Muslim "terrorism" Vs. Western "social culture"

[ieshia]

Defending their country – see below - all the dead and injured were Pakistanis?

And the guy that drove the car believes that he will be given the rewards prescribed for martyrs!!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hkiMxbHNH0BqgpWA2ZG6VD6wVTmAD9AV38900

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Two suicide attacks killed 16 people and wounded more than 150 in northwest Pakistan on Saturday, showing Taliban militants are still able to strike despite heightened military operations and the slaying of their leader last month.
A Taliban spokesman called The Associated Press after the first bombing outside a police station to claim responsibility and warn of more blasts. He claimed the militants had been holding back on attacks but that any such "pause" was now over.

AMANI-
This is only one example that Thinker posted and it's a small lost compared so many other brutal deaths of innocent people caused by the Taliban.

 

[S_87]

Dude the people of United States were killed brutally as well by people living in Afghanistan. Now war in Iraq is not fair and that is completely wrong but in Afghanistan is justified and better for the world's sake

in ur eyes maybe but i dont support terrorism so i dont see big bullies ruining a country based on no actual evidence to be better for the worlds sake.

The person from Afghanistan is the person who had relatives die but was more upset by the way the talibans had treated them(a husband and wife couple). You haven't spoken to anyone there or from there okay!

neither have you spoken to those in afghanistan who support the taliban and think they are good for the country. theres a reason why they are all around the country and fighting-they have support.

Most of the civilians there hate Taliban and don't have such hate for the U.S army.

nope they dont hate america for bombing them. just like many who woke up stopped being civilians and decided to fight for their country.

Why would Pakistan have a propaganda about this... what do they have to gain?

ALOT

Pakistanis were simply killed by and discriminated against by your beloved Talibans. There is clear proof to that, with videos, people, evidence of their weapons and rules. You just rather look pass that and believe what ever you want to believe. You refuse to believe anything the taliban did wrong and will even believe a simple rumor that goes against the U.S troops to be the truth.

i dont claim the taliban rule was perfect. nowhere have i said they didnt make any mistakes. However, i do think they are in their rights to defend their coutry against invaders- would you not do the same? i think the propaganda is a big weapon in war-do you not agree? and i dont think shariah law is wrong-are we in agreement?

I will search for it later because my other computer with the quran's translation is turned off at the moment but did do a quick search and found this, sort of similar thing. It was mentioned several times in the quran but i will post it all later..

"This is why the people who truly reverence GOD are those who are knowledgeable. GOD is Almighty, Forgiving." Quran 35:28

Meaning: the people who truly have respect and fear of god are those who are educated/knowledgeable.

this is knowledge in Allah and the Power and greatness of Allah and the aqeedah that muslims hold in general which im sure the taliban did not stop people from learning as you said:

Let's see not allowing women to get an education(when in the quran it says we are all to get an education

Who are you speaking off? Do you think we went to Afghanistan without any reason?

i think 11/9 was created so they could get into afghanistan. the majority of these so called bombers were from saudi arabia, it would have made more sense to go there. but no, they went into afghanistan for a reason.

 

[S_87]

Defending their country – see below - all the dead and injured were Pakistanis?

And the guy that drove the car believes that he will be given the rewards prescribed for martyrs!!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hkiMxbHNH0BqgpWA2ZG6VD6wVTmAD9AV38900

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Two suicide attacks killed 16 people and wounded more than 150 in northwest Pakistan on Saturday, showing Taliban militants are still able to strike despite heightened military operations and the slaying of their leader last month.
A Taliban spokesman called The Associated Press after the first bombing outside a police station to claim responsibility and warn of more blasts. He claimed the militants had been holding back on attacks but that any such "pause" was now over.

now thinker this is where it gets complicated and i ask, what exactly makes a person or people 'the taliban'? is it that they oppose the us? they have a big beard? they shout death to america/israel?
i do not support terrorist attacks against civilians in general -you wont see me cheering for 11/9,7/7 and even blasts in pakistan against civilians. or anywhere else for that matter? however it doesnt mean i think people like those in afghanistan and iraq and palestine dont have the right to stand up and fight who the terrorists are to them.

