Muslims, Student Loans, and Western Subjects

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Tariqa

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This thread is to shed some light on two subjects very quickly: Student loans and Western Subjects.

Student Loans

First and foremost the question resides in the loan...The loan that requires a usurious payment...
How important is getting an education?? Is it a necessity of life?? What would implicate a man to take out a loan that Allah hates so much so that he can gain something of an uncertified value...There is no telling after he gets his degree that he will get a job....Is taking a student loan for learning after a dictation to ever commit such a heinous crime?? The 3 necessities of life does not fall under education and in most cases a man will not die from a lower job..A degree is only to get something better...a step above a basic but Allah has commanded us to be content with the basics... For those that crave something beyond basics can do so in a halal manner.. Where does this practice come from that a Muslim would take out loans on riba as there are other options available for the Muslim to do to advance in life??



Western Subjects

This is a question as to whether or not it is permissible for Muslims to study courses that are clearly against islam... Social sciences and other sciences or subjects in particular that go against islam...
As far as we know it is allowed to learn these subjects, the ones who know.. Our children being raised up under this indoctrination can be misled... Even adults who are not firmly grounded in knowledge of the deen can be misled... Though a Muslim knows the truth, it is not recommended in the least for a Muslim to study any perverted thoughts of any people that are not proven to be factual.. This is still a dangerous matter...It was told to some group of men that though are grounded in knowledge they should not go close to any innovators and listen to their speech for fear of being misled and our societies are not only taken years of studies under these ideologies but they are implementing these ways..
 
Tariqa said:
This is a question as to whether or not it is permissible for Muslims to study courses that are clearly against islam... Social sciences and other sciences or subjects in particular that go against islam...
Click to expand...

:sl:

Who said these things are clearly against Islam?? You're very quick to label, brother!
 
I did not indicate which subjects in particular were against Islam or not i was speaking in general.. If you would like to know which in particular i will clarify...

Studies in general knowledge that goes against Islamic knowledge such as theories by western thinkers... The Darwin theories and evolutionary theories to name a few.... These are clearly against Islam and whoever says they are not has disbelieved in what Allah has revealed.....
 
Tariqa said:
I did not indicate which subjects in particular were against Islam or not i was speaking in general.. If you would like to know which in particular i will clarify...

Studies in general knowledge that goes against Islamic knowledge such as theories by western thinkers... The Darwin theories and evolutionary theories to name a few.... These are clearly against Islam and whoever says they are not has disbelieved in what Allah has revealed.....
Click to expand...


The Western thinkers of the enlightnment were influenced by the Islamic thinkers. If I can offer some constructive criticism, you seem to be very eager to declare who is and is not a Muslim, what is and what is not Islam, but you don’t provide many specifics to buttress your claims. Just something to consider.
 
so what ... just because the western thinkers wre influenced by muslim thinkers does not mean anything.. there are lots of muslims who claim to be muslims that innovate evils in this world.. And even if they muslims were inoovating good things, they are no responsible for what they western thinkers misinterpeted from them so it does not hold any wieght to say who was influncend by who... Disbelevers can be influenced by any one and still interept good nto evil ideas .. like a man can tak an apple and make wine, it makes no difference..
 
Tariqa said:
so what ... just because the western thinkers wre influenced by muslim thinkers does not mean anything.. there are lots of muslims who claim to be muslims that innovate evils in this world.. And even if they muslims were inoovating good things, they are no responsible for what they western thinkers misinterpeted from them so it does not hold any wieght to say who was influncend by who... Disbelevers can be influenced by any one and still interept good nto evil ideas .. like a man can tak an apple and make wine, it makes no difference..
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If you can turn good ideas into bad ideas, you can also turn bad ideas into good ones.

But anway, Philosophy is not a particularly useful degree unless you want to work in academia (if I've offended anyone with my ignorance, I do apologise, and do correct me).

So, it's a bit of a non-issue.
 
Umm, here's a link to a site where they mention that taking out a student loan is permissible if it is necessary for the student and not merely as a knowledge enhnancer.
Student loans.
 
When in the comparative religion thread, an element of knowledge of other religions is required, right? The same principle applies to this. There is no harm in learning opposing belief systems, ideologies etc for the purpose of education.As long as one is aware of the truth and their deen is strong inshAllah, I see no problems with "Western Subjects"
 
Mister i think you are missing the point you see. Our religion is not an alternative religion to Judaism or polytheism.. Our religion is the original religion ... we Muslims are the originators and we are not the imitators.. How do you think you can take alcohol and make it a drink?? Once something is burned it cannot restore to its original state and that is what the firs is for..once the disbelievers are put in the fire Allah will make them reside forever and there is not turning it around. It is a shame the the Muslims are so weak minded that they have to look toward the disbelievers for their ideas and imitations.. Which of the Muslims are trying to emulate the sunnah?? Why is it that the Muslims seek to be so "westernized" and give alternatives.. this is clearly imitation.. Muslims do not have alternative to alcohol and call it Islamic alcohol.. Islamic alcohol is still haram....you cannot make it halal..subahannalllah

No we do not copy any group of people except our own.. We do not have Islamic music.. there is no such thing as Islamic Muslim except what the women do at weddings and maybe on eid...there is no such thing as Islamic acting because acting is a form of lying in majority if not all the cases..
in the same way you cannot take philosophy and make it a halal course.. why cant you think of your own Islamic ideas i don't know.. but since you seem that you cannot then is what you are doing allowed in Islam.. tell me in what way do you see Islamic philosophy permissible or Islamic??? It is indeed ashame how lost the Muslims have become and how deep the grip is of the western thinkers and such really is on the Muslims may Allah forgive this complete weakness and utter ignorance..


You are confusing that link taking student loans.. It is permissible to take out a loan if you really need... you have to ask your self do you really need.. then ask your self how many of the millions of Muslims really need a degree, then ask your self how many are lying , and are too weak to rough out our situations and weather the storms, and go through difficulty and leave what Allah hates for what Allah loves and pray for the help of Allah in all times??
Then ask yourself if your lying and you really do not need a loan how severely Allah will punish you on the day of judgment since Allah only knows your situation best.. Ask yourself that and i can make the answer easier for you.. That link is true but heres the secrete.. IN 99.9% of the cases there is no risq in getting a degree.. It is extremely rare that a Muslim would ever need a mortgage or a student loan EVEN THOUGH it is permissible to get one IN TIMES OF ABSOLUTE necessity and surely we are not living in a time such as that.. many Muslims are if not all of those using this excuse, are using this excuse to justify doing some of the most filthies crimes imaginable in islam... The use the laws of necessity when if not in all cases there is no real necessity, they was either just greedy, or very weak, too weak to live a life of poverty or too weak to struggle harder.. it is a shame Muslims see poverty as a necessity, they fear it so much they have resorted to the most ill of things to make money... a shame indeed..


Read the op i did not say it was haram to learn even polytheism but think about it.. What Allah tell you if you took a class in collage and it was a class teaching you how to use magic?? Would you still stay oh its only for my degree??? in these school many students have to do things that are haram in Islam like take acting classes and music classes then perform in them just for their prerequisites to pass the class and get a degree.. It is a shame indeed...

If it is haram to get a career in these haram subjects then obviously you are advised to the utmost not to even learn them as it is mustahabb to stay away from the overspreading filth of the western thinkers... If it is haram to practice and mustahab not to learn, then what do you call the assignments and projects the students must participate in when enrolled in these studies?? Do you say "its only for a degree" or its only necessary?? May Allah forgive the most abominable of abominable Muslims and disgusting practices they have adapted indeed.
 
How can you debate and refute claims of darwinists etc. if you don't know ANYTHING on the issue? That doesn't make sense. Knowledge is always good, period. Case closed. Excuse me if Í'm being harsh here, but I will always stand against ignorance and false claims. Someone has to say the truth.
 
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So you want to learn Darwinism hey??? Then pick up a book. your obviously speaking from irrationality.. You do not understand the western mentality and the western system of the education system.. it is for you to learn but they teach in their own way.. many schools require you in order to pass the class by doing haram things and this is no secrete...If you want to learn Darwinism then pick up a book, why is it that in order to learn the Muslims feel the need to do what the non believers do which is to do so under the systems of how the non Muslims do.. Why cant Muslims learn other ways?? Or is it because they only want what the kafirs have, big luxury cars that can play loud music and such...?? This is a shame that many Muslims feel there is no way besides the kafirs way and become very unreceptive when another Muslim criticizes this method.. Many Muslims hold the education system of the non Muslims so sacred that they would put of the even more sacred bond of marriage and pregnancy and even religious studies before they get a piece of paper called a degree.. Many Muslims feel that if another Muslim says he thinks the mere action of learning these false ideologies is macro or not recommended then he is considered "a back wards Muslim" or behind... subanallah may Allah forgive these weak Muslims who are too proud and arrogant to listen to ways of strength and may Allah cause these weak Muslims to love the religious knowledge and strive for what is most important over what they now see as "secular obligations" indeed inshallah..
 
Tariqa said:
Mister i think you are missing the point you see. Our religion is not an alternative religion to Judaism or polytheism.. Our religion is the original religion ... we Muslims are the originators and we are not the imitators.. How do you think you can take alcohol and make it a drink??
Click to expand...
You can't make alcohol a drink, but you can make it a part of a medicine.

Once something is burned it cannot restore to its original state and that is what the firs is for..once the disbelievers are put in the fire Allah will make them reside forever and there is not turning it around.
Click to expand...
You're talking about ideas, not souls burning in hell.

And besides, if the way you think is that nothing is ever salvagable, then you will not progress.

Look at this site that you're on. On the Internet. Which was originally developed my the dreaded 'Western non-Muslims'.

Look at the language you're using. English. The dreaded 'Anglo-Saxon non-Muslim' tongue.

It is a shame the the Muslims are so weak minded that they have to look toward the disbelievers for their ideas and imitations.. Which of the Muslims are trying to emulate the sunnah?? Why is it that the Muslims seek to be so "westernized" and give alternatives.. this is clearly imitation.. Muslims do not have alternative to alcohol and call it Islamic alcohol.. Islamic alcohol is still haram....you cannot make it halal..subahannalllah
Click to expand...
You were the one who brought alcohol up. I simply observed that if one can make a good idea bad, one can also make a bad idea good.

No we do not copy any group of people except our own.. We do not have Islamic music.. there is no such thing as Islamic Muslim except what the women do at weddings and maybe on eid...there is no such thing as Islamic acting because acting is a form of lying in majority if not all the cases.
Click to expand...
Nobody was saying anything about music or acting...

in the same way you cannot take philosophy and make it a halal course..
why cant you think of your own Islamic ideas i don't know.. but since you seem that you cannot then is what you are doing allowed in Islam.. tell me in what way do you see Islamic philosophy permissible or Islamic???
Click to expand...
Where did I say anything about its permissibility in Islam? All I said was if it is possible to turn a good idea into a bad one, it's also possible to reverse the process.

It is indeed ashame how lost the Muslims have become and how deep the grip is of the western thinkers and such really is on the Muslims may Allah forgive this complete weakness and utter ignorance..
Click to expand...
Oh...kay.

Tariqa said:
You are confusing that link taking student loans.. It is permissible to take out a loan if you really need... you have to ask your self do you really need.. then ask your self how many of the millions of Muslims really need a degree, then ask your self how many are lying , and are too weak to rough out our situations and weather the storms, and go through difficulty and leave what Allah hates for what Allah loves and pray for the help of Allah in all times??
Then ask yourself if your lying and you really do not need a loan how severely Allah will punish you on the day of judgment since Allah only knows your situation best.. Ask yourself that and i can make the answer easier for you.. That link is true but heres the secrete.. IN 99.9% of the cases there is no risq in getting a degree.. It is extremely rare that a Muslim would ever need a mortgage or a student loan EVEN THOUGH it is permissible to get one IN TIMES OF ABSOLUTE necessity and surely we are not living in a time such as that.. many Muslims are if not all of those using this excuse, are using this excuse to justify doing some of the most filthies crimes imaginable in islam... The use the laws of necessity when if not in all cases there is no real necessity, they was either just greedy, or very weak, too weak to live a life of poverty or too weak to struggle harder.. it is a shame Muslims see poverty as a necessity, they fear it so much they have resorted to the most ill of things to make money... a shame indeed..
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What are you talking about?

You'd rather people lived a life of poverty than take a loan for a degree that they need to get a good career?

Read the op i did not say it was haram to learn even polytheism but think about it.. What Allah tell you if you took a class in collage and it was a class teaching you how to use magic?? Would you still stay oh its only for my degree??? in these school many students have to do things that are haram in Islam like take acting classes and music classes then perform in them just for their prerequisites to pass the class and get a degree.. It is a shame indeed...
Click to expand...
You will only need to take acting or music classes for a degree if you are doing an acting or music degree. Again, what are you talking about?

If it is haram to get a career in these haram subjects then obviously you are advised to the utmost not to even learn them as it is mustahabb to stay away from the overspreading filth of the western thinkers... If it is haram to practice and mustahab not to learn, then what do you call the assignments and projects the students must participate in when enrolled in these studies?? Do you say "its only for a degree" or its only necessary?? May Allah forgive the most abominable of abominable Muslims and disgusting practices they have adapted indeed.
Click to expand...
Assignments and projects such as essays and exams?

Have you ever studied a degree? If so, which subject?
 
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Musaafir said:
Umm, here's a link to a site where they mention that taking out a student loan is permissible if it is necessary for the student and not merely as a knowledge enhnancer.
Student loans.
Click to expand...

i copied this from the site ^

"Like all other loans, Student loans are also permissible as long as they don't involve interest. However, if a student is in dire need to pursue his/her studies and no loans are available without interest, then in that case, under the rule of necessity, it will be permissible for the student to take the minimum loan and he/she should pay it back as soon as possible. This is of course, in the case when pursuing that field of education is also very important for the future of the Muslim student. But if a study is not necessary and it is only as a matter of enhancement of one's knowledge, then one should not take loans with interest."

What i want to know is how reliable and authentic is this site? i really want to know whether taking student loan is haram or not.

(mods you may delete my post if its off-topic - sorry :-[)
 
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First off poverty is not a reason to do haram.. There is no sin in poverty but there is sin in riba..

Secondly....that fatwa said IF YOU ARE IN DIRE NEED. how many muslims can honeslty say they would die without a degree, what about welfare.. what about minmium wage??? muslims use so many excuses..


To the brother we cannot take alchol and use it as a medicaine.. The prophet forbade alcohol to even be used as a medicine and said that there is no healing in somthing allah forbids....not even for soaps it is haram....

Again you need to be more islamic.. Take somthing good and make it better ... you are going backwards by taken somthing haram and trying to innovate it to be halal.. may allah forgive you all
 
Tariqa said:
This is a question as to whether or not it is permissible for Muslims to study courses that are clearly against islam... Social sciences and other sciences or subjects in particular that go against islam...
Click to expand...

I have read a rather greate deal of social sciences and I think it is one of the most liberating subjects since the whole generally idea ,in Sweden anyway, is to criticize and asking questions about our society.

The more you criticize the better grades :ooh:

The only subject I came across that is way out in the sence that you only is allowed to think within the box is Economics. The economic system (read the western economic system) you can not asking questions regarding, you are expected to follow the main stream. That´s why I kept on reading the social subjects instead.
 
:sl:
A student loan would had been ok if you only payed back your original fee, without any interest involved, but we all know it involves riba, and as far as I know riba is totally haraam, Allah the Almighty has said,
"O you who believe! Eat not Riba doubled and multiplied." (3:130)
The Messenger (SAW) of Allah has said,
"Allah curses the one who accepts Riba (usury and interest), the giver of it, the two witnesses of it, and the one who writes it." (The Sunan compilers and At-Tirmithi graded it Sahih)
 
pious believer said:
:sl:
A student loan would had been ok if you only payed back your original fee, without any interest involved, but we all know it involves riba, and as far as I know riba is totally haraam, Allah the Almighty has said,
"O you who believe! Eat not Riba doubled and multiplied." (3:130)
The Messenger (SAW) of Allah has said,
"Allah curses the one who accepts Riba (usury and interest), the giver of it, the two witnesses of it, and the one who writes it." (The Sunan compilers and At-Tirmithi graded it Sahih)
Click to expand...

its quite funny how many would try to justify it.. The worst excuse i hear today is that a degree is abosoultely nessasary in this world... A degree in no way guarentees you a job and there are many many people that survive without a degree. Its also funny that when people hear of a ruling they think that ruling applies to themselves... Even though alcohol is permissible to drink if on the brink of stravation, how many people have you ever heard of everyday that can say this is true for their situation?? Most if not all people ever has to go through these circumstances let alone magically have a glass f alcohol magically with them at the time of starvation... Many muslims are just way to unrealistic and make to many unnessary excuses...
 
pious believer said:
:sl:
A student loan would had been ok if you only payed back your original fee, without any interest involved, but we all know it involves riba, and as far as I know riba is totally haraam, Allah the Almighty has said,
"O you who believe! Eat not Riba doubled and multiplied." (3:130)
The Messenger (SAW) of Allah has said,
"Allah curses the one who accepts Riba (usury and interest), the giver of it, the two witnesses of it, and the one who writes it." (The Sunan compilers and At-Tirmithi graded it Sahih)
Click to expand...
so can I take it that you ARE older than and have higher degree of knowledge than Dr Sidiqui and a better understanding of Ahaadees than Justice Usmani?

is your biography available on some reputable website so that I may compare it with above mentioned ulema?
 

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