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anonymous
07-19-2012, 10:16 PM
Brothers and sisters, would you marry such a woman who thinks that some scholars are of opinion that niqab is not necessary? So if you tell her that you'd hope that your wife starts wearing one sooner or later, the potential woman has problems with that?

Moreover, what if she tells you this? "All you have to offer is a life a righteousness. So does a lot of men right here , nearer to my home.Why do I need to travel all the way to another place to seek a life of righteousness."

Would you still marry such a woman?

I am wondering if she does not want a life of righteousness, then what the heck she wants ....? Can I assume from her reply that she does not have a religion in her heart even though she externally shows it by praying 5 times a day etc. Following advice of Prophet, I should run away from her
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ardianto
07-20-2012, 06:30 PM
Assalamu'alaikum

A woman came to my sister in-law friend and told her that there's a man who was looking for a wife, with condition, will wear niqab. She asked my sis in-law friend, if she's interested and agree to wear niqab, she would told him. But my sis in-law friend said, she doesn't want to wear niqab. And that man never came to my sis in-law friend.

Is niqab fard?. There are two opinions. One say "yes", another say "no". The man in that true story hold opinion that niqab is fard, that's why he was looking for a woman who ready to wear niqab, or already wear niqab. But he didn't propose marriage to women who hold another opinion, because he knew, there are two opinion about niqab.

So bro, why don't you follow what that man has done, propose marriage only to a woman who ready to wear niqab, or already wear niqab. Do not force a woman who follow another opinion to wear niqab.

What you should do to the women who mentioned in your post? just leave her and try to find another woman who ready to wear niqab, or already wear niqab.
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Scimitar
07-20-2012, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Brothers and sisters, would you marry such a woman who thinks that some scholars are of opinion that niqab is not necessary? So if you tell her that you'd hope that your wife starts wearing one sooner or later, the potential woman has problems with that?

Moreover, what if she tells you this? "All you have to offer is a life a righteousness. So does a lot of men right here , nearer to my home.Why do I need to travel all the way to another place to seek a life of righteousness."

Would you still marry such a woman?

I am wondering if she does not want a life of righteousness, then what the heck she wants ....? Can I assume from her reply that she does
...get away, while you can.

Scimi
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Alpha Dude
07-20-2012, 07:19 PM
All you have to offer is a life a righteousness. So does a lot of men right here , nearer to my home.Why do I need to travel all the way to another place to seek a life of righteousness."
This remark gives an insight into her world view. She seems to have a superficial outlook on religion. I wouldn't marry such a person.

The fact that she is saying this to you makes it appear as though you have been persuing her strongly? I mean a woman doesn't just say that to a guy the first time he proposes right (if she did, then that's a definite red flag)?
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Scimitar
07-20-2012, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
The fact that she is saying this to you makes it appear as though you have been persuing her strongly?
Yes, it seems you let her wear the trousers early on... never a good move. I still got my chook jumping and screaming "how high i gotta jump Scimi?"... that's how you wanna play it... keep the girls guessing, coz if you don't - they'll keep you guessing. Just like you are now...

...my advice? Cut your losses and find another chook... and this time, WEAR THE PANTS.

Scimi
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جوري
07-20-2012, 07:46 PM
This doesn't need to come down to some war of the sexes.. I don't think we're meant to oneup the other person it's then not a lifelong partnership is it?
You seem to want different things in life and are in different places it doesn't mean you're a weak person or she's some sort of shrew.. I just don't think she's the one for you but ultimately only you can answer that Q. Marriage is about sacrifices from both parties but if you're the one making all the concessions you won't be happy sane goes also if you're only making demands to be met.
In shaa Allah you'll find the one for you maybe I am absurdly romantic in this day and age but I really do believe Allah swt has a perfect fit for each and everyone of us. If you decide to make something fit and it doesn't fall easy then you need to keep looking.
In sha Allah use this month to ask Allah swt to guide you to what he will also love and chooses!

Fi Aman illah
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anonymous
07-20-2012, 08:50 PM
Alpha:
yes, I've been pursuing her for a while. We have been communicating via means that could be as halaal as possible. The thing is I really like this girl for her other qualities but I think I should come back to ground from cloud 9 and see that she is lacking in religion cuz after all Abu Jahal was an amazing poet/orator and a charming looking man too.

