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mansaf
01-31-2007, 12:27 PM
Wife Beating In Islam


One of the most misunderstood concepts in Islam is the man's right to beat his wife. This is a misunderstanding however as I just said. You only need to be a reasonable human to see the reasonable approach to solving a dispute between husband and wife.

Suppose the wife has disobeyed the husband. The husband thinks that the wife is doing wrong and unjust to him. The husband is devout and loving to his wife.

"... Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct ..." (Quran 4:34)

What would the husband try to do first to correct the problem?

If you are a devout loving husband, you would definitely try to reason with her and show her that she has been mistaken, that her actions are not acceptable, and that she must stop.

"... admonish them (first) ..." (Quran 4:34)

However she is not convinced and she keeps disobeying her husband by the free will she practices as a Muslim woman.

What would the husband do next?

The husband would show discomfort and discontent. He would avoid talking to her. He would not sleep with her in the same bed. He would not ... etc.

"... refuse to share their beds ..." (Quran 4:34)

She keeps disobeying her husband by the free will she practices as a Muslim woman.

What would the husband do next?

He would gather family or friends to intervene hoping now for reconciliation instead of persuasion. Family and friends would try to find a common ground between the husband and wife. They would judge who is right and who is wrong. They would reason with both and persuade the mistaken to stop.

"... If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation ..." (Quran 4:35)

Suppose now that the wife is found to be mistaken. However the wife continues disobedience by the free will she practices as a Muslim woman. What kind of devout loving wife would still prefer tension and displeasure between her and her husband after family and friends have judged between them!

What would the husband do next?

I cannot think of any more intellectual approach to reach reconciliation. First the husband starts by trying to stop the wife from disobeying. Then he is willing to re-conciliate. Then what next? Do not say to go their separate ways and divorce! What kind of devout loving husband and wife would divorce over minor troubles in their marriage!

What would the husband do then?

If he is a devout loving husband, he would beat her gently to stir emotions within her. He would beat her like he would beat his children for discipline. Yes, because after all this the wife would be acting like a child who is unconvinced by reasoning. He would not beat his wife to hurt her physically but emotionally. He would not hit on the face, he would not cause bruises, and he would not break bones. He would beat her exactly like he would beat his child. She would definitely stop her disobedience after this, exactly how a child would learn what is wrong and what is right after being disciplined by the parents.

"... (and last) beat them (lightly) ..." (Quran 4:34)

It would be amazing if the woman persists her disobedience after all this. God forbids I marry a woman that would not agree to stop disobedience at reconciliation through family and friends. I fear Allah the Most High, the Great above all men. I do not wish to be unjust to my wife.

"... but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, Great (above you all)" (Quran 4:34)

Again she continues disobeying by the free will she practices as a Muslim woman. No, the husband is forbidden to beat harder and harder breaking her bones and handicapping her, hoping she stops disobedience. This is totally forbidden. What kind of a devout loving husband would do this to his wife. What kind of a human would do this to another human.

What would the husband do next?

The ultimate and final resort would be divorce. Yes, divorce! Can you think of any other approach after all this? I think not. But do not be alarmed. Islam requires three divorces to finalize separation. The husband is loving and devout and would divorce the first time. Then reconciliation would be used again fearing that their marriage would end in eternal separation. If the wife continues disobedience, then the husband divorces the second time forcing the wife to leave the house and go stay with her relatives. Then reconciliation would be used more and more at the second alarm. Finally, if the wife persists disobedience, then the husband divorces the third and marriage with all its problems that have accumulated as a result of this disobedience would end in peace between the husband and wife.

"Divorced women ... And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise." (Quran 2:228)

"A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness ..." (Quran 2:229)


Tell me who is being unjust and abusing here? The family and friends have judged between them and found the wife to be mistaken. The wife would not stop disobedience. If the husband was judged to be unjust to his wife, then her family would force the man to stop his abuse or demand divorce for her. But I was talking about the case where the wife is mistaken and that is where gentle beating would be used if necessary.

A woman might ask why she does not have the right to practice the mentioned therapy on her husband. You can reason with your husband, you can show discontent and try to avoid him, and you can call on family and friends to reconcile between you and your husband. This is your right as an equal Muslim woman. But do you wish to gently beat your husband? Well, go ahead and beat your husband. Don't you realize the turmoil and regret a loving husband would feel after treating his wife this way? Don't you see why God has issued gentle beating as a last resort before divorce? Aren't you more loving to your husband than he is to you? Isn't this your nature as a woman? Do you really want to go through these feelings of regret and sorrow? Or are you a rough amazonian woman? What kind of a man would want to marry an amazonian woman? What kind of a man would want to feel that his manhood is being stripped away from him?

No my dear sister. You shall not act in such way because you are a gentle devout loving wife. Your husband, your parents, and your brother are their for you. It is their duty to protect you and fight for your justice. Your parents or your brothers will persuade your husband or seek divorce for you in case the husband was mistaken. You do not need to lose your gentle nature by beating your husband. Most of all, you shall not put your gentle heart into agony.
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mansaf
02-01-2007, 02:23 AM
I was hoping someone would criticize the article, especillay nonbelievers. By criticize I generally mean find away around gentle beating before reaching divorce.
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chris4336
02-01-2007, 02:54 AM
Hi Mansaf,

I really disliked this ruling before I converted. It generally did not find the idea of "hitting lightly" to be an ideal way of solving marital conflicts.

However, as it was explained to me, Muslim men are only permitted to "tap lightly" if they think it will help save the marriage. So for example if you are married to me, you should know that if I am doing something wrong, lightly hitting me will NOT solve anything, therefore, your would simply skip this step and initate a divorce.

Also, I think it should be emphasized that ALL Muslim men must look to the Prophet as an example of how to live, and the Prophet NEVER laid a hand on any of his wives.

Finally I really don't agree with the authors last two paragraphs where he talks about women turning into "amazonian women" or putting your "gentle heart into agony." I think its the right and duty of Muslim women to stand up for their own rights, enlisting the power of others when necessary. Women aren't allowed to hit men because men are (generally) stronger and could hit back harder, putting the woman in danger. In my opinion, all the stuff he writes about being a loving devout wife stuff is a load of garbage if your husband is mistreating you.

Just my opinion. I have done a lot of soul searching on this topic so if you want to discuss it further I would glad to.
Reply

mansaf
02-01-2007, 03:18 AM
Thank you very much for your opinion. You do make very good points.

So you agree that gentle beating is needed as a latest resort to save marriage.

The article already mentions that the woman has the right to stand up agains husband by first reasoning, then admonishing, then reconciliation through family. An amazonian woman is in the case where a woman would beat her husband undermining his manhood and authority in the marriage. However, you are right about the man striking back.

I think you can still be a devout loving wife if your husband is mistreating you out of ignorance or misguidance. You would seek to correct him because you care about him. However, the article is talking about the husband's mistakes of not just mistreating wife but also committing sins like drinking, gambling, stealing, or not praying.

Yes, regretting the action of beating wife is a load of garbage.


salam


Originally Posted by chris4336
Hi Mansaf,

I really disliked this ruling before I converted. It generally did not find the idea of "hitting lightly" to be an ideal way of solving marital conflicts.

However, as it was explained to me, Muslim men are only permitted to "tap lightly" if they think it will help save the marriage. So for example if you are married to me, you should know that if I am doing something wrong, lightly hitting me will NOT solve anything, therefore, your would simply skip this step and initate a divorce.

Also, I think it should be emphasized that ALL Muslim men must look to the Prophet as an example of how to live, and the Prophet NEVER laid a hand on any of his wives.

Finally I really don't agree with the authors last two paragraphs where he talks about women turning into "amazonian women" or putting your "gentle heart into agony." I think its the right and duty of Muslim women to stand up for their own rights, enlisting the power of others when necessary. Women aren't allowed to hit men because men are (generally) stronger and could hit back harder, putting the woman in danger. In my opinion, all the stuff he writes about being a loving devout wife stuff is a load of garbage if your husband is mistreating you.

Just my opinion. I have done a lot of soul searching on this topic so if you want to discuss it further I would glad to.
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tomtomsmom
02-01-2007, 03:25 AM
Hitting me is not the way to get your point across. Of course that is how I was raised so I guess for me it is different. I have been in an abusive relationship before and never again will I tolerate any man to hit me. Even if it is "lightly".
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chris4336
02-02-2007, 09:26 PM
TomstomMom - I feel the exact same way. My mother always taught me if someone ever lays his hand on you GET OUT as fast as you can (and she always told me to always make sure I have my own money so that I could leave if need be.) I am very sorry you were in an abusive relationship, that must have been awful.

Mansaf - I don't think a light hit is "needed" to save a marriage. I think that it is permissible because its "possible" that it might save a marriage. No one knows why Allah made this permissible for men, right? Maybe he made it permissible because there was 1 marriage where lightly tapping the woman would have saved that marriage - do you know what I mean? Maybe he put the permission in the Quran so that the Prophet could show his companions the limits of physical force they may use (not leave a mark, not on the face)? I mean if it was never discussed, people could start making rules like "Well if it doesn't break a bone it's allowed." So we can speculate all we want but (as someone on this board has told me many times) eventually we have to put our faith in a high power who knows us much better than we know ourselves.
Reply

Muslim Pride
02-03-2007, 01:20 AM
Is there a source for this?

Originally Posted by mansaf
Wife Beating In Islam


One of the most misunderstood concepts in Islam is the man's right to beat his wife. This is a misunderstanding however as I just said. You only need to be a reasonable human to see the reasonable approach to solving a dispute between husband and wife.

Suppose the wife has disobeyed the husband. The husband thinks that the wife is doing wrong and unjust to him. The husband is devout and loving to his wife.

"... Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct ..." (Quran 4:34)

What would the husband try to do first to correct the problem?

If you are a devout loving husband, you would definitely try to reason with her and show her that she has been mistaken, that her actions are not acceptable, and that she must stop.

"... admonish them (first) ..." (Quran 4:34)

However she is not convinced and she keeps disobeying her husband by the free will she practices as a Muslim woman.

What would the husband do next?

The husband would show discomfort and discontent. He would avoid talking to her. He would not sleep with her in the same bed. He would not ... etc.

"... refuse to share their beds ..." (Quran 4:34)

She keeps disobeying her husband by the free will she practices as a Muslim woman.

What would the husband do next?

He would gather family or friends to intervene hoping now for reconciliation instead of persuasion. Family and friends would try to find a common ground between the husband and wife. They would judge who is right and who is wrong. They would reason with both and persuade the mistaken to stop.

"... If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation ..." (Quran 4:35)

Suppose now that the wife is found to be mistaken. However the wife continues disobedience by the free will she practices as a Muslim woman. What kind of devout loving wife would still prefer tension and displeasure between her and her husband after family and friends have judged between them!

What would the husband do next?

I cannot think of any more intellectual approach to reach reconciliation. First the husband starts by trying to stop the wife from disobeying. Then he is willing to re-conciliate. Then what next? Do not say to go their separate ways and divorce! What kind of devout loving husband and wife would divorce over minor troubles in their marriage!

What would the husband do then?

If he is a devout loving husband, he would beat her gently to stir emotions within her. He would beat her like he would beat his children for discipline. Yes, because after all this the wife would be acting like a child who is unconvinced by reasoning. He would not beat his wife to hurt her physically but emotionally. He would not hit on the face, he would not cause bruises, and he would not break bones. He would beat her exactly like he would beat his child. She would definitely stop her disobedience after this, exactly how a child would learn what is wrong and what is right after being disciplined by the parents.

"... (and last) beat them (lightly) ..." (Quran 4:34)

It would be amazing if the woman persists her disobedience after all this. God forbids I marry a woman that would not agree to stop disobedience at reconciliation through family and friends. I fear Allah the Most High, the Great above all men. I do not wish to be unjust to my wife.

"... but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, Great (above you all)" (Quran 4:34)

Again she continues disobeying by the free will she practices as a Muslim woman. No, the husband is forbidden to beat harder and harder breaking her bones and handicapping her, hoping she stops disobedience. This is totally forbidden. What kind of a devout loving husband would do this to his wife. What kind of a human would do this to another human.

What would the husband do next?

The ultimate and final resort would be divorce. Yes, divorce! Can you think of any other approach after all this? I think not. But do not be alarmed. Islam requires three divorces to finalize separation. The husband is loving and devout and would divorce the first time. Then reconciliation would be used again fearing that their marriage would end in eternal separation. If the wife continues disobedience, then the husband divorces the second time forcing the wife to leave the house and go stay with her relatives. Then reconciliation would be used more and more at the second alarm. Finally, if the wife persists disobedience, then the husband divorces the third and marriage with all its problems that have accumulated as a result of this disobedience would end in peace between the husband and wife.

