A day in Gods world is a million here

Hi.

My Mum and lots of other Christians answer the question.
"Umm the world developed over millions of years...so whats with the 7 days thingy", with the response, " Ahh, but a day here is like a million or something in heaven....and God knows best"

Anyone know when this phenomenon took off? i mean If God told Abraham or whatever prophet he was talking to at the time, the world was made in 7 days...why diddnt he just say, the world was made in 7000000000 of your earth years. Totally less confusing. i'm sure if the ancients hadnt a number for 70000000000 then God could have said " Each day that the world was made in was equal to a sand bucket and each grain was a year, after half a bucket I made Birds and after a cupful of sand I seperated light from dark, which is quite a trick , cos what were they before eh? lighty-dark? Anyway, then after the bucket was nearly full I created man...and It was good"

But he diddnt. He said 7 Days. Islam says he diddnt have to rest and it was 5 (?) days and the jews had misheard this or deliberatly changed it.

So when did the Church /Clergy /immams start saying "A day is a billion squillion years". Was it at the time when carbon dating proved that Birds came 200 million years after "Beasts of the land".

Cos if so then it just so smacks of the prophets getting racked off with thousands of people queing up and asking questions like .
"Is My blue your blue? "
"I just gotta know! how long did this place take to be built? Ask him!"
"If I eat my own leg, do i still weight the same?"
"Whats with Spanials! Why are their legs so short?"

One thing I have learned from when I lived in the mid east. The Arab concept of time for much of the Arab world does not equate with Western thought. Oddly when you read about it in Arabic it makes sense. The best way to say it is the concept of Youm(day) seems to make more sense if you think of it in terms of just meaning a period of time rather than as 24 hours. Although it can mean the period from one sunrise to the next sunrise.

The rest of your questions I do not have sufficient knowledge to even attempt to answer.

Yeah, thats my point though. we take it now as a "period of time".
We could have taken it as a "period of time" when it was revealed to the prophets. But God said 7 days.

That was all well and good for thousands of years before we learned the actual ages of things. Now we know it wasnt 7 days or 5 days or whatever days.

as soon as we did, the beleivers of all those faiths simply say "ahh but a day is a period of time". Well why diddnt God say it was a period of time then?

And why did this idea of a "period of time" suddenly start with the discovery of earths make-up.

If you told a guy in 1520AD that the world was made in 7 days, he would be happy. Sure..OK ...he would say....Cant prove any different.But now we can.

Basically the "million years= a day and period of time" arguements have changed gods word as it was reveled in order to shore up the religions.

barney said:

Yeah, thats my point though. we take it now as a "period of time".
We could have taken it as a "period of time" when it was revealed to the prophets. But God said 7 days.

That was all well and good for thousands of years before we learned the actual ages of things. Now we know it wasnt 7 days or 5 days or whatever days.

as soon as we did, the beleivers of all those faiths simply say "ahh but a day is a period of time". Well why diddnt God say it was a period of time then?

And why did this idea of a "period of time" suddenly start with the discovery of earths make-up.

If you told a guy in 1520AD that the world was made in 7 days, he would be happy. Sure..OK ...he would say....Cant prove any different.But now we can.

Basically the "million years= a day and period of time" arguements have changed gods word as it was reveled in order to shore up the religions.

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I'm not certain as to what Hebrew word was used in the Torah. But if memory serves me right they also used the word youm. The mideastern concept of time has always been vague to me. I have come across many Mideasterners Muslim, Christian and Jewish tell me that we have been in the same youm since Adam(PBUH) but the youm has been divided by many nights.

Thanks for the reply, I'll look into that.
Well thats fair enough for Islam then, although the idea of a word that can mean a specific period of time or just period of time is weird to me. but if thats what it is...thats what it is and it lets Islam out the door on this point.

Christianity and Judism next! Whats the answer! Why are preists saying "a million years = a day when God said a day, and why did this answer only appear when carbon dating appeared?

barney said:

That was all well and good for thousands of years before we learned the actual ages of things. Now we know it wasnt 7 days or 5 days or whatever days.

as soon as we did, the beleivers of all those faiths simply say "ahh but a day is a period of time".

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Yusuf Ali's translation of the Qur'an is pretty old (from the 1930's) and he still says that the 'days' are actually periods of time.

barney said:

Anyone know when this phenomenon took off?

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Presumably the original Jewish creation myth (or whatever that derived from) was taken seriously, or some people began to take it seriously. The other religions just adopted the same myth. As you have pretty much suggested the linguistic hoops are just are an attempt to avoid the fact that the myth is obvious twaddle and are possibly just plausible enough to allow same if you believe in the divine origin of the descriptions concerned. It may well point to something deeper or be allegorical in some way - such is the way with myths.

Strangely I've never actually heard of this concept of 1 day=a million.

My thought has always been how can God be restricted by our concept of time?

Time is basicaly a human concept used a unit of measurement. I can not think of how "Time" can be applied to an eternal God(swt).

We can not even prove that two clocks standing side by side are measuring the same second equally.

It is fairly well accepted that a second measured on earth would not be the same as a second measured on a space ship traveling at the speed of light, although all instruments on the space ship would show it as the same and it would feel the same to any people on the space ship. But, many years on earth would pass as that one second on the space ship passed and in our measurements they would both be one second.

buriedaway_4536 said:

My thought has always been how can God be restricted by our concept of time?

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I agree. How often do we say a dog is this many years old (measuring by OUR time) rather then say the dog is this many years old (measuring by dog years)?

A day is the length of time that it takes a planet to rotate on its axis (360°). A day on Earth takes almost 24 hours.

The planet with the longest day is Venus; a day on Venus takes 243 Earth days. (A day on Venus is longer than its year; a year on Venus takes only 224.7 Earth days).

The planet with the shortest day is Jupiter; a day on Jupiter only takes 9.8 Earth hours! When you observe Jupiter from Earth, you can see some of its features change.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/

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So how does someone from jupitar or venus measure how long the earth was created for? how about someone from space? Why do they feel the need to say earth years, when they say day as we say day but they day is not the same as ours.

barney said:

Hi.

My Mum and lots of other Christians answer the question.
"Umm the world developed over millions of years...so whats with the 7 days thingy", with the response, " Ahh, but a day here is like a million or something in heaven....and God knows best"

Anyone know when this phenomenon took off? i mean If God told Abraham or whatever prophet he was talking to at the time, the world was made in 7 days...why diddnt he just say, the world was made in 7000000000 of your earth years. Totally less confusing. i'm sure if the ancients hadnt a number for 70000000000 then God could have said " Each day that the world was made in was equal to a sand bucket and each grain was a year, after half a bucket I made Birds and after a cupful of sand I seperated light from dark, which is quite a trick , cos what were they before eh? lighty-dark? Anyway, then after the bucket was nearly full I created man...and It was good"

But he diddnt. He said 7 Days. Islam says he diddnt have to rest and it was 5 (?) days and the jews had misheard this or deliberatly changed it.

So when did the Church /Clergy /immams start saying "A day is a billion squillion years". Was it at the time when carbon dating proved that Birds came 200 million years after "Beasts of the land".

Cos if so then it just so smacks of the prophets getting racked off with thousands of people queing up and asking questions like .
"Is My blue your blue? "
"I just gotta know! how long did this place take to be built? Ask him!"
"If I eat my own leg, do i still weight the same?"
"Whats with Spanials! Why are their legs so short?"

Click to expand...

I don't know where you got the idea of 7days for christians and jews and 5 days for Muslims. The earth was created in 6days according to all 3 faiths, with difference being that the people of the book says God rested on 7th day while Islam says God is Al-Mighty and doens't get tired nor needs rest.

And we don't need to say 1 day = xxx now and change our knowledge and belief becuase of what science has revealed. Islam is the truth where as science is nothing more than error and trials. Science is a guessing game where you make a guess (hypotesis) and then you prove your guess to be right or wrong and then that is a fact for you. But this fact is not absolute fact becuase science advances in time as does our knowledge and then we find out what we thought to be the fact and true is false now according to our new knowledge and discoveries.

A recent example is alcohol. At first doctors said wine is ok in small doses for pregnant women, just last week a new news article came out that said that the previous facts are false and that it's not ok and pregnant women shouldn't drink one bit.

Anyways, the point being that science is not absolute and what it true today may not be true tomorrow. What rock you examined today with our current methods may not be as old as it is by the advance science of tomorrow.

Anyways, here's some interesting readings for you.

Is a day with Allaah one thousand years or fifty thousand years?

haykh Muhammad al-Ameen al-Shanqeeti said in his book Daf’ Ayhaam al-Idtiraab ‘an Aayaat al-Kitaab (p. 158):

“The aayah (interpretation of the meaning) ‘…And, verily, a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you reckon’ [al-Hajj 22:47] indicates that the length of a day with Allaah is a thousand years. The same is indicated by the aayah (interpretation of the meaning) ‘He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth, then it (the affair) will go up to Him, in one Day, the space whereof is a thousand years of your reckoning.’ [al-Sajdah 32:5]. Another aayah indicates something different (interpretation of the meaning): ‘The angels and the Rooh [Jibreel] ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years’ [al-Ma’aarij 70:4].

There are two ways in which these aayaat may be reconciled:

The first was reported by Ibn Abi Haatim via Sammaak from ‘Ikrimah from Ibn ‘Abbaas: the day of a thousand years mentioned in Soorat al-Hajj is one of the six days in which Allaah created the heavens and the earth; the day of a thousand years mentioned in Soorat al-Sajdah is the length of time it takes for a matter to go up to Allaah; and the day of fifty thousand years is the Day of Resurrection.

The second (way of reconciling the aayaat) is that what is meant by all of them is the Day of Resurrection, and the difference in the time span depends on whether a person is a believer or a kaafir. This is indicated by the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Truly that Day will be a Hard Day, far from easy for the disbelievers.” [al-Muddaththir 74:9-10]. These two suggestions were mentioned by the author of al-Itqaan. And Allaah knows best.”

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

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Like woodrow mentioned, the time concept in the west is different then the east. The west its 24hrs no matter what. But also its a fact that days are longer in the summer and shorter in the winter (measured by day light of course). Even in the old days in the west, time was measured as it is in the east today. Summers are longer than winters. When the sun goes doesn, its night time and people than go to sleep.

So a day with Allah based on above readings is a 1000yrs. And to contradict you, Allah does tell us in the Quran how long that day is in human years

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]*{...verily a day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.}* (Al-Hajj 22:47) [/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]

And the 50,000yrs yeas will be the day of Resurrection. It will be a day streched out to the max and would equal to 50,000 years for us. Think of it as one loooong hot summer day.

Anyways, Here's some Islamic view on the following...


[/FONT]Were the heavens and the earth created in six days or eight?

Creation of the earth and universe



(1) The Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran

A) The Quran on Human Embryonic Development
B) The Quran on Mountains
C) The Quran on the Origin of the Universe
D) The Quran on the Cerebrum
E) The Quran on Seas and Rivers
F) The Quran on Deeps Seas and Internal Waves
G) The Quran on Clouds
H) Scientists’ Comments on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran (with RealPlayer Video)

Hi Barney:

The Bible defines the day during the creation; therefore the period of time defined as one day is contextual.

Genesis 1:31 - Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This definition is similar for the previous days. Therefore we can reasonably assume that the scriptural account is dealing with hours rather than millions of years.

We now have at least two choices. We can assume that God did create the world as recorded and interpret the evidence accordingly, or we can disbelieve the scriptural account and interpret the evidence accordingly. The evidence can be interpreted or misinterpreted either way.

The responsible response in secular schools would then be to simply present the evidence. If the schools chose to interpret the evidence, then they should present both interpretations without bias. Regrettably the secular schools are behaving very irresponsibly in this regard.

Grenville

Well thats one way of looking at it.
But if the Bible was to say something like "The moon is made of Spongecake", then schools should teach this:
"The Bible teaches that the moon is made of spongecake, some people have found crumbs on the floor, that have no other explaination, It is a probability that the moon is indeed a form of cake."

I would support this teaching...right up till 1969, when the Americans landed there and proved it had no culinary connections.

Then It's my beleif that then, schools should stop teaching the Cake theory.

Grenville said:

Therefore we can reasonably assume that the scriptural account is dealing with hours rather than millions of years.

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No you can't.

If god is all powerful he could have done it in seconds!

A day is defined as 24 hours. This is how long it takes for the earth to rotate on it’s axis.

Before the earth was made there was no earth and no rotation.

If there was no rotation there was no way to measure a day. And therefore no way to measure a second.

Ultimately the whole story is fiction.

Joe98 said:

No you can't.

If god is all powerful he could have done it in seconds!

A day is defined as 24 hours. This is how long it takes for the earth to rotate on it’s axis.

Before the earth was made there was no earth and no rotation.

If there was no rotation there was no way to measure a day. And therefore no way to measure a second.

Ultimately the whole story is fiction.

Click to expand...

If there was no rotation there was no way to measure a day. And therefore no way to measure a second.

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No way for a Human to measure a second as time by us is measured by the movement of one object in relation to another. In reality time is a measurement and not an object nor a force. There is no way we can comprehend the duration any events prior to the concept of time was developed.

Joe98 said:

If god is all powerful he could have done it in seconds!

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Perhaps your understanding of power is that of a young man who starts working out at the gym and can't wait to show off his new found strength?

Allah is not only all Powerful but He is also Wise, therefore you would expect that He did things the way He did not only because He has the Power to do so, but because He has the Wisdom.

Grenville; said:

Therefore we can reasonably assume that the scriptural account is dealing with hours rather than millions of years.

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You will note that Grenville is very adamant on this point.

Woodrow said:

There is no way we can comprehend the duration any events prior to the concept of time was developed.

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Then why do the various holy books state how long it took to create the earth?

The answer is: When people don’t understand something they make up a reason. God is an invention of man.

Joe98 said:

No you can't.

If god is all powerful he could have done it in seconds!

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Because God is All-Powerful, He wouldn't have to listen to your whims.

Joe98 said:

Then why do the various holy books state how long it took to create the earth?

.

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Joe. If you were a prophet , your getting asked 24/7 how big space is, what shape the world is, what is the crop harvest going to be like and why the sea is wobbely.
Eventually....even if your on a direct line to God him/het/itself,...you get a bit fed up and say ..7 DAYS OK? 7 FLAMING DAYS!..NOW GO!

Then they all scatter, until one guy comes back timidly and asks " So what did he make on tuesday?"

Joe98 said:

No you can't.

If god is all powerful he could have done it in seconds!

A day is defined as 24 hours. This is how long it takes for the earth to rotate on it’s axis.

Before the earth was made there was no earth and no rotation.

If there was no rotation there was no way to measure a day. And therefore no way to measure a second.

Ultimately the whole story is fiction.

Click to expand...

Oh great, are you suggesting that time is a concept that only exists on earth? I guess the laws of physics only exist here on earth, since most equations i come across involve a letter 't' maybe the 't' is supposed to stand for 'tubular'. Hey, maybe before earth was made there was no physics too! :giggling:

Do you honestly believe that a day on earth was exactly 24 hours long 4 billion years ago? Scientists estimate that the earth's rotation was roughly 6.5 hours per night/day cycle.

Additionally, I thought I read somewhere about time being a relative thing...but since my knowledge of the subject matter is rusty, i will refrain on making a comment on this particular issue.