Sikhism

[Hanif_Revert]

Yes, and it's the term used for reincarnation in Islam, so it does occur!

http://www.thewaytotruth.org/resurre...carnation.html

Refuted!!!

[Hanif_Revert]

So the mention if it in the Quran is not percieved to make it feasible? I see.....

Im persuming you ment 'of' not 'if' but ive already refuted your claim that it is in the Quran.

[Hanif_Revert]

So the mention if it in the Quran is not percieved to make it feasible? I see.....

I dont know if youve read the Quran or are just taking bits out of it but, i dont know howmany times it quotes that the dwellers of Heaven and Hell with live thei FOREVER. Here's one..

"But those who disbelieve our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc) - such are the dwellers of the fire. They shall abide therein forever. Holy Quran (2:39)

[Hanif_Revert]

I dont know if youve read the Quran or are just taking bits out of it but, i dont know howmany times it quotes that the dwellers of Heaven and Hell with live thei FOREVER. Here's one..

"But those who disbelieve our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc) - such are the dwellers of the fire. They shall abide therein forever. Holy Quran (2:39)

Was bored waiting so i found some more quotes showing the Quran believes in resurection, not reincarnation

"And when the Trumpet will be blown (i.e the second blowing) and behold from the graves they will come out and quickly to their Lord" Holy Quran - (36:51)

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Hanif_Revert]

Say (to them)L "Alah gives you life, then causes you to die, then He will assemble you on the Day of Resurection about which there is no doubt. But most of mankind know not." - Holy Quran (45:26)

[Hanif_Revert]

Your animosity is showing through your threads. Sarcasm is childish. Please try and remain civil.

[Hanif_Revert]

Yes, and it's the term used for reincarnation in Islam, so it does occur!

Its absurd to think that the religions are similar, or that our beliefs are that of yours. they are not. If you look at the two, Sikhism is almost the Anti-Islam.
Sikhs must not cut any hair - Muslims must shave theirs.
Sikhs cannot eat sacrifised meat - Muslims must.
Sikhs have music within their prayers - Islam forbids music.
Sikhs believe God is within - Islam believes God is above
Sikhs believe in reincarnation - Islam believes in Resurection
Sikhs dont believe in certain rituals -These rituals are the pillar of the faith of Islam
Islam believes Muhammed (pbuh) is the final messenger - Sikhi believes he isnt

[north_malaysian]

Sikhism is almost the Anti-Islam.

This word is too harsh..... you should replace it with "contradictory to Islam" not... "Anti Islam"... some people may misunderstand it...

[AvarAllahNoor]

Its absurd to think that the religions are similar, or that our beliefs are that of yours. they are not. If you look at the two, Sikhism is almost the Anti-Islam.
Sikhs must not cut any hair - Muslims must shave theirs.
Sikhs cannot eat sacrifised meat - Muslims must.
Sikhs have music within their prayers - Islam forbids music.
Sikhs believe God is within - Islam believes God is above
Sikhs believe in reincarnation - Islam believes in Resurection
Sikhs dont believe in certain rituals -These rituals are the pillar of the faith of Islam
Islam believes Muhammed (pbuh) is the final messenger - Sikhi believes he isnt

Explain that to the many muslims who create sites that claim Guru Nanak was a muslim. If he was, then why do they not praise him? (some do our of respect, unlike others) Fact is he never followed Islam or hinduism. Some muslims say Sikhs are the 'Military' section of Islam. I've not heard anything more ludicrous.

BTW - God is above and within . Even Jesus said that in his gospel!

All this has been covered before. :rollseyes

Baba Nanak, in one of his Janam Sakhis he says that he had it revealed to him by God that the religion of Islam is true. It was because of this that he went on pilgrimage to Makka, and adopted all the tenets of Islam. His sacred relics at Dera Baba Nanak bear the clearest testimony to his profession of the Islamic Kalima, "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet", and those at Guru Har Sahai in the Ferozepore District, include a copy of the Holy Quran. He also proclaimed that enmity to Islam was enmity to the light that comes from heaven.

This is false!

[AvarAllahNoor]

This word is too harsh..... you should replace it with "contradictory to Islam" not... "Anti Islam"... some people may misunderstand it...

Thankyou brother, you've followed my responses and you've not been disrespectful unlike others. - The key is to respect each other. :)

[AvarAllahNoor]

Let there be no compulsion in religion
To you be your beliefs and To me be mine [Al-Quran]

I quote this and like the other Sikhs i too, shall stay away from this thread as it's repetive and has nothing more to add.

[justahumane]

I dont know if youve read the Quran or are just taking bits out of it but, i dont know howmany times it quotes that the dwellers of Heaven and Hell with live thei FOREVER. Here's one..

"But those who disbelieve our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc) - such are the dwellers of the fire. They shall abide therein forever. Holy Quran (2:39)

I think that this and many other ayahs like this one are responsible of so many conversions to Islam. What about urs?

There are some propogators of Islam around me who would tell me to convert as soon as possible, coz no-one knows when death is gonna get hold over U. And if u die as a non-muslim than u are gonna live in hellfire forever:) . Further some of greatest scholers of Islam are too falsely propogating this message that to escape hellfire forever, convert to Islam soon. Its just disgusting, isnt it????

[Skillganon]

I think that this and many other ayahs like this one are responsible of so many conversions to Islam. What about urs?

There are some propogators of Islam around me who would tell me to convert as soon as possible, coz no-one knows when death is gonna get hold over U. And if u die as a non-muslim than u are gonna live in hellfire forever:) . Further some of greatest scholers of Islam are too falsely propogating this message that to escape hellfire forever, convert to Islam soon. Its just disgusting, isnt it????

Nope, their is plenty of incentive to follow this last path.
Anyway their is hell-fire for those who reject faith. It is Just a warning for what to come.

I rather don't think hell-fire is the main reason for converting, otherwise it should also be a good reason for christian not to convert to Islam.

[Hanif_Revert]

This word is too harsh..... you should replace it with "contradictory to Islam" not... "Anti Islam"... some people may misunderstand it...

I apologise to those who were afended by my comment.

Perhaps i worded it incorrectly. I did NOT mean that Sikhism is AGAINST Islam. I just meant to point out that Much of Sikhisms teachings are the opposite of those taught by Islam such as i have listed. I also found out that women in Sikhism are forbidden to wear veil's!
It's obvious to those who can see it, that the Sikh doctrine goes against the grain of the way of life in Islam.
If that is the case, as many have pointed out before me. How can it be the natural progression of the religion god has decreed?

Im sorry but nothing in this thread has answered this fundemental question and it is a shame that our Sikh friend has given up trying to answer this.

[Hanif_Revert]

I think that this and many other ayahs like this one are responsible of so many conversions to Islam. What about urs?

There are some propogators of Islam around me who would tell me to convert as soon as possible, coz no-one knows when death is gonna get hold over U. And if u die as a non-muslim than u are gonna live in hellfire forever:) . Further some of greatest scholers of Islam are too falsely propogating this message that to escape hellfire forever, convert to Islam soon. Its just disgusting, isnt it????

The message is not false. you may believe what you will but the end of days is a certainty. And you will be held accountable for how you have lived your life.

[Hanif_Revert]

Let there be no compulsion in religion
To you be your beliefs and To me be mine [Al-Quran]

I quote this and like the other Sikhs i too, shall stay away from this thread as it's repetive and has nothing more to add.

A shame you wont continue. But I understand that the issues at hand do not seem to have an answer.

Kind Regards.

May you find Happiness in whichever path you follow

:thankyou:

[north_malaysian]

There are some propogators of Islam around me who would tell me to convert as soon as possible, coz no-one knows when death is gonna get hold over U. And if u die as a non-muslim than u are gonna live in hellfire forever:) . Further some of greatest scholers of Islam are too falsely propogating this message that to escape hellfire forever, convert to Islam soon. Its just disgusting, isnt it????

Great majority of Muslims dont do this including me... We only explain Islam to those who are interested to know.... to convert or not .... it's not for us to force...

[north_malaysian]

Do Sikhs celebrate Diwali (or 'Deepavali' in Malaysia) ?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Do Sikhs celebrate Diwali (or 'Deepavali' in Malaysia) ?

Sikhs celebrate 'Bandi-Chhorh Divas' wich falls at the same time as Divali.

The Sikh celebration of the return of the sixth Nanak from detention in the Gwalior Fort coincides with Hindu festival of Diwali. This coincidence has resulted in similarity of celebration amongst Sikhs and Hindus.

The Sikhs celebrate this day as Bandi Chhorh Divas i.e., "the day of release of detainees", because the sixth Nanak had agreed to his release on the condition that the other fifty-two detainees would also be released. These other fifty-two detainees were the vassal kings who had done something to annoy the emperor.

The Sikhs on this day, which generally falls in october-November, hold a one-day celebrations in the Gurdwaras. So in the evening, illuminations are done with Deewé (earthen oil lamps) or candles and fireworks. The celebrations are held both in the Gurdwaras and in homes.

Guru Hargobind Sahib succeeded Guru Arjan Sahib in 1606, at the age of eleven years. After the martyrdom of Guru Arjan Sahib, the moment was crucial for the Sikhs. Now for the first time, the Sikhs began to think seriously to counter the high-handedness of the mighty and theist Muslim Empire. Now a change had taken place in the character of Sikh Nation on the force of circumstances. Dialectically speaking, it was the need of the hour. Now the Sikh nation adopts both spiritual and political ways simultaneously. This policy suited well to all the social and economic segments of the Sikhs.

Guru Hargobind Sahib wore two swords, one of Spiritual Power - Piri and the other of Military Power - Miri. Now the Sikh became "Saint-Soldier." Guru Sahib issued various letters advising the Sikhs to take part in the military training and marshal arts. A Chronicler states that Guru Sahib kept seven hundred Cavaliers and sixty artillerymen. There was a band of Pathan mercenaries and Painda Khan Pathan was made its chief Riding, hunting, wrestling and many others martial sports were introduced. And on the other hand the martial songs like 'Vars' were daily sung by the Dhadd-players in the court of Guru Sahib to inspire the Sikhs of heroic deeds. Abdul and Natha Mal were given the task in this respect. The Guru Sahib himself was healthy and strong in body and mind. He himself learnt the use of different weapons, besides riding wrestling and hunting.

Many people think the animosity between Guru Hargobind (Not to be confused with Guru Gobind Singh) and Jahnagir was ongoing. No, they were quite keen of each others company and Guru Hargobind went into Gwalior to pray for Janangir as he was suffering from an illness, at the request of Jahngir. The mind poisoning of Jahangir was a task undertaken by a hindu, who was petrified of the relationship that would be formed by the Guru and Emporor.


Sikhs and muslims have been friendly throughout history (although hatred between the two has been encouraged by a select few) just because of a few select battles does not make us enemies. As you can read Guru ji had recruited many Muslims in his army (Not coverted, as this was not his mission.

Plus the foundations of the most sacred Sikh site 'Darbar Sahib' or known as 'Golden Temple' (As Mecca is to muslims) was laid down my 'Sian Mian Mir' so explain this if you think Muslims and Sikhs arre bitter enemies

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

[north_malaysian]

No wonder.... the Sikhs also took longer leave on Diwali....

But this year it's public holiday from 21st October (Diwali) until 25th October
(2nd Day of Eid) ... 5 days holiday for all Malaysians....

My firm grants us holiday leave from 21st October until 29th October..... :)

[AvarAllahNoor]

No wonder.... the Sikhs also took longer leave on Diwali....

But this year it's public holiday from 21st October (Diwali) until 25th October
(2nd Day of Eid) ... 5 days holiday for all Malaysians....

My firm grants us holiday leave from 21st October until 29th October..... :)

We don't get a holiday for it here in the UK :cry:

[Hanif_Revert]

Sikhs and muslims have been friendly throughout history (although hatred between the two has been encouraged by a select few) just because of a few select battles does not make us enemies. As you can read Guru ji had recruited many Muslims in his army (Not coverted, as this was not his mission.

Plus the foundations of the most sacred Sikh site 'Darbar Sahib' or known as 'Golden Temple' (As Mecca is to muslims) was laid down my 'Sian Mian Mir' so explain this if you think Muslims and Sikhs arre bitter enemies

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

The hatred between the two stems from the conflicts they had at the times of the Guru's (as is reminded to all SIkh's by pictures and statues of the Mogul/Sikh wars in most Gurdwara's)
Also in India the battle over Kashmir has done little to help this issue as much of the Indian army is comprised of the Sikh's.

