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Tariqa
12-28-2008, 12:39 AM
This thread is to shed some light on two subjects very quickly: Student loans and Western Subjects.

Student Loans

First and foremost the question resides in the loan...The loan that requires a usurious payment...
How important is getting an education?? Is it a necessity of life?? What would implicate a man to take out a loan that Allah hates so much so that he can gain something of an uncertified value...There is no telling after he gets his degree that he will get a job....Is taking a student loan for learning after a dictation to ever commit such a heinous crime?? The 3 necessities of life does not fall under education and in most cases a man will not die from a lower job..A degree is only to get something better...a step above a basic but Allah has commanded us to be content with the basics... For those that crave something beyond basics can do so in a halal manner.. Where does this practice come from that a Muslim would take out loans on riba as there are other options available for the Muslim to do to advance in life??



Western Subjects


This is a question as to whether or not it is permissible for Muslims to study courses that are clearly against islam... Social sciences and other sciences or subjects in particular that go against islam...
As far as we know it is allowed to learn these subjects, the ones who know.. Our children being raised up under this indoctrination can be misled... Even adults who are not firmly grounded in knowledge of the deen can be misled... Though a Muslim knows the truth, it is not recommended in the least for a Muslim to study any perverted thoughts of any people that are not proven to be factual.. This is still a dangerous matter...It was told to some group of men that though are grounded in knowledge they should not go close to any innovators and listen to their speech for fear of being misled and our societies are not only taken years of studies under these ideologies but they are implementing these ways..
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Malaikah
12-28-2008, 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by Tariqa
This is a question as to whether or not it is permissible for Muslims to study courses that are clearly against islam... Social sciences and other sciences or subjects in particular that go against islam...
:sl:

Who said these things are clearly against Islam?? You're very quick to label, brother!
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Cabdullahi
12-28-2008, 01:43 AM
We have seen a flood of fatawa threads by you brother :) mashallah
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Tariqa
12-28-2008, 01:56 AM
I did not indicate which subjects in particular were against Islam or not i was speaking in general.. If you would like to know which in particular i will clarify...

Studies in general knowledge that goes against Islamic knowledge such as theories by western thinkers... The Darwin theories and evolutionary theories to name a few.... These are clearly against Islam and whoever says they are not has disbelieved in what Allah has revealed.....
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wth1257
12-29-2008, 05:45 AM
Originally Posted by Tariqa
I did not indicate which subjects in particular were against Islam or not i was speaking in general.. If you would like to know which in particular i will clarify...

Studies in general knowledge that goes against Islamic knowledge such as theories by western thinkers... The Darwin theories and evolutionary theories to name a few.... These are clearly against Islam and whoever says they are not has disbelieved in what Allah has revealed.....

The Western thinkers of the enlightnment were influenced by the Islamic thinkers. If I can offer some constructive criticism, you seem to be very eager to declare who is and is not a Muslim, what is and what is not Islam, but you don’t provide many specifics to buttress your claims. Just something to consider.
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Tariqa
12-29-2008, 06:34 AM
so what ... just because the western thinkers wre influenced by muslim thinkers does not mean anything.. there are lots of muslims who claim to be muslims that innovate evils in this world.. And even if they muslims were inoovating good things, they are no responsible for what they western thinkers misinterpeted from them so it does not hold any wieght to say who was influncend by who... Disbelevers can be influenced by any one and still interept good nto evil ideas .. like a man can tak an apple and make wine, it makes no difference..
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Muezzin
12-30-2008, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Tariqa
so what ... just because the western thinkers wre influenced by muslim thinkers does not mean anything.. there are lots of muslims who claim to be muslims that innovate evils in this world.. And even if they muslims were inoovating good things, they are no responsible for what they western thinkers misinterpeted from them so it does not hold any wieght to say who was influncend by who... Disbelevers can be influenced by any one and still interept good nto evil ideas .. like a man can tak an apple and make wine, it makes no difference..
If you can turn good ideas into bad ideas, you can also turn bad ideas into good ones.

But anway, Philosophy is not a particularly useful degree unless you want to work in academia (if I've offended anyone with my ignorance, I do apologise, and do correct me).

