Is Allah a personal God?

[glo]

I have had different replies from Muslims on this.

Some see Allah as a distant God - one who demands respect and obedience, one a believer approaches as a slave and servant.

Others see Allah as a personal God, who knows us and cares about us, who loves us and answers prayers.

So how does Islam see Allah? As the first, the latter or as both?

Thanks, and peace :)

[yusuf18]

islam sees allah as both above allah gave us our way of life which is islam know its up to man to take his path allah even if you dont beleve in allah /allah still feeds and he still sends down rain he still make happeness in this life yet man is ungrateful and allah loves all of us more then our OWN MOTHER but we must OBEY HIM becouse he is worthy of all praise

[idk]

Allah is both..

Allah's orders are to be obeyed, no matter what,
But he is also merciful, loving, kind, and closer to you than your jugular vein. Allah sees all injustice done to you, he counts your every tear and sees your most personal, inner thoughts.

Hope i helped sis (: x

And Allah loves all of his creation, he hates none of it, yet he hates that which they do, and the fact that some of them deny his existence.

Here are the 99 names of Allah, which describe him swt:

Allah The Greatest Name
Ar-Rahman 1 The All-Compassionate
Ar-Rahim 2 The All-Merciful
Al-Malik 3 The Absolute Ruler
Al-Quddus 4 The Pure One
As-Salam 5 The Source of Peace
Al-Mu'min 6 The Inspirer of Faith
Al-Muhaymin 7 The Guardian
Al-'Aziz 8 The Victorious
Al-Jabbar 9 The Compeller
Al-Mutakabbir 10 The Greatest
Al-Khaliq 11 The Creator
Al-Bari' 12 The Maker of Order
Al-Musawwir 13 The Shaper of Beauty
Al-Ghaffar 14 The Forgiving
Al-Qahhar 15 The Subduer
Al-Wahhab 16 The Giver of All
Ar-Razzaq 17 The Sustainer
Al-Fattah 18 The Opener
Al-'Alim 19 The Knower of All
Al-Qabid 20 The Constrictor
Al-Basit 21 The Reliever
Al-Khafid 22 The Abaser
Ar-Rafi' 23 The Exalter
Al-Mu'izz 24 The Bestower of Honors
Al-Mudhill 25 The Humiliator
As-Sami 26 The Hearer of All
Al-Basir 27 The Seer of All
Al-Hakam 28 The Judge
Al-'Adl 29 The Just
Al-Latif 30 The Subtle One
Al-Khabir 31 The All-Aware
Al-Halim 32 The Forebearing
Al-'Azim 33 The Magnificent
Al-Ghafur 34 The Forgiver and Hider of Faults
Ash-Shakur 35 The Rewarder of Thankfulness
Al-'Ali 36 The Highest
Al-Kabir 37 The Greatest
Al-Hafiz 38 The Preserver
Al-Muqit 39 The Nourisher
Al-Hasib 40 The Accounter
Al-Jalil 41 The Mighty
Al-Karim 42 The Generous
Ar-Raqib 43 The Watchful One
Al-Mujib 44 The Responder to Prayer
Al-Wasi' 45 The All-Comprehending
Al-Hakim 46 The Perfectly Wise
Al-Wadud 47 The Loving One
Al-Majíd 48 The Majestic One
Al-Ba'ith 49 The Resurrector
Ash-Shahid 50 The Witness
Al-h Haqq 51 The Truth
Al-Wakil 52 The Trustee
Al-Qawi 53 The Possessor of All Strength
Al-Matin 54 The Forceful One
Al-Wáli 55 The Governor
Al-Hamid 56 The Praised One
Al-Muhsi 57 The Appraiser
Al-Mubdi 58 The Originator
Al-Mu'id 59 The Restorer
Al-Muhyi 60 The Giver of Life
Al-Mumit 61 The Taker of Life
Al-Hayy 62 The Ever Living One
Al-Qayyum 63 The Self-Existing One
Al-Wajid 64 The Finder
Al-Májid 65 The Glorious
Al-Wahid 66 The Only One
Al-Ahad 67 The One
As-Samad 68 The Satisfier of All Needs
Al-Qadir 69 The All Powerful
Al-Muqtadir 70 The Creator of All Power
Al-Muqaddim 71 The Expediter
Al-Mu'akhkhir 72 The Delayer
Al-Awwal 73 The First
Al-Akhir 74 The Last
Az-Zahir 75 The Manifest One
Al-Batin 76 The Hidden One
Al-Walí 77 The Protecting Friend
Al-Muta'ali 78 The Supreme One
Al-Barr 79 The Doer of Good
At-Tawwib 80 The Guide to Repentance
Al-Muntaqim 81 The Avenger
Al-Afu 82 The Forgiver
Ar-Ra'uf 83 The Clement
Malik al-Mulk 84 The Owner of All
Dhul-Jalali
Wal-Ikram 85 The Lord of Majesty and Bounty
Al-Muqsit 86 The Equitable One
Al-Jami 87 The Gatherer
Al-Ghani 88 The Rich One
Al-Mughni 89 The Enricher
Al-Mani' 90 The Preventer of Harm
Ad-Darr 91 The Creator of The Harmful
An-Nafi 92 The Creator of Good
An-Nur 93 The Light
Al-Hadi 94 The Guide
Al-Badi 95 The Originator
Al-Baqi 96 The Everlasting One
Al-Warith 97 The Inheritor of All
Ar-Rashid 98 The Righteous Teacher
As-Sabur 99 The Patient One

[Muezzin]

I have had different replies from Muslims on this.

Some see Allah as a distant God - one who demands respect and obedience, one a believer approaches as a slave and servant.

Others see Allah as a personal God, who knows us and cares about us, who loves us and answers prayers.

So how does Islam see Allah? As the first, the latter or as both?

Thanks, and peace :)

It's really both.

People may lean to one explanation over another depending on variables exclusive to them, such as their individual worldview, or just how articulate they are and how easy it is for them to communicate ideas.

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[mattityahu]

I struggle to understand how Allah can be personal while at the same time the doctrine of Tawheed being true. For example, if Allah is fundamentally relational, who did he relate to before he created other beings? Is Allah reliant upon his creation in order to be loving, merciful, etc?

[Muezzin]

I struggle to understand how Allah can be personal while at the same time the doctrine of Tawheed being true.

What do you understand the doctrine of Tawheed to be?

[mattityahu]

Essentially pure monotheism: that Allah is the unique, indivisible God.

Yours,
M

[aadil77]

Yes Allah can be personal, as Allah says he is closer to us than our jugular vein. If we try to go closer to Allah through good deeds then He will come closer to us. Some (i think) of the sahaba of the prophet were given the status of 'friends of Allah', which can't get more personal.

Allah is with us all the time and I know that for certain. Sometimes if I don't set the alarm for fajr prayer, then something inside me just clicks and wakes me up automatically, which is clearly from Allah. Soo many times Allah has saved me from danger, reminded me of important things etc. Allahs favours are uncountable.

Sometimes during bad times, when Allah provides relief you truly feel that personal connection with Him, you feel that you could rely totally on Him for anything. Sometime I feel that if I was even lost in a jungle in the middle of nowhere, that I could purely rely on Allah to provide for me and protect me. Thats the personal connection I feel with Allah, sometimes you can just talk to Allah even if there is no verbal reply, you just know He is there listening.