Ignorant people on both sides use these conflicts (and others to justify their hatred for each other). - Although many Muslim people do not know who the Sikh's are or what they believe in. If you ask most Muslim's who their enemy is, they will say "Shaytan (Satan) the cursed one is our enemy."
Im not sure if it is the same with the SIkh's though.

[Hanif_Revert]

The Sikhs celebrate this day as Bandi Chhorh Divas i.e., "the day of release of detainees", because the sixth Nanak had agreed to his release on the condition that the other fifty-two detainees would also be released. These other fifty-two detainees were the vassal kings who had done something to annoy the emperor.

Do you think it is coincidence that this 'ritual' - (Not empty) was on almost the exact day as Diwali, which is also celebrated with lanterns and candles.

I remember hearing that christmas was made to coincide with the pagan holidays so that it made assimilation of the two faith's easier.

Just a thought!

[Hanif_Revert]

Explain that to the many muslims who create sites that claim Guru Nanak was a muslim. If he was, then why do they not praise him? (some do our of respect, unlike others) Fact is he never followed Islam or hinduism. Some muslims say Sikhs are the 'Military' section of Islam. I've not heard anything more ludicrous.

BTW - God is above and within . Even Jesus said that in his gospel!

All this has been covered before. :rollseyes

Yeah they also said 'God had a son':rollseyes

Cant believe everything you read

[Hanif_Revert]

Why do Gurdwara's have pictures of their Guru's?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Why do Gurdwara's have pictures of their Guru's?

This goes back to the times after Guru Gobind Singh Ji. - Sikhs were a few and the Gurdwaras were taken over by 'Massands' (Brahmical Hindus) and they started creating images of Guru's and installing idols into Gurdwaras. Once the Sikhs were capable they demoished all idols and disoposed of all illustrations. - Just like you find images of 'Ali' the second in line (depending on which sect you adere to) you can find images of him and Mohammed.

It's against our religion to worship/prostrate before an effigy or image of anyone. - In many Gurdwaras they have removed pictures. But still a few Gurdwaras have them but we have to remember most of the people who think this way, originate from india, and like the saying goes. 'You can take the person out of....etc.

Gur Fateh

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yeah they also said 'God had a son':rollseyes

Cant believe everything you read

I said the Gospel of Jesus, not sure you're aware of the Goespel he wrote. The Catholic Church refuse to aknowledge it, wonder why, as it speaks the truth!

Jesus quotes ''The Kingdom of God is inside you and all around you'' Imagine if the church came to believe in this, it'll be the end of the chruch!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Do you think it is coincidence that this 'ritual' - (Not empty) was on almost the exact day as Diwali, which is also celebrated with lanterns and candles.

I remember hearing that christmas was made to coincide with the pagan holidays so that it made assimilation of the two faith's easier.

Just a thought!

When i was young i thought we celebrated Divali too because of Rama and Sita as the hindus do. (Elders knew nothing of Sikhi, as they do now)

Yes it falls more or less at the same time, but completely different to why we celebrate it.

[AvarAllahNoor]

The hatred between the two stems from the conflicts they had at the times of the Guru's (as is reminded to all SIkh's by pictures and statues of the Mogul/Sikh wars in most Gurdwara's)
Also in India the battle over Kashmir has done little to help this issue as much of the Indian army is comprised of the Sikh's.
.

Well i agree with the above statment. I wonder if we'll have statues to cemorate the massacre and desecration of the Darbar Sahib' back in 1984 by hindus? After all that too is now part of our history!

About the Army, don't be fooled by the mere adorning of a turban. It does not make one a Sikh. They recruit a few Sikhs, But not proper Sikhs. - They delibrately push these so called 'Sikhs' into the front so more hatred can be fuelled between the two. It's all part of the whole process, carried out by hindus - Hindus kill Proper Sikhs, Millions to this day.

[Hanif_Revert]

I said the Gospel of Jesus, not sure you're aware of the Goespel he wrote. The Catholic Church refuse to aknowledge it, wonder why, as it speaks the truth!

Jesus quotes ''The Kingdom of God is inside you and all around you'' Imagine if the church came to believe in this, it'll be the end of the chruch!

Im sure it says 'Kingdom' of God and not 'God himself.'

[Hanif_Revert]

Well i agree with the above statment. I wonder if we'll have statues to cemorate the massacre and desecration of the Darbar Sahib' back in 1984 by hindus? After all that too is now part of our history!

About the Army, don't be fooled by the mere adorning of a turban. It does not make one a Sikh. They recruit a few Sikhs, But not proper Sikhs. - They delibrately push these so called 'Sikhs' into the front so more hatred can be fuelled between the two. It's all part of the whole process, carried out by hindus - Hindus kill Proper Sikhs, Millions to this day.

It's true, their are many issues and percicutions that the SIkh's have and do still face. It's a shame that the hindu national party (BJP) got into power recently. Im sure they do little for Sikh interents.

[Hanif_Revert]

This goes back to the times after Guru Gobind Singh Ji. - Sikhs were a few and the Gurdwaras were taken over by 'Massands' (Brahmical Hindus) and they started creating images of Guru's and installing idols into Gurdwaras. Once the Sikhs were capable they demoished all idols and disoposed of all illustrations. - Just like you find images of 'Ali' the second in line (depending on which sect you adere to) you can find images of him and Mohammed.

It's against our religion to worship/prostrate before an effigy or image of anyone. - In many Gurdwaras they have removed pictures. But still a few Gurdwaras have them but we have to remember most of the people who think this way, originate from india, and like the saying goes. 'You can take the person out of....etc.

Gur Fateh

Ive never seen a picture of either Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) or Muhammed (saw))
Their have been films and documentaries on the prophet (pbuh) and even then they refuse to even have a actor portray him (saw). You must have heard about the uproar regarding the cartoon of the prophet caused.

Doesnt it annoy you though that the Sikh institutions cant even get it right when it comes to important issues like Pictures and Idols and having Gurdawa?

What hope is their for the rest then?

I find many Sikh's are very confused about their faith. (As im sure many muslims are about theirs (sects of Islam)

[justahumane]

Nope, their is plenty of incentive to follow this last path.
Anyway their is hell-fire for those who reject faith. It is Just a warning for what to come.

I rather don't think hell-fire is the main reason for converting, otherwise it should also be a good reason for christian not to convert to Islam.

Lets see whether ALLAH is more concerned about himself or his beloved creations. We have some undoubtedly pious muslims who didnt fail to give away their lives to become martyrs for so called cause of ALLAH, on the other hand we have a Mushrik lady like Mother Teresa who devoted her entire life in serving those who were down trodden.

Personally I will love to live in company of Mother rather than pious muslims, hereafter. May ALLAH grant me what I wish, Ameen.

[justahumane]

The message is not false. you may believe what you will but the end of days is a certainty. And you will be held accountable for how you have lived your life.

Ya brother, I agree with U, we will be held accountable how we lived ur life. Here I differ with Islam, coz Islam grants highest place in paradise to ppls who killed innocents in the name of ALLAH, but gifts hellfire to those non- muslims who devoted their entire life in service to humankind.

Lets see whose beliefs are true, urs or mine. Best of luck mate.

[Hanif_Revert]

Ya brother, I agree with U, we will be held accountable how we lived ur life. Here I differ with Islam, coz Islam grants highest place in paradise to ppls who killed innocents in the name of ALLAH, but gifts hellfire to those non- muslims who devoted their entire life in service to humankind.

Lets see whose beliefs are true, urs or mine. Best of luck mate.

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that Islam condems killing Innocent people.

We read in the Qur'an: ". . . Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except through justice and the law. He orders this so that you may acquire wisdom" (6:151) and, "Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause. If anyone is killed unjustly, We allow his heir (to seek justice) but do not allow him to exceed bounds when it comes to taking life, for he is helped (by the law)" (17:33).

According to the Qur'an, killing a person unjustly is the same as killing all of humanity, and saving a person is the same as saving all humanity. (See Holy Quran Surah 5:32.)

[Hanif_Revert]

Lets see whether ALLAH is more concerned about himself or his beloved creations. We have some undoubtedly pious muslims who didnt fail to give away their lives to become martyrs for so called cause of ALLAH, on the other hand we have a Mushrik lady like Mother Teresa who devoted her entire life in serving those who were down trodden.

Personally I will love to live in company of Mother rather than pious muslims, hereafter. May ALLAH grant me what I wish, Ameen.

Are you talking about your mother or mother Teresa?

If its your mother then the following Hadith, saying of the prophet will answer your question

Abu Huraira reported that a person came to Allah, 's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Who among the people is most deserving of a fine treatment from my hand? He said: Your mother. He again said: Then who (is the next one)? He said: Again it is your mother (who deserves the best treatment from you). He said: Then who (is the next one)? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Again, it is your mother. He (again) said: Then who? Thereupon he said: Then it is your father. In the hadith transmitted on the authority of Qutalba, there is no mention of the word" the people".

[Hanif_Revert]

Lets see whether ALLAH is more concerned about himself or his beloved creations. We have some undoubtedly pious muslims who didnt fail to give away their lives to become martyrs for so called cause of ALLAH, on the other hand we have a Mushrik lady like Mother Teresa who devoted her entire life in serving those who were down trodden.

Personally I will love to live in company of Mother rather than pious muslims, hereafter. May ALLAH grant me what I wish, Ameen.

Regarding Mother Teresa, only Allah knows what faith she died upon. She may have taken her shahada (declaration) before she died.

Also we do not know what reason a person sincerly does a task for.
Do they do it for themselves? i.e forrecognition of acheivement, or to be remembered in this world?

Or do they do it sincerley for Allah?

Sincerity is an important aspect of faith.

If you are sincerley looking for the truth, you shall find it.

[Hanif_Revert]

Ya brother, I agree with U, we will be held accountable how we lived ur life. Here I differ with Islam, coz Islam grants highest place in paradise to ppls who killed innocents in the name of ALLAH, but gifts hellfire to those non- muslims who devoted their entire life in service to humankind.

Lets see whose beliefs are true, urs or mine. Best of luck mate.

We are not here to do service for humans, we are here to worship God (Allah) This may include doing service (charity) to people.

So do you believe in reincarnation then?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Ive never seen a picture of either Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) or Muhammed (saw))
Their have been films and documentaries on the prophet (pbuh) and even then they refuse to even have a actor portray him (saw). You must have heard about the uproar regarding the cartoon of the prophet caused.

Doesnt it annoy you though that the Sikh institutions cant even get it right when it comes to important issues like Pictures and Idols and having Gurdawa?

What hope is their for the rest then?

I find many Sikh's are very confused about their faith. (As im sure many muslims are about theirs (sects of Islam)

Indeed. But the new generation who have no connection with hinduism (beacause we reside here, and the USA) have taken it upon themselves to distance Sikhs from such practices. - It's happening though.

As for Ali, if you google you can find pictures, and i was told by a shia (i think) that they allow pictures of him, unlike others. It's not the correct practice of all muslims, i know that.

BTW - We don't have idols of Guru's. And no portrayal of any Guru's by actors is premitted.

.

[AvarAllahNoor]

It's true, their are many issues and percicutions that the SIkh's have and do still face. It's a shame that the hindu national party (BJP) got into power recently. Im sure they do little for Sikh interents.

Manmohan 'Singh' PM of india is not a Sikh, if he was he'd have at least arranged arrests of people who particpated in killing of Sikhs today. (Some say we live in the past) but imagine, 1 Million Baptised Sikhs killed just randomly. In hte Punjab, drugs are liquior are avaible much more cheaper than anywhere else in india, why? So they can reduce the amount of baptised Sikhs. But a revival is ahead, and htey fear this more than ever!

[Hanif_Revert]

Manmohan 'Singh' PM of india is not a Sikh, if he was he'd have at least arranged arrests of people who particpated in killing of Sikhs today. (Some say we live in the past) but imagine, 1 Million Baptised Sikhs killed just randomly. In hte Punjab, drugs are liquior are avaible much more cheaper than anywhere else in india, why? So they can reduce the amount of baptised Sikhs. But a revival is ahead, and htey fear this more than ever!

It is sickening to see how religion can become so twisted and misinterpretted.

Such as Bhangra at weddings with alcohol.

