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Snowflake
06-23-2012, 08:28 PM
Immunizations - Harmful to your Child or Not?



By Dr. Aisha Hamdan

“Immunizations the best thing to protect your child from a variety of diseases.”



You hear this from your doctor from the media, from the brochures in the clinic, from your friends. But, did you ever stop to think twice about what it all means?


Did you ever look deeper into the issue and the other side of the story?
Well let’s read on…..


Your child is just born and one of the first things you do is call the clinic to schedule an appointment for your first “well-baby” visit. During the visit, after about 1 or 2 months, you can expect your baby to be weighed, measured, and put through excruciating pain from several shots in the leg. Your baby has just received his first immunization (or vaccination) shots and you allow it to happen without even questioning. It is just assumed that your pediatrician has your best interests in mind and that immunizations are the best thing to protect your child from a variety of diseases. You hear this from your doctor, from the media, from the brochures in the clinic, from your friends. You figure that the pain your baby has just gone through is worth the protection that he receives.
But, did you ever stop to think twice about what it all means? Did you ever look deeper into the issue and read the other side of the story? (The one that is not provided by your doctor). Did you know, for example, that immunizations may cause serious side effects in children, even as serious as death? Did you know that immunizations actually weaken the immune system and make it work less effectively and efficiently? Were you aware that immunizations contain harmful chemicals that are not indigenous to the body? Did you know that your child might still contract a disease even if he or she has been immunized against?


If you have a new baby, a young child or are considering having children in the future, these are concerns that you want to investigate and learn more about. Many parents have, and they have decided NOT to immunise their children. Let us look into this matter more closely and also consider it form an Islamic perspective. The health and well being of your child may be at stake.


Myths and Realities

Myth 1. “Vaccines are effective at protecting people from diseases”
Reality: Many studies in the medical literature have documented vaccine failure. Measles, mumps, small pox, polio and Hib outbreaks have all occurred in vaccinated populations. In 1989, for example measles outbreaks occurred in schools with vaccination levels greater than 98% (Centres for Disease Control). The World Health Organization has actually found that a person who is vaccinated for measles has a 15 times greater likelihood of contracting the disease than a person who is not. The effectiveness of the whooping cough (pertussis) vaccine has been reported to be around 50%. In an incident in Kansas in 1986, 90% of pertussis cases were found to have been vaccinated. In another study of rubella, 36% of adolescent females who had been vaccinated against the disease lacked evidence of immunity by blood tests. Following the introduction of the diphtheria vaccine in various countries, incidents of the disease actually increased phenomenally. In France, there was a 30% increase; in Hungary, a 55% increase; and in Geneva, Switzerland, there was a tripling of the disease. All of this occurring after the introduction of mass compulsory vaccinations in those countries. In Australia, where vaccinations are not mandatory and only about ½ of the population receives them, the rates of illness are the same for both the vaccinated and non-vaccinated groups.
What all of these facts point to (and there are many more related to this) is that vaccinations are not as effective as people are made to believe. A person who has been vaccinated has no guarantee that he will not contract the disease and chances are that if he does, it will be at a later age when the consequences are much more serious. The truth of the matter is that when immunity to disease is acquired naturally (such as through breastfeeding or through contact at a young age), the possibility of re-infection is only 3.2%. If the “immunity” comes from the artificial means of vaccinations, the chance of re-infection is 80%. In any epidemic, only a small percentage of the population actually contracts the disease, many of them being naturally immune. If a person who has been vaccinated does not contract the disease, this proves nothing. Chances are that even without the vaccination, he or she would not have gotten the disease any way.

Myth 2: “Vaccines are the main reason for declines in disease rates”
Reality: Most declines in diseases occurred before the introduction of mass immunizations. Infectious disease deaths in the United States and England declined an average of 80% prior to vaccinations. The British Association for the Advancement of Science found that childhood diseases decreased by 90% between 1850 and 1940, long before mandatory vaccination programs. European countries that refused immunizations for small pox and polio saw these epidemics end along with countries that had mandated them. Other infectious diseases continued to decline even in the absence of vaccines for them. This included declines in tuberculosis, chicken pox, scarlet fever, typhus, typhoid and plague.


So what, you may ask, were the reasons for the decrease in diseases at this point in time. Research has found that improved sanitation and hygienic practices; along with improvements in diet and other health factors were the main contributing factors in eradication many diseases. A recent report by the World Health Organization supported this fact. The report found that “disease and mortality rates in third world countries have no direct correlation with immunization procedures or medical treatment, but are closely related to the standard of diet and hygiene.” What this means is that it is not as important to be immunized as it is to eat healthily and maintain personal hygiene and environmental cleanliness.


Myth 3: “Vaccines are completely safe for children.”

Reality: Vaccines are much more dangerous than we are even aware of. This is information that you will probably not receive from your doctor and if you child does have a reaction, it is unlikely that your doctor will report it. In 1986, the United States Congress created The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, which acknowledges the reality of vaccine-caused injuries and death. This law requires doctors to provide parents with information about the benefits and risks of childhood vaccines prior to vaccination and also requires doctors to report vaccine reactions to federal health officials. The Food and Drug Administration, which monitors this (along with the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention), acknowledged that 90% of doctors do not report vaccine reactions as required by law.
More than 12,000 adverse reactions to vaccines are reported each year. If the rate of under-reporting is considered, this number should be closer to 120,000. Vaccine-related deaths occurring each year may be over 1000. The compensation portion of the Vaccine Injury Act awards up to $250,000 if a child dies from a vaccination or millions in dollars to cover lifelong medical bills, pain and suffering in the case of a brain-damaged child. By 1997, more than $802 million had been awarded for hundreds of injuries and deaths (5000 cases, 700 of which were deaths). Thousands of cases are still pending and the estimated future liability for the government exceeds $1.7 billion. A portion of the money that parents pay for vaccinations goes to this congressional fund, which basically means that you are paying insurance each time your child is vaccinated.



In many cases, vaccinations are more serious than the diseases they are meant to protect a person from. The pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine is probably the most dangerous. The chances of suffering a serious adverse reaction to DPT vaccines are 1 in 1750, while the chances of dying from pertussis each year are 1 in several million. A study at UCLA found that 1 in 13 children had persistent high pitched crying after the DPT shot. One in 700 had convulsions or shock, which may cause learning disabilities or brain damage. Vaccinations, in general, have been linked to disorders of the blood, brain, skin, and nervous system. This includes encephalitis (central nervous system disorder, brain damage), paralysis, nerve inflammation, diseases of the lymph glands, skin disorders, allergies, arthritis, cancer.
National and International studies have shown a link between vaccinations and SIDS (sudden Infant Death Syndrome). One study found that the peak incidence of SIDS occurred at the ages of 2 and 4 months, the time when the first routine vaccinations are given. Another study concluded that ½ of SIDS cases (2500 of 5000) are related to vaccinations. In the mid-70’s, when Japan raised their vaccinations age from 2 months to 2 years, the incidence of SIDS dropped dramatically. The disturbing fact in the United State is that coroners refuse to check the vaccination state of SIDS victims, which makes it difficult to prove many cases.



Other important truths to consider include the fact that vaccinations actually weaken the immune system rather than strengthen it. They only focus on one aspect of the immune system, which interferes with the body’s ability to initiate a “generalized response”. Only that one particular aspect of the system will function. What this means is that the vaccinations produce immune suppression which contributes to an increased susceptibility to other diseases and infections. This may explain why the rate of childhood illness has actually increased rather than decreased in this society. Vaccinations also contain additional chemicals such as formaldehyde, mercury (thimerosal), and aluminum phosphate, which are extremely toxic substances that can lead to hazardous effects. Microscopic doses may lead to cancer, neurological damage, and even death. Several of these may accumulate in the body such that the lethality increases as the number of vaccine increase.
And the story continues. This is only the tip of the iceberg and there is a larger amount of information available for those who wish to learn more (see websites listed below). It is important that parents become educated and knowledgeable about immunizations so that they can make an informed choice rather than be manipulated by the medical establishment.
It is important that parents become educated and knowledgeable about immunizations so that they can make an informed choice rather than be manipulated by the medical establishment.
An Islamic Perspective
From an Islamic perspective there are several issues that need to be considered in relation to this topic. This discussion goes much deeper than the mere physical effects of immunizations. We need to peruse the Creation of Allah, subhanahu wa ta’ala, and its perfection, the Provisions and Sustenance provided to us by Allah, and Will of Allah as it pertains to our existence. Let us proceed.

Creation of Allah
Allah says, “We have indeed created man in the best of moulds.” (95:4). The Arabic word in this verse is taqweem, which can be translated as mold, form, nature, constitution. Although this especially refers to the spiritual nature of man, it can also mean the mental and physical structure. There is no faulty in Allah’s creation. Allah gave man the purest and best nature, and perfection and balance are evident in man’s physical, mental, and spiritual composition.
Allah, subhanahu wa ta’la, says,


“O mankind! What has made you careless concerning your Lord, the Most Generous? Who created you, fashioned you, and gave you due proportion; in whatever form He willed, He put you together.” (Qur’an 82:6-8).



Focusing on the physical aspect, one need only study the systems of the body to comprehend the significance of these verses and the wonder of Allah’s creation. The human body is composed of a number of specialized systems: the digestive system, the respiratory system, the nervous system, the muscular system, the blood circulation system, the skeleton, the skin, the senses, the immune system and so forth. Each one of these system is miraculous in nature and more amazing than any scientific advancement that man can achieve. (Sayyid Qutb, In the Shade of the Qur’an). Why then is man so heedless? Why does he overlook the wonders of his own constitution? Why does he neglect the One who gave him these special gifts? “O mankind! What has made you careless concerning our Lord, the Most Generous?” Why does he think that he can improve the perfect creation of Allah and make it work more effectively?


Concerning immunizations, this is exactly what humans are attempting to do. The assumption behind them is that the body is not “perfect” enough to withstand infectious diseases; that somehow Allah did not complete his job or carry it out well enough (astaghfir Allah); that the immune system is faulty and needs correction; that a young baby, as little as 1 or 2 months old, is somehow flawed, incomplete, and in need of human intervention to survive. All of these assumptions are erroneous and reflect a skepticism that should not be present in the belief system of a Muslim. This may seem like an intense subject for what would appear to be a straight forward issue, but a deeper level of analysis is required here. One cannot doubt the verses of the Qur’an highlighted above nor expect that he can accomplish more than Allah. As Muslims we should not fall into this kind of trap. We must believe in the perfection of Allah’s creation and understand that immunizations are in no way able to improve upon it. Chances are that they will only disturb the system and introduce an imperfection, (which is already being determined by research).


Provisions of Allah
Allah, subhanahu wa ta’ala, not only created us in the finest form, but He also gave us the tools to maintain this form and to assist in its self-actualization. We are warned that our body and our health are gifts from Allah and that we will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment of them. The Prophet (pbuh) informed us, “Every servant of Allah will remain standing before Allah on the Day of Judgment until he has answered five questions about five things; his life – how he spent it; his knowledge – how much he acted upon it; his wealth – how he acquired it and how he spent it; and his body (and health) – how he used it.” (Muslims). The Prophet (Pbuh) also said, “There are two blessings which many people lose: (They are) health and free time for doing good.” (Bukhari)
It is incumbent upon a Muslim to take care of his body to the best of his ability and to follow what Allah has ordained in this regard. The provisions of Allah are many. A mother is instructed to nurse her child from the moment of birth. Allah says,


“Mothers shall nurse their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing (period).” (Qur’an 2:233).



Breast milk has been found to be the most beneficial substance for a baby and contains much more than nutrients. It also provides antibodies, strengthens the immune system, and protects the child from many diseases. This is a wondrous gift that gives an already healthy baby an even healthier start in life.


Muslims are instructed to eat from the good and lawful food of the earth.
“They ask you what is lawful to them (as food): say: Lawful unto you are (all) things good and pure.” (Qur’an 5:4)

“O you people! Eat of what is on earth lawful and good; and do not follow the footsteps of the evil one for he is to you an avowed enemy.” (Qur’an 2:168).



We now know the benefits of eating healthy and pure food and avoiding all that is harmful to our bodies. The use of honey, black seed, dates, olive oil, etc. are encouraged to prevent illness and as cures when the need arises. The type of food that we eat can affect all of our bodily systems, oftentimes in very insidious ways.
Other provisions that Allah, subhanahu wa ta’ala, has given us include the command to avoid alcohol and all types of drugs, which can lead to serious consequences (health-related and others). Adultery and fornication are forbidden, which can cause various types of sexually transmitted diseases. Pork and pork products, which may lead to various illnesses, are also not allowed. And so on…..



What this means in relation to immunizations is that they are really unnecessary. For one who follows the commands of Allah, the chances of having long-term health will be increased. Even if a disease is contracted, the person with a strong immune system will likely be able to combat it. This in turn, will strengthen the immune system more and give life-long immunity to that particular disease. As mentioned earlier, immunizations actually have weaken the immune system and led to all types of problems in children. Their use has even upset the epidemiology of illnesses, causing them to appear more often in adulthood when the effects are usually much more serious. It is evident from all of this that manipulation and altering Allah’s creation only leads to detrimental outcomes.



Will of Allah

We often forget that what happens in our lives comes from the Will and Power of Allah. Nothing occurs except what has been decreed by Allah. Although we do have some limited control over events, the ultimate control is with Us are its depositories, and We do not send it down except according to a known (specified) measure.” (15:21).


“Say you (o Muhammad): ‘Indeed the affairs belong wholly to Allah.’ (Qur’an 3:154)
If a child is to experience an illness, this is from the decree of Allah; and if he is to be cured from it, this is also from the decree of Allah. To rely upon humans to somehow prevent or cure the child without also trusting in Allah, is a sign of weakness in faith. Whatever good or bad happens to us we should say “Alhumdulillah” because it is from Allah and He has decreed it for some reason (either as a test or as punishment). Allah says,
“No calamity befalls, but with the leave (decision and Qadar) of Allah, and whosoever believes in Allah, He guides his heart, and Allah is the all Knower of everything.” (Qur’an 64:11).


We should rely upon Allah and ask Him to assist us in our times of need. The use of ruqya (supplication to Allah) is much more powerful than any medicine that is available because Allah is the only One Who can send the cure.



Conclusion

Although Islam is not contrary to medical and technological “Development”, it is important to understand that these are not always in our best interests. Many of these “advancements” have actually led to serious, detrimental outcomes. Television, for example, has been lauded as one of the major inventions of this century, but at the same time it has lead to the numbing of children’s minds, a decline in communication within families, and misguidance for many. Immunizations are touted as a miraculous form of illness prevention, when in fact they are nothing more than a moneymaking scheme for doctors and pharmaceutical companies. They have, in actuality, caused more hams than benefits and have disrupted the natural order of Allah’s Creation.
Before you take your child for; his or her next round of immunizations consider this important information and research the topic further. It is in the best interests of your child to do so. Look to Allah’s guidance (the Qur’an and Sunnah) for assistance in all matters, including physical health. If we follow Allah’s plan in creation and submit to His commands, there should be no need for artificial interventions. Allah, subhanahu wa ta’ala, ha provided us with bounties beyond our imagination and they are readily and naturally available to us. We only need to make use of them.
The Shocking Facts:
By the time a child enters first grade, he or she will have received as many as 10 different vaccines for a total of 19 shots. 98% of children living in the United State receive the recommended shots

  • The numbers of vaccines has doubled in the last decade
  • New vaccines are coming out on a more regular basis
  • The United Nations has committed $150 million to develop a “Super Vaccine” to provide immunity against 30 childhood diseases in a single shot.

In 1950, before mass immunizations began, the United States had the third lowest infant mortality rate in the world. By 1995, it dropped to 23rd place and is world renowned for its appalling infant mortality rate.
Vaccination Websites:
Think twice Global Vaccine Institute.
www.thinktwice.com
(Contains a link for the New Atlantean Press which publishes and sells book on vaccinations).
www.unc.edu/-aphillip/www/chf/index.htm
Dispelling Vaccination Myths

www.unc.edu/-aphillip/www/vaccine/dvm1.htm
Vaccine and Immunization Information Links.
www.unc.edu/aphillip/www/vaccine/vacpages.htm
National Vaccine Information Center
www.909shot.com
Global Vaccine Awareness League
www.gval.com
Vaccines: The Truth Revealed
www.odomnet.com/vaccines/intro-duc.htm

http://www.missionislam.com/health/i...nhurtornot.htm
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جوري
06-23-2012, 08:32 PM
Dr. Aisha Hamdan per my research is an Assistant Professor of Clinical Psychology.. I'd like to see her work in preventative medicine, immunology/virology/epidemiology and ongoing research in vaccinations.

:w:
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Tyrion
06-23-2012, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Snowflake
Why does he think that he can improve the perfect creation of Allah and make it work more effectively?


Concerning immunizations, this is exactly what humans are attempting to do. The assumption behind them is that the body is not “perfect” enough to withstand infectious diseases; that somehow Allah did not complete his job or carry it out well enough (astaghfir Allah); that the immune system is faulty and needs correction; that a young baby, as little as 1 or 2 months old, is somehow flawed, incomplete, and in need of human intervention to survive.
I'm sorry, but this is such BS...
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cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-23-2012, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrion

I'm sorry, but this is such BS...
How is it BS? Please explain.

Here's another article that may be of interest on this topic sis snowflake :)


A. Majid Katme, MBBCh, DPM (medical doctor)Spokesman, Islamic Medical Association (UK)
January 21, 2011
We are giving our innocent children haraam (forbidden) substances and harmful chemicals that destroy their natural immune systems, causing disease, suffering and death. All Muslim doctors and parents should be aware of vaccine ingredients, and of the failed efficacy of vaccines. The harm is clearly greater than the benefit. The time has come to take a stand for truth.
Vaccine Ingredients

Vaccine ingredients include heavy metals, pus from sores of diseased animals, horse serum, calf serum, faecal matter, foetal cells, urine, macerated cancer cells, sweepings from diseased children, formaldehyde (a carcinogen used in embalming fluid), phenol (a carcinogen capable of causing paralysis, convulsions, coma, necrosis and gangrene), lactalbumin hydrolysate (an emulsifier), aluminium phosphate (an aluminium salt that is corrosive to tissues), retro-virus SV-40 (a contaminant virus in some polio vaccines), antibiotics (e.g., neomycin tm) that lead to antibiotic resistance, chick embryo (as a growth medium for the virus), sodium phosphate (a buffering salt), and foreign animal tissues containing genetic material (DNA/RNA) from the growth medium. Vaccines are also contaminated with mycoplasma, bacteria, monkey viruses and various adjuvants. Heavy metals includethiomersal (mercury) as a preservative and aluminium as an adjuvant. Mercury and aluminium have each been proved to damage the brain and nervous system. In some cases, thiomersal has been replaced by another neurotoxin known as 2PE. Vaccines also contain monosodium glutamate (MSG), sorbitol, and gelatine. Many of these ingredients are not allowed for Muslims, Jews, Hindus or vegetarians.
A Fatally-flawed System of Intervention

Vaccination is based on the long-discredited theory that stimulation of antibodies in the human body equals protection from disease. This theory has not only failed to be proved, but has been repeatedly disproved. Stimulation of antibodies does not equal immunity and certainly does not equal permanent immunity. The presence of antibodies is merely a sign of exposure to a disease, which is just one small aspect of what makes up the immune system. Children, with underdeveloped and immature immune systems, receive today about 25 separate vaccines by the age of 13 months. There is no doubt this irresponsible system disrupts and can even destroy the development of their immune systems forever.
Vaccines commonly given to children in the United Kingdom today include – TWO MONTHS: diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, HIB meningitis and polio + pneumococcal (six components, two needles); THREE MONTHS: diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, HIB meningitis and polio + meningitis C (six components, two needles); FOUR MONTHS: diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, HIB meningitis and polio + pneumococcal + meningitisC (seven components, three needles); 12 MONTHS: HIB meningitis and meningitis C (two components, two needles); 13 MONTHS: measles, mumps, rubella + pneumococcal vaccine (four components, two needles). This reflects a grave medical assault inflicted on the small, weak, defenceless bodies of our innocent children.
Just a Few of the Monstrous Problems

Unthinkably, vaccine studies do not include placebo groups. Instead, they use other vaccines in “control” groups, making it impossible to properly note actual rates of adverse events between a test group and real control group. No research has been done on the long-term effects of vaccines. Post-marketing data of reactions, injury and death go ignored. Moreover, the system lacks individualization. Apparently, one size fits all. There is no pre-screening for immune problems and allergies. Overloading the human body with infections and sub-infections will irreparably disrupt and destroy the immune system. Chemicals in vaccines induce allergies, asthma, and autoimmune disease, including autism. By the way, don’t let any indoctrinated doctor tell you vaccines do not cause autism. Do your own research. Sexual immorality and adultery are stirred by offering our daughters HPV vaccination against cervical cancer. Notably and incredibly, the HPV vaccine is shown to make some recipients even more susceptible to cervical cancer. According to many scientific reports, there is additional concern that some vaccines cause infertility and are used for clandestine population control. The proper role of medicine is to work to find and prevent the root cause of disease, not treat symptoms or fill the body with chemicals and vaccines.
Islam and Medical Science Must Oppose Vaccination

The case against vaccination is first an Islamic one, based on Islamic ethos regarding the perfection of the natural human body’s immune defence system, empowered by great and prophetic guidance to avoid most infections. The case against vaccination is also a medical and health-related one. Incredible evidence, unbeknownst to most, has emerged in the West regarding the many serious health hazards that affect those who have been vaccinated.
Islam and the Immune System

Colostrum in breast milk, a rich source of myriad antibodies, is extraordinarily important in conveying immunity to the child during the first few days after birth. Breastfeeding up to two years gives incredible immunity into the future. Medical studies evidence the amazing protection of breastfeeding against infections, even including poliomyelitis. The first two years of life are a crucial time during which the child’s body will develop a natural and mature immune system. Vaccination disrupts and damages the natural process of human development. God (Allah), the Creator, the Designer, has organised for the destruction of most germs and viruses through the natural process of entry-and-defence via skin, mucous, and the stomach. This process is very different from injection of a vaccine directly into the body without crossing natural defence barriers. Twenty-five weakened diseases are destructively pushed by needlepoint into the bodies of our fragile children at a stage when they are developing their own natural defence systems.Infection and disease are medically proven to regularly succumb to spontaneous, self-remitting recovery. Childhood bouts with infectious disease help build the immune system against future attacks. As our beloved physician and prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, has told us, for every disease there is a cure. The final holy book, Al Qur’an, is an awesome medical source for both prevention and cure of disease. To best prepare the body, the Muslim should use natural and permissible nutrition from Yayyib (natural) food and drink. Of further importance, we need to address the root causes of morbidity and mortality: poverty, malnutrition, lack of clean drinking water, lack of a healthy and natural foods, lack of proper sewage, and toxins in the environment and body.The Islamic behaviour of seeking halal (lawful) and avoiding harram has been linked to health throughout time by many Muslim doctors and scientists, especially in the field of preventative medicine. Great care should be given to personal hygiene, including hand washing at about 25 times per day (15 times before the five daily prayers during wudu [absolution]). Properly practising daily personal hygiene will avoid many infections. Many fruits and other healthy foods prescribed in Islam have been found to prevent disease and strengthen the immune system, including olive and olive oil, ginger, grapes, pomegranate, vinegar, rosemary and figs. Islamic-prescribed complementary medicine protects us from disease and strengthens our natural immune system, including honey, fasting, prayer (meditation), Du’A (special prayer) for the sick, black seed, Hijama (blood cupping), holy fruits and foods, breastfeeding, aromatherapy, Zam Zam (drinking holy water at Makkah, Saudi Arabia at the time of pilgrimage), and laying on of hands with a special prayer. Frequent exposure to the sun for vitamin D and a diet rich in vitamin D prevents many diseases. Islam prohibits Muslims from taking any harmful medicine or substance. Even where there is doubt or controversy, Islam orders us to leave it completely. This applies to vaccines.

The Truth Be Told

Harram in many vaccines include human foetuses, gelatine from pork, alcohol, and human and animal parts. These najis (unclean), haraam ingredients are not given in a state of emergency to save life at present. It is ridiculous to introduce myriad infective agents into millions of people as a “just in case” prevention of future infection. It is very wrong that Muslim doctors have adopted a medical intervention that contains so many haraamsand harmful chemicals.
In Islam, the human body is holy. We should protect and keep it natural, pure, healthy and safe. As vaccines are neither pure nor natural, it is no wonder that science and medicine have found them to be so incredibly dangerous. A well-orchestrated pharmaceutical industry plan of scaremongering exists to create fear in parents who do not vaccinate their children. Doctors and governments have been indoctrinated and corrupted by a gigantic and incredibly powerful industry into advocating obligatory vaccination, contrary to health and human and religious rights. This has happened not to advance health, but for profit. Vaccines should not be pushed or forced on anyone.
The Case for Opposing Vaccination
  • It disrupts and destroys the natural immune systems of our innocent children
  • It produces many physical and medical problems
  • It increases antibiotic resistance among many patients
  • It can make many people sterile or infertile
  • It contains many harmful chemicals like mercury and aluminium
  • It lacks scientific, independent evidence of efficacy and safety
  • It contains many haraam substances for the 1600 million Muslims in the world (the latest of which is the vaccine for Meningitis for the Muslim Pilgrims who are going to Hajj was found to contain pork, which isharram.)
  • It also contains substances which are prohibited for Jews, Hindus and vegetariansIt is unhygienic and full of filth
  • It wastes trillions of dollars and is making the people and governments in poor third world countries poorer and more in debt, and the drug companies filthy rich
  • It is medically unethical, as it took us away from dealing with the causes of the diseases and work on prevention. It is a very wrong medical practice to use a vaccine against every ill
  • It lacks transparency and informed consent. Most parents, the public, and even doctors are not aware of its harms, ingredients and cost
  • A rising number of doctors, health professionals and parents are joining the campaign against vaccination (websites below)
  • We have many natural ways to build a natural strong immune system to fight most infections
  • We have many natural, safe alternatives
  • Incredibly, the Big Pharma producers of vaccines are exempt from any liability or prosecution, regardless of the number of people who die or are injured
  • Our innocent children are suffering and they gave no consent at all for the vaccines forced on them. This constitutes a medical assault
Web Resources
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20...-and-health-2/

I posted this the other day, It is worth watching, it isn't about scare tactics regarding vaccines, it is medical research.



-cOsMiC
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CosmicPathos
06-23-2012, 09:50 PM
not giving your child a vaccine can cause them more harm than that pus from serum of horse can, okay.

This anti-vaccination campaign is so BS. Cant believe that Muslims with rational mind will buy into this stuff.

Ys vaccine has weakend or daed virus in it, but its there to help the body.

Was Allah swt "incapable" when he created a baby just born with weak immune system? Was Allah incapable when he let mother's igG cross the placenta? naudubillah. Was Allah incapable when He created a baby with Downs syndrome? What stupid argument by Dr. Hamdan.
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cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-23-2012, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
not giving your child a vaccine can cause them more harm than that pus from serum of horse can, okay.

This anti-vaccination campaign is so BS. Cant believe that Muslims with rational mind will buy into this stuff.
Again, how is it BS? Please Explain.

- cOsMiC
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CosmicPathos
06-23-2012, 09:56 PM
If Muslims going to Hajj were not given meningococcus vaccine, do you know how many Hajjis will die from meningitis? God ... this is getting ridiculous.

Calling vaccines "unpure and unclean" is BS. Does the author know that even breathing in today's air is unclean and unpure? When he takes one breath in, he breathes in millions of bacteria into his lungs. He has already destroyed the "pureness" of his body.
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CosmicPathos
06-23-2012, 09:59 PM
and it is BS because there is TONS of scientific evidence to show that vaccinations prevent disease. That is exactly how we humans completely annihilated the disease small pox. This disease does not exist anymore. How did we humans do that? yes, you read it, by vaccinations! OKAY. Not by some quack's snake oil.
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cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-23-2012, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
not giving your child a vaccine can cause them more harm than that pus from serum of horse can, okay.

This anti-vaccination campaign is so BS. Cant believe that Muslims with rational mind will buy into this stuff.

Ys vaccine has weakend or daed virus in it, but its there to help the body.

Was Allah swt "incapable" when he created a baby just born with weak immune system? Was Allah incapable when he let mother's igG cross the placenta? naudubillah. Was Allah incapable when He created a baby with Downs syndrome? What stupid argument by Dr. Hamdan.
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
If Muslims going to Hajj were not given meningococcus vaccine, do you know how many Hajjis will die from meningitis? God ... this is getting ridiculous.

Calling vaccines "unpure and unclean" is BS. Does the author know that even breathing in today's air is unclean and unpure? When he takes one breath in, he breathes in millions of bacteria into his lungs. He has already destroyed the "pureness" of his body.
Nope, I don't know. Do you know how many hajis would die? If so, according to whom? As far as I know, Allah has appointed a time of death for all of us. Read the other article and then watch the full video posted, then we can continue this conversation.

As far as a baby's immune system, A baby has a right to be breastfed for 2 years of his/her life, all of mother's immunity are passed on through the breast milk and there is no necessity for vaccination or intervention from anyone. Indeed Allah's creation is perfect, I don't find Dr. Hamdan's argument stupid.



- cOsMiC
Reply

CosmicPathos
06-23-2012, 10:13 PM
- No i dont know exactly how many Hajis, specifically which Hajji, would die, as medicine cant pinpoint the exact person who will get meningitis. But we for sure can study the population epidemiology and study the populations. More hajis will die from meningitis if they did not have meningococcal vaccine. I for sure dont want to send my parents to Hajj and then let them develop meningitis (God forbid) from the coughing of another hajji!!!!! I dont want any other Hajji to be the indirect cause of my parents death. (may Allah give them long and healthy life).

Yes Allah has appointed time for death but we only know that once the person has died. We cant say that Allah has appointed time for death anyways so might as well then go on a reckless behavior. Do you know the history of spanish flu in 1918?

As for being breastfed. if mother is not immune/exposed to those viruses, she wont have IgG antibodies against them in her body and she wont transfer them to the baby even via breastmilk. So that baby will be exposed. Hope it is clear now sis.

salam
Reply

cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-23-2012, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
and it is BS because there is TONS of scientific evidence to show that vaccinations prevent disease. That is exactly how we humans completely annihilated the disease small pox. This disease does not exist anymore. How did we humans do that? yes, you read it, by vaccinations! OKAY. Not by some quack's snake oil.
There's also plenty of evidence that vaccines have done nothing, and medical information is not given in full to the public, small pox was already diminishing by the time vaccines were introduced.

Interestingly enough, One of the top pediatricians in t he United states (Robert W. Sears M.D F.A.A.P) Says this in his book titled "The Vaccine Book"

Doctors, myself included, learn a lot about diseases in medical school, but we learn very little about vaccines, other than the fact that the FDA and pharmaceutical companies do extensive research on vaccines to make sure they are safe and effective. We don't review the research ourselves. We never learn what goes into making vaccines or how their safety is studied. We trust and take it for granted that the proper researchers are doing their jobs. So, when patients want a little more information about shots, all we can really say as doctors is that the diseases are bad and the shots are good. But we don't know enough to answer all of your detailed questions about vaccines. Nor do we have the time during regular health checkup to thoroughly discuss and debate the pros and cons of vaccines
The book itself is very well written and neutral on vaccines. He took it upon himself to clear this area up because in the states, more and more parents are questioning the vaccinations and many are starting to reject them. Such as myself.

As I said, start by watching the video I provided you with. Then come back and argue those points if you wish. There is no transcription for it if not I'd provide that instead.

- cOsMiC
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cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-23-2012, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

As for being breastfed. if mother is not immune/exposed to those viruses, she wont have IgG antibodies against them in her body and she wont transfer them to the baby even via breastmilk. So that baby will be exposed. Hope it is clear now sis.

salam
As a mother is exposed she passes on immunity. There is no need to pass on an immunity for a disease that is not around. for example, if mother is exposed to the latest flu virus, baby is automatically protected from that, that is why baby has a right to be breastfed for 2 years, it gives enough time for the immune system to strengthen.

- cOsMiC
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
this is getting ridiculous.
I don't understand AT ALL this call for extermination of Muslims but in a different style..
People who can't back what they say with science nor actually understand the whole physiology behind humoral and cellular immunity are giving such detrimental advise to others and perpetuating mass hysteria and non facts.

la 7awala wla qiwta illa billah is all I can say!
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CosmicPathos
06-23-2012, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
There's also plenty of evidence that vaccines have done nothing, and medical information is not given in full to the public, small pox was already diminishing by the time vaccines were introduced.
Which vaccines have done nothing? Some vaccines surely dont work 100%, and patients are told about that! Others work almost 100%, such as Hep B vaccine!

Just cuz some vaccines dont work 100%, who gave you or anyone the right to call ALL vaccines useless? Not scientific.

Medicine is not magic. There are always complications, you ahve to balance benefits vs risks. But to deny benefits all together is madness. Nothing else to say.


salam
Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
As a mother is exposed she passes on immunity. There is no need to pass on an immunity for a disease that is not around. for example, if mother is exposed to the latest flu virus, baby is automatically protected from that, that is why baby has a right to be breastfed for 2 years, it gives enough time for the immune system to strengthen.

- cOsMiC
A mother only confers IgG immunoglobulin through the placenta and only for a period of six months post natal.