SubhanAllah thats why nothing in this world is as valuable as that and nothing could ever make me give up this mercy from Allah. Allahu Akbar!

At the same time I know I cannot misuse this mercy from Allah and I am aware of the Might of Allah, as he is the King of Kings and rememberence of these qualities not only keeps you straight but also amazes you of the wonders of Allah.

So the answer is I see Him both ways as this way is the best, it gives you contentment and happiness but also sets you straight, preventing you from misusing His mercy.

[mattityahu]

I'm interested in this phrase "closer than your jugular vein". I believe this is only found in the Qur'an, 50:16, which says "We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein." The context seems to suggest that the phrase refers to Allah's omniscience and omnipresence. I'm not convinced that this teaches that Allah is personal - indeed 50:17 then says "Two recording (angels), at right and at left, are constantly recording." - I don't know of any genuine loving personal relationships where one person is constantly checking up on the other to make sure the other isn't sinning against them. The ones I know of involve trust.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I'm interested in this phrase "closer than your jugular vein". I believe this is only found in the Qur'an, 50:16, which says "We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein." The context seems to suggest that the phrase refers to Allah's omniscience and omnipresence.

I've been told before on the forum that Muslims don't believe Allah is omnipresent. That's obviously open to correction from anyone who knows more about it than I do.

As for the main topic - I have a hard enough time understanding what people mean when they talk about god. Start talking about a personal god and I have no idea what is being referred to.

Peace

[aadil77]

I'm interested in this phrase "closer than your jugular vein". I believe this is only found in the Qur'an, 50:16, which says "We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein." The context seems to suggest that the phrase refers to Allah's omniscience and omnipresence. I'm not convinced that this teaches that Allah is personal - indeed 50:17 then says "Two recording (angels), at right and at left, are constantly recording." - I don't know of any genuine loving personal relationships where one person is constantly checking up on the other to make sure the other isn't sinning against them. The ones I know of involve trust.

Allah has told of his closeness through that verse, so its up to you to make it 'personal'. He is there for us, we just need to reach out a hand to build on that relationship.

I don't know what the angels have to do with it, no one claimed anything like that

[mattityahu]

Using the definition of omnipresence as "being able to be present anywhere in the space-time universe" it is essentially a consequence of omnipotence, which I doubt many Muslims disagree with?

[GreyKode]

I'm interested in this phrase "closer than your jugular vein". I believe this is only found in the Qur'an, 50:16, which says "We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein." The context seems to suggest that the phrase refers to Allah's omniscience and omnipresence. I'm not convinced that this teaches that Allah is personal - indeed 50:17 then says "Two recording (angels), at right and at left, are constantly recording." - I don't know of any genuine loving personal relationships where one person is constantly checking up on the other to make sure the other isn't sinning against them. The ones I know of involve trust.

There are other verses that indicate how ALLAH is close.
I donnow the number of the verse maybe someone can help you but it says
"And if my slaves ask you(mohammed) about me tell them that I am close and I listen to the prayers of one who calls upon me, so let them call upon me and believe in me that they may succeed"

I don't know of any genuine loving personal relationships where one person is constantly checking up on the other to make sure the other isn't sinning against them. The ones I know of involve trust

What do you mean by personal, like he's your friend, you can be upset from him and then expect him to come and say I am sorry.

[GreyKode]

Using the definition of omnipresence as "being able to be present anywhere in the space-time universe" it is essentially a consequence of omnipotence, which I doubt many Muslims disagree with?

Not necessarily, IMHO GOD is beyond time and space.

[mattityahu]

Does God being beyond time and space contradict his being able to enter into time and space?? :S

Not necessarily, IMHO GOD is beyond time and space.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Using the definition of omnipresence as "being able to be present anywhere in the space-time universe" it is essentially a consequence of omnipotence, which I doubt many Muslims disagree with?

Good point.

I was confused then and I remain confused today. Is there anyone here who can clarify whether or not omnipresence is in fact a characteristic of Allah according to Muslim belief?

Peace

[GreyKode]

Does his omnipotence stop him from turning into a mouse? (This is a serious question)

[mattityahu]

There are other verses that indicate how ALLAH is close.
I donnow the number of the verse maybe someone can help you but it says
"And if my slaves ask you(mohammed) about me tell them that I am close and I listen to the prayers of one who calls upon me, so let them call upon me and believe in me that they may succeed"



What do you mean by personal, like he's your friend, you can be upset from him and then expect him to come and say I am sorry.

Friendship would be a fair description of "personal relationship." Comforting one another is an obvious expression of friendship.

I find it interesting that Allah's listening to prayers is conditional on "calling upon" him (which means worship, does it not?). It's also conditional on "believing in him" - seems odd that this is mentioned as you would think it implicitly obvious that you believe in someone when you talk to them. "That they may succeed" suggests that the type of prayer in this verse has the function of asking for something good to happen to them - so essentially the verse means "if you believe in Allah and worship Him then he will listen to what you are asking for and you may get it". Overall it all seems quite impersonal and basically practical. But I would be interested in a different exegesis of the verse.

Yours,
M

[جوري]

time is an attribute of God, Time belongs to him.. there is evidence of time existing before the big bang, so we have been told in numerous articles..

This might shed light on your query:



Kitaab At-Tawheed, Chapter: 43
Whoever Curses Time Wrongs Allah
Allah (swt ), says:

" And they say: "There is nothing but our life in this world: We die and we live and nothing destroys us except time." And they have no knowledge of it, they only conjecture" (Qur'an 45:24)

Allah (swt ), Most Glorified, Most High, informs us in this verse about the disbelieving dahris1 from among the Arabs and others, who do not believe in any life, save the life of this world, nor in the Rabb and Creator, Allah (swt ), Most High. They believe that nothing causes death except the passage of time. Then Allah (swt ), Most Glorified, Most High, refutes their claims, saying that they have absolutely no evidence for what they claim, but instead, depend upon surmise and their own vain opinions.
Benefits Derived From This Verse

1. That attributing good or evil to the passage of time is a sign of atheism.
2. Confirmation of a life after death for mankind.
3. That ad-dahr (time) is not one of Allah's Names.

Relevance of This Verse to the Subject of the Chapter
That the verse rejects those who attribute events to time, for they commit a great wrong against Allah (swt ).
Relevance of This Verse to the Subject of Tawheed
That it rejects those who attribute events to time, because in so doing, they are ascribing a partner to Allah (swt ), for it is He, Alone Who decrees what will be and what will not be.

..ooOOoo..

