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sert
08-29-2006, 12:33 PM
allah tells us that there is no difference between a arab and a inidan a chinese and a black, a european and a berrber. but then to chooses arabic to deliver this message. isn't there a big contradiction here.

its like for example a room of ten kids, who all speak different langauges, then the teacher comes in and only speaks one language, while they all have a test the next day at the same time, i mean is this fair? why do the other kids have to learn that language inorder to pass the test.

the other thing is about prayer. why in a country inwhich no one speaks arabic are the prayers still being held in arabic. what is the point of that? if no one understand how they are comunicating with god then are they really communicating with him? i don't think so.

the arabs say that arabic is the language of the hereafter, this is clearly unacceptable, becuase this type of opinion undermines other nations on a racial basis. if the religion of islam is universal, then why does arabic which is known to come from the arabs play such a over riding role in understanding the teaching of god. in other word, for example maths is a universal concept regardless of who you are or how you write your numbers, everyone can understand its ideas. but when it comes to something as serious as your salvation in the next world why is arabic so nessacary if its a universal religion?
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sonz
08-29-2006, 12:53 PM
salama

arabic is not the language of jannah. i read post by admin ansar that its weak.

allah azza wajjal choose arabic cuz its a rich language and has many meanings like 1 arabic word has 20 different meanings and sometimes 1 sentence can mean many things.

allah in his infinite wisdom choose the arabic language to convey the message. obviously u should do ur prayer in arabic or would u use the translation of someone to communicate to allah. why not use the exact words that he revealed. its ur JOB to understand it and its easy to memorize.

chk this

WHY ARABIC QURAN?


Quran, like the Torah and the Gospel, is a book with a great message, "WORSHIP GOD ALONE". Thousands of years ago God gave the Jews the Torah in their own language. The Jews then considered the Hebrew/ Aramaic as the special (Holy) language of God. Some of their Rabbis even taught the Jews that praying in any language other than Hebrew is unacceptable to God and that the angels of God do not understand the prayers if not read in Hebrew.
Then God gave the followers of Jesus, the Gospel in their own language and they felt the same way that their language, mainly Aramaic is the very special language of God.

Then God gave the world the Quran in the Arabic language. And again history repeats itself and the Arabs thought that Arabic is the language of God. They never appreciated that God gave His previous scriptures in other languages, namely Hebrew and Aramaic. They never appreciated the fact that in all the languages that the scriptures came down with, the most important single fact is that the message has been always the same. "WORSHIP GOD ALONE." They never appreciated the fact that to God belongs all the languages of the world, He created them, just like He created us, See 49:13 and 11:118-119.

Those who can read Arabic can appreciate the excellence of the literature structure of the Quran. Those who do not, can appreciate the excellence of the message by reading the Quran in any language.

God, the Almighty, the Knower, the Cognizant knows that the majority of the Muslims in the world will not be reading , speaking or understanding Arabic. About 80% of the Muslims in this world cannot read, understand or speak Arabic.


SO, WHY AN ARABIC QURAN ?


Only those who understand the purpose of the book will understand why it is in Arabic or non-Arabic.

Quran is a book of a message and not a book of entertainment. God knows that HIS MESSAGE can be and will be translated to all the languages of the world and that the true believer will get His message in any place that was destined to be. God would not send a message that cannot be given to everyone clear and unambiguous. God would not send a message in a language that the people cannot read, speak or understand then punish them for not knowing what His message is.

God clearly told us in the Quran that He does not want any hardship in His religion. God did not put any hardship on these millions (or bilions) of non-Arabs to master the Arabic language before getting His message. See 22:78 Getting the message and enjoying the literature excellence of the Quran are two different matters.

The contemporary Arabs of Muhammed listened to the Quran and appreciated its literature excellence but many of them did not believe then, e.g. Abu Jahl and Abu Lahab, Muhammed's own uncles. Many of the contemporary Arabs of today read the Quran in Arabic but do not appreciate the message of the Quran, they belong to the same group as Abu Jahl and Abu Lahab.

It is the message of the Quran that actually counts, and THANKS GOD, it is the part of the Quran that can be translated. If that message could not be translated, there would not be there these 900 million Muslims who do not know how to read, speak, or understand Arabic.

The inability to appreciate the literature excellence of the Quran is but a minor loss if the message could be appreciated, since the purpose of the excellence in literature was one way to get the people to accept the message. In other words, appreciating the message by a non-Arabic speaking person is like going to the conclusion without passing by all the proofs.

This is in contrast to many of those who had the proof, read Arabic and see the literature excellence of the Quran but failed to uphold the message . Many deceived Arabic speaking people put too much emphasis on their ability to appreciate the literature excellence of the Quran while missing the point of the need to appreciate the message itself, by following it.

Understanding that God guarantees that the MESSAGE of the Quran will be given to the whole world in any language in any place, means to understand that having the Quran as an Arabic or non-Arabic book would not make the difference and that is exactly what God is teaching us in 41:44

"If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it
come down in that language?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic,
say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for
those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if
they are being addressed from faraway."


Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe.
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afriend
08-29-2006, 12:59 PM
There is a lot of wisdom into why that is the case.

I am studying arabic, and I can tell you that it is the most 'clockwork' like language in the world.

It is also mentionned in the Quraan:

We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur’ân in order that you may learn wisdom.” (12:1-2).

There is a lot of wisdom in this language....Study it and you shall know.

PS. I haven't been brought up in an arab culture...
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:04 PM
sonz are you saying that arabic is better then all the other languages in the world? if so then you are indirectly saying that the arabs are better then all the other human races.

iqram its obvious u would say arabic is a nice language, otherwise you wouldn't of gone out of ur way to learning it, other words you got a bais.
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- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 01:08 PM
:wasalamex


By the way - if you really accept that the Qur'an is Allaah Almighty's message, then we should accept the fact that it's in arabic. And if the muslims have one main language, it create's alot of unity too insha'Allaah.


:salamext:
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afriend
08-29-2006, 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by sert
sonz are you saying that arabic is better then all the other languages in the world? if so then you are indirectly saying that the arabs are better then all the other human races.

iqram its obvious u would say arabic is a nice language, otherwise you wouldn't of gone out of ur way to learning it, other words you got a bais.
not quite....I got to an Islamic school. I did not enjoy arabic until I knew of the wisdom behind it.

Had I not been forced to improve my arabic, I wouldn't have realised that.

Do me a favour, learn the arabic language....And you will be astonished how well you can adapt to other languages. I only got good at french becuase of arabic, and the structure of the verbs....

The way things fall in place is just wonderful.

PS. I'm 14 so you can't really say that I've gone out of my way as I am still at school and I need to get good GCSE results lol
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
:sl:
Br. (seafood?), your post is familiar.

Change your perspective: Your question is a bit like asking why all people aren't born into the same religion of Islam to begin with.
bro no it isnt, because that in my opinion is a matter of the heart, however when there are rules like your prayer is only accepted in arabic then it starts becoming about action rather then about whats in your heart. and i don't agree with that, why should arabic be the reason for my salvation? don make sense to me^o)
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afriend
08-29-2006, 01:14 PM
RasoolAllah [SAW] spoke Arabic...And for things that rasoolAllah [SAW] did, there can only be wisdom in it.

Take this for example:

He [saw] ordered that his followers wash their hands before begining to eat. His followers [RA] did not question this, but we can see the reason for it today....
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sonz
08-29-2006, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by sert
sonz are you saying that arabic is better then all the other languages in the world? if so then you are indirectly saying that the arabs are better then all the other human races.

iqram its obvious u would say arabic is a nice language, otherwise you wouldn't of gone out of ur way to learning it, other words you got a bais.
i said its a RICH language. read what i said

for ex

allah means THE GOD. it doesnt have a gender so there cant be The GODDESS or THE GODS

but in english language GOD can be given a gender like goddess and can be made plural like gods.

islam is another ex.

it has 5 diff meanings

"Islam" means (surrender; submission; obedience; peace)
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/islam/

chk this by Dr Zakir Naik


1. Arabic: language of the land.

The Glorious Qur’an is the last and final revelation of Almighty God which was revealed for the whole of humanity. Since it was revealed in Arabia, the language of the Qur’an had to be the language of the people of that land i.e. Arabic. Similarly, the other previous revelations of God like Torah, Zaboor, Injeel, etc. were also revealed in the language of inhabitants living in that region.

2. Arabic: Muhammad’s (Pbuh) mother tongue.

Since the last and final Messenger, Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh), unto whom the Qur’an was revealed, was an Arab, therefore the Qur’an was revealed to him in his mother tongue which was Arabic. If the Qur’an was revealed in a language which was not the Prophet’s mother tongue, the people who knew that language, would surely say, how can you explain to us the message when we understand it better than you? It would be like a French man, who explains to an English man regarding the message given in a book written in English.

3. Arabic: a living language.

Although, Arabic is an ancient language, it is yet a living language which is spoken by more than 150 million people throughout the world. The languages of the other religious scriptures like Hebrew, ancient Greek, Aramaic, etc. are dead languages and can hardly be understood by a handful of scholars. These languages are not spoken in any discussions or conversations or not used in written correspondence. Therefore it is very easy for a person who wants to make any changes in the religious scriptures in such ancient languages, since the masses will not realize it - such an eventuality is not possible in the case of the Qur’an.

4. Arabic: a very rich language.

Arabic is a very rich language. Several of its words have many meanings. Each word of Arabic has a deep meaning and we sometimes require few words or even sentences to describe its meaning. Thus in a few words a lot of information can be conveyed, and several times, all the different meanings of that same word are applicable e.g. The first two verses of the Qur’an from Surah ‘Alaq’ chapter no 96 verses 1 and 2 are ‘Iqra Bismi Rabbikal Lazi Khalaq’ Khalaqal Insaana Min alaq’.

‘Iqra in Arabic means ‘to read’, to recite’, ’to proclaim’. ‘Rab’ in Arabic means ‘Lord’, ‘Cherisher’, ‘Sustainer’ and ‘Alaq’ in Arabic means something which clings or a leech like substance. Therefore, these two short verses of the Qur’an give us a great deal of knowledge and information and even if we translate the verses as follows; “read, recite, proclaim in the name of Thy Lord; the cherisher, the sustainer, who created. Who created the human being from something which clings, a leech like substance”, it does not encompass the total meaning.

5. Because of the richness and eloquence in the Arabic language in which the Qur’an was revealed, there are basically two types of reading of the Qur’an. One is ‘Tazakkur-e-Qur’an’ i.e. superficial reading in which you acquire the general message of the Qur’an. And the second category is ‘Tadabbur’ which means to ponder or consider with care, in which you acquire the complete meaning and deeper understanding of the Qur’an. The same verse will satisfy a layman as well as an intellectual.

6. The Arabic script requires much less space as compared to other languages e.g. ‘Muhammad’ in Arabic is written as shown below with the short vowels added above. However, if you have to write the same word in English, you have to write Muhammad or Muhammed.


Muhammad written in Arabic and English.

Thus the space, the ink, the time, the energy and the resources required to write or print the Arabic script is one-third or half of what is required in English and other languages.

7. Qur’an: not only for the Arabs but for the whole world.

This does not however indicate that because the Qur’an was revealed in Arabic, it is only meant for the Arabs. Suppose a French Scientist makes a new discovery which guides the people in day to day household work, or a medical treatment for a certain disease and he further writes his findings and theory in French, it does not mean that his research is only meant for the people of France. Even though, it is written in French, it is guidance for the whole world. Similarly, even though the Qur’an was revealed in Arabia in the Arabic language, it is guidance not only to the Arabs but to the whole world.

http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modu...rticle&sid=177
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:wasalamex


By the way - if you really accept that the Qur'an is Allaah Almighty's message, then we should accept the fact that it's in arabic. And if the muslims have one main language, it create's alot of unity too insha'Allaah.


:salamext:
look the mere point im raising this issue shows that it doesn't bring about unity, its written in arabic, but why? why only one language, allah is favouring the arabs more then the rest of us, is this fair?


bro iqram, i take ur point but it still dont explain why arabic is needed for your prayers to be accepted.
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sonz
08-29-2006, 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by sert
bro no it isnt, because that in my opinion is a matter of the heart, however when there are rules like your prayer is only accepted in arabic then it starts becoming about action rather then about whats in your heart. and i don't agree with that, why should arabic be the reason for my salvation? don make sense to me^o)
salama

again i said. do u want to recite the exact words revealed in the quran OR DO U WANT TO RECITE SOMEONE ELSE TRANSLATIONS when ur doing prayer. just answer that question

masalama
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
i said its a RICH language. read what i said


7. Qur’an: not only for the Arabs but for the whole world.

This does not however indicate that because the Qur’an was revealed in Arabic, it is only meant for the Arabs. Suppose a French Scientist makes a new discovery which guides the people in day to day household work, or a medical treatment for a certain disease and he further writes his findings and theory in French, it does not mean that his research is only meant for the people of France. Even though, it is written in French, it is guidance for the whole world. Similarly, even though the Qur’an was revealed in Arabia in the Arabic language, it is guidance not only to the Arabs but to the whole world.

http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modu...rticle&sid=177
so are you saying arabs invented islam?

tell me why didn't allah reveal it in no language, just like the maths example i mentioned, make it universal.
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afriend
08-29-2006, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
salama

again i said. do u want to recite the exact words revealed in the quran OR DO U WANT TO RECITE SOMEONE ELSE TRANSLATIONS when ur doing prayer. just answer that question

masalama
LOL

Dr. Zakir Naik Addreses this in that article you posted, brother sert, I'm sure all your questions will be answered after reading the article...Dr. Zakir Naik is genius :)
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- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by sert
look the mere point im raising this issue shows that it doesn't bring about unity, its written in arabic, but why? why only one language, allah is favouring the arabs more then the rest of us, is this fair?

What language do you expect Allaah Almighty to reveal it in? Allaah chose the arabs to be the ones to recieve the message, and Allaah chose them to be the ones to spread it.

You might ask, why didn't Allaah reveal it in a universal language. But the fact is that Allaah doesn't need to change the whole worldly system [of people speaking different languages] because by learning arabic - a believer is showing their sincerety in accepting the message.


Also - the Qur'aan is recited in arabic in salaah because Allaah revealed it that way - what's the point of reciting it in another language when that translations will/may have errors in?


And your claim about arabs saying that the language of jannah will be in arabic is a fabricated, or da'eef hadith.


Allaah Almighty knows best.



:salamext:
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
OK bro, think like this: If everyone in the world were muslim, what language would be adopted as the 'language of the people'?
why should any language be adopted? and certainly not arabic!! why should it?

and if u say, becuase of the quran then thats my whole argument, why did allah make arabic so important? this is putting down the rest of the human race and raising the arabs. allowing for easy subjugation of people by the arabs. which is WRONG!!!!
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afriend
08-29-2006, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by sert
look the mere point im raising this issue shows that it doesn't bring about unity, its written in arabic, but why? why only one language, allah is favouring the arabs more then the rest of us, is this fair?


bro iqram, i take ur point but it still dont explain why arabic is needed for your prayers to be accepted.
dua [supplications]- Not required.

Salaah [prayer]-

This is addressed in a similar way in the above article posted. When we read translations of the Quraan, we see that there are many different tranlators, pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Shakir etc.

Now in a mosque where the people speak english for example, one group demands the usage of Pickthall, another Shakir, another Yusuf Ali...And then there will be confrontations upon which is most accurate.

Same goes for arabic even, there are different ways of saying things:

I did not eat- Maa akaltu [maa is what literally, but when used with a verb it turns it negative e.g. akaltu means I ate, maa akaltu means that I did not eat]...Akala means he/it ate and the tu at the end of any verb signalises that the action is being done by 'I'.

It can also be said as lastu [laysa is he is not/is not, 'tu' signalises 'I'] akaltu [I ate], put it together and you get I did not eat.

Therefore it is better to use the classic Quraan to avoid any disunity...
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sonz
08-29-2006, 01:27 PM
sert thinks the quran shuld have been revealed in a universal language like mathematics??? ru for real??

so if the quran is about worshipping the one GOD. should it have been revealed like 4+4x34929 = worship the one GOD

why was the gospel revealed in aramaic, why was the torah revealed hewbrew.

the main important thing is that u understand the message and upon it.

ur not making sense sert. ur the only 1 who sees things that others dont see. just read the post of dr zakir naik.
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
What language do you expect Allaah Almighty to reveal it in? Allaah chose the arabs to be the ones to recieve the message, and Allaah chose them to be the ones to spread it.

You might ask, why didn't Allaah reveal it in a universal language. But the fact is that Allaah doesn't need to change the whole worldly system [of people speaking different languages] because by learning arabic - a believer is showing their sincerety in accepting the message.


Also - the Qur'aan is recited in arabic in salaah because Allaah revealed it that way - what's the point of reciting it in another language when that translations will/may have errors in?


And your claim about arabs saying that the language of jannah will be in arabic is a fabricated, or da'eef hadith.


Allaah Almighty knows best.



:salamext:

i don't want any language!! simple as that!

why destory any of the existant languages? why not just send it down as a message without a language! ( currently we have to pray in arabic )

who needs a translation when it should be about the heart rather then the actions.
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Why did Allah raise some people as muslims and not others? Surely, that is putting down the rest of the human race?
no because that is a matter between them and allah, no one knows whats in someone elses heart.

but making arabic so tightly linked with islam is puting down non-arabs
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram

Therefore it is better to use the classic Quraan to avoid any disunity...
NO!! u mean more like to subjugate the non-arabs!
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afriend
08-29-2006, 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by sert
i don't want any language!! simple as that!

why destory any of the existant languages? why not just send it down as a message without a language! ( currently we have to pray in arabic )

who needs a translation when it should be about the heart rather then the actions.
Look at it this way, if your boss tells you to do a certain job, will you say I was doing it in my heart?

Of course not.

And this is Allah we're talking about, our lord, our creator, we can never compare to anything/one else.
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- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by sert
i don't want any language!! simple as that!

why destory any of the existant languages? why not just send it down as a message without a language! ( currently we have to pray in arabic )

who needs a translation when it should be about the heart rather then the actions.

Because Allaah Almighty chose to reveal it that way. We don't know the full wisdom of Allaah Almighty, and this is when faith comes into it.

We pray from the heart and tongue, and salaah should be performed in the way of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.) However, whenever you want to make dua'/supplication - then you can pray that in whatever language you want insha'Allaah.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
sert thinks the quran shuld have been revealed in a universal language like mathematics??? ru for real??

so if the quran is about worshipping the one GOD. should it have been revealed like 4+4x34929 = worship the one GOD

why was the gospel revealed in aramaic, why was the torah revealed hewbrew.

the main important thing is that u understand the message and upon it.

ur not making sense sert. ur the only 1 who sees things that others dont see. just read the post of dr zakir naik.

no my friend this is the issue, i didn't say reavel it in mathematics, i meant things can be understood between different people, using a universal message rather then just one language!

and yes that is what im trying to do, understand the message rather then how its revealed, time u understood that too.
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afriend
08-29-2006, 01:34 PM
Well, what are you doing now? creating disunity, putting Arabs down...
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
So you don't want to see any form of physical prayer, i.e. Salah?

yes, unless someone can truly explain to be why arabic is so important to wether i go jannaah or not.
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
Well, what are you doing now? creating disunity, putting Arabs down...

:? ^o) when did i put anyone down? i never said anything bad about arabs!!
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by sert
no my friend this is the issue, i didn't say reavel it in mathematics, i meant things can be understood between different people, using a universal message rather then just one language!

and yes that is what im trying to do, understand the message rather then how its revealed, time u understood that too.
and tell me exactly how that can be achieved. is there a such thing as universal language??? if so then why did allah create people in different colors and different languages. why wasnt it better to create 1 type of people and 1 type of language.
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afriend
08-29-2006, 01:38 PM
You're accusing arabs of doing something which they are not...
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Because Allaah Almighty chose to reveal it that way. We don't know the full wisdom of Allaah Almighty, and this is when faith comes into it.

We pray from the heart and tongue, and salaah should be performed in the way of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him.) However, whenever you want to make dua'/supplication - then you can pray that in whatever language you want insha'Allaah.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

BINGO!!! u admit it, we pray with our hearts and tongues!! so that means arabic is linked with islam so much that its elevated above all the other languages and so the arabs must be better and the rest of the human race are so how lower then them!!

something i CANNOT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT!!!
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sert
08-29-2006, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
and tell me exactly how that can be achieved. is there a such thing as universal language??? if so then why did allah create people in different colors and different languages. why wasnt it better to create 1 type of people and 1 type of language.
i don't know! thats what i would like to know,
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sonz
08-29-2006, 01:40 PM
seth its the message that attracts people and thats why islam is the fastest growing religion in the world

only some1 with weak faith questions such obvious things. do u think priests, rabbis, and other famous people who convert to islam ask such questions. no cuz they understand the wisdom and its the message that attracts them, there is no god except allah

masalama
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
You're accusing arabs of doing something which they are not...

more like ur accusing me!! when did i say arabs are doing anything?

qoute one post i made, brother please don't lie about me!
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by sert
BINGO!!! u admit it, we pray with our hearts and tongues!! so that means arabic is linked with islam so much that its elevated above all the other languages and so the arabs must be better and the rest of the human race are so how lower then them!!

something i CANNOT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT!!!
salama

i dont think this guy is even a muslim. look at all the answers we gave him and he still thinks that islam is for arabs. i think he is some nonmuslim tryin to cause fitnah

masalama
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
seth its the message that attracts people and thats why islam is the fastest growing religion in the world

only some1 with weak faith questions such obvious things. do u think priests, rabbis, and other famous people who convert to islam ask such questions. no cuz they understand the wisdom and its the message that attracts them, there is no god except allah

masalama
listen i too was among those who had reverted to islam, so i know, and its not for you to guess at the level of my iman, i have a legitimate question,

why is arabic so important to islam, why is it so interlinked? why did allah make it like this? isnt the message of allah universal, why is prayer = arabic ?
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by sert
why should any language be adopted? and certainly not arabic!! why should it?

and if u say, becuase of the quran then thats my whole argument, why did allah make arabic so important? this is putting down the rest of the human race and raising the arabs. allowing for easy subjugation of people by the arabs. which is WRONG!!!!
And where does this happen?

I am not known to lie
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
salama

i dont think this guy is even a muslim. look at all the answers we gave him and he still thinks that islam is for arabs. i think he is some nonmuslim tryin to cause fitnah

masalama

r u serious? you have just done takfir,
im a muslim and proud to be one, but i have questions, so i ask! is that so wrong?
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by sert
r u serious? you have just done takfir,
im a muslim and proud to be one, but i have questions, so i ask! is that so wrong?
And you have every right to do so...

salama

i dont think this guy is even a muslim. look at all the answers we gave him and he still thinks that islam is for arabs. i think he is some nonmuslim tryin to cause fitnah

masalama
Bro that's wrong :( I didn't expect that from u....
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
And where does this happen?

I am not known to lie

so? did i say arabs do this? i said it allows for it to happen! not it does happen and i hate arabs!! u misunderstood me and so ur still lieing!
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by sert
listen i too was among those who had reverted to islam, so i know, and its not for you to guess at the level of my iman, i have a legitimate question,
only someone who has low iman would ask such silly questions

why is arabic so important to islam, why is it so interlinked? why did allah make it like this? isnt the message of allah universal, why is prayer = arabic ?
read and understand

1. Arabic: language of the land.

The Glorious Qur’an is the last and final revelation of Almighty God which was revealed for the whole of humanity. Since it was revealed in Arabia, the language of the Qur’an had to be the language of the people of that land i.e. Arabic. Similarly, the other previous revelations of God like Torah, Zaboor, Injeel, etc. were also revealed in the language of inhabitants living in that region.

2. Arabic: Muhammad’s (Pbuh) mother tongue.

Since the last and final Messenger, Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh), unto whom the Qur’an was revealed, was an Arab, therefore the Qur’an was revealed to him in his mother tongue which was Arabic. If the Qur’an was revealed in a language which was not the Prophet’s mother tongue, the people who knew that language, would surely say, how can you explain to us the message when we understand it better than you? It would be like a French man, who explains to an English man regarding the message given in a book written in English.

3. Arabic: a living language.

Although, Arabic is an ancient language, it is yet a living language which is spoken by more than 150 million people throughout the world. The languages of the other religious scriptures like Hebrew, ancient Greek, Aramaic, etc. are dead languages and can hardly be understood by a handful of scholars. These languages are not spoken in any discussions or conversations or not used in written correspondence. Therefore it is very easy for a person who wants to make any changes in the religious scriptures in such ancient languages, since the masses will not realize it - such an eventuality is not possible in the case of the Qur’an.

4. Arabic: a very rich language.

Arabic is a very rich language. Several of its words have many meanings. Each word of Arabic has a deep meaning and we sometimes require few words or even sentences to describe its meaning. Thus in a few words a lot of information can be conveyed, and several times, all the different meanings of that same word are applicable e.g. The first two verses of the Qur’an from Surah ‘Alaq’ chapter no 96 verses 1 and 2 are ‘Iqra Bismi Rabbikal Lazi Khalaq’ Khalaqal Insaana Min alaq’.

‘Iqra in Arabic means ‘to read’, to recite’, ’to proclaim’. ‘Rab’ in Arabic means ‘Lord’, ‘Cherisher’, ‘Sustainer’ and ‘Alaq’ in Arabic means something which clings or a leech like substance. Therefore, these two short verses of the Qur’an give us a great deal of knowledge and information and even if we translate the verses as follows; “read, recite, proclaim in the name of Thy Lord; the cherisher, the sustainer, who created. Who created the human being from something which clings, a leech like substance”, it does not encompass the total meaning.

5. Because of the richness and eloquence in the Arabic language in which the Qur’an was revealed, there are basically two types of reading of the Qur’an. One is ‘Tazakkur-e-Qur’an’ i.e. superficial reading in which you acquire the general message of the Qur’an. And the second category is ‘Tadabbur’ which means to ponder or consider with care, in which you acquire the complete meaning and deeper understanding of the Qur’an. The same verse will satisfy a layman as well as an intellectual.

6. The Arabic script requires much less space as compared to other languages e.g. ‘Muhammad’ in Arabic is written as shown below with the short vowels added above. However, if you have to write the same word in English, you have to write Muhammad or Muhammed.


Muhammad written in Arabic and English.

Thus the space, the ink, the time, the energy and the resources required to write or print the Arabic script is one-third or half of what is required in English and other languages.

7. Qur’an: not only for the Arabs but for the whole world.

This does not however indicate that because the Qur’an was revealed in Arabic, it is only meant for the Arabs. Suppose a French Scientist makes a new discovery which guides the people in day to day household work, or a medical treatment for a certain disease and he further writes his findings and theory in French, it does not mean that his research is only meant for the people of France. Even though, it is written in French, it is guidance for the whole world. Similarly, even though the Qur’an was revealed in Arabia in the Arabic language, it is guidance not only to the Arabs but to the whole world.
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by sert
r u serious? you have just done takfir,
im a muslim and proud to be one, but i have questions, so i ask! is that so wrong?
do u even know what takfir is??

i said "i think" cuz this is the internet and many nonmuslims who joined this forum have said that they are muslims tryin to stir fitnah.

so ive every rite to question.

masalama
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by sert
so? did i say arabs do this? i said it allows for it to happen! not it does happen and i hate arabs!! u misunderstood me and so ur still lieing!
ok I misunderstood....

I didn't lie.....accusing people is bad, I'm never doing that again....
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:50 PM
sonz @ so as i said before, look at how your writing about arabic, ur making it better then all the other languages of the world. that is just plain wrong! no language has the right to say its better then any other language!!
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 01:51 PM
chk this

Q: Many of us speak little Arabic. Is it permissible to use one's mother tongue in saying our supplication during various stages of prayer? A friend of mine says that all supplications during prayer must be in Arabic. I feel that the Prophet and his companions used Arabic because it was their mother tongue. Please comment. If a person does not speak Arabic at all, but has learned the meaning of the Qur'an in his language, can he use such translation in his prayer?

A : All scholars agree that anyone who offers prayers must read the Al-Fatihah and the Qur'an in Arabic. It is not possible to use translation, as I have explained on several occasions. If a person does not know the Fatihah, but knows another passage of the Qur'an, he is required to say in each rak'ah a passage of similar length to the Fatihah. If he does not know any part of the Qur'an in Arabic, he must learn. If he fears that he would miss his prayers before he could learn, he should glorify Allah, using the well known formula:
Subhan Allah, Alhamdulillah, La ilaha illa Allah, Allahu Akbar, la hawla wala qowwata illa billah. If a person cannot learn all these five phrases, he learns what he can of them and repeats them. This is the case of a
man who could not learn any verse of the Qur'an; the Prophet taught him a few simple phrases in Arabic to repeat them in his prayers. He did not tell him to glorify Allah in silence. Therefore, when you offer your prayer, you should say the Qur'an in Arabic and also any glorification or supplication. When you have finished your prayers, you can say any supplication in your language. Supplication in prayer can concentrate on what you have learned to say in Arabic. If you learn one sentence, to appeal to Allah to admit you into heaven and spare you any punishment in the hereafter, that is more than sufficient. You can include everything else in your supplication after prayer in your language. It is not true that the Prophet and his companions used Arabic because it was their mother tongue. The Prophet used Arabic in prayer because he had to read the Qur'an in
prayer and the Qur'an, Allah's words, is in Arabic. Any translation of it is not the Qur'an, but an explanation of its meaning. That translator may have to change the order of the original text in order to fit his text with the grammar into which he is translating. No one can change the order of the Qur'anic words. Had Allah wanted the Prophet to offer his prayers in any other language, He would have told him so and would have made it
easy for him to learn that language. But Allah wants us to use His Book in our prayer. As it is well known to everyone, His Book has been revealed in Arabic.

http://www.guidedones.com/metapage/salat/Prayer_arabic.htm


Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
do u even know what takfir is??

i said "i think" cuz this is the internet and many nonmuslims who joined this forum have said that they are muslims tryin to stir fitnah.

so ive every rite to question.

masalama

well i think your a nonmuslim too then! is that really allowed? i don't think so, thinking bad of your brother is not allowed!
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 01:53 PM
Question

How "sacred" or "important" is Arabic language in Islam?

* Is there anything in Quran or Sunnah that directly reflects Arabic as being a language superior to rest?
* How important is it for Muslims to learn/understand Arabic in the light of Quran & Sunnah?

Response

Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) seem to be devoid of any explicit mention of Arabic being a language superior to the rest. Neither do they directly emphasize the learning of the language. Therefore it seems that this is one of the areas which have been left to our intellect and the effort that each individual can put in.

Amongst the verses relevant to the topic at hand, a few are narrated below:
"We have sent it down as an Arabic Quran, in order that you may learn wisdom." (Yousuf 12:2)

"And certainly We have set forth to men in this Quran similitudes of every sort that they may reflect. An Arabic Quran without any crookedness, that they may guard (against evil)." (Az-Zumar 39:27-28)

It needs to be appreciated that Quran was revealed in the language of its addressees so they were able to comprehend its message easily. The purpose of Quran was never meant to be recitation only, rather understanding of the Book of God and His message to us. This is evident from the verses above, and has also been mentioned at other places in the Quran.

As a result, in today's world it seems that reading and understanding Quran is a must which may be satisfied by reading translations in our own languages so we are able to understand it. That was the main purpose of Quran being revealed in Arabic when it addressed the Arabs.

Second to that, it would be highly desirable to know the meaning of Quranic verses since that will bring significant value to one's daily prayers. This can be achieved gradually over time.

http://www.omeriqbal.com/arabic.html
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 01:53 PM
:uhwhat

well...err. What Allah decrees is always right. A part of the sunnah you may question as sometimes it may be fabricated. But plain, burhaan such as the Quraan you question/deny? I don't know much about Islam, there is much to be learnt, I have tried my best to put forward my point, it is up to you to take heed.
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
chk this

Q: Many of us speak little Arabic. Is it permissible to use one's mother tongue in saying our supplication during various stages of prayer? A friend of mine says that all supplications during prayer must be in Arabic. I feel that the Prophet and his companions used Arabic because it was their mother tongue. Please comment. If a person does not speak Arabic at all, but has learned the meaning of the Qur'an in his language, can he use such translation in his prayer?

A : All scholars agree that anyone who offers prayers must read the Al-Fatihah and the Qur'an in Arabic. It is not possible to use translation, as I have explained on several occasions. If a person does not know the Fatihah, but knows another passage of the Qur'an, he is required to say in each rak'ah a passage of similar length to the Fatihah. If he does not know any part of the Qur'an in Arabic, he must learn. If he fears that he would miss his prayers before he could learn, he should glorify Allah, using the well known formula:
Subhan Allah, Alhamdulillah, La ilaha illa Allah, Allahu Akbar, la hawla wala qowwata illa billah. If a person cannot learn all these five phrases, he learns what he can of them and repeats them. This is the case of a
man who could not learn any verse of the Qur'an; the Prophet taught him a few simple phrases in Arabic to repeat them in his prayers. He did not tell him to glorify Allah in silence. Therefore, when you offer your prayer, you should say the Qur'an in Arabic and also any glorification or supplication. When you have finished your prayers, you can say any supplication in your language. Supplication in prayer can concentrate on what you have learned to say in Arabic. If you learn one sentence, to appeal to Allah to admit you into heaven and spare you any punishment in the hereafter, that is more than sufficient. You can include everything else in your supplication after prayer in your language. It is not true that the Prophet and his companions used Arabic because it was their mother tongue. The Prophet used Arabic in prayer because he had to read the Qur'an in
prayer and the Qur'an, Allah's words, is in Arabic. Any translation of it is not the Qur'an, but an explanation of its meaning. That translator may have to change the order of the original text in order to fit his text with the grammar into which he is translating. No one can change the order of the Qur'anic words. Had Allah wanted the Prophet to offer his prayers in any other language, He would have told him so and would have made it
easy for him to learn that language. But Allah wants us to use His Book in our prayer. As it is well known to everyone, His Book has been revealed in Arabic.

http://www.guidedones.com/metapage/salat/Prayer_arabic.htm

Okay leave everything else out....trust this atleast.
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 01:56 PM
this one talks about the socalled "universal language"

The language of the Quran.

The Quran came down in the Arabic language. Allah says;

"Thus We have revealed it, a decisive utterance in Arabic."
{ Surat Ar-Ra'd (Chapter 13), Verse 37 }

To provide the secret of being revealed in the Arabic language, we must first say; the human race does not possess a single universal language that they share as a medium of understanding and comprehending one another. Therefore, it is completely natural that the Quran must be one of these languages by which the human beings communicate. Also, it is only befitting that the Quran be revealed in the language of the prophet that receives it, as well as the language of those being immediately addressed by it. Allah says;

"And we have not sent a messenger except with the tongue of his people so that he may make things clear to them."
{ Surat Ibraheem (Chapter 14), Verse 4 }

Having said that, the reasons for the Quran being revealed in Arabic are that;

- The Arabic language is of oldest of languages known to humankind.
- The Arabic language has established principles and systematic rules that have been unchanged for thousands of years.
- The Arabic language is the most comprehensive of languages, with the most precise and effective method of conveyance through its ocean of vocabulary, and for this reason you see that a page may be required to translate two lines of Arabic.


For this reason, the Quran contains a secret that is known by all those who have read it; a secret that touches the soul and takes it into the world of parables and the horizons of spirituality. To fall upon this wonder, the individual is not asked except to sever him/herself from the materialistic attachments and the previously acquired notions and to simply read, or even hear the Quran. Upon doing so with an interested unbiased approach, he/she will instantaneously be affected by its language and elegance. Allahsays;

"And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection (Oh Muhammad), then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah"
{ Surat At-Tawbah (Chapter 9), Verse 6 }

All that is asked is that you hear the words of Allaah, while pondering, especially when Allahhas facilitated its recitation. Allah says;

"And We have made it easy on your tongue"
{ Surat Maryam (Chapter 19), Verse 97}

Sixthly: The Quran is Arabic in Language, Universal in Message.

The Quran did not come down for the Arabs alone, but rather for all of humankind. Allahsays;

"The month of Ramadan wherein the Quran was sent down as guidance for (all) the people."
{ Surat Al-Baqarah (Chapter 2), Verse 185 }

So the Quran was sent down for all the people, and Allahchose the Arabs to carry the message in that age for a great wisdom. Allahsays;

Allah knows best where to place his message
{ Surat Al-An'aam (Chapter 7), Verse 124 }

Thus there is no doubt that this divine decision is of tremendous wisdom, and here is parts of it;

Firstly, this place has in it the first house institutionalized for all of humankind alike to turn to in its testimony to the oneness of the True God; The house that Abraham, the father of the prophets, built. Therefore it is most appropriate that the seal of revelation be sent to that very land.

Secondly, the Arabs at that time were free peoples, not controlled by any of the major empires, nor did they fall under the auspices of any dominating government that would have combated the spread of the 'new' way of life.
Thirdly, they were the best of nations gifted with the ability of precision memorization due to their linguistic depths and exposure to poetry. It was so to such an extent that it was not a feat for many of them to hear pages of poetry a single time and come away with it memorized to the letter and never forgets it.

Fourthly, the attributes of the Arabs and customs contained those which were very virtuous, such as; honesty, trustworthiness, fulfillment of promises, and sincerity. This was a result of not being poisoned by the two-faced dishonest 'diplomacy' that crowded civilizations such as those of Rome and Persia were forced to adopt due to their offensive and obscene lifestyles.
Last but not least, the choice to send the Quran amongst the Arabs is for it to be decisive indisputable evidence that it is the words of Allaah! It became in itself as evidence, when the Quran launched from a small, undeveloped, backwards nation a nation that lead the world from East to West for a period that spanned over one thousand years. Who in their right mind would ever for a moment consider it possible for uneducated Bedouin herders of sheep and camels to present the world with a book that would cause them to lead the world for over a millennia?
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:02 PM
sonz i read all your posts, its completely what i feared, the first post talks about how you MUST PRAY IN ARABIC!! don't explain why

the second talks about LEARN ARABIC ITS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!! don't explain why arabic

and the third post is just pure RACISM? ARABS ARE BETTER THEN EVERYONE ELSE type of topic,

im sick of this, arabs are not better then everyone else, and i don't think the arabic language is better then any other language!
Reply

- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 02:02 PM
sert, if you really believe that Allaah Almighty revealed the Qur'an - then it's your duty to accept it, no matter what language it's revealed in.

And if you feel that the arabs are better, then just refer back to the Qur'an again, when Allaah Almighty says:


O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Qur'an Surah Hujraat 49:13)



Peace.
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Sert, do you accept that Allah revealed the Quran to prophet Muhammad SAW and therby acknowledge that Islam is the correct path? If so, then it follows that you must also accept that Allah through Muhammad SAW taught us to pray in Arabic. Since no matter how hard we try, we can never capture the true meaning of the Quran in a tongue other than Arabic, any such prayer would be invalid (unless one is still learning).

If you think prayer is from the heart and should not be read in Arabic, then you have a more fundamental problem in emaan - as we have been ordered by Allah to use that language in prayer.
are u serious bro? how else was he ment to speak? he spoke in arabic!! its not like he was going to use chinese was he!
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by sert
sonz i read all your posts, its completely what i feared, the first post talks about how you MUST PRAY IN ARABIC!! don't explain why

the second talks about LEARN ARABIC ITS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!! don't explain why arabic

and the third post is just pure RACISM? ARABS ARE BETTER THEN EVERYONE ELSE type of topic,

im sick of this, arabs are not better then everyone else, and i don't think the arabic language is better then any other language!
sert im a nonarab so stop seeing things that arent there. its only u who has a problem with arabs or something that u completly shut off everything we tell u. no one is SAYING that arabs are better than everyone. allah says

the best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 02:05 PM
We should, as muslims, try to follow the prophet[saw] down to how he walked....I think following him in speech and culture is much more important than how he walked.
Reply

DAWUD_adnan
08-29-2006, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
this one talks about the socalled "universal language"

The language of the Quran.

The Quran came down in the Arabic language. Allah says;

"Thus We have revealed it, a decisive utterance in Arabic."
{ Surat Ar-Ra'd (Chapter 13), Verse 37 }

To provide the secret of being revealed in the Arabic language, we must first say; the human race does not possess a single universal language that they share as a medium of understanding and comprehending one another. Therefore, it is completely natural that the Quran must be one of these languages by which the human beings communicate. Also, it is only befitting that the Quran be revealed in the language of the prophet that receives it, as well as the language of those being immediately addressed by it. Allah says;

"And we have not sent a messenger except with the tongue of his people so that he may make things clear to them."
{ Surat Ibraheem (Chapter 14), Verse 4 }

Having said that, the reasons for the Quran being revealed in Arabic are that;

- The Arabic language is of oldest of languages known to humankind.
- The Arabic language has established principles and systematic rules that have been unchanged for thousands of years.
- The Arabic language is the most comprehensive of languages, with the most precise and effective method of conveyance through its ocean of vocabulary, and for this reason you see that a page may be required to translate two lines of Arabic.


For this reason, the Quran contains a secret that is known by all those who have read it; a secret that touches the soul and takes it into the world of parables and the horizons of spirituality. To fall upon this wonder, the individual is not asked except to sever him/herself from the materialistic attachments and the previously acquired notions and to simply read, or even hear the Quran. Upon doing so with an interested unbiased approach, he/she will instantaneously be affected by its language and elegance. Allahsays;

"And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection (Oh Muhammad), then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah"
{ Surat At-Tawbah (Chapter 9), Verse 6 }

All that is asked is that you hear the words of Allaah, while pondering, especially when Allahhas facilitated its recitation. Allah says;

"And We have made it easy on your tongue"
{ Surat Maryam (Chapter 19), Verse 97}

Sixthly: The Quran is Arabic in Language, Universal in Message.

The Quran did not come down for the Arabs alone, but rather for all of humankind. Allahsays;

"The month of Ramadan wherein the Quran was sent down as guidance for (all) the people."
{ Surat Al-Baqarah (Chapter 2), Verse 185 }

So the Quran was sent down for all the people, and Allahchose the Arabs to carry the message in that age for a great wisdom. Allahsays;

Allah knows best where to place his message
{ Surat Al-An'aam (Chapter 7), Verse 124 }

Thus there is no doubt that this divine decision is of tremendous wisdom, and here is parts of it;

Firstly, this place has in it the first house institutionalized for all of humankind alike to turn to in its testimony to the oneness of the True God; The house that Abraham, the father of the prophets, built. Therefore it is most appropriate that the seal of revelation be sent to that very land.

Secondly, the Arabs at that time were free peoples, not controlled by any of the major empires, nor did they fall under the auspices of any dominating government that would have combated the spread of the 'new' way of life.
Thirdly, they were the best of nations gifted with the ability of precision memorization due to their linguistic depths and exposure to poetry. It was so to such an extent that it was not a feat for many of them to hear pages of poetry a single time and come away with it memorized to the letter and never forgets it.

Fourthly, the attributes of the Arabs and customs contained those which were very virtuous, such as; honesty, trustworthiness, fulfillment of promises, and sincerity. This was a result of not being poisoned by the two-faced dishonest 'diplomacy' that crowded civilizations such as those of Rome and Persia were forced to adopt due to their offensive and obscene lifestyles.
Last but not least, the choice to send the Quran amongst the Arabs is for it to be decisive indisputable evidence that it is the words of Allaah! It became in itself as evidence, when the Quran launched from a small, undeveloped, backwards nation a nation that lead the world from East to West for a period that spanned over one thousand years. Who in their right mind would ever for a moment consider it possible for uneducated Bedouin herders of sheep and camels to present the world with a book that would cause them to lead the world for over a millennia?

i second that plus did yu see the map of the world i mean Mecca is like the centre of the world , hummmm... maybe to make it equal to all mankind from west to east that they should a l face the centre of the world like we do when we pray all of us come together to the centre mashaAllah! :offended:

come on man at least give it a thought as a muslim
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
sert, if you really believe that Allaah Almighty revealed the Qur'an - then it's your duty to accept it, no matter what language it's revealed in.

And if you feel that the arabs are better, then just refer back to the Qur'an again, when Allaah Almighty says:


O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Qur'an Surah Hujraat 49:13)




Peace.

if thats true, then how come the chinese have to pray in arabic for their salvation, surely making arabic the language of the quran makes it obvious that arabs are better then the rest of the human race!
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by sert
are u serious bro? how else was he ment to speak? he spoke in arabic!! its not like he was going to use chinese was he!
read this

It is not true that the Prophet and his companions used Arabic because it was their mother tongue. The Prophet used Arabic in prayer because he had to read the Qur'an in prayer and the Qur'an, Allah's words, is in Arabic.
http://www.guidedones.com/metapage/s...yer_arabic.htm
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
We should, as muslims, try to follow the prophet[saw] down to how he walked....I think following him in speech and culture is much more important than how he walked.

NOW THAT IS THE KIND OF strange talk im worried about!! your saying we have to follow arabic culture? are u ok bro? arabic culture? :uuh: what on earth has that got to do with islam? so what if the prophet was an arab? we was a human first! and that is what we must learn from, not how arab he was!!!
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
read this

It is not true that the Prophet and his companions used Arabic because it was their mother tongue. The Prophet used Arabic in prayer because he had to read the Qur'an in prayer and the Qur'an, Allah's words, is in Arabic.
http://www.guidedones.com/metapage/s...yer_arabic.htm
you know how ridiculous that sounds? HE WAS the person the quran was revealed to, was he going to get a chinese quran? that sentance doesn't make any sense im sorry.
Reply

- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by sert
if thats true, then how come the chinese have to pray in arabic for their salvation, surely making arabic the language of the quran makes it obvious that arabs are better then the rest of the human race!

No, it means that the qur'an was revealed in arabic, without any mistakes - in it's original form.


Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and hath allowed therein no Crookedness: (Qur'an 18:1)


Whereas every translation has mistakes in. This is why the Qur'an is recited in arabic, because that is it's original form - unlike the translations which will always have errors in.

So we recite it the way it was revealed because that is error-free insha'Allaah.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by DAWUD_adnan
i second that plus did yu see the map of the world i mean Mecca is like the centre of the world , hummmm... maybe to make it equal to all mankind from west to east that they should a l face the centre of the world like we do when we pray all of us come together to the centre mashaAllah! :offended:

come on man at least give it a thought as a muslim
the world is a sphere! it can't have a center!
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
No, it means that the qur'an was revealed in arabic, without any mistakes - in it's original form.


Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and hath allowed therein no Crookedness: (Qur'an 18:1)


Whereas every translation has mistakes in. This is why the Qur'an is recited in arabic, because that is it's original form - unlike the translations which will always have errors in.

So we recite it the way it was revealed because that is error-free insha'Allaah.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

ok as i said before, why any need for translation!!
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by sert
NOW THAT IS THE KIND OF strange talk im worried about!! your saying we have to follow arabic culture? are u ok bro? arabic culture? :uuh: what on earth has that got to do with islam? so what if the prophet was an arab? we was a human first! and that is what we must learn from, not how arab he was!!!
no one said we have to follow him in exactly only what he has ordered us to do and is beneficial for the hereafter.

u havent answered my questions

do u want to recite the exact words revealed in the quran OR DO U WANT TO RECITE SOMEONE ELSE TRANSLATIONS when ur doing prayer. just answer that question

why was the gospel revealed in aramaic, why was the torah revealed hewbrew.

how can u achieve this "univeral message". why didnt allah create 1 type of people instead of different types of people and why not 1 type of language instead of different type of languages

just answer them
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by sert
if thats true, then how come the chinese have to pray in arabic for their salvation, surely making arabic the language of the quran makes it obvious that arabs are better then the rest of the human race!
I hate to say this, but are you assuming?

Look at what Allah says about the arabs:

The wandering Arabs are more hard in disbelief and hypocrisy, and more likely to be ignorant of the limits which Allah hath revealed unto His messenger... And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness--Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him... Take alms of their wealth, wherewith thou mayst purify them and mayst make them grow, and pray for them. Lo! thy prayer is an assuagement for them... And (there are) others who await Allah's decree, whether He will punish them or will forgive them... And as for those who chose a place of worship out of opposition and disbelief, and in order to cause dissent among the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His messenger aforetime, they will surely swear: We purposed naught save good. Allah beareth witness that they verily are liars. Never stand to pray there... Surah at Taubah ayahs 95-110

someone should have raised this before :rant:
Reply

- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by sert
ok as i said before, why any need for translation!!

The reason we need translation is because the people who don't know the arabic language, they can try to get a basic idea of what the Qur'an is. Or for people who might not know arabic as beginners.

But when a person want's to go into gaining islamic knowledge - then they should know the arabic language so that they can understand the Qur'an properly - the way it was revealed (without any crookedness/mistakes etc.)



Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
no one said we have to follow him in exactly only what he has ordered us to do and is beneficial for the hereafter.

u havent answered my questions

do u want to recite the exact words revealed in the quran OR DO U WANT TO RECITE SOMEONE ELSE TRANSLATIONS when ur doing prayer. just answer that question


why was the gospel revealed in aramaic, why was the torah revealed hewbrew.

how can u achieve this "univeral message". why didnt allah create 1 type of people instead of different types of people and why not 1 type of language instead of different type of languages

just answer them
im not saying i want to do this or that! im asking why do we have to speak arabic for our salvation when we pray? im not interested in translations or whatever, im saying why not just deliever the message, why arabic?


you tell me

i don't know, you tell me, why allah didn't make something that is universal, why did he chose teh arabs above the rest of mankind?
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 02:23 PM
chk this excellent article

By Abul A`la Mawdudi

Translated by Mushfiqur Rahman

Question

A Sikh friend of mine was given some literature to read. While reading it, he raised this objection: “You say that Allah speaks to the prophets and through these special people He sent a universal way of life for all mankind. The question is, why is such an important way of life prescribed in this one particular language [Arabic], which is used only in one particular geographic location? Why could not that Almighty Allah create one universal language for all of mankind so that all people could benefit from that equally? Arabic Qur'an is certainly beneficial for the Arabs only.”

Answer

Had your Sikh friend who raised this objection pushed his imagination a bit further, he could have also asked “Why did God not send a copy of the Qur'an directly to every human being? Since He is the Almighty, He could have done this too!”


These people actually do not try to understand one basic point: For guiding the humanity, Allah Almighty does not adopt a method that would require an alteration in the natural workings and systems of the universe. The variety of languages, and due to that the emergence of various small and large ethnic groups—all this is but a natural phenomenon which came into existence by the will of Allah. And in this are lots of benefits and goodness that Allah would not want to destroy. Yes, He is the Almighty, but He is also the Wise. In His universe, things are running under a perfect set of laws and principles. Due to these principles, variance between languages, cultures, and traditions emerges. Even if Allah had created some separate type of language, that still could not have been the mother tongue of all nationalities, nor could the literature in that language affect and influence the minds of all people on earth. They would not have appreciated the beauty of that language [as one appreciates one’s mother tongue]. If Allah—by some supernatural way—eliminated all the mother tongues of all people and then imposed, supernaturally, one language on the entire humanity, then that is a different matter. However, since one action of Allah does not come to nullify another action of His, He has sent guidance to humanity while sustaining the natural systems and frameworks of all languages.

Arabic Qur'an can only be beneficial for the Arabs—this allegation could have been true had Allah only sent a book. But the reality is that Allah sent the book together with a guide. That guide first addressed a particular nation in whose language the book came. Then, according to the prescriptions laid in the book, he educated them, purified them, gave them practical training, and completely reshaped their lives in a full social revolution. Then he charged them with this responsibility that they, on his behalf, would transmit this guidance to other nations, educate them, purify them, train them, and reshape their lives the same way as he had done to them. Thus, once one nation adopts this ideal, it would bear the responsibility of taking it to other nations. This was the natural way for universalizing that teaching and guidance. Every great movement of the world that wanted to universalize its teaching has adopted this same method, be that a movement to establish God’s way or any other type of movement.

If one accepts the argument that a book is only beneficial for the particular nation in whose language it is written, then one will have to consider the history of all the sciences of the world as wrong. All the books of the world will need to be divided and segregated according to language. All the benefits of translations and various mediums of international mass communications will have to be denied. Yet, it is through these mediums that the messages of great world movements and the words of great leaders are reaching the far corners of the earth. Then what crime did the book of Muhammad commit that it has to be considered confined only for the Arabs just because it is in Arabic?

If one is still not assured after this and he thinks that Allah should have done things as he thought He should have, then he has the right to remain firm in his opinion. But the question is, if by putting up such questions as hindrance one does not benefit from a book or a message, then whose loss is it? This is not the policy of the truth seekers. They search for the ray of light everywhere and from all sources. If one closes one’s mind with one objection or another against every book or teaching, then one will not be able to make even a single step on life’s simple and straight path.

http://www.islamonline.net/english/Q...rticle01.shtml
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
I hate to say this, but are you assuming?

Look at what Allah says about the arabs:

The wandering Arabs are more hard in disbelief and hypocrisy, and more likely to be ignorant of the limits which Allah hath revealed unto His messenger... And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness--Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him... Take alms of their wealth, wherewith thou mayst purify them and mayst make them grow, and pray for them. Lo! thy prayer is an assuagement for them... And (there are) others who await Allah's decree, whether He will punish them or will forgive them... And as for those who chose a place of worship out of opposition and disbelief, and in order to cause dissent among the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His messenger aforetime, they will surely swear: We purposed naught save good. Allah beareth witness that they verily are liars. Never stand to pray there... Surah at Taubah ayahs 95-110

someone should have raised this before :rant:

what does he say then,? arabic is still the language of prayer for salvation, that makes arabs which arabic came from better then the whole of human race
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
The reason we need translation is because the people who don't know the arabic language, they can try to get a basic idea of what the Qur'an is. Or for people who might not know arabic as beginners.

But when a person want's to go into gaining islamic knowledge - then they should know the arabic language so that they can understand the Qur'an properly - the way it was revealed (without any crookedness/mistakes etc.)



Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

why any need for a translation? if the original is universal? can't u see what im trying to say?
Reply

DAWUD_adnan
08-29-2006, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE=sert;470084]if thats true, then how come the chinese have to pray in arabic for their salvation, surely making arabic the language of the quran makes it obvious that arabs are better then the rest of the human race![/QUOTE

NEVER CHANGE ALLAH'S WORD, and arabic is like the centre language of mankind cus arab's are from the centre of the world if you look at the world map. besides yu as a muslim should no that mankind is equal in everything except faith and righteousness, so being a non arab doesnt make yu less of a muslim heck it may even give yu an even higher reward because yu had to study it and learn something yu have never seen before, meaning yu had to work harder for Allah meaning a bigger reward you should feel glad and not be jealous , remember iblis? he rejected Allah's Word thus he became rejected and accursed because he thought he was better than Adam because.. you know why , look, to make it simple why did Allah order the angels to bow down to Adam? we dont know.. only Allah knows, that what our Lord said to angels they accepted saying ''Glory to Thee thou Knowest All while we are know not'' or something similar but iblis was jealous, Allah has a reason for everything HE does and we are not to question it ''do not follow the ways of satan for he is an enemy to you'' -''but worship ME this is the straight way'' and worship is devotion without question know that Allah is All Just and All Knowing everything is a test it is up to you to follow or not your choice only YOU will be effected will you be like the Angels and do as our Lord exactly said or will you be like satan and be arrogant? hope not:grumbling
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by sert
why any need for a translation? if the original is universal? can't u see what im trying to say?
read

By Abul A`la Mawdudi

Translated by Mushfiqur Rahman

Question

A Sikh friend of mine was given some literature to read. While reading it, he raised this objection: “You say that Allah speaks to the prophets and through these special people He sent a universal way of life for all mankind. The question is, why is such an important way of life prescribed in this one particular language [Arabic], which is used only in one particular geographic location? Why could not that Almighty Allah create one universal language for all of mankind so that all people could benefit from that equally? Arabic Qur'an is certainly beneficial for the Arabs only.”

Answer

Had your Sikh friend who raised this objection pushed his imagination a bit further, he could have also asked “Why did God not send a copy of the Qur'an directly to every human being? Since He is the Almighty, He could have done this too!”


These people actually do not try to understand one basic point: For guiding the humanity, Allah Almighty does not adopt a method that would require an alteration in the natural workings and systems of the universe. The variety of languages, and due to that the emergence of various small and large ethnic groups—all this is but a natural phenomenon which came into existence by the will of Allah. And in this are lots of benefits and goodness that Allah would not want to destroy. Yes, He is the Almighty, but He is also the Wise. In His universe, things are running under a perfect set of laws and principles. Due to these principles, variance between languages, cultures, and traditions emerges. Even if Allah had created some separate type of language, that still could not have been the mother tongue of all nationalities, nor could the literature in that language affect and influence the minds of all people on earth. They would not have appreciated the beauty of that language [as one appreciates one’s mother tongue]. If Allah—by some supernatural way—eliminated all the mother tongues of all people and then imposed, supernaturally, one language on the entire humanity, then that is a different matter. However, since one action of Allah does not come to nullify another action of His, He has sent guidance to humanity while sustaining the natural systems and frameworks of all languages.

Arabic Qur'an can only be beneficial for the Arabs—this allegation could have been true had Allah only sent a book. But the reality is that Allah sent the book together with a guide. That guide first addressed a particular nation in whose language the book came. Then, according to the prescriptions laid in the book, he educated them, purified them, gave them practical training, and completely reshaped their lives in a full social revolution. Then he charged them with this responsibility that they, on his behalf, would transmit this guidance to other nations, educate them, purify them, train them, and reshape their lives the same way as he had done to them. Thus, once one nation adopts this ideal, it would bear the responsibility of taking it to other nations. This was the natural way for universalizing that teaching and guidance. Every great movement of the world that wanted to universalize its teaching has adopted this same method, be that a movement to establish God’s way or any other type of movement.

If one accepts the argument that a book is only beneficial for the particular nation in whose language it is written, then one will have to consider the history of all the sciences of the world as wrong. All the books of the world will need to be divided and segregated according to language. All the benefits of translations and various mediums of international mass communications will have to be denied. Yet, it is through these mediums that the messages of great world movements and the words of great leaders are reaching the far corners of the earth. Then what crime did the book of Muhammad commit that it has to be considered confined only for the Arabs just because it is in Arabic?

If one is still not assured after this and he thinks that Allah should have done things as he thought He should have, then he has the right to remain firm in his opinion. But the question is, if by putting up such questions as hindrance one does not benefit from a book or a message, then whose loss is it? This is not the policy of the truth seekers. They search for the ray of light everywhere and from all sources. If one closes one’s mind with one objection or another against every book or teaching, then one will not be able to make even a single step on life’s simple and straight path.

http://www.islamonline.net/english/Q...rticle01.shtml
Reply

- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by sert
why did he chose teh arabs above the rest of mankind?

The arabs were the most suited to the conditions to recieve the message and to spread it.

This is because all the ignorance and injustice that was there, they needed guidance. They were simple people so they never had philosophies (like the romans, greeks etc. did) They never had major kingdom (unlike the Persians) and they were poor, yet strong. They were true to their word/honest people, and cared about their honor. They kept this honor by staying strong with their kinship and clan.

There qualities were good in a way; They were simple people - so the idea of islam made them understand islam in it's true form, they never had proper leaders so Muhammad (peace be upon him) became their leader [at the end of the message], they were honest and truthful people - so they never lied and spread the message in truth, and they knew that if they lied - it would be a loss of their honor. They upheld the ties of kinship or clans, which was a good strength because when the muslims were united, they lookaftered each other and would be prepared to sacrifice their lives to protect their brethren.


you see how Allaah Almighty prepared the arabs to recieve the revelation, and to spread it? And realise that the only ones that Allaah loved from among them were the ones that had taqwa (fear of Allah/God consciessness.)



Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:32 PM
sonz you have to agree this is a bit of a fitna,

allah says the islam is for everyone, then reveals it in arabic,
what is happening?
Reply

- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by sert
why any need for a translation? if the original is universal? can't u see what im trying to say?

Allaah Almighty doesn't need to change His sunnah, to reveal the scripture. The same way Allaah has created islam a different religion to others, and made people born into other religions. Only the one's who want to accept the truth, they will accept it and follow it.

The same way Allaah has made the Qur'an in arabic, and the ones who are sincere in wanting to accept islam will try to learn it so they can gain the knowledge without any mistakes. Whereas the one who isn't as sincere may not try whatsoever, and if the person takes the first step - Allaah will make that path easy for him/her.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 02:35 PM
let's not post anymore loooong articles, let's use our own brains and hands to help this brother to understand....Giving dawah is a long and labourous process....We must have patience.
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by sert
sonz you have to agree this is a bit of a fitna,

allah says the islam is for everyone, then reveals it in arabic,
what is happening?
plz comment on the article that ive posted. if u still dont understand then ur imaginations are running wild lol. just read and reflect.

masalama

By Abul A`la Mawdudi

Translated by Mushfiqur Rahman

Question

A Sikh friend of mine was given some literature to read. While reading it, he raised this objection: “You say that Allah speaks to the prophets and through these special people He sent a universal way of life for all mankind. The question is, why is such an important way of life prescribed in this one particular language [Arabic], which is used only in one particular geographic location? Why could not that Almighty Allah create one universal language for all of mankind so that all people could benefit from that equally? Arabic Qur'an is certainly beneficial for the Arabs only.”

Answer

Had your Sikh friend who raised this objection pushed his imagination a bit further, he could have also asked “Why did God not send a copy of the Qur'an directly to every human being? Since He is the Almighty, He could have done this too!”


These people actually do not try to understand one basic point: For guiding the humanity, Allah Almighty does not adopt a method that would require an alteration in the natural workings and systems of the universe. The variety of languages, and due to that the emergence of various small and large ethnic groups—all this is but a natural phenomenon which came into existence by the will of Allah. And in this are lots of benefits and goodness that Allah would not want to destroy. Yes, He is the Almighty, but He is also the Wise. In His universe, things are running under a perfect set of laws and principles. Due to these principles, variance between languages, cultures, and traditions emerges. Even if Allah had created some separate type of language, that still could not have been the mother tongue of all nationalities, nor could the literature in that language affect and influence the minds of all people on earth. They would not have appreciated the beauty of that language [as one appreciates one’s mother tongue]. If Allah—by some supernatural way—eliminated all the mother tongues of all people and then imposed, supernaturally, one language on the entire humanity, then that is a different matter. However, since one action of Allah does not come to nullify another action of His, He has sent guidance to humanity while sustaining the natural systems and frameworks of all languages.

Arabic Qur'an can only be beneficial for the Arabs—this allegation could have been true had Allah only sent a book. But the reality is that Allah sent the book together with a guide. That guide first addressed a particular nation in whose language the book came. Then, according to the prescriptions laid in the book, he educated them, purified them, gave them practical training, and completely reshaped their lives in a full social revolution. Then he charged them with this responsibility that they, on his behalf, would transmit this guidance to other nations, educate them, purify them, train them, and reshape their lives the same way as he had done to them. Thus, once one nation adopts this ideal, it would bear the responsibility of taking it to other nations. This was the natural way for universalizing that teaching and guidance. Every great movement of the world that wanted to universalize its teaching has adopted this same method, be that a movement to establish God’s way or any other type of movement.

If one accepts the argument that a book is only beneficial for the particular nation in whose language it is written, then one will have to consider the history of all the sciences of the world as wrong. All the books of the world will need to be divided and segregated according to language. All the benefits of translations and various mediums of international mass communications will have to be denied. Yet, it is through these mediums that the messages of great world movements and the words of great leaders are reaching the far corners of the earth. Then what crime did the book of Muhammad commit that it has to be considered confined only for the Arabs just because it is in Arabic?

If one is still not assured after this and he thinks that Allah should have done things as he thought He should have, then he has the right to remain firm in his opinion. But the question is, if by putting up such questions as hindrance one does not benefit from a book or a message, then whose loss is it? This is not the policy of the truth seekers. They search for the ray of light everywhere and from all sources. If one closes one’s mind with one objection or another against every book or teaching, then one will not be able to make even a single step on life’s simple and straight path.

http://www.islamonline.net/english/Q...rticle01.shtml
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:38 PM
[QUOTE=DAWUD_adnan;470162]
Originally Posted by sert
if thats true, then how come the chinese have to pray in arabic for their salvation, surely making arabic the language of the quran makes it obvious that arabs are better then the rest of the human race![/QUOTE

NEVER CHANGE ALLAH'S WORD, and arabic is like the centre language of mankind cus arab's are from the centre of the world if you look at the world map. besides yu as a muslim should no that mankind is equal in everything except faith and righteousness, so being a non arab doesnt make yu less of a muslim heck it may even give yu an even higher reward because yu had to study it and learn something yu have never seen before, meaning yu had to work harder for Allah meaning a bigger reward you should feel glad and not be jealous , remember iblis? he rejected Allah's Word thus he became rejected and accursed because he thought he was better than Adam because.. you know why , look, to make it simple why did Allah order the angels to bow down to Adam? we dont know.. only Allah knows, that what our Lord said to angels they accepted saying ''Glory to Thee thou Knowest All while we are know not'' or something similar but iblis was jealous, Allah has a reason for everything HE does and we are not to question it ''do not follow the ways of satan for he is an enemy to you'' -''but worship ME this is the straight way'' and worship is devotion without question know that Allah is All Just and All Knowing everything is a test it is up to you to follow or not your choice only YOU will be effected will you be like the Angels and do as our Lord exactly said or will you be like satan and be arrogant? hope not:grumbling
the issue is i don't want arabic to be the language of my salvation, how can arabic which is from the arabs, be the language for the salvation of the whole world?
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
The arabs were the most suited to the conditions to recieve the message and to spread it.

This is because all the ignorance and injustice that was there, they needed guidance. They were simple people so they never had philosophies (like the romans, greeks etc. did) They never had major kingdom (unlike the Persians) and they were poor, yet strong. They were true to their word/honest people, and cared about their honor. They kept this honor by staying strong with their kinship and clan.

There qualities were good in a way; They were simple people - so the idea of islam made them understand islam in it's true form, they never had proper leaders so Muhammad (peace be upon him) became their leader [at the end of the message], they were honest and truthful people - so they never lied and spread the message in truth, and they knew that if they lied - it would be a loss of their honor. They upheld the ties of kinship or clans, which was a good strength because when the muslims were united, they lookaftered each other and would be prepared to sacrifice their lives to protect their brethren.


you see how Allaah Almighty prepared the arabs to recieve the revelation, and to spread it? And realise that the only ones that Allaah loved from among them were the ones that had taqwa (fear of Allah/God consciessness.)



Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.
so all the other races are liers hey?
Reply

- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 02:45 PM
sert- it seems like all you want to do is attack every word we say. If you're really sincere in wanting to find out the truth, then you should keep an open mind insha'Allaah.

The arabs were truthful people i said, hence that was also another good trait of theirs. I never said that they were chosen just because of their truthfulness.


Peace.
Reply

DAWUD_adnan
08-29-2006, 02:51 PM
[QUOTE=sert;470181]
Originally Posted by DAWUD_adnan

the issue is i don't want arabic to be the language of my salvation, how can arabic which is from the arabs, be the language for the salvation of the whole world?
dude listen, its the most elequent language in the world so in the this sense you can use one word for like 40 other or 40 other for one word , and remember muslim's say" we hear and we obey'' and kafirs say"we hear and we disobey'' which one would you be its so simple get together and visist this link this wmight help you :http://quranicverse99.tripod.com/pat...adise/id2.html
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 02:52 PM
im fed up of this, you people are not understanding me!! while i understand exactly what your saying it just isn't making sense, how obvious can this get! allah says islam is a religion for everyone and you are all equal, then allah reveals his message in one language, which goes against the previous statement that you are all equal, becuase now we have to pray in arabic, prayer (salah) is one of the pillars of islam, and it must be done in arabic!! so that makes arabic fundamental for your salvation in the next world, I FIND THAT SCARY!! isn't islam ment to be about your belief rather then your action? why did allah choose arabic to reveal the most important thing to mankind namely their salvation in the next world? what does this mean? this can only mean that arabs are some how better then the rest of us, or that allah loves them more then the rest of mankind, i don't want to be an arab, i don't want to copy their culture, i want islam but not arabic. why has allah made the two practicly the same thing?
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 02:56 PM
goodbye serf ;)

Have a nice experience wth your missionary job....muslims aren't stupid....and no this is not a bit of a fitnah....;D ROFL!
Reply

DAWUD_adnan
08-29-2006, 02:57 PM
dont forget arabs arent exactly the best people in the world even if the Divine Revelation has descended in their language their are still jewish arabs and christians arabs who has Allah favourd you who He has made a muslim or those who He has made christians or jewish? you are the lucky one! dont forget paradise has no price tag on it because only those will enter who Allah has favoured. think you have to study harder to learn arabic you get more reward, not the once of whom it is their mother tongue but who deny the Truth. but something tells me your diffrent form other muslims.....
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
goodbye serf ;)

Have a nice experience wth your missionary job....muslims aren't stupid....and no this is not a bit of a fitnah....;D ROFL!

r u saying im christian, ^o)

ashahuan la illaha illalah ashadu an a muhammad russullah,

r u satisfied? im a muslim, jesus is not the son of god, he is his prophet.
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by DAWUD_adnan
dont forget arabs arent exactly the best people in the world even if the Divine Revelation has descended in their language their are still jewish arabs and christians arabs who has Allah favourd you who He has made a muslim or those who He has made christians or jewish? you are the lucky one! dont forget paradise has no price tag on it because only those will enter who Allah has favoured. think you have to study harder to learn arabic you get more reward, not the once of whom it is their mother tongue but who deny the Truth. but something tells me your diffrent form other muslims.....
ok answer this then?
do i need arabic to go to jannaah?
Reply

- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 03:03 PM
We've mentioned before with proof from the Qur'an that Allaah doesn't prefer the arab's over any other race. It's upto you to accept that now.


ok answer this then?
do i need arabic to go to jannaah?

It depends what you mean, but to answer your question [which you may be indirectly asking] - performing salaah needs arabic, hence you do need to know arabic to be a practising muslim.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

Safa
08-29-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by sert
allah says the islam is for everyone, then reveals it in arabic,
what is happening?
This isn't really a legitimate question. He reveals it in Arabic so the Arabs of that time could understand. Now revealing it to them in English wouldn't really help them now would it? It's not upto us to decide why Allah didn't reveal the Quran in any other language. Even if He did, I bet people would be complaining anyway.

This isn't about you, jannah will not be presented to you in a platter, you have to work hard for it. Getting close to your creator spiritually is not an easy task. Alhamdulillah you are a Muslim, but it does not end here for you, or for any other Muslim for that matter. It's good that you're asking questions but it's better to have an open mind as well.

Practising Islam does not mean practising Arabic culture. You might want to look more into Islam before making these judgements. Good luck.

:w:
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
We've mentioned before with proof from the Qur'an that Allaah doesn't prefer the arab's over any other race. It's upto you to accept that now.


Peace.
ok answer me this simple question, yes or no

do i need arabic to enter jannaah?
Reply

lavikor201
08-29-2006, 03:06 PM
In Islam you cannot pray in any language you like?
Reply

- Qatada -
08-29-2006, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
In Islam you cannot pray in any language you like?

Salaah (the 5 daily prayers) are performed in arabic, and supplication/dua' can be prayed in any language a person desires insha'Allaah.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Safa
This isn't really a legitimate question. He reveals it in Arabic so the Arabs of that time could understand. Now revealing it to them in English wouldn't really help them now would it? It's not upto us to decide why Allah didn't reveal the Quran in any other language. Even if He did, I bet people would be complaining anyway.

This isn't about you, jannah will not be presented to you in a platter, you have to work hard for it. Getting close to your creator spiritually is not an easy task. Alhamdulillah you are a Muslim, but it does not end here for you, or for any other Muslim for that matter. It's good that you're asking questions but it's better to have an open mind as well.

Practising Islam does not mean practising Arabic culture. You might want to look more into Islam before making these judgements. Good luck.

:w:
i don't want it revealed in anylanguage, as that would be a bais and favoritism towards that group of people!


ok thanks for the luck, i see i will be needing it, as opposed to you! :rollseyes
Reply

DAWUD_adnan
08-29-2006, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by sert
i don't care believe what u want, i just done shahda and said jesus is not the son of god, and u think ims till cristian, watever man,

would you like to change the Word of Allah? for your own purposes? that's what happened to the christians cmon man thats exaclty what Allah never wants!
he is HOLY Above ALL!
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 03:19 PM
who is changing the word of allah? im asking why in arabic?
Reply

Muhammad
08-29-2006, 03:31 PM
:sl:

The Qur'an would have to be revealed in some language or another, for how else would Allaah communicate to mankind? What you are really asking is, why is the Qur'an revealed in one language only. Well considering the manner and place in which it was revealed, it is only appropriate that the Qur'an be revealed in one language.

It isn't that hard to learn a new language anyway, and there are also translations that help people to understand it. Many, many people have managed this task, so there really is no reason to complain at all.
Reply

sonz
08-29-2006, 03:34 PM
why ru ignoring this article sert

By Abul A`la Mawdudi

Translated by Mushfiqur Rahman

Question

A Sikh friend of mine was given some literature to read. While reading it, he raised this objection: “You say that Allah speaks to the prophets and through these special people He sent a universal way of life for all mankind. The question is, why is such an important way of life prescribed in this one particular language [Arabic], which is used only in one particular geographic location? Why could not that Almighty Allah create one universal language for all of mankind so that all people could benefit from that equally? Arabic Qur'an is certainly beneficial for the Arabs only.”

Answer

Had your Sikh friend who raised this objection pushed his imagination a bit further, he could have also asked “Why did God not send a copy of the Qur'an directly to every human being? Since He is the Almighty, He could have done this too!”


These people actually do not try to understand one basic point: For guiding the humanity, Allah Almighty does not adopt a method that would require an alteration in the natural workings and systems of the universe. The variety of languages, and due to that the emergence of various small and large ethnic groups—all this is but a natural phenomenon which came into existence by the will of Allah. And in this are lots of benefits and goodness that Allah would not want to destroy. Yes, He is the Almighty, but He is also the Wise. In His universe, things are running under a perfect set of laws and principles. Due to these principles, variance between languages, cultures, and traditions emerges. Even if Allah had created some separate type of language, that still could not have been the mother tongue of all nationalities, nor could the literature in that language affect and influence the minds of all people on earth. They would not have appreciated the beauty of that language [as one appreciates one’s mother tongue]. If Allah—by some supernatural way—eliminated all the mother tongues of all people and then imposed, supernaturally, one language on the entire humanity, then that is a different matter. However, since one action of Allah does not come to nullify another action of His, He has sent guidance to humanity while sustaining the natural systems and frameworks of all languages.

Arabic Qur'an can only be beneficial for the Arabs—this allegation could have been true had Allah only sent a book. But the reality is that Allah sent the book together with a guide. That guide first addressed a particular nation in whose language the book came. Then, according to the prescriptions laid in the book, he educated them, purified them, gave them practical training, and completely reshaped their lives in a full social revolution. Then he charged them with this responsibility that they, on his behalf, would transmit this guidance to other nations, educate them, purify them, train them, and reshape their lives the same way as he had done to them. Thus, once one nation adopts this ideal, it would bear the responsibility of taking it to other nations. This was the natural way for universalizing that teaching and guidance. Every great movement of the world that wanted to universalize its teaching has adopted this same method, be that a movement to establish God’s way or any other type of movement.

If one accepts the argument that a book is only beneficial for the particular nation in whose language it is written, then one will have to consider the history of all the sciences of the world as wrong. All the books of the world will need to be divided and segregated according to language. All the benefits of translations and various mediums of international mass communications will have to be denied. Yet, it is through these mediums that the messages of great world movements and the words of great leaders are reaching the far corners of the earth. Then what crime did the book of Muhammad commit that it has to be considered confined only for the Arabs just because it is in Arabic?

If one is still not assured after this and he thinks that Allah should have done things as he thought He should have, then he has the right to remain firm in his opinion. But the question is, if by putting up such questions as hindrance one does not benefit from a book or a message, then whose loss is it? This is not the policy of the truth seekers. They search for the ray of light everywhere and from all sources. If one closes one’s mind with one objection or another against every book or teaching, then one will not be able to make even a single step on life’s simple and straight path.

http://www.islamonline.net/english/Q...rticle01.shtml
Reply

salimswati
08-29-2006, 03:34 PM
islam is the religion of all world not only for arab.
thanks
salim swati
dherai swat
Reply

sert
08-29-2006, 03:39 PM
[MAD]you people keep repeating the same old thing! [/MAD]
Reply

AhlaamBella
08-29-2006, 03:42 PM
*Eyes Widen* Brother calm down.
Reply

seeker_of_ilm
08-29-2006, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by sert
we i been writing for 8 pages, i explained myself very clearly, and these people have just copied and pasted stuff from some Q and A sessions, im sick of it! why don't they try to understand what im talking about b4 they do anything else!
:sl:

People can only answer your question, but they can't make you listen. If you read the posts with an open mind, then you would realise that your questions have been answered.
Reply

seeker_of_ilm
08-29-2006, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by sert
why would i continue if they have been answered? i will be the judge of that! not you !
:sl:

You have been given clear concise proof. Yet you still have baseless allegations that the Quran being revealed in Arabic, and the fact that we should pray it in the original form, ultimately amounts to racism! It was with the will of Allah, accept it.
Reply

Muhammad
08-29-2006, 04:52 PM
:sl:

im sorry to say but all your arguments have been useless! all you do is reapeat the same stuff, again and again, listen why do i need arabic as my salvation in the hereafter? u can't answer my question, so forget it,
The reason why there is repetition is because you are repeating the question. If people provide Q&A's, they still serve as answers. It is not the fault of others if you do not wish to read.

By the way, nobody said you need arabic for your "salvation". Knowing arabic will most certainly further your understanding and knowledge, but Allaah does not burden anyone beyond their capacity. All that people have said is that prayers must be offered in Arabic, not that a person must become an Arabic grammarian.
Reply

afriend
08-29-2006, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
:sl:

The reason why there is repetition is because you are repeating the question. If people provide Q&A's, they still serve as answers. It is not the fault of others if you do not wish to read.

By the way, nobody said you need arabic for your "salvation". Knowing arabic will most certainly further your understanding and knowledge, but Allaah does not burden anyone beyond their capacity. All that people have said is that prayers must be offered in Arabic, not that a person must become an Arabic grammarian.
Yes, Allah has made it very easy for us! All you need to do is learn what is required of you such as a few surahs from the Quraan minimum. As well as a few other supplications which will be needed in salaah.

I know many reverts who found that extremely hard, but they still managed to do it, they too asked the same question, and when they were given quotes from the Quraan that was enough for them as proof, they did not use this question as an excuse to by pass the requirements.
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AhlaamBella
08-29-2006, 05:02 PM
I found it easy to learn to recite arabic in my salah etc. but my mum found it difficult.
Reply

Al-Zaara
08-29-2006, 05:04 PM
:salamext:

Maybe this will help... :?
Source: http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post470394


[PIE]1. The mind is able to understand and process speech. "Do you (Muslims) expect that they (Jews) will be believers, while some of them used to listen to the revelation of Allah (Torah), then intentionally tamper with it, while they understood it and knew it was the Truth?" [2:75]. "We have revealed it an Arabic Qur'an, that you may understand." [12:2] The reason the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic was so that the minds of the people upon whom it was descended would be able to grasp it and appreciate its meanings.[/PIE]

:wasalamex
Reply

Woodrow
08-29-2006, 06:17 PM
From what I understand through out the ages Allah(swt) has sent Messengers to all the nations. It has been repeated many times. since the message was sent to all nations I would say that at various times it was given to Non-Arabic speaking people.

With that said the only existing complete message of Allah(swt) is the Qur'an. Which was revealed in Arabic. I do not see that as a discrimination I see it as being the only form it which it has survived without change.

No language can be completly translated into anyother language. so now that we have the Qur'an we need to either learn Arabic or be content to settle for translations that are not the word of Allah(swt).
Reply

جوري
08-30-2006, 03:33 PM
Mesopotamia was the birth place of civilization, it would make sense that the languages of enlightenment would be Semitic of sort and that the messengers would speak those said language.... English as we know it didn't even exist in this form it is in today 600 years ago ... things get added, things get subtracted.... not so with Arabic, I can't speak for Hebrew or Aramaic as I don't know ... but the language of the Qur'an though extremely sophisticated and difficult at times, is still pretty much spoken today unaltered ... this makes it eas(ier) to and spread out to man kind ... there is no corner of the universe that this message can't reach or be transliterated into as close to the original as possible ... without lots being lost in between... Why does every debate turn contentious? I am almost afraid to browse the web or search a blog from the lack of civility amidst debaters...
Reply

Allah-creation
08-30-2006, 09:51 PM
Arabs did not creat the language of Arabic. Allah(SWT) did.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-30-2006, 10:14 PM
The Arabic language is purely unique. Other languages cant even support all of the words. Even non muslims appreciate the beauty of its calligraphy...i dunno why this thread went so nuts in the start! gave me a migraine...
Reply

Serene
08-31-2006, 12:53 PM
Salaam all,

Here is some thoughts I had about the subject, you amy wanna read on, and tell me what you think:


• If Arabic was the language of islam, how come that a large number of muslims now are non-Arabic speaking muslims? How come the religion soak into their inner beings while they received it in any language other than Arabic?
• Why see it as a shortcoming when it is an asset and a great blessing. I’m an Arabic speaking born muslim, and the idea that there are millions of muslims who strived to be muslims, know about islam, or try to learn about Qur’an in a language other than their own, makes it clear that my reckoning won’t be the same as theirs. For how come for a man who is given the fruit over a plate to be the same as the one who strives to pick it from the tree?
• Who could claim that guidance is an intellectual effort? It is true that Allah has blessed us with brains to think and ponder, but no t even the most intelligent intellectuals were guided to the Straight Path except those whom ALLAH chose to be guided, Arabs and non-Arabs alike; or how about non-muslim Arabs?
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~Stranger~
09-02-2006, 05:29 PM
sonz are you saying that arabic is better then all the other languages in the world? if so then you are indirectly saying that the arabs are better then all the other human races.
no i dont think anyone said anything like that!
they're talking about arabic as a language not the arabs.......
Reply

snakelegs
09-05-2006, 01:33 AM
well, i will stick my kafir nose in here.
there is something wonderful about the idea that for well over 1000 years people have been reciting the same words in the same language and now muslims all over the world are saying the same words 5 times a day.
i dunno - i think that's cool in itself.
Reply

Woodrow
09-05-2006, 02:05 AM
I just came to the conclusion this is a topic and a subtopic. Some of us have placed the horse in front of the cart and a sub topicis being debated before is being debated before the Topic has even been mentioned:


WHY WAS THE QUR'AN REVEALED IN ONE LANGUAGE?
1.WHY WAS ARABIC CHOSEN?
a. is this a hardship for people wanting to learn about Islam?

My simple opinions:

It makes since that once people understood the word of Allah(swt), it would be best to keep it just in that one language as trying to interpret back or forth among languages will result in error.

I don't think it is so much that Arabic was chosen as it is Arabic remained unchanged.

It is far from a hardship to learn the small amount of Arabic required to understand the Qur'an. Even less to just feel and hear the beauty.
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F.Y.
09-05-2006, 03:45 AM
sert - you keep saying that you need Arabic for 'salvation'. I think you may have misunderstood there. The thing we need for salvation is good deeds and a good heart. Arabic is our 'national language' if you like, so even though there are different languages due to different races being muslim, our national langauge is Arabic.

You can always make dua in English or whatever other languages you speak. It is only a matter of salah, where we speak in the lanagueg revealed in the Quran.
Its no biggie mate. We can be multilingual eh?

Peace
Reply

chitownmuslim
09-05-2006, 06:17 AM
I heard a Shiekh say that if ur a non-arab and you make the effort to learn arabic so that you can recite the Quran, than Allah (swt) will reward you more than an arab who recites the Quran since it not ur language.
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chitownmuslim
09-05-2006, 06:34 AM
And with all due respect Bro. Sert, I think if you had strong iman you would put this issue behind you its really not that hard to understand, the post with Dr. Zakir Naiks explanation answers your question completely. Why is the American Constitution written in English? Theres many people in the US who speak Spanish... You get my point?
Islam never gave superiority to Arabs over non- arabs bro, and this well documented. Im an Arab and I attend a mosque where the 2 Imams are Pakistani and African, I pray behind these imams (may Allah be pleased with them) and take the vast majority of my knowledge and fiqh from them, and this is the beauty of Islam.
Reply

Malaikah
09-05-2006, 07:01 AM
:sl:

Sert, i just wanted to make a few points:

1. If the Quran was revealed in a 'language' like maths, how on earth would we be able to understand it?? And btw, i dont know about you, but i wasnt born doing calculus, i had to learn it, just like some people would have to learn arabic to read that Quran in its original version. Furthermore, you cant learn maths without learning a different language first. At least arabic can be leanred from a very young age and doesnt require a person to be talented (most people are terrible at maths). In short- no matter what language the Quran were revealed in, we would still have to learn that language to understand it.

2. Just because the Quran is in arabic, that in no way makes arabs superior to any other race, since when was it that only arabs speak arabic?? I would be counted as arab by many, and i dont understand arabic much at all, and yet i know many people who are not arab and speak the language very fluently mashaallah. You dont have to be an arab to learn or speak arabic. Its not a race- its a language.
Reply

AHMED_GUREY
09-05-2006, 07:20 AM
i don't know why you guys spend 9 pages explaining why Allah swt chose arabic as the language of Islam to a person who's allready been bombarded many times with the same kind of explainations on a somali forum

http://www.somalilife.com/postlite34193-.html

he's not here for answers only here to stirr up controversy with borderline blasphemy comments
Reply

syilla
09-05-2006, 08:16 AM
lol...he did that in the somali forum too?


lol... :D
Reply

Woodrow
09-05-2006, 08:17 AM
This thread can be summarised as follows:

The Qur'an is written in Arabic.

Some Muslims, if not most have no problem in learning sufficient Qur'anic Arabic to understand it.

Some people have difficulting in understanding, but have the wisdom to seek the advice of those who have a better understanding than they do.

Some people are not happy with the Qur'an being written in Arabic.

Some people have no problems.

This obviously has strayed from a debate and has become a series of cycler comments.

There is no purpose to be served by any further debate.


:threadclo
Reply

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