:w:
Reply

CosmicPathos
06-23-2012, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
Doctors, myself included, learn a lot about diseases in medical school, but we learn very little about vaccines, other than the fact that the FDA and pharmaceutical companies do extensive research on vaccines to make sure they are safe and effective. We don't review the research ourselves. We never learn what goes into making vaccines or how their safety is studied. We trust and take it for granted that the proper researchers are doing their jobs. So, when patients want a little more information about shots, all we can really say as doctors is that the diseases are bad and the shots are good. But we don't know enough to answer all of your detailed questions about vaccines. Nor do we have the time during regular health checkup to thoroughly discuss and debate the pros and cons of vaccines
No medical doctor or student denies that. But just we have not seen the process, does not mean it doesnt work. Our experience tells us that it works. Scientific peer reviewed studies tell us it works.

My grand ma had hep b. I was vaccinated for hep B as a child. We lived together. I thank God I was vaccinated, I could have picked up hep B by using shared utensils if they had even a tiny amount of blood from her teeth/gums.
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Rhubarb Tart
06-23-2012, 11:06 PM
Why cant we trust our doctors and medical researchers? Why are one or two fools with little evidence to back up their statements, valued more than those that have evidences and follow the proper procedures. Otherwise, people need to create a system to test their theories! If a baby or child don't need a vaccine, then prove it! Don't just say it and write article! Back it up!

Is that fool that caused mass panic with MMR (the doc did not carry out the research correctly and as a result was dismissed) fault that people don't trust medical research.
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cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-23-2012, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
No medical doctor or student denies that. But just we have not seen the process, does not mean it doesnt work. Our experience tells us that it works. Scientific peer reviewed studies tell us it works.
Please review the information provided in this thread, the video is 90 minutes long, no way you sat down to watch it already. This peer reviewed information is exactly where I'm getting at, where does it come from? All of the information that I have provided so far is from MD's, including the video.

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

A mother only confers IgG immunoglobulin through the placenta and only for a period of six months post natal.


:w:
Correct, and that is when baby needs its most and is most vulnerable. As baby gets older and is exposed to germs etc, his/her immune system begins to strengthen. There is a certain amount of IgG passed on through breast milk as well, along with plentiful IgA, which concentrates in body fluids such as tears, saliva, and the secretions of the respiratory and gastrointestinal tracts, which is where we pass viruses and disease for the most part. You are not considering everything else breast milk has to protect against disease. Once baby is 6-8 months old and almost all IgA is gone, what will happen if child gets chicken pox? I think id we want to discuss breastfeeding we can move it to a new thread as it will derail the conversation a great deal, its a hefty subject. This is a good start though for those of you reading and who are interested. http://kellymom.com/pregnancy/bf-prep/how_breastmilk_protects_newborns/

- cOsMiC

Reply

جوري
06-23-2012, 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
Correct, and that is when baby needs its most and is most vulnerable. As baby gets older and is exposed to germs etc, his/her immune system begins to strengthen. There is a certain amount of IgG passed on through breast milk as well, along with plentiful IgA, which concentrates in body fluids such as tears, saliva, and the secretions of the respiratory and gastrointestinal tracts, which is where we pass viruses and disease for the most part. You are not considering everything else breast milk has to protect against disease. Once baby is 6-8 months old and almost all IgA is gone, what will happen if child gets chicken pox? I think id we want to discuss breastfeeding we can move it to a new thread as it will derail the conversation a great deal, its a hefty subject. This is a good start though for those of you reading and who are interested. http://kellymom.com/pregnancy/bf-pre...ects_newborns/
Some infants are born with Chediak-Higashi syndrome some have agammaglobulinemia some have SIgAD some have Common variable immune deficiency some have selective IgM deficiency etc. etc. etc.
what do you propose we do for them and how will a body already missing major components of its immune response to combat foreign bodies? and here's the paradigm shift what of the body that attacks its own self. Everything those evil big pharm co. do is just deadly, we should either die or pray it away, and why the insistence on sharing third party articles as if authoritative? That's not how research is done.. no feelings or conspiracy I assure you exists when we're trying to find a cure for rare enzymatic, or immune disease. You only commit a grievous disservice to your child when denying immunization and it is certainly your prerogative but it is no one's prerogative to accept false information as facts!

:w:
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Snowflake
06-24-2012, 01:58 AM
"The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used."
--Dr. James A. Shannon National Institutes of Health



Vaccines are NOT a cure. They are supposed means of prevention consisting of harmful and vile substances that have shown an increase in autism, auto-immune and other diseases. I don't agree vaccines as being a 'necessity' because the 'necessity overrides prohibition' ruling is applied when something is happening/happened - not from fear that it might happen. Otherwise, Allah and His Rasul (pbuh) would have told muslims to take pork with them when they travelled for days and months through deserts in case they might face starvation. No, never did shariah teach to carry on our person such a vile thing as a means of preventing death/disease. Then what makes us think that we can to pour dangerous and disgusting substances into our children bodies in case they get a disease - a disease which they may never get? This doesn't even come under the arguments for using harmful drugs as a cure. It's unbelievable to see people will ignore mounting evidence of the harm vaccines can do to a child and still let them have it out of fear that he might catch a disease. And I'd rather keep my stronger feelings to myself.


P.S. Thanks for the article you posted sis Cosmicintuition :statisfie
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جوري
06-24-2012, 02:10 AM
Originally Posted by Snowflake
"The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used."
--Dr. James A. Shannon National Institutes of Health

The same goes for soap or riding a car. But if you never desire to get clean or get somewhere then by all means!



Vaccines are NOT a cure. They are supposed means of prevention consisting of harmful and vile substances that have shown an increase in autism, auto-immune and other diseases.
There's no correlation between vaccines and autism, else how do you account for those who receive the vaccine and don't develop autism? or those who don't receive it at all then develop it? Perhaps if you have so many confounders you'd look else where for a cause instead of riding the band wagon.

I don't agree vaccines as being a 'necessity' because the 'necessity overrides prohibition' ruling is applied when something is happening/happened - not from fear that it might happen.
Such a ruling is then left to religious scholars and physicians not lay men although you always have the option to withhold.


Otherwise, Allah and His Rasul (pbuh) would have told muslims to take pork with them when they travelled for days and months through deserts in case they might face starvation.
This is apples and oranges!

No, never did shariah teach to carry on our person such a vile thing as a means of preventing death/disease.
Who says? Did Khalid not drink from the guts of camels? was not tying their mouths in anticipation of thirst a preventative measure?

Then what makes us think that we can to pour dangerous and disgusting substances into our children bodies in case they get a disease - a disease which they may never get?
What are these harmful substances you speak of? They're exactly the same as what is contracted to cause death except attenuated if live or killed. Salk or Sabine for the body's memory cells to make antibodies. Perhaps you can show me in a clear fashion how that's disgusting? using words without evidence I am afraid isn't convincing and what you're preaching here is neither Islamic nor accurate scientifically!

This doesn't even come under the arguments for using harmful drugs as a cure. It's unbelievable to see people will ignore mounting evidence of the harm vaccines can do to a child and still let them have it out of fear that he might catch a disease. And I'd rather keep my stronger feelings to myself.
Maybe if you used actual evidence people would pay attention, but you've done no such thing. You're using defunct articles, third party sources and people whose doctorate has nothing to do with the fields to assert an incorrect point!

:w:
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Tyrion
06-24-2012, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Snowflake
They are supposed means of prevention consisting of harmful and vile substances that have shown an increase in autism, auto-immune and other diseases.
Isn't it old news that those "studies" that found those correlations were basically a huge scam? It just caused a stir because it ended up duping a bunch of celebrities and laypeople (and apparently some Muslims too...).

Here's a wiki article on it. I didn't read the whole thing, but it seems to mirror what I remember reading about it a year ago.
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Snowflake
06-24-2012, 05:43 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrion

Isn't it old news that those "studies" that found those correlations were basically a huge scam? It just caused a stir because it ended up duping a bunch of celebrities and laypeople (and apparently some Muslims too...).

Here's a wiki article on it. I didn't read the whole thing, but it seems to mirror what I remember reading about it a year ago.
Studies that are damaging to Big Pharma can be withheld/withdrawn at any time ans excuses made up to their being scams.
Who would benefit from such a scam anyway? There's plenty of testimonies from parents who watched their child slip into autism following the MMR vaccination. They didn't suddenly decide their child developed autism after hearing about the studies. Any parent knows better what their child was like before and after a jab. I would rather believe a loving parents who knows their child better than shady governments any day.


More vaccines on the way...

"The world today has 6.8 billion people, that's heading up to about nine billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10-15 percent." Bill Gates

Shouldn't those services help increase population as oppose to decreasing it? So what is meant by them helping to reduce the population.









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Qurratul Ayn
06-24-2012, 06:48 AM
OK, just one question; it may be out of topic but please forgive me...


In America, are vaccines being given to children without their parents' permissions, in secondary schools?

Just asking :) Then you can get back onto the discussion
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Banu_Hashim
06-24-2012, 08:39 AM
There was a case of recently of a girl, a Muslim girl I think, who passed away of TB because her GP didn't notice the signs early enough and then it was too late. If she had the vaccine, she would've been safe.

I don't know why TB vaccines aren't given to children nowadays.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-12159710
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~Zaria~
06-24-2012, 09:22 AM
Assalamu-alaikum,

Ahh, the big Vaccine Conspiracy continues! lol

Im tight on time atm.....so Im not able to completely engage in this discussion.

Howver, seeing that I' ve had this discussion on a previous forum that I was a member of, I have brought forward my views on this here:


The following points/ analogies have been used to explain a few important points with regards to vaccines, insha Allah:


1. Realising the Importance of Weighing Benefits vs. Risks:

Examples:

We are all aware of articles of the following nature, regarding the use of cell-phones:


Mobile phone use 'raises children's risk of brain cancer fivefold'
Alarming new research from Sweden on the effects of radiation raises fears that today's youngsters face an epidemic of the disease in later life
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...ld-937005.html
There are hundreds of sites that will support this point of view....so why, dont we all stop using cell-phones??

Is it because, despite articles such as these, we believe that:

a) These risks related to cell-phone use are not yet sufficiently proven or over-whelming significant?
b) Even if such a risk does indeed exist, its relatively small....so we are willing to continue to use this device because the benefits of it far outnumber potential harms.
c) Or perhaps, in these cases, you rely on information from the 'experts' in the field, e.g. the National Cancer Institute, that provides a far more balanced view on this topic:
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...isk/cellphones


Another example:

Did you know, that in the USA there are about 40000 deaths in car crashes every year - that suggests that if you drive for an average amount of 50 years, your chances of dying in a car are roughly 1 in 100 !!

Yet, we prefer to live with this risk, and continue to drive cars - dont we?
Why? Because we see the benefit of this form of transport, and in our minds, this far out-weighs the potential risk of an accident (even though this risk is so high!)


YET, when it comes to vaccines, we quickly go into 'conspiracy mode', should any adverse effect result.

The fact that these vaccines come with potential side effects (as with all other drugs, in fact even herbal/ 'natural remedies'), is disclosed to the public....this is not kept under-cover....read the drug inserts for yourself.

The fact that for example, the risk of developing Guillaine Barre Syndrome post vaccination is about 1 in 1 million......the studies showing this are replicated across the globe - (and no, not by the drug company/ FDA, but by hospitals and specialists in the field).

....this fact is completely ignored, and instead the 1 in a million person, who unfortunately, and by the will of Allah, develops an adverse reaction draws the most attention. Understandably, for the family involved, it would be distressing (if it is actually caused by the vaccine at all - most, not all, cases are false alarms) -

YET, this is all we seem to remember!

Lets look at a few more Risk from disease vs. Risk from Vaccine Stats:

DISEASE
Measles
Pneumonia: 6 in 100
Encephalitis: 1 in 1,000
Death: 2 in 1,000

Rubella
Congenital Rubella Syndrome: 1 in 4 (if woman becomes infected early in pregnancy)

VACCINES
MMR
Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction:
1 in 1,000,000


Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis vs. DTap Vaccine
DISEASE

Diphtheria
Death: 1 in 20

Tetanus
Death: 2 in 10

Pertussis
Pneumonia: 1 in 8
Encephalitis: 1 in 20
Death: 1 in 1,500

VACCINES
DTaP
Continuous crying, then full recovery: 1 in 1000
Convulsions or shock, then full recovery: 1 in 14,000
Acute encephalopathy: 0-10.5 in 1,000,000
Death: None proven


How hypocritical to casually disregard the enormous benefits of these agents (Or is that we are so convinced that there must be a conspiracy based on the few, random, and often unproven cases of adverse reactions!)

Do we forget though, that before the widespread use of measles vaccine, its incidence was so high that infection with measles was felt to be "as inevitable as death and taxes."!

Do we forget these sort of statistics??






2. Know where to find your information from.


If I perform a google/ youtube search on 'islam' or 'prophet muhammed (sallahu alaihi wasalam)' - how many conflicting, and often blasphemous sites will I find?

So, what will the chances be of anyone basing their complete 'research' on this methodolgy, actually finding imaan?
Not very good, if you consider just how many 'convincing' anti-islamic sites are!

The same goes for this topic. For every 'anti-vaccine' website, which is backed by very little evidential support....I can find you similiar, if not more 'pro-vaccine' sites - based on actual studies.
With regards to the 'squalene' controversy, you may wish to refer to the article below, which discusses everything you could possibly wish to know, without concealing the negatives:

http://0-www.sciencedirect.com.innop...03861-main.pdf


You see, its very easy to sit behind our laptops, in the comfort of our homes, and do 'research' on such topics.
But the cruel reality of the situation is that people like myself, and many other medical professionals are actual first-hand witnesses to patients such as these:


Requiring intubation and ventilation for proven H1N1-related pneumonias




We have seen the devastating, and lifelong crippling nature of polio, such as this:




And we have treated patients during the recent outbreak of measles, who look similiar to this....often with little success (esp. if in adults):




And YET, we fail to see this flood of 'victims of vaccines'....which, undoubtedly, we should be witnessing by now, considering the millions of vaccinated people around the world!



3. Everything in life was developed by trial and error:

How many attempts did it take Thomas Edison to create the light bulb?
How many attempts did it take Henry Ford to develop the first car?

Do you not realise that all forms of science and technology, depends to an extent on trial and error?
Why would this be different in medicine?

Of course, because human lives are involved, all drugs undergo extensive trials - first animal based....and then human trials - before being actually released for public consumption.
And these trials are not conducted exclusively by the drug company - by phase 3 trials, they are conducted at multiple independant hospitals.
If any significant side effects are recognised (and these can not be hidden from practioners world-wide), they are withdrawn from the market.


At the end of the day, its an individual decision.

Make your own choice, based on the information that you wish to believe....just dont embark on smear campaigns, without providing everyone ALL the facts - there's always 2 sides to every story.

For myself, I'll take my <1% of something seriously going wrong (and thats an over-estimate), and raise you the > 30% mortality on measles (underestimate)!

All the best now.

:wa:
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جوري
06-24-2012, 02:08 PM
Couple of things that people who opt out don't realize are.
1- Doctors especially in the west don't recognize end stage dz. as a result of missing a particular vaccine.
consider that all doctors of my generation have never seen small pox except in pictures because there was an excellent elimination program... Now we're seeing rare ramifications of such things like the measles for instance Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE)from folks who opt out.
2- Viruses don't have a cure if you think well it is ok to get this and build immunity the natural way.. Just ask AIDS and HEP C patients or even those with the common cold if they would jump on a preventative vaccine..

Doctors can't force you to receive treatment, or preventative measures if it is not a life threatening situation. But do know that most if not all schools public and private require an up to date immunization record. So you'll isolate your kids as the only option left is home schooling and isolate them on the playground as kids are a walking garden of diseases. You might as well lock them in the basement.

:w:
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Scimitar
06-24-2012, 05:11 PM
I can't believe H1N1 was mentioned here... :D

Here is the deal about H1N1... entirely manufactured!



...interesting isn't it?

The only vaccine I had was at birth. By early school, my father made it very clear that I was NOT to be given vaccines, and I wasn't... then again in Secondary school, when the vaccinations were being given out, I got away without even a shot.

When peeps get flu's and colds, they last weeks, maybe even a month sometimes... (maybe longer in other cases) but me? I'm dandy in two days flat. My immune system? my Doctor says it works better than anyone he knows... Alhamdulillah

Food for thought there I tell you.

Scimi
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~Zaria~
06-24-2012, 06:25 PM
Assalamu-alaikum,

Brother Scimi,

JazakAllah khair for your input.

Im afraid that I need a lot more evidence proving that this strain of E-coli/ H1N1 or any virus/ bacteria for that matter was genetically created.....

A documentary/ interview does not suffice.

'Perhaps'/ 'maybe'/ 'we think' does not suffice.

There are reasons why bacteria become drug-resistant......most commonly because of the inappropiate use of antibiotics.

For those on the ground, who are/have treated people with these conditions, and have witnessed loss of lives from proven, cultured viruses/ bacteria - we have a different story to tell.

At the end of the day, we only want whats best for the person facing morbidity and death, seeking the help of Allah (subhanawataála).

In short theres just too many stories.
Too many conspiracies.
And I fear we are becoming a threat onto ourselves.

Remember:

Qur'an 49:12
' O ye who believe! avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin.....'

I dont mind those who say that they have chosen not to vaccinate themselves/ their family members.
Thats your choice, Alhamdulillah.

I do mind spreading knowledge based on incomplete evidence, suspicion and in many cases falsehoods.
Without taking into account the potential harmful effects that this can have on others.

This is all that we are saying.

To the anti-vacciners - to you, your way.

Or else, come back with some evidence thats worthy of a discussion, insha Allah.

We have nothing to hide, and no one to protect.
As Allah is my witness, my intentions are sincere here.


:wa:
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Scimitar
06-24-2012, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Assalamu-alaikum,

Brother Scimi,

JazakAllah khair for your input.

Im afraid that I need a lot more evidence proving that this strain of E-coli/ H1N1 or any virus/ bacteria for that matter was genetically created.....

A documentary/ interview does not suffice.

'Perhaps'/ 'maybe'/ 'we think' does not suffice.
Walakum salaam sis Zaria, I see that you need evidential proofs, and there is nothing wrong with that - but really now, you know sis Zaria, that this info will not be made public fact til 30 yrs have elapsed... by which time you'll all be scratching your heads thinking "what a world we live in".

AS if we don't say that enough already. These are times of deception, and calling something a conspiracy theory when in fact, the evidences surface throughout western medicines dark history, is really a futility not worth banking on.

So, if we are looking for proofs that the mutinaitonal pharmas are hoodwinking us - we'd be waiting a LOOOONG time. Don't be so innocent about these things.

You gotta ask yourself, how comes Americans are so fat? Just look at what they give their babies - it's plain wrong. obesity is a desease that is sold on the pharma market. Along with everything else that is not good for you. I care not what the Doctors say here, all I know is, vaccinations for babies show absolutely no faith in Allah - and I have a massive problem with that.

I just wanna ask you all a question. "when you was last vaccinated, did you say "bismillah" before the needle went in?" ;)

Scimi

EDIT: wikileaks, it's all there... you want proof? go find it. ;)
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Rhubarb Tart
06-24-2012, 06:43 PM
^^^I’ve posted documentary that specifically explain why Americans and the west are so fat! Immunisations have nothing to do with it!

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...eatment-5.html
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Abz2000
06-24-2012, 06:44 PM


sometimes it's useful to look at the possible link and reflect on it,
not just go by pharmaceutical company funded medical journals,

and when you have criminals like rockefeller, who on the one hand own the biggest pharma companies on the planet, with their "invincible" lobbying power, and the fact that they push for population reduction - it's definitely a bad mix.



For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.

David Rockefeller memoirs - Ch. 27 : Proud Internationalist, p. 406
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Snowflake
06-24-2012, 06:55 PM
Infectious disease spreads when disease control is compromised. If a person is kept in isolation and hygiene is practiced, then we wouldn't have epidemics or the need for mass immunization. Amazingly, we have more diseases since science intervened.
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Scimitar
06-24-2012, 06:56 PM
How about this red tape ??

here are a few examples of the futility in trying to get "PROOFS" sis Zaria.

A powerful tool that allows ordinary citizens to obtain crucial information from government archives, the US Department of State (DOA) Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) is under attack.
The Daily Caller reports that the US Justice Department wants to revise the law to allow government officials to lie about, or conceal the very existence of, records that it does not wish to release publicly.

But the new rule would allow officials to not only conceal the information, but also to blatantly lie about it. In other words, when the federal government wants to keep certain dirty little secrets under wraps, even "secrets" not protected by the exemption, it will simply be able to tell those requesting such information that it does not exist.

"(The rule) will dramatically undermine government integrity by allowing a law designed to provide public access to government information to be twisted to permit federal law enforcement agencies to actively lie to the American people," said the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), and OpenTheGovernment.org, in a joint public:

Here is the PDF for you to chase at your own leisure:
http://www.openthegovernment.org/sit...11 - FINAL.pdf


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034066_FO...#ixzz1yjovIcah



Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034066_FOIA_Justice_Department.html#ixzz1yjoepJ6r

How about another exposee?

How about one that you called a conspiracy sis Zaria? what if I can prove this by providing some evidences that will clear up any doubts you have? fair game?

Ok... let's do this:

remember this video?

<strong><i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: left; font-size: medium; ">
The latest batch of diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks reveals what can only be characterized as a U.S.-led conspiracy to force GMOs onto European countries by making those countries pay a steep price if they resist.

The cable reveals the words of
Craig Stapleton, the US ambassador to France, who was pushing the commercial interests of the biotech industry by attempting to force GMOs into France. In his own words (below), he expresses his frustration with the idea that France might pass environmental laws that would hamper the expansion of GMOs:

"Europe is moving backwards not forwards on this issue with France playing a leading role, along with Austria, Italy and even the [European] Commission... Moving to retaliation will make clear that the current path has real costs to EU interests and could help strengthen European pro-biotech voice."

Got that so far? His own words: "Retaliation" as a way to "make [it] clear" that resisting GMOs will have a price.

Stapleton goes on to say something rather incredible:

"Country team Paris recommends that we calibrate a target retaliation list that causes some pain across the EU since this is a collective responsibility, but that also focuses in part on the worst culprits. The list should be measured rather than vicious and must be sustainable over the long term, since we should not expect an early victory..."

As you read these words again, remember that these are the words of the U.S. ambassador to France who is suggesting the US "calibrate a target retaliation list" in order to "cause some pain across the EU" that must be "sustainable over the long term."

The global GMO conspiracy is no longer a theory

Need we say anything more? This cable proves, once and for all, that there is a global GMO conspiracy where government operatives work in secret to push Monsanto's GMO agenda while punishing opponents of GMOs and adding them to a "target retaliation list."

This cable also proves that NaturalNews has been right all along about the GMO conspiracy, and that GMO opponents such as Jeffrey Smith are battling what can only be called an evil conspiracy to control the world's food supply. It also proves that when Alex Jones talks about the global conspiracy to control the world food supply, he's not just ranting. He's warning about the reality of the world in which we now live.

As Jeffery Smith said today in a Democracy Now interview:

"We’ve been saying for years that the United States government is joined at the hip with Monsanto and pushing GMOs as part of Monsanto’s agenda on the rest of the world. This lays bare the mechanics of that effort. We have Craig Stapleton, the former ambassador to France, specifically asking the U.S. government to retaliate and cause some harm throughout the European Union." (http://www.democracynow.org/seo/2010/12/23/wikileaks_cables_reveal_us...)

Military terms

Do you notice something about these words used by the US ambassador to France? "Calibrate a target retaliation list" sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it? It's the kind of language you might find tossed around in a military bombing war exercise.

That's no coincidence: These government operatives quite literally consider themselves to be at war with the world, and they intend to conquer the world with their genetically modified poisons. They will do anything, it seems, to force-feed their deadly crops to the public.

Eight important realizations from these leaks

This Wikileaks cable brings up all sorts of issues that each might deserve a separate article, but here are the highlights of what comes to my mind on this issue:

Realization #1) Wikileaks is valuable for exposing the government lies in our world. Without Wikileaks, we never would have known about these cables which prove the existence of this GMO conspiracy.

Realization #2) US government diplomatic officials are working for the corporations! It's just as we've described here on NaturalNews numerous times -- Big Government is really just an extension of the most evil and most powerful corporations that now dominate our planet: The drug companies, the weapons manufacturers, the agricultural giants and so on. Here's what Jeffrey Smith had to say about governments conspiring with Monsanto:

"In 2009, we have a cable from the ambassador to Spain from the United States asking for intervention there, asking the government to help formulate a biotech strategy and support the government -- members of the government in Spain that want to promote GMOs, as well. And here, they specifically indicate that they sat with the director of Monsanto for the region and got briefed by him about the politics of the region and created strategies with him to promote the GMO agenda."

Realization #3) The US is willing to retaliate against European countries if they try to block GMOs. This brings up the question: Why is the US so desperate to push GMOs on Europe? Clearly there is another agenda behind all this (maybe we'll learn more in future Wikileaks releases).

Realization #4) No wonder the US government has declared war on Wikileaks because these dark secrets and "conspiracy notes" are never made public through any normal means. It takes a whistleblower to expose the true government corruption taking place in our world today.

Realization #5) The GMO conspiracy reaches to the highest levels of global control. This US ambassador Stapleton wasn't just a nobody. He was, in fact, the co-owner of the Texas Rangers with former President George W. Bush! His wife, by the way, is George Bush's cousin. This is a conspiracy involving the highest-ranking officials across multiple countries who are pushing a GMO agenda that's poisoning people across the planet.

Realization #6) Governments are literally trying to kill their own people. It is widely known in the inner circles of power that GMOs are deadly, but governments keep pushing them anyway. As Jeffrey Smith explains in his interview with Democracy Now:

"...the person who was in charge of FDA policy in 1992, Monsanto’s former attorney, Michael Taylor, he allowed GMOs on the market without any safety studies and without labeling, and the policy claimed that the agency was not aware of any information showing that GMOs were significantly different. Seven years later, because of a lawsuit, 44,000 secret internal FDA memos revealed that that policy was a lie. Not only were the scientists at the FDA aware that GMOs were different, they had warned repeatedly that they might create allergies, toxins, new diseases and nutritional problems. But they were ignored, and their warnings were even denied, and the policy went forth allowing the deployment GMOs into the food supply with virtually no safety studies."

Realization #7) The GMO conspiracy is always reframed as "science". At one point in the leaked cables, Stapleton warns that in opposing GMOs, France would "roll back established science-based decision making." The GMO conspiracy, you have to remember, is always hidden behind the term "science" so that anyone who opposes GMOs can be characterized as being somehow against "scientific thinking."

All this gives science a bad name, of course, but I suppose that since the history of science is filled with arrogant scientists poisoning people in the name of science (mercury, vaccines, radiation, plastics, medications, etc.), we shouldn't be all that surprised to observe this.

Realization #8) Spain has been a key co-conspirator to push the U.S. GMO agenda. Much of the conspiring taking place in the EU has been spearheaded by Spain, whose officials met personally with the head of Monsanto to plot their push of GMOs into Europe.

All of a sudden the Blackwater story adds up

This all reminds me of a story published a few months back by The Nation in which Jeremy Scahill exposed a link between Monsanto and the military contractor known as Blackwater. His article claimed that Monsanto had hired Blackwater spies to "infiltrate activist groups organizing against the multinational biotech firm." (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/disney-monsanto-discovered-blackwa...)

Monsanto vehemently denied the allegation. I looked hard at covering that story at the time but could not substantiate the accusations to my satisfaction. However, given the new information gleaned from these leaked diplomatic cables -- which blatantly state that the GMO conspirators plan to "calibrate a target retaliation list" -- all of a sudden the Blackwater story adds up.

This is the verbage of a military-style retaliation campaign, and that's exactly the business of Blackwater. Remember how Stapleton said the US needed to "cause some pain?" That's Blackwater's calling card!

Although these cables don't prove any connection between Monsanto and Blackwater, they do lend credence to the idea that such a link is not only possibly, but perhaps even probable. It clearly deserves additional investigation.

Regardless of whether the Blackwater / Monsanto link is ever proven, what's crystal clear from all this is that the global GMO conspiracy is very real and that GMO conspirators plot retaliatory actions against any nation that refuses to allow GMOs into their country.

The whole thing is then disguised as "science" so that anyone who opposes it can be branded as "non-scientific." This is the same sick way in which vaccines are pushed, too: They're called "scientific" even when they're based entirely on scientific fraud (as are GMOs).

How governments really operate

Above all, what these Wikileaks cables really reveal is that government conspiracies are, of course, not only real but that they are taking place right now. Diplomats and ambassadors are, in effect, government thugs who engage in the most unethical actions, full of threats and retaliation, in order to serve the financial interests of their corporate masters.

That's how the world really works, despite the Disney-like image portrayed by the mainstream media. Behind the scenes, the U.S. government is literally plotting with Monsanto to take over the world's food supply. That is not an exaggeration. It's not conjecture. It is a statement of fact based on the words of the government's own operatives (who obviously didn't know their words would ever be made public).

Through Wikileaks, we have been given a glimpse into the truth behind the Great Wall of government lies. And that truth, it turns out, is a lot uglier than most people could have imagined. (It's no surprise to me, because I've seen things that most regular people have never witnessed. But to a regular Joe Blow working his J.O.B. and watching the evening news, the hard-core truth about the world is a bit too much to handle...)

Personally, I can't wait to see what other dark secrets are buried in these Wikileaks cables. And it all makes me wish we had a Wikileaks for the FDA, too. Can you imagine all the dirty secrets that would come out of the FDA's offices if we could read their emails? We need an FDA leaker.

The other thought that comes to mind is how much I wouldn't want to be Julian Assange right now. His head is now the world's most powerful bullet magnet... especially when government rifles are anywhere nearby. If the U.S. government would conspire to create a "retaliation target list" of nations that are merely resisting GMOs, can you imagine what they will do if they ever get their hands on Assange?

Read the leaked cables right here:
http://213.251.145.96/cable/2008/02/08MADRID98.html

and

http://213.251.145.96/cable/2009/05/09MADRID482.html

(Note: These links may not be active for very long because the governments of the world are obviously trying to shut down all the websites that post this information. The truth, it seems, is just too dangerous to allow it to be openly published.)

How to turn all this around

Don't let all this get you down. You can take action to help turn this around!

Action Item #1) Don't buy GMO foods! Look for the non-GMO "Project Verified" label on foods.

Action Item #2) Urge lawmakers to oppose GMOs or require honest GMO labeling of foods.

Action Item #3) Help support the Institute for Responsible Technology and other non-profits working to oppose GMOs.

Action Item #4) Stay informed! Read NaturalNews and our Facebook GMO Dangers page (www.**************GMO.dangers) to stay up on this issue. The IRT (above) will keep you even more deeply informed on GMOs.

Action Item #5) Share what you know! Share videos, cartoons, articles and websites with your friends and family members who also care about protecting their health from GMOs.

Action Item #6) Don't trust the government! They are pushing a GMO conspiracy. They don't want you to have natural food, and the FDA is now being unleashed under the new food safety bill to destroy small farmers who tend to use non-GMO crops. Fight against government encroachment of our natural right to grow honest food. Support food freedom!

Learn more about GMOs

Get the truth from Jeffrey Smith at: www.ResponsibleTechnology.org

See the GMO page on NaturalNews: www.NaturalNews.com/GMOs.html

Join our anti-GMO page on Facebook: www.**************GMO.dangers

Watch my Just Say No to GMO video! It's now available in four languages:

English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnN6FFjZBZQ
Chinese: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz9sNRdu5ek
Spanish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mit-oZ4QPjI
Polish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2FLUR0yqYM


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/030828_GMOs_Wikileaks.html#ixzz1yjpzVwa6

Oh there's a lot more, you just have to "look". Oh and sis Zaria, it's only a conspiracy theory if you are unaware of the "facts" :)

Scimi
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
06-24-2012, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
sometimes it's useful to look at the possible link and reflect on it,
not just go by pharmaceutical company funded medical journals,
Such medical journals would be seen conflicts of interest and wouldnt be published. Just like Andrew Jeremy Wakefield had multiple undeclared conflicts of interest , had manipulated the evidence and had broken other ethical codes in his research that claims to link MMR and Autism.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
06-24-2012, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Snowflake
Infectious disease spreads when disease control is compromised. If a person is kept in isolation and hygiene is practiced, then we wouldn't have epidemics or the need for mass immunization. Amazingly, we have more diseases since science intervened.
How can a person be kept in "isolation"? We have to go outside some point in our lives. We have also seen decrease in some diseases. And how can you link these "more" diseases with science? Does our lifestyle not play a part in such increase? We eat more food especially fatty foods, we have more food available and we exercise less. We use cars to take us to places where as before we didnt. Children watch Tvs and play games rather than playing outside.
Reply

Abz2000
06-24-2012, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Rhubarb Tart
Such medical journals would be seen conflicts of interest and wouldnt be published. Just like Andrew Jeremy Wakefield had multiple undeclared conflicts of interest , had manipulated the evidence and had broken other ethical codes in his research that claims to link MMR and Autism.
Andrew Wakefield was picked out due to the effect he had and his character was assasinated and ethics questioned, by the very type of people who VIED for nazi scientists after WW2, scientists who had done gut wrenching tests on human beings and even killing them.

If you want proof of how corrupt medical publishing has become – read on. A long list of citations of medical journal papers claimed to be evidence vaccines are safe and do not cause autistic conditions has been posted on the blog of Seth Mnookin.
Mnookin, a journalist, vaccine/autism denialist and author of an anti-vaccine-safety book “The Panic Virus”, refuses to answer CHS’ challenge [here] about and remains silent in response to the following documented public facts.
But firstly, do vaccines cause autistic conditions? If you read nothing else we strongly recommend you read this PDF Download:– Text of email from US HRSA to Sharyl Attkisson of CBS News]. In it the US Health Resources Services Administration [HRSA] state to CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkisson

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/unsafe-vaccines-corruption-fraud-in-medical-journal-publishing/


to claim that they really care about conflicts of interest is like saying, it's a conspiracy theory to say that dick cheney was the chairman of halliburton before he decided to stand for vp, and bush and his father were owners of various oil and partners in arms companies as part of the carlyle group cartel which made billions on the iraq war, or that donald rumsfeld was the chairman of gilead sciences which developed tamiflu, while the company was pushing governments all over the world to stock up on it because of a "predicted" outbreak in the near future.
(diplomats understand subtle threats better then we laymen, they often look into the past of the person making the statement to see it's likelihood).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-Tamiflu.html
Reply

cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-24-2012, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Do we forget though, that before the widespread use of measles vaccine, its incidence was so high that infection with measles was felt to be "as inevitable as death and taxes."!