It is authentically reported on the authority of Abu Hurairah (ra ) that the Prophet (saas ) said: "Allah (swt ), Most Blessed, Most High, says: "The son of Adam wrongs Me: He curses time, though I am time: In My Hands are all things and I cause the night to follow the day." 2 In another narration, He (saas ) says: "Do not curse time, for verily, time is Allah (swt )."
Allah (swt ), Most Glorified, Most High informs us in this Hadith Qudsi, that man commits a great wrong against Allah (swt ) when he curses time and attributes the occurrence of events to it, for Allah (swt ) is the Rabb of time and the Disposer of affairs and it is by His Qadr that events take place. Therefore to curse time is to curse the Owner of time.
In the second narration, the Prophet (saas ) forbids us from cursing time, saying that Allah (swt ) is the Owner of time and the Disposer of it and all events and affairs, and this is confirmation of what was reported in the preceding Hadith Qudsi.
Benefits Derived From This Hadith

1. The forbiddance of cursing time.
2. That no actions may be attributed to time.

Relevance of This Hadith to the Subject of the Chapter
That it proves that to curse time is to commit a great wrong against Allah (swt ).
Relevance of This Hadith to the Subject of Tawheed
That the Hadithproves that cursing time is a great wrong against Allah (swt ), because those who do so believe that it is time which causes events to take place and this is shirk in Tawheed Ar-Ruboobiyyah, for it is Allah (swt ), Alone Who determines events.
Footnotes
1. Dahris: An atheistic sect among the Arabs, their views are widely held in the West today: There is no God, no Resurrection, no punishment, no reward etc., etc.

2. Narrated by Bukhari.

[GreyKode]

Here's the exegesis:

When the companions of the prophet (pbuh) asked him about ALLAH, Is he far or near?
Can he hear us? etc etc..

So this verse was revealed to the prophet muhammad(pbuh) essentially to tell them what they need to know about his nature, That just keep your trust in him and always be aware of him watching over your actions, and call upon him and he will not turn you down.

Allah's listening to prayers is conditional on "calling upon" him

Calling here implies so many things, for example You have to believe in him and obey him, but if you are stubborn and arrogant and not submitting to his will then why would ALLAH(swt) grant you prayers.

It's also conditional on "believing in him" - seems odd that this is mentioned as you would think it implicitly obvious that you believe in someone when you talk to them.

:D, obviously, but it means to believe in him will all your heart and mind, not just words, to trust his judgement and obey him in all aspects.

[جوري]

On another level, it reminds us, in the words of another hadith qudsi, that "Neither my heavens nor My earth encompass Me, but the Heart of My believing servant does encompass Me." The Heart of the believing servant, emptied of the lower self, may be likened to the empty space within the Kacbah (a word which means "cube" in Arabic), within which every orientation faces the qibla, hence "And God's is east and west; and wherever you turn, there is the face of God. Behold, God is infinite, all-knowing" (Qur'ân 2:115).


The idea of a 'personal God' denotes to me, a God of an exclusive few. I believe that God is The God of all, even his non-believing servants..

I also remember another hadith, I can't source at the moment, There lived an idolater in the past who made an idol out of stone and would worship it everyday. He would call it upon it by saying "Ya Sanam." For seventy years, he worshiped this idol. One day by mistake he uttered "Ya Samad" instead of Ya Sanam. Samad is a name of Allah which means The Self Sufficient Master. Allah Ta'ala immediately replied back to this idolater by saying "I am present oh My slave." The angels asked Allah why He replied to him since he didn't even call upon Him intentionally. Allah told the angels that for seventy years I have been waiting for this servant of mine to turn towards Me!
If anyone can source this hadith for me I'd be much obliged..
nonetheless, I don't believe in a God just for Jews or a Human God or a spirit God.. I believe in a God well beyond our scope, else why would he need him if he were one of us or for a select few of us?

all the best

[mattityahu]

Does his omnipotence stop him from turning into a mouse? (This is a serious question)

OK...does his omnipotence stop him from doing something?? By definition, omnipotence is being able to do anything (or, more conservatively, anything which is logically possible).

Yours,
M

[جوري]

Ayat al-Kursi is the answer to your Q's

In the Name of Allâh, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

"Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede In His presence except As he permitteth? He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth. His throne doth extend Over the heavens And on earth, and He feeleth No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory)."
(This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat al-Kursi)

to listen:

http://www.mounthira.com/learning/ay...i/ayatulkursi/

[Hamayun]

OK...does his omnipotence stop him from doing something?? By definition, omnipotence is being able to do anything (or, more conservatively, anything which is logically possible).

Yours,
M

Define "logically"

Who's logic?

[glo]

Greetings,

As for the main topic - I have a hard enough time understanding what people mean when they talk about god. Start talking about a personal god and I have no idea what is being referred to.

Peace

Hi CZ

By 'God' I mean a divine force greater than ourselves.
By 'personal God' I mean a God who concerns himself with each of us individually ... in contrast, perhaps, to a deity who simply demands to be followed and obeyed.

Does that make it clearer?

Peace :)

[GreyKode]

OK...does his omnipotence stop him from doing something?? By definition, omnipotence is being able to do anything (or, more conservatively, anything which is logically possible).

Yours,
M

Exactly, you see where the problem is? Does God being omnipotent mean he can turn into a mouse? Yes, he can turn into a mouse, but isn't a mouse mortal, and can be easily killed. Yes!!!
But obviously contradicts the nature of GOD.

Therefore God by definition performs only GODLY things. So you can't argue that because GOD is omnipotent he can turn into a man.

And ALLAH(swt) knows best.

[Yanal]

:sl:
It's both as I see it because he does command loyalty and he does only answer the prayers of the people who love him,and thats that,it's an opinion question and thats my opinion as you can see it.

[mattityahu]

So you can't argue that because GOD is omnipotent he can turn into a man.

I've never argued that in this thread - the "omnipotence" thing has been a tangential matter. All you seem to be arguing is that there are things which are logically impossible for Allah/God, although I'm not exactly convinced by your reasoning. I guess the fundamental theological question is "Is Allah/God bound by logic?" but that is a discussion for another day!

Yours,
M

[Muhammad]

I'm interested in this phrase "closer than your jugular vein". I believe this is only found in the Qur'an, 50:16, which says "We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein." The context seems to suggest that the phrase refers to Allah's omniscience and omnipresence. I'm not convinced that this teaches that Allah is personal - indeed 50:17 then says "Two recording (angels), at right and at left, are constantly recording." - I don't know of any genuine loving personal relationships where one person is constantly checking up on the other to make sure the other isn't sinning against them. The ones I know of involve trust.

Allaah (swt) is not omnipresent (i.e. present everywhere at the same time). You can refer to the following threads for more information:

http://www.islamicboard.com/tawheed-...out-place.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/tawheed-...e-heavens.html



As for being a personal God, there are many verses of the Qur'an as well as Hadeeth that could be cited. Here are just some of them:


Verily, my Lord is Most Merciful, Most Loving. [11:90]

Truly, Allah is full of Kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind. [2:143]

Allah intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. [2:185]

And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islamic Monotheism) and ask Me for anything] I will respond to your (invocation).[40:60]

And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) concerning Me, then (answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright. [2:186]

He it is Who sends Salat (His blessings) on you, and His angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive you), that He may bring you out from darkness (of disbelief and polytheism) into light (of Belief and Islamic Monotheism). And He is Ever Most Merciful to the believers.[33:43]

Allah mentions some of the favors He has done for His creatures, such as creating the heavens as a protective ceiling and the earth as a bed. He also sends down rain from the sky and, in its aftermath brings forth a variety of vegetation, fruits and plants of different colors, shapes, tastes, scents and uses. Allah also made the ships sail on the surface of the water by His command and He made the sea able to carry these ships in order that travelers can transfer from one area to another to transport goods. Allah also created the rivers that flow through the earth from one area to another as provision for the servants which they use to drink and irrigate, and for other benefits, [...]