Darhoo (Alchohol) is fermented in many Punjabi households. - And they call it tradition!!
Its sad that the real traditions are never kept. the deveil has his way of infiltrating all paths of good.

[Hanif_Revert]

Their is a huge Sikh population where I live in London. I have been to countless Sikh weddings. the only one where they didnt dance and drink was in Punjab i must say.

[Hanif_Revert]

Indeed. But the new generation who have no connection with hinduism (beacause we reside here, and the USA) have taken it upon themselves to distance Sikhs from such practices. - It's happening though.

As for Ali, if you google you can find pictures, and i was told by a shia (i think) that they allow pictures of him, unlike others. It's not the correct practice of all muslims, i know that.

BTW - We don't have idols of Guru's. And no portrayal of any Guru's by actors is premitted.

.

I dont believe Shia's are on the correct path personally but im sure they do all kinds of things that Salafi Muslims do not.

Sorry, by Idols i meant things that are idolised such as pictures of the Guru's.

[Azhar786]

[U]Alcohol and ethnic and religious diversity[/U

White pupils are the most likely of all ethnic groups in the UK to drink alcohol. Nineteen per cent of white 15- to 16-year-olds drink at least once a week compared to eight percent of black pupils and three percent of Asians. 1

However, drinking among the Asian population has recently risen, particularly among the Hindu community. 2

The use of alcohol is prohibited or disapproved of in Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Buddhism and many Christian denominations, for example the Salvation Army and Quaker Society. In reality, some members of these faiths do use alcohol.

[Hanif_Revert]

Another misinterpretation many people (including Sikh's themselves) have is when the Guru's are described as being 'One with God' or having 'the Divine Spirit' (Harjot) they assume this means that they were 'God'. Hence some worship them (Mutha Tek) bow to their image.

This is forbidden in Sikhi.

But they do bow to the Holy book (Guru Granth Sahib) as the Harjot passed into it after Guru Gobind Singh's death.

Correct me if im wrong:)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Ya brother, I agree with U, we will be held accountable how we lived ur life. Here I differ with Islam, coz Islam grants highest place in paradise to ppls who killed innocents in the name of ALLAH, but gifts hellfire to those non- muslims who devoted their entire life in service to humankind.

Lets see whose beliefs are true, urs or mine. Best of luck mate.

I officially declare u lost :rollseyes

[Hanif_Revert]

I officially declare u lost :rollseyes

It's sad that people have such a misunderstanding of Islam.

They need education on what we are actually here to do in this life.

I agree with you.

:cry:

[Mohsin]

Lets see whether ALLAH is more concerned about himself or his beloved creations. We have some undoubtedly pious muslims who didnt fail to give away their lives to become martyrs for so called cause of ALLAH, on the other hand we have a Mushrik lady like Mother Teresa who devoted her entire life in serving those who were down trodden.

Personally I will love to live in company of Mother rather than pious muslims, hereafter. May ALLAH grant me what I wish, Ameen.

Mother teresa and the like has been discussed before Mother Teresa- Heaven or Hell?

I read somewhere that mother teresa would give money to poor and at the same time preach them christianity, almost blackmailing them. Dont know if its true. Have also heard that she would put money back into the churches in sri lanka or something. We dont knw her true intentions, and we dont know whether she died in state of islam or not, so we dont know if she is going to heaven or hell. plz read thread for more info

[Mohsin]

Ya brother, I agree with U, we will be held accountable how we lived ur life. Here I differ with Islam, coz Islam grants highest place in paradise to ppls who killed innocents in the name of ALLAH, but gifts hellfire to those non- muslims who devoted their entire life in service to humankind.

Lets see whose beliefs are true, urs or mine. Best of luck mate.

Where does islam say that muslims who kill innocent ppl will be in heaven, let alone the highest level???

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

i laff at that post, cuz he totally switched it round...
good job "mate."

[AvarAllahNoor]

It is sickening to see how religion can become so twisted and misinterpretted.

Such as Bhangra at weddings with alcohol.

Darhoo (Alchohol) is fermented in many Punjabi households. - And they call it tradition!!
Its sad that the real traditions are never kept. the deveil has his way of infiltrating all paths of good.

This once again results down to 'culture'. People stick to the panjabi culture. And try to merge it with Sikhi, as Gursikhs know drinking/dancing is not permitted in Sikhi. - More education is required here!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Another misinterpretation many people (including Sikh's themselves) have is when the Guru's are described as being 'One with God' or having 'the Divine Spirit' (Harjot) they assume this means that they were 'God'. Hence some worship them (Mutha Tek) bow to their image.

This is forbidden in Sikhi.

But they do bow to the Holy book (Guru Granth Sahib) as the Harjot passed into it after Guru Gobind Singh's death.

Correct me if im wrong:)

The first point you make is correct. Nowhere is Gurbani can you find a quote which would lead one to claim any of the Guru's were God - Neither did they ever claim to be so. They said they were servants of God, nothing more. - Guru Gobind Singh Ji, even declared anyone who referred to him as God, would perish in the couldrons (sp) of hell. (You'd think that alone would work as a deterrent)

But you'll find the illiterates still think images are of Guru's which is ridiculous

The Sikhs do bow to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but here is why.....

Guru Granth Sahib does not narrate the life story of Guru Nanak, but each and every word is dedicated to the Glory of the Almighty God only. It is not a reproduction of earlier religions, but the Divine Word (Gurbani) came to the Gurus direct from God. Guru Nanak stated that it was not his philosophy, it was not his understanding and it was not his thinking, but the Word was coming to him direct from God and he was simply delivering His message to the world. As he confirms:

'O Lalo, as comes the Divine Word from Lord to me, So do I narrate it.' (Tilang Mohalla 1, p-722) 'I have said what Thou commandeth me to say.' (Wadhans Mohalla 1,p-566)
This was repeatedly confirmed and emphasized by all the Gurus in their Bani such as:

'From God springs ambrosial Gurbani The exalted Guru narrates and preaches the same to world.' (Majh Mohalla 3, p-125) 'This Word comes from Him, Who hath created the World.' (Mohalla 4, p-306) 'This Word that hath come from God, It dispelleth all woes and worries.' (Sorath Mohalla 5, p-628) 'I speak but the Will of the Lord, For, the Lord's devotee narrateth the Word of the Lord.'(Sorath Mohalla 5, p-629) 'Whatever the Lord hath instructed me, Hear, O my brother.' (Tilang Mohalla 9, p-727)


The tenth Master, Guru Gobind Singh established the same truth that it was God's Word that was being revealed through the Gurus:

'Whatever the Lord sayeth to me I say the same to the world.' (Guru Gobind Singh)
The Janamsakhi (biography) reveals that Guru Nanak many times said to his minstrel Mardana, "Mardana, start playing the rebec, Gurbani (Divine Word) is coming." And the Divine Word was then recorded. That Divine Word is GURBANI- Guru Granth Sahib.

The bowing is a form of respect to the divine word. Just like a Muslim would prostrate towards the Kaaba in Mecca at the time of prayer(point of focus).

Although the worship of God alone is done, and some silly people take it to the point of putting Guru Granth Sahib to 'Sleep' lol that's a farce too. - Luckily only a few people do that, due to the lack of knowledge on Sikhi.


Here is a little about it by someone who's not a Sikh....

Max Arthur Macauliffe, an English writer, delivered a speech in Punjabi language at Akal Bunga, Amritsar in 1899, the translation of which is:

"There is another point to the merit of the Sikh religion that the founders of other religions in this world never wrote even one line with their own hands. You might have heard that there was a very famous Greek philosopher called Pythagoras who had many followers, but he never left behind anything written by him from which we could have known about the principles of his sect. After him came the second Greek philosopher named Socrates who was born in 500 B.C. He became a very famous religious leader who claimed that he was receiving Divine instructions from God within himself, which persuaded him to do good and prohibited from doing any evil deeds. But he too never left anything behind written by him which could have shed light on his philosophy and its principles. Whatever we know about him, has only come through the writings of his follower, Plato. Besides there came Mahatma Buddh in India and he never wrote anything with his hands. After that came Christ who did not write anything himself. His teachings are only known through Bible. However the Sikh Gurus acted quite opposite to all these religious leaders that they themselves dictated their message of Truth and compiled Guru Granth Sahib. In that respect the Sikh religion is far ahead than others." (Translation Sri Guru Granth Sahib- pothi 1,p-gaga, by Bhai Vir Singh)

[AvarAllahNoor]

Ya brother, I agree with U, we will be held accountable how we lived ur life. Here I differ with Islam, coz Islam grants highest place in paradise to ppls who killed innocents in the name of ALLAH, but gifts hellfire to those non- muslims who devoted their entire life in service to humankind.

Lets see whose beliefs are true, urs or mine. Best of luck mate.

I don't believe that's true brother. I have knowledge of the Quran, but i think people use certain parts of a verse to benefit themselves.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Mother teresa and the like has been discussed before Mother Teresa- Heaven or Hell?

I read somewhere that mother teresa would give money to poor and at the same time preach them christianity, almost blackmailing them. Dont know if its true. Have also heard that she would put money back into the churches in sri lanka or something. We dont knw her true intentions, and we dont know whether she died in state of islam or not, so we dont know if she is going to heaven or hell. plz read thread for more info

I know she was a missionary Christian, but she did a very good service to humanity. That alone would speak voulumes about her goodness. To me it isn't a big issue if she was a Hindu/Jew/Muslim. - You'll find many people wear the garbs of religious people but are not worth mentioning in the same breath as Mother Teresa because they do not live up to the religion they follow (Not talking about any religion in-particular btw)

[Hanif_Revert]

I know she was a missionary Christian, but she did a very good service to humanity. That alone would speak voulumes about her goodness. To me it isn't a big issue if she was a Hindu/Jew/Muslim. - You'll find many people wear the garbs of religious people but are not worth mentioning in the same breath as Mother Teresa because they do not live up to the religion they follow (Not talking about any religion in-particular btw)

Only Allah knows someones piety or rightousness. It is not up to us to say otherwise. For only Allah knows truely the what is in one's heart and truely knows the sincerity of one's actions.

[Hanif_Revert]

Shall we talk about what happens after death?

Can you explain to us how your god descide's what creature or plant you will come back as?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Shall we talk about what happens after death?

Can you explain to us how your god descide's what creature or plant you will come back as?

What's all this 'Your God' business??

Only God know's what the process is, not the mortal!

The Sikhs believe that the Soul has to transmigrate from one body to another as part of an evolution process of the Soul. This evolution of the Soul will eventually results in a union with God upon the proper purification of the spirit. If one does not perform righteous deeds, ones soul will continue to cycle in reincarnation forever. A being who has performed good deeds and actions in their lives is transmigrated to a better and higher life form in the next life until the soul of the being becomes Godlike. From a human life form, if one performs the proper functions of a Gurmukh, the person can achieve salvation with God. One must cleanse the soul by reciting Naam, by remembrance of Waheguru and by following the path of Gurmat.

SGGS Page 306 Full Shabad
Those who meditate on You, O True Lord - they are very rare.

Those who worship and adore the One Lord in their conscious minds
- through their generosity, countless millions are fed.
All meditate on You, but they alone are accepted, who are pleasing to their Lord and Master.
Those who eat and dress without serving the True Lord die; after death,
those wretched lepers are consigned to reincarnation.
In His Sublime Presence, they talk sweetly, but behind His back, they exude poison from their mouths.
The evil-minded are consigned to separation from the Lord. 11

[justahumane]

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that Islam condems killing Innocent people.

We read in the Qur'an: ". . . Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except through justice and the law. He orders this so that you may acquire wisdom" (6:151) and, "Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause. If anyone is killed unjustly, We allow his heir (to seek justice) but do not allow him to exceed bounds when it comes to taking life, for he is helped (by the law)" (17:33).

According to the Qur'an, killing a person unjustly is the same as killing all of humanity, and saving a person is the same as saving all humanity. (See Holy Quran Surah 5:32.)

Brother plz clear ur misunderstanding, I never say that holy quran or Islam allows killing of innocents. Period. I might have used wrong words in my posts but they are definetely a gramatical or language mistake.

What I stress upon that holy quran asks ppls to be killed in certain circusmtances. This is a fact which cant be denied. Now my point is that it becomes an individual's personal choice to decide who is worthy of killing or who is not. Here starts all the chaos Islam is facing right now.