Do we forget these sort of statistics??
Here's where one of the huge problems is. Why only show from 1944 until now? What happened before The vaccine was intoduced?

This is what you showed us, and what is thought in medical school as far as I know.


yet, based on statistics which include statistics from before 1944, measles was already on the decline by the time vaccinations were enforced.


Same goes for other viruses


The decline in viruses cannot be attributed to vaccines. the question then becomes, why such a push for vaccines, who actually benefits?

Let's look at smallpox. Did the vaccine actually lessen smallpox deaths? Looks like vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths are pretty much the same...


Here's a comparison taken place in the later 1800's early 1900's, compare the fatality rates of unvaccinated vs the vaccinated.


I would like people to pay special attention to the money involved here. Brother Abz2000 mentioned the rockerfeller family..... bankers.


There's plenty of legit information out there, from MD's themselves as well, one just has to have patience to read through it. here's a good place to start http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/, there's much more to it than just a couple of websites.

Those of you who are in the medical field, don't take this personal. I've never met a medical student or pharmacist with ill intentions, most of them dedicate their lives to this in order to help the sick, that is commendable. They are sincere, but not necessarily right. The evil here is the people who drive the education, the information being thought to medical students is flawed and driven by money. Those of us who take time to understand both sides of the issue shouldn't be labeled as irresponsible or biased. I wouldn't make such a huge decision to no vaccinate my children just because of some lame article floating on the internet, this has taken YEARS to understand. It's not some hasty spur-of-the-moment decision.

- cOsMiC
Reply

Abz2000
06-24-2012, 08:39 PM
Donald Rumsfeld's controversial links to drug company behind Tamiflu


The drug company behind the swine flu medicine Tamiflu is at the centre of controversy over its links to former US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.


Mr Rumsfeld, a former chairman of the company, has refused to comment on whether he still holds shares in Californian firm Gilead Sciences, which developed the drug now being desperately stockpiled by governments around the world to combat the threatened pandemic.


Mr Rumsfeld has previously been accused of a potential conflict of interest over his links to Gilead Sciences, which sold the licensing rights for the medicine to Swiss giant Hoffman-La Roche in 1996. ...




.....Under the terms of the deal Gilead, headed by Mr Rumsfeld between 1997 and 2001, still receives between 14 and 22 per cent of the income from the wholesale trade in the drug, depending on the volume of sales.
Four years ago the value of Mr Rumsfeld’s shares in Gilead Sciences saw a huge hike from an estimated £3million to an estimated £17million over the avian flu scare.


It was partially sparked by a warning from President Bush’s top health adviser Mike Leavitt that a pandemic could cause nearly two million deaths in the US alone.


When details of Mr Rumsfeld’s shareholding became public he consulted a lawyer who advised him to keep the stock but excuse himself from any government decisions involving the flu drug.


He issued a document explaining the situation.
Some months later the Pentagon ordered £39million worth of the Tamiflu drug for US troops.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1176743/Donald-Rumsfelds-controversial-links-drug-company-Tamiflu.html




Reply

Na'imah
06-24-2012, 09:16 PM
As salaamu alaikum,

I have some interesting reads (links) regarding corruption in Big Pharma. As soon as I'm allowed to post links, I'll drop them here, insha'Allah. :) :BeRightBack:
Reply

جوري
06-24-2012, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Do we forget these sort of statistics??
The problem unfortunately is we have folks who don't know how to read scientific articles, interpret statistics or understand scientific data populating orphan articles or opinions from defunct academics many with an agenda all their own that support their position (missing in the process) the possibility that they're being duped from a different pole all together. The only truly sad thing about this, is when they endanger the lives of their children.
At the end of the day the best you can do is lay out the facts (and that's your civic duty for the oath you took) and they're free to makeup their minds, not read what you post or answer the difficult questions, they're not free however to foment public opinion with misinformation.

:w:
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
06-24-2012, 09:49 PM
In 1974, Japan had a successful pertussis (whooping cough) vaccination program, with nearly 80% of Japanese children vaccinated. That year only 393 cases of pertussis were reported in the entire country, and there were no deaths from pertussis. But then rumors began to spread that pertussis vaccination was no longer needed and that the vaccine was not safe, and by 1976 only 10% of infants were getting vaccinated. In 1979 Japan suffered a major pertussis epidemic, with more than 13,000 cases of whooping cough and 41 deaths. In 1981 the government began vaccinating with acellular pertussis vaccine, and the number of pertussis cases dropped again.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

Mendelsohn reasons that inoculations are ineffective because the diseases diminished not only in the U.S. when vaccinations were widespread but also in Europe even though no mass immunizations took place there. I don't know if this is true, but it should be. In isolated populations with little immunity to a disease, one would expect an infectious disease to either kill people or make them immune to further infection. In any case, whether infectious diseases diminished without inoculation is irrelevant to the causal effectiveness of vaccines. What is relevant, for example, is that the incidence of measles certainly went down due to vaccination programs in the U.S. and the U.K. (Now that a significant number of parents do not have their children vaccinated, measles outbreaks have occurred in both the U.S. and the U.K.)

http://www.skepdic.com/antivaccination.html

If everybody in a population is vaccinated, the chances of contracting the disease is near zero. But the more people in a population who do not get vaccinated, the more the whole population is jeopardized. Imagine a robust individual who is not vaccinated and gets mumps. Before his parents keep him home from school he infects half his classmates, some have been vaccinated and are not affected. Some have not been vaccinated and they get the mumps. Most recover. Maybe one of the non-vaccinated dies. There may also be a child who was vaccinated but who is not very robust and she gets infected by several people, some of whom have been vaccinated and some who have not. Both can be carriers of the virus. The weak but vaccinated girl dies. Does this mean the vaccine doesn't work? No. It means that if some people don't get vaccinated they can jeopardize those who do. On the other hand, if most people have been vaccinated, those in the population who haven't been vaccinated benefit from the actions of the others and get protection against the disease without being vaccinated. If too many people take this free-ride approach, the group suffers.

The underlined part is for someone who mentioned that they were not vaccinated and hasn’t caught any diseases.


If you allow your children to catch the disease, they run the risk of being seriously ill or even dying. On the other hand, the vaccines only rarely cause serious adverse effects. It is true that vaccines do not give long lasting protection 100% of the time but then neither do many diseases. For example, you can catch whooping cough, Hib, meningococcal disease and rubella more than once. However, even if a child does catch the disease after they have had the vaccine, the disease is usually milder. By giving the vaccine most children are spared the effects of the disease. Even if immunity from the vaccine wears off, if enough people are immunized, there will be herd immunity and so this should not be a problem. This will protect people who have lost their immunity.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ich/homepage


vaccines and harm
There is evidence, however, that some vaccines do cause harm. In northern Nigeria, there was a polio outbreak in the summer of 2003 that was triggered by a vaccine designed to eliminate it.*

Muslim clerics and disgruntled northern politicians banned polio vaccinations in the area, claiming that the drugs were a Western ploy to spread HIV and sterilize Muslim girls. The year-long mass boycott of the vaccine sparked a rash of new infections, and the virus jumped to about a dozen other countries — a devastating rollback for a polio eradication campaign that seemed finally on the verge of success....

...the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control revealed in early October [2007] that 69 Nigerian children had been paralyzed by polio virus since 2005 — and had contracted the illness through exposure to the live virus found in the oral vaccine ....(Time)
Even so, vaccine coverage has doubled countrywide in Nigeria from 35% in 2005 to a high of about 76% in 2007. Rates of new infections have dropped dramatically. Nigeria no longer has the highest number of polio cases worldwide. In 2006, Nigeria accounted for 1,125 of the 2,000 polio cases worldwide. In 2007, there were only 198 cases through October. In 2008, however, there were 788 cases, prompting a vigorous campaign to encourage vaccination.* (For comparison, in 1988 there were 350,000 new cases of polio in 125 countries, most of them in the developing world.*)

"The campaign to eradicate the polio virus must be intensified," says Sheikh Ahmed Gumbi, the powerful chief imam of the Sultan Bello mosque in Kaduna [Nigeria's second largest northern city]. "The good job must be completed. The vaccine is safe and healthy, despite a few cases of vaccine-induced infections. The immunization should continue until Nigeria is polio free." (Time)
Reply

Abz2000
06-24-2012, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
The problem unfortunately is we have folks who don't know how to read scientific articles, interpret statistics or understand scientific data populating orphan articles or opinions from defunct academics many with an agenda all their own that support their position (missing in the process) the possibility that they're being duped from a different pole all together. The only truly sad thing about this, is when they endanger the lives of their children.
At the end of the day the best you can do is lay out the facts (and that's your civic duty for the oath you took) and they're free to makeup their minds, not read what you post or answer the difficult questions, they're not free however to foment public opinion with misinformation.
that reminds me of this :)

i've forwarded it to the exact scene, watch for 60 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8kCO...ilpage#t=4223s
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
06-24-2012, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
The problem unfortunately is we have folks who don't know how to read scientific articles, interpret statistics or understand scientific data populating orphan articles or opinions from defunct academics many with an agenda all their own that support their position (missing in the process) the possibility that they're being duped from a different pole all together. The only truly sad thing about this, is when they endanger the lives of their children.
At the end of the day the best you can do is lay out the facts (and that's your civic duty for the oath you took) and they're free to makeup their minds, not read what you post or answer the difficult questions, they're not free however to foment public opinion with misinformation.

:w:
I went to several anti –vaccine websites and each and every one of them had statistics that has been posted in this thread from those agruing against it.
Reply

Qurratul Ayn
06-24-2012, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
that reminds me of this :)

i've forwarded it to the exact scene, watch for 60 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8kCO...ilpage#t=4223s
^^I've clicked and it's taken me to the beginning of the clip, what part is it that you would like us to see, Brother Abz2000?
Reply

جوري
06-24-2012, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
that reminds me of this :)

i've forwarded it to the exact scene, watch for 60 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8kCO...ilpage#t=4223s
Ironic isn't it? Who you identify with in this scene -- neither the 'savages' nor the 'civilized' are correct or just.. but the 'civilized' patriarch gets it in a way the corpus of both parties don't. Who you should strive to be is a free thinker .. and judging from the almost herd like acceptance of some of the negatory articles presented here I'd say, you're indeed holding on to popular opinion. But is said popular opinion borne of reason and understanding? I personally don't think so. Accuracy is usually never severely skewed to the left or right but lie somewhere in the middle and in order for you to understand it correctly, you've to have learned it from the people who studied it correctly.

:w:
Reply

Abz2000
06-24-2012, 10:06 PM
sister, if you want to re-gain the shephard's trust in having their sheep vaccinated, the best advice would be to not hire the wolf to make the potion.

the Prophet pbuh used to take medicine when he wanted to, but then, it wasn't made by rumsfeld.
i am not denying that there are cures out there for certain illnesses, and if you look back at my posts you will see that my main concern is about the people making it.
but i definitely would rather trust in God than go to Dajjal for a polio shot.
and i would continue to warn people about Dajjal's deception.

and also, let me assure you that there is a high likelihood of there being a barrage of huge manufactured pestilences in the near future, but if you'd look a little further into it, you will often find that the people making the cure, are the very people making the disease in their pentagon funded bio-warfare labs.

and no, it's not a conspiracy theory, just research the term bio-warfare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Biol ogical_weapons


also, since you seem to have done some research on this issue, i would be very interested if you could please check the statistics and percentage of incidence a decade before vaccination began, and the percentage of incidence after vaccination slowed down.
JazakAllah khairan.
Reply

جوري
06-24-2012, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
also, since you seem to have done some research on this issue, i would be very interested if you could please check the statistics and percentage of incidence a decade before vaccination began, and the percentage of incidence after vaccination slowed down.
JazakAllah khairan.
Data has been interpreted by Sr. Zaria. I commented on confounders and asked a couple of Q's to the validity of the claims that went unanswered, as such I don't feel like I have anything further to impart. I am obviously not holding a gun to anyone's head and telling them to do or else. You'll be interested to know that the mere fact that you know of the wolf who stands to gain from some companies is in an of itself a transparency on behalf of the medical community whose interests don't lie in politics rather the progression of science.

:w:
Reply

cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-24-2012, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by Rhubarb Tart
I went to several anti –vaccine websites and each and every one of them had statistics that has been posted in this thread from those agruing against it.
What is the point of this comment rhubarb? pro-vaccination websites, which are mostly government websites or university websites have charts that begin in the 1940's. If they provided information from before that, there wouldn't have to be separate "anti-vaccine" websites and books. So, of course if you look in those places you will find them.

- cOsMiC
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Qurratul Ayn
06-24-2012, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Qurratul Ayn
OK, just one question; it may be out of topic but please forgive me...


In America, are vaccines being given to children without their parents' permissions, in secondary schools?

Just asking :) Then you can get back onto the discussion
I don't like quoting myself, but no one has answered my question, please answer it! I would appreciate it if the Americans answered it as they will likely be more aware of the answer

:jz: in advance
Reply

Abz2000
06-24-2012, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Qurratul Ayn
^^I've clicked and it's taken me to the beginning of the clip, what part is it that you would like us to see, Brother Abz2000?
1hr:10 mins:23 secs to 1hr:11mins:23 secs

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
I am obviously not holding a gun to anyone's head and telling them to do or else. You'll be interested to know that the mere fact that you know of the wolf who stands to gain from some companies is in an of itself a transparency on behalf of the medical community whose interests don't lie in politics rather the progression of science.
sadly sister, i have experienced first hand their willingness to lie openly while totally exposed on behalf of those in positions of authority, along also with their willingness to disregard significant findings in order to comply with instructions, so i am definitely unconverted.

and does it not even raise a single question in your mind, how, someone who is in the position of overlooking biological weapons can be a crucial member of an anti-virus company that pushes governments to buy it's product with the threat of a pandemic?
these companies have to develop strains, and multiple mutated strains while testing their products - while he's in the position of secretary of defense before that 1975, and again in 2001?

these people are transgressors, and have the authority to put pressure on establishments and scientists, and even strike them off under irrelevant guises, is it a crime to ask questions and share findings?

it seems some of us are content to go with the info they give us, and we attack those who raise valid questions, despite us not having conducted these tests or done the research ourselves.

O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth,
lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.
Quran 49:6

i still remember how there was a biological attack on certain media offices and politicians in the u.s immediately after the 9/11 false flag, an attack that was certain to have stifled a lot of brave reporting, it was anthrax - Ames strain, first studied at Fort Detrick U.S. Army Medical Command installation, Maryland, USA.
you think it still doesn't exist? and that scientists are immune to it?

From 1945 to 1955 under Project Paperclip and its successors, the U.S. government recruited over 1,600 Nazi German and Austrian scientists and engineers in a variety of fields such as aircraft design, missile technology and biological warfare. Among the specialists in the latter field who ended up working in the U.S. were Walter Schreiber, Erich Traub and Kurt Blome, who had been involved with medical experiments on concentration camp inmates to test biological warfare agents. Since Britain, France and the Soviet Union were also engaged in recruiting these scientists, the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA) wished to deny their services to other powers, and therefore altered or concealed the records of their Nazi past and involvement in war crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Detrick

those are the people who research viruses and vaccines, i'm sure you'll acknowledge by now that andrew wakefield's ethics weren't really of much concern to them in contrast to his findings.

but when you find that these people, the heads of these people, are involved in the business of viruses and vaccines, i'm sure you can forgive me for wondering if something is badly wrong.

here's andrew wakefield's defence of their claims, and response to the irrational cnn and fox news type hit piece interviews


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Tyrion
06-25-2012, 12:38 AM
I've noticed something recently within the general religious population, and while this may only be partially related to this thread, I felt like it was something worth pointing out. It seems to me that some of us tend to look at things outside our religion and treat it how we would our own tradition. This happens very often with scientific findings, but 'conspiracy theories' may stem from this as well.

For example, when we think of scriptures, we understand that if we find one mistake, we may have serious reasons to doubt the entire thing. This, however, should not be the way people think about most non-religious topics, yet I see it all the time. If you find one or two dissenting opinions among many in a particular field, it does not automatically give you reason to throw away the entire subject. One or two scientists who bring up some controversial findings shouldn't be enough to make you disregard all other work in that field, especially if you have not studied it yourself.
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Abz2000
06-25-2012, 01:00 AM
it shouldn't indeed, but it should definitely make one stop and reflect, and put some time into researching these claims and seeing what true and what's false,
and from the fox news and cnn hit interviews along with irrational attacks on wakefield, i decided to see what he himself said, he seems to have clarified most - if not all - the misconceptions and lies told about him:



Originally Posted by Tyrion
One or two scientists who bring up some controversial findings shouldn't be enough to make you disregard all other work in that field,
neither should they be demonized, character assassinated, and then struck off the practitioners list based on an unrelated premise.
Reply

Na'imah
06-25-2012, 01:22 AM


Originally Posted by Qurratul Ayn

I don't like quoting myself, but no one has answered my question, please answer it! I would appreciate it if the Americans answered it as they will likely be more aware of the answer

:jz: in advance
Yes. This has definitely happened. I can't post links yet, but just Google, "vaccination given to student without parent's permission" and you'll find several incidents like this.
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Muhaba
06-25-2012, 01:44 AM
I think it has been proven over many years that immunization does work in preventing diseases. there used to be diseases such as small pox that were deadly and quickly reached epidemic levels but alhamdu lillah, Allah gave man knowledge that enabled him to make vaccines and those vaccines were succesful of course by the Grace of Allah and so diseases were prevented.

so i beleive that ppl should immunize their children unless it's proven that a particular vaccine is either useless or harmful.

in today's society immunization is even necessary. for example, you can't send your children to school unless they are immunized. that's done to prevent diseases from spreading amongst school children.
Reply

Rhubarb Tart
06-25-2012, 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
neither should they be demonized, character assassinated, and then struck off the practitioners list based on an unrelated premise.
They should be, if they have been proven to have done wrong, which is the case with Wakefield. Posting a video of him defending is like posting a video of a murderer caught red handed defending himself. Have you read his work? I have. I read everything. And if he was so innocent, why didn’t he conduct the research without being funded by lawyers who were building a case against MMR, for example? His work was a joke. He FAILED to carry out his research properly! I would have defended him if he did carry his research correctly. He didnt. And many of us would have been dead if we were to allow doctors and medical researcher to conduct all research in the same manner he did.



IF you don’t trust doctors, research and medical treatment, I suggest you and everyone else in the same position withdraw from seeing doctors and going to hospital and don’t send your children to school (placing other children and vulnerable patient at risk!). And you have not explained if why Japan saw sudden (just TWO years) increase in polio after vaccinations for many children were stopped or Nigeria?


Bear in mind, scientist has never claimed vaccinations alone was responsible for the decline in many diseases. They claim it was responsible for eradicating these diseases altogether. If for instance, hygiene is the main reason like most of you have claimed. Then why was there sudden increase polio in Japan when they were hygienic at the time? We are not talking about undeveloped country like Nigeria where the increase may be due to hygiene.
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CosmicPathos
06-25-2012, 03:59 AM
alternative medicine is good for maintaining health, and rarely for correcting a diseases state. But for acute emergencies, alternative med is simply suicide. Skepticism is good but why not be skeptical of these "whistle blowers" who somehow know the secrets? Remember that italian doctor who claimed to treat cancer by sodium bicarbonate! He claimed acidic pH results in cancer!! what an idiot spreading false knowledge to public. If that was true then why did not ppl with metabolic acidosis develop cancer?

Anyone remembers the whole movement that AIDs is not caused by HIV? There are electron microscope micrographs showing the budding of HIV particles from a AIDs patient's cells. Then the conspiracy theories came that HIV was developed by US govt. And then that H5N1 was engineered. And Spanish Flu was engineered. So on and so forth.

Go to Pakistan. Meet the children paralyzed by polio virus. Feel their pain in your heart. And then see how oral polio vaccine has prevented thousands of children from becoming paralyzed. From getting their lives ruined. From becoming dependent on others for the rest of their lives. Feel some empathy in your heart. Be thankful that we can prevent paralysis caused by polio virus. For people born in Pakistan, it could have been one of us paralyzed today if we had gotten polio virus. Be thankful to Allah for creating a means to escape paralysis caused by polio virus.
Reply

جوري
06-25-2012, 04:44 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
sadly sister, i have experienced first hand their willingness to lie openly while totally exposed on behalf of those in positions of authority, along also with their willingness to disregard significant findings in order to comply with instructions, so i am definitely unconverted.
I am not looking to convert you haven't you been browsing the forum? :p
A personal experience doesn't an expose make least of which on behalf of the entire medical community which is also not circumscribed to your territory -- surely you conceive that doctors exist in every spot of the world and that research, biotechnology and manufacture of vaccine isn't restricted to the west & that contrary to popular belief here, they're not out to get you. Rather they seek medicine for a genuine love of healing and helping.
I can't even classify what you (collectively) posted here as an observational study ..what it is, is testimony.. it is marketing and you're intelligent enough to secern the difference. If you just by mere diction know the difference between Hadith & Quran, between right and wrong, between night and day, between seriousness and play then you can use that judgement to discern real medicine from quackery.

:w:
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Abz2000
06-25-2012, 12:27 PM
IF you don’t trust doctors, research and medical treatment, I suggest you and everyone else in the same position withdraw from seeing doctors and going to hospital and don’t send your children to school (placing other children and vulnerable patient at risk!).
Sister, I haven't been to visit a doctor for medicine since 2004 (except when I needed a photo attested),
And I allowed my first son to be vaccinated out of ignorance,
But then I did my own research, oddly, he's the only one who displays signs of hyperactivity and total heedlessness when it comes to climbing and injuring himself around the house, he also has a problem of not being able to concentrate much when taught anything).
God knows why that is, it could be unrelated.
But yes,
We avoid medication when possible (not that I think it's wrong), but because I believe in allowing the body's natural response system to work whenever possible, and I am also aware that the immune system works in reverse when you suddenly flood your system with a medicine to do the work, because the immune system tries to normalise),

Anyway, yes, I avoid it when possible (hopefully i'll go to my maker before becoming weak and dependent on Medication to survive),
And yes, I also home school my children, because I don't believe we're made from monkeys, apes, or orangutans as told, and because I don't want them to get kufr virus, however, due to the rat race making it a little stressful and difficult, along with the corruption, and undignified way in which this government pushes usury at people leaving us unable to buy homes with cash due to their relationship with banks who inflate the prices of homes beyond reach unless you go to them, I am leaving this country soon inshaAllah and going somewhere where private tuition is cheaper and I can build without harassment :)


Sister lamees, I believe u r aware that politics does play a huge role in scientific journals, because u know that they hide the concept that we are created, while using totally irrational data and reasoning to prove to us that we're just beasts who need to submit to the beast who wants to dominate us while we feel helpless..

I'm going to post a clip later when I'm on the pc which I hope you'll all watch, it may make us reflect.
Reply

~Zaria~
06-25-2012, 02:29 PM
Assalamu-alaikum,


Originally Posted by Scimitar
I care not what the Doctors say here, all I know is, vaccinations for babies show absolutely no faith in Allah - and I have a massive problem with that.
Im having a massive problem with the imaans of doctors/ those who decide to vaccinate their kids being judged.

“Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah” (At-Tirmidhi).

Tying ones camel = trying to prevent the animal from escaping (by the will of Allah)
Having a vaccine = trying to prevent being afflicted from a particular disease (by the will of Allah).

We place our trust in our Rabb, AND we are making the effort to protect ourselves.

Originally Posted by Scimitar
Oh there's a lot more, you just have to "look". Oh and sis Zaria, it's only a conspiracy theory if you are unaware of the "facts" :)
Im still waiting for the 'facts' - about vaccines.

Oh yes.......there are no facts.
Only speculations and building on conspiracy theories.

As mentioned:

"I see that you need evidential proofs, and there is nothing wrong with that - but really now, you know sis Zaria, that this info will not be made public fact til 30 yrs have elapsed... by which time you'll all be scratching your heads thinking "what a world we live in"."
Well, its been a good few decades of vaccines - and still we wait to see this flood of 'Victims of Vaccines'.

Lets see what we DO know - REALITY CHECK!

Lets take some case scenarios:

Case 1:
I'll share with everyone a story of a collegue of mine:

KZN doctor died of swine flu

16 Sep 2009 | Sne Masuku | 0 comments




THE death toll from the H1N1 virus in KwaZulu-Natal has risen to five.
The authorities confirmed yesterday that a doctor who died last month had contracted the H1N1 virus.


Irshad Moola of KwaDukuza, north of Durban, died at a local private hospital after a short illness.
His family and the provincial department of health confirmed that the doctor died of swine flu after falling ill with what appeared to be flu symptoms.


His bereaved father Farouk Moola said his son was admitted to hospital complaining of difficulty breathing and experiencing flu-like symptoms and died two days later.


"My son died of the H1N1 flu after being ill for two days," he said.
"His death was so sudden and is a great loss to the family."
Moola had been working at KwaDukuza Hospital for five years . He is the first health practitioner to die of swine flu.
The virus has claimed the lives of more than 30 people in South Africa and about 11253 have been infected in the past few months .
(For those interested in placing a life and a face to the brother who lost his life to the epidemic that had just reached South Africas shores at the time - there is a FB page in his memory: http://www.**************pages/Irsha...r/129091262162
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raajioon)

So, what should the advise be to those medical personnel/ family members who were in direct contact with this young brother(as well as other victims) - and are therefore at high risk of contracting the virus themselves?

Answer: Vaccinate.

“Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah” (At-Tirmidhi).


Case
2:

How should a young HIV positive pregnant be advised?
Should she take anti-retrovirals - that have been proven in randomised controlled trials to reduce the risk of mother-to-child transmission from 25-30% to less than 2%?

Answer: Preventative ARVs required.

“Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah” (At-Tirmidhi).

Case 3:

You are travelling to a malaria-stricken region in Africa.
It is peak malaria season, and there have been thousands already afflicted by the disease - many losing their lives as a result of complications and poor access to health-care.

What should you do?
Answer: Take malaria chemo-prophylaxis (i.e. medication that will insha Allah, prevent disease even if you are bitten by an infected mosquito).

“Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah” (At-Tirmidhi).



And I can go on......


The point is the following:


Yes, there are many theories as to how outbreaks originate.
Are they a result of laboratory-engineering/ genetically modifications?

WHO knows BUT Allah (subhanawataála ) himself!

At the end of the day - I, as well other health-care practioners are facing ACTUAL PEOPLE, SUFFERING FROM ACTUAL DISEASE, OFTEN FACING DEATHS DOOR.
These patients are not figments of our imagination.
Their diseases are real.
Their disabilities and deaths are real.

Does Mr X whose son is fighting for his life from a certain virus/ bacteria or the doctor who is looking after him, CARE, at that point in time, whether:
- the virus/ bacteria is part of some greater picture?
- that Mr Rumsfield is the chairman of Tamiflu company?

Should it make a difference to our management?
Should I withold antibiotics/ anti-virals (the ones whose efficacy we have witnessed with our own eyes) - because of views that include: 'we think', 'perhaps', 'maybe'?

NO!
Alhamdulillah.

Irrespective of whether the above is true or not - Allah knows best - there is a persons life at the end of this line!


I personally have been witness to many many deaths from HIV and TB in my country.
So many......I have honestly lost count.
What I see, e.g. is the 25 year old man, weighing only 40 kg, bedridden - his body wasted from the effects of his disease.

I PRAY that a vaccine for HIV/ TB, by the will of Allah can be found!

Please people - open your eyes!

Yes, there are sinister people out there, with evil intentions of biologic war-fare.
And, I trust that Allah will take them to account!
If not in this life, then in the aakhirah.

@ sis cosmic:

Just as you may question the accuracy of the figures/ graphs presented from the medical field, so too do I question those that are being pumped through the anti-vaccine sites.
One need only google: 'I hate vaccines', 'Vaccines bad for you', 'Vaccines harmful' - to reach a completely skewed perception by the fear-mongerers out there.

You find what you are looking for.

So:

I find it amazing to have such precise mapping of mortality rates from 1900 on measles for example, when:

the measles virus itself was first discovered in 1930, and John F. Enders of the Children's Hospital in Boston successfully isolated the measles virus in 1954!
Amazing.
(I am aware that it was a persian physician to first clinically differentiate between the smallpox and measles).


In any case, Im not here to change peoples minds - who are set against vaccinations.
This is your decision.

Im simply here to balance the scales - for those innocent readers who visit this forum, and may be influenced by un-evidenced theories.


This is my last post on this insha Allah.
(I have exams in a matter of weeks, insha Allah. Please remember me in your duaas).


:wa:
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جوري
06-25-2012, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Sister lamees, I believe u r aware that politics does play a huge role in scientific journals, because u know that they hide the concept that we are created, while using totally irrational data and reasoning to prove to us that we're just beasts who need to submit to the beast who wants to dominate us while we feel helpless..

I'm going to post a clip later when I'm on the pc which I hope you'll all watch, it may make us reflect.
In the journals I was involved with one guy fudged data, we lost the funding and he was dismissed in a most humiliating fashion. Yes people want to get published and want to get govt. grants. I can't speak for the work that happens in the govt. But I can speak for what we independently publish and do the work, the research, collect the data and cross reference for originality i.e not plagiarized. So I have no idea what you're talking about nor understand where the whole we're just beasts is come from?
It is your right to raise your kids as you please. But even if what you say were the truth, censorship isn't the way to raise strong seasoned Muslims, that comes from looking at both sides of the coin.. else we end up like the Zionists who capture Muslim kids at at 3 to teach them history as they want it taught not as it actually is..

:w:
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Abz2000
06-25-2012, 04:27 PM
here, i found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...lilZho#t=6092s

or go to 1hr 41mins 31 seconds



but the whole documentary is just riveting.

-----------------------------

sister lamees, the tests and research you get to do in your local hospital or research center are nothing anywhere near what the big pharma heads, bankers, and politicians discuss and decide.
find something out of place or scary which will affect their balance sheet and watch how quickly a national security gag gets slapped on you.

and are you unaware that they even purposefully infected innocent people with syphilis through vaccination programs?
this is not theory, it's documented fact.
and there are even journals that claim it is "good for the teeth" to make you INGEST fluoride along with your tap water,
do you believe them?
maybe the nazi concentration camps fluoridated the water of the victims because they cared about their teeth.
and the fact that more than THREE QUARTERS of the people in the City of Southampton in england signed a petition demanding that their water not be fluoridated fell on deaf ears when the judge over-ruled the case saying that forcefully fluoridating their water was not an infringement of their democratic rights - shows what they think of you.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/

http://realdemocracynow.net/0-23155-judges-rule-to-allow-water-fluoridation-angers-residents.html

‘It is important to stress that our democratic Parliament decided long ago that water can, in certain circumstances, be fluoridated,’ he added.‘It is not the law that fluoridation can occur only when a majority of the local population agree. Parliament has firmly entrusted area-specific decision making to the relevant strategic health authority.’Miss Milner’s counsel, David Wolfe, said the health authority’s decision meant that approximately 195,000 people in Southampton and parts of south-west Hampshire ‘would have fluoride added to their water whether they liked it or not’.

http://www.infowars.com/judge-oks-ad...ic-opposition/

these people are evil.
Reply

جوري
06-25-2012, 04:29 PM
I need science not movies :)
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Abz2000
06-25-2012, 04:42 PM
show me your research :)
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جوري
06-25-2012, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
show me your research :)
My research was concerned with medications to minimize blood loss during back surgeries, & the other concerned with preventing blindness during a protracted surgical course from fluid overload. I don't have my doctorate in psychology and pretend for instance to be the authority on immunization, nor do I pretend Islamic scholarship whereby I make Haram what Allah swt made Halal.
However, I do have a bachelors, masters and a doctorate which means a higher education affording me a chance to understand how science works vs. how movies are made (don't know how those are made either) but apparently they're quite convincing considering.

:w:
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جوري
06-25-2012, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
and are you unaware that they even purposefully infected innocent people with syphilis through vaccination programs?
Rather they wanted to see tertiary syphilis by experimenting on blacks and not offering treatments. From that 'documented fact' new very rigid ethical laws were born.

:w:
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CosmicPathos
06-25-2012, 06:23 PM
bro abz, honestly you want us to make up our mind by these movies? these movies have more research than peer-reviewed experimental studies?
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جوري
06-25-2012, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
bro abz, honestly you want us to make up our mind by these movies? these movies have more research than peer-reviewed experimental studies?
Br. ABZ is a genuine good guy almost precludes me from countering some of the stuff he posts at times but I feel that would be dishonest on my part. Problem with this, when I see one unusual claim after the next, I start doubting the entire source of information. It becomes to me like Christianity.. sure there are truths but so marred by falsehood that leaves the whole tainted as I can't sort through it..
Reply

Scimitar
06-26-2012, 08:38 PM
Anyone have any comment to make about my research on the previous pages?

Scimi
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جوري
06-26-2012, 08:48 PM
Br. Scimi,
youtube clippings various comments isn't research! other than that I believe Zaria countered it substantially well.
Research means independent trials, with neither researchers nor participants know of whether or not they're participating in placebo, or receiving vaccines, or have any bias that could invalidate the results. There's power to the study, there's a pool, cohorts, cross sections, confounders, relative risks, P values etc. etc that are involved to give us the final picture.. I don't think anyone has done that here.

