Pope comment 'linked to crusade'

Morocco recalls Vatican envoy over Pope remarks

RABAT (Reuters) - Morocco's King Mohammed has recalled his ambassador to the Vatican for talks as a result of the Pope's comments about Islam, the official MAP news agency reported on Saturday.

"Ali Achour is recalled for consultations as from Sunday following offensive remarks by Pope Benedict about Islam and Muslims," MAP quoted a foreign ministry statement as saying. It added the instructions had come from the king.

The Pope's suggestion in a lecture on Tuesday in his native Germany that early Muslims had used violence to spread their faith has sparked fury across the Islamic world along with demands for a public apology from the Pope.

In the speech, the Pope referred to criticism of the Prophet Mohammad by 14th-century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who said everything the Prophet brought was evil "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".

The Vatican secretary of state said in a statement on Saturday the Pope was sorry Muslims were offended by the speech.


Source: http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=newsOne&storyid=2006-09-16T161023Z_01_L16679258_RTRUKOT_0_TEXT0.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsArt-L1-RelatedNews-1

Re: Morocco recalls Vatican envoy over Pope remarks



Ohhh..

Now he has an opinion? Let's just pay a little less attention to those who speak with no knowledge (They are only hurting themselves) and start 'talking' to those who cause pain, death and destruction amongst our brothers and sisters fi deen.


I wonder what Hassan II would have done?

Subhan'Allah Al3adiem.

Re: Morocco recalls Vatican envoy over Pope remarks

The Pope apologyzed:
The Holy Father thus sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful, and should have been interpreted in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions.

In reiterating his respect and esteem for those who profess Islam, he hopes they will be helped to understand the correct meaning of his words so that, quickly surmounting this present uneasy moment, witness to the "Creator of heaven and earth, Who has spoken to men" may be reinforced, and collaboration may intensify "to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom" (Nostra Aetate no. 3).



Source

Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has said recent remarks by the Pope on Islam were in line with what he called a "crusade" against Muslims.

The background to the controversy, he said, was the "wish of powers whose survival depends on creating crises".

The row began last week, when Pope Benedict XVI repeated criticism of the Prophet Muhammad by a medieval scholar.

The speech sparked worldwide protests by Muslims. The Pope has apologised and said the views quoted were not his own.

Ayatollah Khamenei said the remarks by Pope Benedict XVI last Tuesday were the "latest link" in "the chain of a conspiracy to set in train a crusade".

Other links, he added, included the cartoon satirising Muhammad and "the insulting remarks of some American and European politicians and newspapers about Islam".

Iran's supreme leader also said: "We do not expect anything from [US President George W] Bush, because he works for global, plundering companies and powers.

"But these remarks are very much a cause for regret and surprise from a senior Christian official."

Ayatollah Khamenei is the latest Muslim leader to condemn Pope Benedict's comments.

Influential Qatari Muslim scholar, Yusuf al-Qaradawi, called for a day of anger on Friday.

He also dismissed the Pope's expression of regret on Sunday, saying that the pontiff should retract his speech.

Sami Abu Zuhri, a spokesman for Hamas, which controls the Palestinian parliament, said: "We do not view the statement attributed to the Pope as an apology."

Strike

Activists held more protests against the Pope in various Muslim areas on Monday.

In Indian-administered Kashmir many schools and shops remained closed.

Demonstrators took to the streets in Iraq and Indonesia. In Syria, a rally was held at a mosque in Damascus.

The Pope on Sunday expressed regret for causing offence in last week's speech - delivered during a visit to his native Germany.

He said the medieval text he quoted, which said the Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only evil, did not in any way express his personal opinion.

"I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims," he told pilgrims.

"These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought.

"I hope this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue, with mutual respect."

Turkish visit

Although some Muslims have rejected the apology, others have welcomed it.

The Council of Muslims in Germany said the Pope had taken an important step towards calming the unrest of the past few days.

The Muslim Council of Britain said the Pope's expression of regret was "exactly the reassurance many Muslims were looking for".

In Turkey, the most senior Muslim religious figure, Ali Bardakoglu, said the Pope's stated respect for Islam was a civilised position.

The government said the Pope was still expected to go ahead with a visit to Turkey in November.

Taken from BBC

Salaaam

The Pope did apologise which means he knew he made a mistake maybe the Muslims should use that to thier advantage and use the Media as a tool to show how merciful God is and how merciful us Muslims are.

Instead shouting hate and threats at a man who has accepted his mistake is not a trait of a Muslim.

Lets not forget the people that the Prophet Muhammed pbhu forgave, like the slave that killed his uncle and those that opposed him. Maybe Muslims should think the best way to defend our beloved Prophets pbhu name is to follows his ways and make people see why we love him soo much!

Can we stop this...?

HE HAD APOLOGIZED!!!

Yes we should stop the violent protests and actions that hurt the cause of Islam.etc.

However i think the Pope knew what he was doing and i dont think he is sorry. His statements has already sunk into the minds of his followers and the damage is aleady done, wheather they realise it or not. Anything that happens inthe world with regards to muslims will always bring to memeory the popes speech. Thus he has created a bias in ppls mind b4 anything happens. I think this is a good tatic to turn potential reverts away from islam.

BTW Did he ever come out and say that his speech was factually wrong?

Does the pope makes speeches of the top of his head or are the speeches prepared? Do ppl lookover/ research his speeches? if yes to these 2 questions then it must have occured to them that the speech would have offended the muslims world. So to me it was a deliberate action and they knew what would happen after.

Hello

I am new to this forum, I am an American Catholic and I joined this forum because I do not think that I understand enough about Islam and Muslims to make a conscious, logical decision about whether or not I like them. Many people in America are becoming more and more prejudice towards Muslims and Islam, and I regret to say that I feel I may be becoming one of them.

Anyways now that I have introduced myself and my purpose here I want to comment on this Pope insulting Islam thing. I do not understand what was so insulting about the Popes comments, he simply reiterated what an old ruler stated. He did not say he agreed with it, he simply quoted him. And to tell the truth it seems somewhat true. There are no other religions in the world that say in anyway nor could they be interpreted to say that is is OK to murder, or kill other people for your belief. Really what is a belief anyways? A thought that there is a higher being, well whether that higher being be Allah, God, Buddah or whoever what does it matter? As long as you know what is right and live by it then why the big fuss? And why get so offended when anyone says anything about it, what if every Christian in the world got angry about the Muslim remarks about the Pope, or burning figures of him? Could you imagine the Muslim outrage if we did that to a figure of the Prophet of Islam or even a modern day leader of Islam. There would be riots and violence everywhere. If every religion did this our world would be in even worse chaos than it already is and in fact, I think the whole human race would become extinct relatively quickly. My point is stop getting so angry about everything and rioting and throwing fire bombs and killing innocent women (or nuns) because you think it is for your religion. Prove to the world that you are an educated people and can solve problems or issues without this violence and drama.

Please respond to this Post, I sincerely hope I did not offend anyone as this is not my intention. I simply want to understand your religion and peoples mindset better.

I was wondering how long it would take for the cries of "crusade" to start. Let's get this straight right out of the box. Hopefully most people know what exactly the Crusades were, which was the largest military gathering since the fall of the Roman Empire. The Pope no longer has that power, now the Pope's position is about bringing peace and understanding to the world. The Pope's message, that has been lost in all this fuss, is that violence has no place in religion. Catholicism made this mistake during the Crusades. The Pope was attempting to express his wish that Muslims not allow this to happen to Islam. Pope Benedict is a scholar, and he was speaking from an academic and philosophical approach. The merging of God's will and human reason. Complicated, but an important concept to grasp, or people will justify any action as God's will.

To me a valid apology would include a retraction of the statement. He's not at all sorry that he said it. He is sorry for the reaction it caused. Big difference.

doodlebug said:

To me a valid apology would include a retraction of the statement. He's not at all sorry that he said it. He is sorry for the reaction it caused. Big difference.

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You're right, he isn't "sorry" he said it, because nothing he said should be something he should have to apologize for. Religion and violence should not be mixed. What he apologized for is the misunderstanding associated with his remarks. Pope Benedict did not intend that Muslims see his remarks as an attack upon their religion. As I stated before, it was a speech about faith and human reason, and that violence cannot be justified by faith. Of course, nobody cares about the point or substance of his speech, at least not those who seem to enjoy inciting violence in Muslim lands.

Huh. This is confusing. The whole point of the Pope's lecture was that religion and violence do not mix. How can that possibly we interpreted as part of a 'crusade'? :heated:

Greetings MTAFFI,

Welcome to the forum! It is great to see that you wish to find out more about Islam before judging it by the actions of certain people.

Regarding the matter with the pope, it has been discussed in a separate thread that has been closed now, since an apology has been given and we do not want unneccesary ill-feelings to escalate on the forum or anywhere else for that matter. In the thread, some people tried to explain what they felt was offensive, which I attempted to summarise in my post here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/491562-post149.html

MTAFFI said:

There are no other religions in the world that say in anyway nor could they be interpreted to say that is is OK to murder, or kill other people for your belief.

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This is untrue. Islam most certainly does not teach us to murder or kill anyone unjustly. It allows us to fight in specific circumstances such as in self-defence, but killing an innocent person is forbidden.

{Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.} Qur'an, 5:32

{Allâh does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allâh loves those who deal with equity.} Qur'an, 60:8

Furthermore, you will find that Islam is not exclusive in the sense that people can misinterpret it to support violent pursuits. Anyone can pluck a verse from a holy book and interpret it without knowledge, but when we understand the correct meaning and intent behind it, we receive a different picture in light of truth.

Really what is a belief anyways? A thought that there is a higher being, well whether that higher being be Allah, God, Buddah or whoever what does it matter? As long as you know what is right and live by it then why the big fuss? And why get so offended when anyone says anything about it,

Click to expand...

You are right: everyone has a right to believe whatever they wish. The Qur'an teaches us not to compel anyone to believe in our religion and leave those who mock it. It is not right for anyone to degrade another religion, yet the problem is that many people act out of emotion as opposed to Islamic etiquette, and this is why we see riots and violence when it is wrong.

In the same thread mentioned above, I also tried to shed some light on why the reaction occurred as we saw:

http://www.islamicboard.com/491921-post156.html

So while we can agree that the reaction of some Muslims was unacceptable, it is also important to understand that people need to act responsibly and not make inflammatory remarks in the first place (I mean this as a general statement, not in specific reference to the pope). You asked earlier what is belief and answered it was a thought that there is a higher being. Undoubtedly your being a Catholic enables you to understand that this belief in a higher being creates an attachment in one's heart; a kind of reverence. Inevitably, when such entities are mocked or abused, it is quite disturbing to a believer; hence our beliefs are not simply restricted to our inner selves, but are manifested in our actions and our lives. It is this deep involvement in faith, at least in the case of Islam, that moves people so much, but unfortunately can often be dissipated in avenues of ignorance.

Peace

KAding said:

Huh. This is confusing. The whole point of the Pope's lecture was that religion and violence do not mix. How can that possibly we interpreted as part of a 'crusade'? :heated:

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Because Everything is linked to the Crusades. :hiding:

hello Mtafi and welcome. The fact that more and more ppl are becoming prejudice towards muslims shows that the Pope shouldnt have said what he said. By doing this he placed and re-affirmed 14th century thinking about islam and muslims. I know u said he didnt agreed with it, but he didint say he disagreed with it also. If he didnt feel the same as the Byzantine emperor, then y quote him and leave it at that with out giving his views? As i said b4 this was deliberatly done by the pope to program negative thoughts about islam into unsuspecting ppl.

I agree with u that muslims whould stop fire bombing and senseless killing beacuse of this. This only helps to sway ppl's thinking about islam and Muslims, and doesnt give ppl a chance to see the baeuty of islam.

Remember, there is a war on "terror" going on, and the propagators of the war must define an enemy, and must find ways to justify their war in the minds of ppl.

You said that no other religion said that murder is ok? Well islam does not condone murder. Islam has strict punishment agasint the murderer. Murderers comes from all different misguided pl of different religions. If u are refering to war, then the bible also speaks of war. Please see these christian links...

http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html

http://www.studythebible.com/question/topics/war.htm

Remember most of the jokes made about Jesus and the pope comes from christians themselves. Afer all..who makes the movies or the comics? Majority of ppl who go to these movies or look at these programs (eg South park) are Christians. If u talk bad about Jesus, I guarantee a muslim would get angry. If u look at the release of the Da Vinci Code movie, u would see muslims protesting alongside Christians. So if Christians were to get angry about comments made abvout the Pope and Jesus, then they wuld have to riot agasint themselves.

I applaud ure quest to seek more info about muslims and Islam. The way to peace can only be achieved through understanding. There are other christians on this site and i think we have good understandings/ realtionships with them.

Thank you both very much for your responses and views on my questions. To be honest I really wasnt sure what to expect when I posted it. I will be sure to post more things if I have questions or comments, and if any of you have any questions for me please feel free. I attended mass and Sunday School for 15 years and have read through the bible several times and am fairly knowledgable of the Catholic faith. I hope to talk with all of you more soon

north_malaysian said:

Can we stop this...?

HE HAD APOLOGIZED!!!

Click to expand...

so?

he apologised for what he said or offence caused?

Greetings,

MTAFFI said:

I will be sure to post more things if I have questions or comments,

Click to expand...

Yes, please feel free to do so, and thank you for your understanding.

I think I will close this thread soon, since there doesn't seem much left to discuss about the topic.

Peace.

I also think we should get over this, he has apologized.

I agree, all that needs to be said has been said. Little can be added that would still be on topic.

:threadclo