Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"

This was an interesting debate brought up on the other thread and unfortunately, it could not be elaborated since the thread went off topic.

Alright, now the thing is, ALL of us Muslims here DO mind when the western world calls us "terrorists" right? Be it because of their propaganda, or because of our acts (which is not the case) us Muslims HAVE had our reputation go down due to the actions done by the groups such the Taliban who perform sins in the name of OUR religion. Their actions DID make our religion come across as wrong and ever since then, the Western world never stopped calling us terrorists and till today we fight against this injustice as what they say is wrong and we are NOT terrorists although in the modern times (immediate present) only Muslims have had an "islamic group" who performed terror in the name of our religion (Taliban). In this aspect, the other religions come off as clean as they DO have terrorists, but hardly do they perform crime in the name of religion.

But look at us. Everytime we talk about the west, we ALWAYS go on like how shallow they are, how they are like public property, they have no shame and freely go to bed with anyone, they do drugs, etc.

How can we expect them to stop calling us terrorists, if we dont stop calling them these? Fact is, MANY of the muslim population (even the ones who arent living in the west) perform the same act as them sitting here in our "Muslim countries".

What the most of their population does, is not right. But what we do, is not right either. If they do the wrong thing, we must try to correct them, but you can NEVER correct someone if you constantly criticize them without any will to show them the right path. Thats what we do all the time.

So we feel bad when they wrongfully call us terrorists right? What about the people in the west, the ones who DO stay away from these activities, how do they feel when we talk about them in this way?

Islam has taught us to be kind to everyone and to be nice. Not to go about flaming people like that. So why are we still doing this? Instead of badmouthing the western people, we should instead try to make them understand that what they are doing is wrong.

Think of it this way, suppose there are political parties. Now one party is democratic while the other is communist. Now, obvious the democratic party has the advantage due to its features so the democratic party and the communist party, CONSTANTLY badmouths each other but it is the democratic party who wants the communist party to stop bad mouthing about them.

Do you ACTUALLY believe the communist party will stop? No, the communists arent asking the democrats to stop bad mouthing them either so they have no obligations to keep going. But since the democrats want the communists to stop bad mouthing, the democrats should be the FIRST people to stop, and show the communists that they can be good people in order for the communists to stop their wrong doing.

In this case, we are the democrats, they are the communists. Our ideology and form of Government is greatly superior, but we are stooping down in the same level as them in order to badmouth. WE SHOULD STOP.



As long as we associate the western people with things like shallowness, sinful adultery, drugs, etc. The western people are not obligated to call us Muslims - terrorists.

If we want THEM to change, WE OURSELVES have to change first.

This is the point I am trying to make.

Fighting4iman said:

considering the west to be shameless and sinful is not wrong - it is very correct. CALLING THEM it like a fool, in a way which will make them angry may not be the most intelligent thing to be done however they should DEFINITLY one way or another be WARNED about their way of life.

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If we make them look like a fool, do you think they will ever learn? We are trying to make them realize that what they are doing is wrong, so we must go about it in a "willing to teach" manner instead of a "criticize and show that we are better" manner.

If you want to warn them, do it in the right way. Don't flame them, criticize them or badmouth them as in the end, instead of teaching them anything, you will turn them into BIGGER enemies against Islam as NO-ONE likes to be bad mouthed.

People who badmouth them like this, are pouring salt over their own religion as they are feeding the enemy's hatred against us.

Think, what would Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) do to correct them? Do it as you would do for Sunnah, OR dont try to correct them at all if you dont have the WILL to teach them.

Najm said:

Moreover, you may not have left your house for a long time, but "in the west", adultery, drugs, clubbing, pubbing, anit-social behaviour, as well as the revolting level of toilet ettiquettes as suggested by this thread is very common practice. This isnt "Extemely stereotypical", spend a day in the public toilets and you'llsee for yourself the revolting activites that commonly occur.

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Yes, what about the people who dont do these?

And trust me, the west is pretty clean with bathroom etiquette compared to what I hear about / see in African and South Asian Muslim countries.

Ive been to USA plenty of times and I didnt see a SINGLE person there not using soap after they finish using the toilet. Yes, in public toilets. And from what is common knowledge, European bathroom etiquette is superior to the Americans so I have no idea where you got that idea from.

But yes, one thing they do that I dont agree with is not applying water after they finish erm, releasing their wastes. Other than that, they ALWAYS wash their hands after they urinate AND after they finish releasing waste..

So see? US Muslims have assumed these things of them which are not true through indirect means of propaganda which has spread because we bad mouth them.

If you DO see people not washing hands after using the bathroom, those people are usually the South Asians (unfortunately) from the countries such as India, Bangladesh, etc.