Scimi: Could you please translate your second message in English for me bro? I really did not understand it. You mean I should not be sincere in telling her that I want to marry her? And what does hving PANTs on means?
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anonymous
07-20-2012, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by منوة الخيال
This doesn't need to come down to some war of the sexes.. I don't think we're meant to oneup the other person it's then not a lifelong partnership is it?
You seem to want different things in life and are in different places it doesn't mean you're a weak person or she's some sort of shrew.. I just don't think she's the one for you but ultimately only you can answer that Q. Marriage is about sacrifices from both parties but if you're the one making all the concessions you won't be happy sane goes also if you're only making demands to be met.
In shaa Allah you'll find the one for you maybe I am absurdly romantic in this day and age but I really do believe Allah swt has a perfect fit for each and everyone of us. If you decide to make something fit and it doesn't fall easy then you need to keep looking.
In sha Allah use this month to ask Allah swt to guide you to what he will also love and chooses!

Fi Aman illah
I wish it was as simple as that. I am not sexist but this experience has taught me a great deal about irrationality of women in general in relationships. I do not mean to hurt you or other sisters here, but the hurt I'v gone through, only I know that.
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tigerkhan
07-20-2012, 08:59 PM
:sl:
well where i agree with alpha dude, i say human being is a complex machine and u cant just understand someone in all her atributes toward life while sitting on laptop and chating. so its difficult to say some thing here about someone personality by only her one statment. seems a bit judgemental.
but since u ask if whether we marry or not such a women, so my answer is no. reason bcz as alpha dude said u both r discusing there about marrige and she seems to be very clear in her wording, which is absolutely not my choice.
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جوري
07-20-2012, 09:01 PM
I am not hurt by your comment- our experiences shape our views of others and the world ..
In shaa Allah it will get better for you..
:w:
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anonymous
07-20-2012, 09:16 PM
Thanks ^^.

I am feeling really inadequate in this department. Feeling that how could I let her take the reign and dispose off someone as she pleases after showing interest initially and then attacking everything I stand for in terms of my beliefs and worldviews. Its Ramaadaaan yet these ill feelings are erupting from within.
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ardianto
07-20-2012, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
The thing is I really like this girl for her other qualities but I think I should come back to ground from cloud 9 and see that she is lacking in religion cuz after all Abu Jahal was an amazing poet/orator and a charming looking man too.
She doesn't expect Abu Jahal. She expect a good Muslim who can be a good husband, not only good Muslim who expert in giving Islamic lecture but do not know how to be a husband.

Originally Posted by anonymous
Moreover, what if she tells you this? "All you have to offer is a life a righteousness. So does a lot of men right here , nearer to my home.Why do I need to travel all the way to another place to seek a life of righteousness."
What she meant is, if only righteous, there are righteous men near her who want to marry her. Like I've said, she expect a good Muslim who can be a good husband.


Do you know bro? there are many women who know Islam better than men, there are many women who pious more than men.
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tigerkhan
07-20-2012, 09:35 PM
:sl:
brother me too made an account on purematrimony but i think it will not work. bcz its v.difficult on marraige sites that u got whole true pic of person u r talking or chatting. or just by discussing whether she blv in polygamy, niqab and blah blah u can understand her. ya i agree atleast u can get some pic of her motives in life and if its matches you, get ready for little (or maybe more lol) compromises bcz she will not be exactly as u think nor you would be exactly she think. so both have to compromise but since the direction, purpose or motive in life is same u can go further. like if a person has same destination as u, u can walk with him even if both have diff speed (both can compromise and adjust) but if someone is moving in other direction, u cant even u compromise alot unless u too chage ur direction and move with him.
so first i dont recomend marrige site (if u u using) for marrige. better way is through family, relative, community, masjid. if u have only choice of website, then see ur prioirities and plan and if someone seems to have same, go for it keeping in mind that u have to sacrifice alot in case she has bit diffrent speed as u.
wish u the best.
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anonymous
07-20-2012, 09:45 PM
tigerkhan, you are right bro. but this was not from matrimonial site. she is friend of my friend's wife. But yes, our communication mostly was via net.

