Did Jesus(phuh) really say 'im the last prophet' dont believe any, after me?

I have a christian friend who told me that Jesus (phuh) said that im the last prophet...dont believe in any after me... Also.. that jesus said the devil can disguise himself as an angel...and guide people on the wrong path..

I told him 100% this wasnt the case with Muhammad (phuh) as no angel can give out such a message, (if the angle was disguised as a devil).

Quran quotations would be helpful in this discussion..

Thanks brothers

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
For such are false Apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I am not aware of any scripture where Jesus said explicitly that he was the last prophet or that he said do not believe any after me.
Have your friend cite the scripture. He can't.

You should question your friend on why he believes that line applies to Mohammed (P) but not the self-proclaimed apostle Saul/Paul?..

Also the Jews contend the same thing, that Zacharia is the last prophet and that there are no other scriptures past their book, which ironically amongst themselves they are also divided on, for instance the Karaites are a Jewish sect that recognizes only the Hebrew Scriptures as the source of divinely inspired legislation and denies the authority of the postbiblical tradition of the Talmud..

Everyone is free to believe what they want.. for the Christians especially I am always astounded how they quote their scriptures and fail to see what is right before their eyes.. a charlatan who abrogated all the commandments of their alleged God!

all the best

AlexIslam said:

I have a christian friend who told me that Jesus (phuh) said that im the last prophet...dont believe in any after me... Also.. that jesus said the devil can disguise himself as an angel...and guide people on the wrong path..

I told him 100% this wasnt the case with Muhammad (phuh) as no angel can give out such a message, (if the angle was disguised as a devil).

Quran quotations would be helpful in this discussion..

Thanks brothers

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well, step 1: ask your friend if he believes that is really true

step 2 ask him if he thinks that the Bible of his, reflects this

step 3: show him this from Acts 11:

22Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.

23Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.

24For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

25Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:

26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

27And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

28And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

29Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:

30Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

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surely there MUST be something wrong with this "Bible" if it claims that there ARE, in fact, Prophets after Jesus!

step 4: ask him to clarify, are there Prophets after Jesus or not! and if not, then the Bible MUST be faulty!

BUT if the Bible IS faulty, then how does he REALLY know if there are Prophets after Jesus or not?

let us know how long it takes him to decide!

:wa:

There are just too many contradictions in the bible

Should this thread be moved to the Comparative Religions section, to be picked up after Ramadan?

AlexIslam said:

I have a christian friend who told me that Jesus (phuh) said that im the last prophet...dont believe in any after me... Also.. that jesus said the devil can disguise himself as an angel...and guide people on the wrong path..

I told him 100% this wasnt the case with Muhammad (phuh) as no angel can give out such a message, (if the angle was disguised as a devil).

Quran quotations would be helpful in this discussion..

Thanks brothers

Click to expand...

Did Jesus say these things?
Simple answer, "No." The closest that I can come to Jesus saying anything similar to this is "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17, NIV). Other translations say "complete" rather than "fulfill". This might be understood by some to mean that Jesus claims to be the last prophet, but that is an interpretation, not Jesus' actual words.

Jesus also does warn of false prophets who will come after him. "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible" (Mark 13:22, NIV). But the context of this is that we should not follow after false Christs in the last days. It is not to say that God would not send any more prophets. In fact, that is contrary to the teaching of the New Testament church which believed that the gift of prophey was one of the gifts that the Holy Spirit gave to the Church for the equipping of the saints and the building up of the body of Christ, which is the Church. Many Christians would hold that prophets still exist today.

^ prophet? Do Christians believe that Jesus is a prophet or god? or both?

another thing, if the verse meant that Jesus Peace Be Upon Him is the last prophet by the word "fulfill" or "complete" like some other may understand, then what did Jesus mean in John 16:

12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

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It seems that he was clearly referring to only one in the word "he", not "them" which means that he was telling of the coming of one person, right?