To eleborate further: If an Israili soldier kills a Palestinian than the world calls them criminals and terrorists, and rightly so. But at the same time when a Palestinian exploeds himself in a busy marketplace or a resturant taking away some innocent's life.......the Islamic world calls them martyr. It happens.

If some fidayeen kills some innocent Indian armyman, he is considered a martyr or holy jihadi if remains alive. While when some Indian armyman kills some innocent kashmiri than all hell break loose. and rightly so. But why muslim killers are looked upon as pious jihadis is still a question for me which begs for a suitable answer.

I remember someone asking Dr. Zakir Naik. about the suicide bombings Palestinians are carrying on Israilis.........Dr. Zakir Naik answered that its not against Islam coz the martyr is killing an Israili soldier or ex soldier which is allowed in Islam.

So brother, although I view holy quran as a most noble and the best book ever, I find it hard to believe that its book from ALLAH coz it has so many flaws in it, while considering that its law for humankind till quayamah.

Thanks

[justahumane]

Where does islam say that muslims who kill innocent ppl will be in heaven, let alone the highest level???

Sorry brother, my mistake, I used the word innocent wrongly. It was just choice of wrong word, nothing intended. I wanted to say that Islam allows killers of ppls place in paradise. Who is going to judge whether the person killed was worthy of killling or not?

Again sorry for my mistake, I m gonna edit my post now.

[justahumane]

Regarding Mother Teresa, only Allah knows what faith she died upon. She may have taken her shahada (declaration) before she died.

Also we do not know what reason a person sincerly does a task for.
Do they do it for themselves? i.e forrecognition of acheivement, or to be remembered in this world?

Or do they do it sincerley for Allah?

Sincerity is an important aspect of faith.

If you are sincerley looking for the truth, you shall find it.

Brother u are right, but we are free to speculate about ppls in which faith they died. The world knows/speculates, that Mother Teresa died as a mushrik. There can be no second thought about it. So she is definetely burning in hell with worst of ppls. According to Islamic POV. Sad Indeed.

Brother I honestly believe that she did all the service to humankind for her love towads ALLAH. I myself once heard her saying, "If someone claims that he or she loves GOD and he doesnt loves GOD's creations, than he/she is definetely a liar and a hypocrite" The bottomline of her statement is if U love ALLAH, than U must love his beloved creations too. I m yet to see a great soul like her or someone who has done such a great service to humankind in any other religion.

And about the ppls who sit at home and criticize her for no reason, I will say that there is no great personality who could escape criticism. Remember the hostility the holy prophet faced in almost his entire life, and still ppls out to malign his Image. But can they? its just like spitting towards the sky, we can well judge the result.

thanks.

[justahumane]

We are not here to do service for humans, we are here to worship God (Allah) This may include doing service (charity) to people.

So do you believe in reincarnation then?

Brother, here I differ with Islamic belief inspite of having rock strong faith in one ALLAH. I believe that ALLAH doesnt like sychophancy, and judge our faith by how good we have been in entire life towards humankind or how much service we did towards his beloved creations. And permit me to say that Islamic concept of charity as just a riutal hasnt achieved anything, coz muslims are still amongst the poorest and deprived ppls in this world. This all inspite of muslims paying chrity/zakat regularly.

No I dont believe in reincarnation. Not the least.

Thanks

[AvarAllahNoor]

Brother, here I differ with Islamic belief inspite of having rock strong faith in one ALLAH. I believe that ALLAH doesnt like sychophancy, and judge our faith by how good we have been in entire life towards humankind or how much service we did towards his beloved creations. And permit me to say that Islamic concept of charity as just a riutal hasnt achieved anything, coz muslims are still amongst the poorest and deprived ppls in this world. This all inspite of muslims paying chrity/zakat regularly.

No I dont believe in reincarnation. Not the least.

Thanks

I thought hindus did?

[Hanif_Revert]

Brother plz clear ur misunderstanding, I never say that holy quran or Islam allows killing of innocents. Period. I might have used wrong words in my posts but they are definetely a gramatical or language mistake.

What I stress upon that holy quran asks ppls to be killed in certain circusmtances. This is a fact which cant be denied. Now my point is that it becomes an individual's personal choice to decide who is worthy of killing or who is not. Here starts all the chaos Islam is facing right now.

To eleborate further: If an Israili soldier kills a Palestinian than the world calls them criminals and terrorists, and rightly so. But at the same time when a Palestinian exploeds himself in a busy marketplace or a resturant taking away some innocent's life.......the Islamic world calls them martyr. It happens.

If some fidayeen kills some innocent Indian armyman, he is considered a martyr or holy jihadi if remains alive. While when some Indian armyman kills some innocent kashmiri than all hell break loose. and rightly so. But why muslim killers are looked upon as pious jihadis is still a question for me which begs for a suitable answer.

I remember someone asking Dr. Zakir Naik. about the suicide bombings Palestinians are carrying on Israilis.........Dr. Zakir Naik answered that its not against Islam coz the martyr is killing an Israili soldier or ex soldier which is allowed in Islam.

So brother, although I view holy quran as a most noble and the best book ever, I find it hard to believe that its book from ALLAH coz it has so many flaws in it, while considering that its law for humankind till quayamah.

Thanks

It's Ok, i realise that sometimes word's can come out wrong.

I would like to draw your attention to a misconception you have though.

It is true that many people interpret the Quran in different way's and some even twist its meaning for their own idea's (Killing inocents on busses, planes etc./ is forbidden but someone is duped into believing its OK)

However, there is general consensus amongst the scholars that there is no Jihad currently in this world. You can check this out yourself from posts on this forum or look online. If there was, dont you think the whole Muslim world would be rushing to fight in Palestine?

You have to ask yourself, what are they fighting for?
Is it for God?
Or is it for land?

YOu must realise that these people fight because they are being persecuted from their land and homes NOT their faith. Which is when it becomes nesseiairy to fight for freedom.

I hope this clears up your concerns
:)

[Hanif_Revert]

What's all this 'Your God' business??

You may believe that your god is our God (Allah), but we do not believe Our God (Allah) is your god

[justahumane]

I officially declare u lost :rollseyes

Oh thanks Sis, I never know that we have someone with such divine authority to declare things like that. good to have U sister. may ALLAH bless U.

Thanks

[Hanif_Revert]

SGGS Page 306 Full Shabad
Those who meditate on You, O True Lord - they are very rare.

SO if people do rightous deeds all their life, but arent told to meditate on gods name, Do they start again?

[justahumane]

Mother teresa and the like has been discussed before Mother Teresa- Heaven or Hell?

I read somewhere that mother teresa would give money to poor and at the same time preach them christianity, almost blackmailing them. Dont know if its true. Have also heard that she would put money back into the churches in sri lanka or something. We dont knw her true intentions, and we dont know whether she died in state of islam or not, so we dont know if she is going to heaven or hell. plz read thread for more info

Thanks brother for providing the link, I will check it out now.

Brother as I have already said that all great ppls have gone through criticism, its nothing new. I assure U that she did nothing like what some ppls blames her. She did all the service with sole intention to serve the down trodden. She might had preached her faith to ppls which is not wrong at all, she was an Indian and Indian laws allows anyone to preach or propogate his or her faith. So plz dont get confused. She was among the best of human beings without any doubts, the world praise and respect her for her deeds.

Thanks

[Hanif_Revert]

This evolution of the Soul will eventually results in a union with God upon the proper purification of the spirit. If one does not perform righteous deeds, ones soul will continue to cycle in reincarnation forever. A being who has performed good deeds and actions in their lives is transmigrated to a better and higher life form in the next life until the soul of the being becomes Godlike.

Aoothu Billah!!!!
(I seek refuge)

This is where i (personally) have a problem. You believe that we can actually become like Allah? The Lord and Creater of All?

You think He took parts of himself and let them try and 'somehow' get back to him through good deeds and rememberence?

A'Stagfir Allah!!

This is where Sikhism and Islam totally differ, as we call this Shirk (ascribing partners with Allah)

Dont come back at me with the whole 'If a bottle falls into the 'one' sea is the sea not within and all around the bottle' because that for me is useless.

[justahumane]

I don't believe that's true brother. I have knowledge of the Quran, but i think people use certain parts of a verse to benefit themselves.

Agreed brother, its the most misinterpretated and misunderstood book in the world today.

[Hanif_Revert]

Thanks brother for providing the link, I will check it out now.

I assure U that she did nothing like what some ppls blames her. She did all the service with sole intention to serve the down trodden.
Thanks

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT WAS IN HER HEART?

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT HER INTENTION WAS?

ONLY ALLAH HAS THIS FORSIGHT.

AND TO HIM (SWT) YOU WILL RETURN.

[Hanif_Revert]

Agreed brother, its the most misinterpretated and misunderstood book in the world today.

I agree with this statement haowever, there are other misinterpreted books out there also.

Particularly one's written in a language that isnt even used anymore (Vedas)

And one that actually created it's own language (GGS)

[Hanif_Revert]

From a human life form, if one performs the proper functions of a Gurmukh, the person can achieve salvation with God. One must cleanse the soul by reciting Naam, by remembrance of Waheguru and by following the path of Gurmat.

So one day in the future, all of mankind will be Sikh?

[justahumane]

I thought hindus did?

Brother, its a misconception about hinduism. Yes although many hindus believe in reincarnation but not all, still its a fact that hinduism is not a religion itself. U cant find word hindu in any of Vedas, Gita, Ramayan, its enough proof that hindu is not a religion. Religion is Sanatan Dharma. or the ancient religion.

An atheist is a hindu, a grave worshipper is a hindu, arya samajis( ppls who dont worship idols) are hindus, and ofcourse Sanatan Dharmis are hindus too :) and so on and so forth. The list could be too long. ;D

And last though not least, I m a hindu too, while I believe in one GOD/ALLAH/BHAGVAN..........thats all, no prophet or messenger, no divine book. Humanity is my relgion which is only true religion of ALLAH, coz HE has born us as a human only, its later we were given our religious identities by our parents or further later when we choose a religion for ourselves.

[justahumane]

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT WAS IN HER HEART?

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT HER INTENTION WAS?

ONLY ALLAH HAS THIS FORSIGHT.

AND TO HIM (SWT) YOU WILL RETURN.

I ALREADY SAID BROTHER THAT WE ARE FREE TO SPECULATE, AS U GUYS ARE FREE TO CALL US KUFFAR AND PREDICT OUR DESTINY. I HOPE THIS MAKES UNDERSTAND. AGREED WITH UR LAST STATEMENT.

THANKS

[justahumane]

I agree with this statement haowever, there are other misinterpreted books out there also.

Particularly one's written in a language that isnt even used anymore (Vedas)

And one that actually created it's own language (GGS)

Brother how many incidents u can provide about the misinterpretation of vedas? how many hindu religious leaders u can provide quoting some verse/hymes from vedas and exorting someone to kill in the name of BHAGVAN? how many hindu terrorists u can show to me who know about even few hymes of vedas? If u can, than plz come ahead, if u cant then how can u brand vedas as a misinterpretated book? Ya it can be termed as hard-to-understand book for sure.

Thanks

[Hanif_Revert]

I thought hindus did?

No offence but it seems that this guy follows his own rules!!

Some of the richest countries in the world are Muslim countries.

But i agree there is huge corruption with even them.

We believe that the rich have a bigger test then the poor, because Allah will hold you accountable on how you distributed this wealth.

And as always.....

Allah knows best.

[Hanif_Revert]

I ALREADY SAID BROTHER THAT WE ARE FREE TO SPECULATE, AS U GUYS ARE FREE TO CALL US KUFFAR AND PREDICT OUR DESTINY. I HOPE THIS MAKES UNDERSTAND. AGREED WITH UR LAST STATEMENT.

THANKS

Again it is not not up to us to make these judgements or 'Speculations' as you call them.

It is a sin to call someone a Kafir when you know not what belief they are upon.

[Hanif_Revert]

Brother how many incidents u can provide about the misinterpretation of vedas? how many hindu religious leaders u can provide quoting some verse/hymes from vedas and exorting someone to kill in the name of BHAGVAN? how many hindu terrorists u can show to me who know about even few hymes of vedas? If u can, than plz come ahead, if u cant then how can u brand vedas as a misinterpretated book? Ya it can be termed as hard-to-understand book for sure.

Thanks

You are sitting here telling me that the book has no claim to reincarnation!!!!
Yet most Huindu's are upon this!!! and idol worshipping on top of that.