So, it's a bit of a non-issue.
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Musaafirah
12-30-2008, 08:47 PM
Umm, here's a link to a site where they mention that taking out a student loan is permissible if it is necessary for the student and not merely as a knowledge enhnancer.
Student loans.
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AhlaamBella
12-30-2008, 08:50 PM
When in the comparative religion thread, an element of knowledge of other religions is required, right? The same principle applies to this. There is no harm in learning opposing belief systems, ideologies etc for the purpose of education.As long as one is aware of the truth and their deen is strong inshAllah, I see no problems with "Western Subjects"
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Tariqa
12-30-2008, 11:22 PM
Mister i think you are missing the point you see. Our religion is not an alternative religion to Judaism or polytheism.. Our religion is the original religion ... we Muslims are the originators and we are not the imitators.. How do you think you can take alcohol and make it a drink?? Once something is burned it cannot restore to its original state and that is what the firs is for..once the disbelievers are put in the fire Allah will make them reside forever and there is not turning it around. It is a shame the the Muslims are so weak minded that they have to look toward the disbelievers for their ideas and imitations.. Which of the Muslims are trying to emulate the sunnah?? Why is it that the Muslims seek to be so "westernized" and give alternatives.. this is clearly imitation.. Muslims do not have alternative to alcohol and call it Islamic alcohol.. Islamic alcohol is still haram....you cannot make it halal..subahannalllah

No we do not copy any group of people except our own.. We do not have Islamic music.. there is no such thing as Islamic Muslim except what the women do at weddings and maybe on eid...there is no such thing as Islamic acting because acting is a form of lying in majority if not all the cases..
in the same way you cannot take philosophy and make it a halal course.. why cant you think of your own Islamic ideas i don't know.. but since you seem that you cannot then is what you are doing allowed in Islam.. tell me in what way do you see Islamic philosophy permissible or Islamic??? It is indeed ashame how lost the Muslims have become and how deep the grip is of the western thinkers and such really is on the Muslims may Allah forgive this complete weakness and utter ignorance..


You are confusing that link taking student loans.. It is permissible to take out a loan if you really need... you have to ask your self do you really need.. then ask your self how many of the millions of Muslims really need a degree, then ask your self how many are lying , and are too weak to rough out our situations and weather the storms, and go through difficulty and leave what Allah hates for what Allah loves and pray for the help of Allah in all times??
Then ask yourself if your lying and you really do not need a loan how severely Allah will punish you on the day of judgment since Allah only knows your situation best.. Ask yourself that and i can make the answer easier for you.. That link is true but heres the secrete.. IN 99.9% of the cases there is no risq in getting a degree.. It is extremely rare that a Muslim would ever need a mortgage or a student loan EVEN THOUGH it is permissible to get one IN TIMES OF ABSOLUTE necessity and surely we are not living in a time such as that.. many Muslims are if not all of those using this excuse, are using this excuse to justify doing some of the most filthies crimes imaginable in islam... The use the laws of necessity when if not in all cases there is no real necessity, they was either just greedy, or very weak, too weak to live a life of poverty or too weak to struggle harder.. it is a shame Muslims see poverty as a necessity, they fear it so much they have resorted to the most ill of things to make money... a shame indeed..


Read the op i did not say it was haram to learn even polytheism but think about it.. What Allah tell you if you took a class in collage and it was a class teaching you how to use magic?? Would you still stay oh its only for my degree??? in these school many students have to do things that are haram in Islam like take acting classes and music classes then perform in them just for their prerequisites to pass the class and get a degree.. It is a shame indeed...

