Did Jesus(phuh) really say 'im the last prophet' dont believe any, after me?

[Danah]

Well, in John the Baptist's case, he was separated by God, for a specific task (even from his mother's womb). He was to prepare the way for the Messiah, Jesus Christ. So that's why he had the Holy Spirit while others didn't, because he was appointed a special task.

And in the book of Genesis we do find the Holy Spirit involved in the creation, as it says that 'the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.' But the Holy Spirit did not indwell within the spirits of the Old Testament saints, because Christ hadn't died and rose yet

The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament

Some Christians seem to think that the Holy Spirit was a stranger to the Old Testament and to the Old Testament saint. In reality, the Spirit of God is much more quickly evident than the second person of the Trinity, the Son of God. A look at a concordance will quickly indicate this. The Holy Spirit first occurs in the second verse of the Bible, Genesis 1:2, actively involved in the creation of the earth. Shortly thereafter in Genesis 6, the Holy Spirit is said to be involved with creation and specifically with men, in striving with them due to their sin. In the closing books of the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit is frequently mentioned, that last clear reference being found in Malachi 2:15.
Let us consider a number of the passages in which the Holy Spirit is mentioned. Let us look to the ways in which the Spirit worked in the days of old, and let us (later on) compare these with the work of the Spirit in the New Testament times, as well as in our own. I believe we will see a great deal of continuity.4


source: bible.org-Holy Spirit in the Old Testament

*read the rest of the page and you will find it with all prophets of the old testament*

. There are some who believe that in certain instances the Holy Spirit would come upon individuals at certain times (like, say, when Elijah outran the chariot in Kings), but he didn't indwell within them. And I personally have felt the Spirit of God a few times when I was a child and still in my sins playing the drums at my old church, but I didn't know what it was or what was happening until after I accepted Christ as my savior.

Its there at the end! whether it indwell with them or not, it came that time

And I don't have a scripture that explains that the Holy Spirit came upon the Old Testament saints, but I was just basing that supposition on the fact that the Holy Spirit is the one who works through believers.

Refer back to my first quote in this post

 

[mkh4JC]

The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament

Some Christians seem to think that the Holy Spirit was a stranger to the Old Testament and to the Old Testament saint. In reality, the Spirit of God is much more quickly evident than the second person of the Trinity, the Son of God. A look at a concordance will quickly indicate this. The Holy Spirit first occurs in the second verse of the Bible, Genesis 1:2, actively involved in the creation of the earth. Shortly thereafter in Genesis 6, the Holy Spirit is said to be involved with creation and specifically with men, in striving with them due to their sin. In the closing books of the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit is frequently mentioned, that last clear reference being found in Malachi 2:15.
Let us consider a number of the passages in which the Holy Spirit is mentioned. Let us look to the ways in which the Spirit worked in the days of old, and let us (later on) compare these with the work of the Spirit in the New Testament times, as well as in our own. I believe we will see a great deal of continuity.4


source: bible.org-Holy Spirit in the Old Testament

*read the rest of the page and you will find it with all prophets of the old testament*



Its there at the end! whether it indwell with them or not, it came that time




Refer back to my first quote in this post

Well, there is a difference in the Holy Spirit just 'coming upon' an Old Testament saint and indwelling within New Testament saints. John the Baptist and a few others were the exception to the norm.

But here's a quote from the link you gave me:

It is noteworthy, I believe, to see that the Spirit’s coming upon men was the sovereign choice of God, rather than God’s response to the initiative of men. Generally speaking, men did not expect the Spirit of God to come upon them, nor did they do anything to prompt it. It happened. God took the initiative, and men responded accordingly. There is clearly no “pattern” for those who would wish to find some method or formula for obtaining the Spirit’s power. Men did not dispose of God or of His Spirit; rather God disposed of men, using His Spirit to do so.

He doesn't say that the Holy Spirit 'indwelled' within them. That couldn't happen until Christ's ministry. When you accept Christ and then become indwelled with the Holy Spirit then you are on a journey to be more and more like Christ, to be--as the Bible states--'conformed to the image of the Son.' On a journey towards perfection. This wasn't the case with the Old Testament saints.

 

[جوري]

Is this all explained in the bible or are we all free to make our version?

You are free to make your own version.. I believe that is what Martin Luther did when he turned christ into thrice the adulterer (astghfor Allah il3atheem) although I think it less outrageous than making him into God!

 

[Sojourn]

I have a christian friend who told me that Jesus (phuh) said that im the last prophet...dont believe in any after me...

Peace Alex,

From a Christian perspective Jesus is the Divine Word of God, and when spoken there is nothing left to be said, so the coming of Christ was the end to any new revelation. Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church, that His Church will never be defeated, and that He will remain with His followers till the end of time. So like Muslims, we Christians believe our faith is preserved, protected, and the final message.

Just on a historical note, the first person to claim to be a prophet after Jesus was a man by the name of Montan in the 2nd Century. He claimed to bring a new testament that supersedes the Bible, a claim similar to Muhammad's. His movement was unanimously resisted against by the early Christians, and it can be said that since then any claim to a new revelation has been rejected.