 

[ieshia]

in ur eyes maybe but i dont support terrorism so i dont see big bullies ruining a country based on no actual evidence to be better for the worlds sake.


neither have you spoken to those in afghanistan who support the taliban and think they are good for the country. theres a reason why they are all around the country and fighting-they have support.


nope they dont hate america for bombing them. just like many who woke up stopped being civilians and decided to fight for their country.


ALOT


i dont claim the taliban rule was perfect. nowhere have i said they didnt make any mistakes. However, i do think they are in their rights to defend their coutry against invaders- would you not do the same? i think the propaganda is a big weapon in war-do you not agree? and i dont think shariah law is wrong-are we in agreement?



this is knowledge in Allah and the Power and greatness of Allah and the aqeedah that muslims hold in general which im sure the taliban did not stop people from learning as you said:




i think 11/9 was created so they could get into afghanistan. the majority of these so called bombers were from saudi arabia, it would have made more sense to go there. but no, they went into afghanistan for a reason.

There is no point in arguing with you because your intellectual level nor your knowledge is not par to someone who can talk with logic rather than speaking from your feeling.
I will try one more time.
I can not believe that you just said since there are terrorist all around the world and they have support so they must be right. Firstly most of their support comes from gangsters, poor people who they influence into being terrorist for money and other uneducated people who can easily be manipulated. They have money because Afghanistan is one of the biggest drug exporting country and we all know how much business drug dealers make. They already had weapons that were giving to them by the U.S to fight Russia and they make their own weapons. Also I said i know a couple from Afghanistan who have first person insight on how the people of Afghanistan were treated and that was the reason they ran out of their country to seek freedom. Also with your logic, Christianity should be the better religion because there are more supporter of the Christian religion.

People of Afghanistan were not free as it was, they were taken over by the Taliban. They wanted freedom, they wanted Democracy! Why are they trying to change the rules to their liking now from what the Taliban had? The people of afghanistan do not like Taliban and they are not the same. Most people of one country never like the dictators!

[39:9] Is it not better to be one of those who meditate in the night, prostrating and staying up, being aware of the Hereafter, and seeking the mercy of their Lord? Say, "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.

 

[ieshia]

Amani- Sister you should watch the documentary on the attack on Bombay. I will try to find the link for you to watch online, but it was the sickest thing ever. I know it's not exactly the same thing but it should give you an idea about the logic and way of thinking these terrorists have.

 

[S_87]

There is no point in arguing with you because your intellectual level nor your knowledge is not par to someone who can talk with logic rather than speaking from your feeling.

Thank you. i accept that you are a well informed person on Afghanistan and i am ignorant and therefore have to right to think twice before believing every thing uncle sam tells me.

I can not believe that you just said since there are terrorist all around the world and they have support so they must be right.

i didnt say that neither did i say i supported terrorism. Read my words.

Firstly most of their support comes from gangsters, poor people who they influence into being terrorist for money and other uneducated people who can easily be manipulated.

i disagree. Truth stands clear from falsehood. Indeed when Muhammed :arabic5: brought islam to the people it was the 'poor uneducated' people who were accepting and the rich who were saying they are only accepting for that same reason. and no i dont think their support comes from gangsters. what makes you support the US? what makes them the good guys? what makes them legit in ur eyes? im genuinely interested in this answer.

They have money because Afghanistan is one of the biggest drug exporting country and we all know how much business drug dealers make

something even the west admitted that under taliban rule it was being handled and quite well at that. and after the invasion it began booming again. and why the surprise? strict 'human rights violating' punishments were given out to drug dealers.

They already had weapons that were giving to them by the U.S to fight Russia and they make their own weapons.

yeh so whats wrong with that?

Also I said i know a couple from Afghanistan who have first person insight on how the people of Afghanistan were treated and that was the reason they ran out of their country to seek freedom.

i dont claim that every single person in afghanistan supports the taliban

Also with your logic, Christianity should be the better religion because there are more supporter of the Christian religion.

what logic is that?