"Divorced women ... And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise." (Quran 2:228)

"A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness ..." (Quran 2:229)


Tell me who is being unjust and abusing here? The family and friends have judged between them and found the wife to be mistaken. The wife would not stop disobedience. If the husband was judged to be unjust to his wife, then her family would force the man to stop his abuse or demand divorce for her. But I was talking about the case where the wife is mistaken and that is where gentle beating would be used if necessary.

A woman might ask why she does not have the right to practice the mentioned therapy on her husband. You can reason with your husband, you can show discontent and try to avoid him, and you can call on family and friends to reconcile between you and your husband. This is your right as an equal Muslim woman. But do you wish to gently beat your husband? Well, go ahead and beat your husband. Don't you realize the turmoil and regret a loving husband would feel after treating his wife this way? Don't you see why God has issued gentle beating as a last resort before divorce? Aren't you more loving to your husband than he is to you? Isn't this your nature as a woman? Do you really want to go through these feelings of regret and sorrow? Or are you a rough amazonian woman? What kind of a man would want to marry an amazonian woman? What kind of a man would want to feel that his manhood is being stripped away from him?

No my dear sister. You shall not act in such way because you are a gentle devout loving wife. Your husband, your parents, and your brother are their for you. It is their duty to protect you and fight for your justice. Your parents or your brothers will persuade your husband or seek divorce for you in case the husband was mistaken. You do not need to lose your gentle nature by beating your husband. Most of all, you shall not put your gentle heart into agony.
Reply

zanjabeela
02-03-2007, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Hitting me is not the way to get your point across. Of course that is how I was raised so I guess for me it is different. I have been in an abusive relationship before and never again will I tolerate any man to hit me. Even if it is "lightly".
Amen to that! That is what my mom's parents told her before marriage (and my dad is the kind of person who literally could not hurt a fly) and this is what my parents tell my sis and I: If the man you marry ever lifts his hand at you in anger, come home immediately! They are quite confident that they did not raise us in a way where a light beating would ever be necessary or justified. lol God knows if their confidence is misplaced.

I just felt compelled to interject that as a Muslim woman who comes from a fairly religious background. :)

Peace!
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Malaikah
02-03-2007, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by zanjabeela
They are quite confident that they did not raise us in a way where a light beating would ever be necessary or justified. lol God knows if their confidence is misplaced.
:sl:

How can it not be justified when Allah swt himself justified in the Quran?

When it comes to issues like this, people tend to put their emotions first (I'm not referring to anyone here in specific). Allah isn't talking about male dominance or abuse... If anything this law is a protection for women because of the steps in place and the fact that it doesn't allow the husband to hurt his wife. Not to mention the punishment that is awaiting her in the hereafter if she doesn't repent for her wrong doing...:offended: That is was worse than a light disciplinary hit from her husband...

And lets no forget that it is the wife who is wrong in this case. When she is doing something really wrong, it is the husbands duty to discipline her... that is good news for her because they don't need to get others involved.

But what happens when the husband is wrong? You have to get others involved and embarrass him in front of them by getting them involved in the case.:rolleyes:
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tomtomsmom
02-03-2007, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

How can it not be justified when Allah swt himself justified in the Quran?

When it comes to issues like this, people tend to put their emotions first (I'm not referring to anyone here in specific). Allah isn't talking about male dominance or abuse... If anything this law is a protection for women because of the steps in place and the fact that it doesn't allow the husband to hurt his wife. Not to mention the punishment that is awaiting her in the hereafter if she doesn't repent for her wrong doing...:offended: That is was worse than a light disciplinary hit from her husband...

And lets no forget that it is the wife who is wrong in this case. When she is doing something really wrong, it is the husbands duty to discipline her... that is good news for her because they don't need to get others involved.

But what happens when the husband is wrong? You have to get others involved and embarrass him in front of them by getting them involved in the case.:rolleyes:
Although you aren't talking about anyone in particular I feel as if I should say something. Yes I do put my emotions first. I am an emotional type of person. Saying that, I can also see how it is a protection for us women. It says "lightly" which for me translates that it should be hard enough to get her attention but soft enough to not hurt her.
Though I know you didn't mean it, I take offense to the thought that my husband it there to "discipline" me. He is not my father nor my creator. We are equals in our marriage. There never has been or ever will be any sort of discipline between the two of us. If I am doing something he doesn't approve of then he can speak to me about it as an adult. Do not treat me as if I am a child that needs to be scorned. As far as when the husband is in the wrong I see no need to get others involved. That is a personal matter between the two of you. A woman should be able to talk to her husband openly about what she is feeling and what is making her unhappy.
My husband knew before we were married that I am headstrong and stubborn and that I speak my mind freely if there is something I want to say. He says that is part of the reason he married me. He loves the fact that I am not meak or easily intimidated. It gives him a challenge!:D
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Umar001
02-03-2007, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Although you aren't talking about anyone in particular I feel as if I should say something. Yes I do put my emotions first. I am an emotional type of person. Saying that, I can also see how it is a protection for us women. It says "lightly" which for me translates that it should be hard enough to get her attention but soft enough to not hurt her.
Though I know you didn't mean it, I take offense to the thought that my husband it there to "discipline" me. He is not my father nor my creator. We are equals in our marriage. There never has been or ever will be any sort of discipline between the two of us. If I am doing something he doesn't approve of then he can speak to me about it as an adult. Do not treat me as if I am a child that needs to be scorned. As far as when the husband is in the wrong I see no need to get others involved. That is a personal matter between the two of you. A woman should be able to talk to her husband openly about what she is feeling and what is making her unhappy.
My husband knew before we were married that I am headstrong and stubborn and that I speak my mind freely if there is something I want to say. He says that is part of the reason he married me. He loves the fact that I am not meak or easily intimidated. It gives him a challenge!:D

So you don't think there is a head of the house, but there are heads of the house?
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tomtomsmom
02-03-2007, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

So you don't think there is a head of the house, but there are heads of the house?
In some households a "head of the house" works. For me it does not. I have my srenghts and weaknesses as does my husband. What I am strong at I handle, and what he is strong at he handles. It is a joint effort between the two of us to run the household. That is what works best for our family. I am by no means saying that if it doesn't work for someone else they should do it anyway. Each family unit has to find out what works best for them.
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chris4336
02-03-2007, 05:13 PM
Hey Tomtomsmom,

I understand your point exactly. I don't think its about discipline. The Quran instructs for first discuss the issue with his wife, then to separate himself from her. So its absolutely the same idea you had. But if that is not working and your wife still is acting really bad, and the only choice you really have left is divorce, you can hit her lightly. Maybe the hit will bring her to her senses - but maybe not and if not then he should get a divorce or go to some kind of 3rd party arbitrator or something.

But I think talking and communication between spouses is always encouraged in Islam - this is kind of a "last resort" step. And remember - the Prophet never even used it.

I think its also important to remember that no one really knows the true reason behind this permission. I might think its to protect women from harsher physical abuse, but others might think its about controlling a wife. No one really knows though.
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Umar001
02-03-2007, 05:17 PM
Interesting.
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tomtomsmom
02-03-2007, 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by chris4336
Hey Tomtomsmom,

I understand your point exactly. I don't think its about discipline. The Quran instructs for first discuss the issue with his wife, then to separate himself from her. So its absolutely the same idea you had. But if that is not working and your wife still is acting really bad, and the only choice you really have left is divorce, you can hit her lightly. Maybe the hit will bring her to her senses - but maybe not and if not then he should get a divorce or go to some kind of 3rd party arbitrator or something.

But I think talking and communication between spouses is always encouraged in Islam - this is kind of a "last resort" step. And remember - the Prophet never even used it.

I think its also important to remember that no one really knows the true reason behind this permission. I might think its to protect women from harsher physical abuse, but others might think its about controlling a wife. No one really knows though.
See my husband knows that hitting me will be of no help. It would only anger me more and I am very likely to fly off the handle and hit him back as I did in the previous abusive releationship I mentioned. When the police came they threatened to arrest me because he was hurt more than I was.
My husband was taught by his mother that even though it is allowed in the Quran to hit his wife if they were having problems that for most women it wasn't the way to get through to them.
But I guess for us this is a mute point because I take my marriage very seriously. In every action I take my husband is always in the back of my mind. I live everyday to make our family stronger. I never want to make him unhappy and adjust my actions accordingly, as does he. Sure we fight, don't get me wrong. But we never speak to each other with anger in our hearts. If there is something we are angry about we simply don't speak to each other untill it is gone. Then once we have both calmed down we talk to each other and work things out in a peaceful way. In the long run it always strengthens our relationship becasue when we talk calmly about things we can see the other point of view.
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chris4336
02-03-2007, 05:34 PM
Yes, I agree, then your husband would surely not want to use this "light hit" in your relationship.

It sounds like you have a really strong relationship, and you both care for each other a lot.

Best of Luck to you!
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tomtomsmom
02-03-2007, 05:35 PM
thanks sis!
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zanjabeela
02-03-2007, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

How can it not be justified when Allah swt himself justified in the Quran?
:sl:
When I said...
They are quite confident that they did not raise us in a way where a light beating would ever be necessary or justified. lol God knows if their confidence is misplaced.
...I was not at all saying that Qur'anic injunction is unjustified. I am saying that I was raised in a way to (inshaAllah) know where my boundaries are in a marital relationship, that they raised me to give my husband the respect he deserves and not step over the line where a light beating would be necessary to bring me to my senses.

In other words, if a man would ever hit me, it would be highly unlikely to be justified, and would more likely fall in the category of abuse rather than the category of Qur'anically justified...because inshaAllah I do know where to stop.

InshaAllah, what I said earlier makes more sense now...
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BlissfullyJaded
02-03-2007, 10:06 PM
:sl:

The first step is to verbally chastise the wife in a gentle and wise manner, not to hit her. Therefore, I'm pretty sure that if zanjabeela were to be in the wrong, and he said so in a gentle manner, she'd take heed. So there would be no need for the hitting. If he resorted to hitting at that point, it would be un Islamic...
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YusufNoor
02-04-2007, 12:41 AM
A`udhu Billahi mina Shaytanir Rajeem,

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

Assalamu 'alaykum,

to add, albeit nervously, a different perspective: there are/were times and places, like waaay back in the 8th Century CE that it was permissable for a man to marry women as young as, well...REAL young, pre-teenage-ish. i tend to think that we are talking about a mild slap to the bottom MORE than anything and only as an "i'm real serious" type or "you better NOT do that again" manner.

IF i remember correctly, and MAYBE it's just old age, but i either read or heard that A'isha(ra) was the recipient on one,JUST one of these. i've scanned one of the books i just finished and didn't see it there, it might be in another or maybe it was in one of the lectures that i heard.

it kinda sorta makes a little sense that way...[as in hitting a woman makes very little, if not just plain no sense]

just my take though...

:w:
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Keltoi
02-04-2007, 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by YusufNoor
A`udhu Billahi mina Shaytanir Rajeem,

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

Assalamu 'alaykum,

to add, albeit nervously, a different perspective: there are/were times and places, like waaay back in the 8th Century CE that it was permissable for a man to marry women as young as, well...REAL young, pre-teenage-ish. i tend to think that we are talking about a mild slap to the bottom MORE than anything and only as an "i'm real serious" type or "you better NOT do that again" manner.

IF i remember correctly, and MAYBE it's just old age, but i either read or heard that A'isha(ra) was the recipient on one,JUST one of these. i've scanned one of the books i just finished and didn't see it there, it might be in another or maybe it was in one of the lectures that i heard.

it kinda sorta makes a little sense that way...[as in hitting a woman makes very little, if not just plain no sense]

just my take though...

:w:
That is an interesting perspective. Sometimes we forget in our modern age that girls(and boys) married at young ages in the not so distant past. If a 40 year old man marred a 12, 13, or 14 year old, which happened quite alot, it might make more sense for this rule of a "light" slap or whatever to be considered. For all intents and purposes they were children, and that might make sense to not "discipline" them harshly. It was a different time with different cultural realities.
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chris4336
02-04-2007, 01:03 AM
I don't know...I thought marriage in Islam is a very serious matter, and one that is supposed to be undertaken only by those who are mature enough to handle the responsibilties of marriage. If a "woman" must still be treated as a child, surely she is not ready to enter into a marriage. I cannot imagine any Wali allowing otherwise.

Moreover, once you are married she is not your child, she is your wife and your partner, and you should treat her as such.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that this is my opinion, but as I said before all of us are probably going to have different opinions on the reasons behind this permission
Reply

rehmans_mba
11-11-2007, 09:18 AM
As a matter of fact, women were granted all their rights through most of Prophet Mohammed’s (PBUH) sayings.
Even though Muslims consider the holy Qur’an as their primary tool that guides them through their life, a Muslim can never deny the benefits of the hadith; sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
For centuries, Muslims used the sayings and advices of Prophet
Mohammed (PBUH) to support and elaborate what the Qur’an says.
Unfortunately, Islam has been accused of encouraging the mistreatment of women. But the Qur’an and hadith prove that this perception is wrong and unfounded.
Islam realized the importance of women even before the establishment of women rights’ organizations that have been spreading lately. It offered women the right to work in society, rendering useful service, even during wars. The noble religion also highlights the importance and necessity of women in any society.
As a matter of fact, women were granted all their rights through most of Prophet Mohammed’s (PBUH) sayings just as it granted men their rights. In many occasions, the Prophet urged Muslim men to treat their wives with kindness and stressed that a husband’s treatment to his wife indicates his good character and therefore his faith.
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) specifically stated that a husband should smile to his wife, avoid hurting her physically or emotionally, protect her, treat her gently, and be patient with her.
Among the misperceptions some people have about Islam, is that the holy Qur’an encourages men to beat their wives, while in fact Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said in a hadith: "You have rights over your wives, and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not with severity. If they refrain from these things and obey you, they have right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are your wards having no control of their persons” according to Mohammad's Farewell Address, Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasulallah", Guillaume's translation.

Islam has also urged Muslim men to try to understand their wives and their needs instead of focusing on the negative traits, which exist in all of Allah’s (SWT) creatures because nobody is perfect. Saheeh Muslims said “Mohammed (PBUH) said “A believing man should not hate a believing woman. If he dislikes something in her character, he should be pleased with some other trait of hers.”

may allahs peace on all of us
Reply

Isambard
11-13-2007, 11:53 PM
Why isnt there a passage that a woman may beat a man (lightly)?
Reply

Muslim Woman
11-14-2007, 01:16 AM
salaam/peace;

Originally Posted by Isambard
Why isnt there a passage that a woman may beat a man (lightly)?

it's not practical .

It's not wise to hit ur opponent (!) if he is more powerful...he will hit u back & u will be in great trouble :(

if the relation is that bad , then Islam allows divorce ..so that they don't have to fight / disobey the Islamic manners.



a related link


Wife Beating ? Allah says, Live with them in kindness


Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity.

If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.”

(An-Nisa’: 19)


Prophet Muhammed (p) NEVER hit his any wife . Once when he was angry ; instead beating wives , he spent several nights outside home ( most probably at the mosque ). So, when a Muslim husband is angry , should not he follow this wonderful example ?




Dear Muslim husbands, Pl. remember that Holy Prophet Muhammed (p) said, "Do not beat the female servants of Allah"; "Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you."




http://theislampath.com/smf/index.php?topic=1833.0
Reply

جوري
11-14-2007, 01:27 AM
this was discussed here before no?

RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"


Question:
Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)

Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.

Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.

Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.

Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.

Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.




Transliteration
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.)
Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."

And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."

As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.

Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.

The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.

However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this makes it clear to her that he is most serious and this not a joke. Again, if she comes around then he is to let it go and not bother her about it. Finally, if she still insists on such lewdness and bad conduct, he is to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms that they are going to be heading for separation or even divorce unless she comes back to proper behavior. Again, if she complies, then he should not bring it up and return to the bed with her.
And of course, this is all in an effort to translate one short but powerful phrase from Arabic to English. The sources are quoted herein and there may be other interpretations but the only acceptable ones are those based on the teachings of the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
And as always, Allahu 'Alim (Allah is the Knower)

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.
34.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The understanding now is that some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

Now we can properly understand that Almighty God has commanded the men to provide for the women and allow them to keep all of their wealth, inheritance and income without demanding anything from them for support and maintenance. Additionally, if she should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she would cease this lewdness. If she should continue in this indecency, then he should no longer share the bed with her, and this would continue for a period of time. Finally, if she would repent then he would take up sharing the bed with her again.

And Allah is All Knowing of the meanings.



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courtesy of Br. Noname http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...tml#post711125


have we gone into thread bankruptcy, that we are constantly recycling?


:w:
Reply

جوري
11-14-2007, 01:33 AM
and another by BR. Qatada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serdar
Anyone explain this:

Sahih Muslim

Book 004, Number 2127:
”…He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?...”


Answer to the mistranslation:


The term used in the hadith is:


Imam Nawawi in his Sharh states that:


The word "lahada" according to the lexicographers means, "to push" (dafa'a).

The usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as sheikh Gf haddad said):

- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore

Secondly, this calls to an important matter that is related to the Hand imposition of the Prophet - Allah bless him - because it is a gesture associated with driving away evil influence (waswâs) and conferring blessing as the following reports show:





1. Ubay ibn Ka`b said:


"There occurred in my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - saw how I was affected, he slapped me on the chest. I broke into a sweat and felt as if I were looking at Allâh in fear." (Sahih Muslim)


2. Jarir ibn Abdullah Al Bajalî was sent by the Prophet - Allah bless him - on a mission to destroy Dhu Al Kahalasa, the idol-house of Khatham, nicknamed the Yemenite Kaba. Jarr narrates:

"I went along with a hundred and fifty horsemen but I could not sit steadily on horse. I mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - who then struck his hand on my chest so hard that I could see the trace of his fingers on it, saying: 'O Allah! Grant him steadfastness and make him a guide of righteousness and a rightly-guided one!' (Bukhari and Muslim)



More proof that the correct translation is ‘He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore’

Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) said: "Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it Saheeh.]

Wife-beating can’t be considered "in the Cause of Allaah" - the reference in the Hadeeth is a reference to Jihaad on the battlefield. "When the prohibitions of Allaah were violated" is a reference to someone committing a crime, and their being tried and then punished by flogging. This is not a reference to the way a husband should treat his wife. So here we clearly see in a sahih (authentic) hadith that Aisha clearly told that the prophet ‘never hit a servent or a women’.


So this is also a clear proof that the usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as Gf haddad said):

- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore





Quote:
004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).


This has been explained in this thread already in depth. And Allaah knows best.

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...tml#post728593



Everything is a science, you go to a doctor when you aren't sure what is ailing you and it certainly works better than the your neighbor's home remedy.. let's like wise approach ahel il'eilm when it comes to fiqh and jurisprudence.. we can't all be experts in every field.. we can najtahid, and we can ask when we don't know

:w:
Reply

NoName55
11-14-2007, 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by rehmans_mba
As a matter of fact, women were granted all their rights through most of Prophet Mohammed’s (PBUH) sayings.
Even though Muslims consider the holy Qur’an as their primary tool that guides them through their life, a Muslim can never deny the benefits of the hadith; sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
For centuries, Muslims used the sayings and advices of Prophet
Mohammed (PBUH) to support and elaborate what the Qur’an says.
Unfortunately, Islam has been accused of encouraging the mistreatment of women. But the Qur’an and hadith prove that this perception is wrong and unfounded.
Islam realized the importance of women even before the establishment of women rights’ organizations that have been spreading lately. It offered women the right to work in society, rendering useful service, even during wars. The noble religion also highlights the importance and necessity of women in any society.
As a matter of fact, women were granted all their rights through most of Prophet Mohammed’s (PBUH) sayings just as it granted men their rights. In many occasions, the Prophet urged Muslim men to treat their wives with kindness and stressed that a husband’s treatment to his wife indicates his good character and therefore his faith.
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) specifically stated that a husband should smile to his wife, avoid hurting her physically or emotionally, protect her, treat her gently, and be patient with her.
Among the misperceptions some people have about Islam, is that the holy Qur’an encourages men to beat their wives, while in fact Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said in a hadith: "You have rights over your wives, and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not with severity. If they refrain from these things and obey you, they have right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are your wards having no control of their persons” according to Mohammad's Farewell Address, Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasulallah", Guillaume's translation.

Islam has also urged Muslim men to try to understand their wives and their needs instead of focusing on the negative traits, which exist in all of Allah’s (SWT) creatures because nobody is perfect. Saheeh Muslims said “Mohammed (PBUH) said “A believing man should not hate a believing woman. If he dislikes something in her character, he should be pleased with some other trait of hers.”

may allahs peace on all of us
why did you revive a long dead thread for? do you want to see proofs from both Quraan and Sunnah that neither one or the other should strike lightly or otherwise?

edit: oopsie its been done for the zillionth time! http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...tml#post858885

"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"
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