If it is haram to get a career in these haram subjects then obviously you are advised to the utmost not to even learn them as it is mustahabb to stay away from the overspreading filth of the western thinkers... If it is haram to practice and mustahab not to learn, then what do you call the assignments and projects the students must participate in when enrolled in these studies?? Do you say "its only for a degree" or its only necessary?? May Allah forgive the most abominable of abominable Muslims and disgusting practices they have adapted indeed.
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Argamemnon
12-31-2008, 03:15 AM
How can you debate and refute claims of darwinists etc. if you don't know ANYTHING on the issue? That doesn't make sense. Knowledge is always good, period. Case closed. Excuse me if Í'm being harsh here, but I will always stand against ignorance and false claims. Someone has to say the truth.
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Tariqa
12-31-2008, 04:37 AM
So you want to learn Darwinism hey??? Then pick up a book. your obviously speaking from irrationality.. You do not understand the western mentality and the western system of the education system.. it is for you to learn but they teach in their own way.. many schools require you in order to pass the class by doing haram things and this is no secrete...If you want to learn Darwinism then pick up a book, why is it that in order to learn the Muslims feel the need to do what the non believers do which is to do so under the systems of how the non Muslims do.. Why cant Muslims learn other ways?? Or is it because they only want what the kafirs have, big luxury cars that can play loud music and such...?? This is a shame that many Muslims feel there is no way besides the kafirs way and become very unreceptive when another Muslim criticizes this method.. Many Muslims hold the education system of the non Muslims so sacred that they would put of the even more sacred bond of marriage and pregnancy and even religious studies before they get a piece of paper called a degree.. Many Muslims feel that if another Muslim says he thinks the mere action of learning these false ideologies is macro or not recommended then he is considered "a back wards Muslim" or behind... subanallah may Allah forgive these weak Muslims who are too proud and arrogant to listen to ways of strength and may Allah cause these weak Muslims to love the religious knowledge and strive for what is most important over what they now see as "secular obligations" indeed inshallah..
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Muezzin
12-31-2008, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Tariqa
Mister i think you are missing the point you see. Our religion is not an alternative religion to Judaism or polytheism.. Our religion is the original religion ... we Muslims are the originators and we are not the imitators.. How do you think you can take alcohol and make it a drink??
You can't make alcohol a drink, but you can make it a part of a medicine.

Once something is burned it cannot restore to its original state and that is what the firs is for..once the disbelievers are put in the fire Allah will make them reside forever and there is not turning it around.
You're talking about ideas, not souls burning in hell.

And besides, if the way you think is that nothing is ever salvagable, then you will not progress.

Look at this site that you're on. On the Internet. Which was originally developed my the dreaded 'Western non-Muslims'.

Look at the language you're using. English. The dreaded 'Anglo-Saxon non-Muslim' tongue.

It is a shame the the Muslims are so weak minded that they have to look toward the disbelievers for their ideas and imitations.. Which of the Muslims are trying to emulate the sunnah?? Why is it that the Muslims seek to be so "westernized" and give alternatives.. this is clearly imitation.. Muslims do not have alternative to alcohol and call it Islamic alcohol.. Islamic alcohol is still haram....you cannot make it halal..subahannalllah
You were the one who brought alcohol up. I simply observed that if one can make a good idea bad, one can also make a bad idea good.

No we do not copy any group of people except our own.. We do not have Islamic music.. there is no such thing as Islamic Muslim except what the women do at weddings and maybe on eid...there is no such thing as Islamic acting because acting is a form of lying in majority if not all the cases.
Nobody was saying anything about music or acting...

in the same way you cannot take philosophy and make it a halal course..
why cant you think of your own Islamic ideas i don't know.. but since you seem that you cannot then is what you are doing allowed in Islam.. tell me in what way do you see Islamic philosophy permissible or Islamic???
Where did I say anything about its permissibility in Islam? All I said was if it is possible to turn a good idea into a bad one, it's also possible to reverse the process.

It is indeed ashame how lost the Muslims have become and how deep the grip is of the western thinkers and such really is on the Muslims may Allah forgive this complete weakness and utter ignorance..
Oh...kay.