People of Afghanistan were not free as it was, they were taken over by the Taliban. They wanted freedom, they wanted Democracy!

are you a muslim? and if so..what kind of democracy are u speaking of?

Why are they trying to change the rules to their liking now from what the Taliban had?

your own western source:

The people of afghanistan do not like Taliban and they are not the same. Most people of one country never like the dictators!

refer to map and how taliban have so much support if the people are hating them? just a handful of people are that powerful that they can control that much with no support?

[39:9] Is it not better to be one of those who meditate in the night, prostrating and staying up, being aware of the Hereafter, and seeking the mercy of their Lord? Say, "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.

indeed is a believer who knows/fears and loves his Rub equal to a disbeliever who doesnt?

Amani- Sister you should watch the documentary on the attack on Bombay. I will try to find the link for you to watch online, but it was the sickest thing ever. I know it's not exactly the same thing but it should give you an idea about the logic and way of thinking these terrorists have

.
are we talking about random acts of terrorism worldwide which i have said i dont support or are we talking about people (likethe taliban) being able to defend their country against invaders?

 

[جوري]

Dude the people of United States were killed brutally as well by people living in Afghanistan.

Do you represent ALL the people of Afghanistan?
let's speak for the 99.999999 that you don't represent or leave it all aside to address common sense? If you occupy other people's country's for whatever reasons you best be ready to lose your head/limb or life and more, not just by army folks, untrained militia but also the common every day folks!

There is no justification for the invasion of Afghanistan save the obvious to the rest of us.. however many traitors exist within and without and they seem to get the most attention!

all the best!

 

[جوري]

As for a real look at the taliban from someone who has escaped..

well let's see whose opinion should we be consumed by? a mysterious person who alleges escape? or a British journalist who was helped captive? (gangster, poor, and undereducated?)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3673730.stm


all the best

 

[ieshia]

Do you represent ALL the people of Afghanistan?
let's speak for the 99.999999 that you don't represent or leave it all aside to address common sense? If you occupy other people's country's for whatever reasons you best be ready to lose your head/limb or life and more, not just by army folks, untrained militia but also the common every day folks!

There is no justification for the invasion of Afghanistan save the obvious to the rest of us.. however many traitors exist within and without and they seem to get the most attention!

all the best!

You did not understand what i meant. Did you read what i was replying to when i said that?
I meant innocent people in the united states were killed by a few terrorists hiding in Afghanistan(and that is why people had to be sent to Afghanistan to take care of those people who did evil, which may also be considered as self defense like someone mentioned earlier in this thread). I was not talking about the military that's in Afghanistan or anything, and they weren't really hurt by afghani civilians but actually by the gangs in Afghan.

Please don't take one little sentence or fragment from what i say and make it sound completely different. That is exactly what people do when they try to demean Quran and take things out of context.

 

[جوري]

You did not understand what i meant. Did you read what i was replying to when i said that?

Pls spare me the platitudes for intros.

I meant innocent people in the united states were killed by a few terrorists hiding in Afghanistan(and that is why people had to be sent to Afghanistan to take care of those people who did evil, which may also be considered as self defense like someone mentioned earlier in this thread). I was not talking about the military that's in Afghanistan or anything, and they weren't really hurt by afghani civilians but actually by the gangs in Afghan.

Casualties of wars.. hardly a reason to send an already war torn country into further turmoil. Your ratiocination as to 'why people are sent there' are as sophomoric and ill researched as the conclusion of the OP that if we coax 'westerners' with some buttered up words, they'd lay off making toons about the prophet and putting Quranic verses on public toilets and cease their attack on Islam which is age old from Islam's very inception!

Please don't take one little sentence or fragment from what i say and make it sound completely different. That is exactly what people do when they try to demean Quran and take things out of context.

That is rather amusing from someone who insinuated herself in the middle of the thread to tell us 'how it is', bringing the Quran into this is as much of a non-sequitur as bringing the black-water scandal in a thread about the 23 most common strains of pneumococcus..