:w:
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Scimitar
06-27-2012, 12:33 PM
Sis Bluebell. I only pasted excerpts that were relevant... but you know :) I also posted links, and the info within is "leaked" from the BIG PHARMA's... and VALID.

I ask you to take a look at the reports and then comment. Or choose to stay oblivious to that which is a bane in the industry you are involved in.

Scimi

EDIT: for the sake of keeping it on topic, a short excerpt from the (kinda dark) history of vaccinations:

As has been stated before, all medical and non-medical authorities on vaccination agree that vaccines are designed to cause a mild case of the diseases they are supposed to prevent. But they also know and admit that there is no way whatsoever to predict whether the case will be mild or severe – even deadly. With this much uncertainty in dealing with the very lives of people, it is very unscientific and extremely dangerous to use such a questionable procedure as vaccination.


Many vaccines also cause other diseases besides the one for which they are given. For instance, smallpox vaccine often causes syphilis, paralysis, leprosy, and cancer. (See the chapters on smallpox and plagues.) Polio shots, diphtheria toxin-antitoxin, typhoid vaccine, as well as measles, tetanus and all other shots often cause various other stages of disease such as post-vaccinal encephalitis (inflammation of the brain,) paralysis, spinal meningitis, blindness, cancer (sometimes within two years,) tuberculosis, (two to twenty years after the shot,) arthritis, kidney disease, heart disease (heart failure sometimes within minutes after the shot and sometimes several hours later.) Nerve damage and many other serious conditions also follow the injections.


When several shots are given (different vaccines) within a few days or a few weeks apart, they often trigger intensified cases of all the diseases at once, because the body cannot handle such a large amount of deadly poison being injected directly into the bloodstream. The doctors call it a new disease and proceed to suppress the symptoms.


When poison is taken by the mouth, the internal defense system has a chance to quickly eject some of it by vomiting, but when the poisons are shot directly into the body, bypassing all the natural safeguards, these dangerous poisons circulate immediately throughout the entire body in a matter of seconds and keep on circulating until all the cells are poisoned.


I heard that seven men dropped dead in a doctor’s office after being vaccinated. This was in an army camp, so I wrote to the Government for verification. They sent me the report of U.S. Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson. The report not only verified the report of the seven who dropped dead from the vaccines, but it stated that there had been 63 deaths and 28,585 cases of hepatitis as a direct result of the yellow fever vaccine during only 6 months of the war. That was only one of the 14 to 25 shots given the soldiers. We can imagine the damage that all these shots did to the men. (See the chapter on What Vaccinations Did to Our Soldiers.)


The first World War was of a short duration, so the vaccine makers were unable to use up all their vaccines. As they were (and still are) in business for profit, they decided to sell it to the rest of the population. So they drummed up the largest vaccination campaign in U.S. history. There were no epidemics to justify it so they used other tricks. Their propaganda claimed the soldiers were coming home from foreign countries with all kinds of diseases and that everyone must have all the shots on the market.


The people believed them because, first of all, they wanted to believe their doctors, and second, the returning soldiers certainly had been sick. They didn’t know it was from doctor-made vaccine diseases, as the army doctors don’t tell them things like that. Many of the returned soldiers were disabled for life by these drug-induced diseases. Many were insane from postvaccinal encephalitis, but the doctors called it shell shock, even though many had never left American soil.


The conglomerate disease brought on by the many poison vaccines baffled the doctors, as they never had a vaccination spree before which used so many different vaccines. The new disease they had created had symptoms of all the diseases they had injected into the man. There was the high fever, extreme weakness, abdominal rash and intestinal disturbance characteristic of typhoid. The diphtheria vaccine caused lung congestion, chills and fever, swollen, sore throat clogged with the false membrane, and the choking suffocation because of difficulty in breathing followed by gasping and death, after which the body turned black from stagnant blood that had been deprived of oxygen in the suffocation stages. In early days they called it Black Death. The other vaccines cause their own reactions — paralysis, brain damage, lockjaw, etc.


When doctors had tried to suppress the symptoms of the typhoid with a stronger vaccine, it caused a worse form of typhoid which they named paratyphoid. But when they concocted a stronger and more dangerous vaccine to suppress that one, they created an even worse disease which they didn’t have a name for. What should they call it? They didn’t want to tell the people what it really was — their own Frankenstein monster which they had created with their vaccines and suppressive medicines. They wanted to direct the blame away from themselves, so they called it Spanish Influenza. It was certainly not of Spanish origin, and the Spanish people resented the implication that the world-wide scourge of that day should be blamed on them. But the name stuck and American medical doctors and vaccine makers were not suspected of the crime of this widespread devastation — the 1918 Flu Epidemic. It is only in recent years that researchers have been digging up the facts and laying the blame where it belongs.


Some of the soldiers may have been in Spain before coming home, but their diseases originated in their own home-based U.S. Army Camps. Our medical men still use that same dodge. When their own vaccines (required for travel) cause vaccine diseases abroad they use this as grounds for a scare campaign to stampede people into the vaccination centers. Do you remember the Hong Kong Flu and the Asian Flu and the London Flu scares? These were all medically-made epidemics mixed with the usual common colds which people have every year.


In 1976 we were being worked on again by the vaccine -epidemic makers in their effort to force another multi million dollar vaccine sale caper. Their con men have already talked President Ford into handing over $135 million dollars to start their vaccine racket. Even the insurance companies refused to become involved with such an obviously dangerous and crooked scheme. So, again the medical and drug con men induced the appropriate government officials to guarantee insurance against the, possible billions of dollars in law suits which could be brought against the vaccine promoters if the vaccine campaign is carried out as planned. It’s a good thing Ford was voted out of office. It’s too bad he wasn’t “dumped” before he paid the poison squad the MONEY’ to poison the whole population. However, we don’t yet know if President Carter will be any better. Will he be held in the grip of the medical and drug dictatorship? Or will he investigate — learn the truth — reverse the decisions and make the vaccine makers return the money taken from the taxpayers under false pretenses?


The statement of the swine flu vaccine promoters to the effect that the vaccine is harmless, is false, and the statement that it will protect against flu is false. Fifty-six people died after the shots, some within 48 hours. There is confusion and disagreement among the doctors about all aspects of the vaccine, from the safety and effectiveness to the necessity for it, who should have it and who should be warned against it.


Their scare-head campaign cry is that the swine flu is like the 1918 flu which killed 20,000,000 people. They don’t have any usable and provable blood samples from the 1918 flu epidemic to prove it. That was 58 years ago, and the doctors were just as confused and inefficient then as now. However, one thing is certain — the 1918 Spanish Influenza was a vaccine-induced disease caused by extreme body poisoning from the conglomeration of many different vaccines. The soldiers at Fort Dix who were said to have had Swine Flu had been injected with a large variety of vaccines like the vaccines which caused the 1918 flu epidemic. The flu epidemic at Fort Dix was in no way related to swine. There were no swine at camp (unless we want to sarcastically call the vaccine promoters who caused the diseases -”swine.”)


To add to the confusion, the doctors tell the people that there are a lot of various kinds of flu; the one which the soldiers at Fort Dix had was AVictoria flu, there are other strains of flu virus, and also, that the swine flu vaccine which so many people have taken already will not protect them against the many other types of flu. This will be used as an “out” in case of law suits later on when more casualties begin to show up. The doctors will say that the vaccine failed because it was the wrong kind of flu for the vaccine. Of course, no one can prove it one way or the other because viruses are illusive, invisible organisms which are unstable and unpredictable. One dictionary definition of virus is “a morbid poison.” The vaccines injected into the body are poison and cause the typical poison reactions. Virus (poison) does not fly around and attack people.


Therefore, there will be no swine flu epidemic unless the vaccine promoters make one like they did in the 1918 flu epidemic. It will not kill 20,000,000 people unless the people submit to the disease-producing shots. There are also, other causes of disease besides vaccines, such as bad food, which has been devitalized and contaminated with poison preservatives and artificial drug concoctions. There are many more causes of disease but no diseases are contagious(See the chapter on the germ theory).


Vaccine drives come and go as often as the vaccine promoters can cook up the slightest pretense of a reason.n Back in1957 they were trying to stir up a vaccination campaign for what they decided to call Asiatic flu. An editorial in the Herald and Express for August 29, 1957 was captioned, “Fear of Flu Propaganda.” Part of the piece is as follows:


“What a tempest in a teapot has been blown up over the probability that this country will experience an epidemic of the Asiatic flu in the fall and winter months ahead.


“Even the United States Department of Health is stooge for the panic — and has issued statements which are frightening the public, rather than reassuring them by pointing out that this epidemic, while widespread, gives no indication of being any more dangerous than our usual flood of influenza-like colds when winter comes on.


“Those who read between the lines even wonder whether the whole thing might not be a bit of super salesmanship on the part of those who are making and selling the vaccines which are being prepared.. . .”


I WAS AN ON-THE-SPOT OBSERVER OF THE 1918 INFLUENZA EPIDEMIC


All the doctors and people who were living at the time of the 1918 Spanish Influenza epidemic say it was the most terrible disease the world has ever had. Strong men, hale and hearty, one day would be dead the next. The disease had the characteristics of the black death added to typhoid, diphtheria, pneumonia, smallpox, paralysis and all the diseases the people had been vaccinated with immediately following World War 1. Practically the entire population had been injected “seeded” with a dozen or more diseases — or toxic serums. When all those doctor-made diseases started breaking out all at once it was tragic.


That pandemic dragged on for two years, kept alive with the addition of more poison drugs administered by the doctors who tried to suppress the symptoms. As far as I could find out, the flu hit only the vaccinated. Those who had refused the shots escaped the flu. My family had refused all the vaccinations so we remained well all the time. We knew from the health teachings of Graham, Trail, Tilden and others, that people cannot contaminate the body with poisons without causing disease.


When the flu was at its peak, all the stores were closed as well as the schools, businesses — even the hospital, as the doctors and nurses had been vaccinated too and were down with the flu. No one was on the streets. It was like a ghost town. We seemed to be the only family which didn’t get the flu; so my parents went from house to house doing what they could to look after the sick, as it was impossible to get a doctor then. If it were possible for germs, bacteria, virus, or bacilli to cause disease, they had plenty of opportunity to attack my parents when they were spending many hours a day in the sick rooms. But they didn’t get the flu and they didn’t bring any germs home to attack us children and cause anything. None of our family had the flu — not even a sniffle— and it was in the winter with deep snow on the ground.


When I see people cringe when someone near them sneezes or coughs, I wonder how long it will take them to find out that they can’t catch it — whatever it is. The only way they can get a disease is to develop it themselves by wrong eating, drinking, smoking or doing some other things which cause internal poisoning and lowered vitality. All diseases are preventable and most of them are cureable with the right methods, not known to medical doctors, and not all drugless doctors know them either.


It has been said that the 1918 flu epidemic killed 20,000,000 people throughout the world. But, actually, the doctors killed them with their crude and deadly treatments and drugs. This is a harsh accusation but it is nevertheless true, judging by the success of the drugless doctors in comparison with that of the medical doctors.


While the medical men and medical hospitals were losing 33% of their flu cases, the non-medical hospitals such as BATTLE CREEK, KELLOGG and MACFADDEN’S HEALTH-RESTORIUM were getting almost 100% healings with their water cure, baths, enemas, etc., fasting and certain other simple healing methods, followed by carefully worked out diets of natural foods. One health doctor didn’t lose a patient in eight years. The very successful health treatment of one of those drugless doctors who didn’t lose any patients will be given in the other part of this book, titled VACCINATION CONDEMNED, to be published a little later.


If the medical doctors had been as advanced as the drugless doctors, there would not have been those 20 million deaths from the medical flu treatment.


There was seven times more disease among the vaccinated soldiers than among the unvaccinated civilians, and the diseases were those they had been vaccinated against. One soldier who had returned from overseas in 1912 told me that the army hospitals were filled with cases of infantile paralysis and he wondered why grown men should have an infant disease. Now, we know that paralysis is a common after-effect of vaccine poisoning. Those at home didn’t get the paralysis until after the world-wide vaccination campaign in 1918.


Swine Flu Expose
a book by Eleanora I. McBean, Ph.D., N.D.
Reply

Scimitar
06-27-2012, 02:12 PM
A. Majid Katme, MBBCh, DPM (medical doctor)
Spokesman, Islamic Medical Association (UK)


January 21, 2011




A. Majid Katme, MBBCh,DPM


We are giving our innocent children haraam (forbidden) substances and harmful chemicals that destroy their natural immune systems, causing disease, suffering and death. All Muslim doctors and parents should be aware of vaccine ingredients, and of the failed efficacy of vaccines. The harm is clearly greater than the benefit. The time has come to take a stand for truth.


Vaccine Ingredients


Vaccine ingredients include heavy metals, pus from sores of diseased animals, horse serum, calf serum, faecal matter, foetal cells, urine, macerated cancer cells, sweepings from diseased children, formaldehyde (a carcinogen used in embalming fluid), phenol (a carcinogen capable of causing paralysis, convulsions, coma, necrosis and gangrene), lactalbumin hydrolysate (an emulsifier), aluminium phosphate (an aluminium salt that is corrosive to tissues), retro-virus SV-40 (a contaminant virus in some polio vaccines), antibiotics (e.g., neomycin tm) that lead to antibiotic resistance, chick embryo (as a growth medium for the virus), sodium phosphate (a buffering salt), and foreign animal tissues containing genetic material (DNA/RNA) from the growth medium. Vaccines are also contaminated with mycoplasma, bacteria, monkey viruses and various adjuvants. Heavy metals include thiomersal (mercury) as a preservative and aluminium as an adjuvant. Mercury and aluminium have each been proved to damage the brain and nervous system. In some cases, thiomersal has been replaced by another neurotoxin known as 2PE. Vaccines also contain monosodium glutamate (MSG), sorbitol, and gelatine. Many of these ingredients are not allowed for Muslims, Jews, Hindus or vegetarians.


A Fatally-flawed System of Intervention


Vaccination is based on the long-discredited theory that stimulation of antibodies in the human body equals protection from disease. This theory has not only failed to be proved, but has been repeatedly disproved. Stimulation of antibodies does not equal immunity and certainly does not equal permanent immunity. The presence of antibodies is merely a sign of exposure to a disease, which is just one small aspect of what makes up the immune system. Children, with underdeveloped and immature immune systems, receive today about 25 separate vaccines by the age of 13 months. There is no doubt this irresponsible system disrupts and can even destroy the development of their immune systems forever.



Vaccines commonly given to children in the United Kingdom today include – TWO MONTHS: diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, HIB meningitis and polio + pneumococcal (six components, two needles); THREE MONTHS: diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, HIB meningitis and polio + meningitis C (six components, two needles); FOUR MONTHS: diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, HIB meningitis and polio + pneumococcal + meningitis C (seven components, three needles); 12 MONTHS: HIB meningitis and meningitis C (two components, two needles); 13 MONTHS: measles, mumps, rubella + pneumococcal vaccine (four components, two needles). This reflects a grave medical assault inflicted on the small, weak, defenceless bodies of our innocent children.


Just a Few of the Monstrous Problems


Unthinkably, vaccine studies do not include placebo groups. Instead, they use other vaccines in “control” groups, making it impossible to properly note actual rates of adverse events between a test group and real control group. No research has been done on the long-term effects of vaccines. Post-marketing data of reactions, injury and death go ignored. Moreover, the system lacks individualization. Apparently, one size fits all. There is no pre-screening for immune problems and allergies. Overloading the human body with infections and sub-infections will irreparably disrupt and destroy the immune system. Chemicals in vaccines induce allergies, asthma, and autoimmune disease, including autism. By the way, don’t let any indoctrinated doctor tell you vaccines do not cause autism. Do your own research. Sexual immorality and adultery are stirred by offering our daughters HPV vaccination against cervical cancer. Notably and incredibly, the HPV vaccine is shown to make some recipients even more susceptible to cervical cancer. According to many scientific reports, there is additional concern that some vaccines cause infertility and are used for clandestine population control. The proper role of medicine is to work to find and prevent the root cause of disease, not treat symptoms or fill the body with chemicals and vaccines.


Islam and Medical Science Must Oppose Vaccination


The case against vaccination is first an Islamic one, based on Islamic ethos regarding the perfection of the natural human body’s immune defence system, empowered by great and prophetic guidance to avoid most infections. The case against vaccination is also a medical and health-related one. Incredible evidence, unbeknownst to most, has emerged in the West regarding the many serious health hazards that affect those who have been vaccinated.


Islam and the Immune System


Colostrum in breast milk, a rich source of myriad antibodies, is extraordinarily important in conveying immunity to the child during the first few days after birth. Breastfeeding up to two years gives incredible immunity into the future. Medical studies evidence the amazing protection of breastfeeding against infections, even including poliomyelitis. The first two years of life are a crucial time during which the child’s body will develop a natural and mature immune system. Vaccination disrupts and damages the natural process of human development. God (Allah), the Creator, the Designer, has organised for the destruction of most germs and viruses through the natural process of entry-and-defence via skin, mucous, and the stomach. This process is very different from injection of a vaccine directly into the body without crossing natural defence barriers. Twenty-five weakened diseases are destructively pushed by needlepoint into the bodies of our fragile children at a stage when they are developing their own natural defence systems.Infection and disease are medically proven to regularly succumb to spontaneous, self-remitting recovery. Childhood bouts with infectious disease help build the immune system against future attacks. As our beloved physician and prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, has told us, for every disease there is a cure. The final holy book, Al Qur’an, is an awesome medical source for both prevention and cure of disease. To best prepare the body, the Muslim should use natural and permissible nutrition from Yayyib (natural) food and drink. Of further importance, we need to address the root causes of morbidity and mortality: poverty, malnutrition, lack of clean drinking water, lack of a healthy and natural foods, lack of proper sewage, and toxins in the environment and body.The Islamic behaviour of seeking halal (lawful) and avoiding harram has been linked to health throughout time by many Muslim doctors and scientists, especially in the field of preventative medicine. Great care should be given to personal hygiene, including hand washing at about 25 times per day (15 times before the five daily prayers during wudu [absolution]). Properly practising daily personal hygiene will avoid many infections. Many fruits and other healthy foods prescribed in Islam have been found to prevent disease and strengthen the immune system, including olive and olive oil, ginger, grapes, pomegranate, vinegar, rosemary and figs. Islamic-prescribed complementary medicine protects us from disease and strengthens our natural immune system, including honey, fasting, prayer (meditation), Du’A (special prayer) for the sick, black seed, Hijama (blood cupping), holy fruits and foods, breastfeeding, aromatherapy, Zam Zam (drinking holy water at Makkah, Saudi Arabia at the time of pilgrimage), and laying on of hands with a special prayer. Frequent exposure to the sun for vitamin D and a diet rich in vitamin D prevents many diseases. Islam prohibits Muslims from taking any harmful medicine or substance. Even where there is doubt or controversy, Islam orders us to leave it completely. This applies to vaccines.


The Truth Be Told


Harram in many vaccines include human foetuses, gelatine from pork, alcohol, and human and animal parts. These najis (unclean), haraam ingredients are not given in a state of emergency to save life at present. It is ridiculous to introduce myriad infective agents into millions of people as a “just in case” prevention of future infection. It is very wrong that Muslim doctors have adopted a medical intervention that contains so many haraams and harmful chemicals.


In Islam, the human body is holy. We should protect and keep it natural, pure, healthy and safe. As vaccines are neither pure nor natural, it is no wonder that science and medicine have found them to be so incredibly dangerous. A well-orchestrated pharmaceutical industry plan of scaremongering exists to create fear in parents who do not vaccinate their children. Doctors and governments have been indoctrinated and corrupted by a gigantic and incredibly powerful industry into advocating obligatory vaccination, contrary to health and human and religious rights. This has happened not to advance health, but for profit. Vaccines should not be pushed or forced on anyone.


The Case for Opposing Vaccination


* It disrupts and destroys the natural immune systems of our innocent children


* It produces many physical and medical problems


* It increases antibiotic resistance among many patients


* It can make many people sterile or infertile


* It contains many harmful chemicals like mercury and aluminium


* It lacks scientific, independent evidence of efficacy and safety


* It contains many haraam substances for the 1600 million Muslims in the world (the latest of which is the vaccine for Meningitis for the Muslim Pilgrims who are going to Hajj was found to contain pork, which is harram.)


* It also contains substances which are prohibited for Jews, Hindus and vegetariansIt is unhygienic and full of filth


* It wastes trillions of dollars and is making the people and governments in poor third world countries poorer and more in debt, and the drug companies filthy rich


* It is medically unethical, as it took us away from dealing with the causes of the diseases and work on prevention. It is a very wrong medical practice to use a vaccine against every ill


* It lacks transparency and informed consent. Most parents, the public, and even doctors are not aware of its harms, ingredients and cost


* A rising number of doctors, health professionals and parents are joining the campaign against vaccination (websites below)



We have many natural ways to build a natural strong immune system to fight most infections
We have many natural, safe alternativesIncredibly, the Big Pharma producers of vaccines are exempt from any liability or prosecution, regardless of the number of people who die or are injuredOur innocent children are suffering and they gave no consent at all for the vaccines forced on them. This constitutes a medical assault
Web Resources


Muslim site containing a wealth of health and vaccine information http://www.missionislam.com/health
HeathyMuslim.com http://www.healthymuslim.com
International Medical Council on Vaccination http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org


http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20...-and-health-2/
Oh it get's a lot more interesting...

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-27-2012, 02:35 PM
SPECIAL REPORT - THE NEEDLE & THE DAMAGE DONE - http://www.wddty.com


10 September 2011


Before it reaches its first birthday, a baby born in America will be given 26 innoculations as part of the most intensive vaccination programme in the world—and it is the least likely of any child born in a developed country to reach the age of one. This pattern is repeated in every nation with a concentrated immunization
schedule, demonstrating a direct link between the numbers of doses given in the first year of life and infant death rates. The US has the worst infant mortality rate of 34 countries assessed in a new research study, with 6.22 infants out of 1000 dying before the age of one. As around 4 million babies are born each year in the US, this means that 24,800 will die before their first birthday, and many could be the result of over-vaccination. This is the worst infant mortality rate of all the developed nations.


It’s a far different picture from that presented by the US National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program which, last year, accepted that only 107 children had died as a direct result of a vaccine, and paid out $110 million in compensation to the families.


Researchers Neil Miller and Gary Goldman, who carried out the study, believe that many vaccine-related deaths are being ‘reclassified’ to obscure any such association. They suggest, for instance, that some infant deaths attributed to ‘sudden infant death syndrome’ (SIDS) are the result of over-vaccination. There is also evidence that the true harm that vaccines cause has never been published, and that drug companies and health regulators have colluded in the cover-up—possibly due to the belief that vaccines are a force for good, and that any harm they cause is far outweighed by their benefits.


However, there are two other possibilities for a cover-up. Any suggestion that multiple vaccinations could be harmful—or, worse, a killer—would spread doubt among parents who are always being assured by doctors that vaccines are safe, and compensation costs would put an enormous strain on a public purse that is already being tightened.


Over-vaccination appears to be the major problem—as was seen among the soldiers who suffered from Gulf War syndrome after being given an accelerated cocktail of vaccines.


But there is something else that is being added to this already toxic brew. Former drug-company researcher Helen Ratajczak has discovered that 23 different vaccines given to infants contain human DNA. Of these, the polio vaccination, which is developed in human fetal tissue, is given to babies at the age of two months.


Infant deaths


Miller and Goldman’s research draws a direct line between the intensity of a nation’s vaccination
programme and its infant mortality rate. Close behind the US in their 34-nation survey is Cuba, which administers 22 vaccine doses to infants under the age of 12 months, and has a mortality rate of 5.82 per 1000


Factfile: The bottom 10


Here are the 10 developed countries, out of a selection of 34, with the worst infant
mortality rates.


Position Country (no. of shots) IMR/1000
34 United States (26) 6.22
33 Cuba (22) 5.82
32 San Marino (18) 5.53
31 Italy (19) 5.51
30 Greece (23) 5.16
29 Ireland (23) 5.05
28 Canada (24) 5.04
27 Monaco (23) 5.00
26 New Zealand (17) 4.92
25 United Kingdom (19) 4.85


IMR/1000: infant mortality rates per 1000 children; numbers in parentheses signify the
number of vaccine shots given in the first year of life in the nation’s vaccination programme


Source: CIA. Country Comparisons: Infant mortality rate (2009).
The World Factbook (http://www.cia.gov)



The UK also fares badly; its infants are given 19 vaccine doses in their first year, and it stands 25th in the table of worst infant mortality rates with 4.85 deaths per 1000.


Conversely, Sweden and Japan have two of the lowest infant mortality rates—2.75/1000 and 2.79/1000, respectively—and they include just 12 doses in their national vaccination programmes, the lowest in the survey. On average, infant mortality rates were 3.36/1000 in nations that had 12–14 doses in their
vaccination programmes, 3.89 for 15–17 doses, 4.28 for 18–20 doses and 5.19 for 24–26 doses
(Hum Exp Toxicol, 2011; doi: 10.1177/0960327111407644).


The SIDS connection


If vaccines are a major cause of infant death, especially in the developed world, why hasn’t this been picked up before? Miller and Goldman believe that other causes—especially SIDS—are being cited, and it is also possible that over-vaccination may be playing a participatory role in the deaths even if it’s not the sole cause.
SIDS—or ‘crib death’, as it was once called—was such a rare phenomenon in the 1960s that it was not even included in the list of possible causes of infant death. Then, towards the end of the decade, a vaccination programme was introduced and, for the first time, American infants were required to have the DPT [diphtheria–tetanus–pertussis(whooping cough)], polio and MMR (measles–mumps–rubella) jabs. By 1969, a new cause of infant death—dubbed ‘sudden infant death syndrome’ or SIDS—had entered the medical lexicon, and it was sufficiently prevalent by 1973 to be included in the US National Center for Health Statistics. By 1980, it had become the leading cause of death among infants aged from 28 days to one year in the US (Pediatrics, 2002; 109:274–83).


The average annual SIDS rate fell by 8.6 per cent between 1992 and 2001 following the success of the ‘back to sleep’ campaign, where babies were placed on their backs for sleeping. However, critics argued that this supposed decrease was achieved by merely massaging the figures. Other inexplicable causes of death
among newborns—such as ‘suffocation in bed’, ‘suffocation–other’ and ‘unknown and unspecified causes’—increased dramatically. Rates of ‘suffocation in bed’ alone rose by more than 11 per cent, and the overall increase in the other categories more than wiped out any reduction achieved by the campaign.
SIDS is defined as ‘the sudden and unexpected death of an infant which remains unexplained after a thorough investigation’ and, although specific symptoms are not detected, autopsies have often discovered congestion and oedema of the lungs, and inflammation in the respiratory tract (National Center for Health
Statistics. Vital Statistics of the United States 1988, volume II, Mortality, Part A. Washington, DC: Public Health Service, 1991).


One study revealed that two thirds of SIDS victims had been given the DPT vaccination. Of these, 6.5 per cent died within 12 hours of vaccination, 13 per cent within 24 hours and 26 per cent within three days. The researcher concluded that the vaccine “may be a generally unrecognized major cause of sudden infant and early childhood death, and that the risks of immunization may outweigh its potential benefits”


(Presentation at the 34th Annual Meeting of the American Academy of Neurology, April 25–May 1, 1982, Washington, DC).
Other researchers discovered a similar pattern. One study found that the SIDS mortality rate was 7.3 times higher in the first three days following DPT vaccination compared with the 30-day-plus period (Am J Public Health, 1987; 77:945–51), a conclusion shared by another research team which estimated that the risk increased eightfold during the first three days following vaccination (Am JEpidemiol, 1992; 136: 121–35).


The immune system


Doctors reassure parents that their babies can withstand multiple vaccinations—but their advice is at odds with biology. Vaccination programmes tend to start at the age of two months when the DPT, polio and the 5-in-1 DTaP/IPV/Hib jab are administered, but this is also a critical point in the development of the immune system. Although specific immune functions are competent, many cellular activities are not fully operational, and the overall immune system is compromised at that age. Yet, this immature immune system is supposed to handle vaccines that have been grown in human fetal tissue, which introduces alien DNA into the body. The polio vaccine, administered to a two-month-old baby, is developed that way, as are 22 other vaccines. Helen Ratajczak, formerly a researcher with Boehringer Ingelheim Pharmaceuticals, discovered that the rubella component of the MMR jab and the chickenpox vaccine are both prepared with human DNA (J Immunotoxicol, 2011; 8: 68–79).


Overall, many millions of lines of vaccine have been developed from the lung cells of aborted human fetuses since 1961 in the US and 1966 in the UK— although this has never been revealed to parents when seeking their consent for vaccination. These living hosts are essential elements in the manufacture of antiviral vaccinations.

This throws up an ethical dilemma for pro-life parents, and it also presents a potential biological hazard. Swiss researchers at the University of Geneva discovered that RNA taken from frogs’ hearts could interlink with bacterial DNA in a process known as ‘transcession’, where information is exchanged between two genetic materials (World Medicine,1971; September 22, 69–72). Dr Maurice Stroun, who headed up the study, said: “Since we know that no bacteria got into the frog hearts, we can only conclude that the bacterial DNA must have been exuded from the bacteria and absorbed by the animal cells.” Other scientists have also observed such a process. In one study where a virus was passed through cell cultures 24 times, researchers noted regular insertions and deletions in the virus, suggesting that the virus exchanged genetic material with the tissues in which it was cultured (Virus Res, 1987; 7: 335–49).


These results were replicated at a research laboratory in Geneva, where researchers introduced human cells into bacterial DNA (Ann N Y Acad Sci, 2004; 1022: 195–201).


Scientists speculate that trancession is the cause of heart damage following rheumatic fever and bacterial infections. Dr Howard Urnovitz, of the University of Michigan, who has studied genetic mutations caused by vaccines, argues that our body has a ‘genetic memory’ of foreign substances it encounters, including vaccines.


However, there is a limit to the amount the body can handle before genetic damage occurs or progresses to chronic disease. That limit varies from person to person, depending on his or her unique immune capability.


Urnovitz’s theory would explain why over-vaccination could result in chronic disease or even death. As Dr Harold Buttram, a specialist in environmental medicine, has commented: “The implications of this work on transcession are enormous and reflect something that may be commonly taking place in human bodies. From the standpoint of future generations, the possibility that vaccines may be bringing about genetic hybridization in our children may represent far and away the greatest hazard of today’s childhood vaccine programmes.”


Factfile: Vaccines for the young


Infants in the UK are expected to have the following
vaccine schedule by the time they reach their first
birthday.
 At two months
 The 5-in-1 (DTaP/IPV/Hib), to protect against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), polio
and Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), first dose
 Pneumococcal infection, first dose
 At three months
 The 5-in-1, second dose
 Meningitis C, first dose
 At four months
 The 5-in-1, third dose
 Pneumococcal infection, second dose
 Meningitis C, second dose
 By 12–13 months
 Meningitis C, second dose
 Hib, fourth dose
 MMR (measles–mumps–rubella), given as a single jab
 Pneumococcal infection, third dose


-Source: National Health Service


Other problems


Buttram, Ratajczak and others believe that the early introduction of alien DNA via vaccination into an immature immune system could be responsible for a range of chronic childhood conditions.

American paediatrician Dr Kenneth Brock has coined the term the ‘four-A disorders’— autism, ADHD, asthma and allergies—to describe the major problems that together affect around a third of all children in the US (Bock K, Stauth C. Healing the New Childhood Epidemics. New York:Ballantine Books, 2007).


Sudden, and sharp, increases in all four childhood conditions happened around 20 years ago, and coincided with the introduction of the MMR II and chickenpox vaccines, which are both developed in human fetal tissue.


Between 1983 and 1990, when the take-up of the new MMR vaccine increased, the incidence of autism in the US spiked from four cases per 10,000 children to one case per 500 children. By 1988, two doses of MMR II were being given.


A similar pattern was seen in the UK where MMR II was used for the first time in 1988; in that year, autism rates jumped alarmingly to one per 64 children. Canada, Denmark and Japan reported similar phenomena. A second spike in autism levels happened in 1995 with the introduction of the new chickenpox vaccine, also developed in human fetal tissue (J Immunotoxicol, 2011; 8: 68–79).


Today, the autism rate in the US stands at one in every 100 children, and at one in 86 children in the UK.


Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) has increased by 400 per cent in the past 20 years, and affects around 3.5 million American children and 500,000 in the UK. Again, a similar pattern that coincides with the introduction of MMR II and the chickenpox vaccines can be traced. Over the same time period, asthma cases increased by 300 per cent and allergies by 400 per cent in children.


Factfile: The developing world


In the developing nations, the figures are far worse, as would be expected and, yet, the association between intensive vaccination programmes and high infant death rates persists.


Gambia and Mongolia have a 22-dose programme and infant mortality rates of 68.8 and 39.9 per 1000, respectively. However,many of these deaths could also be caused by contaminated water, malnutrition and poor hygiene.


These other possible causes of death were taken into account in one study in Guinea-Bissau in West Africa, which has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world. The study involved 15,351 children, born between 1990 and 1996, who were monitored by Dutch researchers during the recommended vaccination programme. The children were given the polio and BCG (tuberculosis) vaccinations at birth, the DTP vaccination at age six, 10 and 14 weeks, and the measles inoculation at nine months.


The researchers found that the BCG and measles vaccines had beneficial effects, and halved the mortality rate. However, the death rate increased 1.84 times among children given the DPT and polio vaccines (BMJ, 2000; 321: 1435–8).


A cover-up?


Although the alarming explosion of cases of the four-A disorders correlates with the introduction of vaccines processed in human fetal tissue, it does not provide definitive proof of a causal connection.


Neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock, who has studied the impact of vaccination on children’s neurological development, believes that researchers have never been encouraged to look for a link because no one even accepts the possibility. As the UK National Health Service emphatically advises parents on its NHS Choices website, “There is no evidence that having more than one vaccine at a time will adversely affect you or your child’s health. There is also no limit to the number of vaccines you can have in your life.” - (yeah right!!!)


On the very rare occasions that research has examined any possible reactions, the results may be massaged or lost. Dr Blaylock cites one occasion of a cover-up between vaccine manufacturers and health regulators when they were presented with evidence that the vaccines caused neurodevelopmental disorders and ADD
(attention-deficit disorder).


In 2000, a private meeting was held between 51 scientists— including representatives from vaccine manufacturers—and US government health officials to discuss the alarming findings of a vaccine safety study prepared by Dr Thomas Verstraeten.


The study analyzed the reactions in 110,000 children from four regions, or health maintenance organizations (HMOs), after vaccination. In particular, Verstraeten and his research team were monitoring the effects of thimerosal, an ethylmercury compound that was used as a preservative in vaccines until 2000.
Astonishingly, the ‘controls’ for the study were children who had been given lower doses of thimerosal rather than children who had not been exposed at all. The results were nonetheless worrying. ‘Misery and unhappiness disorder’—where babies cry uncontrollably and are fretful—was significantly higher in babies given a thimerosalcontaining vaccine at one month, and the disorder was worse in babies given the higher doses of
the mercury. There was also a “significant increased risk” of ADD and, by three months, there was a clear increased risk of neurodevelopmental disorders, including speech problems (Medical Veritas, 2008; 5: 1714–26).


Yet, when the study was finally published three years later, the reactions had all but disappeared and the effects were described as “insignificant” (Pediatrics, 2003; 112:1039–48). pfft. In those years, a fifth HMO—the Harvard Pilgrimage— was added to the study, but children receiving the highest dose of thimerosal were excluded and the study entry parameters were altered.


US Congressman Dave Weldon, who read the original study, told the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) of his concerns about the inclusion of the Harvard Pilgrimage group as it was in receivership, and its records were “a shambles”. Weldon wanted to release the original data to independent researcher Dr Mark Geier for reanalysis, but the CDC reported that the datasets had been “lost”. Verstraeten’s own provenance was also ambivalent; in the published study, he described himself as an employee of the CDC and, yet, at the time that he was preparing the study, he worked for GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturer of one of the vaccines being analyzed. In his commentary, Dr Blaylock cautions against blaming thimerosal—it is now used only in flu vaccines—and says that the real culprit is the intensive vaccine programme itself. “Too many vaccines are being given to children during the brain’s most rapid growth period,” he writes (Medical Veritas,2008; 5: 1714–26).


The path to hell


During the meeting with drug company representatives in 2000, the CDC’s head of vaccine safety, Dr Robert Chen, stated that “the issue is that it is impossible, unethical, to leave kids unimmunized, so you will never, ever resolve that issue [of vaccine safety].”
Indeed, this belief would propel a cover-up of any damage, or even deaths, that the vaccines might cause. These children would be collateral damage—the unfortunate victims of a programme that benefits the vast majority, or so our health regulators believe. But suppose that the intensive vaccine programme, and the way the vaccines are manufactured, combine to kill many thousands of infants around the world every year, and are also causing long term chronic health problems in up to a third of our children. Do the scales then shift and the harm begin to outweigh any benefits?
The path to hell may indeed be paved with good intentions.

Bryan Hubbard


There is more.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-27-2012, 02:45 PM
Cancer vaccine warning


By Jennifer Hough

Monday, August 30, 2010

MEET the Gardasil girls. They are from Florida and Wisconsin, Texas and Tennessee, New Mexico, New Zealand and Australia.

There’s Savanna from Ohio, Kahlia from New Zealand, and Kristyn from Washington State. They are just a handful of the girls whose pretty smiling faces peer back from the website Sanevax.org.

What binds them together? Suspected serious adverse reactions to cervical cancer vaccine Gardasil, and the fact that they were all perfectly healthy prior to receiving the vaccine.


Savanna was 12 when she got the vaccine. Since then her list of symptoms has included vision problems, twitching, numbness, memory loss, trouble concentrating, confusion, brain fog (can’t find the right words), trouble breathing, sleep paralysis (can’t move upon first waking) and hair loss.

Her mother spends almost every waking moment trying to warn people. Her mission is to make sure no one else has to watch their child go through the traumatic, life-changing events her daughter has experienced.

And there’s Kristyn Allen. On March 2009, the day after her 16th birthday, she received her second Gardasil injection. Shortly after, she started complaining about odd symptoms and eventually ended up in the emergency room. She was having severe pain in both legs, tingling sensations in both legs and one arm, and terrible weakness. Multiple blood tests and a CT scan could uncover no reason for the symptoms.

Her list of symptoms now includes back pain from her neck to her feet, terrible pressure in her head, involuntary muscle spasms, nausea, diarrhoea, weight loss, severe fatigue, chest pains, rib pain, rapid heart beat, dizziness, vision problems, difficulty breathing, brain fog and hair loss.

There’s also 17-year-old Kahlia, who says her family have suggested Gardasil as a cause for her illnesses to the doctors. "They will not say it is 100% the cause, because they cannot prove it. On the other hand, they can’t say it’s not 100% the cause, because they cannot prove that either."

Jessica Ericzon was one of the first recorded Gardasil-associated fatalities. Until receiving her third injection of HPV vaccine, Jessica was healthy, happy, active, never smoked or took drugs. On February 20, 2008, less than 48 hours after her last Gardasil shot, her parents found her dead on the bathroom floor. She was only 17. According to her coroner, the death was unexplainable.

Speaking to the Irish Examiner, Scottish political activist and Sanevax.org co-founder Freda Birrell said it was imperative people were aware of the risks, even if there were not being taken seriously by politicians and the drug company.

Birrell told the Irish Examiner that politicians here were "closing their ears" to the other side of the story in relation to the vaccine. Ms Birrell, who has written to Minister for Health Mary Harney, said if there are no serious adverse reactions associated with the vaccine’s use in Ireland, it will be the only country in which it has not happened.

In March, Birell, who is working for a formal investigation, along with five other campaigners, addressed the US Food and Drug Authority (FDA). During the teleconference with several FDA officials, the women presented documents, charts and discussed details of the cases they have collected from various countries in hopes of convincing the agency to take a tougher look at the Merck product.

However, the FDA remains satisfied these events are rare, coincidental and probably not related to HPV vaccines. It insists underlying conditions must have caused the reactions.

More worryingly, no one in this country seems to be aware of the possible side affects of Gardasil, and no one is warning parents of the possible dangers so they can make an informed decision on the issue.

For those who might be sceptical about the claims of the "Gardasil girls" and campaigners like Birrell, it is worth looking at an extraordinary turn of events in India this year.

In April, the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) ordered the nation’s Health Ministry immediately to suspend a cervical cancer vaccination programme after reports of four deaths and 120 complications in girls receiving Merck’s Gardasil. The move came after concerned NGOs and activists submitted a memo to the health minister claiming: "It is beyond doubt the worst case of human rights violation, where young healthy girls have to die for being part of a state-endorsed experiment, initiated by a profit-making private company."

All of those given the vaccine were from poverty-stricken regions. The girls complained of stomach disorders, epilepsy, headaches and early menstrual cycles. But, while administration of the vaccine has been suspended "as a precautionary measure", the ICMR insist the girls died of extraneous reasons, not due to the vaccine.

Dr Diane Harper, who carried out safety and effectiveness studies to get Gardasil approved, and has been a paid speaker and consultant to Merck, wrote about the incident in a Discovery Medicine article. "The most disquieting objection to the programme, voiced by over 70 civil society groups, public health organisations, medical professionals, human rights organisations, women’s groups and others, was the lack of information provided to the public so that each participant could be afforded the opportunity for informed decision making about their cervical cancer protection."

This desire for information is not limited to India. With the vaccine set to be rolled out fully in Irish schools next month, Dr Harper’s article, which reviews the current information on cervical cancer prevention, is surely a must read for the Department of Health, the HSE, parents and schools. There are very real concerns and taking the word of the drug company who made, tested and marketed the product is not good enough.

No one can prove why all these young girls are getting sick and worse dying, but they and their families, and sometimes their doctors, believe it could be because of the vaccine.

Birrell maintains the denial will go on because of the power big-pharmaceutical companies have.

"The simple truth is we don’t want there to be any Irish stories telling of more young girls being harmed by Gardasil," she said. "How many more deaths and how many more serious illnesses will they ignore before they ask for an investigation? These young lives are precious and should be protected, not ignored."

Ms Birrell says the women have requested a second meeting with the FDA, which she says, treats them "with respect". She maintains that along with the reported adverse reactions, there must be a raft which are going un-reported. "As we told the FDA, it is not normal for young healthy teenagers to get sick or just drop dead. If there are no serious adverse reactions associated with the vaccine in Ireland, it will be the only country without any side effects."

Indeed, it is estimated VAERS reports only make up a small percentage of actual bad reactions.

Here a HIQA report, much misquoted as it has been, clearly states: "Vaccination against HPV infection does not get rid of the need for routine cervical cancer screening, as the vaccines only target the two HPV types that cause seven out of ten cases of cervical cancer.

"Also, the vaccines may not be 100% effective, their long-term efficacy has not yet been established in clinical trials longer than five years, and the vaccines are not effective in women already infected with those specific types of HPV."

According to Dr Harper, 11 to 12 year olds are not promised protection until they leave the age range for highest acquisition of high risk HPV infections, which is 36. So, even if there was a chance it would last 15 years – which is highly unlikely – girls vaccinated at 12 still would not be fully protected. As things stand, there is no evidence showing it remains effective beyond five years.

"This makes Gardasil very expensive with very limited, if any, clinical benefit," Dr Harper said.

Indeed, such is the mis-information around the marketing of these vaccines (there is another Cervarix which Britain opted for) there are fears women will believe they are fully protected from cervical cancer by getting it, and so will not continue with essential screenings.

Officially, Gardasil is deemed to be safe by all the regulatory bodies. The current post-marketing commitment between Merck and the FDA is to recognise a rate of serious adverse events that exceed two in 10,000 women in a cohort of 44,000 women who have received all three doses of Gardasil. This means any serious reactions which do not satisfy this clause will not be acted upon – even if they are as severe as death.

In her yet unpublished survey assessing all published research relating to the safety of the vaccine, Dr Harper stresses that independent scientists and clinicians reports of bad reactions are a valid source of information, and are of great value for safety issues.

What the end result of what Dr Harper calls a "public health experiment" will be no one knows. But one thing is clear, the HPV vaccine is unnecessary as it does not prevent cervical cancer.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/cancer-vaccine-warning-129227.html

Scimi
Reply

جوري
06-27-2012, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Sis Bluebell. I only pasted excerpts that were relevant... but you know I also posted links, and the info within is "leaked" from the BIG PHARMA's... and VALID.

I ask you to take a look at the reports and then comment. Or choose to stay oblivious to that which is a bane in the industry you are involved in.

Scimi

EDIT: for the sake of keeping it on topic, a short excerpt from the (kinda dark) history of vaccinations:
:sl: akhi,
"Big Pharma' isn't going to leak something and withhold it from the Medical community.
When I say I need research & scientific articles from an esteemed journal I mean something that comes looking like this:



with tables of statistics like this so I can sort through the data:


and articles that look like this:


I don't take my information on something this serious and this personal from various quotes posted on the web. It took me personally a very long time to actually understand how to read and interpret data. Statistics & Epidemiology wasn't my strong suit but had to learn it because if ever a person needs to understand how to toss or keep research data, THE NUMBERS NOT THE WORDS ARE WHAT MATTER...

:w:
Reply

Scimitar
06-27-2012, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
The study analyzed the reactions in 110,000 children from four regions, or health maintenance organizations (HMOs), after vaccination. In particular, Verstraeten and his research team were monitoring the effects of thimerosal, an ethylmercury compound that was used as a preservative in vaccines until 2000.
Astonishingly, the ‘controls’ for the study were children who had been given lower doses of thimerosal rather than children who had not been exposed at all. The results were nonetheless worrying. ‘Misery and unhappiness disorder’—where babies cry uncontrollably and are fretful—was significantly higher in babies given a thimerosalcontaining vaccine at one month, and the disorder was worse in babies given the higher doses of
the mercury. There was also a “significant increased risk” of ADD and, by three months, there was a clear increased risk of neurodevelopmental disorders, including speech problems (Medical Veritas, 2008; 5: 1714–26).
If you have any idea what sort of concoctions that they put in those vaccines, you will feel like throwing up. But anyhow, as for mercury laced thimerosal that they put in those vaccines as preservatives, there is no such thing as low exposure measure for mercury.

To not finding the real facts of vaccines, then the deaths of millions upon millions in Africa from the AIDS alone is not enough evidence to see their genocidal agenda? THen what does it take to see for what it really is. That's a great travesty against humankind.

Let's take a peek at the common 'INGREDIENTS' of vaccines and see whether they whet your appetite:

ammonium sulfate
amphotecirin B
animal tissues (eg: monkey kidney, chick embryo, eggs)
calf (bovine serum)
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde
gelatin
glycerol
human diploid cells (from aborted human fetal tissue)
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
phenoxethanol (antifreeze)
VERO cells (continous lines of monkey kidney cells)
thimerosal (mercury)
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolsate of casein
washed sheep red blood cells

all of the above is nasty stuff.

To think that western medicine has gotten to the stage where Pig hearts and Monkey cells are used to "fix" humans... just think:

Bukhari 7.494B:
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:
that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allahwill destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, andHe will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."


Abu Dawud, Book 32, Number 4028:
Narrated Abu Amir or Abu Malik:
AbdurRahman ibn Ghanam al-Ash'ari said: Abu Amir or Abu Malik told me--I swear by Allah another oath that he did not believe me that he heard the Apostle of Allah say: There will be among my community people who will make lawful (the use of) khazz and silk. Some of them will be transformed into apes and swine.


Scimi
Reply

جوري
06-27-2012, 03:08 PM
There's something wrong with the forum again, I can't see the last page.. so I don't if you can see this or if it is loading for you:

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...ml#post1528516
Reply

Scimitar
06-27-2012, 03:52 PM
Yes I can see it, the last post on that page is yours. Sis, I posted articles from Doctors who know their stuff. Not being a Doctor myself, you cannot ask me to give you the specific data you request. However, you can deduce that the Doctors who wrote the articles I posted - did not come to their conclusions willy nilly, but thru a sound process, one which you yourself are willing to do...

...You don't have to accept what I have posted, all I'm saying is that there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the pharma industry is a joke where they laugh longest and hardest, while babies cry til they sometimes die.

Scimi
Reply

Na'imah
06-27-2012, 03:54 PM
A list of vaccines and their ingredients:

(www)(dot)cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

A list of TOXIC substances:

toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/text_version/chemicals.php?id=1

How many of the TOXIC substances do you find in the list of vaccine ingredients? Why would anyone knowingly inject even one of these into themselves or into their children...especially a newborn infant who weighs less than 10 lbs?

Toxins are cumulative...they build up over time and are very difficult if not impossible to remove. I'd rather take my chances with these "killer" diseases.

Also, some of the more "benign" ingredients can be and probably are derived from GMOs: citric acid; dextrose; sucrose; fructose; vitamins; gelatin (from GMO grain-fed animals - possibly derived from pork?); albumin/egg protein (from eggs - GMO grain-fed chickens?); etc,. etc.

EEK! Look at the vaccine for Zoster (Shingles - Zostavax) - "hydrolyzed porcine gelatin" Porcine = PIG/PORK!

Human diploid cells...from ABORTED fetuses? Really? Do you really want this in your body? Abortion, last I knew, was haraam. Do you want to support this horrible atrocity by allowing this sick disgusting thing into your body or the bodies of your children/loved ones?

No thanks! Not I!
Reply

Scimitar
06-27-2012, 04:16 PM
The floowing is from the Britist medical Journal Website:

Scandals - Does rubella vaccination prevent congenital rubella syndrome?


Vaccination is known to result in a subclinical or mild case of the disease for which one is being vaccinated against.
Rubella (German measles) is a disease for which there is a widely used vaccine. (It is generally administered via the MMR vaccine.) It is, in itself, a mild, often evensubclinical disease. The reason it is recommended/mandated is to protect the developing fetus, which if it is exposed to the virus during a critical period while still in the womb, can develop a serious condition called congenital rubella syndrome.

There is evidence that the rubella vaccinated, including pregnant women, are getting subclinical cases of rubella, just as is the rest of the population. What does vaccination accomplish if all it does is result in a subclinical case of an already mild or subclinical disease? Moreover, what does vaccination accomplish if previously vaccinated pregnant women not only can get subclinical cases of rubella, but that such a cases can result in congenital rubella syndrome (CRS)?

Unfortunately rubella vaccine immunity also appears to wane over time. On the other hand, natural immunity to rubella is thought to generally be lifelong.
Would it not be better to expose children, particularly non-immune teenage girls, to rubella in order to increase the likelihood that one would be immune during pregnancy, rather than to risk the possibility of getting rubella while pregnant? As Dr. Hugh Paul stated in "The Control of Diseases", which was written in 1964, before formulation of the rubella vaccine, "The disease (rubella) cannot be prevented, and in view of its very mild character, and the possibility that it may have catastrophic effects if contracted by an expectant mother, it is questionable if it should be prevented in childhood and adolescence even if this were possible. It has been suggested that female children should be deliberately exposed to infection in order to achieve a life-long immunity from the disease and possibly from malformation in the offspring in later life. This idea is not an unreasonable one... Rubella does not kill, and even complications are uncommon."

And if rubella during pregnancy is often subclinical among the vaccinated, how diligent are we being in evaluating newborns for congenital rubella syndrome sinceserological testing is necessary to confirm CRS and often even rubella itself?

There are a number of symptoms associated with the condition. Two of the possible symptoms are "developmental delay" and hearing loss, both of which might not be noticed immediately. Are we assuming something isn't congenital rubella syndrome simply because the mother was vaccinated? Are we testing every infant or child who shows "developmental delay" or hearing loss for CRS?

The textbook "Vaccines" lists a group of "prominent clinical findings in congenital rubella syndrome". Among them are autism and diabetes. Are we testing every infant and child with autism or diabetes for CRS?
Some of these conditions, including autism and diabetes, are even thought to be on the rise. The question was just raised whether we might be assuming conditions cannot be related to pregnancy-acquired rubella merely because of widespread rubella vaccination. Are we even doing this with conditions thought to be increasing?

Could these increases possibly even have something to do with rubella vaccine causing more women of child-bearing age to be vulnerable to the disease, now that they no longer achieve natural immunity during childhood?

Are we conducting laboratory testing of every infant or child who shows one or more of the numerous symptoms associated with CRS? If not, isn't it possible that we have been overestimating rubella vaccine's success in eliminating congenital rubella syndrome? Of even more concern, might rubella vaccine be at least partly responsible for the rising incidence of some CRS-associated conditions?

Sandy Mintz

Source: http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/29/does-rubella-vaccination-prevent-congenital-rubella-syndrome


...gotta admit, there is loads more - from irrefutable sources.

Scimi
Reply

Na'imah
06-27-2012, 04:17 PM
Here's something on artificial food dyes (found in some vaccines):

(www)(dot)journal.com.ph/index.php/lifestyle/health-a-wellness/22249-dangers-of-eating-food-dyes

Again, why would you want to inject/ingest these known carcinogens/poisons into yourself or your loved ones? And why is an artificial dye even necessary for a vaccine? Who cares if it's "pretty" or not? Lolz!
Reply

Na'imah
06-27-2012, 04:28 PM
The Hippocratic Oath:

nktiuro.tripod.com/hippocra.htm

"I SWEAR in the presence of the Almighty and before my family, my teachers and my peers that according to my ability and judgment I will keep this Oath and Stipulation.

TO RECKON all who have taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents and in the same spirit and dedication to impart a knowledge of the art of medicine to others. I will continue with diligence to keep abreast of advances in medicine. I will treat without exception all who seek my ministrations, so long as the treatment of others is not compromised thereby, and I will seek the counsel of particularly skilled physicians where indicated for the benefit of my patient.
I WILL FOLLOW that method of treatment which according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patient and abstain from whatever is harmful or mischievous. I will neither prescribe nor administer a lethal dose of medicine to any patient even if asked nor counsel any such thing nor perform the utmost respect for every human life from fertilization to natural death and reject abortion that deliberately takes a unique human life.

WITH PURITY, HOLINESS AND BENEFICENCE I will pass my life and practice my art. Except for the prudent correction of an imminent danger, I will neither treat any patient nor carry out any research on any human being without the valid informed consent of the subject or the appropriate legal protector thereof, understanding that research must have as its purpose the furtherance of the health of that individual. Into whatever patient setting I enter, I will go for the benefit of the sick and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief or corruption and further from the seduction of any patient.
WHATEVER IN CONNECTION with my professional practice or not in connection with it I may see or hear in the lives of my patients which ought not be spoken abroad, I will not divulge, reckoning that all such should be kept secret.
WHILE I CONTINUE to keep this Oath unviolated may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art and science of medicine with the blessing of the Almighty and respected by my peers and society, but should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse by my lot."
Reply

Snowflake
06-27-2012, 05:13 PM
Posted by Scimi:
Let's take a peek at the common 'INGREDIENTS' of vaccines and see whether they whet your appetite:

ammonium sulfate
amphotecirin B
animal tissues (eg: monkey kidney, chick embryo, eggs)
calf (bovine serum)
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde
gelatin
glycerol
human diploid cells (from aborted human fetal tissue)
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
phenoxethanol (antifreeze)
VERO cells (continous lines of monkey kidney cells)
thimerosal (mercury)
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolsate of casein
washed sheep red blood cells
^+o(


To those who are pro vaccine: What you're saying is akin to telling parents whose children have been harmed by vaccines that they are brainless individuals who can't tell the difference between when their child was well to when he/she became ill after receiving the shots. Allah has given parents a natural instinct to protect their offspring from harm and to know when something is not right, even before any doctor confirms it. Science can't even begin to touch on this God given ability, and anthropologists claim that humans have no instincts. Subhan Allah. My message to the skeptics is to close your eyes to big pharma's deception if you will, but please don't insult those whose lives have been damaged by harmful immunizations.

Everybody else, thank you so much for your amazing contribution and efforts in bringing tons of evidence to prove the harm of vaccines - most of which I'd never encountered before. The good news is that a growing number of doctors have started speaking about the dangers of vaccines.





Gardasil (HPV Vaccine): Fraud in Plain Sight – Dr. Whitaker MD

Posted on March 23, 2012 by The Refusers
By Dr. JULIAN WHITAKER, MD

Of all the dangerous nonsense perpetuated by Big Pharma and its savage attack dogs in federal and state government, the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine is surely the most fraudulent and wasteful.

I’ve spoken out against this debacle since Gardasil, Merck’s HPV vaccine, was approved back in 2006. Now it’s in the news again, ever since Michele Bachmann dusted up Texas governor Rick Perry during a presidential candidate debate for issuing an executive order to require vaccination of all 11- and 12-year-old girls in Texas. (This was later revoked by the Texas state legislature.) Mike Toomey, Perry’s former chief of staff, was a lobbyist
for Merck at that time. If that isn’t quid pro quo, I don’t know what is. Nevertheless, all females as young as age 9 through age 26 are being urged to get this vaccine—with or without parental consent or knowledge in some states. They’re even recommending it for preadolescent boys and young men! The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and the most repugnant odors are the clear lack of scientific validity, astronomical costs, and, most of all, the horrific harm inflicted on our children.



Lack of Scientific Validation
The purpose of Gardasil and Cervarix (GlaxoSmithKline’s HPV vaccine), according to the fuzzy logic of Big Pharma, is to prevent cervical cancer. Regardless of what the drug companies, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), or your child’s physician says, not only is there no firm scientific data to support that widespread contention, but the whole concept is irrational. The vaccine has been shown to prevent precancerous changes of the cervix, but to assume that these changes will progress to cancer is dishonest and manipulative. Ninety percent of HPV infections clear up spontaneously.


USPSTF Agrees
Recognizing this, in October the US Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) issued new guidelines recommending that women be tested for cervical cancer with Pap tests (not HPV tests) every three years rather than annually because more frequent testing leads to overtreatment of low-grade changes that would in all likelihood not turn out to be cancerous.
The Task Force further bolstered the stupidity of vaccinating young girls when they changed the screening guidelines to include only women ages 21 through 65, noting that cervical cancer is exceptionally rare in women under age 21. In any case, cervical cancer is very slow growing, so we won’t know whether mass vaccination reduces death rates for 20–30 years! It’s all presumption, a huge lottery in which there may well be no winners—other than the drug companies.



Skewed Statistics
Even more ****ing are the infection statistics. The vaccine camp underscores the need for mass inoculation by trotting out government statistics showing that more than a quarter of American females ages 14–59 and nearly 45 percent of those ages 20–24 have been infected with HPV.
However, they fail to mention that there are 40 sexually transmitted HPV strains, and those targeted by Gardasil (types 6, 11, 16, and 18) and Cervarix (types 16 and 18) are rare. HPV types 6 and 11, which can cause genital warts, were detected in 1.3 and 0.1 percent of women, respectively, and types 16 and 18, which are linked with some cases of cervical cancer, were present in only 1.5 and 0.8 percent! Bottom line: very, very few women who have HPV are infected with high-risk strains, and far fewer get cervical cancer. Every year in the United States, about 12,000 women are diagnosed with this cancer, and 4,000 die of it. Of course, any premature death is a tragedy, but we cannot lose sight of the fact that, according to the latest statistics from the National Cancer Institute, only 0.68 percent of women will ever be diagnosed with, let alone die of, cervical cancer.



Number Needed to Treat
To further underscore the absurdity of universal HPV vaccination, let’s look at the concept of “number needed to treat,” or NNT, an extremely useful statistic for evaluating any medical treatment. Simply stated, NNT tells us how many people need to be treated with a given therapy to get the desired benefit in one patient. The lower the NNT, the more effective and predictable the treatment. For example, peptic ulcers are primarily caused by Helicobacter pylori bacteria, and antibiotics that eradicate it are an extremely effective therapy. For every 11 patients with H. pylori who are treated with antibiotics, 10 are cured of their peptic ulcer. Therefore, the NNT is 1.1 (11 divided by 10). Another example is statin drugs, which are prescribed to millions of people to lower cholesterol. According to a recent study, in order for statin drugs to prevent one heart attack, stroke, or cardiovascular death (the desired outcome of cholesterol-lowering), they would have to be taken by 1,000 patients, making statins’ NNT 1,000 (1,000 divided by 1). The other 999 people per 1,000 who take these drugs and are subjected to their adverse effects get no benefit at all.



Unacceptable, Sky-High NNT
So what is the NNT of the HPV vaccine in terms of preventing cervical cancer deaths? Even if it completely wiped out cervical cancer—which no one expects it to do—thousands would have to be vaccinated in order to prevent one death. The others would obtain no benefits, yet would be needlessly exposed to the inherent risks of this vaccine. Most statisticians agree that an NNT over 40 is no more than a crap shoot. An NNT in the thousands is an unmitigated fraud, and there’s no evidence that the vaccine will save even one life!
We already have a system in place for preventing cervical cancer that works very well: regular Pap tests (every three years for women ages 21–65). Even the most vocal vaccine proponents admit the vaccine doesn’t eliminate the need for Pap testing—or that most cervical cancer deaths occur in women who haven’t been screened in the past five years. This system has reduced the incidence of cervical cancer from 15 in 100,000 women in 1975 to 6.6 per 100,000 in 2008. Why fix something that isn’t broken? The answer is obvious: Follow the money.


Astronomical Costs
In the United States, there are roughly 30 million females between the ages of 9 and 26 who are “eligible” for HPV vaccination, which requires three doses spread out over six months at a retail price of $130 each ($390 total). That’s nearly $12 billion right into the pockets of Big Pharma.
Now, let’s add in physicians’ fees and average the cost for the three-dose course at $500. (Some doctors will charge more, some less.) So $500 x 30 million patients = $15 billion. Imagine spending $15 billion on a vaccination program with no hard evidence that any lives will be saved! Let’s take it a step further and assume this lavish blanket of presumed protection actually works and cervical cancer is eliminated. (Nevermind that a miniscule percentage of HPV-infected women ever develop cervical cancer, that 30 percent of women with cervical cancer have not been infected with HPV, and that we won’t even know if the darned thing works for decades.) Guess how much it would cost per life saved in this best-case scenario? $7.5 million! If we took that $15 billion and put it towards food subsidies and other proven health interventions, we could save tens of millions of lives. But, incredibly, the powers that be prefer to waste it on a fraudulent vaccination program that funnels the money into the coffers of Big Pharma!


Now They’re Going After Boys
As if 30 million girls and young women weren’t enough, Merck tried to get Gardasil approved for women up to age 45, but even the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recognized this absurdity for what it was. However, Big Pharma also has males in their sights, arguing that they too must be vaccinated to prevent the spread of HPV to their sexual partners.
If vaccinating females makes no sense, going after males is a crime against humanity. HPV is almost always an inconsequential infection in males, so the NNT for them is infinity! No male gets any benefit at all. Unfortunately, they are not immune to the adverse effects of the vaccine. In fact, they are likely at greater risk of damage—at least that’s what we’ve learned from the standard childhood vaccinations, which negatively affect two to three times more boys than girls. As for costs, don’t get me started. We would spend another $15 billion vaccinating all males in the target age range—with zero benefits to them and absolutely no assurance or evidence that this “experiment” would ultimately reduce the rate of cervical cancer in women. There’s only one given: Any amount of money spent on such an ill-advised campaign would be 100 percent waste to the public, yet hugely profitable for Big Pharma.


Horrific Damage to “Gardasil Girls” :heated:
I predict that the entire HPV vaccine folly will not only be a colossal failure in terms of health benefits, but it will also leave an expanding wake of “Gardasil girls” suffering with seizures, strokes, chronic headaches, and worse. One of these girls is Zeda Pingel, whose mother Amy Pingel chronicles her daughter’s destruction in the excellent, must-read book Vaccine Epidemic: How Corporate Greed, Biased Science, and Coercive Government
Threaten Our Human Rights, Our Health, and Our Children.
In 2008, 13-year-old Zeda was a happy, healthy straight-A student and cheerleader with a bright future when, during a routine well-child checkup, her pediatrician suggested she have the Gardasil vaccine. Although neither Amy nor Zeda knew much about it, they went along with the doctor’s recommendation. The problems started a week later, and within three weeks, Amy reports, “I began to lose my precious daughter. Zeda stopped talking, stopped eating, stopped walking, and…lost control of her bladder.”



Doctors in Denial
Despite spending months in a top-notch children’s hospital specializing in neurological problems and undergoing hundreds of tests, Zeda’s doctors couldn’t find a single explanation for her rapid deterioration. Given that it started after Zeda was vaccinated, Amy thought it could be related to Gardasil, yet every time she brought it up, the medical team aggressively denied that it could have been involved.

Their denial borders on the diabolical. For weeks, the doctors and nurses accused Zeda of faking her symptoms, even though she was having frequent grand mal seizures. Even worse, they suspected her mother was coaching her to keep up the pretense and went so far as to install 24-hour surveillance cameras in hopes of “proving” that the mother and daughter were involved in a hoax. Today, Zeda is fed through a gastric tube, breathes through a tracheotomy, and lives in a vegetative state in the living room of her mother’s home. Her tragedy is not an isolated incident. Tens of thousands of adverse reactions to the HPV vaccine have been documented—including over 100 deaths.


Bypassing Parental Consent
One of the most disgusting aspects of this entire charade is the lengths to which they’re going in order to force this vaccination program down our throats. Several state governments have enacted laws that require schools to hand out information on the vaccine to sixth graders and their parents and insurance companies to provide reimbursement.
For example, the state of New Jersey delivered HPV vaccine propaganda to parents via their children’s backpacks. And, here in California, Governor Jerry Brown recently signed legislation that enables children as young as 12 to be vaccinated against HPV and hepatitis B without a parent’sknowledge or consent. Imagine, parents have to sign waivers for their children to go on a school picnic, but 12-year-olds, without parental knowledge or consent, can have toxic substances injected into their growing bodies. This combination of Big Pharma plus government is, in a single word, evil. There is no other way to describe it.


Parents, It’s Up to You
Unfortunately, you can’t count on your doctor to help you make educated decisions on the HPV vaccine. Virtually all pediatricians follow the dictates of the American Academy of Pediatrics, CDC, and other handmaidens of Big Pharma and vigorously support every vaccination program that comes down the pike. Their refusal to rock the boat by acknowledging the growing body of evidence about the dark side of vaccines is safe for the doctor but terribly dangerous for your child. (Just imagine what it would be like if you were Zeda’s mother, Amy Pingel.)
Parents, it’s up to you to protect your children. Keep the lines of communication open and make sure your kids understand the extreme risks and no proven benefits of the HPV vaccine. As Amy Pingel says, “…people who pressure you to vaccinate don’t own the consequences. Only you, as parents, do.”

In Summary
Folks, it’s going to get worse before it gets better. In addition to blowing the cervical cancer angle way out of proportion, vaccine proponents are now fabricating additional “benefits” in order to sell their wares. When a recent small study demonstrated a potential, preliminary link between HPV infection and risk of heart attack and stroke, headlines across the country screamed that the vaccine protects against cardiovascular disease! Now, that’s a stretch if there ever was one.
It may take many years and, unfortunately, countless injuries and untold numbers of deaths, but we’re not as naïve or stupid as Big Pharma takes us to be. Mark my words. The public will eventually wake up and see the HPV vaccine for what it is—a dangerous, money-grabbing, scientifically invalid fraud.