I am feeling lost atm, I wish I was a homosexual and that it was not a sin.
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tigerkhan
07-20-2012, 10:50 PM
:sl:
dear bro dont be so down...i know that very serious issue and stress a person alot, but we r muslims and we blv and trust in Allah SWT who is Al hakeem (with wisdom) and love us more tha 70 mothers. so just be hopeful to HIM. blv me even me sometime feel so depressed but alhumduliah Allah SWT has always shown His mercy where i have no hope for solution.
So even "if" u r leaving her, its just for sake of Allah SWt and importance of deen and commadment u have in ur heart. surely Allah SWt will bless u with much more better for this sacrifice insh.
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Alpha Dude
07-20-2012, 10:56 PM
All you have to offer is a life a righteousness. So does a lot of men right here , nearer to my home.Why do I need to travel all the way to another place to seek a life of righteousness."
Without knowing the context of this it is difficult to make any kind of judgement. Initially, I assumed the implication of her words was that she doesn't look for religiosity or does not consider it of importance.

However, it could also mean that you are persuing her but she, alongside a religious husband, wants someone who is financially standing on his own feet or someone who is good looking or someone who has good personality etc. I.e. other halal permissible qualities that she might want in a husband that you don't match and in that context, her statement is not all that wrong.

I am feeling lost atm, I wish I was a homosexual and that it was not a sin.
I don't see why you would want to turn gay over this though. That's a foolish thought. Seek refuge in Allah from the shaytan.
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anonymous
07-20-2012, 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Without knowing the context of this it is difficult to make any kind of judgement. Initially, I assumed the implication of her words was that she doesn't look for religiosity or does not consider it of importance.

However, it could also mean that you are persuing her but she, alongside a religious husband, wants someone who is financially standing on his own feet or someone who is good looking or someone who has good personality etc. I.e. other halal permissible qualities that she might want in a husband that you don't match and in that context, her statement is not all that wrong.


I don't see why you would want to turn gay over this though. That's a foolish thought. Seek refuge in Allah from the shaytan.
Yes, I wont be arrogant enough to claim I am perfect. She did tell me that I am not "caring" enough. I think it is in that context she said that quote. I dont blame her for expecting a caring partner.

What is making me angry is I cannot think of something else that I could have done which could show I am "caring" enough. The fault is with my mentality I guess. And to realize that the fault is within me is the toughest thing to accept and to live with.

But I am being lambasted for expecting a wife with a niqab, she tells me its not obligatory according to scholars she follows and that I am not caring enough to accept her "interpretation" of it (even though I said I wont force niqab) ... if everyone can think that nothing is obligatory ... what purpose is deen for???
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anonymous
07-20-2012, 11:21 PM
Secondly, that quote however does give the impression that living a righteous life is not a big deal for her ... hwo can be so sure that the men around her would be able to give her the religious life that she could have ad with me? how can she be so arrogant and confident about it?
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anonymous
07-20-2012, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by tigerkhan
:sl:
dear bro dont be so down...i know that very serious issue and stress a person alot, but we r muslims and we blv and trust in Allah SWT who is Al hakeem (with wisdom) and love us more tha 70 mothers. so just be hopeful to HIM. blv me even me sometime feel so depressed but alhumduliah Allah SWT has always shown His mercy where i have no hope for solution.
So even "if" u r leaving her, its just for sake of Allah SWt and importance of deen and commadment u have in ur heart. surely Allah SWt will bless u with much more better for this sacrifice insh.
w salam

thanks for those beautiful words bro. I hope I find some peace of mind ....

many a poets have written ghazals about the unrequited love. Now I know why.
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Hamza Asadullah
07-21-2012, 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Yes, I wont be arrogant enough to claim I am perfect. She did tell me that I am not "caring" enough. I think it is in that context she said that quote. I dont blame her for expecting a caring partner.

What is making me angry is I cannot think of something else that I could have done which could show I am "caring" enough. The fault is with my mentality I guess. And to realize that the fault is within me is the toughest thing to accept and to live with.

But I am being lambasted for expecting a wife with a niqab, she tells me its not obligatory according to scholars she follows and that I am not caring enough to accept her "interpretation" of it (even though I said I wont force niqab) ... if everyone can think that nothing is obligatory ... what purpose is deen for???
:sl:

So i assume that you have known her for a while and that is why you are reacting in such a way towards her stance. May i ask how you met and how long you have known her for and are you in a relationship with her?
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-21-2012, 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Brothers and sisters, would you marry such a woman who thinks that some scholars are of opinion that niqab is not necessary? So if you tell her that you'd hope that your wife starts wearing one sooner or later, the potential woman has problems with that?
I don't see a problem with that - that's a very established opinion and if she believes that is correct, no problem. It's not like she's saying Hijab isn't necessary. It's totally her choice and the husband doesn't have the right to force it on her.