Originally Posted by Tariqa
You are confusing that link taking student loans.. It is permissible to take out a loan if you really need... you have to ask your self do you really need.. then ask your self how many of the millions of Muslims really need a degree, then ask your self how many are lying , and are too weak to rough out our situations and weather the storms, and go through difficulty and leave what Allah hates for what Allah loves and pray for the help of Allah in all times??
Then ask yourself if your lying and you really do not need a loan how severely Allah will punish you on the day of judgment since Allah only knows your situation best.. Ask yourself that and i can make the answer easier for you.. That link is true but heres the secrete.. IN 99.9% of the cases there is no risq in getting a degree.. It is extremely rare that a Muslim would ever need a mortgage or a student loan EVEN THOUGH it is permissible to get one IN TIMES OF ABSOLUTE necessity and surely we are not living in a time such as that.. many Muslims are if not all of those using this excuse, are using this excuse to justify doing some of the most filthies crimes imaginable in islam... The use the laws of necessity when if not in all cases there is no real necessity, they was either just greedy, or very weak, too weak to live a life of poverty or too weak to struggle harder.. it is a shame Muslims see poverty as a necessity, they fear it so much they have resorted to the most ill of things to make money... a shame indeed..
What are you talking about?

You'd rather people lived a life of poverty than take a loan for a degree that they need to get a good career?

Read the op i did not say it was haram to learn even polytheism but think about it.. What Allah tell you if you took a class in collage and it was a class teaching you how to use magic?? Would you still stay oh its only for my degree??? in these school many students have to do things that are haram in Islam like take acting classes and music classes then perform in them just for their prerequisites to pass the class and get a degree.. It is a shame indeed...
You will only need to take acting or music classes for a degree if you are doing an acting or music degree. Again, what are you talking about?

If it is haram to get a career in these haram subjects then obviously you are advised to the utmost not to even learn them as it is mustahabb to stay away from the overspreading filth of the western thinkers... If it is haram to practice and mustahab not to learn, then what do you call the assignments and projects the students must participate in when enrolled in these studies?? Do you say "its only for a degree" or its only necessary?? May Allah forgive the most abominable of abominable Muslims and disgusting practices they have adapted indeed.
Assignments and projects such as essays and exams?

Have you ever studied a degree? If so, which subject?
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Whatsthepoint
12-31-2008, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
Umm, here's a link to a site where they mention that taking out a student loan is permissible if it is necessary for the student and not merely as a knowledge enhnancer.
Student loans.
Do all student loans work that way?
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Ar-RaYYan
12-31-2008, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
Umm, here's a link to a site where they mention that taking out a student loan is permissible if it is necessary for the student and not merely as a knowledge enhnancer.
Student loans.
i copied this from the site ^

"Like all other loans, Student loans are also permissible as long as they don't involve interest. However, if a student is in dire need to pursue his/her studies and no loans are available without interest, then in that case, under the rule of necessity, it will be permissible for the student to take the minimum loan and he/she should pay it back as soon as possible. This is of course, in the case when pursuing that field of education is also very important for the future of the Muslim student. But if a study is not necessary and it is only as a matter of enhancement of one's knowledge, then one should not take loans with interest."

What i want to know is how reliable and authentic is this site? i really want to know whether taking student loan is haram or not.

(mods you may delete my post if its off-topic - sorry :-[)
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Tariqa
12-31-2008, 10:45 PM
First off poverty is not a reason to do haram.. There is no sin in poverty but there is sin in riba..

Secondly....that fatwa said IF YOU ARE IN DIRE NEED. how many muslims can honeslty say they would die without a degree, what about welfare.. what about minmium wage??? muslims use so many excuses..


To the brother we cannot take alchol and use it as a medicaine.. The prophet forbade alcohol to even be used as a medicine and said that there is no healing in somthing allah forbids....not even for soaps it is haram....

Again you need to be more islamic.. Take somthing good and make it better ... you are going backwards by taken somthing haram and trying to innovate it to be halal.. may allah forgive you all
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Anette
01-02-2009, 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by Tariqa
This is a question as to whether or not it is permissible for Muslims to study courses that are clearly against islam... Social sciences and other sciences or subjects in particular that go against islam...
I have read a rather greate deal of social sciences and I think it is one of the most liberating subjects since the whole generally idea ,in Sweden anyway, is to criticize and asking questions about our society.