It is a public forum, if you can't handle the replies, then don't engage in a topic!

all the best

 

[ieshia]

As for a real look at the taliban from someone who has escaped..

well let's see whose opinion should we be consumed by? a mysterious person who alleges escape? or a British journalist who was helped captive? (gangster, poor, and undereducated?)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3673730.stm


all the best

Summary of the article:
A woman went to Afghanistan as a journalist
She was exposed and of course they had to lock her up for a few days and find out if she's a harmless journalist or a spy.
They found out she's harmless
While she was locked up, the men did not want her to change in front of them, or see her undergarments.
Once she was back in her country she just kind of decided to actually do some research about Islam because she had been doing stories about the muslim countries.
After she read about Islam she realized that Islam was such a good religion, but women in muslim countries are oppressed because she has experienced this while she was visiting the muslim world during her work but she realized that is only due to culture o those countries but not the religion Islam. She realized how Islam is really a good religion after doing her own research out of curiosity and decided to convert.


hmm did you ever become a Taliban. No! I double checked.

 

[جوري]

Summary of the article:
A woman went to Afghanistan as a journalist
She was exposed and of course they had to lock her up for a few days and find out if she's a harmless journalist or a spy.
They found out she's harmless
While she was locked up, the men did not want her to change in front of them, or see her undergarments.
Once she was back in her country she just kind of decided to actually do some research about Islam because she had been doing stories about the muslim countries.
After she read about Islam she realized that Islam was such a good religion, but women in muslim countries are oppressed because she has experienced this while she was visiting the muslim world during her work but she realized that is only due to culture o those countries but not the religion Islam. She realized how Islam is really a good religion after doing her own research out of curiosity and decided to convert.


hmm did you ever become a Taliban. No! I double checked.

Again, you tickle me.. what exactly is your point? I am not the expert on the Taliban but you are? I am posing you a perfectly legitimate question, why should anyone here assume your opinion which seems to be highly influenced by western sentiment override anyone else's especially one who was there in their captivity? On the lowest common denominator, she is an actual journalist who can and has given evidence of her experience.. how can we prove that you have in fact escaped them and not bubbah from Ozark chinquapin coming to sow the seeds of discord?

all the best!

 

[ieshia]

Pls spare me the platitudes for intros.
Casualties of wars.. hardly a reason to send an already war torn country into further turmoil. Your ratiocination as to 'why people are sent there' are as sophomoric and ill researched as the conclusion of the OP that if we coax 'westerners' with some buttered up words, they'd lay off making toons about the prophet and putting Quranic verses on public toilets and cease their attack on Islam which is age old from Islam's very inception!

Who treats Islamic text with such disrespect? Wow what a terrible stereotype based on nothing because it really doesn't happen. It's just as rare as ALD. We didn't go there to hurt Afghanistan but to secure safety for the rest of the world. If we hadn't gone there, Taliban could, no actually would have spread far more and become an even bigger threat. They spread to Pakistan and we all know all the hell that broke lose after that. Would you like to see what happened in pakistan in all the neighboring countries, we went there to stop the terror from spreading. With the help of Pakistan their actions have been minimized.


That is rather amusing from someone who insinuated herself in the middle of the thread to tell us 'how it is', bringing the Quran into this is as much of a non-sequitur as bringing the black-water scandal in a thread about the 23 most common strains of pneumococcus..

It is a public forum, if you can't handle the replies, then don't engage in a topic!

all the best[/QUOTE]

Yes it's a public forum but of course i will call you out if you start to lie or start to misuse my words. How will you feel if took, "making toons about the prophet" and keep putting them all over these forums claiming that you are promoting this act.

 

[جوري]

Who treats Islamic text with such disrespect?

is one picture worthy of a thousand word?

Wow what a terrible stereotype based on nothing because it really doesn't happen.

See above, it is really nothing that a simple google search can't prove to you, unless you prefer to bury your head in the sand?

It's just as rare as ALD. We didn't go there to hurt Afghanistan but to secure safety for the rest of the world.

What is ALD? Is there world safer? you have done some research and can support your theory? also who is 'we'?