Danah said:

^ prophet? Do Christians believe that Jesus is a prophet or god? or both?

another thing, if the verse meant that Jesus Peace Be Upon Him is the last prophet by the word "fulfill" or "complete" like some other may understand, then what did Jesus mean in John 16:


It seems that he was clearly referring to only one in the word "he", not "them" which means that he was telling of the coming of one person, right?

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Well, yes he was referring to a Person, but that's because the Holy Ghost ie the Comforter is the Third Person of the Godhead. Here's the relevant passages:

'And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.' St. John 14: 16-17

'But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsover I have said unto you.' St. John 14: 26.

'Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement:

Of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.' St. John 16: 7-15.

Fedos said:

Well, yes he was referring to a Person, but that's because the Holy Ghost ie the Comforter is the Third Person of the Godhead. Here's the relevant passages:

'And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.' St. John 14: 16-17

'But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsover I have said unto you.' St. John 14: 26.

'Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement:

Of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.' St. John 16: 7-15.

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Hi,

Thanks for your reply...

So was the "holy spirit" the "person" that he referred to? What is the exact nature of the holy spirit anyways?
why he did not refer to it as "it" instead of "he"?


Also, I need a clarification about this verse:

'Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

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Isn't the Holy Spirit already there during and before the ministry of Jesus from the first day of creation? This is what I read in the book of Genesis; correct me if I am wrong please. How he tells that it will come when its already there?

YusufNoor said:

well, step 1: ask your friend if he believes that is really true

step 2 ask him if he thinks that the Bible of his, reflects this

step 3: show him this from Acts 11:



surely there MUST be something wrong with this "Bible" if it claims that there ARE, in fact, Prophets after Jesus!

step 4: ask him to clarify, are there Prophets after Jesus or not! and if not, then the Bible MUST be faulty!

BUT if the Bible IS faulty, then how does he REALLY know if there are Prophets after Jesus or not?

let us know how long it takes him to decide!

:wa:

Click to expand...

Amazing stuff sob7an Allah.. how do they reconcile this with what they actually preach without coming across as complete hypocrites :hmm:

Danah said:

Hi,

Thanks for your reply...

So was the "holy spirit" the "person" that he referred to? What is the exact nature of the holy spirit anyways?
why he did not refer to it as "it" instead of "he"?

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Well because he is a person and not an it. Just like God the Father and God the Son are persons. The God of the Bible is described as a living, personal God. Maybe this will help.

The living God":
The subject of God is quite a vast one, but the main point here is that He is LIVING. There are feelings, and thoughts, and decisions, and actions, and initiatives, and responses, and values, and commitments... all the aspects of personal existence. He is not a force or an attitude or a "perspective on the universe". We walk around our lives 'face to face' with this One-- even if we ignore Him.

Click to expand...

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/christn.html

Danah said:

Also, I need a clarification about this verse:


Isn't the Holy Spirit already there during and before the ministry of Jesus from the first day of creation? This is what I read in the book of Genesis; correct me if I am wrong please. How he tells that it will come when its already there?

Click to expand...

Well yes, the Holy Spirit is omnipresent (existing everywhere), just like the Father and the Son are omnipresent. But when you accept Jesus as your savior there comes a time when you become indwelled with the Holy Spirit, with his presence. There were a few exceptions, like John the Baptist who was filled with the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb, but the Holy Spirit did not indwell within the spirits of human beings until after Christ ascended to heaven.

Frankly, I haven't met two christians who could give a clear, exact same definition of God.

naidamar said:

Frankly, I haven't met two christians who could give a clear, exact same definition of God is.

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I have met christians who have addressed God as a she, which I found the most amusing of all.. with every passing day I find Christianity more absurd than the day before.. I think most of them (those who are forth coming) believe in God theoretically but don't subscribe to complicated cock-and-bull stories.. If the pope gets it, then good for him.
The concept of religion and God should be understood by the most complex and the simplest mind alike, you won't need a group of scholars explaining the 'nature of God' to folks or a life time trying to reconcile what they have in writing with the reality of things and another life time explaining why they let go of parts more plausible while adhering to parts absurd ...