References
Dunne EF, et al. Prevalence of HPV infection among females in the
United States. JAMA. 2007 Feb 28;297(8):813–819.
Gostin LO. Mandatory HPV vaccination and political debate. JAMA.
2011 Oct 19;306(15):1699–1700. Epub 2011 Oct 6.
Habakus LK, and Holland M. Vaccine Epidemic. Skyhorse Publishing.
New York, NY. 2011.
Kuo HK, Fujise K. Human papillomavirus and cardiovascular
disease among U.S. women in the National Health and Nutrition
Examination Survey, 2003 to 2006. Am Coll Cardiol. 2011 Nov 1;58
(19):2001–2006.
National Cancer Institute. Human Papillomavirus (HPV) vaccines.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...et/prevention/
HPV-vaccine.



http://therefusers.com/refusers-news...h-and-healing/
Reply

Snowflake
06-27-2012, 05:20 PM
27 Dirty Little Vaccine Secrets Every Parent Needs to Know About

1. Whether Gardasil prevents cancer

Gardasil is promoted as a vaccine which prevents cancer. Here is what immunologist Charlotte Haug M.D. Ph.D writes in her article in New Scientist (1)

Despite claims that the vaccine will cut cancer deaths by two-thirds or more, its overall effectiveness in the prevention of cervical cancer remains unknown and will not be known for decades.”

2. Necessity for boosters
Information regarding the possible necessity and intervals for booster doses is unknown.




3. Whether Gardasil increases the risk of cancer.
The vaccine has not been evaluated for the potential to cause carcinogenicity(2). Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!
There may be increased risk of cancer due to replacement of some virus strains with new strains which may be more carcinogenic.
“If HPV-16 and HPV-18 are effectively suppressed, will there be selective pressure on the remaining strains of HPV? Other strains may emerge as significant oncogenic serotypes” (3)
Rosemary Mathis, director of SaneVax asks:” Gardasil and Cervarix: Are strains targeted by the vaccines replaced by other HPV viruses?”(4)



4. Whether there is increased risk of cancer due to the unexpected discovery of aluminium bound recombinant HPV DNA
Dr. Sin Hang Lee, a pathologist at the Milford Hospital pathology laboratory was contracted by SaneVax to examine Gardasil for possible contamination. The samples tested positive for recombinant viral HPV-11 and viral HPV-18 residues, both of which were firmly attached to the aluminum adjuvant (5)
It is unknown whether the recombinant (genetically engineered) HPV DNA is capable of altering human DNA potentially initiating cancer (5)

5. Whether there is increased risk of autoimmune disorders due to the recombinant HPV DNA
It is unknown whether the genetically engineered HPV DNA, or adventitious DNA, is capable of altering human DNA potentially initiating a host of autoimmune disorders (5)

6. If HPV is necessarily an infection transmitted by sexual intercourse
Merck states that HPV is sexually transmitted. However, they surely are aware that HPV infection has been found in placentas, umbilical cord blood and in infants, so it is not necessarily an infection which is transmitted by sexual intercourse (6)
A May 2006 FDA VRBPAC document stated girls previously exposed to vaccine-relevant human papillomavirus and get inoculated with Gardasil have a 44.6% increase in getting cervical cancer in their life time” (31)
Dr.Jim Howenstine, M.D:“HPV vaccine increases the risk of developing a precancerous cervical lesion by 44.6% in women .previously infected with a HPV viral type found in the vaccine”(7)
An unknown but extremely large number of girls across the world who are already exposed to HPV are being pressured into taking the vaccine with the consequential risk of cervical cancer being increased by 44.6% (32).. Not only is this unethical and cynical, it is downright criminal.

7. Whether Gardasil causes genotoxicity
According to product information this has not been evaluated (2)



8. Whether the vaccine targets the relevant virus strains in different demographicsA May 2008 study on high-risk and multiple human papillomavirus (HPV) infections in cancer-free Jamaican women presented at the Second Annual International African-Caribbean Cancer Consortium Conference cited:
“The most important finding was that unlike the genotype distribution patterns seen in North America, Europe and some parts of Asia, HPV types 16 and 18 were not the most common high-risk genotype”(8) “Why is Gardasil marketed globally through the Gardasil Access Program when HPV 16 & 18 may not even be prevalent amongst the targeted populations?”
“HPV genotype distribution in this group of Jamaican women differs from the patterns found in Europe, North America and some parts of Asia. It may be necessary therefore to consider development of other vaccines which target genotypes found in our and similar populations. HPV genotyping as well as Pap smears should be considered”(28)



9. Whether the strains change in the course of time
Rosemary Mathis, SaneVax, writes “A graph clearly shows that HPV 16 & 18 are not even prevalent in Colombian women until their mid-20s – long after vaccine efficacy has worn off if a girl is administered Gardasil or Cervarix in her adolescent years”(8)



10. Adverse events due to concomitant administration with other vaccines
There are very few studies regarding relevant concomitant administration (2)



11. The true numbers and extent of serious adverse events
National Vaccine Information Center: “It is estimated that only between 1 and 10 percent of all adverse health outcomes which occur following vaccination are reported to VAERS” (9)(26)(32)
Dr. Russell Blaylock also discussed the low rate of reports of vaccine problems, being somewhere in the range of 2%, due to the passive and voluntary nature of the system. According to Blaylock’s estimate, it is likely that there are more than 600 deaths and over 100,000 serious adverse events from this vaccine (10)
SaneVax regularly publishes updates from VAERS reports regarding adverse events and deaths (11)
A fact of which Merck is well aware:
Merck has not disclosed to the public that during the trials 73.3% of the participants who received Gardasil acquired a new medical condition”(32)

12. Long term serious side effects
Jagannath Chatterjee:“Vaccine long term effects may span the lifetime particularly as the inflammatory process set in motion does not stop. Many of the vaccine ingredients lodge themselves permanently in the tissues, fat cells and the brain and continue to inflict a steady and progressive damage permanently. Attenuated live viruses introduced by vaccines may stay dormant for long periods, often mutate, and can become virulent when the immune system becomes weak due to any reason. As vaccines adversely affect the immune system viruses and bacteria present in humans that were not virulent earlier are today causing diseases”.

13. What the results would be if a true placebo had been used in all the clinical trials
The FDA allowed Merck to use a potentially reactive aluminum containing placebo as a control for most trial participants, rather than a non-reactive saline solution placebo. A reactive placebo can artificially increase the appearance of safety of an experimental drug or vaccine in a clinical trial” (12)(29)


14. What the results of clinical trials would be if Merck had not used their own exclusion criteria
The vaccine has been tested on handpicked groups (2, 13). These are not representative of the groups who have been, or will be vaccinated. Exclusion criteria:
1) Allergies to any component of the vaccine
2) History of a severe allergic reaction
3) Known history of any allergies to food or medicine
4) Immunocompromised, Immunodeficient or has an autoimmune condition
5) History of any condition, therapy, lab abnormality or other circumstance such that it is not in the best interest of the participant to participate
6) Clinically significant disease or clinically significant findings during the screening medical history or physical examination that, in the investigator’s opinion, would compromise the outcome of this study.
7) Have a weakened immune system or other immune problems
”If these “exclusion criteria” were known by, and applied to families in the United States of America, prior to the vaccination of their child, virtually none of the 22,000 girls and boys listed by the CDC’s VAERS reporting system as being injured by the Gardasil HPV vaccine, would have been allowed to be vaccinated, and 100 deceased HPV vaccinated children, would still be alive today”(13)
Summary: With the way the clinical trials are conducted as to which people they allow to participate the average population that the HPV vaccines are being administered to are omitted. Consequently, because of this practice it is now unknown how many have the potential to be at risk of having an adverse event.
15. Whether there is increased risk of blood clots when Gardasil is combined with hormonal contraceptive pills
Studies regarding the combination of Gardasil and contraceptive pills have focused on potential impairment of immune response (2), but not on the issue of increased risk of blood clots.
CDC states: “There have been some reports of blood clots in females after receiving Gardasil. These clots have occurred in the heart, lungs, and legs. Most of these people had a risk of getting blood clots, such as taking oral contraceptives (the birth control pill), smoking, obesity, and other risk factors” (14)
The reported cases of blood clots after Gardasil in VAERS may be blamed on other factors when the actual cause may in fact be due to the vaccine.
16. Whether thereis an increased risk of brain damage
The ingredient polysorbate renders the blood-brain barrier more porous and possibly facilitates passage of neurotoxic aluminium, sodium borate and other toxic substances through the blood-brain barrier into the brain tissue (15)

Many girls who suffer from injuries after Gardasil exhibit symptoms of brain damage (16)
There have been few if any autopsies which include thorough investigation of brain tissue of girls who have died after Gardasil.

17. Consequences of “bridging”, the extrapolation of study results from one group to another
In her article in the American Chronicle Christina England writes: “Gardasil has never been tested in young girls under fifteen years old, says whistleblower Diane Harper” (17). The vaccine has been advised for different age groups, also for boys, although it is not known whether similar results may be extrapolated to the different groups.
There is generally a lack of knowledge regarding the effects of vaccines in connection with hormonal changes in the body (for example puberty, menstrual cycles, pregnancy and menopause).



18. Consequences if the vaccine is not thoroughly shaken
Instructions for administration include thorough agitation (2) No studies can be found regarding the consequences if this instruction is not followed although this is a realistic situation in practice.



19. Whether the vaccine will increase the risk of infertility due to polysorbate.
Polysorbate has been shown to cause infertility in lab rats (18),(19)



20. Whether polysorbate is carcinogenic
Jeffrey J. Aufderheide in his article “Vaccine Ingredients: Non-Ionic Surfactants” asks: Could Tween 80 (polysorbate 80), being a carcinogen or co-carcinogen, also be one of the reasons vaccines are not tested for causing cancer?” (20)

21. Health consequences due to the presence of polysorbate and l-histidine
Cynthia A. Janak has written about this in her article “Polysorbate 80 and Histidine, a Marriage of Disaster” (21)



22. Whether aluminium adjuvant is safe
In her article “Aluminium in Vaccines. Where are the safety studies?” (22) Catherine Frompevich writes:
Since the 1930s vaccine makers have been using aluminum as an adjuvant in vaccines. However, from what I’ve been able to gather over years of researching vaccines and vaccinations, there doesn’t seem to be studies determining aluminum safety issues”.
“- although aluminum adjuvants have been used in vaccines for decades, they were never tested for safety in clinical trials”(30)
In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences”.
Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminium adjuvants,medical science’s understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor” (23)(31)

23. Consequences due to the presence sodium borate (borax)
Sodium borate is used as a food additive in some countries, but it is now banned in many places. For example, one Australian government recall site notes: “Product is Borax (sodium borate) which is a non permitted food additive and is harmful to health. So, if it’s harmful to health, why is it being added to the HPV vaccine?”(24)

24. Whether the vaccine will increase the risk of miscarriages, stillbirths or babies born with anomalies
“There are however no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women”(2)

Gardasil has been included in the childrens’ vaccination program in Norway for 12 year old girls.
Norway has been chosen for studies because there are several well organised obligatory population registers including ones for birth, cancer and other illnesses and death. A research contract has been negotiated between FDA, Merck and the Norwegian Government (25)
The contract includes this statement from FDA to Merck: “You have committed to conduct a study in collaboration with the Norwegian Government, if GARDASIL ® is approved in the European Union and the Government of Norway incorporates HPV vaccination into its national guidelines, to assess the impact of HPV vaccination on the following in Norway:
e) The interaction between administration of GARDASIL ® and pregnancy outcomes, especially congenital anomalies, by linking the vaccination registry with the Medical Birth Registry.”


25. Whether Gardasil is excreted in human milk
According to product information studies have not been carried out. (2)



26. The complete list of ingredients
Unbelievable though it may seem, Merck does not know the complete composition of Gardasil.
Unexpected vaccine ingredients have been revealed from time to time. Investigations may be carried out by independent research workers as there is no incentive for manufacturers to search for substances in their products which might be detrimental to health.
Discoveries have been made long after vaccines have been marketed. These include the SV40 (suspected of causing cancer) in polio vaccines, pig DNA in retrovirus vaccines, cytomegaloviruses and the recent discovery of aluminium bound recombinant HPV DNA in Gardasil, the consequences of which are unknown and may be horrific.
SaneVax: ”If Merck and Co., Inc. and the FDA knew small quantities of residual recombinant HPV L1-specific DNA fragments remain in Gardasil, why do marketing and information packets from around the world specifically state the vaccine contains ‘no viral DNA?”

It is reasonable to assume that the vaccine would not have gained approval had the manufacturers informed the authorities of the presence of the aluminum bound gene manipulated DNA due to potential health risks (27)

27. Whether possible benefits outweigh the risks
When Merck and other promoters know so little about the vaccine it is impossible for the risks to be weighed against possible benefits. Consequently, there are no grounds whatsoever on which safety may be evaluated.


http://vactruth.com/2011/11/04/27-di...ccine-secrets/
Reply

Snowflake
06-27-2012, 05:21 PM
27 Dirty Little Vaccine Secrets Every Parent Needs to Know About


1. Whether Gardasil prevents cancer

Gardasil is promoted as a vaccine which prevents cancer. Here is what immunologist Charlotte Haug M.D. Ph.D writes in her article in New Scientist (1)

Despite claims that the vaccine will cut cancer deaths by two-thirds or more, its overall effectiveness in the prevention of cervical cancer remains unknown and will not be known for decades.”

2. Necessity for boosters
Information regarding the possible necessity and intervals for booster doses is unknown.




3. Whether Gardasil increases the risk of cancer.
The vaccine has not been evaluated for the potential to cause carcinogenicity(2). Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!
There may be increased risk of cancer due to replacement of some virus strains with new strains which may be more carcinogenic.
“If HPV-16 and HPV-18 are effectively suppressed, will there be selective pressure on the remaining strains of HPV? Other strains may emerge as significant oncogenic serotypes” (3)
Rosemary Mathis, director of SaneVax asks:” Gardasil and Cervarix: Are strains targeted by the vaccines replaced by other HPV viruses?”(4)



4. Whether there is increased risk of cancer due to the unexpected discovery of aluminium bound recombinant HPV DNA
Dr. Sin Hang Lee, a pathologist at the Milford Hospital pathology laboratory was contracted by SaneVax to examine Gardasil for possible contamination. The samples tested positive for recombinant viral HPV-11 and viral HPV-18 residues, both of which were firmly attached to the aluminum adjuvant (5)
It is unknown whether the recombinant (genetically engineered) HPV DNA is capable of altering human DNA potentially initiating cancer (5)

5. Whether there is increased risk of autoimmune disorders due to the recombinant HPV DNA
It is unknown whether the genetically engineered HPV DNA, or adventitious DNA, is capable of altering human DNA potentially initiating a host of autoimmune disorders (5)

6. If HPV is necessarily an infection transmitted by sexual intercourse
Merck states that HPV is sexually transmitted. However, they surely are aware that HPV infection has been found in placentas, umbilical cord blood and in infants, so it is not necessarily an infection which is transmitted by sexual intercourse (6)
A May 2006 FDA VRBPAC document stated girls previously exposed to vaccine-relevant human papillomavirus and get inoculated with Gardasil have a 44.6% increase in getting cervical cancer in their life time” (31)
Dr.Jim Howenstine, M.D:“HPV vaccine increases the risk of developing a precancerous cervical lesion by 44.6% in women .previously infected with a HPV viral type found in the vaccine”(7)
An unknown but extremely large number of girls across the world who are already exposed to HPV are being pressured into taking the vaccine with the consequential risk of cervical cancer being increased by 44.6% (32).. Not only is this unethical and cynical, it is downright criminal.

7. Whether Gardasil causes genotoxicity
According to product information this has not been evaluated (2)



8. Whether the vaccine targets the relevant virus strains in different demographicsA May 2008 study on high-risk and multiple human papillomavirus (HPV) infections in cancer-free Jamaican women presented at the Second Annual International African-Caribbean Cancer Consortium Conference cited:
“The most important finding was that unlike the genotype distribution patterns seen in North America, Europe and some parts of Asia, HPV types 16 and 18 were not the most common high-risk genotype”(8) “Why is Gardasil marketed globally through the Gardasil Access Program when HPV 16 & 18 may not even be prevalent amongst the targeted populations?”
“HPV genotype distribution in this group of Jamaican women differs from the patterns found in Europe, North America and some parts of Asia. It may be necessary therefore to consider development of other vaccines which target genotypes found in our and similar populations. HPV genotyping as well as Pap smears should be considered”(28)



9. Whether the strains change in the course of time
Rosemary Mathis, SaneVax, writes “A graph clearly shows that HPV 16 & 18 are not even prevalent in Colombian women until their mid-20s – long after vaccine efficacy has worn off if a girl is administered Gardasil or Cervarix in her adolescent years”(8)



10. Adverse events due to concomitant administration with other vaccines
There are very few studies regarding relevant concomitant administration (2)



11. The true numbers and extent of serious adverse events
National Vaccine Information Center: “It is estimated that only between 1 and 10 percent of all adverse health outcomes which occur following vaccination are reported to VAERS” (9)(26)(32)
Dr. Russell Blaylock also discussed the low rate of reports of vaccine problems, being somewhere in the range of 2%, due to the passive and voluntary nature of the system. According to Blaylock’s estimate, it is likely that there are more than 600 deaths and over 100,000 serious adverse events from this vaccine (10)
SaneVax regularly publishes updates from VAERS reports regarding adverse events and deaths (11)
A fact of which Merck is well aware:
Merck has not disclosed to the public that during the trials 73.3% of the participants who received Gardasil acquired a new medical condition”(32)

12. Long term serious side effects
Jagannath Chatterjee:“Vaccine long term effects may span the lifetime particularly as the inflammatory process set in motion does not stop. Many of the vaccine ingredients lodge themselves permanently in the tissues, fat cells and the brain and continue to inflict a steady and progressive damage permanently. Attenuated live viruses introduced by vaccines may stay dormant for long periods, often mutate, and can become virulent when the immune system becomes weak due to any reason. As vaccines adversely affect the immune system viruses and bacteria present in humans that were not virulent earlier are today causing diseases”.

13. What the results would be if a true placebo had been used in all the clinical trials
The FDA allowed Merck to use a potentially reactive aluminum containing placebo as a control for most trial participants, rather than a non-reactive saline solution placebo. A reactive placebo can artificially increase the appearance of safety of an experimental drug or vaccine in a clinical trial” (12)(29)


14. What the results of clinical trials would be if Merck had not used their own exclusion criteria
The vaccine has been tested on handpicked groups (2, 13). These are not representative of the groups who have been, or will be vaccinated. Exclusion criteria:
1) Allergies to any component of the vaccine
2) History of a severe allergic reaction
3) Known history of any allergies to food or medicine
4) Immunocompromised, Immunodeficient or has an autoimmune condition
5) History of any condition, therapy, lab abnormality or other circumstance such that it is not in the best interest of the participant to participate
6) Clinically significant disease or clinically significant findings during the screening medical history or physical examination that, in the investigator’s opinion, would compromise the outcome of this study.
7) Have a weakened immune system or other immune problems
”If these “exclusion criteria” were known by, and applied to families in the United States of America, prior to the vaccination of their child, virtually none of the 22,000 girls and boys listed by the CDC’s VAERS reporting system as being injured by the Gardasil HPV vaccine, would have been allowed to be vaccinated, and 100 deceased HPV vaccinated children, would still be alive today”(13)
Summary: With the way the clinical trials are conducted as to which people they allow to participate the average population that the HPV vaccines are being administered to are omitted. Consequently, because of this practice it is now unknown how many have the potential to be at risk of having an adverse event.
15. Whether there is increased risk of blood clots when Gardasil is combined with hormonal contraceptive pills
Studies regarding the combination of Gardasil and contraceptive pills have focused on potential impairment of immune response (2), but not on the issue of increased risk of blood clots.
CDC states: “There have been some reports of blood clots in females after receiving Gardasil. These clots have occurred in the heart, lungs, and legs. Most of these people had a risk of getting blood clots, such as taking oral contraceptives (the birth control pill), smoking, obesity, and other risk factors” (14)
The reported cases of blood clots after Gardasil in VAERS may be blamed on other factors when the actual cause may in fact be due to the vaccine.
16. Whether thereis an increased risk of brain damage
The ingredient polysorbate renders the blood-brain barrier more porous and possibly facilitates passage of neurotoxic aluminium, sodium borate and other toxic substances through the blood-brain barrier into the brain tissue (15)

Many girls who suffer from injuries after Gardasil exhibit symptoms of brain damage (16)
There have been few if any autopsies which include thorough investigation of brain tissue of girls who have died after Gardasil.

17. Consequences of “bridging”, the extrapolation of study results from one group to another
In her article in the American Chronicle Christina England writes: “Gardasil has never been tested in young girls under fifteen years old, says whistleblower Diane Harper” (17). The vaccine has been advised for different age groups, also for boys, although it is not known whether similar results may be extrapolated to the different groups.
There is generally a lack of knowledge regarding the effects of vaccines in connection with hormonal changes in the body (for example puberty, menstrual cycles, pregnancy and menopause).



18. Consequences if the vaccine is not thoroughly shaken
Instructions for administration include thorough agitation (2) No studies can be found regarding the consequences if this instruction is not followed although this is a realistic situation in practice.



19. Whether the vaccine will increase the risk of infertility due to polysorbate.
Polysorbate has been shown to cause infertility in lab rats (18),(19)



20. Whether polysorbate is carcinogenic
Jeffrey J. Aufderheide in his article “Vaccine Ingredients: Non-Ionic Surfactants” asks: Could Tween 80 (polysorbate 80), being a carcinogen or co-carcinogen, also be one of the reasons vaccines are not tested for causing cancer?” (20)

21. Health consequences due to the presence of polysorbate and l-histidine
Cynthia A. Janak has written about this in her article “Polysorbate 80 and Histidine, a Marriage of Disaster” (21)



22. Whether aluminium adjuvant is safe
In her article “Aluminium in Vaccines. Where are the safety studies?” (22) Catherine Frompevich writes:
Since the 1930s vaccine makers have been using aluminum as an adjuvant in vaccines. However, from what I’ve been able to gather over years of researching vaccines and vaccinations, there doesn’t seem to be studies determining aluminum safety issues”.
“- although aluminum adjuvants have been used in vaccines for decades, they were never tested for safety in clinical trials”(30)
In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences”.
Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminium adjuvants,medical science’s understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor” (23)(31)

23. Consequences due to the presence sodium borate (borax)
Sodium borate is used as a food additive in some countries, but it is now banned in many places. For example, one Australian government recall site notes: “Product is Borax (sodium borate) which is a non permitted food additive and is harmful to health. So, if it’s harmful to health, why is it being added to the HPV vaccine?”(24)

24. Whether the vaccine will increase the risk of miscarriages, stillbirths or babies born with anomalies
“There are however no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women”(2)

Gardasil has been included in the childrens’ vaccination program in Norway for 12 year old girls.
Norway has been chosen for studies because there are several well organised obligatory population registers including ones for birth, cancer and other illnesses and death. A research contract has been negotiated between FDA, Merck and the Norwegian Government (25)
The contract includes this statement from FDA to Merck: “You have committed to conduct a study in collaboration with the Norwegian Government, if GARDASIL ® is approved in the European Union and the Government of Norway incorporates HPV vaccination into its national guidelines, to assess the impact of HPV vaccination on the following in Norway:
e) The interaction between administration of GARDASIL ® and pregnancy outcomes, especially congenital anomalies, by linking the vaccination registry with the Medical Birth Registry.”


25. Whether Gardasil is excreted in human milk
According to product information studies have not been carried out. (2)



26. The complete list of ingredients
Unbelievable though it may seem, Merck does not know the complete composition of Gardasil.
Unexpected vaccine ingredients have been revealed from time to time. Investigations may be carried out by independent research workers as there is no incentive for manufacturers to search for substances in their products which might be detrimental to health.
Discoveries have been made long after vaccines have been marketed. These include the SV40 (suspected of causing cancer) in polio vaccines, pig DNA in retrovirus vaccines, cytomegaloviruses and the recent discovery of aluminium bound recombinant HPV DNA in Gardasil, the consequences of which are unknown and may be horrific.
SaneVax: ”If Merck and Co., Inc. and the FDA knew small quantities of residual recombinant HPV L1-specific DNA fragments remain in Gardasil, why do marketing and information packets from around the world specifically state the vaccine contains ‘no viral DNA?”

It is reasonable to assume that the vaccine would not have gained approval had the manufacturers informed the authorities of the presence of the aluminum bound gene manipulated DNA due to potential health risks (27)

27. Whether possible benefits outweigh the risks
When Merck and other promoters know so little about the vaccine it is impossible for the risks to be weighed against possible benefits. Consequently, there are no grounds whatsoever on which safety may be evaluated.


http://vactruth.com/2011/11/04/27-di...ccine-secrets/
Reply

جوري
06-27-2012, 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Yes I can see it, the last post on that page is yours. Sis, I posted articles from Doctors who know their stuff. Not being a Doctor myself, you cannot ask me to give you the specific data you request. However, you can deduce that the Doctors who wrote the articles I posted - did not come to their conclusions willy nilly, but thru a sound process, one which you yourself are willing to do...

...You don't have to accept what I have posted, all I'm saying is that there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the pharma industry is a joke where they laugh longest and hardest, while babies cry til they sometimes die.

Scimi
The page can't load properly and I see the safes on it have left. The original article was posted by a psychologist and others by one whose opinion is orphan and debunked in the medical community. I have shown what accepted peer reviewed research looks like and how we interpret data. There's nothing more I can impart in shaa Allah those who browse or are lurking can make an intelligent decision. By law in medicine we are required to display risks and benefit and the patient or parent in this case can make up their mind whether a .05% risk of anaphylaxis for instance is worth their child's death from complications of contracting a particular virus.. My main concern is with those who make haram what Allah swt made halal not whether of not you've convinced me with third party quotes

:w:
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جوري
06-27-2012, 06:27 PM
That meant to say sages I really hate how the forum pages aren't working and I can't even edit so that it makes sense I am typing from the phone

:w:
Reply

cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-27-2012, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
However, I do have a bachelors, masters and a doctorate which means a higher education affording me a chance to understand how science works vs. how movies are made (don't know how those are made either) but apparently they're quite convincing considering.
Ukhti, You can afford a chance to understand how science works, yet, a psychologist cannot afford a chance to understand how science works? Be fair here come on. Aisha Hamdan actually has a PhD in Phsychology AND a BA in Islamic studies. The Next article posted was by Dr. A. Majid Katme, MBBCh, DPM who is also a Spokesman for the Islamic Medical Association in the UK. He is a Medical doctor who is also capable of understanding how science works, since apparently the rest of us are incompetent. >_>

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
The original article was posted by a psychologist and others by one whose opinion is orphan and debunked in the medical community.
If you haven't made yourself a name like they have, then why discredit them? They are perfectly capable of understanding the things you do, and both being Muslim, they did the CORRECT thing and looked beyond science, they place Islam first, not their academics from what I can see. They didn't stick with just the lopsided science we have now. Science and religion were separated in or around the 1700's, when we entered the material age full fledged. Before then, science and religion were together, as they should be.

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
By law in medicine we are required to display risks and benefit and the patient or parent in this case can make up their mind whether a .05% risk of anaphylaxis for instance is worth their child's death from complications of contracting a particular virus..
Doctors, myself included, learn a lot about diseases in medical school, but we learn very little about vaccines, other than the fact that the FDA and pharmaceutical companies do extensive research on vaccines to make sure they are safe and effective. We don't review the research ourselves. We never learn what goes into making vaccines or how their safety is studied. We trust and take it for granted that the proper researchers are doing their jobs. So, when patients want a little more information about shots, all we can really say as doctors is that the diseases are bad and the shots are good. But we don't know enough to answer all of your detailed questions about vaccines. Nor do we have the time during regular health checkup to thoroughly discuss and debate the pros and cons of vaccines - Dr. Robert W Sears, MD
^^Dr.Sears is NOT anti-vaccine by the way and is one of the most well known pediatricians in the U.S.

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
My main concern is with those who make haram what Allah swt made halal not whether of not you've convinced me with third party quotes
MMR- sucrose, hydrolyzed gelatin (in most cases porcine derived), sorbitol, monosodium L-glutamate, sodium
phosphate dibasic, human albumin, sodium bicarbonate, potassium
phosphate monobasic, potassium chloride, potassium phosphate dibasic,
neomycin, bovine calf serum, chick embryo cell culture, WI-38 human
diploid lung fibroblasts, MRC-5 cells

zoster- sucrose, hydrolyzed porcine gelatin, monosodium L-glutamate, sodium
phosphate dibasic, potassium phosphate monobasic, neomycin, potassium
chloride, residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and
protein, bovine calf serum

The ingredients alone are clearly haraam, no scholar needs to say this. All Muslims know that pork is haraam, abortion is haraam, slaughtered cow that is not slaughtered according to islamic law is haraam. There's loads more ingredients that are being overlooked here, just using two vaccines as an example. These are basic understanding we should all have as muslims. We all know these things are haraam so then? Look at every single vaccine and the ingredients list from the CDC http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf


In the US Alone every baby under the age of 1 gets 26 doses of this junk, that is just in year one. That is assault. As I have said before, this isn't about the doctors themselves, or the scientists, in fact, we have scientist who have sued merk, a big manufacturer for vaccines for being dishonest. This is a shady business.


In the complaint, the scientists outline in great detail exactly how Merck manipulated the efficacy results in order to be able to say they had a 95% effective vaccine so that they could meet the fairytale goal of vaccine-induced “herd immunity by 2010.” Well, it turns out that the vaccine could not meet the goal that CDC projected to eradicate mumps by 2010, BECAUSE the vaccine, in its current state cannot reliably confer immunity, and is in fact a dilute version of what it once was when Maurice Hilleman invented it using the virus of his five year old daughter. The same viral mumps strain has been in use in every mumps or MMR vaccine Merck has made since 1967.
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20...-humphries-md/


This opens up another can of worms. ;)

- cOsMiC
Reply

جوري
06-27-2012, 08:27 PM
A psychologist isn't a psychiatrist even one is a PhD and the other an MD. be that as it may, I am not toting around an MD in anesthesiology while commenting extensively on orthopedics. Surely you can see where that would be absurd for even an anesthesiologist spends their time in the OR to comment, everyone is best suited to their fields of expertise. We're talking a woman who should be concerned with psychoanalysis not an egg allergy.
No one has brought anything substantive to the table and it worries me truly what you deem scientific or research... since by its very nature should be free from bias and personal opinion or agenda. That in and of itself is a confounder.
Like I said what you believe and I emphasize the term isn't what concerns me. What concerns me is that someone interested in Islam lurking there waiting to see what this religion is about and is in turn met with conspiracy theories, frank ignorance and almost a form of intellectual and religious bullying of what Allah swt made halal.

If you want to make vaccines and medications and doctors and 'big pharma co.' into some sort of monstrosity with a global agenda looking to feed on your brains and that is of your kids it is your business and your right-- It is my privilege however to counter that with sound knowledge, and I believe several people on this thread have done that successfully. They've obviously taken a leave due to the redundancy and almost crusade like charge to sway public opinion. It has failed and keeps failing and you should look to the reasons why..
BTW if you desire to make pilgrimage you'll have to have certain vaccines which also change to those above a certain age i.e 65 since they're susceptible to a whole other set.. so try to convince the entire Islamic council from making haram those recommendations which are otherwise mandatory during pilgrimage since you're not only endangering you life and your offspring but an entire population of pilgrims.

:w:
Reply

جوري
06-27-2012, 08:38 PM
Again can neither quote, edit or open all the pages so hopefully the technical bugs can be fixed in sha Allah..
Reply

Tyrion
06-27-2012, 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
Ukhti, You can afford a chance to understand how science works, yet, a psychologist cannot afford a chance to understand how science works? Be fair here come on. Aisha Hamdan actually has a PhD in Phsychology AND a BA in Islamic studies. The Next article posted was by Dr. A. Majid Katme, MBBCh, DPM who is also a Spokesman for the Islamic Medical Association in the UK. He is a Medical doctor who is also capable of understanding how science works, since apparently the rest of us are incompetent. >_>
Dunno why you're bringing up Islamic qualifications, since they don't really mean anything in this context. They could have all the Islamic studies degrees in the world, and it would't affect how much science/medicine they could understand.

Also, as I mentioned in my last post (which you might wanna read), one or two articles are almost never enough to take down an entire field of study, especially when most others in that field have dismissed and proven those opposing views false.

You can't think of it like religion.

Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
If you haven't made yourself a name like they have, then why discredit them?
You don't honestly think that someone is more trustworthy because they've built a name for themselves, do you?

Also I'm having trouble understanding something... Isn't the general view of the members here that we should listen to scholars on issues we don't understand, and typically go with the majority after they've done their research and come up with a result? Is there a reason why you guys don't feel that way about non religious subjects?
Reply

Muezzin
06-27-2012, 09:36 PM
I'm not sure if leaving this thread open will lead to someone refusing to take a vaccine that could save their life. FYI, neither Islamicboard nor any of its moderators are affiliated with major pharmaceutical companies.

