have to go to such a place on behalf of Adam and Eve going against God?! I find it harsh
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Then, what are you waiting for?
 

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