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Milton
02-26-2016, 05:22 PM
Could I with respect remind some that using words like "kuffar" , "heathen" and any other words that seek to label others at a lower level than ones self is racism according to UK law.

Respect for each other works both ways, you have to give it out to get it back in return. Personally the word kuffar is offensive to me, and I have discussed this with other non Muslims who agree.
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sister herb
02-26-2016, 06:26 PM
Kafir/kuffar is an Arabic word which meaning is simple as "unbeliever". There isn´t anything racist behind of this word. How we then should call unbelievers (whose don´t believe Allah) if word "unbeliever" sounds unkindly word to someone? It´s not logical to call unbelievers as believers as they aren´t this.

I don´t call anyone as kafir in here in my country because they wouldn´t understand meaning of the word. When we discuss here in Islamic forum where many understand Arabic or at the least some basic Islamic terms by Arabic, it´s different.

So no kafir to you but unbeliever. ;)
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hisnameiszzz
02-26-2016, 07:09 PM
Kuffar is not a word I would use at all. I prefer to say non Muslim or Christian or Jew or whatever religion they follow. LaSorcia comes to mind. She is a really kind hearted lady who uses this website, I would refer to her as a Christian. I would never say she is a Kuffar. Sorry LaSorcia for mentioning you.

I use the word heathen for my neighbours because they are people who have no manners, respect or consideration for others. I think they like to class themselves as Muslims, but they are not what Muslims should be and act like.

I am sorry people have used words and phrases that have offended you. I would like to think it was not their intention and I can only apologise.
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Futuwwa
02-26-2016, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Milton
Respect for each other works both ways, you have to give it out to get it back in return.
You first. Lead the way.
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LaSorcia
02-27-2016, 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
Kuffar is not a word I would use at all. I prefer to say non Muslim or Christian or Jew or whatever religion they follow. LaSorcia comes to mind. She is a really kind hearted lady who uses this website, I would refer to her as a Christian. I would never say she is a Kuffar. Sorry LaSorcia for mentioning you.

I use the word heathen for my neighbours because they are people who have no manners, respect or consideration for others. I think they like to class themselves as Muslims, but they are not what Muslims should be and act like.

I am sorry people have used words and phrases that have offended you. I would like to think it was not their intention and I can only apologise.
Thank you, brother. I have a very limited knowledge of Arabic, but from what I looked up, it seems this word doesn't just mean non-Muslim, but has a connotation of contempt or disgust to it as well. I would not want to be called this word. I might take a different path, but I believe I am headed toward the same (and only) God.
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hisnameiszzz
02-27-2016, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Milton
If I used the word "paki"as a term of abuse I would be liable to arrest and prosecution for a hate crime.
Pray do tell where this would happen. Paki is regularly used by white people and they get away with it. For instance, have a look at the English Defence League website. The comments are regularly frequented with Paki. I don't see anyone being arrested or prosecuted.

I regularly get called a Paki by my white clients at work. If this is law in the UK I would love to know.
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M.I.A.
02-27-2016, 06:16 PM
Hey Milton, racism is like blinkers/indicators.

The more politically correct you get.

The more it annoys you when others don't.

Although the following traffic is more likely to use an indicator/blinker when you do.

...apart from those that don't consider it.

Have fun with that.


Should have started with "consider this" although it's taken by bill Nye the science guy.
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Search
02-27-2016, 08:42 PM
:bism:

Hi. Hope you're doing well.

Hmm, now,I know from where you're coming. To be honest, I dislike that site, despite some nice users, because many members there behave in a way that is unbecoming of a human being, let alone a Muslim or any kind of believer. That said, you should not take that site too seriously.

It is a Reddit-type place from what I understand, and I'd warn both Muslims and non-Muslims away from that site if they want to learn Islam or want to interact with Muslims in a healthy and productive manner.

Now, to answer the topic, in Islamic legal term, the word "kafir" literally means an unbeliever. So, calling someone kafir is not an offensive term in Islamic law. That said, in Quran, from what I understand, this word is understood in the broader context of the following:
Kaafir (kafir) in Arabic is derived from the root verb 'ka fa ra', meaning "he hid" a thing. As a pre-Islamic term (before Islam was established), kafir described the job of farmers who planted seeds in the ground, covering them with soil. The word implies a covering - thus, a covering of truth.
So, Islamic law uses the kafir as only a term of differentiation. Quran uses the word in a broader context of kufr (disbelief).

That said, some Muslims, as I'm sure you've found on that site, do use it in a pejorative manner. Whenever that is the case, you'll simply understand from the tone and context, which is a sad phenomena.

To explain, while I do not believe there is anything wrong with a person calling someone a "kafir" as a means of differentiation in itself, I do disagree and absolutely dislike the term being used as a means of an insult. As for the latter group of people (that is, those who insult with using the word "kafir"), you're best off not responding to them as the only way you can compete with such people is to drop down to their level, which is something you should avoid anyway as a person of dignity and honor and self-respect.

Also, I love Eleanor Roosevelt's words here, of which I would remind you, myself, and everyone else: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." So, my advice is to refuse to give that consent.

People who lose are those who refuse to show respect to any of God's creation, as what they are doing is an injustice and in the process oppressing themselves and others, and that is not the act of a Muslim. So, know in your heart that any abuse or hurled insults are simply a reflection of their inner selves.

Best wishes,

Originally Posted by Milton
On less civilised forums like ummah.com the word kuffar is often used as a meaning of contempt. "Mere Kuffar", "filthy kuffar", "burn in hell kuffar", like many other words that start out as innocent like "paki" just a shortened form of Pakistani, the word kuffar has been turned into a word of abuse now.

If I used the word "paki"as a term of abuse I would be liable to arrest and prosecution for a hate crime.
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Serinity
02-28-2016, 10:54 PM
We ALL belong to Allah and to Him we shall return..

I don't like to use the word kuffar in an insulting manner. I may be wrong but, it is not in my character to defame people's religion. Remember, if you insult other's religion or them because of their religion, they may do the same to us and insult OUR religion.. To which we would not like.

But Kuffar is just 'disbelievers' but seeing how it is coined around, since it is associated with 'filth' or heard in a sense of contempt or arrogance, perhaps. I won't use it.

And to Him we all will be accountable..

And may Allah forgive me for whatever I said of wrong. Ameen.

And Allah knows best.
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Pygoscelis
03-02-2016, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Search
Now, to answer the topic, in Islamic legal term, the word "kafir" literally means an unbeliever. So, calling someone kafir is not an offensive term in Islamic law. That said, in Quran, from what I understand, this word is understood in the broader context of the following:
Kaafir (kafir) in Arabic is derived from the root verb 'ka fa ra', meaning "he hid" a thing. As a pre-Islamic term (before Islam was established), kafir described the job of farmers who planted seeds in the ground, covering them with soil. The word implies a covering - thus, a covering of truth.
I use to think it meant unbeliever, but the quote you give shows that not to be true. It apparently means more than just unbeliever, and means one who covers over the truth. That is an assumption of dishonesty, is it not? So I think I have to conclude that kafir IS an offensive term and I will stop identifying myself as one.
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AhmedGassama
03-02-2016, 05:12 PM
I do agree with you, however these "blind muslim followers" who don't use their brains, they just follow so called "Scholars" who wants to spread fitna and hate to push some political agendas...

I for one, don't listen to these kind of people and i don't follow them. Because our Muslim nation must be united against the face of our enemies, and those who call other muslims kuffar wants us to be divided which is the best plan for the Zionists and for Europe...

We need to learn how to respect each others differences and opinions and to live together in peace and in love. This is the only for us Muslims to unite and to build a strong nation!
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Scimitar
03-02-2016, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by LaSorcia
Thank you, brother. I have a very limited knowledge of Arabic, but from what I looked up, it seems this word doesn't just mean non-Muslim, but has a connotation of contempt or disgust to it as well. I would not want to be called this word. I might take a different path, but I believe I am headed toward the same (and only) God.
I wouldn't listen to Hisnameiszzz on this one.

Kafir simply means one who does not believe - and is actually not derogatory in any sense of the word. It's descriptive. And accurate.

Now if a person is offended that someone called him or her what he or she really is - an unbeliever - they are the ones who have a problem, not the Muslims. We are wiling to share the meaning of Islamic terms in order to kill the ignorance which breed in the west.

One more thing - I prefer the term - Kafir - to unbeliever, because kafir specifically addresses the unbelief towards Islam - yet leaves the other faith groups open for belief... whereas unbeliever in English applies to any religion or faith group. For this reason, I honestly believe the word Kafir is direct and honest in usage.

Thank you for asking such a good question.

God bless,

Scimi
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ardianto
03-02-2016, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by Timi Scar
I wouldn't listen to Hisnameiszzz on this one.

Kafir simply means one who does not believe - and is actually not derogatory in any sense of the word. It's descriptive. And accurate.

Now if a person is offended that someone called him or her what he or she really is - an unbeliever - they are the ones who have a problem, not the Muslims. We are wiling to share the meaning of Islamic terms in order to kill the ignorance which breed in the west.

One more thing - I prefer the term - Kafir - to unbeliever, because kafir specifically addresses the unbelief towards Islam - yet leaves the other faith groups open for belief... whereas unbeliever in English applies to any religion or faith group. For this reason, I honestly believe the word Kafir is direct and honest in usage.

Thank you for asking such a good question.

God bless,

Scimi
I have no problem if Christians describe me as infidel. But if someone directly call me infidel,.... yeah .... I would be offended.

The term kafir (plural: kuffar) means "someone who reject". But if we call non-Muslim directly with this word, this is offensive.

There is ethic in relationship with other people, bro.
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hisnameiszzz
03-02-2016, 06:05 PM
For me it's personally between me and my Creator. I really couldn't care less what anyone else says or calls me. They can call me an infidel or a terrorist or whatever they like. It's not going to bother me.

Sticks and stones will break my bones but calling names or using certain terms won't hurt me.
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Aamir Bozdar
03-02-2016, 06:10 PM
kafir literally means Unbeliever.
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sister herb
03-02-2016, 07:09 PM
I don´t think we can blame the word itself. Any word may sounds abusive or offensive - depending how we use it and by what kind of tone we say it.
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SSHorror
03-05-2016, 06:29 PM
Racism implies the term used is being used as a negative connotation of your race. Atheism is not a race but rather a group so using a term such as "unbeliever" to describe atheists is hardly being racist. Your group is being attacked not your race.
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SSHorror
03-05-2016, 06:32 PM
Also I don't think calling someone a "kafir" is against the UK law. Derogatory as it may sound, it's hardly a swear word and further more, I'd say you atheists are far more rude with your hate speech where you imply that the religious are delusional or are brain washed.

Strange thing that, many atheists can dish it out but can't seem to take it. :hmm:
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sister herb
03-05-2016, 06:41 PM
We may see the right of using this word as part of the freedom of speech. ;)
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hisnameiszzz
03-05-2016, 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
We may see the right of using this word as part of the freedom of speech. ;)
I was just going to say that. In the UK, you can say anything about anyone as long as it's not against Jewish people or homosexuals. Other than those 2 sets of people, you can call almost everyone else anything you want. Why do you think the EDL get away with calling all Muslims paedophiles and terrorists on their hate filled Facbebook pages and various other sites. Freedom of speech and all that! :hiding:

PS. I don't agree with freedom or speech at all. And I am far too busy to be going round calling people names and stupid things but to each their own.
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anatolian
03-06-2016, 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I use to think it meant unbeliever, but the quote you give shows that not to be true. It apparently means more than just unbeliever, and means one who covers over the truth. That is an assumption of dishonesty, is it not? So I think I have to conclude that kafir IS an offensive term and I will stop identifying myself as one.
Salam. It is still not much more different than the word disbeliever. If a non-muslim calls me disbeliever he calls me so according to his belief although I do believe in something (Islam). Just like that when I call you kafir-the one who covers the truth I do it according to my belief because you cover the truth of Islam (the existence of Allah for example) but still you have your own truth which is atheism.
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anatolian
03-06-2016, 01:28 AM
But I agree the OP. If it is used by many as an abusive term we can avoid using it to show our respect and we can correct our muslim brethren who use it as an abusive term.

By the way is this a British web site? Why UK laws are applied?
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Sister101
03-06-2016, 02:25 AM
I wouldn't call anybody a heathen, but a kafir is a kafir. Even if Muslims didn't call non-Muslims kafirs, what difference would that make? We still believe that what we follow is the truth and what kafirs follow is falsehood, so technically our whole religion should be offensive to you.
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Pygoscelis
03-06-2016, 04:07 AM
^ There is a difference between not holding the truth, and actively covering up the truth. I suppose it comes down to the nuance of whether or not the speaker recognizes that the non-muslim doesn't secretly believe and rebel, rather than simply being blind to the truth (as you see it).
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sister herb
03-06-2016, 07:21 AM
I agree with the freedom of speech. It´s important principle of the open society as people has to have right to say what they are thinking about politicians and rulers but also people should have knowledge to separate freedom of speech and hate speech. Now many don´t know their difference and they think that they can say everything they ever like - also things which are just only as defamations against others.
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anatolian
03-06-2016, 10:26 AM
Salam again. It doesnt say that the one who covers the truth is doing it knowingly. Knowingly or without knowing it any one who covers the truth is a kafir. For example Satan and his companions cover the truth knowingly.
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