Did you people hear about the story when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) went 3 weeks (or 1 week, I dont remember which) without having any sweets in order to advise a child that having sweets is wrong?

So in this situation, we MUST do the same. We must stop badmouthing them (even if we are right) in order for them to stop badmouthing us. So lets begin this motion. Let us change ourselves first before we ask them to do the same as THIS would be the right thing to do.

ChOcCi said:

How can we expect them to stop calling us terrorists, if we dont stop calling them these?

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And you expect them to stop calling us terrorist if we stop (allegedly) calling those western individuals for their acts?
How naive.
It is the western media that perpetuate the image and idea of muslim as terrorist.
Not all western people think all muslims are terrorist, just as not all muslims think all westerners are filthy.

However, I agree that we as ummah need to improve our individual behaviour as close as the sunnah.

naidamar said:

And you expect them to stop calling us terrorist if we stop (allegedly) calling those western individuals for their acts?
How naive.
It is the western media that perpetuate the image and idea of muslim as terrorist.

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Well, why not be the better man and show them that we will respond to their harsh with sweeter words. Wouldnt this be the right thing to do?

And lets not forget, it is the Muslim media that perpetuate the image and idea of western culture as filthy.

Although we are right in saying so, and they are wrong, we should still not say something that would increase their hatred against us. We are all pouring fat into fire.

As Muslims, it is our job to show the world that we are the better people so why dont we start doing this first and set an example? This will no doubts aid in clearing our "bad" name.

respond to their harsh words with sweeter words.

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correction there and I also wanted to add another point.

If they like Islam better, chances are that they will convert to Islam faster as well. So why not show them our good nature?

ChOcCi said:

As Muslims, it is our job to show the world that we are the better people so why dont we start doing this first and set an example? This will no doubts aid in clearing our "bad" name.

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As muslims, our job is to please Allah SWT, not to please other people.
Everything else will fall correctly into its place Insya Allah.

ChOcCi said:

correction there and I also wanted to add another point.

If they like Islam better, chances are that they will convert to Islam faster as well. So why not show them our good nature?

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This is a completely wrong mode of thinking brother, you should literally understand this "IT is ALLAH(swt) and only ALLAH(swt) who guides", we can't sugar coat Islam for them just to get them convert and then maybe later they apostate.
I used to think like you, but you have to realize that ALLAH(swt) is in no need of people we are the ones in need of him.

naidamar said:

As muslims, our job is to please Allah SWT, not to please other people.
Everything else will fall correctly into its place Insya Allah.

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Think long term dude. If we can show them how good we are (Allah WANTS us to be polite and good like that) they will like us better and they will ACTUALLY want to agree to want to give Islam a chance (see what its like) and ANYONE who looks at Islam properly WOULD know that our religion is the right religion.

by the way, you have a wrong attitude, whats wrong with pleasing others?? Just because its not a Farz to please others, are you willing to go anger them and make them hate us instead? Like I said, "salt over your own religion".

GreyKode said:

This is a completely wrong mode of thinking brother, you should literally understand this "IT is ALLAH(swt) and only ALLAH(swt) who guides", we can't sugar coat Islam for them just to get them convert and then maybe later they apostate.
I used to think like you, but you have to realize that ALLAH(swt) is in no need of people we are the ones in need of him.

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How are we "sugar coating" Islam by returning their flaming with nice words? Isnt that what our prophet has taught us? To be nice and polite to everyone? We are doing a Sunnah by returning their insults with well mannered responses and NOT insult them back about their "filthiness" as you people put it.


I dont understand you people. Think about it. What I am trying to say, is it wrong in ANY form or shape? Does it HARM anyone or anything in ANY possible way?
The Answer is a no for all the questions.

Now, lets look at it from another point of view.
Is it the right choice to be polite instead of insulting them back? Does this help anyone or anything if we do this?
Answer for both those questions is a YES. Your parents, your religion (Islam) has always taught you to be nice and polite and it is common knowledge that insulting is a bad thing. So we should chose the right path, should we not?
And yes, it also helps us gain, as well as helps Islam gain. It helps us by improving our nature. Once we learn to be tolerant towards their insults, we will see that our nature will change for the better. It will make us come across as good natured people. Everyone likes people like that and always hears them out. And finally, it will help Islam come into the hearts of others, as when they see that we are not as bad as they think we are, they will not hate us any longer and they will actually give Islam a chance and once they see how good it is, they will accept our religion.

Now, I KNOW Allah doesnt need them to accept Islam. But Allah WANTS them to accept Islam, am I not right? By doing this, we will indirectly be helping someone chose the right path which is a great Suwab (dont know if I spelled it right).

Tell me, WHY are you people so AGAINST the idea of helping the non believers out? It seems to me that you guys would rather insult them than show them the right path.