Moreover, what if she tells you this? "All you have to offer is a life a righteousness. So does a lot of men right here , nearer to my home.Why do I need to travel all the way to another place to seek a life of righteousness."
Again, this is something that has to do with her situation. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. You just need to figure out if this is something you can live with.

Would you still marry such a woman?

I am wondering if she does not want a life of righteousness, then what the heck she wants ....? Can I assume from her reply that she does not have a religion in her heart even though she externally shows it by praying 5 times a day etc. Following advice of Prophet, I should run away from her
Nope you can't assume that as the heart is not a place for you to judge. These are all secondary matters in my opinion. Honestly, religious girls are a dime a dozen. They pray, they fast, they love Allah and His Messenger (saw) and are good people who want to obey Allah and His Messenger (Saw) and want to work for Paradise. But they may differ on their understanding and level of imaan. You need to figure out if this person matches what you consider religious - and if she doesn't match what you consider religious, it doesn't mean she doesn't have religion in her heart - that's not your place to say. All it means is that you two have different levels and it is up to you two to figure out whether you can make it work.

What is more important, and this is something all bachelors, especially the more religiously inclined, tend to forget is whether she as a person is compatible with you as a person. Religion is easy to figure out - someone is either on the deen or not and people are off different levels. But just because someone is on the deen does not mean they are compatible with you as a person and with who you are. So I'd advice you, if she is someone who is practicing and it is apparent in her actions then be satisfied with it. If you are not, because you disagree with her or you want something else, then move on. But overall, if she is practicing, then focus more on her character and who she is as a person because when you're in an argument, what will matter is character. Her character is what you will deal with during times of hardship and anger and also in times of good.
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anonymous
07-21-2012, 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by Muraad
What is more important, and this is something all bachelors, especially the more religiously inclined, tend to forget is whether she as a person is compatible with you as a person. Religion is easy to figure out - someone is either on the deen or not and people are off different levels. But just because someone is on the deen does not mean they are compatible with you as a person and with who you are. So I'd advice you, if she is someone who is practicing and it is apparent in her actions then be satisfied with it. If you are not, because you disagree with her or you want something else, then move on. But overall, if she is practicing, then focus more on her character and who she is as a person because when you're in an argument, what will matter is character. Her character is what you will deal with during times of hardship and anger and also in times of good.
So brother, by character, are you referring to properties such as maturity, open mindedness, and tolerance?

Like for example right now if she cant even accept me for having a different opinion about niqab and based on this and some other things on which I criticized her (I thought I did it with hikmah but apparently not!), she has come to conclusion that I am "uncaring," I guess it just means her character does not have those developed qualities one would expect in one's partner ??

I think I agree with your level of emaan part, she might pray 5 prayers and perform all sunnah pryers and might remember all the duas ... yet it does not mean she has taqwa, God-consciousness, especially when it comes to directing one's whole life according to the deen rather than picking and choosing parts of deen and putting them in one's busy life as busy person based on whims and desires.

I dont know.
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anonymous
07-21-2012, 02:29 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
:sl:

So i assume that you have known her for a while and that is why you are reacting in such a way towards her stance. May i ask how you met and how long you have known her for and are you in a relationship with her?
Walaikum assalam bro,

Yes I've been considering this person for marriage for quite some time, and hence the nature of the bubbling and erupting feelings today! I met her via my friend's wife. No we are not in any physical relationship, I tried to keep it as halal as possible, but of course I had my emotions invested in this! Like why would I spend hours writing replies to her questions :s or read some stupid poem she wrote and asked me to read.
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TrueStranger
07-21-2012, 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Brothers and sisters, would you marry such a woman who thinks that some scholars are of opinion that niqab is not necessary? So if you tell her that you'd hope that your wife starts wearing one sooner or later, the potential woman has problems with that?
:sl:

Ramadan Mubarak!!!

Brother, some respectable scholars are of the opinion that the Niqaab is not Fard. So in that case she is not completely wrong. You are equally correct to believe that the Niqaab is fard, since there are also a group of respectable scholars that say the Niqaab is fard. In this situation neither of you are Islamically wrong.

Moreover, what if she tells you this? "All you have to offer is a life a righteousness. So does a lot of men right here , nearer to my home.Why do I need to travel all the way to another place to seek a life of righteousness."
Every time I read this statement its meaning changes. I don't know if you two live in two different states/countries, but I assumed that she did not want to travel to another place for some who is currently only offering her righteousness, since there are men who are righteous near to where she lives. I might be wrong. It's best to talk to her and ask her if she could clarify her statement and if she has doubts about moving away. And what other qualities besides righteousness she is looking for. Bro, do keep in mind both of you have your own expectations and if something is meant to go elsewhere, it will never come your way, but if it is yours by destiny, from you it cannot flee.

I always remind myself that life provides two simple answers when it comes to most questions pertaining our personal affairs... A yes or a no.....


Would you still marry such a woman?
That is for you to decide, but it's best to come to an answer after giving yourself enough time to judge her statements without the involvement of emotions.

Ramadan is upon us, take advantage of it and whatever you do, DO NOT DESPAIR OF THE MERCY OF ALLAH!!.

May Allah make it easy for you!
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Hamza Asadullah
07-21-2012, 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Walaikum assalam bro,

Yes I've been considering this person for marriage for quite some time, and hence the nature of the bubbling and erupting feelings today! I met her via my friend's wife. No we are not in any physical relationship, I tried to keep it as halal as possible, but of course I had my emotions invested in this! Like why would I spend hours writing replies to her questions :s or read some stupid poem she wrote and asked me to read.
:wa:

Brother it is clear that the both of you differ in your stances and that may cause problems and isues in the future especially if you were to pursue the niqaab issue. She has a right not to want to wear it and you have a right to marry someone who wants to wear it, so if it does mean that much to you then find someone who does want to wear it. It is better if you went through her Mahram from now on as that would avoid shaythan being third party to your conversations as that maybe one of the reasons why you are arguing already. Or it maybe that the both of you want different things.

Do not think to yourself that just because you have been talking to her for a while that you are now bound and have to marry her. Only pursue things with her if you think she will be good for your deen and that you will get on with her with regards to her characteristics matching with yours. It is not necesserily a bad thing to have disagreements and arguments but if you need to establish whether she wants the same things that are important to you. If not then it is not the end of the world for Allah has someone better in store for you.

So make sincere isthikhara and leave your decision with Allah and whatever is best will happen for you. But do not waste a second of this precious month stressing over this as whatever is best will happen for you as long as you go about things in the right way.

May Allah do what is best for you. Ameen
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anonymous
07-21-2012, 02:49 AM
^^ jazakAllah for the advice sis.

Yes, we live in different countries. My friend introduced me to her when i visited him. She told me she does not want to move really but she would if I was "worth it?" Now she wants to judge if I am worth it but I evaluate her if she is worth it for marriage, she finds it as being "uncaring" of me. I am really exhausted of being used as a washroom toilet paper, really. :(

Maybe its a sign from Allah! Tonight is the first fast here, and my Lord willed this trial upon me today! Must be a sign of things coming.
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anonymous
07-21-2012, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
:wa:

Brother it is clear that the both of you differ in your stances and that may cause problems and isues in the future especially if you were to pursue the niqaab issue. She has a right not to want to wear it and you have a right to marry someone who wants to wear it, so if it does mean that much to you then find someone who does want to wear it. It is better if you went through her Mahram from now on as that would avoid shaythan being third party to your conversations as that maybe one of the reasons why you are arguing already. Or it maybe that the both of you want different things.

Do not think to yourself that just because you have been talking to her for a while that you are now bound and have to marry her. Only pursue things with her if you think she will be good for your deen and that you will get on with her with regards to her characteristics matching with yours. It is not necesserily a bad thing to have disagreements and arguments but if you need to establish whether she wants the same things that are important to you. If not then it is not the end of the world for Allah has someone better in store for you.

So make sincere isthikhara and leave your decision with Allah and whatever is best will happen for you. But do not waste a second of this precious month stressing over this as whatever is best will happen for you as long as you go about things in the right way.

May Allah do what is best for you. Ameen
jazakAllah for the advice bro.

I was attracted to her because of some qualities (which I wont go into), which I did not find in other women I've talked to about marriage in the past. So I got really involved in this ....

Logically, I am willing to move on to better things for myself, so that at least she learns that I was not begging her to get married to me. But the problem is that my stupid heart is not letting go of these things. Its stuck. I believe that Allah swt has someone thing better in store for me, but it wont be this same person right ... my heart keeps on telling me that.

Bro are there any duas to silence our hearts forever so that only our mind remains? Life would be less painful that way.

salam, thanks for that beautiful advice.
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Hamza Asadullah
07-21-2012, 03:12 AM
Originally Posted by anonymous
jazakAllah for the advice bro.

I was attracted to her because of some qualities (which I wont go into), which I did not find in other women I've talked to about marriage in the past. So I got really involved in this ....

Logically, I am willing to move on to better things for myself, so that at least she learns that I was not begging her to get married to me. But the problem is that my stupid heart is not letting go of these things. Its stuck. I believe that Allah swt has someone thing better in store for me, but it wont be this same person right ... my heart keeps on telling me that.

Bro are there any duas to silence our hearts forever so that only our mind remains? Life would be less painful that way.

salam, thanks for that beautiful advice.
Brother the danger with getting to know someone for a while alone before marriage is that one becomes attached to them and that is when things go wrong becase shaythan becomes third party to such interactions. Now you have fallen for her and developed feelings for her and this certainly has had a detrimental affect on you because it has blinded you in certain ways in that you cannot see certain things that you would see if you were not attached to her or did not have feelings for her. So your major mistake was developing such feelings and this is something you must take action on immediately to put a stop to and the best way to do that is to involve her mahram and move quickly with a decision on this.

Do not waste anymore time having silly arguments at this stage. Establish what you really want and if she wants different things then clearly there is not a match there. If there are conflicts at this stage let me tell you brother it usually does not get any easier. So maybe this is a sign for you to wake up and realise that this is not going anywhere and that you need to move on. So stop having conversations with her alone and ask of Allah sincerely to do what is right for you and put your trust in llah and whatever is best will happen for you inshallah.
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Snowflake
07-21-2012, 03:29 AM
If a husband asks his wife/potential wife to observe niqab, then that's a matter of gheerah for him.
He does not want men looking at his wife with lust. So forgive me, but a woman should understand this. I don't mean tio say that the woman who refuses to obey her husband in this matter is crooked in any way, but that the one who shows sensitivity to her husband's protective jealousy (despite differing on the matter) is the one whose husband's will be truly pleased with her and find tranquility with her in marriage. Seeing other men looking at your wife with lust is enough to make some men's blood boil. A wife should protect her husband's feelings in this matter. If she can't do this for you, when it means so much to you and is of no loss to her, then ask yourself if this is the kind of woman you want to spend your life with.


“And among His Signs is this that He created for you spouses of your own kind, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy for one another: verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.” (Quran 30:21)
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anonymous
07-21-2012, 04:22 AM
sis snowflake: wow, amazing perspective. I should start thinking that maybe she does not deserve to marry me, that is the only way I can gather courage and develop self-esteem to move on!

Brother hamza: you are right ... attachments of hearts are painful. I am gonna see if some beta blockers can relieve the heartache.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-21-2012, 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by anonymous
So brother, by character, are you referring to properties such as maturity, open mindedness, and tolerance?
No I'm referring to personality - does her personality mesh with yours?

Like for example right now if she cant even accept me for having a different opinion about niqab and based on this and some other things on which I criticized her (I thought I did it with hikmah but apparently not!), she has come to conclusion that I am "uncaring,"
I don't think either of you are accepting the other!

Also, you really aren't in a position to criticize her as you're just a potential suitor. And a lot of times what we consider to be "hikmah" actually comes off very judgmental. You have to understand that what you're going to get in marriage no matter how good the person is, is a flawed individual with their own past, own understandings, and own flaws. You're not there to change the person to what you want - you're there to grow with them together.

To be honest, if you are criticizing her before marriage where you really don't know the person that much, then she does have a point when she says 'uncaring'. I can understand where she's coming from.

I guess it just means her character does not have those developed qualities one would expect in one's partner ??
Not necessarily. All it means is that you two are on two different levels.

I think I agree with your level of emaan part, she might pray 5 prayers and perform all sunnah pryers and might remember all the duas ... yet it does not mean she has taqwa, God-consciousness, especially when it comes to directing one's whole life according to the deen rather than picking and choosing parts of deen and putting them in one's busy life as busy person based on whims and desires.
That's not what I meant at all. When I said on the deen, I included taqwa and all the inner aspects of the deen as well. You are coming off to me as quite judgmental of her - and I don't think that's fair. If you feel like who she is is not compatible with who you are, then you need to make a decision to move on.

Also, do consider the part that you yourself are not ready to get married yet. You said this in reply to someone else:

or read some stupid poem she wrote and asked me to read.
How can you consider something a potential wife considers important as something 'stupid'? This attitude tells me that you're not ready to get into a relationship with someone because you're not willing to give them the respect they deserve by giving importance to what they give importance. It tells me you don't consider her feelings and that you don't give weight to what she wants. Marriage is a give and take thing and if this is how low you consider what is important to someone you're 'emotionally invested in' - believe me when I tell you that you're not ready to get married yet.
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TrueStranger
07-21-2012, 05:06 AM
Originally Posted by anonymous
sis snowflake: wow, amazing perspective. I should start thinking that maybe she does not deserve to marry me, that is the only way I can gather courage and develop self-esteem to move on!

Brother hamza: you are right ... attachments of hearts are painful. I am gonna see if some beta blockers can relieve the heartache.
It's one thing to have disagreements and another thing to have your self-esteem dragged down. I wouldn't advice anyone to be around someone that let's them question their own value. Ramadan is here, and both of you should focus on your faith and give yourselves enough time to revaluate your compatibility.

Walahi, the medicine has already been prescribed for you.

O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed upon you as it was prescribed on those before you so that you may learn self-restraint [2:183]
Take advantage of this month and learn how to restrain your emotions brother. Again, May Allah make it easy for both of you.
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anonymous
07-21-2012, 05:30 AM
Originally Posted by Muraad
No I'm referring to personality - does her personality mesh with yours?



I don't think either of you are accepting the other!

Also, you really aren't in a position to criticize her as you're just a potential suitor. And a lot of times what we consider to be "hikmah" actually comes off very judgmental. You have to understand that what you're going to get in marriage no matter how good the person is, is a flawed individual with their own past, own understandings, and own flaws. You're not there to change the person to what you want - you're there to grow with them together.

To be honest, if you are criticizing her before marriage where you really don't know the person that much, then she does have a point when she says 'uncaring'. I can understand where she's coming from.



Not necessarily. All it means is that you two are on two different levels.



That's not what I meant at all. When I said on the deen, I included taqwa and all the inner aspects of the deen as well. You are coming off to me as quite judgmental of her - and I don't think that's fair. If you feel like who she is is not compatible with who you are, then you need to make a decision to move on.

Also, do consider the part that you yourself are not ready to get married yet. You said this in reply to someone else:



How can you consider something a potential wife considers important as something 'stupid'? This attitude tells me that you're not ready to get into a relationship with someone because you're not willing to give them the respect they deserve by giving importance to what they give importance. It tells me you don't consider her feelings and that you don't give weight to what she wants. Marriage is a give and take thing and if this is how low you consider what is important to someone you're 'emotionally invested in' - believe me when I tell you that you're not ready to get married yet.
Thanks for your appreciative reply.

I guess if I was criticizing her already for things that I dont agree with, rationally speaking I guess shes not the person for me.

As for poem, trust me, I never considered it stupid when I was asked to read it. I only consider it stupid now when I've been put into agony. You should see the difference, brother.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-21-2012, 11:52 AM
whoah bro whoah !


I think from reading every single post on this thread that you've fallen head first into a deep hole lol.


time to climb out and breathe again bro, Allah knows whats best for his slaves, pray - fast - endure each day obeying Allah and trust me, Allah will give you whats better, he knows best, his prepared the best ... you just have to step up to it :D
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
07-21-2012, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Thanks for your appreciative reply.

I guess if I was criticizing her already for things that I dont agree with, rationally speaking I guess shes not the person for me.
You'll never find someone who agrees with you in everything. You need to figure out whether the disagreement between you two is something you two can compromise on and come to a mutually acceptable agreement in the middle. Criticizing is generally never the answer in marriage, it builds resentment and doesn't have a good effect. Rather, you need to work to a mutually acceptable position together. That is key and to do that you need to figure out and she needs to figure out before marriage whether the issue you're disagreeing on, is it something you can compromise together.

As for poem, trust me, I never considered it stupid when I was asked to read it. I only consider it stupid now when I've been put into agony. You should see the difference, brother.
Yeah, but it does tell me you're frustrated with her now, quite a bit. All I'm trying to do is be objective and give you my thoughts as an outsider that I hope will be helpful. It is your decision at the end of the day.
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