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glo
06-12-2010, 02:31 PM
Earlier this week I went on a course on 'Bereavement and Loss'.

One of the topics the trainer covered was the importance of being sensitive to the cultural, religious and personal needs of a dying person.

He told the story of a Hindu guy, who was close to death, and who had come to the hospice in great pain.
The nursing staff went to set up his room and to prepare his pain relief ... but he fought off the nurses when they tried to set up the intravenous needle for his pain relief. Eventually he was able to explain that he did not want any pain relief!
According to his beliefs, he was living this life in order to learn certain lessons. Many of those lessons were learned through pain and suffering. Therefore that experience of pain was important and beneficial to him. Having the pain taken away, meant to remove his suffering and therefore prevent him from learning his lesson ...
It was very hard for the nurses and medical staff - but they had to step back and allow him his wish to die in pain and without pain relief!


The trainer also told about ablution facilities they provided in the hospice for Muslim patients.
And also how important the correct pain relief was for Muslims - enough medication to allow patients to complete their religious rituals; but not too much, as this may prevent patients from being alert enough to complete the ritual with meaning and full awareness.

I am left with two questions on this topic.

1.For Muslims, what exactly are the rituals a Muslim should ideally complete before death?


2. For followers of other religions, what would be important for you to do or say before your death?
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Pygoscelis
06-14-2010, 04:08 PM
Reminds me of Mother Theresa, who set up her home for the dying in Calcutta to purposefully be just the bare essentials and to not bring in much comfort or medicine. She believed that suffering brought people closer to Jesus and so people should suffer. Deplorable but apparently not unique.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
06-14-2010, 04:25 PM
Just quick reminder; a smart person is a person that thinks of death frequently.

Muslims should families should always make sure that the deceased person body parts such as the organs are not taking away in the hospitals because some countries they do it without consent especially when a person dies of a car accident.
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Woodrow
06-14-2010, 04:30 PM
Peace Glo,

I will only speak for myself. I personally would not want any pain medication. But that is for a combination of reasons, For over 20 years the VA had me heavily over medicated and I will never go back to that stage no matter how near death I may be or how much pain I feel, to me a clear mind is more important than pain relief. Outside of that I would want to know the direction of the Qiblah and the prayer times.
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glo
06-14-2010, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Peace Glo,

I will only speak for myself. I personally would not want any pain medication. But that is for a combination of reasons, For over 20 years the VA had me heavily over medicated and I will never go back to that stage
What's the VA?

no matter how near death I may be or how much pain I feel, to me a clear mind is more important than pain relief.
I can understand that.
But I guess that pain could be so strong that it would affect one's clarity of mind. Would it then not be better to have at least a certain level of pain relief?
What if pain relief would enable you to perform Salāh? Would you accept it then?


Are there certain words a Muslim would like to say at the moment of dying?
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glo
06-14-2010, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Reminds me of Mother Theresa, who set up her home for the dying in Calcutta to purposefully be just the bare essentials and to not bring in much comfort or medicine. She believed that suffering brought people closer to Jesus and so people should suffer. Deplorable but apparently not unique.
I don't think I could quite go along with that thinking ...
Human suffering should surely be avoided, if at all possible.

As for the Hindu guy in my story, one of my atheist friends felt that probably due to his pain he did not have the mental capacity to make such a decision, and that he should have been sectioned and been given pain relief against his wishes.
I don't think I can agree with my friend there. Humans should surely be given choices, if at all possible.

What do you think?
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Asiyah3
06-14-2010, 06:20 PM
I'm also speaking only for myself. Insha'Allah I'd like to say the shahadah before death - Ash-hadu an laa ilaaha illallaah wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan rasool-ullaah.

I remember I saw a very wonderful dream in which I died and before my death I pronounced the shahaadah al-hamdulillah. May Allah fulfill it.

I wish to know before my death that I'll die soon, like to have something like an illness so insha'Allah I can prepare to meet Allah and insha'Allah Allah will expiate my sins thereby.
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Woodrow
06-14-2010, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by glo
What's the VA?


I can understand that.
But I guess that pain could be so strong that it would affect one's clarity of mind. Would it then not be better to have at least a certain level of pain relief?
What if pain relief would enable you to perform Salāh? Would you accept it then?


Are there certain words a Muslim would like to say at the moment of dying?
The VA is the Veteran's Administration. It provides medical care for former military that are disabled because of service connected injuries among other things. Both my wife and my self are considered service connected disabled.

As for pain control, I have developed considerable tolerance for pain since I stopped taking all pain meds a few years back. to be honest there were more than a few times I was tempted to get my old prescriptions refilled. But, over time I learned to live with pain and at I really do prefer even severe pain over being brain numb as I had been from the blasted pain meds.

As for last words I would like to have the time to say "Bismillah irRahman irRaheem, Ashadu an la ilaha illa illa-ilah, wa ashadu anna muhammadan rasul ullah."
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Ramadhan
06-15-2010, 04:24 AM
Originally Posted by glo
Are there certain words a Muslim would like to say at the moment of dying?

ALL muslims Insya Allah are dying (no pun intended) to say this final testimony:

Ashadu an la ilaha illa illa-ilah, wa ashadu anna muhammadan rasul ullah


"I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's messenger"

May Allah SWT fulfill my wish to proclaim this testimony right before my dying moment.
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tango92
06-15-2010, 06:14 AM
"O ye who believe! Fear God as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam." (Quran 3:102).
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Amat Allah
06-15-2010, 11:12 AM
May Allah purify all Muslims from all sins be pleased with them and bless them with saying The Shahadah before death...Yaaaa Rabbb Ameeeeeeeeen Thumma Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeen Thumma Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen...:cry::cry::cr y:
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Danah
06-15-2010, 11:17 AM
The best thing I will wish for in my last minutes before I die is saying the Shahadatain (testimony of faith): there is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
06-15-2010, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by Amat Allah
May Allah purify all Muslims from all sins be pleased with them and bless them with saying The Shahadah before death...Yaaaa Rabbb Ameeeeeeeeen Thumma Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeen Thumma Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen...:cry::cry::cr y:
Ameeeeeeeeen
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Grace Seeker
06-15-2010, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Danah
The best thing I will wish for in my last minutes before I die is saying the Shahadatain (testimony of faith): there is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger.

Of course you have already said it, and I trust probably affirm it frequently as just a part of who you are and how you live. So, help me to understand what is so special about saying it in the moment before death? Most people I watch die pass into unconsciousness a significant period of time before they actually die. Would having said it 2 or 3 days before you die, but say within the last couple of hours of conscious conversation be the same as saying it at the time of one's death? Why or why not?
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bhakti
07-24-2010, 02:04 AM
The topic reminds me of a beautiful sloka/verse in the Varaha Purana:

sthitE manasi susvasthE shareerE sati yO narah |
dhAtu-sAMye sthitE smartA vishvaroopam ca mAmajam ||

tatastam mriyamANam tu kAShTa-pAShANa-sannibham |
aham smarAmi madbhaktam nayAmi paramAm gathim ||”

Those that think of me, while they are still in a state of tranquil mind and
healthy body and reflect upon my all-pervasiveness, then I think of them at their
last moments
, when they they lie like a log or a stone and lead
them to me.
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glo
07-24-2010, 06:56 AM
Thank you, bhakti

Being a Hindu yourself, can you relate to the story I mentioned in my first post?
He told the story of a Hindu guy, who was close to death, and who had come to the hospice in great pain.
The nursing staff went to set up his room and to prepare his pain relief ... but he fought off the nurses when they tried to set up the intravenous needle for his pain relief. Eventually he was able to explain that he did not want any pain relief!
According to his beliefs, he was living this life in order to learn certain lessons. Many of those lessons were learned through pain and suffering. Therefore that experience of pain was important and beneficial to him. Having the pain taken away, meant to remove his suffering and therefore prevent him from learning his lesson ...
It was very hard for the nurses and medical staff - but they had to step back and allow him his wish to die in pain and without pain relief!
Reply

bhakti
07-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Personally I wouldn't do that. If I have lived a good life with bhakti in my heart and have always wished good for others, that's enough. Life is not about proving your faith or anything. Just doing a little something more at the time of death is not going to change anything.

However, every man takes his own way. If undergoing pain is what makes the guy happy and gives him a sense of accomplishment and fulfillment then so be it as long as he isn't being a nuisance to the people around him! I would definitely not criticize or ridicule him.

There's no ONE TRUE WAY to doing things.
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Danah
07-24-2010, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Of course you have already said it, and I trust probably affirm it frequently as just a part of who you are and how you live. So, help me to understand what is so special about saying it in the moment before death?
I am sorry I didn't notice this earlier.
There is a hadeeth for the prophet where he said: "Whosoever last words are: La ilaha illa Allah, will enter Paradise." [Abu Dawud, Sahih]



Most people I watch die pass into unconsciousness a significant period of time before they actually die. Would having said it 2 or 3 days before you die, but say within the last couple of hours of conscious conversation be the same as saying it at the time of one's death? Why or why not?
The hadeeth said last words, it didn't say last moments, so if he became unconscious after saying those words then die they will be considered as last words. Allah knows best. I can't say for sure sure. This is a good question though, I shall search about it and will come back with a more accurate answer inshaAllah.

I hope someone more knowledgeable will come a long and clarify more though.
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Muslimeen
07-28-2010, 09:07 AM
To pronounce the shahada at the time of death. I would also like to be in the month of Ramadaan preferably whilst fasting and in the holy city of Madinah.

More than all of this I wish to die on the battle field, fighting for the course of allah, with no other intention but for the pleasure of allah. I wish to be resurructed on the day of qiyamah with blood flowing from all parts of my body, so that if I am asked what happend to me, I will be able to say I sacrificed my life for allah and my blood will bear testimony to this fact.

This is a deep seated desire in my heart, if only, I had the courage, if only, allah considered me worthy, if only, my desires could be turned into actions, if only, I knew how to wage jihad in the name of allah.

This would be the ultimate prize for me, talk about hitting the lottery, this will be my lottery.
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Grace Seeker
08-04-2010, 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by Muslimeen
More than all of this I wish to die on the battle field, fighting for the course of allah, with no other intention but for the pleasure of allah. I wish to be resurructed on the day of qiyamah with blood flowing from all parts of my body, so that if I am asked what happend to me, I will be able to say I sacrificed my life for allah and my blood will bear testimony to this fact.

This is a deep seated desire in my heart.
I've known Christians who said similar things with regard to dying on the mission field. Indeed one good friend of mine was praying so fervently that he might be able to die for God and let him become a martyr in this way that God actually responded and spoke to him saying, "What if I should ask you not to die for me, but live for me?" He says he realized that he was using the idea of dying for God as a way of escaping from the responsibility of the daily grind of living for God that God wanted of him. That death (at least for him, not saying for all) was relatively easy compared to life which involved a daily dying to self in order to live according to God's will and way of life.

Would those thoughts (what God asked my friend to reflect on) resonate within an Islamic mindset or would they be foreign to it?
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Muslimeen
08-04-2010, 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I've known Christians who said similar things with regard to dying on the mission field. Indeed one good friend of mine was praying so fervently that he might be able to die for God and let him become a martyr in this way that God actually responded and spoke to him saying, "What if I should ask you not to die for me, but live for me?" He says he realized that he was using the idea of dying for God as a way of escaping from the responsibility of the daily grind of living for God that God wanted of him. That death (at least for him, not saying for all) was relatively easy compared to life which involved a daily dying to self in order to live according to God's will and way of life.

Would those thoughts (what God asked my friend to reflect on) resonate within an Islamic mindset or would they be foreign to it?
It would boil down to intention I suppose. If you are sincere and want to die only for the pleasure of god rather than having to escape from the everyday grind.

My opinion is that every muslim should be living for god irrespective of his situation and the final test of faith would be that he is prepared to part from the comforts of this world, family, wealth etc. for the pleasure of god alone. I suppose that is why suicide is forbidden in Islam, because you live for allah and his pleasure and none of the difficulties in life should turn you away from this it should bring you closer to him. The same way dying in the path of god would bring you closer to him. In my opinion I would think the highest form of love for someone would be when you are prepared to lay down your life for them, hence the high rank afforded to martyrs in Islam.
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Trumble
08-04-2010, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by Muslimeen
More than all of this I wish to die on the battle field, fighting for the course of allah, with no other intention but for the pleasure of allah. I wish to be resurructed on the day of qiyamah with blood flowing from all parts of my body, so that if I am asked what happend to me, I will be able to say I sacrificed my life for allah and my blood will bear testimony to this fact.
Or you could die peacefully in bed after a long life of helping others to have better lives, rather than killing and maiming them. Your call as to which Allah might prefer.

Listen, there is no such thing as "dying for Allah". An omnipotent God by definition needs nobody to die promoting His interests; He can sort those out himself without all that flowing blood. All that phrase ever means is dying for the sake of furthering somebody else's interests, somebody very human, and invoking the 'name of Allah' to motivate the young and the gullible to die for their benefit.
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Muslimeen
08-04-2010, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Or you could die peacefully in bed after a long life of helping others to have better lives, rather than killing and maiming them. Your call as to which Allah might prefer.

Listen, there is no such thing as "dying for Allah". An omnipotent God by definition needs nobody to die promoting His interests; He can sort those out himself without all that flowing blood. All that phrase ever means is dying for the sake of furthering somebody else's interests, somebody very human, and invoking the 'name of Allah' to motivate the young and the gullible to die for their benefit.
How is defending your religion, mosques, homes, the honour and dignity of your mothers and sisters, like in Iraq or Afghanistan regarded as furthering somebody else's interests??

Your statements remind me of the following verse of the quran:

And when it is said to them: Spend out of what Allah has given you, those who disbelieve say to those who believe: Shall we feed him whom, if Allah please, He could feed? You are in naught but clear error. (Surah Yasin)

Would you say the same about a dying man or hungry child on the side of the street?? Why should I help? Allah should help them. You are missing the point, allah does not need us, we need him, these are opportunities for us to gain closeness to him. To fight oppression is not frowned upon by anyone, but why is it frowned upon if fought in the name of Allah, if I said I was going to die for my country or for the liberation of people, would your response have been the same??

I am sure you would'nt mind dying for your country, family or defending what you believe in, so why the double standards?? Just because it is in the name of ALLAH??
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Trumble
08-04-2010, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimeen
How is defending your religion, mosques, homes, the honour and dignity of your mothers and sisters, like in Iraq or Afghanistan regarded as furthering somebody else's interests??
Because that isn't what is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is exactly my point. It has nothing to do with "mosques, homes, the honour and dignity of your mothers and sisters", only the battle for control between groups and factions. It's always that way.

To fight oppression is not frowned upon by anyone, but why is it frowned upon if fought in the name of Allah, if I said I was going to die for my country or for the liberation of people, would your response have been the same??
A country is nothing to die for, it's words on a page and lines on a map. It's people that are important. But when some people have to invoke patriotism to motivate people to fight their war, something stinks somewhere, just as it does when they invoke religion. In the case of fighting oppression, or the genuine 'liberation' of anybody, neither is necessary - the justice of the cause is self-evident.
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Muslim Woman
08-04-2010, 03:50 PM
Salaam/Peace

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
... what is so special about saying it in the moment before death?
unwillingly and unknowingly we may commit blasphemy. Take this example : someone helped me and I thank him/her like this : I am so lucky , u were there to help me ; if u did not help me .........etc etc . Sometimes we forget to thank God Almighty for sending the right peron at the correct moment . So , while thanking someone for help , we should always first show gratitude to God .

Thus , unconsiously we may commit a kind of shirk i.e show gratitude to someone else except God .

Before sleep , I utter the Shahada so that if i die in sleep , i die with faith in one God and His messenger . Before death , I and all Muslims should want to utter the Shahada.
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Muslimeen
08-05-2010, 06:24 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Because that isn't what is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is exactly my point. It has nothing to do with "mosques, homes, the honour and dignity of your mothers and sisters", only the battle for control between groups and factions. It's always that way.

A country is nothing to die for, it's words on a page and lines on a map. It's people that are important. But when some people have to invoke patriotism to motivate people to fight their war, something stinks somewhere, just as it does when they invoke religion. In the case of fighting oppression, or the genuine 'liberation' of anybody, neither is necessary - the justice of the cause is self-evident.
It is obvious that one group would be fighting another and for control, it is what the group stands for that matters. eg. establishing shariah law, and ridding the country of foreign invasion like in Afghanistan.

In your opinion it seems nothing is worth dying for, in my opinion that is cowardice. I don't like war or the suffering that it brings with it, but if anyone brings it to our shores I am prepared to die fighting them, Islam teaches us to fight oppression.
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Vigno
08-05-2010, 01:30 PM
Asalamu Alekum

I would also love to die while fighting for Allah, not because am blood thirsty, that's not what Islam is about, but because I love Allah and that's the least I could do for Him. But if that doesn't happen then I would love to die while am fasting and bowing down to Allah with tears in my eyes. It would be so wonderful if that could happen while am performing Hajj. You know just thinking of this makes me so happy although whenever I think of the day of judgment I can't but shiver... I pray we all have a good end inshallah ameen.

asalamu alekum
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Argamemnon
08-11-2010, 03:31 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Because that isn't what is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is exactly my point. It has nothing to do with "mosques, homes, the honour and dignity of your mothers and sisters", only the battle for control between groups and factions. It's always that way.

5 Million Iraqis Killed, Maimed, Tortured, Displaced -- Think That Bothers War Boosters Like Christopher Hitchens?

http://www.alternet.org/story/147281...opher_hitchens
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