Oh and if you guys are familiar with facebook, you will know HOW many *f Islam* groups there are there. And guess what ACTUALLY fuels them? When us Muslims go there and start insulting them back.. They feed off our insults and if we simply STOP our insults and instead be good to them, there wont be anymore fun in staying with that group and eventually, everyone will leave and feel bad about doing this. But it is US Muslims who are refusing to get rid of our enemies by stooping down to the same low grade as them.

We should always act with good manners and behave well towards others, whether they be Muslims or non-Muslims. However, we should not go to the extent where we seek to appease them and make them like us by submitting to their will.

For instance, most of the Western governments want all Muslims to become secular like the Christians have. Of course they don't mind that we pray 5 times a day, but they'd rather we lose our desire to see Shari'a law implemented and to live by the laws of God.

Many Muslims around the world have already given into this and have left a good part of their deen behind them. This is not the right attitude; we need to be steadfast in our religion and hold true to every aspect, no matter how displeasing it is to the non-Muslims.

The most amazing thing is no matter how hard they bash Islam, call us terrorists or the like, people are still coming to Islam in droves. We need to dispel these false notions of extremism as much as we can and give da'wah, but know that this religion is succeeding because of Allah, not because of us.

^ what a great post Masha Allah!

rpwelton said:

We should always act with good manners and behave well towards others, whether they be Muslims or non-Muslims. However, we should not go to the extent where we seek to appease them and make them like us by submitting to their will.

For instance, most of the Western governments want all Muslims to become secular like the Christians have. Of course they don't mind that we pray 5 times a day, but they'd rather we lose our desire to see Shari'a law implemented and to live by the laws of God.

Many Muslims around the world have already given into this and have left a good part of their deen behind them. This is not the right attitude; we need to be steadfast in our religion and hold true to every aspect, no matter how displeasing it is to the non-Muslims.

The most amazing thing is no matter how hard they bash Islam, call us terrorists or the like, people are still coming to Islam in droves. We need to dispel these false notions of extremism as much as we can and give da'wah, but know that this religion is succeeding because of Allah, not because of us.

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hmm, I completely agree with you, but the thing is, I wasnt trying to say we should submit to their will.. Well, my point was, we should stop insulting the west about "their way of doing things" so that they understand that we are being the better people by not stooping to their level and eventually, they would stop. My motion is simply to stop the insults. Its not to hard to do, and in the end, it will do all of us good.

ChOcCi said:

hmm, I completely agree with you, but the thing is, I wasnt trying to say we should submit to their will.. Well, my point was, we should stop insulting the west about "their way of doing things" so that they understand that we are being the better people by not stooping to their level and eventually, they would stop. My motion is simply to stop the insults. Its not to hard to do, and in the end, it will do all of us good.

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I guess perhaps we're not on the same page. When you say "insults", do you mean Muslims going up to non-Muslims and insulting their way of dress (for being too immodest) or their drinking, fornication, etc? I have never heard of Muslims doing this, so I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Or are you talking about how Muslims will often generalize the West given its current state of moral depravity?

We should never generalize a people as a whole, but we can say by and large the West is like such and such, because it's true. We shouldn't use that as an arguing point against them until we show them the beauties of Islam (ie, don't just bash them), but we also shouldn't ignore it like there isn't a problem.

There was a survey done not too long ago amongst people in Muslim countries on what they thought was wrong with America. Then they did the same survey with Americans about what was wrong with America. Turns out they agreed on about 90% of the points.

So the West has a problem and it knows it. But we should always offer up how Islam is a beautiful solution in a respectful manner and not be condescending.

As Muslims we sometimes tend to talk condescendingly towards the West amongst ourselves, but I've never heard of Muslims doing that with non-Muslims. But then again maybe I've been living under a rock.

EDIT: To add to GreyKode's point, go on any Islamic youtube video where Christians and other non-Muslims post comments. 90% of the time the non-Muslim is hurling insults and the Muslim is simply responding by conveying the message. Very rarely do I see Muslims getting heated over these issues and throwing the insults back at the non-Muslims.

ChOcCi said:

Oh and if you guys are familiar with facebook, you will know HOW many *f Islam* groups there are there. And guess what ACTUALLY fuels them? When us Muslims go there and start insulting them back.. They feed off our insults and if we simply STOP our insults and instead be good to them, there wont be anymore fun in staying with that group and eventually, everyone will leave and feel bad about doing this. But it is US Muslims who are refusing to get rid of our enemies by stooping down to the same low grade as them.

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Brother, I NEVER said anything about being impolite or disrespectful to them, I am completely against insults.
But don't you often find accusations against muslims of being backward and how the hijab degrades women although muslim women come out often and defend the hijab yet they insist on this accusation.
All I am saying is that you will never be able to please them. All over youtube you can find christians ganging up with Jews, hindus and athiests!!! against muslims, how many usernames f*ALLAH, Muslim*f by christians do you find on youtube.

rpwelton said:

I guess perhaps we're not on the same page. When you say "insults", do you mean Muslims going up to non-Muslims and insulting their way of dress (for being too immodest) or their drinking, fornication, etc? I have never heard of Muslims doing this, so I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Or are you talking about how Muslims will often generalize the West given its current state of moral depravity?

We should never generalize a people as a whole, but we can say by and large the West is like such and such, because it's true. We shouldn't use that as an arguing point against them until we show them the beauties of Islam (ie, don't just bash them), but we also shouldn't ignore it like there isn't a problem.

There was a survey done not too long ago amongst people in Muslim countries on what they thought was wrong with America. Then they did the same survey with Americans about what was wrong with America. Turns out they agreed on about 90% of the points.

So the West has a problem and it knows it. But we should always offer up how Islam is a beautiful solution in a respectful manner and not be condescending.

As Muslims we sometimes tend to talk condescendingly towards the West amongst ourselves, but I've never heard of Muslims doing that with non-Muslims. But then again maybe I've been living under a rock.

EDIT: To add to GreyKode's point, go on any Islamic youtube video where Christians and other non-Muslims post comments. 90% of the time the non-Muslim is hurling insults and the Muslim is simply responding by conveying the message. Very rarely do I see Muslims getting heated over these issues and throwing the insults back at the non-Muslims.

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hmm, quite true, I completely agree with what you say but either way, we should refrain from generalizing them as "filthy" the same way they generalize us as "terrorists" right? But if you take the time and go over some of the *f Islam* groups on facebook, you'll see what I mean..

@Greykode: I used to play this game called tribalwars and there was this player who used the user name of "Alllah" and for a while there I made it a personal agenda to destroy that player if I ever meet him but unfortunately, I never got the chance.. It really pisses me off when I see them disrespect our RELIGION (not even us) like that and well, fortunately, us Muslims NEVER show disrespect to their religion. Hopefully, they will come to understand this as everything takes time

us Muslims HAVE had our reputation go down due to the actions done by the groups such the Taliban who perform sins in the name of OUR religion

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whatd the taliban do except defend their country? and who are you to say their acts is a sin?

As much as I agree with the original poster about majority of the points he/she made, what i don't understand is, why we're comparing a religion to a culture.

Religion wise I wouldn't ever pick another religion over Islam. If, god forbid, i left my religion i would always believe in god but wont pick another religion after Islam cause i truly believe it's the best religion out there. When it comes to culture, i would rather live the western culture than east(religion aside, as in not giving up my religion).

Amani, disregarding western propaganda, havent you heard what the Taliban did to Afganistan after they drove out the russians?

It was far worse than what Russia even did to the country. They murdered in the name of Islam. THAT is terrorism above all else.

Only Allah has the right to take lives. Not us.

amani said:

whatd the taliban do except defend their country? and who are you to say their acts is a sin?

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Well i don't know, doing things against Islam is usually considered a sin by us Muslims!

Let's see not allowing women to get an education(when in the quran it says we are all to get an education. Prophet Muhammad had said it multiple times how men and women all should be educated). Also killing all innocent people who try to talk against their rule is usually considered a bad thing. All the human right violations..The list could go on for ever, but it's pretty sick that you tried to defend someone like that.

ieshia said:

As much as I agree with the original poster about majority of the points he/she made, what i don't understand is, why we're comparing a religion to a culture.

Religion wise I wouldn't ever pick another religion over Islam. If, god forbid, i left my religion i would always believe in god but wont pick another religion after Islam cause i truly believe it's the best religion out there. When it comes to culture, i would rather live the western culture than east(religion aside, as in not giving up my religion).

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hmm, actually, it is natural for everyone to want to live in the western culture, but the thing is, Islam forbids us to do the things a lot of people in the west commonly do so to be honest, although id rather live by the western code, I would do my best to force myself from going into their culture too much because in the absolute end, it will only bring me harm even if its fun and good for me in the short run.

The problem with me is, I like some others, think too much of the short run. Its true, I always go about every now and then about how Islam is TOO strict or how some things should be allowed to be, but in the end, I know that the things I want to be made allowed, are STILL harmful or wrong in some way or the other and Islam makes sure we stay away from these things, even if it is crazily strict.
But in the end, if we make the sacrifice and stay away from forbidden things, we can easily surpass 70 years of pain on earth with an eternity of joy in Heaven.
I actually have to teach this to myself first, but I do my best not to come across as a total hypocrite ^_^

So my point was, the safe way is the Muslim community way, the hard way is the western way as unfortunately, Islam forbids majority of the western culture to us.