Earth is rotating according to the Qur'an!!!!

[Battle_4_Peace]

Allah says,

وَتَرَى الْجِبَالَ تَحْسَبُهَا جَامِدَةً وَهِيَ تَمُرُّ مَرَّ السَّحَابِ صُنْعَ اللَّهِ الَّذِي أَتْقَنَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ إِنَّهُ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَفْعَلُونَ

Koran 27:88. "When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of GOD, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do". (Rashad Khalifa Translation, 1935 - 1990).

Koran 27:88. "You think the mountains are solid. In fact, they move like clouds. It is God's technique which has established everything perfectly. He is well Aware of what you do". (Muhammad Sarwar Translation).

How can the mountains move like clouds in the sky, if the earth is standing still?! Subhan'Allah wallahu Akbar!! If Allah had said that the earth looks like a ball or that it's rotating, almost everyone would have thrown the Qur'an away in the past, but Allah said it in this manner, so that later generations would find out. Subhan'Allah! :thumbs_up

Some other translators did not know what was meant by this verse, so they connected it to the previews verses, which speak about the Day of Judgement, but the above given translations are the closest to the arabic text.

Wasalaam,

[Qurratul Ayn]

:salamext:

Very interesting and Subhan'Allah Ta'ala indeed!!! Jazak'Allah Khair for that Brother Battle_4_Peace.

:salamext:

[Battle_4_Peace]

:wasalamex

Wa iyaakum :)

[iqbal_soofi]

Allah says,

وَتَرَى الْجِبَالَ تَحْسَبُهَا جَامِدَةً وَهِيَ تَمُرُّ مَرَّ السَّحَابِ صُنْعَ اللَّهِ الَّذِي أَتْقَنَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ إِنَّهُ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَفْعَلُونَ

Koran 27:88. "When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of GOD, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do". (Rashad Khalifa Translation, 1935 - 1990).

Koran 27:88. "You think the mountains are solid. In fact, they move like clouds. It is God's technique which has established everything perfectly. He is well Aware of what you do". (Muhammad Sarwar Translation).

How can the mountains move like clouds in the sky, if the earth is standing still?! Subhan'Allah wallahu Akbar!! If Allah had said that the earth looks like a ball or that it's rotating, almost everyone would have thrown the Qur'an away in the past, but Allah said it in this manner, so that later generations would find out. Subhan'Allah! :thumbs_up

Some other translators did not know what was meant by this verse, so they connected it to the previews verses, which speak about the Day of Judgement, but the above given translations are the closest to the arabic text.

Wasalaam,

This surah clealy says that mountains move like clouds. It was said about the mountains of the sand in the Arabian deserts that move with the wind. After every wind storm the position of these sand mountains change because the sand from one mountain flies away and forms another mountain. This surah didin't point towards the rotatin of earth. Also this surah was never related to the earth's rotation by the messenger of Allah. He never said that earth rotates or anything like this in his life. There was no ceoncept of earth's rotation at that time. It's only recently after the theory that earth rotates on its axis has been establised, the religious scholars who know a little bit of science terminology try to impresses the believers that this theory is also mentioned in Quran. They could find this surah a little bit closer with which they could decieve the believers. In fact there's no science in Quran. That's why you see the religious scholars talk unscientifically when it comes to solve the real life problems. They skip the serious questions about life by saying that we shouldn't worry about this world because our life is temporary here. Their followers only reapeat their words, but they're the ones who worry most for their life in this world.

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[Battle_4_Peace]

This surah clealy says that mountains move like clouds. It was said about the mountains of the sand in the Arabian deserts that move with the wind. After every wind storm the position of these sand mountains change because the sand from one mountain flies away and forms another mountain. This surah didin't point towards the rotatin of earth.

What are you talking about? Where is your proof? Which mountains move after every wind storm in Arabia? +o( LOL

Also this surah was never related to the earth's rotation by the messenger of Allah. He never said that earth rotates or anything like this in his life. There was no ceoncept of earth's rotation at that time.

Abu Bakra narrated that the Prophet said: "It is incumbent on those who are present to convey this message of mine to those who are absent. May be that some of those to whom it will be conveyed will understand it better than those who have actually heard it." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 5, Book 59, Hadith 688).

Yes, we know that nobody in the past interprated this verse in the way we do now, not a singel Mufasir, but you have to keep in mind, that they were just human beings like us. Who could have imagined that we were living on a BIG ball, which was rotating in the heaven, around a bigger bal of fire?

The Qur'an was a miracle for ALL times, not just for the times of the Sahaba and the Tabien. We know some mathematical calculations in the Qur'an, about which the Sahaba and the Tabien didn't know. Allah had kept it hiden from them, and He revealed it to us in this century. The miracles of the Qur'an cannot be counted and they cannot end. The more you search, the more you will find in this magnificant book.

It's only recently after the theory that earth rotates on its axis has been establised, the religious scholars who know a little bit of science terminology try to impresses the believers that this theory is also mentioned in Quran. They could find this surah a little bit closer with which they could decieve the believers. In fact there's no science in Quran. That's why you see the religious scholars talk unscientifically when it comes to solve the real life problems. They skip the serious questions about life by saying that we shouldn't worry about this world because our life is temporary here. Their followers only reapeat their words, but they're the ones who worry most for their life in this world.

Which religious scholars? What are you talking about? Name me a singel scholar which interprated this verse in this way? Can you do that for me? Who says that there is no science in the Qur'an? Allah encourages us to look at the creation and to study science. Science is how we can find God and Allah speaks about science in the Qur'an.

Watch this debate between Zakir Naik and William Cambell

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw3do0TLv6o
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIdg51woug
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZs6MpIUhAQ
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-j_WRUDaw4

[iqbal_soofi]

What are you talking about? Where is your proof? Which mountains move after every wind storm in Arabia? +o( LOL


Abu Bakra narrated that the Prophet said: "It is incumbent on those who are present to convey this message of mine to those who are absent. May be that some of those to whom it will be conveyed will understand it better than those who have actually heard it." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 5, Book 59, Hadith 688).

Yes, we know that nobody in the past interprated this verse in the way we do now, not a singel Mufasir, but you have to keep in mind, that they were just human beings like us. Who could have imagined that we were living on a BIG ball, which was rotating in the heaven, around a bigger bal of fire?

The Qur'an was a miracle for ALL times, not just for the times of the Sahaba and the Tabien. We know some mathematical calculations in the Qur'an, about which the Sahaba and the Tabien didn't know. Allah had kept it hiden from them, and He revealed it to us in this century. The miracles of the Qur'an cannot be counted and they cannot end. The more you search, the more you will find in this magnificant book.


Which religious scholars? What are you talking about? Name me a singel scholar which interprated this verse in this way? Can you do that for me? Who says that there is no science in the Qur'an? Allah encourages us to look at the creation and to study science. Science is how we can find God and Allah speaks about science in the Qur'an.

Watch this debate between Zakir Naik and William Cambell

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw3do0TLv6o
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIdg51woug
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZs6MpIUhAQ
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-j_WRUDaw4

It's only the mountains of sand in desert that change with winds. If you don't want to believe it, then tell me what mountains this surah is about. Is it about the mountains of rock? Do you think rocky mountains fly with wind?