Since the brother asked for qoutations from the Qur'aan here they are:

In the chapter of the Family of Imraan

[3.48] And He [Allah] will teach him [Jesus] the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat [Torah] and the Injeel [Bible].
[3.49] And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I create for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
[3.50] And a verifier of that which is before me of the Torah and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me.
[3.51] Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.

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In the chapter of Mary

[19.30] He [Jesus] said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
[19.31] And He [Allah] has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poor-rate so long as I live;
[19.32] And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;
[19.33] And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.
[19.34] Such is Isa [Jesus], son of Marium [Mary]; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute.
[19.35] It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a son, glory to be Him!; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is.
[19.36] And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.

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In Chapter Zukhruf

[43.63] And when Isa [Jesus] came with clear arguments he said: I have come to you indeed with wisdom, and that I may make clear to you part of what you differ in; so be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me:
[43.64] Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path:

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Glorified be Allah! The Truth is echoed throughout the Qur'aan and the Bible and the Torah.

And perhaps the most excplicit verse of them all

In the Chapter Saff

And when Isa [Jesus] son of Marium [Mary] said: O children of Israel! surely I am the apostle of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Apostle who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic.

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Fedos said:

Well because he is a person and not an it. Just like God the Father and God the Son are persons. The God of the Bible is described as a living, personal God. Maybe this will help.



http://www.christian-thinktank.com/christn.html



Well yes, the Holy Spirit is omnipresent (existing everywhere), just like the Father and the Son are omnipresent. But when you accept Jesus as your savior there comes a time when you become indwelled with the Holy Spirit, with his presence. There were a few exceptions, like John the Baptist who was filled with the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb, but the Holy Spirit did not indwell within the spirits of human beings until after Christ ascended to heaven.

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immm :hmm: can you explain more plz?
how can the holy spirit be not there when its there with some people but not with others? The promise didn't include any exceptions though. In addition to that I think that the holy spirit was there from the early beginning of the creation, with the prophets of the old testament and also when Jesus was baptized (Mathew 3:16), so?

Danah said:

immm :hmm: can you explain more plz?
how can the holy spirit be not there when its there with some people but not with others? The promise didn't include any exceptions though. In addition to that I think that the holy spirit was there from the early beginning of the creation, with the prophets of the old testament and also when Jesus was baptized (Mathew 3:16), so?

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Well, in John the Baptist's case, he was separated by God, for a specific task (even from his mother's womb). He was to prepare the way for the Messiah, Jesus Christ. So that's why he had the Holy Spirit while others didn't, because he was appointed a special task.

And in the book of Genesis we do find the Holy Spirit involved in the creation, as it says that 'the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.' But the Holy Spirit did not indwell within the spirits of the Old Testament saints, because Christ hadn't died and rose yet. There are some who believe that in certain instances the Holy Spirit would come upon individuals at certain times (like, say, when Elijah outran the chariot in Kings), but he didn't indwell within them. And I personally have felt the Spirit of God a few times when I was a child and still in my sins playing the drums at my old church, but I didn't know what it was or what was happening until after I accepted Christ as my savior.

Is this all explained in the bible or are we all free to make our version?

naidamar said:

Is this all explained in the bible or are we all free to make our version?

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Well, here is where it says the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters:

'And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.' Genesis 1: 2.

And here is where it is stated that John the Baptist would be filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb:

'But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.' Luke 1: 13-15.

And here are the scriptures describing Pentacost, when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Apostles:

'And when the day of Pentacost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.' Acts 1: 1-3

And I don't have a scripture that explains that the Holy Spirit came upon the Old Testament saints, but I was just basing that supposition on the fact that the Holy Spirit is the one who works through believers.