Allah said next,

(And He gave you of all that you asked for), He has prepared for you all that you need in all conditions, and what you ask Him to provide for you,

(and if you [try to] count the blessings of Allah, never will you be able to count them.) Allah states that the servants are never able to count His blessings, let alone thank Him duly for them

Some Hadeeth:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said:
Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.
(Bukhari)

Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, 'If Allah loves a person, He calls Gabriel, saying, 'Allah loves so and so, O Gabriel love him' So Gabriel would love him and then would make an announcement in the Heavens: 'Allah has loved so and-so therefore you should love him also.' So all the dwellers of the Heavens would love him, and then he is granted the pleasure of the people on the earth.' (Bukhari)

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) said, "Allah has divided mercy into one hundred parts; and He retained with Him ninety-nine parts, and sent down to earth one part. Through this one part creatures deal with one another with compassion, so much so that an animal lifts its hoof over its young lest it should hurt it". [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

On the authority of Abu Harayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (PBUH) said: Allah the Almighty said:
I am as My servant thinks I am (i.e. forgiveness and acceptance of repentance by the Almighty is subject to His servant truly believing that He is forgiving and merciful). I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed. (Bukhari, Muslim)

On the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifari (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (PBUH) is that among the sayings he relates from his Lord (may He be glorified) is that He said:
O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you, O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other that blame no one but himself. (Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah)

Peace.

[mattityahu]

Thanks, Muhammad, for your post. May I first just comment that my usage of "omnipresent" is referring to Allah's being able to be present anywhere (not that he is always everywhere, although my definition doesn't exclude this possiblility). Second, could you perhaps comment on your understanding of "closer than your jugular vein" and what that means?

Many thanks,
M

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

I struggle to understand how Allah can be personal while at the same time the doctrine of Tawheed being true. For example, if Allah is fundamentally relational, who did he relate to before he created other beings? Is Allah reliant upon his creation in order to be loving, merciful, etc?

It seems you have not understood the doctrine of Tawheed. Allaah (swt) is self-sufficient and not at all reliant on anyone or anything.

OK...does his omnipotence stop him from doing something?? By definition, omnipotence is being able to do anything (or, more conservatively, anything which is logically possible).

These issues are actually taking the thread off a tangent. Your answer can be found here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-than-him.html

I find it interesting that Allah's listening to prayers is conditional on "calling upon" him (which means worship, does it not?). It's also conditional on "believing in him" - seems odd that this is mentioned as you would think it implicitly obvious that you believe in someone when you talk to them. "That they may succeed" suggests that the type of prayer in this verse has the function of asking for something good to happen to them - so essentially the verse means "if you believe in Allah and worship Him then he will listen to what you are asking for and you may get it". Overall it all seems quite impersonal and basically practical. But I would be interested in a different exegesis of the verse.

First and foremost, you cannot read an english translation of any verse and make your own exegesis of it. The Qur'an is in Arabic, and if you want to look deeper into the meanings of words, it makes no sense whatsoever to look at the translated english ones which often don't convey much of what is there.

On the topic of Allaah listening to prayers - does it not make sense that for Him to help us, we should first do as He commanded? Nevertheless, out of Allaah (swt)'s infinite mercy, He still feeds, clothes and shelters much of mankind who don't even believe in Him. Some even go as far as to hate Him and spread evil yet He still gives them so many things. Did they ever call on Him? No one is more patient than Allah when hearing abuse. They attribute a son to Him, while He grants them sustenance and health. Moreover, Allaah (swt) even answers the sincere supplication of disbelieving people when they call on Him at the time of disaster, such as drowning in the sea.

Peace.

[mattityahu]

Greetings,
It seems you have not understood the doctrine of Tawheed. Allaah (swt) is self-sufficient and not at all reliant on anyone or anything.

These issues are actually taking the thread off a tangent. Your answer can be found here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-than-him.html

First and foremost, you cannot read an english translation of any verse and make your own exegesis of it. The Qur'an is in Arabic, and if you want to look deeper into the meanings of words, it makes no sense whatsoever to look at the translated english ones which often don't convey much of what is there.

On the topic of Allaah listening to prayers - does it not make sense that for Him to help us, we should first do as He commanded? Nevertheless, out of Allaah (swt)'s infinite mercy, He still feeds, clothes and shelters much of mankind who don't even believe in Him. Some even go as far as to hate Him and spread evil yet He still gives them so many things. Did they ever call on Him? No one is more patient than Allah when hearing abuse. They attribute a son to Him, while He grants them sustenance and health. Moreover, Allaah (swt) even answers the sincere supplication of disbelieving people when they call on Him at the time of disaster, such as drowning in the sea.

Peace.

Thanks for this. I shouldn't have used 'exegesis' at all in my post - I stand corrected - I should have said "understanding" instead. Could you show me where my understanding of the text has gone wrong? Thanks.

As for the doctrine of Tawheed, I was attempting to go a bit deeper than just "Allah is self-sufficient" etc. Specifically, if one of His eternal attributes is 'loving' then how is He loving before creation? The only way I can understand love is when there is an object to love - perhaps you can help me with this.

Thanks again,
M

[Muhammad]

Greetings mattityahu,

Thank you for your patience. :)

Second, could you perhaps comment on your understanding of "closer than your jugular vein" and what that means?

I am not qualified to give my own understanding, but below is what I found in one of the famous exegesis books (Tafseer Ibn Katheer):

Allah encompasses and watches all of Man's Activity

Allah the Exalted affirms His absolute dominance over mankind, being their Creator and the Knower of everything about them. Allah the Exalted has complete knowledge of all thoughts that cross the mind of man, be they good or evil. In the Sahih, the Messenger of Allah said,

(Verily, Allah the Exalted has forgiven my Ummah (Muslims) for what they talk (think) to themselves about, as long as they do not utter or implement it.)

The statement of Allah the Exalted,

(And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.) means, His angels are nearer to man than his jugular vein. Those who explained `We' in the Ayah to mean `Our knowledge,' have done so to avoid falling into the idea of incarnation or indwelling; but these two creeds are false according to the consensus of Muslims. Allah is praised and glorified, He is far hallowed beyond what they ascribe to Him. The words of this Ayah do not need this explanation (that `We' refers to `Allah's knowledge'), for Allah did not say, `and I am closer to him than his jugular vein.' Rather, He said, (And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. ) just as He said in the case of dying persons,

(But We are nearer to him than you, but you see not.) (56:85), in reference to His angels (who take the souls). Allah the Exalted the Blessed said,

(Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it.) (15:9) Therefore, the angels brought down the revelation, the Qur'an, by the leave of Allah, the Exalted, the Most Honored. Thus, the angels are closer to man than his own jugular vein, by the power and leave of Allah.

http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=50&tid=50110

Thanks for this. I shouldn't have used 'exegesis' at all in my post - I stand corrected - I should have said "understanding" instead. Could you show me where my understanding of the text has gone wrong? Thanks.

As I am not qualified to interpret the Qur'an myself, I cannot say much except that we are limited with regards to the depth of our understanding of the Qur'an when we cannot speak Arabic or have not studied the sciences behind exegesis. For more information, you can refer to this post.

As for the doctrine of Tawheed, I was attempting to go a bit deeper than just "Allah is self-sufficient" etc. Specifically, if one of His eternal attributes is 'loving' then how is He loving before creation? The only way I can understand love is when there is an object to love - perhaps you can help me with this.

The problem with going deeper into such issues is that it leads to people going astray. By delving into deep questions and asking questions after questions, some people have become so confused as to deny the reality of God Himself and accepted many strange notions that go against Islamic teachings, such as viewing Paradise and Hell as no more than parables for the masses to understand and having no reality beyond people’s minds! This is why it is more appropriate for a Muslim to accept the Names and Attributes that Allaah (swt) has taught us, without asking "how" or likening them to His creation. We can not fully comprehend Allaah (swt), therefore it is pointless to pursue deeper questions that will not further understanding, only create more confusion instead. The following thread may give you an idea of how strict the scholars are concerning the Attributes of Allaah (swt):

http://www.islamicboard.com/tawheed-...es-allaah.html

And Allaah the Most Exalted knows best.

Peace.

[mattityahu]

The problem with going deeper into such issues is that it leads to people going astray. By delving into deep questions and asking questions after questions, some people have become so confused as to deny the reality of God Himself and accepted many strange notions that go against Islamic teachings, such as viewing Paradise and Hell as no more than parables for the masses to understand and having no reality beyond people’s minds! This is why it is more appropriate for a Muslim to accept the Names and Attributes that Allaah (swt) has taught us, without asking "how" or likening them to His creation. We can not fully comprehend Allaah (swt), therefore it is pointless to pursue deeper questions that will not further understanding, only create more confusion instead. The following thread may give you an idea of how strict the scholars are concerning the Attributes of Allaah (swt):

http://www.islamicboard.com/tawheed-...es-allaah.html

And Allaah the Most Exalted knows best.

Peace.

Forgive me for being pithy, but I believe this is known as "indoctrination". Is this the view of most Islamic leaders?

Yours,
M

[جوري]

Is Matt and Hugo one in the same?
if indoctrination is the name of the game -- then a self-assessment is in order!

[mattityahu]

Is Matt and Hugo one in the same?
if indoctrination is the name of the game -- then a self-assessment is in order!

Sorry, what??

M

[Muezzin]

As for the doctrine of Tawheed, I was attempting to go a bit deeper than just "Allah is self-sufficient" etc. Specifically, if one of His eternal attributes is 'loving' then how is He loving before creation? The only way I can understand love is when there is an object to love - perhaps you can help me with this.

Thanks again,
M

Semantics.

If a tree in the forest falls with nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If you try to fail and suceed, which have you done?

Who stole the cookies from the cookie jar?

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Forgive me for being pithy, but I believe this is known as "indoctrination". Is this the view of most Islamic leaders?

In other words, brainwashing. Well that's an expected comment from people who don't have faith. There are many things that we will simply not understand due to our limited capacity as created beings. Do you really expect us to comprehend the Creator of the heavens and the earth? The One who is the First and the Last? The One whom vision cannot grasp? The One who has knowledge of whatever there is in the land and in the sea - be it a leaf that falls or a grain in the darkness of the earth? Surely, it is illogical to keep questioning something that one is incapable of fully comprehending. We know that God is capable of doing all things, even if we can't understand how it actually occurs.

[GreyKode]

Honestly brother Muhammad's response is as honest and concise as it gets. May ALLAH(swt) bless him.
He's simply giving you the Islamic view will all honesty. And I believe what he said is 100% true, pondering on the nature of GOD is truly no more than a mental exercise in futility.However hard you try whatever you gain in the end will be an incomplete insufficient image of him be it, friend, master etc..

[mattityahu]

Greetings,

In other words, brainwashing. Well that's an expected comment from people who don't have faith. There are many things that we will simply not understand due to our limited capacity as created beings. Do you really expect us to comprehend the Creator of the heavens and the earth? The One who is the First and the Last? The One whom vision cannot grasp? The One who has knowledge of whatever there is in the land and in the sea - be it a leaf that falls or a grain in the darkness of the earth? Surely, it is illogical to keep questioning something that one is incapable of fully comprehending. We know that God is capable of doing all things, even if we can't understand how it actually occurs.

Well, (getting back to topic slightly!) if we can have a personal relationship with God then I don't see why not. Of course you would never understand him fully (since God is infinite) but I can't think of any questions I could ask of God which he couldn't answer. Is it illogical to always pursue the truth? Should I just give up trying to understand Islam since I'll never fully understand it?

Yours,
M

[Yanal]

Well, (getting back to topic slightly!) if we can have a personal relationship with God then I don't see why not. Of course you would never understand him fully (since God is infinite) but I can't think of any questions I could ask of God which he couldn't answer. Is it illogical to always pursue the truth? Should I just give up trying to understand Islam since I'll never fully understand it?

Yours,
M

:sl:
Yes all muslims always try to learn more and thats a better deed then praying all night for Allah.

[mattityahu]

:sl:
Yes all muslims always try to learn more and thats a better deed then praying all night for Allah.

So, Alpha Jr, do you disagree with the other guys who say it's a waste of time?

Yours,
M

[AntiKarateKid]

This thread again is misleading. First you didnt define what "personal" meant which could explain the differences in responses from these Muslims you asked.

You got a question about Allah? Look up his names!

Allah is al-Wadud (the loving)
Allah is al-Wasi (all embracing)
Allah is al-Wali (the protecting friend)

Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.


Allah is a personal friend of the righteous only. He is a personal enemy of the evildoers. Case closed.

[Yanal]

:sl:
Yes I disagree with people that searching for knowledge is a waste of time instead it is better then praying all night as I said before. It is worth it because on the day of judgement there will be a question "How did you spend your time" and if you searched for knowledge your answer will be praiseworthy but if not..... Do you follow me on this M?

[mattityahu]

:sl:
Yes I disagree with people that searching for knowledge is a waste of time instead it is better then praying all night as I said before. It is worth it because on the day of judgement there will be a question "How did you spend your time" and if you searched for knowledge your answer will be praiseworthy but if not..... Do you follow me on this M?

I agree, though that doesn't seem to be Allah's expectation of you. Seems like you are judged on whether you have done enough good deeds not on whether you searched for knowledge.

Yours,
M

[Yanal]

:sl:
Yes Allah doesnt expect this from us but whats the harm in doing so? Rather search for knowledge then be a lazy person and watch Television.

[mattityahu]

This thread again is misleading. First you didnt define what "personal" meant which could explain the differences in responses from these Muslims you asked.

You got a question about Allah? Look up his names!

Allah is al-Wadud (the loving)
Allah is al-Wasi (all embracing)
Allah is al-Wali (the protecting friend)

Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.


Allah is a personal friend of the righteous only. He is a personal enemy of the evildoers. Case closed.

The term was loosely defined in the opening post. Care to define personal for us?

Thanks,
M

[جوري]

personal

10 entries found.

1. 1personal (adjective)
2. 2personal (noun)
3. personal computer
4. personal digital assistant
5. personal effects
6. personal equation
7. personal foul
8. personal pronoun
9. personal property
10. personal tax

Main Entry:1per·son·al

Pronunciation: \ˈpərs-nəl, ˈpər-sə-nəl\ Function:adjective Etymology:Middle English, from Anglo-French personel, from Late Latin personalis, from Latin personaDate:14th century 1: of, relating to, or affecting a particular person : private, individual <personal ambition> <personal financial gain>2 a: done in person without the intervention of another ; also : proceeding from a single person b: carried on between individuals directly <a personal interview>3: relating to the person or body4: relating to an individual or an individual's character, conduct, motives, or private affairs often in an offensive manner <a personal insult>5 a: being rational and self-conscious <personal, responsive government is still possible — John Fischer> b: having the qualities of a person rather than a thing or abstraction <a personal devil>6: of, relating to, or constituting personal property <a personal estate>7: denoting grammatical person8: intended for private use or use by one person <a personal stereo>

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Well, (getting back to topic slightly!) if we can have a personal relationship with God then I don't see why not. Of course you would never understand him fully (since God is infinite) but I can't think of any questions I could ask of God which he couldn't answer.

So is your definition of a 'personal God', a God that allows us to keep questioning Him; a God that is so personal (and perhaps at this point less godly) such that we should be able to ask Him any question and get an instant reply? It is not our place to decide what God should or shouldn't do, or what He should or shouldn't tell us. It is sufficient as believers to know that whatever is for our benefit, He has explained it. And whatever He has kept from us, it isn't necessary for us to know. Moreover, if one examines the issue, he will find there to be a wealth of information that God has already told us about Him to help us understand what we can. From His Names and Attributes, we can learn and apply so much without having to ask unnecessary questions. Among those who have fallen in this trap, there are some who have gone to the extreme of denying Attributes, simply because they questioned too far and led themselves astray.

Is it illogical to always pursue the truth? Should I just give up trying to understand Islam since I'll never fully understand it?

There is a difference between seeking beneficial knowledge and knowledge that has no benefit. For a person who is sincere in his search, this is usually straightforward. Ultimately, it is Allaah (swt) who guides.

Peace.

[mattityahu]

Greetings,

So is your definition of a 'personal God', a God that allows us to keep questioning Him; a God that is so personal (and perhaps at this point less godly) such that we should be able to ask Him any question and get an instant reply? It is not our place to decide what God should or shouldn't do, or what He should or shouldn't tell us. It is sufficient as believers to know that whatever is for our benefit, He has explained it. And whatever He has kept from us, it isn't necessary for us to know. Moreover, if one examines the issue, he will find there to be a wealth of information that God has already told us about Him to help us understand what we can. From His Names and Attributes, we can learn and apply so much without having to ask unnecessary questions. Among those who have fallen in this trap, there are some who have gone to the extreme of denying Attributes, simply because they questioned too far and led themselves astray.

There is a difference between seeking beneficial knowledge and knowledge that has no benefit. For a person who is sincere in his search, this is usually straightforward. Ultimately, it is Allaah (swt) who guides.

Peace.

So knowing more about Allah isn't beneficial? I wouldn't expect an instant reply, but I would like to think that a personal God would reveal himself slowly and lovingly to me so that I might love Him even more because I know just how perfect He is.

Yours,
M

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

So knowing more about Allah isn't beneficial? I wouldn't expect an instant reply, but I would like to think that a personal God would reveal himself slowly and lovingly to me so that I might love Him even more because I know just how perfect He is.

Now you're distorting what I said. Knowledge of Allaah (swt) is among the best knowledge to be gained. But there's a clear difference between beneficial knowledge and going beyond the limits into the realm of futile questions.

God already has revealed His message - its a universal message for each and every human being. If you're that sincere in seeking God, you should pick up the Qur'an and experience just how personal He is.

Peace. :)

[mattityahu]

Greetings,

Now you're distorting what I said. Knowledge of Allaah (swt) is among the best knowledge to be gained. But there's a clear difference between beneficial knowledge and going beyond the limits into the realm of futile questions.

God already has revealed His message - its a universal message for each and every human being. If you're that sincere in seeking God, you should pick up the Qur'an and experience just how personal He is.

The problem is that what you think are futile questions I think are basic questions about God's character. I'm quite happy for someone to say "Islam doesn't teach us about this" and I will embrace its mystery. It does make me question, however, the validity of Allah's personality and whether a personal relationship is really possible.

Yours,
M

[GreyKode]

I'm quite happy for someone to say "Islam doesn't teach us about this" and I will embrace its mystery.

Excuse but...
Are you imagining things?Or are you playing stupid?
Why is it imprinted in your mind things like "Islam doesn't teach us about this", "Islam makes you not ask about things"?

[mattityahu]

Excuse but...
Are you imagining things?Or are you playing stupid?
Why isn't imprinted in your mind things like "Islam doesn't teach us about this", "Islam makes you not ask about things"?

It seemed from the various responses I was getting that some questions are "futile" - seeming to suggest that there is no reason for asking such questions.

If I'm being unfair to previous posters then please correct me. But I seem to have met a lot of resistance to asking this question for one reason or another.

Yours,
M

[GreyKode]

Ok...listen, the relationship between a muslim and ALLAH(swt) too profound to be expressed in words, so if you want to understand it pick up a Qur'an like brother Muhammad
suggested and try to find it yourself.

[mattityahu]

Ok...listen, the relationship between a muslim and ALLAH(swt) too profound to be expressed in words, so if you want to understand it pick up a Qur'an like brother Muhammad
suggested and try to find it yourself.

I'm not sure I understand...too profound to be expressed in words, so I should read a book consisting mostly (I'm guessing) of words. Moreover, I'm not an Arabic speaker, and English translations (so I've heard) don't live up to the profundity of the Qur'an in Arabic. So what am I to do? Be settled with my own mediocre understanding of what the Qur'an teaches or seek the understanding of others who know better?

Yours,
M

[جوري]

given how many converts there are to Islam (SEE BELOW) I'd say all one really needs to do is pick up the book and read it, rather than waste his time and everyone else's on cliff notes?

all the best

Media Tags are no longer supported

Angst-Ridden Germans Look for Answers -- And Find Them in the Koran
By Lutz Ackermann

The number of Germans who have converted to Islam has increased fourfold within one year -- despite the negative perception of Islam among the general public.


DPA
A man praying in a Berlin mosque. The number of Muslim converts in Germany increased fourfold last year.
In terms of his appearance, Kai Lühr seems out of place. Lühr, who is kneeling between bearded men in white robes and bowing in the direction of Mecca, is clean-shaven and wearing jeans and a gray jacket. He might pass as a member of the Christian congregation next door, sent here to cultivate inter-faith dialogue. But he clearly knows the Islamic prayer ritual too well for that to be the case. He bends over and prays in Arabic: "Allah listens to him who praises Him. Our Lord, to You is due all praise." Lühr bends over, stands up again, takes another bow -- up and down, 33 times.

Kai Lühr, a practising doctor, converted to Islam with his wife two and a half years ago. Since then their names have been Kai Ali Rashid and Katrin Aisha Lühr. The 43-year-old regularly attends Friday prayers in the courtyard mosque in Frechen, near Cologne, where he prays together with Moroccans, Palestinians and two other German converts -- a former boxer and an engineer. "You'll meet a few German-born Muslims in any mosque these days," says Lühr.

A soon-to-be-published study on Islamic life in Germany confirms the Cologne doctor's impression. The study sheds light on a phenomenon that may seem surprising given the image of Islam in Germany, where the religion is often associated with terrorism, forced marriages and honor killings: In Germany, some 4,000 people converted to Islam between July 2004 and June 2005. The study, which was financed by the Interior Ministry and carried out by the Soest-based Muslim institute Islam Archive Germany, reveals that the number of converts increased four-fold in comparison to the previous year.

The figure of 4,000 conversions means the usual explanations for why Germans convert are no longer sufficient. The annual number of converts remained constant -- at about 300 -- until three years ago. The converts were mainly women "who married a Muslim partner," Muhammad Salim Abdullah from the Islam Archive points out. Today, people are increasingly converting "of their own free will," he says, adding that the converts still include many women, but also plenty of university graduates -- middle-class citizens like Kai Lühr.

Baptized and raised as a Christian, Lühr studied at university and then opened a general medical practice with an additional specialization in naturopathic medicine. His income was good, he married Katrin, a professional dancer, and they moved into a loft apartment together. However, at some stage the couple realized something was missing. "When critically-ill people come into my practice after already having been sent from pillar to post, it makes you despair sometimes," Lühr says. He developed an interest in Christianity, Buddhism and the Dalai Lama. But he found no answers.

"People want to be different."

Lühr's conversion process seems typical. Many converts were originally practising Christians who began having doubts about their religion at some point, says Mohammed Herzog, a Berlin imam who used to be a Protestant minister until he converted to Islam in 1979. The number of German-speaking converts in his mosque has also risen noticeably, Herzog says. Some 10 years ago, the annual number of converts was about 50 -- now it is double that. "Only rarely do the converts include people who were complete atheists before," Herzog says.

Monika Wohlrab-Sahr, a sociologist of religion, has investigated converts in Germany and in the United States. She says the "overcoming of a personal crisis" is often a prime motive, frequently in combination with a search for the Other: "People want to be different," she says.

While fundamentalist Christianty also offers these possibilities, Islam allows a person to stand out from the crowd to a greater degree, in Wohlrab-Sahr's opinion. Moreover, Islam has become a perennial theme in the media thanks to today's frequent debates on Muslims. "Islam is more visible as a genuine alternative," Wohlrab-Sahr says.

It's hard to find a common denominator for what exactly makes Islam so attractive to people from a Christian background. Salim Abdullah speaks of "defiant reactions" in the face of the constant criticism brought against Islam, although he's also familiar with converts who appreciate the "clear rules for behavior" provided by the Koran. Lühr, who always carries a prayer mat in the trunk of his Alfa Romeo GT, laments the "decline in values" that Western society, in his view, has suffered: "In Islam, values still count for something," he says.


Sometimes the newly-acquired Muslim values can clash with Western principles, in the opinion of some. The key question is how literally Islam's holy book is interpreted. "Converts tend to practise their religion in a more puritanical fashion," says Wohlrab-Sahr. "Born Muslims are often more liberal."

A Hamburg lawyer's office provides an intriguing example of what she means. Thirty-six-year-old Nils Bergner prays to Allah five times a day. The German convert works together with a Turkish friend Ali Özkan, also a Muslim. The two visit the mosque together, but it's only in the German's office that the prayer rug is regularly rolled out. "I just can't manage it," says Özkan. "The first prayer is at 6:00 a.m. -- much too early."

Recently, they were invited to dinner. The desert was tiramisu. Bergner hesitated because of the alcohol in the recipe. "I said, you can't be serious," Özkan recalls. "Go ahead and eat it, I said. It's just a flavoring." But Bergner left the tiramisu untouched.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...460364,00.html

NBC NEWS:20000 americans Convert To ISLAM Each Year!
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/2PS2creVhaM



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Yusuf Estes - Priests and Preachers accepting Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/E6K0627FiCk



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Many Latinos Convert Daily To ISLAM .. Live From Venezuela!
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/1XyrxzQIN9w

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Every day many Germans convert to ISLAM :
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/34kjurzK500

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Holland TV:ISLAM fastest spreading Faith among Youth Germans
www.youtube.com/watch/v/WAXXN6XOnzQ

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Thousands of Danish convert to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/kru6XQ8CT48

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TV Report Thousands Hispanics Converting To ISLAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/yDwGsmTx3D4

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German Scientist & his wife,clinic assistant convert 2 islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/uP-2IqH_l4c

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European Scientist converts to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/0IspK651RpY

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Dr. Ian Weber from England converts to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/gUZR6XwU8Pw

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science students turn to islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/y3_JYk4Bo4Y

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TV_ReportChristians Convert To ISLAM in France
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/Dhu0eEuIsGg

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Turning Muslim in Texas - People reverting to Islam in Texas
http://video.google.com/videoplay...

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Angela Collins - Muslim Convert weeks after 9/11 Incident
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/j6PJgJdEzNM

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NEW MUSLIM Woman from austrailia CONVERT :
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/-baqULx5IBU

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The Choice - A Story of New American Muslim Convert
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/CML3CRPMefA

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Irish and "loving Islam" Convert to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/dIc5oFAva-4

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Jewish To Islam convert
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/KcBiJnLjwVw

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Changes after Islam

www.youtube.com/watch/v/IlOuITPE6kE
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/1qpQvpmEqkc

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Why do they accept the Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/aJ3TGAnFc-U

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135 Convert to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/36Glj_FAGcw



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Convert to Islam from Canada
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/uKPer2fma9U

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Revert to Islam - Brian From Christianity (Convert to Islam)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/bI_YVnD9UvI

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Many Jew and Christian Families Convert To ISLAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/84ZtVLI5kXM

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British Catholic Priest Converted To ISLAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/pn0iPlWQNlI

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Greece Men Convert to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/IlAjkuECrHc

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Orange
Dubai, UAE Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#2 Feb 3, 2008
MUCH MORE IN HERE

Convert to Islam from Hinduism
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/zePqNxz895U

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Christian Convert to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/HDkW2Y35mKQ

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Twenty two/22 Brothers and sisters convert to (Islam)....
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/XQBn6loQTdY

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Two british Women of different colours convert to Islam
www.youtube.com/watch/v/uEfMcPQfv7w

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German convert to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/9U1zNXXQA6Q

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Three French Sisters Convert To ISLAM :
www.youtube.com/watch/v/JiksSo0lwL4

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Sister Yvonne Ridley Becomes Muslim Islam Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/aOe5s5hP4Gw

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WHY Christians German Lady convert to ISLAM, SEE VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/afFv22Wsd5A

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Germany Convert To ISLAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/os4vUxfJizU

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Jerome - How I wrestled my way to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/b2YZGGDGUWE

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The story of a German convert to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/gjRjzTAk-RQ

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Revert to Islam - Abdus Salam (Convert to Islam)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/VqlilLIQJRE

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Revert to Islam - Maryam Noor (Convert From Christianity)....
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ig0N9aRT0Hc

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Germans convert to Islam on german TV
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/nFqj3xPKc88

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TV Report Rechtsanwalt konvertiert zum ISLAM :
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/_4LrIv6kK9o

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JoleneA Southern Baptist Converts to Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/RHQOx12-WJU

[aadil77]

I'm not sure I understand...too profound to be expressed in words, so I should read a book consisting mostly (I'm guessing) of words. Moreover, I'm not an Arabic speaker, and English translations (so I've heard) don't live up to the profundity of the Qur'an in Arabic. So what am I to do? Be settled with my own mediocre understanding of what the Qur'an teaches or seek the understanding of others who know better?

Yours,
M

No actually If you are sincere like brother Muhammad has said before, then Allah will give you the understanding you are looking for from the Quran as yes it can not be expressed in words. So go ahead read an english translation (you don't have to be an arabic speaker), but read it with a sincere mind and heart not trying desperately to find defects in it, try the pickthall translation it may appeal to you. Then after I'm sure everyone here would like to hear your feedback

peace

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

The problem is that what you think are futile questions I think are basic questions about God's character.
I'm quite happy for someone to say "Islam doesn't teach us about this" and I will embrace its mystery. It does make me question, however, the validity of Allah's personality and whether a personal relationship is really possible.

The questions you were asking were far from basic. You yourself admitted that you were "attempting to go a bit deeper". Of course, one can find countless works explaining Islamic creed and elaborating upon the Names and Attributes of Allaah (swt). To go deeper in the sense of furthering understanding in this regard is perfectly fine. But once we start getting all philosophical and regurgitating the same old nonsensical questions like, "can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?", then clearly there's little benefit to be gained, much less elaboration on God's personal relationship with His slaves.

If you are seeking information about Allaah - the Qur'an is full of it. And if you're truly interested in the personal relationship between God and man, you can refer to the numerous verses of the Qur'an and citations of Hadeeth given earlier.

To clarify once again, everything for our benefit has been conveyed in Islam. Nothing has been left out.

Peace.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Hi CZ

By 'God' I mean a divine force greater than ourselves.
By 'personal God' I mean a God who concerns himself with each of us individually ... in contrast, perhaps, to a deity who simply demands to be followed and obeyed.

Does that make it clearer?

Peace :)

It does a little. Thanks for trying to help.

I'm still stuck on the word "divine" - I can't see how it refers to anything real. I suppose it's allied to the fact that I see no compelling reason to believe that god is real.

First and foremost, you cannot read an english translation of any verse and make your own exegesis of it. The Qur'an is in Arabic, and if you want to look deeper into the meanings of words, it makes no sense whatsoever to look at the translated english ones which often don't convey much of what is there.

Why should it be necessary to learn Arabic in order to understand god's ultimate message to humanity?

The problem with going deeper into such issues is that it leads to people going astray. By delving into deep questions and asking questions after questions, some people have become so confused as to deny the reality of God Himself and accepted many strange notions that go against Islamic teachings, such as viewing Paradise and Hell as no more than parables for the masses to understand and having no reality beyond people’s minds! This is why it is more appropriate for a Muslim to accept the Names and Attributes that Allaah (swt) has taught us, without asking "how" or likening them to His creation. We can not fully comprehend Allaah (swt), therefore it is pointless to pursue deeper questions that will not further understanding, only create more confusion instead.

In other words, the more you think, the less likely you are to believe.

Peace

[Muhammad]

Greetings czgibson,

Why should it be necessary to learn Arabic in order to understand god's ultimate message to humanity?

That's not what I said. I was referring to the necessity of the Arabic language to "look deeper into the meanings of words". It's necessary as a tool for Qur'anic exegesis. And the point is explained much more fully in another post here.

In other words, the more you think, the less likely you are to believe.

Not at all. My words were regarding specific branches of knowledge regarding the unseen. The act of thinking is actually something the Qur'an encourages mankind to do.

Peace. :)

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Greetings czgibson,

That's not what I said.

It's exactly what you said. :hmm:

Not at all. My words were regarding specific branches of knowledge regarding the unseen. The act of thinking is actually something the Qur'an encourages mankind to do.

You say that, but then why would you write a paragraph so hostile to free inquiry, as you did in the post I quoted?

It's more of the same "don't ask questions; just believe" attitude that religions have been plaguing humanity with for far too long now.

Peace

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

It's exactly what you said. :hmm:

No, it clearly isn't. There's a difference between receiving guidance from the Qur'an at a basic level, and having in-depth knowledge of it so as to derive rulings and benefit further. If you read the post I linked to, it explains it in more detail.

You say that, but then why would you write a paragraph so hostile to free inquiry, as you did in the post I quoted?

As I said, I was referring to a specific case. You are making the mistake of applying it in a general way. Regarding the issue I was referring to, mankind is limited in his ability to understand God with complete knowledge. Therefore, "free inquiry" is of little relevance here.

And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little. [17:85]

It's more of the same "don't ask questions; just believe" attitude that religions have been plaguing humanity with for far too long now.

Islam is the middle way - it neither calls for excessive questioning whereby we can negate our very existence, nor closes the door to thinking and intellect as other religions may do or have done.

Peace.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I'm afraid I don't find your replies convincing in the least. I don't know how any intelligent person could agree with the views you've expressed.

I've known you through your posts for several years now, Muhammad, and I know you're not without intelligence. I can't understand why you would willingly seal off part of your inquiring mind and decide to ask questions about some things but not others.

This has all gone off the topic, so I apologise for that.

Peace

[جوري]

Am I missing something.. what part of his or anyone's inquiring mind would have to be sealed to accept something?

further, are there any Occidentals on board to explain to us the missing parts, now that we have minds sealed?

all the best

[Muhammad]

Greetings czgibson,

I'm afraid I don't find your replies convincing in the least. I don't know how any intelligent person could agree with the views you've expressed.

I'm surprised you should say that - I thought it was blatantly clear, to be honest. Are you suggesting that a person with no knowledge of Arabic can benefit from the Qur'an to the same degree as someone who does?

I've known you through your posts for several years now, Muhammad, and I know you're not without intelligence. I can't understand why you would willingly seal off part of your inquiring mind and decide to ask questions about some things but not others.

So intelligent people are those who think they can understand God, an infinite being, through their own logic and reasoning?

This has all gone off the topic, so I apologise for that.

That's alright - it was well off-topic before you arrived. :hiding:

Peace.

[AntiKarateKid]

Greetings,

I'm afraid I don't find your replies convincing in the least. I don't know how any intelligent person could agree with the views you've expressed.

I've known you through your posts for several years now, Muhammad, and I know you're not without intelligence. I can't understand why you would willingly seal off part of your inquiring mind and decide to ask questions about some things but not others.

This has all gone off the topic, so I apologise for that.

Peace

We know basic things about Allah that his Prophets revealed such as monotheism, mercy, etc. We even have 99 names for him which describe every RELEVANT attribute for us.

We use our mind for understanding the logic behind these things.

Other aspect such as what exactly Allah is, out Prophets have not told us that simply because it is behind human comprehension. WHen you try and think about it, all you will find is ideas from your won imagination which is why we must be careful not to go there lest we destroy ourselves.

[جوري]

Fact is 'thinking intelligent atheists' haven't offered us any workable answer when it comes to the origins of the world, let alone responses to initial drive to set it all in motion, to expect us to get that sort of a reply from theists..
what can we possibly label this under? a double blind hypocrisy doesn't nullify itself!


all the best