All science is there in Quran. This kind of statements are made by religious scholrs who don't even know the definition of science. You're an educated person, and you shouldn't repeat after the illiterate religious scholars. You know that science is a kind of knowledge which is developed by humans only.; whereas Quran is the book of rules sent by Allah. The laws and rules in science are constantly changing and nothing is final in science. Any human can challenge the scientific theories and modify or outcalss any scientific theory. On the other hand the rules in Quran are final and cannot be changed by humans. When you know all this then why do you talk like illiterate people?

[Trumble]

Koran 27:88. "When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of GOD, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do". (Rashad Khalifa Translation, 1935 - 1990).

Koran 27:88. "You think the mountains are solid. In fact, they move like clouds. It is God's technique which has established everything perfectly. He is well Aware of what you do". (Muhammad Sarwar Translation).

How can the mountains move like clouds in the sky, if the earth is standing still?! Subhan'Allah wallahu Akbar!! If Allah had said that the earth looks like a ball or that it's rotating, almost everyone would have thrown the Qur'an away in the past, but Allah said it in this manner, so that later generations would find out. Subhan'Allah! :thumbs_up

If you insist on such tenuous interpretations surely a (marginally) more likely one is that the verse refers to plate tectonics ('continental drift') rather than the rotation of the earth? However,

Some other translators did not know what was meant by this verse, so they connected it to the previews verses, which speak about the Day of Judgement, but the above given translations are the closest to the arabic text.

They may well be, but the alternative interpretation is rather more plausible. That verse is not only preceded by verses about the Day of Judgment but also immediately followed by them; indeed that is what the whole chapter is about. Why would a totally gratuitious verse about mountains 'moving' because of the earth's rotation (or indeed plate tectonics) be stuck in the middle of a chapter about Judgment Day for no apparent reason?

No, the interpretation that the seemingly solid mountains will "pass away like clouds" i.e come falling down like everything else, or words to that effect, as part of the Day of Judgment is far more plausible. On the one hand it's assuming (probably unjustifiably) that we know every possible Arabic linguistic nuance 1500 years after the event, and on the other its an alternative that fits the context like a glove. You can push the search for Qur'anic "scientific proofs" rather too far, I think.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

This is not a matter of translation error, it is a matter of the interpretation of this verse, and to understand what it means we should look at what the Scholars of Tafsir have said about the verse, and not interpret the Qur'an to our understanding in order to prove something scientifical. Whether such a scientifical matter is in the Qur'an or not, the Qur'an remains the the Truth and will always remain as such.

Now lets take a look at what Ibn Kathir has said regarding this verse in his tafsir:

﴿وَتَرَى الْجِبَالَ تَحْسَبُهَا جَامِدَةً وَهِىَ تَمُرُّ مَرَّ السَّحَابِ﴾

(And you will see the mountains and think them solid, but they shall pass away as the passing away of the clouds.) (27:88) meaning, you will see them as if they are fixed and as if they will remain as they are, but they will pass away as the passing away of the clouds, i.e., they will move away from their places. This is like the Ayat:

﴿يَوْمَ تَمُورُ السَّمَآءُ مَوْراً - وَتَسِيرُ الْجِبَالُ سَيْراً ﴾

(On the Day when the heaven will shake with a dreadful shaking, And the mountains will move away with a (horrible) movement.) (52:9-10)

﴿وَيَسْـَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْجِبَالِ فَقُلْ يَنسِفُهَا رَبِّى نَسْفاً - فَيَذَرُهَا قَاعاً صَفْصَفاً - لاَّ تَرَى فِيهَا عِوَجاً وَلا أَمْتاً ﴾

(And they ask you concerning the mountains: say, "My Lord will blast them and scatter them as particles of dust. Then He shall leave them as a level smooth plain. You will see therein nothing crooked or curved.'') (20:105-107),

﴿" وَيَوْمَ نُسَيِّرُ الْجِبَالَ وَتَرَى الاٌّرْضَ بَارِزَةً﴾

(And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away, and you will see the earth as a leveled plain.) (18:47).

And we find that this verse is in actuality speaking of the Day of Judgement when Allaah will cause the mountains to turn to dust and it is not speaking about the rotation of the Earth. Let us refrain from speaking about the verses of the Qur'an and attaching an interpretation to them that is not there because it is Haram for a lay person to interpret the verses of the Qur'an according to what they think.

The companions, like Abu Bakr, were scrupulous when it came to explaining the Qur’an, he used to say “What earth will hold me and what heaven will protect me if I say something concerning the Book of Allah which I do not know?”

That is something to ponder over.

[Battle_4_Peace]

It's only the mountains of sand in desert that change with winds. If you don't want to believe it, then tell me what mountains this surah is about. Is it about the mountains of rock? Do you think rocky mountains fly with wind?

I have never heard of any mountain in the desert that changes by the wind, wallahie. Give me proof for that. The Aya in the Qur'an is speaking about real mountains. The mountains move in the sky LIKE the clouds. How is that possible? The mountains don't move like the clouds, that's why the only explanation can be the rotation of the world.

All science is there in Quran. This kind of statements are made by religious scholrs who don't even know the definition of science. You're an educated person, and you shouldn't repeat after the illiterate religious scholars. You know that science is a kind of knowledge which is developed by humans only.; whereas Quran is the book of rules sent by Allah. The laws and rules in science are constantly changing and nothing is final in science. Any human can challenge the scientific theories and modify or outcalss any scientific theory. On the other hand the rules in Quran are final and cannot be changed by humans. When you know all this then why do you talk like illiterate people?

Who told you that religious scholars have said what I just said about the Aya above? Which scholars? Give me some names please, because I don't know of a singel scholar who interprated the verse in this way. This is new, and not many people know about it. I read this on a Dutch website.

If you insist on such tenuous interpretations surely a (marginally) more likely one is that the verse refers to plate tectonics ('continental drift') rather than the rotation of the earth?

Possibly, but that's not moving 'like the clouds'. And even then, it would be a miracle. Who knew about the movement of the tectonic plates back then?

They may well be, but the alternative interpretation is rather more plausible. That verse is not only preceded by verses about the Day of Judgment but also immediately followed by them; indeed that is what the whole chapter is about. Why would a totally gratuitious verse about mountains 'moving' because of the earth's rotation (or indeed plate tectonics) be stuck in the middle of a chapter about Judgment Day for no apparent reason?

The chapter also speaks about Qur'an, Salah, Zakah, ants, Moses, Solomo, David, Luth, Salih, rain, heavens, earth, good deeds, bad deeds etc. It's not only about the Day of Judgement. The Qur'an is not like a book we read, it jumps from one subject to another. That's why the Qur'an is unique, Subhan'Allah Tabarakallah.

Koran 27:88. "When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of GOD, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do". (Rashad Khalifa Translation, 1935 - 1990).

This translation and some others, do not speak about the future, they speak about what we see now. Read the Arabic verse, instead of translations.

And why would Allah say,

"Such is the manufacture of GOD, who perfected everything".

If it was indeed speaking about the desctruction of those mountains on the Day of Qiyamah?

This is not a matter of translation error, it is a matter of the interpretation of this verse, and to understand what it means we should look at what the Scholars of Tafsir have said about the verse, and not interpret the Qur'an to our understanding in order to prove something scientifical. Whether such a matter is in the Qur'an or not, the Qur'an remains the the Truth and will always remain as such.

Now lets take a look at what Ibn Kathir has said regarding this verse in his tafsir:


﴿وَتَرَى الْجِبَالَ تَحْسَبُهَا جَامِدَةً وَهِىَ تَمُرُّ مَرَّ السَّحَابِ﴾


(And you will see the mountains and think them solid, but they shall pass away as the passing away of the clouds.) (27:88) meaning, you will see them as if they are fixed and as if they will remain as they are, but they will pass away as the passing away of the clouds, i.e., they will move away from their places. This is like the Ayat:


﴿يَوْمَ تَمُورُ السَّمَآءُ مَوْراً - وَتَسِيرُ الْجِبَالُ سَيْراً ﴾


(On the Day when the heaven will shake with a dreadful shaking, And the mountains will move away with a (horrible) movement.) (52:9-10)


﴿وَيَسْـَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْجِبَالِ فَقُلْ يَنسِفُهَا رَبِّى نَسْفاً - فَيَذَرُهَا قَاعاً صَفْصَفاً - لاَّ تَرَى فِيهَا عِوَجاً وَلا أَمْتاً ﴾


(And they ask you concerning the mountains: say, "My Lord will blast them and scatter them as particles of dust. Then He shall leave them as a level smooth plain. You will see therein nothing crooked or curved.'') (20:105-107),


﴿" وَيَوْمَ نُسَيِّرُ الْجِبَالَ وَتَرَى الاٌّرْضَ بَارِزَةً﴾


(And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away, and you will see the earth as a leveled plain.) (18:47).


And we find that this verse is in actuality speaking of the Day of Judgement when Allaah will cause the mountains to turn to dust and it is not speaking about the rotation of the Earth. Let us refrain from speaking about the verses of the Qur'an and attaching an interpretation to them that is not there because it is Haram for a lay person to interpret the verses of the Qur'an according to what they think.

The companions, like Abu Bakr, were scrupulous when it came to explaining the Qur’an, he used to say “What earth will hold me and what heaven will protect me if I say something concerning the Book of Allah which I do not know?”

That is something to ponder over.

:w:

Jazakallah brother, we know what the Mufasirien have said about this Aya, but as I said, they were human beings like us. They could not have known that the earth is rotating. Ibn Kathir, (rahimahullah), also says in his Tafsir that the earth was created before the heaven (i.e. galaxies, sun, moon, stars etc.) That was based on his Ijtihaad.

No body knows the exact meaning of the Qur'an except Allah. But why object to something like this? There are dozens of Islamic website who say that this Aya is speaking about the movement of the tectonic plates? Why not object to that? What about the verses abot Big Bang and expanding of the universe? Even Shaykh Abdul Majid Al Zindani interates verses from the Qur'an to science. What did nobody say anything about that?

This is the same and this is based on the Ijtihad of some brothers, (students of knowledge), on a dutch website. If you agree with us, Alhamdolillah, if not, still Alhamdolillah :D

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:w:

Brother we know what the Mufasirien have said about this Aya, but as I said, they were human beings like us. They could not have known that the earth is rotating. Ibn Kathir, (rahimahullah), also says in his Tafsir that the earth was created before the sun. That was based on his Ijtihaad.

The difference between him and his interpretation and this is that he was qualified to make it. He had reached that state of knowledge (after studying the many sciences of Islam, Usul ul Qur'an, etc etc) which allowed him to make this interpretation. He explains verses by quoting other verses (as was done for this verse), and he quotes appropriate verses which explain the verse under discussion (as was done for this verse); then he quotes Ahadith that have been narrated on the same topic as the verse, and he quotes the isnaads of some. Then he quotes the views of the salaf, including the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, and he states which view he believes to be superior. He also avoids odd dissenting opinions.

It is quite a flawed comparison to compare him to the ones who have interpreted this verse as such.

No body knows the exact meaning of the Qur'an except Allah.

That is slightly incorrect. The Muhkamat ayat are clear and can be understood by everyone. The Mutashabihaat are the ones whose Ta'wil is known only to Allaah, and according some Mufassireen, the people of knowledge also know it.

But why object to something like this? There are dozens of Islamic website who say that this Aya is speaking about the movement of the tectonic plates? Why not object to that? What about the verses abot Big Bang and expanding of the universe?

You see that's exactly why I object to this explantion of this particular verse (27:88). It is Haram for the laymen to interpret the Qur'an based on themselves, and their limited knowledge of the Qur'an and Sunnah. The Messenger has said:

'Let Hell fire be the residence of who interprets the Qur'an according to his own view.'

This hadith was reported by at-Tirmidhi.

Even Shaykh Abdul Majid Al Zindani interates verses from the Qur'an to science. What did nobody say anything about that?

I do not know the scholar you are referring to, but there is no doubt that scientific facts are in the Qur'an such as the fetus stages etc. But what I objected to is the way you are interpreting this verse which was not the interpretation of the Classic Mufasireen and are changing its interpretation to 'prove' something else. The fact is that whether the rotation of the earth is mentioned in the Qur'an or not, the Qur'an is true. So let us stick to the Tafsir of the ones that have preceded us and whose tafsir is agreed upon (as being the most authentic such as Ibn Kathir, at-Tabari etc) instead of trying to use Qur'an to relate to modern science using verses that are clearly speaking about something else.

This is the same and this is based on the Ijtihad of some brothers (students of knowledge) on a dutch website. If you agree with us, Alhamdolillah, if not, still Alhamdolillah :D

Exactly, and tell me are some brothers who run a website qualified enough to give their own interpretations of the Qur'an, even if they are Students of Knowledge?! When at this time they are to be learning the Usul ul Qur'an and the sciences of Tafsir? When Abu Bakr himself was afraid to speak on the Qur'an, why are these brothers so forward? That is my point.

:w: :)

[Battle_4_Peace]

The difference between him and his interpretation and this is that he was qualified to make it. He had reached that state of knowledge (after studying the many sciences of Islam, Usul ul Qur'an, etc etc) which allowed him to make this interpretation. He explains verses by quoting other verses (as was done for this verse), and he quotes appropriate verses which explain the verse under discussion (as was done for this verse); then he quotes Ahadith that have been narrated on the same topic as the verse, and he quotes the isnaads of some. Then he quotes the views of the salaf, including the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, and he states which view he believes to be superior. He also avoids odd dissenting opinions. It is quite a flawed comparison to compare him to the ones who have interpreted this verse as such.

Brother Al MAdani :sl:

I say, we are not even a drop in a ocean compared to Ibn Kathir and the likes of him, (may Allah reward them for every word they have written). But let us have no illusions. It's a fact that we can understand some verses of the Qur'an better than people used to do in the past, like the verses about the rotation of sun and the moon, iron, water cycle, the two types of seas, the darknesses of the deep sea, that there are under water waves as well one above the other etc.

Allah had not given them the ability to find more out about these scientific facts, but today we know them, Alhamdolillaah. That's why the Qur'an is a book for the Alamien, and not only for the Sahaba or the Tabien, (may Allah be pleased with them).

You see that's exactly why I object to this explantion of this particular verse (27:88). It is Haram for the laymen to interpret the Qur'an based on themselves, and their limited knowledge of the Qur'an and Sunnah. The Messenger has said:

'Let Hell fire be the residence of who interprets the Qur'an according to his own view.'

This hadith was reported by at-Tirmidhi.

Something similar was narrated in (Abu Dawud, Book 25, Hadith 3644). We all know about this, brother. You are quoting Hadith's and sayings of the Sahaba at a wrong moment. They were not talking about this. You have to read what the muhaditien have said about that Hadith.