If we hadn't gone there, Taliban could, no actually would have spread far more and become an even bigger threat.

bigger threat to whom? again can you back your statement that if 'we' hadn't gone there they would have spread far and wide?

They spread to Pakistan and we all know all the hell that broke lose after that. Would you like to see what happened in pakistan in all the neighboring countries, we went there to stop the terror from spreading. With the help of Pakistan their actions have been minimized.

You sound like a ranting lunatic..

Yes it's a public forum but of course i will call you out if you start to lie or start to misuse my words. How will you feel if took, "making toons about the prophet" and keep putting them all over these forums claiming that you are promoting this act.

What lie have I started? so far I have supported the one thing I asserted directly from the BBC.. other than that, I have no idea what your last statement means it is incomprehensible.. there is more to a debate than putting words together!


all the best

 

[ieshia]

Again, you tickle me.. what exactly is your point? I am not the expert on the Taliban but you are? I am posing you a perfectly legitimate question, why should anyone here assume your opinion which seems to be highly influenced by western sentiment override anyone else's especially one who was there in their captivity? On the lowest common denominator, she is an actual journalist who can and has given evidence of her experience.. how can we prove that you have in fact escaped them and not bubbah from Ozark chinquapin coming to sow the seeds of discord?

all the best!

She never promoted the actions of Taliban or call their intentions good. She actually said those people oppress their women in those countries. The article is about someone who was curious about Islam because she was doing a project on the muslim countries so decided to learn about the religion those people follow and after she studied well she realized how great the religion was and converted.


OMG wow, i just typed in the word and the first article that came up says everything i said. Here you can see what actually happens there from someone who was forced into becoming a taliban. Please do read the entire article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...he-Talibans-torturers-I-crucified-people.html

 

[ieshia]

is one picture worthy of a thousand word?

See above, it is really nothing that a simple google search can't prove to you, unless you prefer to bury your head in the sand?

What is ALD? Is there world safer? you have done some research and can support your theory? also who is 'we'?

bigger threat to whom? again can you back your statement that if 'we' hadn't gone there they would have spread far and wide?



You sound like a ranting lunatic..





What lie have I started? so far I have supported the one thing I asserted directly from the BBC.. other than that, I have no idea what your last statement means it is incomprehensible.. there is more to a debate than putting words together!


all the best

Like is said it is RARE. Kind of like something that happened once. I didn't way it never happened i said it is so rare that you can't say that is what the people of the west do. Someone can post pictures about muslims burning churches, bibles, hindu text, and people of other religion that does not mean people of Islam do that. It doesn't happen all the time.
Alright i will say U.S instead of "we" but that is what i was referring to.

Yes when i tried to give an example of what terror is caused by taliban spreading, you just call me a ranting lunatic.

 

[جوري]

She never promoted the actions of Taliban or call their intentions good. She actually said those people oppress their women in those countries. The article is about someone who was curious about Islam because she was doing a project on the muslim countries so decided to learn about the religion those people follow and after she studied well she realized how great the religion was and converted.

Didn't promote, didn't speak out against, perhaps the point here to draw is to not generalize and demonize an entire group of people based on an infamous two of the bunch? And, actually that wasn't how she became Muslim, I can tell you are not familiar with anything at all about her, she was originally married to a Muslim and had a daughter with him and never converted then.. obviously something happened in Afghanistan that sparked interest that wasn't ignited while married to a Muslim.. Do refrain from engaging in a topic (i.e her life) without being familiar with the very rudiments of it!

OMG wow, i just typed in the word and the first article that came up says everything i said. Here you can see what actually happens there from someone who was forced into becoming a taliban. Please do read the entire article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...he-Talibans-torturers-I-crucified-people.html

Again, what is your point? I don't have to read telegraph UK to see how the Taliban's are demonized .. Isn't that the whole point of the justifications of these wars to begin with?

Ohmigawd.. two American soldiers convert to Islam in Afghanistan

http://www.eurasianet.org/insight/072707af2.shtml

I don't mind having at it tit for tat all day, but hopefully if you can't see where you are full of it, others on board can!

all the best!

 

[جوري]

Like is said it is RARE.Kind of like something that happened once. I didn't way it never happened i said it is so rare that you can't say that is what the people of the west do. Someone can post pictures about muslims burning churches, bibles, hindu text, and people of other religion that does not mean people of Islam do that. It doesn't happen all the time.

Who are you to say it is rare? you are an epidemiologist and have taken a formal survey? further do you understand what a simile is?

Alright i will say U.S instead of "we" but that is what i was referring to.

So we can generalize in this case, but make other cases into rarity purely on your whim?

Yes when i tried to give an example of what terror is caused by taliban spreading, you just call me a ranting lunatic.

And again, I question why it is that your opinion is solid and not some propagandist bull ****?

all the best

 

[ChOcCi]

Alright, Amanu, skye, forget about the minor details about what Taliban did.

They freed Afganistan from the hands of the Russians, so they did a good thing. I admit.

They oppressed the people of Afganistan in an un-Islamic way, they KLLED hazarahs all over the country. Reduced the rights of women in an UN-ISLAMIC way, KILLED / Held captive, anyone who didnt have a beard and killed hundreds of innocent people throughout Afgan for even the SLIGHTEST of reasons. Now you two tell me, is all that right or wrong.

And its a request from me to all of you, PLEASE do keep this debate respectful and flame-less. There is no need for aggression as long as everyone here decides to keep an open mind.

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Western culture IS filthy. Im glad you recognise, yet you prepared to "defend" this as their way of life. And then your saying we should change oursselves so we can change them.

So how should we go about telling the west the issues i have said is wrong( i.e adultery/alcohol)? Since your suggesting "we dont say anything", since that would increase their hatred towards us. What/How should we do it?

Finally you speak about not insulting etc etc, but you were more than happy to insult one of our sisters on this very forum with the kind of brainless comments we expect from the non-muslims. Am i seeing double standards?

Regarding terrorism, i suggest you watch this very powerful lecture by Dr Zakir Naik in full....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utHBJmQIz7g

FiAmaaniAllah

Well, my post was abit too aggressive, but at that time, I did not have the "edit" option so I couldnt make it abit more decent.. But your right, that was my bad.

Anyways, what you are not understanding is that I am not saying that we should change for their sake or we should submit to their will.

I am saying that when we try to make them understand that they are wrong, we should do it in a respectful manner, NOT a hateful manner.

For example, I seemed to have double standards here right? But you RESPECTFULLY approached me and made me realize the situation and I am in and because of the way you made me understand this, I am in full agreement with you. But what our muslim sister there was doing, was FLAMING the west demeaning them and thats what really annoyed me so I unintentionally got abit aggressive in my response and I even apologized for that.

See, now if you flamed me and demeaned me in your post about my double standards, chances are that I would not have learned anything and flamed you back. And I am sure, I managed to make ALOT of you in these forums abit angry at me so I KNOW that you had to control some amount of anger / hatred towards me in order to make your post nice and respectful. Thats what we dont give to the westerns. Respect. When they flame us, (similar to what I sometimes do) we flame them back and THIS has to change. And we wont do this for THEIR sake, we will do this for Allah's sake as if we do this, it will be easier for them to see the right path and it would help Islam in the long run. And I for one am willing to make this change and I would like you guys to do so too.

So the bottomline of all my banter? Let us show the westerns some RESPECT instead of returning their insults with more insults for once as it will not only reduce the number of enemies against Islam, it will also open up a path for the people of other religions to open their minds to Islam and understand what a beautiful religion we have. And we will do this for Allah's (swt) sake and Islams sake.

I have no idea why you guys are actually opposing this in the first place.. dont you WANT them to give Islam a chance? Like I said, it seems to me that you guys would rather stoop down to their level and criticize them instead of wanting to show them the right path.

P.S I didnt say adultery and drugs are not true. I stated that the fact that westerns dont wash their hands after using the toilet is not true. There are cases, but only immigrants from south east asia are usually talked about for doing such things... Normally, these toilet etiquette are taught quite well enough there.

 

[Rasema]

Sweetness just makes you suffer.
They will never stop mocking Islam.

:wa: