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1m@@n
03-29-2006, 11:10 PM
:salamext:

Check out dis article...all my respect goes out to those that stand up 4 islam! SubhanaAllah.....

Muslim Woman Wins Case Vs. Dutch School

28-03-2006


AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) -- A Muslim woman who refuses to shake men's hands for religious reasons cannot be barred from a Dutch teacher-training program.

The Dutch Equal Treatment Commission found Monday that the Regional Education Center in the city of Utrecht illegally ''discriminated, indirectly, on the basis of religion,'' when it rejected Fatima Amghar for its program.

Amghar, 20, said her religious beliefs forbid her from having physical contact with men over the age of 12.

The school rejected her application, arguing that shaking hands was routine for a teaching assistant in Dutch society.

But ''there are other conceivable manners of greeting that can be considered proper and respectful,'' the commission ruled.

It warned that Dutch schools risk excluding Muslim women from society unless they find a way to accommodate their beliefs.

Amghar's case is the latest in a series of decisions on the behavior ofo Muslims in the Netherlands.

The same commission ruled last year against an Islamic school that refused to accept a Muslim woman for a teaching position because she refused to wear a headscarf.

In 2004, another Muslim woman won her case when she complained that she was barred from entering a restaurant in The Hague for wearing a headscarf.

After France banned the wearing of headscarves in public schools, the Dutch government decided to leave that question up to individual schools. Most allow headscarves.

However, four months ago parliament approved a ban on wearing the all-covering burqa in public.

The City of Utrecht cut some welfare benefits to unemployed women who insist on wearing burqas to job interviews. The city claimed the women were using the burqa to avoid working, since they knew they wouldn't be hired.

Muslims comprise six percent of Dutch society. Most are first or second generation immigrants from Turkey and Morocco, where the burqa is not common.
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itsme01
03-29-2006, 11:11 PM
:sl:

Excellent news sis.

:w:
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1m@@n
03-29-2006, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by itsme01
:sl:

Excellent news sis.

:w:
:salamext:

yeh sure is subhanaAllah...bought a smile 2 my face 2...but d burqaa ban!?!? thats just beyonddd......

ws
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Snowflake
03-29-2006, 11:20 PM
MashaAllah.. well done to that woman!
The City of Utrecht cut some welfare benefits to unemployed women who insist on wearing burqas to job interviews. The city claimed the women were using the burqa to avoid working, since they knew they wouldn't be hired.
That's disgusting. There's millionz of other ways to avoid working, rather than donning the burkha. How about trying to recruit women in jobs along with their burkhas before laying the blame.
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1m@@n
03-29-2006, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
MashaAllah.. well done to that woman!


That's disgusting. There's millionz of other ways to avoid working, rather than donning the burkha. How about trying to recruit women in jobs along with their burkhas before laying the blame.
yeh exactly sis...if they didnt wanna work then why the chufferz wud they be tryna find work....they have right to unemployment benefits just like any unemployed person.....regardless of whetha they wear burqas or multi coloured bandanas wiv an eye patch or watevaa!!! :rant:

what a dumb reason to cut their welfare benefits....arghhh so so annoying...
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Snowflake
03-29-2006, 11:40 PM
Exactly! Excusez excusez..... I bet there will come a day when they'll start judging people for just being muslims regardless of what they wear. Even westernised muslims will face prejudice. It's just a matter of time.
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Joe98
03-30-2006, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by sister 1maan uk

*The same commission ruled last year against an Islamic school that refused to accept a Muslim woman for a teaching position because she refused to wear a headscarf.

*In 2004, another Muslim woman won her case when she complained that she was barred from entering a restaurant in The Hague for wearing a headscarf.

Sounds like a fair and balanced court.

-
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north_malaysian
03-30-2006, 03:56 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Sounds like a fair and balanced court.

-
agreed. HArd to hear fair and balanced court (plus not prejudice and discriminate minorities) in Muslim countries.
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1m@@n
03-30-2006, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Sounds like a fair and balanced court.

-
:salamext:

hmmm.....yes I thought so 2...

:)

ws
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DaSangarTalib
03-30-2006, 01:29 PM
Allahu Akbar!!
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DaSangarTalib
03-30-2006, 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by sister 1maan uk
:salamext:

...all my respect goes out to those that stand up 4 islam! SubhanaAllah.....
Definetly :happy: :happy:
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-30-2006, 01:34 PM
MASHA-ALLAH:D
:w:
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Herostratos
03-30-2006, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by sister 1maan uk
they have right to unemployment benefits just like any unemployed person.....regardless of whetha they wear burqas or multi coloured bandanas wiv an eye patch or watevaa!!! :rant:
What if they wear nothing? Or only a bikini?
In 2004, another Muslim woman won her case when she complained that she was barred from entering a restaurant in The Hague for wearing a headscarf.
Well.... I believe in the strange principle of property rights. You have the right to prohibit whoever you want to on your own property. I think it is absurd that the restaurant owner shall not have the rights to bar whoever he likes from his own, justly aquired property. There are restaurants in which you are supposed to dress in a certain way, and some restaurants that prohibits you from dressing in a certain way; if you do not like this, you should go to another restaurant.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-30-2006, 01:39 PM
Isn't that discromination?^^^
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1m@@n
03-30-2006, 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by Herostratos
What if they wear nothing? Or only a bikini?
:salamext:

hehe....how likely is dat? such a fing as 'modestly' Alhumdulillah

i guess, then theyd be very very cold peeps...esp in dis uk weather. such peeps should deff be given money via benefits whetha they looking for a job or not...atleast they can buy sum clothes to keep em nice n warm...:giggling:
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-30-2006, 01:50 PM
lol^^
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by sister 1maan uk
However, four months ago parliament approved a ban on wearing the all-covering burqa in public.
does this parliament consist of disgusting perverts or something? man i will make sure never to set foot in a place dominated by the devil

:sl:
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KAding
03-30-2006, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Isn't that discromination?^^^
Yes it is. But don't you believe you should be free to discriminate when your own property is concerned? Say you want to rent your house. Surely you want to have some say in who is going to live in it? But wouldn't refusing, say, a punker be discrimination? Or another example. If you are holding a party, surely you want to be able to decide who can join it, no? In that you surely discriminate between friends and non-friends? Or you decide to organize a muslim debate club, and some neo-nazis insist on joining it. Surely you want to be able to refuse them?

I do not believe discrimination on lifestyle should be an offence. Racism could be considered different in that regard, because skincolor is not a choice. Most things in life are though, such as lifestyle and political or relgious persuasion.

In short, the principle on non-discrimination should only be valid for the government, not for private citizens. Discriminating governments lead to tyranny, the same cannot be said if your neighbor refuses to accept you in his club.
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DaSangarTalib
03-30-2006, 01:57 PM
i dont get it why do ppl get so worked up if a muslim woman chooses to wear a hijab, it dont concern them its a matter of how you dress, where's the fredom they keep rambling on about :confused:
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
i dont get it why do ppl get so worked up if a muslim woman chooses to wear a hijab, it dont concern them its a matter of how you dress, where's the fredom they keep rambling on about :confused:
like i said this parliamant must consist of disgusting men who wish to reveal and expose women. Makes me sik

:sl:
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DaSangarTalib
03-30-2006, 02:01 PM
most likely its disgusting!
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
i dont get it why do ppl get so worked up if a muslim woman chooses to wear a hijab, it dont concern them its a matter of how you dress, where's the fredom they keep rambling on about :confused:
Freedom cuts both ways. Others are just as free to reject the way you dress yourself.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-30-2006, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
does this parliament consist of disgusting perverts or something? man i will make sure never to set foot in a place dominated by the devil

:sl:
That's what i'm thinking. They must be like perverts, why else are they demanding to see women's bodies? I advise them to divorce their wives, they obviously aren't satisfying them or something:rollseyes.
And secondly, if someone said they weren't going to let someone in a shop because they were black, the whole country would be going crazy. Hypocrisy straight up.
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DaSangarTalib
03-30-2006, 02:06 PM
and others are free to wear whatever they want!
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
and others are free to wear whatever they want!
exactly i think if we are banned from wearin somethin we should ban them from revealing anymore then the arms and feet!!!!!!!

:sl:
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DaSangarTalib
03-30-2006, 02:11 PM
double standards! they like having freedom when it comes to them wearing watever they want but when for example muslim woman wears a Hijab oh no this is being oppresive, Islam is oppresive, we have to liberate her; total rubbish and they brings laws out banning Hijab
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:14 PM
so wat exactly will they do... if a woman walks outside wearin a niqaab are they gnna forcefully take it off??? :grumbling i think i'll die a martyr if i see that happening to a sister!!!!!!!

:sl:
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
That's what i'm thinking. They must be like perverts, why else are they demanding to see women's bodies? I advise them to divorce their wives, they obviously aren't satisfying them or something:rollseyes.
No. They are merely afraid and protective. Afraid of Islamism and radical Islam. Protective of their own culture and beliefs. This issue is much bigger then women's bodies.

And secondly, if someone said they weren't going to let someone in a shop because they were black, the whole country would be going crazy. Hypocrisy straight up.
Like I said. Being black isn't a choice. Being Muslim and wearing a hijab is.

Speaking about hypocricy. Islam has it's own dresscode, no? Then why are you so suprised other cultures have dresscodes as well?
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
No. They are merely afraid and protective. Afraid of Islamism and radical Islam. Protective of their own culture and beliefs. This issue is much bigger then women's bodies.



Like I said. Being black isn't a choice. Being Muslim and wearing a hijab is.

Speaking about hypocricy. Islam has it's own dresscode, no? Then why are you so suprised other cultures have dresscodes as well?
islam doesnt hav compulsion! WHY DO OTHER CULTURES HAV COMPULSION?

Peace!
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah
and others are free to wear whatever they want!
Yes, you are free to wear what you want. But you are not free from the consequences of your choices! Your freedom does not force others to accept your choices of dress!
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-30-2006, 02:18 PM
Excuuuuuse me! Why do you assume that me being covered head to toe is extremism? If it isn't about women's bodies then why the hell are you all so desperate to see us? WE CAN COVER UP IF WE WANT TO! Why isn't my personality enough? Democracy, freedom for all? Puleez!
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-30-2006, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
so wat exactly will they do... if a woman walks outside wearin a niqaab are they gnna forcefully take it off??? :grumbling i think i'll die a martyr if i see that happening to a sister!!!!!!!

:sl:
masha-Allah!
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Muezzin
03-30-2006, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Herostratos
What if they wear nothing? Or only a bikini?
Burqas tend to cover a lot more, but I see your point.

Well.... I believe in the strange principle of property rights. You have the right to prohibit whoever you want to on your own property. I think it is absurd that the restaurant owner shall not have the rights to bar whoever he likes from his own, justly aquired property. There are restaurants in which you are supposed to dress in a certain way, and some restaurants that prohibits you from dressing in a certain way; if you do not like this, you should go to another restaurant.
Please. You wouldn't advocate turning away a black person for the same reason, would you? After all, a proprietor has the right to prohibit anyone he wants from his own property. :rollseyes

I agree with the court's decision in the restaurant case.
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Yes, you are free to wear what you want. But you are not free from the consequences of your choices! Your freedom does not force others to accept your choices of dress!
what are u talkin about? read the post at the begining!? whos free? sisters are being forced to reveal themselves? WHERES FREEDOME :grumbling

Peace
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HeiGou
03-30-2006, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
islam doesnt hav compulsion! WHY DO OTHER CULTURES HAV COMPULSION?
Islam does a very good job of looking as if it has complusion. Why do you think on this issue it does not?
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Muezzin
03-30-2006, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Islam does a very good job of looking as if it has complusion.
Looks can be deceiving.

Just like Paris Hilton.

...Bad example. :p
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-30-2006, 02:29 PM
Lol, what is it with people on this thread and Paris Hilton?
:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Islam does a very good job of looking as if it has complusion. Why do you think on this issue it does not?
lol heigou, the women are given a choice, the men are given a choice. We are told to preach and discuss matters in a beautiful manner. However after we reveal wat we hav to reveal its completely up to the person whether they wish to accept the truth revealed or reject it. Where is the compulsion? If u dont wanna pray, dont pray, if u dont wanna cover up, dont cover up, but dont go think u wont go to hell becoz thats juuuust where ur headed lol :p

PEACE :)
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
islam doesnt hav compulsion! WHY DO OTHER CULTURES HAV COMPULSION?

Peace!
Interesting? I thought the Sharia included a 'dress code' which proscribed 'modesty' for females? Isn't the Sharia compulsory?
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Interesting? I thought the Sharia included a 'dress code' which proscribed 'modesty' for females? Isn't the Sharia compulsory?
not at all, people make the choice to follow it. Of course if they dont i believe they will be damned :)

Peace :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:33 PM
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

002.256 - QURAN

:) i hope this clears up misconceptions inshaAllah

:sl:
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
Excuuuuuse me! Why do you assume that me being covered head to toe is extremism? If it isn't about women's bodies then why the hell are you all so desperate to see us? WE CAN COVER UP IF WE WANT TO! Why isn't my personality enough? Democracy, freedom for all? Puleez!
Is this directed at me?

Let me first state that I think the ban on the hijab is a mistake and runs contrary to liberal democracy. So I believe you should certainly have the right to wear one. However, I also believe others should have the right to, say, stop socializing with you or refuse to hire you.
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

002.256 - QURAN

:) i hope this clears up misconceptions inshaAllah

:sl:
the above clearly shows that muslims believe any forced action is wrong! HARAM!

:sl:
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Ghazi
03-30-2006, 02:36 PM
Salaam


[QUOTE]stop socializing with you or refuse to hire you.[/QUOTE Excuse me this attitude is where rascim stems from.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-30-2006, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Is this directed at me?

Let me first state that I think the ban on the hijab is a mistake and runs contrary to liberal democracy. So I believe you should certainly have the right to wear one. However, I also believe others should have the right to, say, stop socializing with you or refuse to hire you.
That is blatant discrimination. Socialise or don't socialise with Muslims, that's your problem. But to not hire someone because they are practicing their faith in a way that does not even concern you?
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HeiGou
03-30-2006, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
lol heigou, the women are given a choice, the men are given a choice. We are told to preach and discuss matters in a beautiful manner. However after we reveal wat we hav to reveal its completely up to the person whether they wish to accept the truth revealed or reject it. Where is the compulsion? If u dont wanna pray, dont pray, if u dont wanna cover up, dont cover up, but dont go think u wont go to hell becoz thats juuuust where ur headed lol :p
And yet Muslims have traditionally appointed muhtasib in order to enforce Islamic legal requirements. It is not that they have stuck to preaching, but they have also moved on to enforcing. If you do not want to pray, well, there used to be people in many Muslim countries who would "command the good" and make you. You think this is not Islamic?
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Muezzin
03-30-2006, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Is this directed at me?

Let me first state that I think the ban on the hijab is a mistake and runs contrary to liberal democracy. So I believe you should certainly have the right to wear one. However, I also believe others should have the right to, say, stop socializing with you or refuse to hire you.
I don't.

Socialising is different, you can't control that. If people want to be ignorant, they'll be ignorant. What should not be condoned is employment discrimination. I'm confused as to why you appear to condone such treatment?
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
what are u talkin about? read the post at the begining!? whos free? sisters are being forced to reveal themselves? WHERES FREEDOME :grumbling

Peace
I agree. That is indeed bad. I disagree with that ban in the Netherlands. We are talking here about a ban on the burqa, not a normal headscarf. These muslim dresses are confusing me :sister:.
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
And yet Muslims have traditionally appointed muhtasib in order to enforce Islamic legal requirements. It is not that they have stuck to preaching, but they have also moved on to enforcing. If you do not want to pray, well, there used to be people in many Muslim countries who would "command the good" and make you. You think this is not Islamic?
002.256 There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

the true muslim will obey the above heigou :) so any1 who is forced (oppressed) should rest knowing the oppressor will be dealth wiv as he is in the wrong.

peace :)
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HeiGou
03-30-2006, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
002.256 There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

the true muslim will obey the above heigou :) so any1 who is forced (oppressed) should rest knowing the oppressor will be dealth wiv as he is in the wrong.
And yet there have been dozens of threads around here recently about the Afghan Christian guy and the consensus seems to be that there is complusion in Islam. This looks like an aborgated verse to me, or at least one that applies to the internal spiritual life of people - not one that applies generally. Do you think that apostates should be allowed to believe what they want?

Promises of justice on the Day of Judgement do not do much to comfort people who would, by and large, rather not be oppressed here and now.
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

002.256 - QURAN

:) i hope this clears up misconceptions inshaAllah

:sl:
Thank you for clearing that up. However, how come countries that officially practise Sharia do have compulsion regarding the head scarf? Like Iran and Saudi Arabia?
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
And yet there have been dozens of threads around here recently about the Afghan Christian guy and the consensus seems to be that there is complusion in Islam.
Whoever is invoking the compulsion is obviously in the wrong. He is a tyrant.

Promises of justice on the Day of Judgement do not do much to comfort people who would, by and large, rather not be oppressed here and now.
that is the problem with the people, they lack faith and patience. Without these two things happiness will never truelly exist in the people.

Peace :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Thank you for clearing that up. However, how come countries that officially practise Sharia do have compulsion regarding the head scarf? Like Iran and Saudi Arabia?
please look at my above post, clearly the ones invoking compulsion are wrong! and look at this hadith by sahih muslim which is very authentic:

Book 043, Number 7180:
Jabir reported that 'Abdullah b. Ubayy b. Salul used to say to his slave-girl: Go and fetch something for us by committing prostitution. It was in this connection that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, revealed this verse:" And compel not your slave-girls to prostitution when they desire to keep chaste in order to seek the frail goods of this world's life, and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful" (xxiv. 33).


this clearly shows that Allah hates those who force any human to do anything. Allah will judge between them on the day of judgement whether they go heaven or hell but they may use there own freewill and decide what they should do! We can only reveal the truth to them! They must accept and act upon it!

Peace :)
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Muezzin
03-30-2006, 02:50 PM
Doesn't all this 'There shall be no compulsion in religion' stuff belong in a different thread? I thought this one was about a Muslim woman winning her case, and also about discrimination in employment.
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
That is blatant discrimination. Socialise or don't socialise with Muslims, that's your problem. But to not hire someone because they are practicing their faith in a way that does not even concern you?
If people really do that I would not respect them. I would fully support social pressure or boycot to try them to stop their discrimatory behavior. However, I do not believe compulsion works in this case. Forcing them to hire someone they do not want is not a good solution. I do not believe free citizens should have to explain their actions to the government all the time.

If you own a company you should be free to hire who you want. Ideally that is. As I have explained I believe discrimination based on natural attributes, like race and gender, should no be allowed, but even that is debatable. I also understand that in certain social circumstances compulsion might be necesarry, but this freedom should be the guiding principle.
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:53 PM
^ u sound a lot like heigou :p

peace :)
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
please look at my above post, clearly the ones invoking compulsion are wrong! and look at this hadith by sahih muslim which is very authentic:

Book 043, Number 7180:
Jabir reported that 'Abdullah b. Ubayy b. Salul used to say to his slave-girl: Go and fetch something for us by committing prostitution. It was in this connection that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, revealed this verse:" And compel not your slave-girls to prostitution when they desire to keep chaste in order to seek the frail goods of this world's life, and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful" (xxiv. 33).


this clearly shows that Allah hates those who force any human to do anything. Allah will judge between them on the day of judgement whether they go heaven or hell but they may use there own freewill and decide what they should do! We can only reveal the truth to them! They must accept and act upon it!

Peace :)
Thank you for the explanation. Good to hear :).

So here we both have countries within our own cultures that appear to be misinterpreting the basic foundations on which they are built. On the one hand a ban of the burqa in Holland and headscarfs in public schools in France, contrary to the principles of liberal democracy. And on the other Iran and Saudi Arabia with compulsion regarding the head scarf, contrary to the Quranic verse quoted above. :heated:
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KAding
03-30-2006, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
^ u sound a lot like heigou :p

peace :)
LOL. :statisfie

Could be worse. He seems like a reasonable guy to me ;).
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-30-2006, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Thank you for the explanation. Good to hear :).

So here we both have countries within our own cultures that appear to be misinterpreting the basic foundations on which they are built. On the one hand a ban of the burqa in Holland and headscarfs in public schools in France, contrary to the principles of liberal democracy. And on the other Iran and Saudi Arabia with compulsion regarding the head scarf, contrary to the Quranic verse quoted above. :heated:
^ exactly, wat a mess this world is in, if only people acted upon the beautiful knowledge they recieve.

peace :)

PS: heigou is very reasonable :)
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-31-2006, 10:43 AM
:sl:
No.1 saudi arabia and iran do not establish shari'ah, this is a lie.
No.2 some laws in shari'ah are compulsory e.g not stealing
But when it comes to some parts of Islam it cannot be forced, e.g praying
We do not force someone to accept Islam, so how is shari'ah forced?
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KAding
03-31-2006, 11:18 AM
Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
:sl:
No.1 saudi arabia and iran do not establish shari'ah, this is a lie.
A lie? Who is lying? Am I by suggesting it? Or are the Iranians and Saudies lying?

No.2 some laws in shari'ah are compulsory e.g not stealing
But when it comes to some parts of Islam it cannot be forced, e.g praying
We do not force someone to accept Islam, so how is shari'ah forced?
I am glad you think that. But to me it appears as if there is some disagreement within Islamic circles about the degree to which some parts of the sharia should be enforced? Is this a correct observation?
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HeiGou
03-31-2006, 11:48 AM
Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
No.1 saudi arabia and iran do not establish shari'ah, this is a lie.
Really? Where do they go wrong? Would you agree that a lot of their law looks a lot like Sharia?

No.2 some laws in shari'ah are compulsory e.g not stealing
But when it comes to some parts of Islam it cannot be forced, e.g praying
We do not force someone to accept Islam, so how is shari'ah forced?
Well Muslims have forced some people to accept Islam in the past. And bits of Sharia have also been enforced - what do you do with a Muslim men who is drinking alcohol in public if not force him to stop?
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-31-2006, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Really? Where do they go wrong? Would you agree that a lot of their law looks a lot like Sharia?



Well Muslims have forced some people to accept Islam in the past. And bits of Sharia have also been enforced - what do you do with a Muslim men who is drinking alcohol in public if not force him to stop?
Good God, how many times do I have to go over this? Just because they seem to be implementing shari'ah doesn't make it so. They are a FASAD government, and I can't wait for the day they are booted out.
And if someone is doing something that d for society as a whole, then yes they must be stopped. But if they are neglecting their own personal duty to Allah then that is their problem. Notice there isn't an islamic punishment for not praying? But however, Zakah must be paid by those who are able. If there is a punishment for something in the Qur'an and Sunnah, that's how you know it must be enforced. Hope that clears it up a little bit.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
03-31-2006, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
A lie? Who is lying? Am I by suggesting it? Or are the Iranians and Saudies lying?



I am glad you think that. But to me it appears as if there is some disagreement within Islamic circles about the degree to which some parts of the sharia should be enforced? Is this a correct observation?
No, whoever says saudi or iran are implementing shari'a is either confused or lying. Because women not driving cars has nothing to do with Islam. That's like saying the Prophet (SAW) stopped women from riding camels... it's idiotic. Please refer to my response to Hei Gou.
-Peace
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Ghazi
03-31-2006, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~
No, whoever says saudi or iran are implementing shari'a is either confused or lying. Because women not driving cars has nothing to do with Islam. That's like saying the Prophet (SAW) stopped women from riding camels... it's idiotic. Please refer to my response to Hei Gou.
-Peace
Salaam

True, Suadia goverment is just messed up, they have some racist laws such as non suadia men can't marry suadia women, btw does anyone know how did law came to be.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
03-31-2006, 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
Salaam

True, Suadia goverment is just messed up, they have some racist laws such as non suadia men can't marry suadia women, btw does anyone know how did law came to be.
Are you JOKING? May Allah Ta'ala guide them....:heated: :heated: :heated: !!!!
Personally I would have a different plan for them:rant:
:w:
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1m@@n
04-02-2006, 05:05 PM
:salamext:

some hadith on the Shaking Hands

Men and women should not shake hands outside the mahram ties.
Hadith - Recorded by Malik, Ahmad, al-Nasai, al-Tirmidhi and ibn Majah.
[Al-Albani has graded it sahih. Al-Albani, Sahih al-Jami, vol. 1, p. 494.]
The Prophet(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said, "I do not shake the hands of women."

Hadith - Bukhari 9:321 (& 7:211)
The Prophet(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) used to take the Pledge of allegiance from the women by words only after reciting this Holy Verse: (60.12) "..that they will not associate anything in worship with Allah." (60.12) And the hand of Allah's Apostle did not touch any woman's hand except the hand of that woman his right hand possessed. (i.e. his captives or his lady slaves).

Hadith - Sahih Muslim, narrated 'A'isha
By Allah, the hand of the Messenger(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) of Allah never touched the hand of a woman. By Allah, the Messenger of Allah never took any vow from women except that which Allah had ordered him to take, and his palm never touched the palm of a woman. When he had taken their vow, he would tell that he had taken the oath from them orally.
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