Can I go to Ibn Kathir, or Al Qurtubi, or At Tabari or any other Mufasir and say to him: "Let Hell fire be the residence of who interprets the Qur'an according to his own view?" Can I do that, like the Quranites, (may Allah guide them), did? Ibn Kathir is interpreting the verses according to his own view, because not everything he says in his Tafsir is from the Qur'an and Sunnah. Can I do that? No, because the Prophet was not talking about that. He was talking about people like Al Qaida who use the verse of Qisas as proof to attack thousands of innocent civilians, which is prohibited in Islam.

Yusair bin 'Amr narrated that the Prophet said: "There will appear some people who will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from (leave) Islam as an arrow darts through the game's body". (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 9, Book 84, Hadith 68).

The Qur'an verses do not go beyound their throats! They do not read what the Mufasirien have said about it, they do not know the rulings of qisas etc. They take just one verse from the Qur'an or one Hadith and then they give a fatwa that every american can be killed, wether soldier or civilian even if they contradict the Ijma of ALL scholars in the past.

So we shouldn't be like that. If we quote a verse from the Qur'an or a Hadith, we have to know in which context it was said and what the scholars have said about it. The above given verse is speaking about science, and people in the past did not know much about science. This is as far as I understand it, ALLAHU AALIM.

Take the verse about the two easts and the two wests. Zakir Naik and others have said something completely different than Ibn Kathir. Does it mean that one of them is going to Jahanam, because of that?

Take the verse about the two seas. Ibn Kathir says: "He has placed a barrier of land between these two types of waters, so that they do not transgress upon each other".

That's what he said, and by Allah, I am not trying to say bad stuff about Ibn Kathir, this man was masha'Allah one of the greatest mufasirien, respected over the whole world. But what I try to say is that today we know, that what Ibn Kathir said there, is not correct. Alhamdolillah, Ibn Kathir tried his best, to explaine those verses to the people BUT he could not have known the unseen, today we have seen and investigated the facts.

And Allah says,

"On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear". (Qur'an 2:286).

Allah will not hold him responsible for that, Insha'Allaah, because he did not know better. As we all know, a scholar will be rewarded, even for his mistakes if he had the right intention.

And, wallahie, I don't know why eveybody is taking it like this :haha:

I cannot force anyone to believe what I believe ofcourse. If you think that this interpetation is good, take it Alhamdolillah, if not, no problem at all.

I do not know the scholar you are referring to

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...cientists.html

Shaykh Zindani met all those scientists and showed them the Ayas of the Qur'an that speak about science and you can listin to what they said. Shaykh Zindani was a famous Mojahid as well, in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Majeed_al-Zindani

The fact is that whether the rotation of the earth is mentioned in the Qur'an or not, the Qur'an is true.

100% correct

There is no doubt that scientific facts are in the Qur'an such as the fetus stages etc. But what I objected to is the way you are interpreting this verse which was not the interpretation of the Classic Mufasireen and are changing its interpretation to 'prove' something else.

The same can be said about many other scientific Ayas as I said above. You cannot stick to the interpretations of the classic mufasirien if the Aya is speaking about science. If it is about Islam, then they are the ONES we should refer to, ALLWAYS.

But what the mufasirien had said in the past, is ofcourse, contradicting science today. Mufasirien said in the past that the earth is flat and the sun is rotating around the world, even some scholars of today. Why don't you stick to that? Because we know that it was based on their Ijtihad, and we do not blame them, and we know that there is no proof in the Qur'an that the earth is flat and the sun is rotating around the earth.

Wallahu Aalim,

[Pk_#2]

This thread is painful..

Respect the scholars people :)

*smak*

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Brother Al MAdani :sl:

:w: :)

I say, we are not even a drop in a ocean compared to Ibn Kathir and the likes of him, (may Allah reward them for every word they have written). But let us have no illusions. It's a fact that we can understand some verses of the Qur'an better than people used to do in the past, like the verses about the rotation of sun and the moon, iron, water cycle, the two types of seas, the darknesses of the deep sea, that there are under water waves as well one above the other etc.

That's true. But you are going off on a tangent. I did not deny that scientific facts are mentioned in the Qur'an. What my objection was with this erroneous interpretation of this specific verse which is clearly talking about something else.

Allah had not given them the ability to find more out about these scientific facts, but today we know them, Alhamdolillaah. That's why the Qur'an is a book for the Alamien, and not only for the Sahaba or the Tabien, (may Allah be pleased with them).

About scientific facts, I agree, however that should not result in taking a verse out of context in order to show a 'scientific fact' in the Qur'an. And we are to understand the Qur'an as they understood because they understood it best. However that does not contradict the fact that we find facts in the Qur'an that modern science is discovering today.

Something similar was narrated in (Abu Dawud, Book 25, Hadith 3644). We all know about this, brother. You are quoting Hadith's and sayings of the Sahaba at a wrong moment. They were not talking about this. You have to read what the muhaditien have said about that Hadith.

I have and it is not for the layman to interpret the Qur'an, the harms of this is greater than the benefits. Take a look at Syed Qutb for example, not a scholar in the least yet he wrote a tafsir and it contains many errors.

Can I go to Ibn Kathir, or Al Qurtubi, or At Tabari or any other Mufasir and say to him: "Let Hell fire be the residence of who interprets the Qur'an according to his own view?"

They were qualified.

Can I do that, like the Quranites, (may Allah guide them), did? Ibn Kathir is interpreting the verses according to his own view, because not everything he says in his Tafsir is from the Qur'an and Sunnah. Can I do that? No, because the Prophet was not talking about that.

That is a blanket statement. I answered this before:

He explains verses by quoting other verses (as was done for this verse), and he quotes appropriate verses which explain the verse under discussion (as was done for this verse); then he quotes Ahadith that have been narrated on the same topic as the verse, and he quotes the isnaads of some. Then he quotes the views of the salaf, including the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, and he states which view he believes to be superior. He also avoids odd dissenting opinions.

He was talking about people like Al Qaida who use the verse of Qisas as proof to attack thousands of innocent civilians, which is prohibited in Islam.

They are also included in this. But don't use them as a strawman.

Yusair bin 'Amr narrated that the Prophet said: "There will appear some people who will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from (leave) Islam as an arrow darts through the game's body". (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 9, Book 84, Hadith 68).

The Qur'an verses do not go beyound their throats! They do not read what the Mufasirien have said about it, they do not know the rulings of qisas etc. They take just one verse from the Qur'an or one Hadith and then they give a fatwa that every american can be killed, wether soldier or civilian even if they contradict the Ijma of ALL scholars in the past.

Agreed. And did you read what the mufassireen said about this verse?

So we shouldn't be like that. If we quote a verse from the Qur'an or a Hadith, we have to know in which context it was said and what the scholars have said about it. The above given verse is speaking about science, and people in the past did not know much about science. This is as far as I understand it, ALLAHU AALIM.

Do you notice the contradiction? Look at the context of the verse and you'll find that the verses around it speak of the Day of Judgement and not of the Signs of Allaah in the heavens and earth.

Your original statement was that the translators did not know, so you based your judgement on the translation.

Some other translators did not know what was meant by this verse, so they connected it to the previews verses, which speak about the Day of Judgement, but the above given translations are the closest to the arabic text.

Secondly, you are quoting Rashad Khalifa's translation, do you know who he was?

Take the verse about the two seas. Ibn Kathir says: "He has placed a barrier of land between these two types of waters, so that they do not transgress upon each other".

Isn't that what has been done? The fresh and salt water do not mix.

That's what he said, and by Allah, I am not trying to say bad stuff about Ibn Kathir, this man was masha'Allah one of the greatest mufasirien, respected over the whole world. But what I try to say is that today we know, that what Ibn Kathir said there, is not correct. Alhamdolillah, Ibn Kathir tried his best, to explaine those verses to the people BUT he could not have known the unseen, today we have seen and investigated the facts.

The error of your arguement is that you assume that I am speaking about every verse that has within it a scientific fact. The only thing that I am reffering to is that particular verse. Ibn Kathir's explanation was the correct one. Why? Take a look at the verses surrouding the verse in question:

87. And (remember) the Day on which the Trumpet will be blown and all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth, will be terrified except him whom Allah will (exempt). And all shall come to Him humbled.
88. And you will see the mountains and think them solid, but they shall pass away as the passing away of the clouds. The Work of All�h, Who perfected all things, verily! He is Well-Acquainted with what you do.
89. Whoever brings a good deed (i.e. Belief in the Oneness of All�h along with every deed of righteousness), will have better than its worth, and they will be safe from the terror on that Day.

Therefore, it is easy for even laymen to understand what this verse is referring to.

The same can be said about many other scientific Ayas as I said above. You cannot stick to the interpretations of the classic mufasirien if the Aya is speaking about science. If it is about Islam, then they are the ONES we should refer to, ALLWAYS.

But the verse in question (27:88) is not speaking about science but the occurences of the Day of Judgement. That's my point.

But what the mufasirien had said in the past, is ofcourse, contradicting science today. Mufasirien said in the past that the earth is flat and the sun is rotating around the world, even some scholars of today.

Are you referring to Shaykh Bin Baaz?
http://www.islamicboard.com/5211-post1.html
http://calgaryislam.com/imembers/mod...icle&artid=237

Why don't you stick to that? Because we know that it was based on their Ijtihad, and we do not blame them, and we know that there is no proof in the Qur'an that the earth is flat and the sun is rotating around the earth.
Wallahu Aalim,

See above.

It seems that you have completely missed my point and have gone off of several tangets. However, my point was that the interpretation given of the specific verse (27:88) in the first post was completely flawed. I am not saying anything against other verses that clearly mention scientific facts, but to take a verse that is clearly speaking about something else and use it to prove the Qur'an is wrong.

Wallahu Alam.

:w: :)

[NoName55]

This surah clealy says that mountains move like clouds. It was said about the mountains of the sand in the Arabian deserts that move with the wind. After every wind storm the position of these sand mountains change because the sand from one mountain flies away and forms another mountain. This surah didin't point towards the rotatin of earth. Also this surah was never related to the earth's rotation by the messenger of Allah. He never said that earth rotates or anything like this in his life. There was no ceoncept of earth's rotation at that time. It's only recently after the theory that earth rotates on its axis has been establised, the religious scholars who know a little bit of science terminology try to impresses the believers that this theory is also mentioned in Quran. They could find this surah a little bit closer with which they could decieve the believers. In fact there's no science in Quran. That's why you see the religious scholars talk unscientifically when it comes to solve the real life problems. They skip the serious questions about life by saying that we shouldn't worry about this world because our life is temporary here. Their followers only reapeat their words, but they're the ones who worry most for their life in this world.

So moving mountain has nothing to do with tectonic plates?does arabic not have a word for sand dune?is it same as it is for a mountain?

Plate tectonics

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bridge across the Álfagjá rift valley in southwest Iceland, the boundary of the Eurasian and North American continental tectonic plates.




Plate tectonics (from Greek τέκτων, tektōn "builder" or "mason") is a fact of geology that has been developed to explain the observed evidence for large scale motions of the Earth's crust. The theory encompassed and superseded the older theory of continental drift from the first half of the 20th century and the concept of seafloor spreading developed during the 1960s.
The outermost part of the Earth's interior is made up of two layers: above is the lithosphere, comprising the crust and the rigid uppermost part of the mantle. Below the lithosphere lies the asthenosphere. Although solid, the asthenosphere has relatively low viscosity and shear strength and can flow like a liquid on geological time scales. The deeper mantle below the asthenosphere is more rigid again. This is, however, due not to cooler temperatures but to high pressure.
The lithosphere is broken up into what are called tectonic plates—in the case of Earth, there are seven major and many minor plates (see list below). The lithospheric plates ride on the asthenosphere. These plates move in relation to one another at one of three types of plate boundaries: convergent, divergent, and transform. Earthquakes, volcanic activity, mountain-building, and oceanic trench formation occur along plate boundaries. The lateral movement of the plates is typically at speeds of 0.66 to 8.50 centimeters per year.

ok then, thank you

[NoName55]

Scientists, philosophers, writers, poets are better scholars. I respect them.

Our holy prophet always respect the scholars. Just to remind you that there were no religious scholars at that time. He wanted Muslims to learn from the scholars. He ordered not to kill the scholars in the kafirs who were held in the battle of Badr. He asked eah of the kafir scholars to teach 10 Muslims the knowledge which they had.

and I thought they were just prisoners of war who could read and write and if they taught 10 illiterat Muslims to read and write, they could get their freedom back

ok thanks again, I am learning

[Battle_4_Peace]

Al Madani :sl:

They were qualified.

The Prophet did not say: "Let Hell fire be the residence of who interprets the Qur'an according to his own view, EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE QUALIFIED". The Hadith is speaking in general. The Hadith is speaking about people who want to ban stoning and quote (24:2), people who want to drink alcohol and quote (83:25), people who want to believe that today even kufaar can go to Jahannam and quote (2:62) etc.

You cannot do that and it’s true that you have to be qualified before you can interprate the Qur’an. You cannot become a Mufasir by reading online books. But what you don’t understand, my dear brother, is that the Aya is speaking about science. I do however understand why you think it's speaking about Yawmal Qiyamah.

Agreed. And did you read what the mufassireen said about this verse?

Yes, but as I said, we cannot stick to mufasirien if the Aya is speaking about science.

Isn't that what has been done? The fresh and salt water do not mix.

No, there is no barier of land that is deviding the two seas.

It seems that you have completely missed my point and have gone off of several tangets. However, my point was that the interpretation given of the specific verse (27:88) in the first post was completely flawed. I am not saying anything against other verses that clearly mention scientific facts, but to take a verse that is clearly speaking about something else and use it to prove the Qur'an is wrong.

Alhamdolillah, if you don’t agree with out interpretation, then reject it. Nobody is forcing youto agree with us. One verse of the Qur’an was interpretated in hundred different ways in the past. Scholars differed, Sahaba differed, Tabien differed, the Muslims differed, no problem at all.

But you have to read the translations I gave you and most important of all, the Arabic text and you will see that our interpretation does also match with it. That’s what I think, but Allahu Aalim.

Are you referring to Shaykh Bin Baaz?

Yes, Shaykh Ibn Baz, (rahmatullah alaih), and many others did say that the earth is flat. I want you to name me 1 Mufassir of the past who believed the earth was round and that it was rotating around the sun, just one. You cannot do that, because they all believed that the earth was flat and that the sun was rotating around the world. We do not blame them for that ofcourse, because Allah had kept it hiden from them. So how can we stick to those opinions and tafasirs about certain scientific Aya’s?

Conclusion: As far as I understand, the Aya can be interprated in many ways, and even the way I showed you. If you don’t agree with our interpretation, that’s up to you. :statisfie

[NoName55]

:sl:

No, there is no barier of land that is deviding the two seas.

which 2 seas?

...............Yes, Shaykh Ibn Baz, (rahmatullah alaih), and many others did say that the earth is flat. ....................... they all believed that the earth was flat and that the sun was rotating around the world.

they thought earth was flat, sun rotated around the world?

how does sun rotate around a flat world?since one can only see it going in one direction.

did those people never travel outside their own villages?
was the no kind of shipping or travel in those days?
if they travelled how did they navigate if the thought world (earth) was flat?

were romans not ruling egypt/Israel long before ibn Baz r.a.
did they walk all the way from Italy?How did vikings or french manage to go overseas in a flat world?

I am confused

:w:

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:
which 2 seas?

they thought earth was flat, sun rotated around the world?

how does sun rotate around a flat world?since one can only see it going in one direction.

did those people never travel outside their own villages?
was the no kind of shipping or travel in those days?
if they travelled how did they navigate if the thought world (earth) was flat?

were romans not ruling egypt/Israel long before ibn Baz r.a.
did they walk all the way from Italy?How did vikings or french manage to go overseas in a flat world?

I am confused

:w:

:sl:

No, let me quote what Shaykh Bin Baaz said:

According to the people knowledge (scholars of Islaam) the earth is round, for indeed Ibn Hazim and a group of other scholars mentioned that there is a consensus (unanimous agreement, Ijmaa') among the people of knowledge that it is round.This means that all of it is connected together thus making the form of the entire planet like a ball. However, Allaah has spread out surface for us and He has placed firm mountains upon it and placed the animals and the seas upon it as a mercy for us. For this reason, Allaah said:

"And (do they not look) at the Earth, how it was made FLAT (Sutihat)." [Al-Ghaashiyyah (88):20]

Therefore, it (the Earth) has been made flat for us in regards to its surface, so that people can live on it and so that people can be comfortable upon it. The fact that it is round does not prevent that its surface has been made flat. This is because something that is round and very large, if it is made flat (its surface), then its surface will become very vast or broad (i.e. having a flat appearance). Yes."

http://www.islamicboard.com/5211-post1.html
http://calgaryislam.com/imembers/mod...icle&artid=237

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Al Madani :sl:

:w: :)

The Prophet did not say: "Let Hell fire be the residence of who interprets the Qur'an according to his own view, EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE QUALIFIED". The Hadith is speaking in general. The Hadith is speaking about people who want to ban stoning and quote (24:2), people who want to drink alcohol and quote (83:25), people who want to believe that today even kufaar can go to Jahannam and quote (2:62) etc.

Have the ones who interpreted this studied Usul ul Quran? Do you know how long these mufassireen studied before they did Tafsir? And today we have young brothers coming out with their own explanations, Masha'Allaah.

You cannot do that and it’s true that you have to be qualified before you can interprate the Qur’an. You cannot become a Mufasir by reading online books. But what you don’t understand, my dear brother, is that the Aya is speaking about science. I do however understand why you think it's speaking about Yawmal Qiyamah.

You did not answer my question, Akhi. You are flipping between your words. This is what you have stated before:

If we quote a verse from the Qur'an or a Hadith, we have to know in which context it was said and what the scholars have said about it.

And the context of this verse is the Day of Judgement.

Yes, but as I said, we cannot stick to mufasirien if the Aya is speaking about science.

Your interpretation of this verse speaks of science is in drastic odds with the mufasireen that have studied the Islamic sciences. Not to mention that it is completely out of context.

Alhamdolillah, if you don’t agree with out interpretation, then reject it. Nobody is forcing youto agree with us. One verse of the Qur’an was interpretated in hundred different ways in the past. Scholars differed, Sahaba differed, Tabien differed, the Muslims differed, no problem at all.

Because those were verses whose interpretations did not negate the other. For example, some scholars interpretated "Sirat Al Mustaqim" as the Qur'an, some as Abu Bakr and Umar and some as Islam. Is there a contradiction? No. Yet their interpretations are different.

However the case with this verse is that it is clearly talking about something else, is in a completely different context (not to mention that you have used a flawed translation of Rashad Khalifa).

But you have to read the translations I gave you and most important of all, the Arabic text and you will see that our interpretation does also match with it. That’s what I think, but Allahu Aalim.

Not at all. The verses are in a future tense.

Yes, Shaykh Ibn Baz, (rahmatullah alaih), and many others did say that the earth is flat. I want you to name me 1 Mufassir of the past who believed the earth was round and that it was rotating around the sun, just one. You cannot do that, because they all believed that the earth was flat and that the sun was rotating around the world. We do not blame them for that ofcourse, because Allah had kept it hiden from them. So how can we stick to those opinions and tafasirs about certain scientific Aya’s?

You are the one making the claim and are asking me for proof?! And you ignored the links I provided you as well. Refer to my previous post Akhi.

:w:

[strider]

iqbal_soofi: I think for you to say the Quran makes no reference to science is alittle naive to say the least. Alright, you may not interpret the Quran in the same light as the next person but you can't deny that there is evidence to suggest an alternative opinion and so long as that is there to say there is no science in the Quran holds no water.

[iqbal_soofi]

iqbal_soofi: I think for you to say the Quran makes no reference to science is alittle naive to say the least. Alright, you may not interpret the Quran in the same light as the next person but you can't deny that there is evidence to suggest an alternative opinion and so long as that is there to say there is no science in the Quran holds no water.

I never said that Quran makes no reference to science. There're some references about science in Quran. My point is that Quran doesn't teach science. I'd once again state that science is a man made subject which is ever changing with new inventions and discoveries. Most of the science is developed through assumptions or theories. As you very well know that a theory is just a theory or guess work. It cannot be 100% right. So it has to change in the light of new evidence. There's nothing for granted in science. On the other hand it's our faith that everything in Quran is for granted.

[NoName55]

:sl:

No, let me quote what Shaykh Bin Baaz said:

:wasalamex
:thumbs_up
جزاکالله خیرا

[Battle_4_Peace]

:sl:

No, let me quote what Shaykh Bin Baaz said:

According to the people knowledge (scholars of Islaam) the earth is round, for indeed Ibn Hazim and a group of other scholars mentioned that there is a consensus (unanimous agreement, Ijmaa') among the people of knowledge that it is round.This means that all of it is connected together thus making the form of the entire planet like a ball. However, Allaah has spread out surface for us and He has placed firm mountains upon it and placed the animals and the seas upon it as a mercy for us. For this reason, Allaah said:

"And (do they not look) at the Earth, how it was made FLAT (Sutihat)." [Al-Ghaashiyyah (88):20]

Therefore, it (the Earth) has been made flat for us in regards to its surface, so that people can live on it and so that people can be comfortable upon it. The fact that it is round does not prevent that its surface has been made flat. This is because something that is round and very large, if it is made flat (its surface), then its surface will become very vast or broad (i.e. having a flat appearance). Yes."


http://www.islamicboard.com/5211-post1.html
http://calgaryislam.com/imembers/mod...icle&artid=237

:w:

Why don't you quote this statement of Ibn Baz, (rahmatullah alaih),

"As far as its (earths) rotation, then I have denied it and explained the evidences denying it. However, I did not declare kufr upon the one who upholds it. I only declared kufr upon the one who says that the sun is stationary and does not run on a course because this statement collides with the clarity of the Noble Qur’an and the pure authentic Sunnah which both prove that the sun and the moon both run on a course".
(Source: http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...articleid=258).

Have the ones who interpreted this studied Usul ul Quran? Do you know how long these mufassireen studied before they did Tafsir? And today we have young brothers coming out with their own explanations, Masha'Allaah.

Yes, Yes, Yes, brother, you are repeating the same things again and again. The brothers did not write a Tafsir! They said that this Aya might be speaking about the rotation of the earth. What's wrong with that saying? Why can't you accept this interpretation?

Why don't you understand that different people may interprete certain verses different? The scholars have allways differed. We can open a toppic only about the difference interpretations of certain Aya's from the Qur'an. They did differ and that's what happened between us now. If you don't want to accept our interpretation, then don't, but why keep repeating the same things over and over again? :)

You did not answer my question, Akhi. You are flipping between your words. This is what you have stated before: "If we quote a verse from the Qur'an or a Hadith, we have to know in which context it was said and what the scholars have said about it". And the context of this verse is the Day of Judgement.

That's your opinion.




"EARTH’S MOVEMENT IN SPACE: The earth rotates round the sun once every 365.25 days. Whilst doing so it is tilted on it’s axis at an angle of 33 degrees. As a result the seasons occur making it possible for the habitation of the planet. If the earth were not tilted on its axis the poles would have been submerged in continuous cold darkness preventing the seasonal thaw of the polar ice. The accumulating ice would eventually result in nonshifting frozen poles and little water elsewhere. The rotation of the earth around the sun was not known in the 7th century. At that time it was still thought of the earth as a nonmoving planet at the center of the universe. Due to the apparent movement of the sun, moon and stars in the sky, it was thought that they are moving around the earth. The movement of the earth in space is confirmed in the following verse: "“When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of God, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do.” (Qur’an, 27:88). Since the earth is moving in space thus everything on earth is moving with it, including the mountains.

The earth rotates about an axis going from the south to the North Pole. The main force acting on the earth is the force of gravity from the sun. Because this force acts on the center of mass of the earth it does produce any torque with respect to the axis of rotation and so the angular momentum cannot change. This is what gives us a day of constant length since prehistoric times. Not only that but the axis of rotation of earth is tilted with respect to the plane formed by the orbit of earth around the sun. This tilt is what causes the seasons to change through the year because when we are on one side of the sun the tilt causes the northern hemisphere to see the sun at closer to normal angle of incidence than when the earth is on the other side of the sun. The result is the difference in climate between summer and winter at a given geographical location. It is because the angular momentum associated with the earths almost circular trajectory about the sun is conserved that it takes exactly half a year each year to get from one side of the sun to the other". (Source: http://www.quranm.multicom.ba/science/3e-science.htm).



"The following verse indicate clearly the movement of the earth in relation to the space around it in a very straight words that dosn't even need an interpretation, and the verse is, Sura 27 verse 88 {When you look at the mountains , you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of God, who perfected everything He is fully cognizant of everything you do}. Needless to say that because the mountains are a part of the earth that verse indicate the movement of the earth".
(Source: http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...6&sscatid=147).


Answering Christianity wrote, "Why did Allah Almighty say in the Noble Quran that the mountains pass like the clouds in the sky do? We all know that to humans, the earth doesn't really move. Everything is standing still, except during the times of earth quakes. So what is the purpose from Allah Almighty telling us that the mountains are moving? By the way, the "mountains" here is not just limited to mountains, but rather it includes the whole ground we're standing on, since like I said, to us humans, the earth doesn't move, except during the times of earth quakes. And the mountains are obviously connected with the ground. By the way, clouds never really move away. They only rotate around the earth and travel above the earth; above land to land. So if the mountains (the whole ground of earth since the mountains are part of earth) are "moving, like the clouds", then this means that the earth is also moving in circle around its axle. So, why didn't Allah Almighty just say so? Allah Almighty 1500 years ago did not want to make irrational and CRAZY statements that would've been refused and considered as absurd and utter nonsense to the people who lacked a great deal of knowledge about astronomy and geology. The Miracle of the Noble Quran is that while Allah Almighty made the statement in Noble Verse 27:88 acceptable to the people back then, He also included the scientific claim in it for us today, and told us that the earth does indeed move around its axle".
(Source: http://www.animal-cruelty.com/earth_rotation.htm).



"The movement of the earth in space is confirmed in the following verse: "When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of God, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do." (27:88). Since the earth is moving in space thus everthing on earth is moving with it, including the mountains". (Source: http://www.---------------/life.html).



"We read, in the Quran, another clear hint to the mountains 'swim' in space which, consequently, implies that the earth moves in space since both it and the mountains are one mass: "You see the mountains deeming them firm while they pass away like clouds". (The Ant, 88). This means that the mountains which appear solid and inert really 'float' in space." (Dr. Mustafa Mahmoud, "Dialogue With An Atheist". Page 114 and 115).



The same Aya is used by thousands of 'Da3ees', including Harun Yahya, as proof that the tectonic plates of earth move the mountains. Why don't you go to them and tell them that they are not qualified to say that? Read that Tafasir about the Aya's that Zakir Naik uses, in his dawa. What did he say, that was confirmed by the mufasirien of the past? He did contradict them. Why don't you go to him and tell him that he is not qualified for that?

We do not say that everything in the Qur'an is science etc. The message of the Qur'an was not to tell us how a plant or patato grows. The Qur'an is a message, warning and glad tidings to the worlds. But we cannot deny that there is science in the Qur'an. That would be like denying of the sun during day.

You are the one making the claim and are asking me for proof?! And you ignored the links I provided you as well. Refer to my previous post Akhi.

You could not answer my question, and the reason for that is, that all mufasirien, (may Allah be pleased with them), of the past believed the earth was standing still and the sun was rotating. So why don't you follow them in this matter? That's my question to you.

Which 2 seas?

The fresh and salty waters.

They thought earth was flat, sun rotated around the world?

how does sun rotate around a flat world?since one can only see it going in one direction.

did those people never travel outside their own villages?
was the no kind of shipping or travel in those days?
if they travelled how did they navigate if the thought world (earth) was flat?

were romans not ruling egypt/Israel long before ibn Baz r.a.
did they walk all the way from Italy?How did vikings or french manage to go overseas in a flat world?

I am confused

Please forgive me, my mistake, they did not believe the earth was rotating AROUND the world, but they did believe it was rotating and the earth was standing still. We do not blame them for that ofcourse, who could have imagined that the earth was rotating around the sun? :?

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:w:

Why don't you quote this statement of Ibn Baz, (rahmatullah alaih),

"As far as its (earths) rotation, then I have denied it and explained the evidences denying it. However, I did not declare kufr upon the one who upholds it. I only declared kufr upon the one who says that the sun is stationary and does not run on a course because this statement collides with the clarity of the Noble Qur’an and the pure authentic Sunnah which both prove that the sun and the moon both run on a course".
(Source: http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=258).

:w:

I am aware of this, but this was not my point. My point was regarding that specific verse.

Yes, Yes, Yes, brother, you are repeating the same things again and again. The brothers did not write a Tafsir! They said that this Aya might be speaking about the rotation of the earth. What's wrong with that saying? Why can't you accept this interpretation?

But they took it on themselves to interpret a verse didnt they?! But khair..this arguement is going no where.

Why don't you understand that different people may interprete certain verses different? The scholars have allways differed. We can open a toppic only about the difference interpretations of certain Aya's from the Qur'an. They did differ and that's what happened between us now. If you don't want to accept our interpretation, then don't, but why keep repeating the same things over and over again? :)

I am aware of that Akhi. What my point was that, this new interpretation of the verse is greatly at odds (and out of context) and I was showing you the flaws within it. And I did say that the scholars do interpret verses differently, I gave the example of the 'Sirat al Mustaqim'.

"The movement of the earth in space is confirmed in the following verse: "When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of God, who perfected everything. He is fully Cognizant of everything you do." (27:88). Since the earth is moving in space thus everthing on earth is moving with it, including the mountains". (Source: http://www.---------------/life.html).

Akhi, do you know who run the submitters website?

The same Aya is used by thousands of 'Da3ees', including Harun Yahya, as proof that the tectonic plates of earth move the mountains. Why don't you go to them and tell them that they are not qualified to say that? Read that Tafasir about the Aya's that Zakir Naik uses, in his dawa. What did he say, that was confirmed by the mufasirien of the past? He did contradict them. Why don't you go to him and tell him that he is not qualified for that?

Harun Yahya's works are good Masha'Allaah but they contain errors. Zakir Naik Masha'Allaah is an excellent Comparitive Religion scholar, the best of this day and age. I have yet to come upon 'thousands' of Daee's.

We do not say that everything in the Qur'an is science etc. The message of the Qur'an was not to tell us how a plant or patato grows. The Qur'an is a message, warning and glad tidings to the worlds. But we cannot deny that there is science in the Qur'an. That would be like denying of the sun during day.

Agreed.

You could not answer my question, and the reason for that is, that all mufasirien, (may Allah be pleased with them), of the past believed the earth was standing still and the sun was rotating. So why don't you follow them in this matter? That's my question to you.

I have yet to find this in my readings bro. But khair, lets end this here Insha'Allaah, we can benefit ourselves elsewhere.

[hibah786]

May Allah grant us good in this dunya and good and the hearafter and protect us all from the torment of hell. Ameen.

[NoName55]

......

My Question:
Which 2 seas?

Your Answer:
The fresh and salty waters.

My new question:
can you, please name a few sweet water oceans/seas

Originally Posted by Battle_4_Peace

No, there is no barier of land that is deviding the two seas.

Who said there was a land Barrier?


My 2nd series of Questions was:

1. They thought earth was flat, sun rotated around the world?
2. how does sun rotate around a flat world?since one can only see it going in one direction.
3. did those people never travel outside their own villages?
4. was the no kind of shipping or travel in those days?
5. if they travelled how did they navigate if the thought world (earth) was flat?
6. were romans not ruling egypt/Israel long before ibn Baz r.a. did they walk all the way from Italy?
7. How did vikings or french manage to go overseas in a flat world?

I am confused

Your Answer:

Please forgive me, my mistake, they did not believe the earth was rotating AROUND the world, but they did believe it was rotating and the earth was standing still. We do not blame them for that ofcourse, who could have imagined that the earth was rotating around the sun? :?

My New request:

Please pay attention to what is asked, your reply doesn't seem to have a remotest bit of connection with my questions.
Are you trying to confuse me?
:w:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I'm not sure I understand what is so amazing about a verse that could be interpreted as saying the Earth rotates. It doesn't actually spell that out of course, despite the alleged 'clarity' of the Qur'an, but even if it did, would it be that much of a revelation? After all, some scientists had been teaching that the Earth rotated for centuries before the Qur'an was written. See here.

Peace

[Snowflake]

Greetings,

I'm not sure I understand what is so amazing about a verse that could be interpreted as saying the Earth rotates. It doesn't actually spell that out of course, despite the alleged 'clarity' of the Qur'an, but even if it did, would it be that much of a revelation? After all, some scientists had been teaching that the Earth rotated for centuries before the Qur'an was written. See here.

Peace

True there were a few thought the earth rotated before the Quran was revealed but the other things they associated with the earth's roation were incorrect. But the Quran is the only divine scripture which states this as a fact and not merely a conjecture. So far nothing from the Quran has been proven wrong. To me that is amazing! :D

Nicolaus de Cusa (1401 - 1464) thought that the Earth rotated, but also thought that the stars rotated around the center of the Earth at the same time, which is incorrect. Celio Calcagnini (1479 - 1541) wrote that the Earth rotated, but he tried to also explain other things as a result of the rotation of the Earth, such as the seasons, that are not caused by that rotation at all, so it seems that he didn't really understand what he was writing about. In 1543, Nicolaus Copernicus (1473 - 1543) published a book in which he swept away Ptolemy's ideas and said that the Earth rotates around its axis, the stars are fixed, and the Earth orbits around the Sun as well. After this, more and more people started to agree with Copernicus that the Earth rotates.

[Trumble]

Possibly, but that's not moving 'like the clouds'.

Neither is the rotation of the earth.

And even then, it would be a miracle. Who knew about the movement of the tectonic plates back then?

Absolutely nobody, of course, which is more than can be said for the rotation of the earth. That misses the point, though, which is that there is an alternative 'scientific' interpretation which is just as plausible but totally different. How many more could you come up with in relation to any of a thousand passages in the Qur'an? The 'miracle' is only the ingenuity of the 'interpreter' and is only there if you want to see it - there is a huge difference between 'interpretation' and what the verse actually says, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the rotation of the earth, or indeed plate tectonics.

I'm always reluctant to delegate authority on anything to 'scholars'; anyone one with any experience of religious academia at all will know that they are just as prone to violent (metaphorically - usually :statisfie ) disagreement as anybody else, not to mention frequently getting it plain wrong. If there is a God he gave us a brain for a purpose, to make up our own minds taking advice from those more experienced in such matters, maybe, but no more. But.. in this case the scholars are right, the standard interpretation is just that for a reason; in the context in which the passage is found it makes sense. The alternative makes no contextual sense at all, and should be rejected for that reason alone, quite apart from any others.

[cute123]

:sl:

First of all I would like to say that you all are very precious and in the least I dont have any intention to hurt anyone but I wanted to speak maybe it would be of some help. Think from your heart not your mind
To the person who started the thread , as we know every action is based upon intention, it looks very satisfactory when we know that what we know is already been said in Quran, isnt it a process of satisfying your own mind and being happy that you are following the right religion, through this dilemna might be everybody goes through, its a process when we are learning about our religion. The first and foremost thing in ISLAM is complete submission means excepting ALLAH TALLAH before ourselves without reason.
Everybody then strives hard to please ALLAH TALLAH , in his own ways through love and through his fears. Now ask yourself are we better than all the scholars who have lived through ISLAM in the sense spend most of their time being close to ALLAH TALLAH. Because what you say directly or indirectly means it , would you like to earn ALLAH TALLAH's wrath . As far as belief is concerned if you continously strive , ALLAH TALLAH will enrich you in knowledge INSHALLAHTALLAH. Have patience All Guidance is from HIM,

Still in anyways if you could not understand , plz do ignore the said words.

:w: