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Najiullah
08-26-2006, 10:14 AM
Women’s Prayer Area in Haram Might Be Shifted



JEDDAH, 26 August 2006 — The proposal to shift the prayer place of women within the circumambulation area (mataf) to two places inside the Grand Mosque, away from the Holy Kaaba, has drawn mixed reactions from both Saudis and expatriates. Some said the move was discriminatory while others said it would reduce overcrowding in mataf and facilitate tawaf (circumambulation).

Opponents of the proposal urged authorities to provide women wider areas inside the mataf instead of denying them the right to pray close to the Kaaba. According to the proposal made by a committee set up by the Presidency for the Two Holy Mosques Affairs, women will be given two wider prayer areas on the ground floor, in the northern part of the mosque overlooking the Kaaba; the first between Al-Fatah and Al-Nadwa gates and the second between Al-Madinah and Al-Hudaibiya gates.

“These two places are ideal for women worshippers and provide wider space for them,” an informed source at the presidency said. “The present area provided for women in the mataf covers 630 square meters but the new places offer them double the area,” he added. Suhaila Hammad, a member of the National Society for Human Rights and the International Union of Muslim Scholars, opposed the move, saying it would deny women the right to pray inside the mataf.

“In Islam, women have equal rights like men in terms of worship and devotion to God,” she said narrating a verse from the Holy Qur’an. “When we make a decision on this matter, we should also take into consideration the feeling of the thousands of Muslim women who come here from different parts of the world for Haj and Umrah. We should not deny them the right to pray inside the mataf,” she told Arab News.
Suhaila called upon authorities to allocate at least three more areas inside the mataf for women to pray and meditate comfortably.

Hatoon Al-Fassi, a Saudi writer and historian, expressed her confidence that the presidency would not accept the proposal that goes against the message and spirit of Islam that treats both men and women equally.
“I strongly reject this proposal and request the authorities not to implement it,” she said in comments published yesterday. Such a move has never taken place in the history of Islam, she added.

Hassan Misfar of the International Fiqh Academy called upon the mosque authorities to allocate special areas for women to perform tawaf. He said he feared that Western media would use the new proposal in support of their allegation that the Kingdom’s regulations discriminate against women.

“The move is unfair,” said Safiya Ali, an expatriate dawa activist, commenting on the proposal. She feared that once the present area for women in the mataf was shifted they would not get a chance to stay and pray closer to the Holy Kaaba. Safiya wanted wider prayer areas for women in the mataf with greater privacy.

Osama Al-Bar, dean of King Fahd Institute for Haj & Umrah Research, supported the plan, saying it would solve the problem of overcrowding in the mataf area, especially during peak Haj and Umrah seasons. “We have to take into consideration that the mataf has a limited area and is very difficult to expand it further,” he said.

Many other Saudis favored the move saying it was necessary to create more space for circumambulation around the Kaaba for the growing number of pilgrims.
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ameen
08-26-2006, 11:53 AM
salam,

well obviously the proposal is absolutely preposterous.

they would probably want to wipe out the whole female population from the Masjid-Al-Haram site next, because it's best for the women to pray at home, in the deepest darkest corner of their bedroom, right?
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Ghazi
08-26-2006, 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by ameen
salam,

well obviously the proposal is absolutely preposterous.

they would probably want to wipe out the whole female population from the Masjid-Al-Haram site next, because it's best for the women to pray at home, in the deepest darkest corner of their bedroom, right?
:sl:

This is Hajj so obviously women must go if they're finacially able and have a mahram, it's best for women to prey in their homes when they're not considering hajj, also it's the best form of jihad for a women.
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afriend
08-26-2006, 11:58 AM
1 prayer in masjidul haram=27 times the reward.

:rollseyes
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Najiullah
08-26-2006, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by ameen
salam,

well obviously the proposal is absolutely preposterous.

they would probably want to wipe out the whole female population from the Masjid-Al-Haram site next, because it's best for the women to pray at home, in the deepest darkest corner of their bedroom, right?
In Haram women are allowed to pray as they have equal rights.
i dont think this will work, in hajj and ramdahan people stand even 1000 metres from haram .if someone is staying at Mislfilah and other sides. its impossible for them to reach there.
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Najiullah
08-26-2006, 01:03 PM
Proposed Sites Women’s Prayer Area


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afriend
08-26-2006, 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by zÂk
where did u get tht frm ? :rolleyes:
its one Lakh.
n 50,000 for Masjid e nabawi.
ohhhh yeah!! That's ramadhaan :grumbling rewards mulitplied by 27 times.....or was that for jumu'ahs :?
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IceQueen~
08-26-2006, 01:06 PM
urm isn't it 100 000 and a 1000?
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afriend
08-26-2006, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Marya
urm isn't it 100 000 and a 1000?
one lakh is 10, 000 right?
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IceQueen~
08-26-2006, 01:08 PM
i'm sure i read a hadeeth somit like-masjid nabawi is 1000 times more than any other masjid and masjid haram is 100 times more tham nabawi
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afriend
08-26-2006, 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by zÂk
lol for ramadan its 70 :p
not 27 ;)no
one lakh = 100,000
yeah, it's 27 for jummahs then :uhwhat
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Najiullah
08-26-2006, 01:09 PM
bro iqram we are talking about Haram :)

plz somtimes try to read the post before replying :)
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afriend
08-26-2006, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by Najiullah
bro iqram we are talking about Haram :)

plz somtimes try to read the post before replying :)
lol i did read...I guess I'm off topic :-\ Sorry bro

[MAD]WAKKK!!![/MAD]
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afriend
08-26-2006, 01:21 PM
As for the question, does (prayer in) a masjid in Makkah have the same reward as (prayer in) Masjid al-Haraam; A masjid in Makkah does not have the same reward as Masjid al-Haraam, rather the multiple reward is only for Masjid al-Haraam, due to the saying of the Prophet (sallallaahualaihi wasallam), “Prayer in my masjid is thousand times better than in any other masjid except Masjid al-Haraam.” So just as the virtue is specific for the masjid of the Messenger (sallallaahualaihi wasallam), it is also the same for Masjid al-Haraam. And in Saheeh Muslim from Maymunah (radiallaahu anhaa) who said that, “I heard the Prophet (sallallaahualaihi wasallam) say, “Prayer in it is better than a thousand prayers in any other masjid except the Masjid al-Ka’bah.” And this is further proved by his saying, “Do not undertake a journey except to three masaajid: Masjid al-Haraam, this masjid of mine and Masjid al-Aqsaa.” And the wording of Muslim, “Verily a journey is taken to only three masaajid, Masjid al-Ka’bah, my masjid and Masjid al-Aqsaa.”
This is what I found at source one...
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Najiullah
08-26-2006, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
This is what I found at source one...
yes bor there are few other hadith too . let me find them or bro zak will help us finding:)
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afriend
08-26-2006, 01:30 PM
okay, competition lol...

Find the hadeeth with the source, most saheeh one wins....reps ;D [but later I'm all out]
Reply

Najiullah
08-26-2006, 01:42 PM
Volume 2, Book 21, Number 282: Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "One prayer in my Mosque is better than one thousand prayers in any other mosque excepting Al-Masjid-AI-Haram."







let me find more
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Najiullah
08-26-2006, 01:46 PM
It was reported that Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: One prayer in this mosque of mine is better than one thousand prayers anywhere else, apart from al-Masjid al-Haraam, and one prayer in al-Masjid al-Haraam is better than one hundred thousand prayers anywhere else.”
(Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 1406; Ahmad, 14847. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Boosayri in al-Zawaa’id. Haamish Sunan Ibn Maajah).
Reply

Najiullah
08-26-2006, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Marya
J/K you deserve a rep but unfortunately i can't give you any *evil grin*
--he he just kidding, i'm out of reps too at the mo
J/K
was not doing it for reps :)

i can ask iqram and other firends to give me reps everyday :D but i am not thsi forum for reps

anywaz we are offtopic

Women’s Prayer Area in Haram Might Be Shifted
i think its not a good idea at all , its impossible for people staying in hotels at bab e aziz side to reach there in hajj and ramdahan.
http://www.islamicboard.com/465800-post6.html

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IceQueen~
08-26-2006, 02:02 PM
i'm not trying to say that you are going for reps its just i'd give em anyway so stop trying to be all Mr goody twoshoes ;D

is the prayer area gonna be shifted out of masjid haram?!
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Najiullah
08-26-2006, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by zÂk
i guess tht wont b the ONLY area for women. :)

tht BIG area is being allotted to remove them frm mataf.
other areas remain for them.
yes but from most of those areas u cant see kaaba , for example my family always want to pray infront of kaaba specially while performing umerah( 2 nafils)

women will be given two wider prayer areas on the ground floor, in the northern part of the mosque overlooking the Kaaba
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BlissfullyJaded
08-30-2006, 10:43 PM
:sl:

I understand their purpose behind wanting this to remain as is, but I think it is better that they are being given more space further back. Small amount of space closer in the mataaf just means during Hajj, Ramadan, and peak times that women will be fighting and pushing to get in there, because its closer. :)

I'm sure these two areas aren't the the only areas women are limited to praying. These are just the areas they have so far planned for women, and maybe in the future more areas would be added inshaAllah. But most likely, women can still pray in other areas of the Haram..

Btw, bro Najiullah, in the current space in the mataaf for women, they can't see the Kabah anyway. :? There's a barrier around them...innit?
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Najiullah
08-30-2006, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Labibah
:sl:

Btw, bro Najiullah, in the current space in the mataaf for women, they can't see the Kabah anyway. :? There's a barrier around them...innit?

ohh really never been inside:)

what about the back rows sister???
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BlissfullyJaded
08-30-2006, 10:57 PM
:sl:

I have no idea. I've never prayed salah on the first floor, except for in 2001 once. The rest of the times I prayed were either close to the Haram entrance or 2nd/3rd floors.

But the women's only praying areas, they make them such that the barrier is high enough so men can't see. I guess though in the current area they can see the upper of the Kabah. I don't think its just about the praying area though. Its about safety and intermixing...men and women pushing each other that close to the Kabah is happening, and they're trying to prevent it. I could be wrong though.
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Najiullah
08-31-2006, 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by Labibah
:sl:

I have no idea. I've never prayed salah on the first floor, except for in 2001 once. The rest of the times I prayed were either close to the Haram entrance or 2nd/3rd floors.

But the women's only praying areas, they make them such that the barrier is high enough so men can't see. I guess though in the current area they can see the upper of the Kabah. I don't think its just about the praying area though. Its about safety and intermixing...men and women pushing each other that close to the Kabah is happening, and they're trying to prevent it. I could be wrong though.
i think you are right sister,and the other reason is they want more space for tawaf specially in hajj and ramdhan.
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Najiullah
09-01-2006, 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by zÂk
guess those barriers r atmost 7 ft high... n u can easily see the kaa'ba unless u r sitting too close to them. :?
yes they can seee kaaba but i dont think that they can see full kaaba from there , possibly they cant see the imam on mimbar on fridays
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Najiullah
09-01-2006, 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by zÂk
guess those barriers r atmost 7 ft high... n u can easily see the kaa'ba unless u r sitting too close to them. :?
bro i belive barriers are not even 6 feet high ,i think they can see kaaba but not the bottom part of Kaaba not because of barrier but because of rows in front of them ,even guys cant see full kaaba while standing in saff during prayes.

Media Tags are no longer supported
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AceOfHearts
09-01-2006, 11:07 PM
There is no problem, whatsoever, with women praying in the sacred area. The reason why they never try to accommodate women there as they should, and now they are planning on removing them from there even more, is because it is always easier to get rid of them, then to acommodate them.

Temptation for men on the roads? That is easy - just ban women from driving altogether.
Temptation for men in shopping centres? That is easy too - simply ban them from working.
Temptation for men of just the sight of women? That is easy as well. Go to any extent to conceal them.

Improving conditions for men in the sacred area by banning women from there, is just another one of these moves by the men who are in charge. This idea is more jahil than the days of jahiliya.
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BlissfullyJaded
09-02-2006, 04:49 AM
:sl:

Huh? They're not removing women from the Masjid al Haram. They are giving them two bigger areas slightly to the back of the Masjid al Haram. :?

You know, there never used to be an area for women to pray in the mataf before anyway. That area was all for men. If women prayed there before, they would have to pray side by side men. Its just that in the recent two years, they added that small area, and now that they're taking it away it seems all bad. But its not.. :?
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Najiullah
09-02-2006, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Companion
There is no problem, whatsoever, with women praying in the sacred area.
Improving conditions for men in the sacred area by banning women from there, is just another one of these moves by the men who are in charge. This idea is more jahil than the days of jahiliya.
bro they are only moving women's place for more tawaf space thats all no other reason :)
Originally Posted by Labibah
:sl:
Huh? They're not removing women from the Masjid al Haram. They are giving them two bigger areas slightly to the back of the Masjid al Haram. :?

You know, there never used to be an area for women to pray in the mataf before anyway. That area was all for men. If women prayed there before, they would have to pray side by side men. Its just that in the recent two years, they added that small area, and now that they're taking it away it seems all bad. But its not.. :?
yes you are right sis .

but there was a an area for women in early 80's. it was between bab e fahad and bab e umrah, i am not sure bab e fahad was there at that time .but there was a gate .My bro and father told me this. Also when i was kid, we used to have a large picture of kaaba in our house.And i used to belive that this black space is for shia people:D.
i have seen that picture on net too ill try to find it.
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Najiullah
09-02-2006, 06:58 PM
in these pics womens prayer area is on other side and they are atleast 12 years old pics as you can see basement stairs


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BlissfullyJaded
09-02-2006, 10:12 PM
:sl:

Ohhh, my bad. Jazakallah khair bro. :thumbs_up
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Najiullah
09-12-2006, 01:19 AM
very big area infront of kaaba is resrved for women ,its from bab e Fatah to bab e Safa
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Najiullah
09-12-2006, 02:31 AM
Women Welcome Rejection of Haram Prayer Proposal

JEDDAH, 12 September 2006 — Saudis and expatriates have welcomed the decision taken by the Presidency of the Two Holy Mosques Affairs to reject a proposal to shift the women’s prayer area in the mataaf (circumambulation area around the Holy Kaaba). The presidency has also decided to allocate 53 percent of the Grand Mosque to female worshippers.

“There is no truth in press reports that the presidency was planning to shift the women’s prayer place in the mataaf to other areas inside the mosque. This was merely based on a proposal (made by a special panel),” Muhammad Nasser Al-Khozaim, vice chairman of the presidency, told reporters.

“No change has taken place in the prayer area for women in the mataaf. In fact, we have allocated two more wider spaces overlooking the Kaaba for women to pray,” the official said emphasizing that women were equally entitled to the prayer complex as men.

“The presidency has arranged special prayer areas for women during Ramadan and it covers 53 percent of the whole Haram, including the mataaf and three floors,” explained Al-Khozaim, adding that media reports on shifting the prayer place of women from the mataaf to a different area were based on a misunderstanding.

The proposal to shift the prayer area drew stiff criticism from Muslim women across the .Mawaheb Ezzulden, a Sudanese pilgrim, told Arab News that many women were crying after they heard that there were plans to stop women from praying in the mataaf area. “I thank the Saudi government and the Two Holy Mosques Affairs for all their efforts in serving pilgrims and visitors. I thank them for allocating more space for women. This is good news for people and shows clearly that Islam is definitely not against women enjoying their rights,” she said.

Sultan Abdullah, a Saudi government worker, said that many people attacked Saudi Arabia because of the misunderstanding. Abdullah said: “I wonder what they feel now? As Saudis we will not bother with what the enemies of Saudi Arabia and Islam say and we will continue serving pilgrims to the Two Holy Mosques honorably.” Abdullah added: “It is just unbelievable how much Saudi Arabia came under attack because of a silly misunderstanding. Doesn’t Islam tell them to have good thoughts about people and to not jump to conclusions?”

Ghayth Al-Otaibi, a long-time Makkah resident who prays in the Grand Mosque five times a day, laughed when he heard the news. “I knew it was a huge misunderstanding. Look all around you, women are everywhere. It would be crazy to even think such a plan would have materialized.”

Suhaila Hammad, research director at the Saudi National Society for Human Rights, told Arab News she was glad women would be able to continue praying in the circumambulation area. “It is simply our right and it is of great joy that we can continue enjoying this right,” she said.

Laila Al-Ahdab, an Arab columnist who writes for the Al-Watan newspaper and an advocate of women’s rights in the Kingdom, said she was sure that the authorities would not have gone ahead with the proposals. “The Haram is for Muslims all over the world, men and women. When I first heard about the proposal, I was sure that it would be rejected,” she added.

Hammad, who is from Madinah, urged authorities to allocate more space and time at the Prophet’s Mosque for women to pray and visit the Prophet’s grave. “Our Prophet has advised us to pray standing between his grave and his platform, saying it is a garden from the gardens of Paradise. But women are allowed only a limited space in the area to pray,” she said. Speaking about time constraints, she said women are allowed to visit the Prophet’s grave only for five hours a day from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. and one hour in the afternoon,” she said.

Amira Kashgari, one of the participants in the second National Forum for Dialogue held in Makkah, said she was glad that the “voices of wisdom were victorious at the end.”

Sara Yousef, a pilgrim from Egypt, commended the Kingdom’s efforts in the service of pilgrims. “So many millions of people come here, people from all types of backgrounds. The Haram is always kept clean, tidy and the environment is so beautiful. It costs money and a lot of effort to do this. People should appreciate these efforts,” she said.

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BlissfullyJaded
09-12-2006, 02:47 AM
:sl:

That is one huge misunderstanding for people to make. :mad:

MashaAllah, that is an excellent move though. I'm glad they've done this, and cleared themselves up. :)
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Najiullah
09-12-2006, 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by Labibah
:sl:

That is one huge misunderstanding for people to make. :mad:

MashaAllah, that is an excellent move though. I'm glad they've done this, and cleared themselves up. :)
well yes but Arab media reported it so :), or its possible saudi govt has changed their plan because of criticism all around the world ( like last year they were demolishing Prophet Mohammad's(PBUH) birth place.)and alloted even more space
see 53 % women and only 47% men

check these pics i posted women have area from bab e fatah to bab e safa :hiding:

i belive now its time for us to start protesting we have only 47% :grumbling
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MetSudaisTwice
09-12-2006, 12:11 PM
salam
i dont think it is a bad idea, providing the the muslim women get larger area to pray in and it is still within the Haram
wasalam
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S_87
09-12-2006, 02:09 PM
:sl:

and from reading the petition comments ive seen the saudis being accused of ******** disease to the ummah* i sure hope those writing that read this now and feel guilty!
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Najiullah
09-12-2006, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by MetSudaisTwice
salam
i dont think it is a bad idea, providing the the muslim women get larger area to pray in and it is still within the Haram
wasalam
what about the guys bro, 50% 50% was fine but 53% women and only 47% men is unfair:D

Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

and from reading the petition comments ive seen the saudis being accused of ******** disease to the ummah* i sure hope those writing that read this now and feel guilty!
well as i said maybe saudi's changed thier decision because of pressure
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S_87
09-12-2006, 03:12 PM
:sl:

i thought women were less than men actually :lol:
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MetSudaisTwice
09-12-2006, 03:14 PM
salam
does the new plan mean men are getting 47% space and women gettinf 53% space to pray?
wasalam
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Najiullah
09-12-2006, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by MetSudaisTwice
salam
does the new plan mean men are getting 47% space and women gettinf 53% space to pray?
wasalam
yes bro
The presidency has also decided to allocate 53 percent of the Grand Mosque to female worshippers.
time for me to file petition

Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

i thought women were less than men actually :lol:
yes that why i belivbe they did it under pressure, its lil hard to belive they gave more space to women check the pic below SS leading and the best area is reserved for women lol
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MetSudaisTwice
09-12-2006, 03:22 PM
salam
women outnumbering men, where have i heard that before?
wasalam
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Najiullah
09-12-2006, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by MetSudaisTwice
salam
women outnumbering men, where have i heard that before?
wasalam
i dont think it will ever happen

i think ratio is 90 % or more men and 10 % women
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S_87
09-12-2006, 05:39 PM
:sl:

yup you men should start a petition now too! ill sign as well. not fair on men. it should be 50 50 :D
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Kamilah
09-12-2006, 06:01 PM
:unhappy: no waay! I only just noticed this thread! they cant move the womens section awaaay from the Mataaf!!!

Its the best area in the whole of the haram, us Women (:coolious:) we get the best and full view of the door!
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Najiullah
09-12-2006, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

yup you men should start a petition now too! ill sign as well. not fair on men. it should be 50 50 :D
inshaAllah we will soon , i will talk to zAk ,iqram and others lol
:) but do u think 50 50 is fair , i mean it has to be like 70 , 30 or somthing :)
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Najiullah
09-12-2006, 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by Kamilah
:unhappy: no waay! I only just noticed this thread! they cant move the womens section awaaay from the Mataaf!!!

Its the best area in the whole of the haram, us Women (:coolious:) we get the best and full view of the door!
sis they were like 2 week before but now they r not moving it , and not only this they have also alloted 53% of haram area to women :grumbling

read here

http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...-proposal.html
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S_87
09-13-2006, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Najiullah
inshaAllah we will soon , i will talk to zAk ,iqram and others lol
:) but do u think 50 50 is fair , i mean it has to be like 70 , 30 or somthing :)
:sl:

nah it evens out because one man may take like 5 women :?
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Najiullah
09-14-2006, 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

nah it evens out because one man may take like 5 women :?
lol yes 1 out of 500 men takes 5 women lol
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------
09-14-2006, 12:53 PM
:sl:

Nahinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!! They cant do that! That's the best place to pray for women wid a wiked view - Masha'Allah!!!

:w:
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Najiullah
09-14-2006, 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by Aalimah
:sl:

Nahinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!! They cant do that! That's the best place to pray for women wid a wiked view - Masha'Allah!!!

:w:
they are not doing it now

read this
http://www.islamicboard.com/485173-post38.html
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