The more you criticize the better grades :ooh:

The only subject I came across that is way out in the sence that you only is allowed to think within the box is Economics. The economic system (read the western economic system) you can not asking questions regarding, you are expected to follow the main stream. That´s why I kept on reading the social subjects instead.
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pious believer
01-02-2009, 02:54 PM
:sl:
A student loan would had been ok if you only payed back your original fee, without any interest involved, but we all know it involves riba, and as far as I know riba is totally haraam, Allah the Almighty has said,
"O you who believe! Eat not Riba doubled and multiplied." (3:130)
The Messenger (SAW) of Allah has said,
"Allah curses the one who accepts Riba (usury and interest), the giver of it, the two witnesses of it, and the one who writes it." (The Sunan compilers and At-Tirmithi graded it Sahih)
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Tariqa
01-02-2009, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by pious believer
:sl:
A student loan would had been ok if you only payed back your original fee, without any interest involved, but we all know it involves riba, and as far as I know riba is totally haraam, Allah the Almighty has said,
"O you who believe! Eat not Riba doubled and multiplied." (3:130)
The Messenger (SAW) of Allah has said,
"Allah curses the one who accepts Riba (usury and interest), the giver of it, the two witnesses of it, and the one who writes it." (The Sunan compilers and At-Tirmithi graded it Sahih)
its quite funny how many would try to justify it.. The worst excuse i hear today is that a degree is abosoultely nessasary in this world... A degree in no way guarentees you a job and there are many many people that survive without a degree. Its also funny that when people hear of a ruling they think that ruling applies to themselves... Even though alcohol is permissible to drink if on the brink of stravation, how many people have you ever heard of everyday that can say this is true for their situation?? Most if not all people ever has to go through these circumstances let alone magically have a glass f alcohol magically with them at the time of starvation... Many muslims are just way to unrealistic and make to many unnessary excuses...
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doorster
01-02-2009, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by pious believer
:sl:
A student loan would had been ok if you only payed back your original fee, without any interest involved, but we all know it involves riba, and as far as I know riba is totally haraam, Allah the Almighty has said,
"O you who believe! Eat not Riba doubled and multiplied." (3:130)
The Messenger (SAW) of Allah has said,
"Allah curses the one who accepts Riba (usury and interest), the giver of it, the two witnesses of it, and the one who writes it." (The Sunan compilers and At-Tirmithi graded it Sahih)
so can I take it that you ARE older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?
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Tariqa
01-02-2009, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
so can I take it that you ARE older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?
majority of the scholars are in agreement.. You think because you have heard some fatwa from some weak scholar, does that justify what you do?

Most of the scholars agree and there are only few that disagree. In islam the lone sheep must stick to the flock, or in this case the majority in islam is better than the minority... Many scholars do not understand the living conditions of many natons and they may issue fatwas out of ignorance... You cannot use one scholar and think that this is a justification.. It is incumbant upon the muslims to use their own intellect and allah will judge them on the doay of judgement for what they knew in their hearts and what they knew not...
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doorster
01-02-2009, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Tariqa
its quite funny how many would try to justify it.. The worst excuse i hear today is that a degree is abosoultely nessasary in this world... A degree in no way guarentees you a job and there are many many people that survive without a degree. Its also funny that when people hear of a ruling they think that ruling applies to themselves... Even though alcohol is permissible to drink if on the brink of stravation, how many people have you ever heard of everyday that can say this is true for their situation?? Most if not all people ever has to go through these circumstances let alone magically have a glass f alcohol magically with them at the time of starvation... Many muslims are just way to unrealistic and make to many unnessary excuses...
yup right again, for example those taliban delegates who travelled to USA to negotiate access rights for America through Afghanistan to former Soviet countries, needed No education to reject American terms for they knew that they were helped by God to defeat Russia and not by CIA and Pakistan Army.

so they returned home then most of them along with Afghan public were promptly despatched to Paradise by America and its allies.

so you see illiteracy, stupidity, ignorance are no hindrance to committing communal suicide, attaining poverty, death and destruction for one's country.
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doorster
01-02-2009, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by Tariqa
majority of the scholars are in agreement.. You think because you have heard some fatwa from some weak scholar, does that justify what you do?

Most of the scholars agree and there are only few that disagree. In islam the lone sheep must stick to the flock, or in this case the majority in islam is better than the minority... Many scholars do not understand the living conditions of many natons and they may issue fatwas out of ignorance... You cannot use one scholar and think that this is a justification.. It is incumbant upon the muslims to use their own intellect and allah will judge them on the doay of judgement for what they knew in their hearts and what they knew not...
I am fast loosing my patience and jocular mood wont last for long o mighty scholar

PS. what is definition of hypocisy?

are you realy so dumb that you have the gall to call two of the best and most respected men, weak scholars? I could post a name of Muslim (who is banned from West) but I fear you will insult him because of your genuine ignorace or because you are a time wasting fraud
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aamirsaab
01-02-2009, 04:06 PM
:sl:
I didn't need a student loan, cus I was awesome enough to obtain a scholarship and a government grant (which paid off my uni fees). Though, it wasn't exactly hard to obtain either one of them - for the grant I just didn't take out a student loan and for the scholarship I kicked academic @$$ in college. So in terms of student loans and financing further education, the halaal way is lit up like an x-mas tree (sorry, I have to fill a quota of corny and seasonal jokes)

Western subjects? Yeah I agree some courses are mickey mouse-like but that doesn't make them haram. Pointless maybe (cough film studies cough) but they are interesting at the very least and they do broaden your horizons about those particular areas. To outright call them haram is going a bit too far; it's not like there are subjects dedicated to the wonderful and magical properties of consuming pork and alcohol.

Oh and sociology is supposed to be a doss-lesson anyhow; you can actually blag your way through the course or so I am told.
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pious believer
01-02-2009, 04:13 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by doorster
so can I take it that you ARE older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?
am not understanding ur point??
i dont see anything wrong with what i said?? "payed back original fee" if u didnt understand let me elaborate, my point was a student loan would had been fine if you only payed back the original fee, and no extra money (as this is interest=riba) and as long as you resolve to pay it back, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Whoever takes people wealth intending to pay it off, Allaah will help him to pay it off, but whoever takes it intending to use it up (without repaying), Allaah will destroy him. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2387).

I dont think its neccessary to have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani to understand the disadvantages of interest or what ever your point was.
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doorster
01-02-2009, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by pious believer
:sl:



am not understanding ur point??
i dont see anything wrong with what i said?? "payed back original fee" if u didnt understand let me elaborate, my point was a student loan would had been fine if you only payed back the original fee, and no extra money (as this is interest=riba) and as long as you resolve to pay it back, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Whoever takes people wealth intending to pay it off, Allaah will help him to pay it off, but whoever takes it intending to use it up (without repaying), Allaah will destroy him. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2387).

I dont think its neccessary to have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani to understand the disadvantages of interest or what ever your point was.
once again;


ARE you older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani and a better understanding of Quran than the editor of Ma'ariful Quraan and son of the author of the same?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?

since they clearly disagree with you, I need to know about your knowledge or lack thereof, to be able to see how you arrived at your fatwa/decree/opinion in so absolute terms
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pious believer
01-02-2009, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
once again;


ARE you older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani and a better understanding of Quran than the editor of Ma'ariful Quraan and son of the author of the same?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?

since they clearly disagree with you, I need to know about your knowledge or lack thereof, to be able to see how you arrived at your fatwa/decree/opinion in so absolute terms

am no scholar, just said what av read in the Quran and the Hadiths, and i would like to know, those scholars who u mentioned, their opinions..
jazakAllah kair.
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ardianto
01-02-2009, 05:08 PM
[QUOTE=Tariqa;1070045]
Student Loans


I want to ask other member.

What is Student Loan ?
Loan for what ? for pay college/university fee ?
Who give Student Loan ? Government ?

I know this is a silly question, but you know where I'm come from.
Reply

pious believer
01-02-2009, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Student Loans


I want to ask other member.

What is Student Loan ?
Loan for what ? for pay college/university fee ?
Who give Student Loan ? Government ?

I know this is a silly question, but you know where I'm come from.
:sl:
well to go uni u need to pay a fees, people who cant afford it take out a student loan, which involves interest.
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doorster
01-02-2009, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by pious believer
am no scholar, just said what av read in the Quran and the Hadiths, and i would like to know, those scholars who u mentioned, their opinions..
jazakAllah kair.
:sl:
this should do to start with
http://www.islamicboard.com/educatio...ml#post1071319

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi was born in India in 1943, he received his early education at Aligarh Muslim University and Darul-uloom Nadwatul Ulama, Lucknow, India. Siddiqi graduated from the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia in 1965 with a higher degree in Arabic and Islamic Studies. He received an M.A. in Theology from Birmingham University in England and a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion from Harvard University in the United States. He was once president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and he says:
"Like all other loans, Student loans are also permissible as long as they don't involve interest. However, if a student is in dire need to pursue his/her studies and no loans are available without interest, then in that case, under the rule of necessity, it will be permissible for the student to take the minimum loan and he/she should pay it back as soon as possible. This is of course, in the case when pursuing that field of education is also very important for the future of the Muslim student. But if a study is not necessary and it is only as a matter of enhancement of one's knowledge, then one should not take loans with interest."
:w:
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pious believer
01-02-2009, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
:sl:
this should do to start with
http://www.islamicboard.com/educatio...ml#post1071319

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi was born in India in 1943, he received his early education at Aligarh Muslim University and Darul-uloom Nadwatul Ulama, Lucknow, India. Siddiqi graduated from the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia in 1965 with a higher degree in Arabic and Islamic Studies. He received an M.A. in Theology from Birmingham University in England and a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion from Harvard University in the United States. He was once president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and he says: :w:

This can only be applied to certian circumstances, not in every situation
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pious believer
01-02-2009, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
:sl:
this should do to start with
http://www.islamicboard.com/educatio...ml#post1071319

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi was born in India in 1943, he received his early education at Aligarh Muslim University and Darul-uloom Nadwatul Ulama, Lucknow, India. Siddiqi graduated from the Islamic University of Medina in Saudi Arabia in 1965 with a higher degree in Arabic and Islamic Studies. He received an M.A. in Theology from Birmingham University in England and a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion from Harvard University in the United States. He was once president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and he says: :w:
Allah's Messenger (SAWS) cursed the accepter of interest and its payer, and one who records it, and the two witnesses; and he said: They are all equal. (Sahih Muslim)
Similar hadith narrated by Abdullah ibn Masud RA and recorded by Abu Daud.

Just wanted to know, are we still cursed if we plea that excuse on the day of judgement, that we were dire in need for the student loan?
Reply

doorster
01-02-2009, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by pious believer
Allah's Messenger (SAWS) cursed the accepter of interest and its payer, and one who records it, and the two witnesses; and he said: They are all equal. (Sahih Muslim)
Similar hadith narrated by Abdullah ibn Masud RA and recorded by Abu Daud.

Just wanted to know, are we still cursed if we plea that excuse on the day of judgement, that we were dire in need for the student loan?
oh deary me!

If you belong to mullah omar school what the hell are you doing in UK? should you not be moving to a land of milk and honey like Afghanistan, or North Pakistan with like-minded people, where they regularly burn bank or school workers and parents of girls who commit the sin of educating their daughters
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pious believer
01-02-2009, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by doorster
oh deary me!

If you belong to mullah omar school what the hell are you doing in UK? should you not be moving to a land of milk and honey like Afghanistan, or North Pakistan with like-minded people, where they regularly burn bank or school workers and parents of girls who commit the sin of educating their daughters
:ooh:
am an undergraduate student, i do believe we all, regardless of gender, should educate our selves, so how can u call me like minded like those ppl?? imsad
I was talking about RIBA not about if its ok for us to educate our selves!
its not my fault people cant work hard to pay for their uni fees, and they come up with lame excuses to obtain a student loan=RIBA
Maybe in life u havnt tried working hard, cos thats life, lazyness isnt gna get u anywhere! NO WONDER ur getting so agitated.:D
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Tariqa
01-02-2009, 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by pious believer
This can only be applied to certian circumstances, not in every situation
Sir i hate to take sides.. but i have already told this man in disagreement that what one scholar says does not always mean it is right..

i believe he is misinterpeting what his scholar he loves so much has said to the point where he is getting emotional..

What you are saying is what i am saying

Just because you can take intrest with a dire need does not mean that you qualify for the dire need

Many muslims may act like they are in dire need because they want a bigger house... A bigger house is not a nessecity.. It is very very rare to find anyone that actually needs a student loans because most places if not all has other systems of support...
This is why many scholars say that though there is a permission for usury, almost 99% of the times no one in todays age will not especially in the places that are wealthy...
The scholars all agree that there are many muslims today that take advantage of these permissions in great deal...
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ardianto
01-03-2009, 07:26 AM
Originally Posted by pious believer
:sl:
well to go uni u need to pay a fees, people who cant afford it take out a student loan, which involves interest.
:sl:
Thanks for your information, bro.
Do you know a Website where I can find more information about Student Loan (How to get loan, Is it Government program or not, How to pay, etc).
Of course, I will not take out a Student Loan from your place. I live in other country, and - Alhamdulillah - I have no problem with study fee.
There is no Student Loan in my place. That's why I want to know further information about Student Loan. I wish I can get some ideas, then sharing these ideas with other people in my place.
Many peoples in my place want to study in University. But, they cannot afford to pay study fees. Study fees is too expensive for them.
I hope, I can do something for help them.
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Tariqa
01-03-2009, 07:41 AM
I can give you some websites to learn how to avoid student loans.. i kind of kidding but the best thing for you in your case is to learn as much negitive thnigs about them as you can so that you would never be tempted to use one or give this information to someone who thinks this is acceptable..
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ardianto
01-03-2009, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by Tariqa
I can give you some websites to learn how to avoid student loans.. i kind of kidding but the best thing for you in your case is to learn as much negitive thnigs about them as you can so that you would never be tempted to use one or give this information to someone who thinks this is acceptable..
Is it for me ?
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Tariqa
01-03-2009, 09:43 AM
I just dont want you to learn what you dont know already and it falls in the wrong hands... You see many people become corrupt in this manner.. The scholars say that if a person is weak in faith he should not even learn these western subjects that teach haram things.. you must be strong in faith lest you fall for the temptations of what you are too weak to resist...

This is the same for anyone trying to learn bidah... it is best that a muslim stays away from the masjids of bidah lest they are too weak and fall for temtaption.. i hop you understand what i am saying..
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Anette
01-03-2009, 09:54 AM
[QUOTE=ardianto;1072918]
Originally Posted by Tariqa
Student Loans


I want to ask other member.

What is Student Loan ?
Loan for what ? for pay college/university fee ?
Who give Student Loan ? Government ?

I know this is a silly question, but you know where I'm come from.
I think different countries has different systems. A student loan is something you can live on during education in Sweden. You will get some money in Sweden for free - no loan - and if you need some more you can take a loan with a small interest. It is both to pay rent and then to buy books and bus tickets and so on. In Sweden the government has a special office that handles the loans and the benefits. In Sweden there are no fees in collage or university it's for free. But I think there are different systems.
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Tariqa
01-03-2009, 10:28 AM
its better to get financial aid, and even better to pay for the classes out oof pocket but in my strongest opinion, i would say that it is best to not go to any western secualr schooling that teaches anything haram at all..
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Tariqa
01-05-2009, 06:36 AM
[QUOTE=Tariqa;1073367]its better to get financial aid, and even better to pay for the classes out oof pocket but in my strongest opinion, i would say that it is best to not go to any western secualr schooling that teaches anything haram at all..
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jen.bas
01-05-2009, 08:02 AM
As for me, it's definitely okay. Everything that you encounter everyday will teach you something new and whatever new things you have learned, you'll just have to practice it in a good way that would benefit the majority. :peace:
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Tariqa
01-05-2009, 09:04 AM
this is not right
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nocturne
01-06-2009, 02:21 PM
Currently, i am taking a interest-free loan till i complete my education. Inshallah, i hope to save up enough money to pay it off before the interest commences.
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mediadave
01-10-2009, 02:57 AM
I should point out that in the UK, government (student loans company) student loans are technically interest free*


*they rise with the interest rate. And the government generally ties it to the highest rate, so it isn't quite interest free. But its not like a commercial loan.
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Tariqa
02-07-2009, 02:28 AM
alhumdulilah may allah accept your findings
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