Hope this helps

 

[Rasema]

He claimed to bring a new testament that supersedes the Bible, a claim similar to Muhammad's.

What do you mean to bring a new testament that suplersedes the Bible. What do you mean about the new testament?

Muhammad,sallallahu alaihi wa salam, didn't claim that he braught a new testament. The Qur'an is very different to the new testament especially to the King James version.

 

[Sojourn]

What do you mean to bring a new testament that suplersedes the Bible.

That the message of Montan abrogated what's before it, and that everyone must accept the message Montan revealed.

 

[Danah]

Well, there is a difference in the Holy Spirit just 'coming upon' an Old Testament saint and indwelling within New Testament saints. John the Baptist and a few others were the exception to the norm.

But here's a quote from the link you gave me:



He doesn't say that the Holy Spirit 'indwelled' within them. That couldn't happen until Christ's ministry. When you accept Christ and then become indwelled with the Holy Spirit then you are on a journey to be more and more like Christ, to be--as the Bible states--'conformed to the image of the Son.' On a journey towards perfection. This wasn't the case with the Old Testament saints.

I got your point in the difference between indwelled and came upon. I dont really see any "essential" difference between the two words in the matter of the presence whether the Spirit came upon or indwelled within someone, its there in both cases!! the Spirit was there at the beginning of the creation, then "influencing" the prophets of the old testament to accomplish their work "as the Christianity stated" whether it indwelled within them or just came upon them. Its there in any case since its influence is there.

I see it exactly as if I come to my friend house and just stand by the door there without entering the home, or enter the home, sitting with her, eating....etc
In both case I will be considered as being there in that neighborhood

I hope you got my point
Thanks for your time answering my questions

greeting

 

[جوري]

That the message of Montan abrogated what's before it, and that everyone must accept the message Montan revealed.

The message of KwaZulu-Natal abrogated all that is before it, and that everyone must accept the message that KwaZulu-Natal revealed!


all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

immm :hmm: can you explain more plz?
how can the holy spirit be not there when its there with some people but not with others? The promise didn't include any exceptions though. In addition to that I think that the holy spirit was there from the early beginning of the creation, with the prophets of the old testament and also when Jesus was baptized (Mathew 3:16), so?

I probably wouldn't use Fedos illustration of the differences between "indwelled" and "came upon." What I would point to is that the Holy Spirit was present in a more transcendent sense in Genesis and remained outside of rather than indwelling or coming upon people like He would do after Jesus's time on earth. I believe that this coming upon people by the Holy Spirit is what happened at Pentecost (described in Acts 2) and that from that time on the Holy Spirit has had not just a transcendent presence, but also been imminently present in the lives of those who specifically belong to Jesus Christ. It matters not to me whether you call it "coming upon", "indwelling", "infilling", or some other such term, it is a declaration that God is not longer outside of us, but that just as Adam was created to commune with God only to have that relationship was broken in the fall, that now in Christ we have once again been reconciled to God and so that opportunity for genuine communion with God is restored for those who are in Christ. This is experienced through the presence of God present in our lives through the intermediary presence of his Holy Spirit abiding within us in a way that no one except Jesus had experienced since Adam. It was then first experienced by the Apostles at Pentecost and subsequently is available to all who believe and do not resist the Holy Spirit's presence in their lives.

 

[Al Ansari]

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
For such are false Apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Look at the contradicting accounts of Paul's vision on the road to Damascus. He undid everything 'Isa ibn Maryam (as) taught. He reinterpreted 'Isa's message. Could not 'Isa give a clear understanding of Allaah's law to the people so that the people will have no discourse?

 

[Sojourn]

Peace Al Ansari,

Look at the contradicting accounts of Paul's vision on the road to Damascus.

What are the contradicting accounts?

He undid everything 'Isa ibn Maryam (as) taught. He reinterpreted 'Isa's message.

It's sad to see St Paul slandered in such a way, especially since he endured so many hardships, and ultimately gave up his life for the Gospel of Christ. St Paul simply passed on what he himself received, as he himself admits:

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve."
1 Corinthians 15:3-5

That is the essence of Christ's message, anyone who departs from it is the true "reinterpreter" and "undoer" of Jesus' teaching.

Could not 'Isa give a clear understanding of Allaah's law to the people so that the people will have no discourse?

Not sure what you mean here, are you attributing some failure on Jesus' part?

 

[mkh4JC]

On the topic of the thread, here is what Jesus said in St. John:

'Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.' St John 10: 7-13.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Peace Al Ansari,



What are the contradicting accounts?



It's sad to see St Paul slandered in such a way, especially since he endured so many hardships, and ultimately gave up his life for the Gospel of Christ. St Paul simply passed on what he himself received, as he himself admits:

"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve."
1 Corinthians 15:3-5

That is the essence of Christ's message, anyone who departs from it is the true "reinterpreter" and "undoer" of Jesus' teaching.

You are so right about the bad rap that Paul gets. People accuse him of not being "Jewish" enough. Hilarious given his personal background as a pharisee and the strong emphasis he makes in places like Romans that the gospel is "the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile" (Romans 1:16).