It's hard to believe some of the things on this thread, and the use or misuse of Ahadith. Guys, it's really stretching things to argue that medication with porcine or simian extracts transforms humans into pigs and apes respectively.
Reply

جوري
06-27-2012, 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
and the use or misuse of Ahadith
This is the part that I find most bothersome. No Islamic council has issued such a fatwa, and preventing people from taking vaccines especially elderly on their way to pilgrimage (which is made mandatory btw) in my book is almost criminal. Yes I know Saudi Arabia is evil, as I have come to learn or late amongst other things.. I honestly can't believe my eyes of what I am reading!
Reply

جوري
06-27-2012, 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Na'imah
A list of vaccines and their ingredients:

(www)(dot)cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

A list of TOXIC substances:

toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/text_version/chemicals.php?id=1
I haven't the time to go after every post individually but will give an example with this one, of what is grossly wrong with lay people interpreting medical data.
The sister here lists for us 'vaccine ingredients' - she decided then to google the ingredient acetone, she links us to another page on the NIH to cement the kind of authority her later 'research' wields..acetone oh my God that's nail polish remover.
but did she bother for instance to also equally google that acetone is an endogenous ketone water soluble and naturally found in the body? Or do you also wish to question God why he would create in us such fatty acids to be broken down for energy?

I can do this for every ingredient and every article you bring and repeat and re-post.. so do we really want to go down that path?
Reply

cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
06-27-2012, 11:03 PM
A psychologist isn't a psychiatrist even one is a PhD and the other an MD. be that as it may, I am not toting around an MD in anesthesiology while commenting extensively on orthopedics. Surely you can see where that would be absurd for even an anesthesiologist spends their time in the OR to comment, everyone is best suited to their fields of expertise.
I pointed out their fields because you stated that because of your higher level of education, you can afford to understand science better, read research papers such as the one you showed here etc. So, Regardless of their fields of expertise, they can also afford to understand science better, just like you can. Your field isn't immunology correct? So, you choose pro-vaccination based on your understanding. The Doctors, regardless of their field, can choose to be against vaccinations based on their understanding. Nobody should follow anybody blindly without question.

What concerns me is that someone interested in Islam lurking there waiting to see what this religion is about and is in turn met with conspiracy theories, frank ignorance and almost a form of intellectual and religious bullying of what Allah swt made halal.
They are only theories when there is no fact to back them up. Here's just an example,

Fact: medical Research is funded by Banks.
http://www.bnpparibas.com/en/about-u...bas-foundation
http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about...1-7BE22D89B2E2

Banks are all ribah based as we all know.

“The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the one who consumes ribaa, the one who pays it, the one who writes it down and the two who witness it. He said they are all the same.” (Narrated by Muslim).
Before anyone puts words in my mouth, let me just say that I understand ribah is just about inevitable now a days. I've mentioned many times now that this isn't a personal attack against doctors and those who spend their lives studying medicine, not at all. However, it cannot be denied that money runs the show, ribah runs the show and therefore we must question it and not follow it blindly. If you all actually take the time to read the information provided, instead of dismissing it because it comes from what you all consider to be ignoramuses, you all would see what is actually being said here. Instead of splitting apart we should come together, and those of you with medical knowledge can help, for instance to understand medical terminology a bit more, and you yourselves should be a bit more humble and open up to understanding the other side of the coin/ a different perspective, but instead it is all taken personal and so therefore all the information ignored, or broken apart to show weak points. lame.

I'm not going to waste my time any further and continue on a circle, when it's clear you all haven't taken the time to reflect upon what has been said here, only to point out things you don't agree with. At least us layman don't trust anyone blindly. Personally, I question every book I read and trace where their information comes from. If it is one sided I read the other side or the argument as well. That is how I made the decision to not vaccinate. None of you who are studying medicine or what have you, have brought anything decent to the table asides your personal opinions.

If you want to make vaccines and medications and doctors and 'big pharma co.' into some sort of monstrosity with a global agenda looking to feed on your brains and that is of your kids it is your business and your right--
For the 4th time now I say, this is NOT about doctors themselves, medical students etc. So stop making it personal, because ultimately that is what is happening here. This is about where we stand in time, the bigger picture. Nobody is looking to feed on anyone's brains as far as I know. This is all about how to make the bigger buck is all. These people don't care about anyone, they care about money and we were warned about this. Yet medical doctors according to you "take an oath". To whom??

- cOsMiC
Reply

جوري
06-27-2012, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn

I pointed out their fields because you stated that because of your higher level of education, you can afford to understand science better, read research papers such as the one you showed here etc. So, Regardless of their fields of expertise, they can also afford to understand science better, just like you can. Your field isn't immunology correct? So, you choose pro-vaccination based on your understanding. The Doctors, regardless of their field, can choose to be against vaccinations based on their understanding. Nobody should follow anybody blindly without question.
It is a faulty analogy. Firstly as I am not loaning my expertise to an area completely outside my sphere, nor am I favoring a field of study over another or suggesting that one field is superior to another. I am merely pointing out that her chosen field is psychology and she has a PhD -It isn't an MD- they follow a completely different course . Secondly though I have had extensive training in immunology, epidemiology and research not by choice just where I found myself working I am still not writing articles from a personal interest nothing pro or against vaccinations and in fact conceded as much to ABZ when he requested my research. I told him where my research was concentrated. I didn't quote third party sources nor populate defunct articles and labeled it 'research'- rather what I have done and what anyone else can do really with what is presented here is point out the error therein such as with the very last post I wrote (above)!



They are only theories when there is no fact to back them up. Here's just an example,
Incorrect, the mere fact that something is physically given and effects are seen means it has made it past the theoretical to experimental.

Fact: medical Research is funded by Banks.
This is an odd segue whether or not research is funded by a bank, a good Samaritan, public funds or the govt. isn't important. What matters is finding cures, or preventative vaccines to the things that plague humanity. Or at least sparing someone the ills of casting doubt upon their character or religiosity for resorting to medications or vaccines. If you managed to avoid getting sick more power to you and what a great blessing. That is not the case for the majority of people in the world of whom 70% live below poverty lines and where death from diseases like Rota virus could be easily avoided but to further suggest that they should simply die because it is fate and you've made this into a haram and that into a haram isn't compatible with Islamic beliefs. Not compatible whatsoever-- Frankly I find it cruel & vile & completely deviant from aqeedah!



Before anyone puts words in my mouth, let me just say that I understand ribah is just about inevitable now a days. I've mentioned many times now that this isn't a personal attack against doctors and those who spend their lives studying medicine, not at all. However, it cannot be denied that money runs the show, ribah runs the show and therefore we must question it and not follow it blindly. If you all actually take the time to read the information provided, instead of dismissing it because it comes from what you all consider to be ignoramuses, you all would see what is actually being said here. Instead of splitting apart we should come together, and those of you with medical knowledge can help, for instance to understand medical terminology a bit more, and you yourselves should be a bit more humble and open up to understanding the other side of the coin/ a different perspective, but instead it is all taken personal and so therefore all the information ignored, or broken apart to show weak points. lame.
Again the concept of ribba has nothing to do with the topic, nor is blindness appropriately applied in this situation. True blindness is taking selective truths and making it into something which it isn't..
And I wouldn't be so quick to judge anyone's personal experience, paupers or doctors alike as they're often not mutually exclusive!
Anyone can easily concoct some truth about you in the time you sat at home and became queen bee for some guy to support you & your kid financially so you'd have the luxury to google metered dose facts, others were scraping, running on three hour sleep, taking all sorts of abuses with pennies in their pocket and generally missing out on life and still have nothing to show for it in the end. So as your friend a couple of posts down suggests, who is really being condescending? No one needs to sprawl their life out for your satisfaction nor is there any dignity in that!

I'm not going to waste my time any further and continue on a circle, when it's clear you all haven't taken the time to reflect upon what has been said here, only to point out things you don't agree with. At least us layman don't trust anyone blindly. Personally, I question every book I read and trace where their information comes from. If it is one sided I read the other side or the argument as well. That is how I made the decision to not vaccinate. None of you who are studying medicine or what have you, have brought anything decent to the table asides your personal opinions.
It is apparently only clear to your clique.. we're not talking the ladies home journal here or entertainment tonight or youtube. We are talking entire institutions & dedicated physicians who spend their life in the pursuit of science!
And I find it rather unfair that you suggest that we haven't brought anything decent to the table. I don't think you bother read other that what the few of you post to pat each other on the back for a similar opinion. Zaria, truestranger, Rhubarb, tyrion, pathos, Muezzin and myself have been rebutting you articles every step of the way. Should we be faulted for you disliking content?
Worst than not reading is frank dishonesty, such as with the sister with similar agenda to yours who posts something as a 'toxic' substance and yet fails to disclose that it is also a naturally occurring compound in the body.
Would you not consider that equally haram to making what is lawful haram especially when she alleges that she knew that all along and that the rest of us are being condescending as if having a valid assessment of the situation is some sort of crime.



For the 4th time now I say, this is NOT about doctors themselves, medical students etc. So stop making it personal, because ultimately that is what is happening here. This is about where we stand in time, the bigger picture. Nobody is looking to feed on anyone's brains as far as I know. This is all about how to make the bigger buck is all. These people don't care about anyone, they care about money and we were warned about this. Yet medical doctors according to you "take an oath". To whom??

- cOsMiC
No one is looking to make the big bucks off you and if vaccines are offered free to the underprivileged it isn't because they're being experimented on. As it seems there's no winning the direction taken, 'big pharma' is making med or surgical instruments at the end of the day the receiving & giving end of things is a human being .. thus I honestly don't know who 'they' that you speak of? Institutions are made of people. I think you're the one who is taking it personally.
I take alot of crap on and off screen from people and yet it wouldn't deter me nor make me cower from posting or saying it as it should be said. It isn't a popularity contest.. I am not looking to be liked. I am looking for transparency.

:w:
Reply

CosmicPathos
06-28-2012, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by Snowflake
The purpose of Gardasil and Cervarix (GlaxoSmithKline’s HPV vaccine), according to the fuzzy logic of Big Pharma, is to prevent cervical cancer. Regardless of what the drug companies, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), or your child’s physician says, not only is there no firm scientific data to support that widespread contention, but the whole concept is irrational. The vaccine has been shown to prevent precancerous changes of the cervix, but to assume that these changes will progress to cancer is dishonest and manipulative. Ninety percent of HPV infections clear up spontaneously.
This is wrong info, sis. There is validated irrefutable scientific evidence which shows that cervical dysplasia (carcinoma in-situ) has a significantly higher chances of converting into a malignant cancer. HPV vaccine prevents malignant cervical cancer by keeping away HPV infections.

"In postlicensure safety surveillance for the quadrivalent HPV vaccine, 6.2% of all reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) described serious adverse events, including neurologic injury (eg, Guillain-Barré syndrome) and 32 reports of death. In comparison with other vaccines, rates of most of these adverse events were no greater than the background rates, but there was disproportional reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events."


  1. Slade BA, Leidel L, Vellozzi C, Woo EJ, Hua W, Sutherland A, et al. Postlicensure safety surveillance for quadrivalent human papillomavirus recombinant vaccine. JAMA. Aug 19 2009;302(7):750-7. [Medline].

And we are not talking about mandatory vaccination here, these HPV vaccines are for sexually active women (which is haram in Islam outside marriage). We are talking about vaccination to babies.
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
This is wrong info, sis. There is validated irrefutable scientific evidence which shows that cervical dysplasia (carcinoma in-situ) has a significantly higher chances of converting into a malignant cancer. HPV vaccine prevents malignant cervical cancer by keeping away HPV infections.

"In postlicensure safety surveillance for the quadrivalent HPV vaccine, 6.2% of all reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) described serious adverse events, including neurologic injury (eg, Guillain-Barré syndrome) and 32 reports of death. In comparison with other vaccines, rates of most of these adverse events were no greater than the background rates, but there was disproportional reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events."


  1. Slade BA, Leidel L, Vellozzi C, Woo EJ, Hua W, Sutherland A, et al. Postlicensure safety surveillance for quadrivalent human papillomavirus recombinant vaccine. JAMA. Aug 19 2009;302(7):750-7. [Medline].
You should tackle the rubella one next, it will be good study material for you because it often shows up on the boards... and also because I am too lazy to do it :p
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 12:33 AM
The thing about the HPV vaccine is it doesn't cover all strains but a few including the three strains which may progress to carcinoma but the other strains that don't progress to cancer are NOT a walk in the park either ..
not cancer but certainly ugly to have and not without its problems
local or otherwise



either way I don't care much for the HPV vaccine or that recombinant flu one but the childhood stuff is a necessity in my opinion...

:w:
Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

I haven't the time to go after every post individually but will give an example with this one, of what is grossly wrong with lay people interpreting medical data.
The sister here lists for us 'vaccine ingredients' - she decided then to google the ingredient acetone, she links us to another page on the NIH to cement the kind of authority her later 'research' wields..acetone oh my God that's nail polish remover.
but did she bother for instance to also equally google that acetone is an endogenous ketone water soluble and naturally found in the body? Or do you also wish to question God why he would create in us such fatty acids to be broken down for energy?

I can do this for every ingredient and every article you bring and repeat and re-post.. so do we really want to go down that path?
Must you be so condescending? :hmm: I didn't need to Google, "...that acetone is an endogenous ketone..." as I'm already aware of that fact. I also didn't Google the ingredient, "acetone." I did a search for a list of known toxic substances.

I may not have all the degrees that you do, but I am, in fact, a very intelligent person (IQ 140.) A degree is no indication of intelligence. You may think I'm an ignorant "layperson," but you don't know me and I think it's very insulting for you to imply that I'm somehow less intelligent than you. Oh, wait! "Oh my God! She has a bachelor's, master's, and a doctorate degree!" Oh yeah, you must be so much smarter than me!

"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." ~Mahatma Gandhi

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth." ~Mahatma Gandhi

"God is, even though the whole world deny him. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self-sustained." ~Mahatma Gandhi

"In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place." ~Mahatma Gandhi
Reply

CosmicPathos
06-28-2012, 03:41 AM
btw, it has been proposed that mahatama gandhi was a gay. Dont rely on him too much, sis.
Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 03:43 AM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
btw, it has been proposed that mahatama gandhi was a gay. Dont rely on him too much, sis.
Lolz!;D
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 03:48 AM
Originally Posted by Na'imah
Must you be so condescending? :hmm:
I don't see how posting the facts is condescending? I don't even like the posts that I want to like here to avoid being condescending such as happening with this clique and at the end of the day I care about my brothers and sisters. But I will not be a silent accomplice to nonsense!

I didn't need to Google, "...that acetone is an endogenous ketone..." as I'm already aware of that fact. I also didn't Google the ingredient, "acetone." I did a search for a list of known toxic substances.
Why do you then post it with such alarm as a toxic substance and yet at the same time fail to disclose the fact of the matter?

I may not have all the degrees that you do, but I am, in fact, a very intelligent person (IQ 140.) A degree is no indication of intelligence. You may think I'm an ignorant "layperson," but you don't know me and I think it's very insulting for you to imply that I'm somehow less intelligent than you. Oh, wait! "Oh my God! She has a bachelor's, master's, and a doctorate degree!" Oh yeah, you must be so much smarter than me!
This isn't about intelligence, laurels or even forcing you to take something you're not comfortable with. This is about many of you making haram what isn't, spreading partial information and generally bullying people to accept it as facts. The fact that you make this about intellect, IQ, or degrees is more your problem than mine.. This whole thread is centered around dropping some names and yet by the same token you dislike that others with similar qualifications exactly in the field should debunk what you post?


"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." ~Mahatma Gandhi

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth." ~Mahatma Gandhi

"God is, even though the whole world deny him. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self-sustained." ~Mahatma Gandhi

"In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place." ~Mahatma Gandhi
Quotes are irrelevant and even more dangerous is the misuse and misapplication of religion.
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 05:05 AM
MMRV Vaccine Safety Studies

Results from Studies Before MMRV Vaccine Was Licensed

Here are key findings from CDC's Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) studies of MMRV vaccine (before it was licensed) among children aged 12-23 months:

  • Two adverse events occurred more frequently during the 42 days after the first dose of MMRV vaccine compared with separate injections of MMR and varicella vaccines—a fever of 102° F or higher and rash. Most of the risk for fever and rash was in the 5-12 days after vaccination. These conditions typically resolved on their own.
  • Soreness at the injection site was reported less often after MMRV vaccine than after MMR and varicella vaccines given in separate shots at the same visit.
  • The rates of adverse events after MMRV vaccination were: Soreness at injection site: 1 child out of 5;
    Fever: 1 child out of 5; and
    Rash: 1 child out of 20.
  • The rates of adverse events for MMR and varicella vaccines administered at the same visit were:
    Soreness at injection site: 1 child out of 4;
    Fever: 1 child out of 7; and
    Rash: 1 child out of 25.

Because these studies showed an increased risk for fever after MMRV vaccination, compared with vaccination with MMR and varicella vaccines in separate shots at the same visit, there was concern about a potential increased risk for febrile seizures (seizures triggered by a rising or dropping fever) after MMRV vaccination. As part of routine monitoring of vaccine safety for all new vaccines, CDC conducted studies of the safety of MMRV vaccine. In these studies, CDC analyzed data reported to the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) regarding MMRV vaccine given to children aged 12-23 months, the age when the first dose of MMRV or MMR and varicella vaccines is recommended. The study assessed the rate of several medical events after MMRV vaccination, including febrile seizures.
Results from Studies After MMRV Vaccine Was Licensed

The following findings are from CDC's Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) study of the safety of MMRV vaccine (after it was licensed) among children aged 12-23 months:

  • 7-10 days after the first dose of vaccination, the rate of febrile seizures was about 2 times higher among children who received MMRV vaccine (8.5 per 10,000 children vaccinated) than among children who received measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) and varicella vaccines separately at the same visit (4.2 per 10,000 children vaccinated), mainly before MMRV vaccine became available.
  • 7-10 days after vaccination, about one additional febrile seizure would be expected to occur among every 2,300 children vaccinated with first-dose MMRV vaccine compared with children vaccinated with the first doses of MMR and varicella shots at the same visit.

Merck, the manufacturer of the MMRV vaccine, also sponsored an observational study (after MMRV vaccine was licensed) of febrile seizures after the first dose of MMRV vaccine was given to children aged 12-23 months. Here are some key findings from that study:

  • The rate of febrile seizures 5-12 days after first dose of vaccination was 7.0 per 10,000 children who received MMRV vaccine compared with a rate of 3.2 per 10,000 children who received measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) and varicella vaccines separately at the same visit (3.2 is the rate before MMRV vaccine became available).
  • 5-12 days after vaccination, about one additional febrile seizure would be expected to occur among every 2,600 children vaccinated with the first dose of MMRV vaccine compared with children vaccinated with the first doses of MMR and varicella vaccines administered at the same visit.

These findings and other relevant data were presented to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). In May 2010, CDC released new recommendations on the use of MMRV vaccine.
To help parents and healthcare providers better understand the ACIP recommendations, risks and benefits of MMRV vaccine, and febrile seizures, the following information is available:


Related Scientific Articles

Jacobsen SJ, Ackerson BK, Sy LS, Tran TN, Jones TL, Yao JF, Xie F, Cheetham TC, Saddier P. Observational safety study of febrile convulsion following first dose MMRV vaccination in a managed care setting. Vaccine 2009 Jul 23;27(34):4656-61.
Klein NP, Fireman B, Yih WK, et al. Measles-mumps-rubella-varicella combination vaccine and the risk of febrile seizures. Pediatrics 2010. In press.
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 05:17 AM
Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Acellular Pertussis (DTaP) Vaccine

DTaP vaccine protects from diphtheria, tetanus (lockjaw), and pertussis (whooping cough). It is designed to be given in a series of 5 doses. DTaP was first licensed in 1991, and research shows that it is much safer than the previous formulation, DTP. Currently, there are 3 licensed formulations of the DTaP vaccine. Many different clinical trials were conducted on each vaccine to make sure of its safety. Results from clinical trials showed that these vaccines are very safe for infants and children.
Currently, there are 3 licensed DTaP vaccines in the United States:

  • DAPTACEL: Before licensure, 8 clinical studies were conducted and a total of 17,577 doses of DAPTACEL vaccine were administered to infants and children. Following clinical studies, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) licensed this vaccine in 2002. Since licensed, the most common adverse events reported have been tenderness and redness where the shot was given, headache, diarrhea, and fussiness. To learn more about DAPTACEL, visit FDA.
  • Tripedia: In one clinical trial, over 3,000 U.S. infants and 12,000 German infants received one or more doses of Tripedia vaccine as part of the primary immunization series. The clinical trial results showed a reduction in side effects from the previous DTP formulation. FDA licensed this vaccine in 2001. Since licensed, the most common adverse events reported have been soreness where the shot was given, headache, fever, drowsiness, and fussiness. To learn more about Tripedia, visit FDA.
  • INFANRIX: Approximately 95,000 doses of INFANRIX were administered in clinical studies. Clinical studies resulted in FDA licensing this vaccine in 1997. Since licensed, the most common adverse events reported have been soreness where the shot was given, headache, dizziness, and severe allergic reaction. To learn more about INFANRIX, visit FDA.

Related Scientific Articles

Benson PJ, Jackson LA, Rees TG, Dunn JB. Changes in DT vaccine frequency and indications for use following introduction of DTaP vaccine. Human Vaccine 2008;493):234-237.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Use of diphtheria toxoid-tetanus toxoid-acellular pertussis vaccine as a five-dose series: supplemental recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). MMWR 2000;49(RR13):1-8.
Rosenthal S, Chen R, Hadler S. The safety of acellular pertussis vaccine vs. whole-cell pertussis vaccine: a postmarketing assessment. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med 1996;150(5):457-460.

_________________________

people can see studies on the vaccines and adverse effect profile on the same page!
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2012, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
Currently, there are 3 licensed DTaP vaccines in the United States:
only three? ^o)

Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
This is about many of you making haram what isn't
It's about choice sis, please don't get that twisted. If this is what the issue is for you then, it is solved.

You just have to be able to accept the fact that some of us are against certain immunizations... that is all :)

Scimi
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 02:19 PM
Can't visit page 8 for direct quote!
At any rate akhi, please see my quote below:
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
or even forcing you to take something you're not comfortable with. This is about many of you making haram what isn't,
You're not the first nor the last persons to refuse preventative measures or treatment. And I think that the entire thread is studded with folks asserting that no one can force any treatment or vaccine on you. There's a syndrome here of not reading but being inflammatory when countered.
I am perfectly ok with communities living like the amish & hutrites if they feel that life style suits them.. I am not however OK forcing that life style on others or turning others into sinners for not accepting said lifestyle..

I think all that needs to be said here has been said!

:w:
Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 02:45 PM
"Worst than not reading is frank dishonesty, such as with the sister with similar agenda to yours who posts something as a 'toxic' substance and yet fails to disclose that it is also a naturally occurring compound in the body.
Would you not consider that equally haram to making what is lawful haram especially when she alleges that she knew that all along and that the rest of us are being condescending as if having a valid assessment of the situation is some sort of crime."


So, because I didn't mention that acetone is a naturally occurring compound in the body, that makes me dishonest? Seriously? I didn't bother mentioning it, because I took for granted that everyone here is so "educated" that I didn't need to mention that. Do you even know what "condescending" means? You don't seem to. :hmm:

We're not making anything haram. We merely stated that some vaccines contain haram ingredients. You can't deny that and you need to stop putting words into other people's mouths and "assuming."

Yes, acetone is a naturally occurring substance in the body. That doesn't mean we can or should inject or ingest extra and not think it won't (possibly) have some kind of deleterious effects. You also can't deny that it can be toxic in excessive amounts. There are many things that can be toxic in excessive amounts. I, personally, don't want acetone injected into my body. That's my right. Water is a naturally occurring substance in our bodies, but you can DIE if you ingest too much in a short period of time.

I have never just accepted the word of anyone, without researching for myself. I don't care what these "trusted" doctors and researchers say...I trust no one. If I did accept the words of others as absolute truth, I would never have accepted Islam. I say, Alhamdulillah for inquisitive minds!

As for bullying? How, exactly is expressing an opinion, bullying? I see no arm-twisting going on here or, "if you don't accept this, I'm gonna do this, this, or that." ^o)

As for quotes, I happen to love quotes. It's irrelevant that you find that irrelevant. :p Lolz!

Obviously, it's clear that not everyone agrees on this issue. I will not inject/ingest KNOWN toxic substances into my body or the body of my loved ones. If you and others feel comfortable doing so, more power to you.

Peace, out. :statisfie
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Na'imah
"


So, because I didn't mention that acetone is a naturally occurring compound in the body, that makes me dishonest? Seriously? I didn't bother mentioning it, because I took for granted that everyone here is so "educated" that I didn't need to mention that. Do you even know what "condescending" means? You don't seem to. :hmm:
I believe only you can honestly answer why you didn't disclose the information. To me the natural conclusion is
a- You didn't know (and I am so inclined to believe)
b- You were being dishonest

We're not making anything haram. We merely stated that some vaccines contain haram ingredients. You can't deny that and you need to stop putting words into other people's mouths and "assuming."
It pays to read then before you write, I invite you to read all of Cosmic, and scimi's posts before you 'like' them.

Yes, acetone is a naturally occurring substance in the body. That doesn't mean we can or should inject or ingest extra and not think it won't (possibly) have some kind of deleterious effects. You also can't deny that it can be toxic in excessive amounts. There are many things that can be toxic in excessive amounts. I, personally, don't want acetone injected into my body. That's my right. Water is a naturally occurring substance in our bodies, but you can DIE if you ingest too much in a short period of time.
Oh I wasn't aware litres existed in a 30 guage 1 ml syringe.. you're ab****ely right, what were thinking.

I have never just accepted the word of anyone, without researching for myself. I don't care what these "trusted" doctors and researchers say...I trust no one. If I did accept the words of others as absolute truth, I would never have accepted Islam. I say, Alhamdulillah for inquisitive minds!
Yunus[10:108] [RECITE]
[top] [next match]

Qul ya ayyuha alnnasu qad jaakumu alhaqqu min rabbikum famani ihtada fainnama yahtadee linafsihi waman dalla fainnama yadillu AAalayha wama ana AAalaykum biwakeelin
you're not doing me any favors by accepting Islam.

As for bullying? How, exactly is expressing an opinion, bullying? I see no arm-twisting going on here or, "if you don't accept this, I'm gonna do this, this, or that." ^o)
So long as you concede it is nothing more than personal opinion!

As for quotes, I happen to love quotes. It's irrelevant that you find that irrelevant. :p Lolz!
Ma shaa Allah--so clever!

Obviously, it's clear that not everyone agrees on this issue. I will not inject/ingest KNOWN toxic substances into my body or the body of my loved ones. If you and others feel comfortable doing so, more power to you.

Peace, out. :statisfie
guess that should include everything including water and apples... best to think of how to crystalize your conviction because you end up contradicting yourself..

best,
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
only three? ^o)


Yes. only three DTaP.. you're welcome to show me how much more exist.. In fact many vaccines are discontinued and companies are shut down because of campaigns of people such as yourselves. Imagine folks working on a malaria vaccine which could save millions of lives and then quitting half way because of rumors, misinfrmation etc. especially considering that said vaccine would target Africans & no money would be made from it and we all know how big pharm co. is secretly wanting to either make zillions or eradicate populations. So they stopped it in its tracks.

:w:
Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 03:32 PM
[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846] I believe only you can honestly answer why you didn't disclose the information. To me the natural conclusion is
a- You didn't know (and I am so inclined to believe)
b- You were being dishonest[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]

Nice! So, now you're calling me a liar? I already stated why. I don't care if you believe it or not.

[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]It pays to read then before you write, I invite you to read all of Cosmic, and scimi's posts before you 'like' them.[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]


Just because one "likes" a post, doesn't necessarily mean one agrees with everything stated in said post. There you go, "assuming" again. ^o)

[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]
Oh I wasn't aware litres existed in a 30 guage 1 ml syringe.. you're ab****ely right, what were thinking.[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]

Cumulative! Cumulative!




[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]
you're not doing me any favors by accepting Islam.[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]

Thanks for that wonderful show of support! :hmm:



[QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]
Ma shaa Allah--so clever![QUOTE=منوة الخيال;1528846]

Yes it was! :p



Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 03:33 PM
Sorry, I fudged the quoting thing...still learning! :embarrass Lolz!
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Na'imah

Nice! So, now you're calling me a liar? I already stated why. I don't care if you believe it or not.
Like I said only you can honestly answer that question!



Just because one "likes" a post, doesn't necessarily mean one agrees with everything stated in said post. There you go, "assuming" again. ^o)
Then what is the point of liking a post unless the opinion therein represents your own?


Cumulative! Cumulative!
OH? how many litres of do you propose there are cumulatively considering most immunizations are had during childhood and made in ped dosages.






Thanks for that wonderful show of support!
:hmm:
That was a direct quote from the noble Quran.. Islam is Allah swt favor upon you.. neither God nor I as a human being gain anything from your conversion or non conversion.





Yes it was!
:p


A self-satisfied congratulation is truly a sad state of affairs.

:w:
Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 04:04 PM
;D Cumulative, as in including environmental toxins, etc...they all add up.

Maybe God doesn't gain anything, but I'm not so sure about mankind. I would think that more people in Islam only makes the Ummah stronger and benefits us all in so many different ways. My opinion only...I'm sure you'll find a way to tear it to shreds. :hiding:

As for being self-satisfied...it was my, apparently pathetic, attempt at humor. :omg:
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Na'imah
;D Cumulative, as in including environmental toxins, etc...they all add up.
Even peanut butter will have a fatal event on a certain percentage of the population.

Maybe God doesn't gain anything, but I'm not so sure about mankind. I would think that more people in Islam only makes the Ummah stronger and benefits us all in so many different ways. My opinion only...I'm sure you'll find a way to tear it to shreds. :hiding:
We're only as strong in a chain as our weakest link.

As for being self-satisfied...it was my, apparently pathetic, attempt at humor. :omg:
OK, thank you

:w:
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
06-28-2012, 04:57 PM
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
06-28-2012, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Snowflake

We should rely upon Allah and ask Him to assist us in our times of need. The use of ruqya (supplication to Allah) is much more powerful than any medicine that is available because Allah is the only One Who can send the cure.
Oh yeah, that's why the Prophet (saw) took medicine when he needed it. He clearly didn't know that ruqya was more powerful right?

These kind of ridiculous articles try to be more religious than the religion itself. I really hope no one here is taking it seriously. It's well-intentioned stupidity masked by religious zeal and incorrect understanding of the religion that can potentially harm lots and lots of people who don't know any better.

Trust Allah, know the cure is from Him, but take the means that He has provided through contemporary medicine and science. This religion wasn't meant to isolate you, it was meant to inspire you to benefit mankind. It was the Muslims who were the top scientists, doctors and the most knowledgeable about medicine in history. Articles like these are an insult to their memory and work.

I wouldn't care if the article presented an opinion against taking vaccines -that is totally fine and is for medical specialists to discuss. But coupling that with the religion in order to make it seem like the author's position is more acceptable because of quoting some Qur'an or Hadeeth that have nothing to do with her point - that is academically dishonest and a disservice.
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2012, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
nor do I pretend Islamic scholarship whereby I make Haram what Allah swt made Halal.
This was the first post you made sis, where you implied that we are making haraam what is halaal...

since then, you have claimed falsely that we are saying immunization is haraam, in over 7 other posts of yours at least... you cannot prove that we claimed immunization was haraam - BECUASE WE NEVER SAID THAT, so what the HECK do you have a problem with? Opinion that doenst match your own? Grow up. And DO NOT ACCUSE US OF MAKING HARAM WHAT IS HALAL.

Infact, go back to the first four pages of this thread - the word haraam was not used at all - does it surprise you that you was the first one to use the word "haraam" in this thread? Next time, check yourself before you wreck yourself.

This whole debate is about personal opinion... the "WOULD YOU?" or "WOULDN'T YOU?"... pfft.

Scimi
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
This was the first post you made sis, where you implied that we are making haraam what is halaal...

since then, you have claimed falsely that we are saying immunization is haraam, in over 7 other posts of yours at least... you cannot prove that we claimed immunization was haraam - BECUASE WE NEVER SAID THAT, so what the HECK do you have a problem with? Opinion that doenst match your own? Grow up. And DO NOT ACCUSE US OF MAKING HARAM WHAT IS HALAL.

Infact, go back to the first four pages of this thread - the word haraam was not used at all - does it surprise you that you was the first one to use the word "haraam" in this thread? Next time, check yourself before you wreck yourself.

This whole debate is about personal opinion... the "WOULD YOU?" or "WOULDN'T YOU?"... pfft.

Scimi
I am trying to go to the previous pages, and both firefox and aol skip jumping either to one or 7.. in shaa Allah when the problem is fixed I'll quote you both directy, and if not I'll try to do it through my phone.

:w:
Reply

TrueStranger
06-28-2012, 07:11 PM
In Washington state there is a good portion of high and middle class Americans who decided not to vaccinate their children. And the State is currently facing a whooping cough epidemic as a result of their decisions.

Whooping cough is not a disease many Americans worry about. It's become extremely rare because of agressive vaccination efforts. But, now, for a variety of reasons, a new outbreak has emerged in Washington State, which has left doctors scrambling to contain it

Public health officials say there is nearly 1,300 cases so far this year, more than 10 times last year’s numbers.

According to a federal study of kindergarten-age children released last year, Washington State had the highest percentage of parents nationally who voluntarily exempted their children from receiving one or more vaccines, out of fear of side effects or for philosophical reasons.

http://www.pri.org/stories/health/wh...tate-9888.html
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by Snowflake
Will of Allah
We often forget that what happens in our lives comes from the Will and Power of Allah. Nothing occurs except what has been decreed by Allah. Although we do have some limited control over events, the ultimate control is with Us are its depositories, and We do not send it down except according to a known (specified) measure.” (15:21).
“Say you (o Muhammad): ‘Indeed the affairs belong wholly to Allah.’ (Qur’an 3:154)
If a child is to experience an illness, this is from the decree of Allah; and if he is to be cured from it, this is also from the decree of Allah. To rely upon humans to somehow prevent or cure the child without also trusting in Allah, is a sign of weakness in faith. Whatever good or bad happens to us we should say “Alhumdulillah” because it is from Allah and He has decreed it for some reason (either as a test or as punishment). Allah says,
“No calamity befalls, but with the leave (decision and Qadar) of Allah, and whosoever believes in Allah, He guides his heart, and Allah is the all Knower of everything.” (Qur’an 64:11).
We should rely upon Allah and ask Him to assist us in our times of need. The use of ruqya (supplication to Allah) is much more powerful than any medicine that is available because Allah is the only One Who can send the cure.
Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
The Truth Be Told Harram in many vaccines include human foetuses, gelatine from pork, alcohol, and human and animal parts. These najis (unclean), haraam ingredients are not given in a state of emergency to save life at present. It is ridiculous to introduce myriad infective agents into millions of people as a “just in case” prevention of future infection. It is very wrong that Muslim doctors have adopted a medical intervention that contains so many haraamsand harmful chemicals.
In Islam, the human body is holy. We should protect and keep it natural, pure, healthy and safe. As vaccines are neither pure nor natural, it is no wonder that science and medicine have found them to be so incredibly dangerous. A well-orchestrated pharmaceutical industry plan of scaremongering exists to create fear in parents who do not vaccinate their children. Doctors and governments have been indoctrinated and corrupted by a gigantic and incredibly powerful industry into advocating obligatory vaccination, contrary to health and human and religious rights. This has happened not to advance health, but for profit. Vaccines should not be pushed or forced on anyone.
Originally Posted by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
Do you know how many hajis would die? If so, according to whom? As far as I know, Allah has appointed a time of death for all of us. Read the other article and then watch the full video posted, then we can continue this conversation.
This is from page one alone!
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2012, 07:14 PM
SO you took the valid information that they posted citing that the ingredients are haraam and therefore assumed that they are claiming immunization is haraam? Don't put words in their mouth... that is not right!

The least you could have done (and you owe it to yourself to clarify if unsure) is to ask them if they consider the vaccines haraam, rather than accuse them of claiming they were haraam, right?

Scimi
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 07:22 PM
refer also to your post number 72 specifically the portion 'Islam and Medical science must oppose vaccination'' and then later on the bottom the case opposing it. and especially your post number 76. for now

:w:
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
SO you took the valid information that they posted citing that the ingredients are haraam and therefore assumed that they are claiming immunization is haraam? Don't put words in their mouth... that is not right!

The least you could have done (and you owe it to yourself to clarify if unsure) is to ask them if they consider the vaccines haraam, rather than accuse them of claiming they were haraam, right?
I wasn't done see the last post, and in shaa Allah if I have time and the ability I'll go through each single post as the inferences themselves are equaly damaging. Be that as it may. The sister prior posted (toxic/haram) ingredients and we have shown her that's a naturaly occuring compound in the body, so are we to also question the will of Allah for making said biochemical compounds while by same token d@mning those who use similar compounds for preventative medicine as its synthetic pathway in the body takes a known course for detoxification and extretion?
A couple of posts ago you conceded that I was pointing out something you'd not done at all, and now that evolves as posts are brought forward. You're correct in that it isn't right. I am not here to be venegeful or hurtful and that should really be a two way stream!

:w:
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2012, 07:30 PM
Those are quoted articles sponsoring similar opinions to my own, not everything is to be agreed with and they provide some interesting views which are rlelvant to the discussion at hand - but you have managed to selectively pick up on bits and pieces and lose sight of the main points we are making... it's becoming a habit. Break it!

Find me one member who has blatantly said, with their own words - that "vaccination is haraam". There isn't. I already read thru the whole thread. So your point falls mute.

Scimi
Reply

~Zaria~
06-28-2012, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
This whole debate is about personal opinion... the "WOULD YOU?" or "WOULDN'T YOU?"... pfft.

Scimi
Is it akhee?


Originally Posted by Scimitar
......all I know is, vaccinations for babies show absolutely no faith in Allah - and I have a massive problem with that.
Originally Posted by Scimitar

To think that western medicine has gotten to the stage where Pig hearts and Monkey cells are used to "fix" humans... just think:

Bukhari 7.494B:
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:
that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allahwill destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, andHe will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."


Abu Dawud, Book 32, Number 4028:
Narrated Abu Amir or Abu Malik:
AbdurRahman ibn Ghanam al-Ash'ari said: Abu Amir or Abu Malik told me--I swear by Allah another oath that he did not believe me that he heard the Apostle of Allah say: There will be among my community people who will make lawful (the use of) khazz and silk. Some of them will be transformed into apes and swine.








Scimi

The word 'haraam' may not have been used in this thread in relation to vaccines.

But certainly, it has been made to appear that those who wish to vaccinate have a weakness in their imaans.

The above ahadith has also been completely taken out of context - implying that those who vaccinate may be of the accursed group of people who are transformed into apes and swine.


These sorts of posts (and a few others) are insultive to pro-vaccinators and in a very misleading way, trying to connect Islam with this issue.


And Allah knows best.

:wa:
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2012, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
are insultive to pro-vaccinators
Surely you can do better than that Zaria. Insulted because you are pro vaccine? :D ... an opinion can make you feel insulted? I don't even know how to respond to such "petty pain posts".

My opinion, sister Zaria, is that immunization is a con. I have only ever had one immunization injection as a child and I do not get colds and flu's like others... I know two other people who escaped the immunizations because they made a kerfuffle about it, and they too do not get ill as often a=or as for as long as others without these vaccinations do.

My doctor marvels at my immune system, Alhamdulillah - so naturally, I would sponsor the opinion that immunization is a CON. And some of the evidences for which, have been provided in this thread.

You can inject your babies with porcine and monkey whatever if you like - that's up to you. I won;t think any lesser of you if you do, as that is YOUR CHOICE...

That is what this is all about - CHOICE.

Know what strikes me as odd? That you know you live in an age of deception, yet you don't know how to see that deception... alhamdulillah, Allah opened my eyes to it.

Scimi
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Is it akhee?







The word 'haraam' may not have been used in this thread in relation to vaccines.

But certainly, it has been made to appear that those who wish to vaccinate have a weakness in their imaans.

The above ahadith has also been completely taken out of context - implying that those who vaccinate may be of the accursed group of people who are transformed into apes and swine.


These sorts of posts (and a few others) are insultive to pro-vaccinators and in a very misleading way, trying to connect Islam with this issue.


And Allah knows best.

:wa:
Jazaki Allah khyran, again, I don't wish to like your post to be hurtful as it has become a common trend but you've done me a great service by combing through them as I am having computer problems especially with this forum..

:w:
Reply

Abz2000
06-28-2012, 07:48 PM
i gonna put iodine and dettol on my body before i cross the road :D ,
neva know if there's gonna be an accident, and if there is, i may be safe - although there's no guarantee.
i do know that dettol can damage the skin a bit, but hey, wot if..... :)
i should get some shin pads too just in case......

lol, actually i might not, but if i knew for certain they were safe, and they weren't made by criminals, i may have considered them.
but as it stands, i know they are.


It can cure nicotine addiction in mice. Now scientists are hoping their stop-smoking vaccine will work in humans.
Researchers at Weill Cornell Medical College in New York said they have developed a vaccine that turns the liver into a "factory" of antibodies that eat up nicotine the moment it enters the bloodstream - before it can reach the brain or the heart.
Just one dose worked for a mouse's entire lifetime.
Previous vaccines injected ready-made antibodies into the patient to elicit an immune response; those only last a few weeks and need to be delivered again and again.
Ad

"As far as we can see, the best way to treat chronic nicotine addiction from smoking is to have these Pacman-like antibodies on patrol, clearing the blood as needed before nicotine can have any biological effect," said the study's lead investigator, Dr. Ronald G. Crystal.

http://chealth.canoe.ca/channel_heal...hannel_id=2118

can u imagine how many other things it "eats up" without their even knowing?
every day scientists are finding functions and details of the body and brain they never knew about before. and because they find it works for one thing, they often miss the dangerous effects, every day medicines are pulled off the shelves because of new discoveries.

just because it has one function doesn't mean it doesn't leave any permanent scars or vulnerabilities that get passed on through the generations, and there have indeed been surveys that have found anomalies and highly possible correlations of one with another.

here's how one guy says something works, but i'm sure you'd agree that its pointless when considering the ill effects:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMhdEp3SM_w




Reply

~Zaria~
06-28-2012, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Surely you can do better than that Zaria. Insulted because you are pro vaccine? :D ... an opinion can make you feel insulted? I don't even know how to respond to such "petty pain posts".

My opinion, sister Zaria, is that immunization is a con. I have only ever had one immunization injection as a child and I do not get colds and flu's like others... I know two other people who escaped the immunizations because they made a kerfuffle about it, and they too do not get ill as often a=or as for as long as others without these vaccinations do.

My doctor marvels at my immune system, Alhamdulillah - so naturally, I would sponsor the opinion that immunization is a CON. And some of the evidences for which, have been provided in this thread.

You can inject your babies with porcine and monkey whatever if you like - that's up to you. I won;t think any lesser of you if you do, as that is YOUR CHOICE...

That is what this is all about - CHOICE.


Scimi

You asked which part of this thread implied that vaccines were made out to be haraam......and I have directed you to those.
Certainly no 'petty pain' here.

Alhamulillah brother, Allah has blessed you with a healthy body and may He always protect you.

On the flip side, I have had all my vaccines (in fact, some more than the average recommendations - because Im constantly exposed), and Alhamdulillah - I rarely get sick and no adverse effects either.


Know what strikes me as odd? That you know you live in an age of deception, yet you don't know how to see that deception... alhamdulillah, Allah opened my eyes to it.

Allah subhanawataála has opened my eyes to this age of deception......but Im not about to become paranoid or irrational.

and He has opend my eyes to the pain and suffering of disease......which I cannot deny.

Perhaps, people need to get off their laptops, and spend a few months in Infectious Disease and Microbiology units at their local hospitals.

See the man whose is comatosed from mengingococcal mengitis with your own eyes.
Then turn to his wife and child and tell THEM NOT to take the antibiotic - that has been proven in controlled trials to prevent transmission of the infection to them, by Allahs will.

Its a different story away from YouTube and CyberSpace.

:wa:
Reply

Muezzin
06-28-2012, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
i gonna put iodine and dettol on my body before i cross the road :D ,
neva know if there's gonna be an accident, and if there is, i may be safe - although there's no guarantee.
i do know that dettol can damage the skin a bit, but hey, wot if..... :)
i should get some shin pads too just in case......

lol, actually i might not, but if i knew for certain they were safe, and they weren't made by criminals, i may have considered them.
but as it stands, i know they are.
Your doctor recommends you apply Dettol to your skin? This is what you are saying? Because the people you are mocking are essentially saying 'if many qualified medical practitioners recommend something for your health, you should probably take what they have to say seriously before making a decision', as opposed to what you appear to think they are saying, which seems to be something along the lines of 'I don't know what this thing is, let me inject it into my body and see if it gives me superpowers'.
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
i gonna put iodine and dettol on my body before i cross the road :D ,
neva know if there's gonna be an accident, and if there is, i may be safe - although there's no guarantee.
i do know that dettol can damage the skin a bit, but hey, wot if..... :)
i should get some shin pads too just in case......

lol, actually i might not, but if i knew for certain they were safe, and they weren't made by criminals, i may have considered them.
but as it stands, i know they are.
Your table salt already comes iodinated, as it is essential for the production of T3 and T4. A deficiency of iodine leads to decreased production of T3 and T4, enlarges the thyroid tissue and will cause the disease known as goitre.
'Dettol' is made of tea tree oil which many of those who are into 'Natural medicine' will use for anything from acne to fungal infections.. you're welcome not to use it.. but it isn't without benefits.. so I guess we're splitting hairs on this thread?
If you live where the demographics don't suit you (say Syria) then perhaps it is indeed prudent to use more than shin pads..

:w:
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2012, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
You asked which part of this thread implied that vaccines were made out to be haraam......and I have directed you to those.
Certainly no 'petty pain' here.

Alhamulillah brother, Allah has blessed you with a healthy body and may He always protect you.

On the flip side, I have had all my vaccines (in fact, some more than the average recommendations - because Im constantly exposed), and Alhamdulillah - I rarely get sick and no adverse effects either.


Allah subhanawataála has opened my eyes to this age of deception......but Im not about to become paranoid or irrational.
Oh it's nice that you are not paranoid or irrational, it makes smiling easier doesn't it? :)

Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
and He has opend my eyes to the pain and suffering of disease......which I cannot deny.
I wonder, who can? ^o)

Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
Perhaps, people need to get off their laptops, and spend a few months in Infectious Disease and Microbiology units at their local hospitals.
I used to work for the Hospitals for Sick Children, Great Ormond Street, Russel Square, London. Microfilm Officer, I was privy to all the cases they ever had since I was in charge of archiving. NOt just that, I spent a lot of time on wards, with children too...

I still stand by my opinion. What is your point again?

Originally Posted by Muezzin
'I don't know what this thing is, let me inject it into my body and see if it gives me superpowers'.
I wonder if you did that, if it would increase your bat-mod powers :D

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
06-28-2012, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Your doctor recommends you apply Dettol to your skin? This is what you are saying? Because the people you are mocking are essentially saying 'if many qualified medical practitioners recommend something for your health, you should probably take what they have to say seriously before making a decision', as opposed to what you appear to think they are saying, which seems to be something along the lines of 'I don't know what this thing is, let me inject it into my body and see if it gives me superpowers'.
lol brother, i know what it is and what it does, it's clinically proven to fight bacteria and infections in case of cuts and grazes,
never know, it could prevent that bit of infectious substance from attacking my body if i fall on it.

you're correct that the doctor didn't recommend it,
but i would also be correct in looking at the claims of all the doctors who saw the adverse side effects from it.
and personally - sadly - i'm more inclined to pay more attention to the non official one who doesn't stand to gain after all the corruption i've seen PERSONALLY - especially in the medical industry.

i don't see a problem with people who show us it's benefits, nor with those who show us side effects.
but i definitely would not go so far as striking someone off the practitioners' list and vilifying and lying about them in the media because they presented findings to the contrary, by using engineered excuses.

btw, do you know they used to lobotomize people based on the claim that it makes them "better"?
lol shooting them in the head also makes them quiet.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
06-28-2012, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar

To think that western medicine has gotten to the stage where Pig hearts and Monkey cells are used to "fix" humans... just think:

Bukhari 7.494B:
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:
that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allahwill destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, andHe will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."


Abu Dawud, Book 32, Number 4028:
Narrated Abu Amir or Abu Malik:
AbdurRahman ibn Ghanam al-Ash'ari said: Abu Amir or Abu Malik told me--I swear by Allah another oath that he did not believe me that he heard the Apostle of Allah say: There will be among my community people who will make lawful (the use of) khazz and silk. Some of them will be transformed into apes and swine.

Scimi
Reply

Muezzin
06-28-2012, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
lol brother, i know what it is and what it does, it's clinically proven to fight bacteria and infections in case of cuts and grazes,
never know, it could prevent that bit of infectious substance from attacking my body if i fall on it.
The condescension is not necessary or constructive.
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I still stand by my opinion. What is your point again?
That those in the archives, on computers or at home aren't suffering like those ridden in a hospital beds (many from preventable dz)
:w:
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by Muraad
This made me lol.. where do you get those expressive funnies?
Reply

~Zaria~
06-28-2012, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar


I used to work for the Hospitals for Sick Children, Great Ormond Street, Russel Square, London. Microfilm Officer, I was privy to all the cases they ever had since I was in charge of archiving. NOt just that, I spent a lot of time on wards, with children too...

I still stand by my opinion. What is your point again?

Scimi

Theres absolutely no point.


You go well now akhee.


If my participation (as well as my other brothers and sisters) in this thread brought clarity to at least some members/ visitors to this thread, then Alhamdulillah, I am satisfied.


:wa:
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2012, 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
That those in the archives, on computers or at home aren't suffering like those ridden in a hospital beds (many from preventable dz)
:w:
Those in the archives did suffer... first cases of recorded cerebral palsy and other weird sounding things all documented. I read some of those files and if you think those patients didn't suffer - well... meh?

And the children I sat down next to in my lunch hours were also suffering... poor kids. But you know, there are kids in the third world who have the same issues, and no hospital, so I turn it on you and say, go to them, and witness it yourself. Humility goes two ways...

Scimi
Reply

~Zaria~
06-28-2012, 08:28 PM
:hmm:......
Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 08:28 PM
She is clearly talking about the ingredients being haram, not the vaccines themselves. Sheesh!:rolleyes:
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
06-28-2012, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
vaccinations for babies show absolutely no faith in Allah - and I have a massive problem with that.
Have you heard of this hadith in Bukhari:

The Messenger (saw) said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."

Ibn Hajr (ra) in his Fath al Bari quotes at-Tabari in explaining this hadeeth who said that this hadeeth does not stress cleanliness or impurity, but rather it stresses on how to prevent disease as a result of a fly falling into a container of liquid (bayan al-tadawi min darar al-dhubab).

Now tell me, did the Prophet (saw) show "absolutely no faith in Allah" when he taught his Companions how to prevent disease by taking action before it occurs?

Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Those in the archives did suffer... first cases of recorded cerebral palsy and other weird sounding things all documented. I read some of those files and if you think those patients didn't suffer - well... meh?

And the children I sat down next to in my lunch hours were also suffering... poor kids. But you know, there are kids in the third world who have the same issues, and no hospital, so I turn it on you and say, go to them, and witness it yourself. Humility goes two ways...

Scimi
indeed why many of us choose medicine and why many of us volunteer our time to help!

:w:
Reply

Abz2000
06-28-2012, 08:41 PM
Obama Appoints Monsanto's VP as Senior Advisor to the Commissioner FDA
Friday, 19 August 2011 08:30

'Michael Taylor was just appointed senior advisor to the commissioner of the FDA. This is the same man that was in charge of FDA policy when GMO's were allowed into the US food supply without undergoing a single test to determine their safety. He "had been Monsanto's attorney before becoming policy chief at the FDA [and then] he became Monsanto's Vice President and chief lobbyist. This month [he] became the senior advisor to the commissioner of the FDA. He is now America's food safety czar. This is no joke".'

It’s a game where lobbyists write check after check and Exxon turns record profits, while you pay the price at the pump and our planet is put at risk. That’s what happens when lobbyists set the agenda, and that’s why they won’t drown out your voices anymore when I am president of the United States of America.
barrack obama,
Britain is protecting the biggest heroin crop of all time
The Taliban had reduced the opium crop to precisely nil. I would not advocate their methods for doing this, which involved lopping bits, often vital bits, off people. The Taliban were a bunch of mad and deeply unpleasant religious fanatics. But one of the things they were vehemently against was opium.
That is an inconvenient truth that our spin has managed to obscure. Nobody has denied the sincerity of the Taliban's crazy religious zeal, and they were as unlikely to sell you heroin as a bottle of Johnnie Walker.
They stamped out the opium trade, and impoverished and drove out the drug warlords whose warring and rapacity had ruined what was left of the country after the Soviet war.
That is about the only good thing you can say about the Taliban; there are plenty of very bad things to say about them. But their suppression of the opium trade and the drug barons is undeniable fact.
Now we are occupying the country, that has changed. According to the United Nations, 2006 was the biggest opium harvest in history, smashing the previous record by 60 per cent. This year will be even bigger.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1z7ez3LqE




Feds raid Amish dairy and threaten action over raw milk sales


Farmer Dan Allgyer’s farm was raided by the same agents who paid him a visit back in February, telling him both times that they were there for an “inspection”. Just like last time, the agents drove flagrantly past “No Trespassing” and “Private Property”, this time arriving around 4:30 a.m. when Allgyer’s family was still asleep and as he was preparing to milk his cows.The group began to interrogate Allgyer, and served him a warrant claiming they had “credible evidence” that he was involved in interstate commerce involving raw milk. According to Allgyer’s personal account, upon being questioned as to why the agents were at the farm so early when the warrant clearly stated that it was valid only at “reasonable times during ordinary business hours”, one of them retorted that “ordinary business hours for agriculture start at 5 a.m.”


i personally am not against finding good things which Allah has sent our way, but with all this happening, i'll take the risk and wait til khilafah - and inshaAllah help work towards that before i willingly take any of that.
Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
That those in the archives, on computers or at home aren't suffering like those ridden in a hospital beds (many from preventable dz)
:w:
And how, pray tell, do you know that none of us suffer? How do you know that perhaps one of our children doesn't suffer, or that several or all of them suffer? I happen to have two step children who suffer tremendously. They both have kidney disease. I'm surprised you would make such a comment. :hmm:
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Na'imah
And how, pray tell, do you know that none of us suffer? How do you know that perhaps one of our children doesn't suffer, or that several or all of them suffer? I happen to have two step children who suffer tremendously. They both have kidney disease. I'm surprised you would make such a comment. :hmm:
Please follow the order of the thread and things will make better sense to you!
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2012, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Muraad
Have you heard of this hadith in Bukhari:

The Messenger (saw) said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."
Yes, I love it. Poor fly :D



Originally Posted by Muraad
Ibn Hajr (ra) in his Fath al Bari quotes at-Tabari in explaining this hadeeth who said that this hadeeth does not stress cleanliness or impurity, but rather it stresses on how to prevent disease as a result of a fly falling into a container of liquid (bayan al-tadawi min darar al-dhubab).

Now tell me, did the Prophet (saw) show "absolutely no faith in Allah" when he taught his Companions how to prevent disease by taking action before it occurs?
Prevent a disease that no one has got? or only affects a very small percentage of new born babies? Have you read the reports in the previous pages? My cousins baby didn't get immunization, she's going thru all sorts with the NHS at the moment because she refuses it... She came to the decision that she won't immunize her baby thru her own research... btw her sister is a Doctor. So hey, you know, even some Doctors are against immunization you know. And for very good reason. Please read thru the reports I have quoted in this thread and then re-post that hadeeth.

Scimi
Reply

~Zaria~
06-28-2012, 08:55 PM
May Allah (subhanawatala') protect all our anti-vacciners and their families from all types of health conditions, including those infectious.

May none be inflicted by the likes of fungal infections - e.g. Cryptococcus - a fungus that exists by the WILL of ALLAH - that is a means of testing some within His creation
..........which would require the use of Amphotericin B for cure, (by the will of Allah).......the same ingredient that has been listed as 'nasty stuff' by some.

May Allah protect them from ever requiring any medical intervention -

- be it surgery after a car accident (which would require anaesthesia consisting of a potent combination of chemicals that stops your breathing!),

- or immune suppressants for potentially life-threatening conditions such as Lupus and Myasthenia Gravis,

- or Diabetes that requires Insulin which is made "in a special non-disease-producing laboratory strain of Escherichia coli bacteria (Oh no!) and contains ingredients such as Sodium hydroxide and/or hydrochloric acid to adjust its pH.

- May Allah favour His choicest blessings on them - such that they may Never need the aid of a flawed, westernised medical system, and that all their ailments can be relieved/ cured by natural means: - whether that includes chewing on a piece of garlic, drinking spring water and eating organic food.
Alhamdulillah.

For the rest of us weak-bodied souls:

Alas - Mr Smith has contracted severe pneumococcal pneumonia and needs to be ventilated.
and Ms Kubheka is paraplegic from the TB that has affected her spine.

So much for their own natural immune systems warding off such disease.

But, Alhamdulillah for the knowledge that our Rabb has bestowed on us, and continues to bestow.

For we know that:
"There is no disease that Allah has created,except that He also has created its remedy."
Bukhari

and:

Usamah ibn Shuraik narrated:

"... 'O Allah's Messenger! Should we seek medical treatment for our illnesses?' He replied: 'Yes, you should seek medical treatment, because Allah, the Exalted, has let no disease exist without providing for its cure, except for one ailment, namely, old age'."
Tirmidhi


SubhanAllah.

It is not a single cure that can be applied to all ailments.

And certainly, medical professionals will continue around the globe to find these cures and means, to insha Allah, prevent others suffering similar fates- by the mercy of Allah.

Ameen.

:wasalamex



Reply

Na'imah
06-28-2012, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Please follow the order of the thread and things will make better sense to you!
D'uhhh, uhhh, duhhh, uuhhh, errmmm...okaaaay. Nyuck, nyuck! Doh! ;D
Reply

Muezzin
06-28-2012, 09:04 PM
Okay, can we stop mocking each other please? We can discuss matters without promoting division.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
06-28-2012, 09:14 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Prevent a disease that no one has got? or only affects a very small percentage of new born babies? Have you read the reports in the previous pages? My cousins baby didn't get immunization, she's going thru all sorts with the NHS at the moment because she refuses it... She came to the decision that she won't immunize her baby thru her own research... btw her sister is a Doctor. So hey, you know, even some Doctors are against immunization you know. And for very good reason. Please read thru the reports I have quoted in this thread and then re-post that hadeeth.

Scimi
Like I said earlier, I don't really care about the medical aspects of it - as I'm not a doctor.

My issue is with the concept of taking a preventative measure in order to prevent disease and harm. You said doing so would equal lack of faith in Allah - I showed that this was something established in our deen - that we take preventative measures in order to offset the chance of getting a disease in the future.

Now if you have a problem with the ingredients, that's a different discussion. If this is the case, then you shouldn't have brought in 'faith in Allah' as it has nothing to do with it agreeing with certain ingredients or not.
Reply

Muhaba
06-28-2012, 09:18 PM
as they say, neem hakeem khatra'i jaan neem mulla khatra'i eemaan, half doctor is a danger to life, half scholar is a danger to faith.
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Okay, can we stop mocking each other please? We can discuss matters without promoting division.
I don't understand Klingon so whatever the intent it was lost on deaf ears.
Reply

Asiyah3
06-28-2012, 09:49 PM
Thanks to vaccinations we disease doesn't exist anymore. Wal-hamdulillah.



Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
but i would also be correct in looking at the claims of all the doctors who saw the adverse side effects from it.
and personally - sadly - i'm more inclined to pay more attention to the non official one who doesn't stand to gain after all the corruption i've seen PERSONALLY - especially in the medical industry.
I have never seen a medication or vaccination or surgery that didn't come with a side effect profile and by law we're required to tell the patients of said profile at least in the U.S under OBRA 90 or the patient can stand to make alot of money. Most healthcare givers here are eager to avoid litigations.
A person who can also prove a side effect profile that wasn't visible during clinical trials but let's say phase IV can also stand to make alot of money..

Now, does your apple come with a warning? Apple seeds have cyanogenic acids.. small amounts won't kill you.. we have heart meds and patches with similar chemical compounds & similar side effect profile but I am sure the apple and the NTG won't be met with the same scrutnity since one is 'natural' and the other from 'big pharma'... I think it is absurd to focus on a negligible side effect profile without weighing both pros & cons of any vaccine/med/surgical intervention..

:w:
Reply

Abz2000
06-28-2012, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Muraad
that we take preventative measures in order to offset the chance of getting a disease in the future.
vaccines aren't normally like traditional medication, they are a suppressed version of the disease itself which are intended to get the body to fight it and record it in it's biological "database".
one problem is the fact that some of the crooks given the trust to make them very often lie about or suppress the negative side effects, especially of the preservatives - which not only prevent it from being "alive" or rotting, but also cause harm to the body,
sort of like putting loads of chlorine or toilet cleaner in ur drinking water to kill germs. some being highly toxic and leaving long term detrimental side effects - such as mercury - about which they initially lied despite the outcry.
doctors told patients it was totally safe without having tests themselves.
and it was later found to be true - that mercury kills brain tissue.

another stupid thing they did was "save money" by giving multiple shots of different diseases to the same child at the same time.
leaving the body often unable to differentiate between the difference, whether it was all one disease, or totally separate unrelated diseases.

anyone who knows the very basics of how the immune system works will be able to tell you that the body records it's own reactions and which reaction and release of agents worked to combat it. and preserves that data for future encounters.
and if it is made to fight several totally alien diseases at one and the same time - it can assume that they are not different diseases but one attack.
and that naturally the body is most likely to do the same thing as before and release the same agents as before.

so if hit by a certain specific virus in a concentrated amount, it can be confused rather than informed.

although this is a very rough explanation of differing scenarios, there are thousands of doctors out there who agree with vaccines yet adamantly cry out regarding the "all-in-one" doses from which pharmaceutical companies benefit,
the government saves, doctors get paid less, and the public can pass on a warped database to their future generations.

anyway, may Allah give us all the ability to look at things critically rather than accepting them straight off when they come from fasiq sources.

here's a nutcase woman claiming mercury in the drinking water is good for people,
and another man claiming lithium is good for people because it turned out there were less suicides in a test area where people had lithium in their local water.
well, it also indicates that the people may have become apathetic to all their troubles in life sort of like brain-dead zombies.
rather than look into the social / financial factors and injustices etc, they see drugging them with battery acid as a solution.
that is amazing.
Reply

Muhaba
06-28-2012, 09:56 PM
Thanks to Allah Who gave man the power and ability to make vaccines and Who made his attempts successful and Who made the vaccines work. Nothing happens unless Allah wills it to happen.
Reply

جوري
06-28-2012, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
which not only prevent it from being "alive" or rotting, but also cause harm to the body,
We actually have two types of vaccines, live attenuated and killed. live attenuated can be dangerous in immune compromised individuals and pregnant women, as such we prefer to give them (specifically to AIDS and cancer patients and in the case of Rubella) to pregnant women three months prior to pregnancy to avoid conversion. For AIDS we wait until the CD count goes up or before it goes down to administer it and some schools of thought are of the mind that we should give anyway no matter what the count for even limited immunity is better than no immunity even with the small risk of conversion.
The preservatives that you have in mind like thimerosal which is an organomercury is removed from vaccines and what we have currently on the market is extensively tested and very safe.
Like I said earlier even peanut butter and apples will come with fatalities. It is a matter of risk vs. benefit. Most of society weigh that in their mind and decide that it is better than laying in a hospital bed with various ailments, or coma or death..

:w:
Reply

Abz2000
06-28-2012, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by WRITER
Thanks to Allah Who gave man the power and ability to make vaccines and Who made his attempts successful and Who made the vaccines work. Nothing happens unless Allah wills it to happen.
sister, it's not a black and white issue,
there are many factors involved, including who is making them, who is profiting from it, and what the side effects are,
let me give you a couple of extreme examples:
i could tell you that i have a drug which would almost wipe out violent crime and anger related incidents,
everyone on the planet takes prozac, would you accept that? - i wouldn't.
i could tell you i could get rid of aids and every other illness on the planet, will you take the shot?
all that it would require is that 8 billion human beings took a bullet to the head?
it is true that there would be no more illness, and i could even provide you with statistics to back that up - it still wouldn't be accepted, because common sense tells you that all of humanity dying isn't a price worth paying for the riddance of disease.
so it's definitely not a black and white issue when you take everything else into consideration.
again, i have never said that vaccines don't work, but the suppressed side effects, and especially the people who make it certainly raises questions in the mind of someone who is awake to some of the crazy things they do.

again, some of the influential people pushing them are also the ones who are pushing for depopulation, and some have even been caught purposefully injecting people with syphilis with vaccines, and many haven't been caught, there are also many things we don't know and wont know for decades to come - including the effects on fertility and general well being - including genetics.

The fact that living things inherit traits from their parents has been used since prehistoric times to improve crop plants and animals through selective breeding. However, the modern science of genetics, which seeks to understand the process of inheritance, only began with the work of Gregor Mendel in the mid-19th century

we cannot just say it works for one specific thing so we should hang anyone who shows us the adverse effects, when we know it is a learning curve and not a divine command from the knower of the unseen.

i may not take vaccines, but i do sometimes do weird things like buy fruits off a stall and walk down the street eating them without washing, or when i go abroad buy stir fried chick peas off a street vendor who's wrapped it in some kid's used exam paper.
and my older brother will go loony, what are you doing, your gonna die!!!
i tell them you may as well go to restaurants that llok like operating theaters where they wear white lab coats, wash everything in antiseptic and present them in vacuum flasks.
anyone can tell you that those things boost the immune system (as long as they don't die of it lol).
yet they are usually the first to fall ill when exposed to such situations.
God knows, but He gave us a wonderful world with balances and choices, sometimes you die anyway, why be a domesticated sterile pet when you can be a wild free one?
we all die.

and to balance out the hadith regarding medicine, i would just like to add another to remove any misconceptions that it might be some sort of blanket command:

(742) Narrated Ibn 'Abbas and 'Aisha: Abu Bakr kissed (the forehead of) the Prophet when he was dead. 'Aisha added: We put medicine in one side of his mouth but he started waving us not to insert the medicine into his mouth. We said, "He dislikes the medicine as a patient usually does." But when he came to his senses he said, "Did I not forbid you to put medicine (by force) in the side of my mouth?" We said, "We thought it was just because a patient usually dislikes medicine." He said, "None of those who are in the house but will be forced to take medicine in the side of his mouth while I am watching, except Al-'Abbas, for he had not witnessed your deed." (Al Bukhari - Book #71, Hadith #610)
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Muhammad
06-28-2012, 11:46 PM
:sl:

As brother Muraad mentioned above, I think we have mixed a few different issues which may be causing confusion:

1. From a medical point of view, whether vaccines are proven to cause more good than harm

2. From an Islamic point of view, whether taking vaccines goes against principles such as tawakkul

3. Whether certain vaccines are Halal due to questionable ingredients


I think people have presented arguments for the various points of view, and now it would be better to end the thread. If anybody wishes to share any remaining important information on this thread, then please PM me.

Let us remember that whilst we may view issues like this differently, we must never allow shaytan to create disunity amongst us. May Allaah (swt) bless us with understanding of His religion and keep us united in this world and the hereafter, Aameen.

Thread closed.
Reply

Muhammad
06-28-2012, 11:46 PM
:sl:

Brother Scimitar came across the following documentary which he feels exposes the truths within the vaccination industry, and wanted to share it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8nrdybZZzA


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