I agree that the Vedas originally calls to worship of one god and the Krishna's, etc. were all holy people, but that is another story.

We have already touched on the attrocoties that some Hindu's have done, but your right, its not in your your nature to fight or kill right?

[justahumane]

No offence but it seems that this guy follows his own rules!!

Some of the richest countries in the world are Muslim countries.

But i agree there is huge corruption with even them.

We believe that the rich have a bigger test then the poor, because Allah will hold you accountable on how you distributed this wealth.

And as always.....

Allah knows best.

No question of any offence brother, U can say anything.

I think that U are talking about the charity/zakat issue. Plz eleborate further whats ur point.

ALLAH knows best, till now its ur only comment I m able to be agree with U.

thanks

[Hanif_Revert]

how many hindu terrorists u can show to me who know about even few hymes of vedas? If u can, than plz come ahead, if u cant then how can u brand vedas as a misinterpretated book? Ya it can be termed as hard-to-understand book for sure.

Thanks

Look people in your religion creates temples for rats and the sun. Need I say anymore?

How misunderstood do you want to get?

http://www.freewebs.com/thomas/Rats-1.htm

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...mple-BR-1.html

[justahumane]

You are sitting here telling me that the book has no claim to reincarnation!!!!
Yet most Huindu's are upon this!!! and idol worshipping on top of that.

I agree that the Vedas originally calls to worship of one god and the Krishna's, etc. were all holy people, but that is another story.

We have already touched on the attrocoties that some Hindu's have done, but your right, its not in your your nature to fight or kill right?

Brother, vedas are not divine book nor it claims to be divine. Vedas were written by human beings who thought themselves to be patrons of religion.

U are living in darkness of ignorence if u think that hindu is a religion, plz come out of it.

Its human nature to fight and kill coz shaitan is not a seperate entity as Islam suggests, shaitan is very much inside us. The only difference is that the book u are quoting doesnt asks anyone to kill in the name of BHAGVAN. Thus it gives nobody a chance to kill someone and declare that I killed coz BHAGVAN wanted me to kill according to the book. Plz stop thinking that muslims have sole right over terrorism, anyone can be terrorists as some hindus are too.

[Hanif_Revert]

No question of any offence brother, U can say anything.

I think that U are talking about the charity/zakat issue. Plz eleborate further whats ur point.

ALLAH knows best, till now its ur only comment I m able to be agree with U.

thanks

There will always be poor on this earth, unless every single person on the planet gave 2-4% of their wealth away, and it could be distributed evenly.

No country has the ability to give away this amount and completley abolish poverty because the figures wouldnt work on such a small scale. (Especially when the majority of rich people are in the west.)

I think if you want to debate Islam and Hinduism we should open another thread because this one is large enough with just the topic of Sikhism!!

Open one and i will join you there insha Allah.

[Hanif_Revert]

Brother, vedas are not divine book nor it claims to be divine. Vedas were written by human beings who thought themselves to be patrons of religion.

U are living in darkness of ignorence if u think that hindu is a religion, plz come out of it.

Its human nature to fight and kill coz shaitan is not a seperate entity as Islam suggests, shaitan is very much inside us. The only difference is that the book u are quoting doesnt asks anyone to kill in the name of BHAGVAN. Thus it gives nobody a chance to kill someone and declare that I killed coz BHAGVAN wanted me to kill according to the book. Plz stop thinking that muslims have sole right over terrorism, anyone can be terrorists as some hindus are too.

Well i have some hindu friends who would be pretty worried to know their 'way of life' is not a religion.

Open another thread matey and insha Allah i will join you there

[justahumane]

Look people in your religion creates temples for rats and the sun. Need I say anymore?

How misunderstood do you want to get?

http://www.freewebs.com/thomas/Rats-1.htm

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...mple-BR-1.html

Brother I request u with folded hands that plz come out of ur ignorance and stop calling hindu a religion, coz its not. And what u mean by ppls of my religion created temples for rats and the sun? do U subscribe to the school fo thought of those ppls who says that U are a muslim therefore U are a terrorist? A word for wise is enough, so plz stop showing me what silly things ppls of my religion are doing and instead concentrate what ppls of ur religion are doing and giving the great religion a bad name.

Thanks

[justahumane]

Well i have some hindu friends who would be pretty worried to know their 'way of life' is not a religion.

Open another thread matey and insha Allah i will join you there

sure brother, Insha-Allah soon.

[AvarAllahNoor]

You may believe that your god is our God (Allah), but we do not believe Our God (Allah) is your god

LMAO :rollseyes

[AvarAllahNoor]

Aoothu Billah!!!!
(I seek refuge)

This is where i (personally) have a problem. You believe that we can actually become like Allah? The Lord and Creater of All?

You think He took parts of himself and let them try and 'somehow' get back to him through good deeds and rememberence?

A'Stagfir Allah!!

This is where Sikhism and Islam totally differ, as we call this Shirk (ascribing partners with Allah)

Dont come back at me with the whole 'If a bottle falls into the 'one' sea is the sea not within and all around the bottle' because that for me is useless.

No we can't become Godlike, Soory that was a misquote by me.

Waheguru Satnaam!

[Hanif_Revert]

Brother, vedas are not divine book nor it claims to be divine. Vedas were written by human beings who thought themselves to be patrons of religion.

U are living in darkness of ignorence if u think that hindu is a religion, plz come out of it.

Its human nature to fight and kill coz shaitan is not a seperate entity as Islam suggests, shaitan is very much inside us. The only difference is that the book u are quoting doesnt asks anyone to kill in the name of BHAGVAN. Thus it gives nobody a chance to kill someone and declare that I killed coz BHAGVAN wanted me to kill according to the book. Plz stop thinking that muslims have sole right over terrorism, anyone can be terrorists as some hindus are too.

Yes everyone has a personal Shaytan (not within) who whispers to you.
Ok, so because your religion doesnt have any rules so what makes you say that it is wrong to have them?

Even Sikhism realises that struggle in the way of God is nescisary when required.
To you to base your claims of it not being from Allah on this is pretty narrow minded.
There are threads on this forum All'hamdollinllah that deal with this issue.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...-word-god.html

Te beauty of the Quran is that it leaves no question that we may need, unanswered
Suban Allah

[AvarAllahNoor]

So one day in the future, all of mankind will be Sikh?

Everybody is a Sikh, they just don't realise it yet...

[Hanif_Revert]

Brother I request u with folded hands that plz come out of ur ignorance and stop calling hindu a religion, coz its not. And what u mean by ppls of my religion created temples for rats and the sun? do U subscribe to the school fo thought of those ppls who says that U are a muslim therefore U are a terrorist? A word for wise is enough, so plz stop showing me what silly things ppls of my religion are doing and instead concentrate what ppls of ur religion are doing and giving the great religion a bad name.

Thanks

Your right, apparently, from your point of view I dont know enough about your faith to make an assumption so please open a new thread and let me know when you have.

[AvarAllahNoor]

BTW This si Sikhism thread can we make another for Hinduism. People may get confused...

[Hanif_Revert]

No we can't become Godlike, Soory that was a misquote by me.

Waheguru Satnaam!

Sorry, went on a bit of a tangent there!!!

OK, so what di you mean then?

If we are to be 'one' with god than surely we must be (mini gods) in your eye's?

[Hanif_Revert]

Everybody is a Sikh, they just don't realise it yet...

Again, will the world be full of just practicing Sikhs in Gurdwara's, with no birds, fish, insects, mammals, reptiles, plants or tree's (as they would all need to become human in order for them to ascend?)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Oh thanks Sis, I never know that we have someone with such divine authority to declare things like that. good to have U sister. may ALLAH bless U.

Thanks

yea well that was when i was thinking the same as hanif. But since u said it came out wrong i thought to myself " ok thats fine." So i apologize. I only answered you according to how u commented :)

May Allah(swt) guide you :)
Peace

[snakelegs]

SSA,
sikhism is also a revealed religion (like The Big 3) as it was revealed to the guru nanak and the other gurus by god - is that right?
does sikhism consider itself to be The One True Religion in the sense that christians and muslims do?
thanks

[AvarAllahNoor]

Sorry, went on a bit of a tangent there!!!

OK, so what di you mean then?

If we are to be 'one' with god than surely we must be (mini gods) in your eye's?

No, we 'merge' in the sense once we've lived our life to the command of the Lord, we then remain with him/her in Heaven.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Again, will the world be full of just practicing Sikhs in Gurdwara's, with no birds, fish, insects, mammals, reptiles, plants or tree's (as they would all need to become human in order for them to ascend?)

I sense sarcasm! - Sikh means 'Learner' so you as a muslim are learning about Islam, so in that sense you'd be called a Sikh too. Unless of course you think you have all the knowldege of Islam, they of course i'd be wrong!

Now back to your point. God makes all the world and along with the creations.

[AvarAllahNoor]

SSA,
sikhism is also a revealed religion (like The Big 3) as it was revealed to the Guru Nanak and the other gurus by God - is that right?
does sikhism consider itself to be The One True Religion in the sense that christians and muslims do?
thanks

Yes it was revealed by God to Guru Nanak and the other 9 Guru's

No, Sikhs don't claim we alone are the true religion, but remember the first people to covert to Sikhism (Guru Nanaks time) were Muslims and Hindus. They saw the real and unique message that other religions lacked/moved away from - Sikhi teaches all relgions are from the Lord. If those that think that's rubbish, ask them what makes them know the Omnipotence of God, and why they think this!

[Mohsin]

Yes it was revealed by God to Guru Nanak and the other 9 Guru's

No, Sikhs don't claim we alone are the true religion, but remember the first people to covert to Sikhism (Guru Nanaks time) were Muslims and Hindus. They saw the real and unique message that other religions lacked/moved away from - Sikhi teaches all relgions are from the Lord. If those that think that's rubbish, ask them what makes them know the Omnipotence of God, and why they think this!

This is where islam totally disagrees with sikhism

How can more than one religion be rioght. how can god create more than one religion. gos is erfect, he doesnt err or make mistakes. If X is a way to salvation, then Y isnt. If after we die we go to heaven/hell, then there is no reincarnation. If jesus is a prophet, then he isnt son of god. If god is one, then there isnt more than one god. Why would god create religions which contradict each other. UI've asked this several times on this thread before but AvarAllahnoor always avoided the question, just like he will now. He'll claim to have answered it, but in reality when the brother did eventually reply to it he didnt answer the question completely, just answered in riddle form i'm sad to say. this aspect of sikhism i find is the most difficult 4 me to understand.

[AvarAllahNoor]

This is where islam totally disagrees with sikhism

How can more than one religion be rioght. how can god create more than one religion. gos is erfect, he doesnt err or make mistakes. If X is a way to salvation, then Y isnt. If after we die we go to heaven/hell, then there is no reincarnation. If jesus is a prophet, then he isnt son of god. If god is one, then there isnt more than one god. Why would god create religions which contradict each other. UI've asked this several times on this thread before but AvarAllahnoor always avoided the question, just like he will now. He'll claim to have answered it, but in reality when the brother did eventually reply to it he didnt answer the question completely, just answered in riddle form i'm sad to say. this aspect of sikhism i find is the most difficult 4 me to understand.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Ok, brother i've not avoided it but you dont seem to grasp what is said in relation to it. :)

All religions were formed by God, but during the process (centuries passing) the sacred scriptures of all the faiths have been corrupted. (now who's going to admit to this) in the Guru Granth Sahib it states this aong with the verse about 'Kuran, Torah, Bible, and Vedas being true. (But before the scriptures were meddled with) Now Muslims claim the Torah and Bible have been meddled with, this is obvious. But you deny the Quran has been meddled with, correct?

So now can you understand. It's as simple as that. and not as difficult to grasp. God saw this and sent Guru Nanak on a mission to rectify this. But today once again the world is in turmoil. And only he knows what he's planning or planned

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

BTW - Can anyone name a holy scripture written by the Prophet of their faith, and not by disiples?? None spring to mind other than the Sikhs 'Guru Granth Sahib' which was written by Guru Arjan Dev ji the fifth Guru. And many reputable historians refer to this major fact.. :)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

if it was meddled with their wouldnt be the same copy from the start...
if it was written by a Prophet...it wouldnt be flawless....still human.
Only God is flawless. Besides a "true" Prophet would not right it himself.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Only God is flawless. Besides a "true" Prophet would not right it himself.

No, you're right. he'd mention it to other peopel who would then mention it to some more, and then it all ends like chinese whispers.....

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

lol that wasnt my point. Nevermind, i took it differently..=\ If you think thats how the Qur'an was collected all together...ur wrong. It wasn't written down like "Chinese Whispers."

[AvarAllahNoor]

Can a Shia muslim please shed light on this please?

''Shias are concerned as per then when Imam Mehdi will decend from Hevan,five Blue Clad,Turbanned people will follow him to restore sprituality.They will be Called Khalasis or librators.''

Does anyone know more about his??

[Hanif_Revert]

I sense sarcasm! - Sikh means 'Learner' so you as a muslim are learning about Islam, so in that sense you'd be called a Sikh too. Unless of course you think you have all the knowldege of Islam, they of course i'd be wrong!

Now back to your point. God makes all the world and along with the creations.

Im Back!!
:)
Sorry have been a bit busy last few days
What Sarcasm are you refering too mate?

I am making a point.
Ok we may all be 'Learners' but it doesnt change the fact that
In order to ascend or 'merge' with god as you put it we need to be in human form.
Correct me if you believe im wrong, we also need to 'Nam jaap' (recite the divine name of god)
So in order for everyone to 'merge' we must all be practicing sikhism?

[Hanif_Revert]

Now back to your point. God makes all the world and along with the creations.

You havnt answered my point. How can their be any animals/plants around if their souls will be in human form as 'learners'?

[Hanif_Revert]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Ok, brother i've not avoided it but you dont seem to grasp what is said in relation to it. :)

All religions were formed by God, but during the process (centuries passing) the sacred scriptures of all the faiths have been corrupted. (now who's going to admit to this) in the Guru Granth Sahib it states this aong with the verse about 'Kuran, Torah, Bible, and Vedas being true. (But before the scriptures were meddled with) Now Muslims claim the Torah and Bible have been meddled with, this is obvious. But you deny the Quran has been meddled with, correct?

Have you actually sat down and read the Quran / Bible or Torah?

Do you not realise how completeley contrasting they are to the belief's of Sikhism?

Have you not understood the countless people telling you that Islam/Christianity/Judaism ALL BELIEVE IN HELL/HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY?!!!

OK so your telling me, that 'chinese whispers' created a piece of literature that is completly flawless, perfect in terms of poetic and gramatic structure in one of the most comprehensive languages used on the planet and memorised by thousands upon thousands of people the world over WITHOUT A SINGLE DISCREPICY AMONGST THEM?

Do you know how many companions had memorised the Quran at the time of the prophet (saw). For you to say that some of them got it wrong and changed it is ludacrus to assume because somewhere else on the planet we would have a different version!!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Btw - Don't Shia muslims themselves claim the present day Quran is accepted as a changed version? So if mulsims are stating this then why are you claiming it's not?

[Hanif_Revert]

Btw - Don't Shia muslims themselves claim the present day Quran is accepted as a changed version? So if mulsims are stating this then why are you claiming it's not?

There is quote after quote after quote in the Quran that refutes their belief's but we may wan to open another thread for this. Or there may be another on on here already, i must admit i havnt done allot of digging on this forum as of yet.

But the main thing is how can they believe that Allah (swt) created their religion, perfected it, gave to them a prophet (saw) and a book of decree (Quran) which He (swt) said will not be allowed to be altered until judgement day, and then beleive it was altered?

Hypocrisy I think you'll agree.
Or you wont!!

[Hanif_Revert]

You havnt answered my point. How can their be any animals/plants around if their souls will be in human form as 'learners'?

Any answers to this?

[Mohsin]

Btw - Don't Shia muslims themselves claim the present day Quran is accepted as a changed version? So if mulsims are stating this then why are you claiming it's not?

No the vast vast majority of shias believe in the exact same Quran as we do. Its a proof actually that the qur'an has never chnged. There is no doubt many sects in islam, but all of them beliweve in the one and the same qur'an.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Have you actually sat down and read the Quran / Bible or Torah?

Do you not realise how completeley contrasting they are to the belief's of Sikhism?

Have you not understood the countless people telling you that Islam/Christianity/Judaism ALL BELIEVE IN HELL/HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY?!!!

OK so your telling me, that 'chinese whispers' created a piece of literature that is completly flawless, perfect in terms of poetic and gramatic structure in one of the most comprehensive languages used on the planet and memorised by thousands upon thousands of people the world over WITHOUT A SINGLE DISCREPICY AMONGST THEM?

Do you know how many companions had memorised the Quran at the time of the prophet (saw). For you to say that some of them got it wrong and changed it is ludacrus to assume because somewhere else on the planet we would have a different version!!

Calm down brother, as i posted before, Shia/shi'tes believe this too. If muslims themselves are doubting the Kuran, why wouldn't the rest!

[AvarAllahNoor]

You havnt answered my point. How can their be any animals/plants around if their souls will be in human form as 'learners'?

That's like saying all the people in the universe are good. - They'll always be people in the circle of reincarnation.

[AvarAllahNoor]

BTW - I've noticed my post about the Guru Granth Sahib being the only one written by the Prophets themseves has been deleted. - That's the sign of the truth being exposed, and you're afraid. :giggling:

[Mohsin]

BTW - I've noticed my post about the Guru Granth Sahib being the only one written by the Prophets themseves has been deleted. - That's the sign of the truth being exposed, and you're afraid. :giggling:

your claim is absolutely false. prophet Moses PBUh wrote the torah down himself after it was revealed to him. Theres nothing special about that, your clutching straws

And i'll say again, shias dont believe the quran has changed. we believe in the one and same quran

[AvarAllahNoor]

your claim is absolutely false. prophet Moses PBUh wrote the torah down himself after it was revealed to him. Theres nothing special about that, your clutching straws

Think you'll find, scholars going back to the 2nd century CE, or for an example in medieval times, Ibn Ezra in the 12th century, found troubling evidence that Moses did not in fact write the Torah. For example, there are references in the Torah to Moses in the third person, such as his being modest, or naming Edomite kings (Gen. 36) that were known to have lived after Moses died.

May need to make a thread for this!

[Hanif_Revert]

That's like saying all the people in the universe are good. - They'll always be people in the circle of reincarnation.

So for eternity there will be people in reincarnation?

Where is the proof in your book for this?

[Hanif_Revert]

BTW - I've noticed my post about the Guru Granth Sahib being the only one written by the Prophets themseves has been deleted. - That's the sign of the truth being exposed, and you're afraid. :giggling:

How does this proove that yours is the 'true' religion?

You havnt bothered to do your research into Islam properly

There have been many debates and books written on the subject, but if you cant get your head around the fact that there are written historical documents that confrim history then there is not much point in bothering to discuss this is there?.

Just try to picture it. 10,000 companions - Memorised most or all of the Quran. (We konw its possible because it is done today.) - How can you say that it could have been changed when compiled?

Not only do we have the quran, but we have the biographies of every single sahaba (companion). Given that most arabs can trace their family roots back for hundreds of generations , and given that we have historcal documents outside of islam confirming the islamic biographies of the sahaba then the odds that it was an change are astronimical.

[Mohsin]

Think you'll find, scholars going back to the 2nd century CE, or for an example in medieval times, Ibn Ezra in the 12th century, found troubling evidence that Moses did not in fact write the Torah. For example, there are references in the Torah to Moses in the third person, such as his being modest, or naming Edomite kings (Gen. 36) that were known to have lived after Moses died.

May need to make a thread for this!

I think you misunderstood. The torah was revealed to Moses PBUH. Jews believe this, as do muslims and christians. Likewise they all accept that the torah was later destroyed, and had to be re-written from memory. this si where it changed and contradictions/scientific errors came into it, and also the writers who were re-writing from meory spoke about prophet moses' events in the 3rd person. But all 3 semetic religions believe the Torah was revealed to Moses PBUh and he wrote down on the tablet the 10 commandments etc

[Hanif_Revert]

Its funny, An friend of my parents actually tried to say the same things quoting from a 'Penguin' version of the Quran by N.J Dawood, in which the transliterations were close to slander.

I hope when Sikh's and people from other religions decide to read the Quran they do get a transliteration that is actually done by someone who understands the language and doesnt have a alterior agenda.
I recommend either Pickthall or Yusuf Ali

[AvarAllahNoor]

Its funny, An friend of my parents actually tried to say the same things quoting from a 'Penguin' version of the Quran by N.J Dawood, in which the transliterations were close to slander.

I hope when Sikh's and people from other religions decide to read the Quran they do get a transliteration that is actually done by someone who understands the language and doesnt have a alterior agenda.
I recommend either Pickthall or Yusuf Ali

Brother i have read the Kuran, and i have no issues with what is written. - I like discussions, The Gurus had discussions, Mohammed did and so did Jesus. What annoys me is when we're attacked our or scriptures are verbally.

Religion is prescribed by the Lord and we should try to understnad each other rather then get our pitchforks out when we don't see eye to eye

Sat Shri Akal

[Hanif_Revert]

Brother i have read the Kuran, and i have no issues with what is written. - I like discussions, The Gurus had discussions, Mohammed did and so did Jesus. What annoys me is when we're attacked our or scriptures are verbally.

Religion is prescribed by the Lord and we should try to understnad each other rather then get our pitchforks out when we don't see eye to eye

Sat Shri Akal

Who's attacking you?

I was talking about my parents friend in this situation

It seems you know something I dont about what makes Siki the truth

Religion is perscribed by the Lord - but worship to him in any, which way we seem fit is Not perscribed.

Just like you wouldnt be allowed to work without guidlines or rules. God would not ask us to worship Him without rules and guidlines either.

Discussion is fine. Understanding is one thing and seeing eye to eye is another. i agree we should understand what the other is talking about. but understanding your point of view does not mean I have to understand that it is correct.
I can understand why you are proud to be Sikh, but i cant understand why you which to disobey God's command, or how you cant see the clarity of my point of view.

Just as you cannot understand how God would not allow one of his prophets to change His (Allah's) decree.
Or how you cannot understand how a revelation memorised by thousands of people could be altered to include something against God's decree.
Or how you cant understand the hypocrisy in the Sikhi doctrine abolishing most of God's previous commandments (Empty rituals) - yet claims to be an addition to Gods Decree

But just because I dont agree with your concepts or understand your rationality, dont take it personally. :happy::

[Hanif_Revert]

So for eternity there will be people in reincarnation?

Where is the proof in your book for this?

You still havnt answered this question from a month ago.

Please advise

[Hanif_Revert]

Another question:

If a tree has the same type of soul as every other living creature, how can it go through the stages of Mukti (salvation through reincarnation) if its soul is trapped within this vessel?

Some of the oldest tree's are over 4'500 years old.

What about bacteria and other single celled organisms?

Do they have the same soul as us? They have life within them do they not?

[AvarAllahNoor]

So for eternity there will be people in reincarnation?

Where is the proof in your book for this?

This is common sense, no? Do you think Allah will decide that animals etc will cease to exist? I think not!

[Hanif_Revert]

This is common sense, no? Do you think Allah will decide that animals etc will cease to exist? I think not!

You didnt answer the question. Where is this stated in the Guru Granth Sahib?

Forgive me if im wrong, but you're statement presumes the earth will be around forever.

Do you really believe this?

Allah states in the Quran

Men ask you of the Hour. Say the knowledge of it is with God only. What can convey to you that may be the Hour is near. Qur'an Chapter 33 Verse 63

They bid you to hasten on the doom. And if a term had not been appointed, the doom would have definitely come on them. And it will come upon them suddenly when they perceive not. Qur'an Chapter 29 Verse 53

The threatened hour is near. None beside God can disclose it. Are you surprised then at this statement? Qur'an Chapter 53 Verse 57-59

[Muhammad]

:sl: and Greetings,

It seems that we are going slightly off-topic in this thread and that posts are bordering on being disrespectful. Please focus on the discussion at hand and remember to respect other beliefs.

AvarAllahNoor,

I am not sure who deleted the post you referred to about books being written by the Prophets themselves. However, if you are claiming that the Qur'an has been distorted simply because the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not write it himself, then this is unacceptable. First of all, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was illiterate and thus was not capable of writing it, which attests to the divinity of the Qur'an: a book that could not be produced by an illiterate person. Secondly, the Qur'an has not only been preserved in text, but more importantly, in the hearts of men. It does not matter who wrote it first; what is important is how it was preserved.

The issue about shi'ahs is also invalid, as has been explained earlier, therefore it would be appreciated if this was not repeatedly stated. Not all shi'as believe the Qur'an was changed, and even if some do, their views do not constitute the mainstream Islamic view based upon factual evidence.

Peace.

[AvarAllahNoor]

:sl: and Greetings,

It seems that we are going slightly off-topic in this thread and that posts are bordering on being disrespectful. Please focus on the discussion at hand and remember to respect other beliefs.

AvarAllahNoor,

I am not sure who deleted the post you referred to about books being written by the Prophets themselves. However, if you are claiming that the Qur'an has been distorted simply because the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not write it himself, then this is unacceptable. First of all, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was illiterate and thus was not capable of writing it, which attests to the divinity of the Qur'an: a book that could not be produced by an illiterate person. Secondly, the Qur'an has not only been preserved in text, but more importantly, in the hearts of men. It does not matter who wrote it first; what is important is how it was preserved.

The issue about shi'ahs is also invalid, as has been explained earlier, therefore it would be appreciated if this was not repeatedly stated. Not all shi'as believe the Qur'an was changed, and even if some do, their views do not constitute the mainstream Islamic view based upon factual evidence.

Peace.

Then brother what is the purpose of going around in circles? all questions have been asnwered. It's ok ofr oters to say as they please in regard to Sikhi, but when i say it then it's seen as an attack. I SAY ONCE AGAIN, SIKHI is not a fabricated religion, neither is Islam. BUT people who distort verses from Guru Granth Shaib, and then use them to justify ludicrious claims, will be met by the same. - Sikhi is not here to step on amyone's toes but a revelation of Allah, believe it ro not it's here to stay!

Respect, and you shall get respect in return!

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Then brother what is the purpose of going around in circles? all questions have been asnwered. It's ok ofr oters to say as they please in regard to Sikhi, but when i say it then it's seen as an attack. I SAY ONCE AGAIN, SIKHI is not a fabricated religion, neither is Islam. BUT people who distort verses from Guru Granth Shaib, and then use them to justify ludicrious claims, will be met by the same. - Sikhi is not here to step on amyone's toes but a revelation of Allah, believe it ro not it's here to stay!

Respect, and you shall get respect in return!

I am sorry, I have not been following this thread very closely recently, so I don't really know what has been said. It is not ok for others to offend your religion, and if they do so, then please use the 'report a post' facility and we shall deal with the situation.

I would like to point out that as Muslims, we do not believe that Allaah revealed the religion of Sikhism, but we respect that you believe that it was divinely revealed. I say this because your reference to 'Allaah' implies a connection with Muslim belief, so I just wish to mark a differentiation.

Peace :).

[AvarAllahNoor]

Greetings,

I am sorry, I have not been following this thread very closely recently, so I don't really know what has been said. It is not ok for others to offend your religion, and if they do so, then please use the 'report a post' facility and we shall deal with the situation.

I would like to point out that as Muslims, we do not believe that Allaah revealed the religion of Sikhism, but we respect that you believe that it was divinely revealed. I say this because your reference to 'Allaah' implies a connection with Muslim belief, so I just wish to mark a differentiation.

Peace :).

Thankyou brother for your kind words.- We don't require muslims to believe Sikhism to be revealed by Allah, because we know it is. And that's all we rely on.

Gur Fateh

[Hanif_Revert]

Thankyou brother for your kind words.- We don't require muslims to believe Sikhism to be revealed by Allah, because we know it is. And that's all we rely on.

Gur Fateh

Sorry if you feel you are being attacked, but i dont understand where you get this from. Pleae point out a thread which is dirogetory or rude and if it was mine i will appologise and edit it.

All im trying to do is find answers to the questions ive asked. you say all have been answered but if you look back at the last few pages and read them. These are new questions which have not been touched before. So with all due respect, we arent really going around in circles.

:thankyou:

[AvarAllahNoor]

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah,

and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.

Now, this is proof that Sikhism is the religion revealed by God. Sikhs have the Khalsa, which is arabic for pure. - It states in the Kuran.


Khalsa Akal Purakh ki Fauj


The blue print of The Khalsa defined by first Sikh Guru Nanak, was given a formal, unique and unprecedented position by the tenth Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh. Guru Nanak defined Khalsa as 'TRUTH 'TRUTH god's OWN ARMY' to the holy crusaders. Eternal KHALSA Crusaders, eternally pitted against nothing but Falsehood in endless battle. The rules & ethics of the battle being , based on nothing but charity, love & service to human beings. The constitution of the KHALSA being universal Guru, Satgur Granth sahib.

This brings unprecedented responsibilities and duties that need to be fulfilled by the Khalsa. If the Khalsa is Akal Purakh's fauj or army then the duties of the Khalsa is to serve the Almighty and the entire people of the world. This concept is all encompassing and cannot be used in a narrow sense to refer to the duties of the Khalsa to a small sect or elite group. The Khalsa must serve the wider world community and that is the goal set by the Gurus. If the Khalsa fails to serve this wider goal, it will be lacking in its duties to their Guru.


Guru Gobind Singh has very clearly set the mission for the Sikhs to tread this unique path. The Khalsa is to serve all the peoples of the World – only then can it be Akal Purakh ki Fauj. When the Khalsa starts serving the needs of a few, it will fail in its duties as set out by Guru Gobind Singh.

ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਫ਼ੌਜ ॥
khhaalasaa akaal purakh ki fauj ||
Khalsa is God's Army



ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਓ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਤਮ ਕੀ ਮੌਜ ॥
pragattiou khhaalasaa pramaatham kee mauj ||
It's sustained by the Will of the Almighty


Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

Sikhs do this.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

This is referring to believers, i.e. Muslims.

[AvarAllahNoor]

This is referring to believers, i.e. Muslims.

He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah,

It says with the believers, not just the believers.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I wont attempt to interpret, itd be wrong if i said something incorrect.

[Muhammad]

Greetings AvarAllahNoor,

The verses in question are:

O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islam), Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the way of Allah, and never fearing the blame of the blamers. That is the grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower.

Verily, your Protector is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, those who perform the Salah, and give Zakah, and they bow down.

And whosoever takes Allah, His Messenger, and those who have believed, as protectors, then the party of Allah will be the victorious.

[Qur'an, 5:54-56]

Now, this is proof that Sikhism is the religion revealed by God. Sikhs have the Khalsa, which is arabic for pure. - It states in the Kuran.

The verses that you quoted do not support this argument in any way, as is clear from the context. In fact, this is clear from the Qur'an as a whole. Many verses can be mentioned here; verses about Allaah perfecting Islam, naming us Muslims, accepting only Islam, about the finality of Prophethood and being the best nation raised up for mankind. And we haven't even looked at hadeeth, yet already so many contradictions to what you have asserted.


But looking at the verse, what gives the impression that it is referring to a whole new religion? It is simply threatening to replace the believers with another people if they revert from Islam. If we look to a source that actually has some credibility, such as a scholar of Islam and exegete of the Noble Qur'an, Ibn Kathir says:

Allah emphasizes His mighty ability and states that whoever reverts from supporting His religion and establishing His Law, then Allah will replace them with whomever is better, mightier and more righteous in Allah's religion and Law. Allah said in other Ayat,

(And if you turn away, He will exchange you for some other people and they will not be your likes.) and,

(Do you not see that Allah has created the heavens and the earth with truth If He will, He can remove you and bring (in your place) a new creation! And for Allah that is not hard or difficult.)[14:19-20]. Verily this is not difficult or hard on Allah. Allah said here,

(O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion...) and turns back from the truth to falsehood, from now until the commencement of the Last Hour.

Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).


Sikhs do this.

Sikhs might give charity and pray, but that does not mean they worship Allaah and take Muhammad (peace be upon him) as a Prophet. Going back to Ibn Kathir:

(those who perform the Salah, and give the Zakah...) referring to the believers who have these qualities and establish the prayer, which is one of the most important pillars of Islam, for it includes worshipping Allah alone without partners. They pay Zakah, which is the right of the creation and a type of help extended to the needy and the poor...

(and they bow down,) means, they attend the prayer in congregation in Allah's Masjids and spend by way of charity on the various needs of Muslims.

Peace.

[snakelegs]

do sikhs believe in the devil, and if so, is it similar to the muslim concept of shaitan, or different?
hope this hasn't been asked 100,641 times already.

[One Man Army]

sikhs do not believe in shaitan or the devil. as they believe that there is no force in the world that has the power to oppose God. they believe in a thing called kaljug. that is the age of earth that we are living in. the dark age (translation of Kaljug). they believe this is a creation of God to test us as human beings. a thing called maya is the test for sikhs. dillusion. the wantingness to keep attatchment to the world. money. they believe 5 enemies, lust, anger, greed, attatchment, ego. these are the equivalent to the devil in sikhism. its your own mind. theres a quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji that ses, 'conqure your mind, you conqure the world'.

Sikhs believe in one God. they worship that God alone. they do recognise muhammad as a being a messenger of God, but do not follow his path. Guru Gobind Singh Ji speaks of muhammads coming to the earth, but where his mission was not complete. he then goes on to say how Guru Gobind Singh ji has come to preach the word of God, and God only.

[Mohsin]

Sikhs believe in one God. they worship that God alone. they do recognise muhammad as a being a messenger of God, but do not follow his path. Guru Gobind Singh Ji speaks of muhammads coming to the earth, but where his mission was not complete. he then goes on to say how Guru Gobind Singh ji has come to preach the word of God, and God only.

I think this is probably where i get confused with sikh theology so maybe you can clarify insha'allah

If sikhs accept muhammed PBUH as a prophet, what does that mean. Surely God only chooses perfect people as prophets, one he knows would do the job properly and not disobey god and fabricate blatant lies.

So why did muhammed PBUh say time and time again he is the last prophet
Also why did he say Allah says that Muhammed is the seal of the prophethood. If you believe he is a prophet, you will believe he is truthful, as why would god choose such a liar, God knows the future, I am sure you agree

I await your response

[One Man Army]

in that case brother then wat was the point of allah sending down all those other prophets, which i know islam accepts? people are sent, they give a messege, but people do fail aswel. people get full of ego. messeges get changed through out the years due to miss interpretation. this is why Guru Nanak ji was sent. every time theres a dyer need in the world for a saviour, God sends someone down. it was a great need in the world when the Gurus came, and so much bad was abolished, including forceful violation of human rights. just like when muhammad came to destroy all of the idols that where placed in the kabah.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

No Prophet(pbut) "falied." They all portrayed the message given to them by God(swt). They completed what was told of them. Each Prophet(pbut) was sent for different times and different places. To people who had not recieved the message.

[Hanif_Revert]

It's funny how much Sikhism is like Sufism.

Sufism as a sect came much later than Islam is an innovation to the religion.

The companion of Guru nank was probably also a Sufi.

They also believe in detachment from this world and that Allah is all around (a'stagfirAllah)

To clarify regarding the prophets of old, they all came with a single message, to worship one God and not to associate partners with Him. (But im sure we have been here before):yawn:

It appears that Sikhs do not want to believe the evidence that supports the divinity of the Holy Quran - as the final un-altered guidence for the whole of Mankind

"This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion."
- Qur'an 5:3

Peace

[snakelegs]

in sikhism, is god separate from his creation or is he in everything?

[One Man Army]

sikhism does not in any way believe in detatchment from the world. they believe in detatchment from your minds wants. the 5 thieves, lust, anger, greed, attatchment, and ego. Guru Nanak taught a way of life called grishty jeevan. living a householder life and remembering God at the same time.

Guru Nanak ji was not a sufi. He belonged to non but allah himself.

Sikhs believe God resides within everything. its about seeing God in everthing which is the callenge, including human beings. this promotes equality of the human race.



when i talk of failing, im refering to hindu mythology as alot of there religious leaders where victims to the force of Ego.

[Mohsin]

in that case brother then wat was the point of allah sending down all those other prophets, which i know islam accepts? people are sent, they give a messege, but people do fail aswel. people get full of ego. messeges get changed through out the years due to miss interpretation. this is why Guru Nanak ji was sent. every time theres a dyer need in the world for a saviour, God sends someone down. it was a great need in the world when the Gurus came, and so much bad was abolished, including forceful violation of human rights. just like when muhammad came to destroy all of the idols that where placed in the kabah.

Brother you have not answered any iof my questions, but made irelevant points. Porphets did not fail, their messages became corrupted as you have said.

when i talk of failing, im refering to hindu mythology as alot of there religious leaders where victims to the force of Ego.

Out of interest, what do you mean by fail? I wold really like to know what you meant, what force of ego are you referring to

We simply believe God sent several prophets before but their message became lost/altered and thus Gods message and religion was no longer present in its true state so God sent a new prophet.

Now show me where islam has become corrupted. yes many muslims may be corrupted, but the Qur'an is still there, as is the sunnah- the sayings of the prophet pbuh. So why did God send Guru Nanak if Muhammed PBUhs message was not altered. Does it mean God realised he made a mistake and the message he sent out originally was not good enough or was wrong? Na'uadubillah as muslims we seek shelter from such thoughts that God can make mistakes

I dont believe you sufficiently answered my previous questions so here they go again

If sikhs accept muhammed PBUH as a prophet, what does that mean. Surely God only chooses perfect people as prophets, one he knows would do the job properly and not disobey god and fabricate blatant lies.

So why did muhammed PBUH say time and time again he is the last prophet
Also why did he say that Allah says (In the Quran) that Muhammed is the seal of the prophethood. If you believe he is a prophet, you will believe he is truthful, as why would god choose such a liar. God knows the future, I am sure you agree

In addition to the questions above can you also explain to me what you meant by a prophet failing. If you meant if the religion wasnt successful and didnt get many followers on the true path, then that means sikhism also failed miserabally, so did God make another mistake according to you? please clarify. Thanks

[Hanif_Revert]

sikhism does not in any way believe in detatchment from the world. they believe in detatchment from your minds wants. the 5 thieves, lust, anger, greed, attatchment, and ego. Guru Nanak taught a way of life called grishty jeevan. living a householder life and remembering God at the same time.

Guru Nanak ji was not a sufi. He belonged to non but allah himself.

Sikhs believe God resides within everything. its about seeing God in everthing which is the callenge, including human beings. this promotes equality of the human race.

when i talk of failing, im refering to hindu mythology as alot of there religious leaders where victims to the force of Ego.

I never said Guru Nanak was a Sufi, i merely made a suggestion that his companion Bhai Mardana the Muslim was a Sufi as his / Sikh's beliefs are similar to Sufi's beliefs regarding Allah.

I think that victims of Ego are those who believe that the religion they were born into /i.e the religion of their forefathers is the only truth refusing to contemplate on other faith's.

God residing in everything again is a Sufi belief.

[Hanif_Revert]

Another question:

If a tree has the same type of soul as every other living creature, how can it go through the stages of Mukti (salvation through reincarnation) if its soul is trapped within this vessel?

Some of the oldest tree's are over 4'500 years old.

What about bacteria and other single celled organisms?

Do they have the same soul as us? They have life within them do they not?

"UltimateTruth"

Since AvarNoor has not answered my questions on several occasions, perhaps you could shed some light?

Also will reincarnation take place forever?

If so where is this stated in your book?

[AvarAllahNoor]

I never said Guru Nanak was a Sufi, i merely made a suggestion that his companion Bhai Mardana the Muslim was a Sufi as his / Sikh's beliefs are similar to Sufi's beliefs regarding Allah.

I think that victims of Ego are those who believe that the religion they were born into /i.e the religion of their forefathers is the only truth refusing to contemplate on other faith's.

God residing in everything again is a Sufi belief.

It's you who won't contemplate on other faiths. Saying yours is immune to distortion but others are distorted, that's ego.

BTW - Who said Bhai Mardana is a Sufi? Source pease

[AvarAllahNoor]

that Allah is all around (a'stagfirAllah)

Surely by this statement you mean to imply Allah is not all around? Where can he be located then, please elaborate?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Allah is nowhere IN this world, but He is still able to see everything we do, speak, think, and feel. Only creation is part of creation.(wondering if u guys get that). Our minds are still limited, so we cant perceive. If we could understand everything about Allah, it wouldn make Him unique

Allah knows best.

Ok anywayz back to topic :D

[snakelegs]

i've read more than once that guru nanak's companion was a muslim.
there are some writings in the GGS by sufi poets.
i also believe that god is in everything and it is not only sufism that believes this way.

[AvarAllahNoor]

i've read more than once that guru nanak's companion was a muslim.
there are some writings in the GGS by sufi poets.
i also believe that god is in everything and it is not only sufism that believes this way.

Indeed this is true. God is everywhere, how can he not be! - This is why the quote of 'In the East resides the God of Muslims....came into being, because some muslims thought this is the only direction he was present. - This just confirms by the post above, that God isn't percieved to be all around. Unlike all the other religions believe. ;D

[AvarAllahNoor]

Allah is nowhere IN this world, but He is still able to see everything we do, speak, think, and feel. D

Guru Arjan, "'God is beyond colour and form, yet His presence is clearly visible"' (SGG, 74),

'"Nanak's Lord transcends the world as well as the scriptures of the east and the west, and yet he is clearly manifest'" (SGG, 397).:)

[AvarAllahNoor]

Only creation is part of creation.(wondering if u guys get that). D

Guru Arjan, “True is He and true is His creation [because] all has emanated from God Himself” (GG 294). But God is not identical with the universe. The latter exists and is contained in Him and not vice versa. God is immanent in the created world, but is not limited by it.

“Many times He expands Himself into such worlds but He ever remains the same One Ekonkar" (GG, 276). Even at one time "there are hundreds of thousands of skies and nether regions" (GG, 5).

Included in Sach Khand (Realm of Truth), the figurative abode of God, there are countless regions and universes" (GG, 8). Creation is "His sport which He Himself witnesses, and when He rolls up the sport, He is His sole Self again" (GG, 292). He Himself is the Creator, Sustainer and the Destroyer.

[Hanif_Revert]

It's you who won't contemplate on other faiths. Saying yours is immune to distortion but others are distorted, that's ego.

BTW - Who said Bhai Mardana is a Sufi? Source pease

I never said he was a Sufi, I said in my opinion he probably was a Sufi. Because:

Liked to sing and use musical instruments
Believed Gog is Everywhere
Worldly detachment
Etc....

It's you who won't contemplate on other faiths. Saying yours is immune to distortion but others are distorted, that's ego.

Hey i just look at the facts. Not Ego. If i had ego, you would hear me stating things like

"The religion my parents followed is the greatest"

[Hanif_Revert]

Surely by this statement you mean to imply Allah is not all around? Where can he be located then, please elaborate?

Sikhism like Sufism teach that "God is everywhere." This is actually called "pantheism" and it is the opposite of our believe system in Islam.

Allah tells us clearly that there is nothing, anywhere in the universe that resembles Him, nor is He ever in His creation. He tells us in the Quran that He created the universe in six "yawm" (periods of time) and then He "astawah 'ala al Arsh" (rose up, above His Throne). He is there (above His Throne) and will remain there until the End Times.

[Hanif_Revert]

"UltimateTruth"

Since AvarNoor has not answered my questions on several occasions, perhaps you could shed some light?

Also will reincarnation take place forever?

If so where is this stated in your book?

???

[Hanif_Revert]

Another question:

If a tree has the same type of soul as every other living creature, how can it go through the stages of Mukti (salvation through reincarnation) if its soul is trapped within this vessel?

Some of the oldest tree's are over 4'500 years old.

What about bacteria and other single celled organisms?

Do they have the same soul as us? They have life within them do they not?

Could these outstanding questions be answered by the Guru Granth Please or other scriptures you may have?imsad

[AvarAllahNoor]

Could these outstanding questions be answered by the Guru Granth Please or other scriptures you may have?imsad

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

LOL - Don't be sad Brother. This shall be answered later today!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Sikhism like Sufism teach that "God is everywhere." This is actually called "pantheism" and it is the opposite of our believe system in Islam.

Allah tells us clearly that there is nothing, anywhere in the universe that resembles Him, nor is He ever in His creation. He tells us in the Quran that He created the universe in six "yawm" (periods of time) and then He "astawah 'ala al Arsh" (rose up, above His Throne). He is there (above His Throne) and will remain there until the End Times.

You keep saying God is not everywhere, please tell me where he is??

When it pleases God, He becomes sarguna and manifests Himself in creation. He becomes immanent in His created universe, which is His own emanation, an aspect of Himself. As says Guru Amar Das, Nanak III, "This (so-called) poison, the world, that you see is God's picture; it is God's outline that we see" (GG, 922). Most names of God are His attributive, action-related signifiers, kirtam nam (GG, 1083)


Immanence or All-pervasiveness of God, however, does not limit or in any way affect His transcendence. He is Transcendent and Immanent at the same time. The Creation is His lila or cosmic play. He enjoys it, pervades it, yet Himself remains unattached.

Guru Arjan describes Him in several hymns as "Unattached and Unentangled in the midst of all" (GG, 102, 294, 296); and "Amidst all, yet outside of all, free from love and hate" (GG, 784-85). Creation is His manifestation, but, being conditioned by space and time, it provides only a partial and imperfect glimpse of the Timeless and Boundless Supreme Being.

[shanu]

Guru Nanak was a nice man, and he mixed hinduism and islam to avoid conflict between both parties. Its sad he failedf to see the truth in islam and used alot of quranic verses in some of his books, especially abt the sun and the moon being a sphere?

Some of his teachings are good. Like he taught hindoos to forsake teir silly superstitions, like in one story hindoos were pouring water in a field saying that it will reach the dead, Guru Nanak upon seeing this took some water and threw the other side n said to the hindoos that by throwing water here it will reach his padi fields.

But alot of his teachings are from the Quran.

[Hanif_Revert]

You keep saying God is not everywhere, please tell me where he is??

When it pleases God, He becomes sarguna and manifests Himself in creation. He becomes immanent in His created universe, which is His own emanation, an aspect of Himself. As says Guru Amar Das, Nanak III, "This (so-called) poison, the world, that you see is God's picture; it is God's outline that we see" (GG, 922). Most names of God are His attributive, action-related signifiers, kirtam nam (GG, 1083)


Immanence or All-pervasiveness of God, however, does not limit or in any way affect His transcendence. He is Transcendent and Immanent at the same time. The Creation is His lila or cosmic play. He enjoys it, pervades it, yet Himself remains unattached.

Guru Arjan describes Him in several hymns as "Unattached and Unentangled in the midst of all" (GG, 102, 294, 296); and "Amidst all, yet outside of all, free from love and hate" (GG, 784-85). Creation is His manifestation, but, being conditioned by space and time, it provides only a partial and imperfect glimpse of the Timeless and Boundless Supreme Being.

Im sure this thread is about Sikhi, and these questions must have been answered on another thread but i will indulge you.

"Do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens), will not cause the earth to sink…Or do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens) will not send against you a violent whirlwind?" [67:16-17]

"And when Allah said: 'O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself'."[3:55]

Jabir ibn Abdillah said: "The Messenger of Allah said in his speech on the day of Arafah: 'Did I convey (the Message).' They said: 'Yes.' While raising his finger to the sky and then pointing at them, he said: 'O my Lord, be a witness." [Muslim]

He is above the creation in a manner that befits his majesty.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Im sure this thread is about Sikhi, and these questions must have been answered on another thread but i will indulge you.

"Do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens), will not cause the earth to sink…Or do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens) will not send against you a violent whirlwind?" [67:16-17]

"And when Allah said: 'O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself'."[3:55]

Jabir ibn Abdillah said: "The Messenger of Allah said in his speech on the day of Arafah: 'Did I convey (the Message).' They said: 'Yes.' While raising his finger to the sky and then pointing at them, he said: 'O my Lord, be a witness." [Muslim]

He is above the creation in a manner that befits his majesty.

Brother, i mean this most sincerely wonderful quotes! :)

But i fail to see the relevance, are you saying by this ' 'Yes.' While raising his finger to the sky and then pointing at them, he said: 'O my Lord, be a witness." it implies Allah is only above? Please answer, so i can then explain abit more!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Guru Nanak was a nice man, and he mixed hinduism and islam to avoid conflict between both parties. Its sad he failedf to see the truth in islam and used alot of quranic verses in some of his books, especially abt the sun and the moon being a sphere?

But alot of his teachings are from the Quran.

Sister Thanks for joining the chat. :)

Similarities can be found between the Bible and the Quran, does that mean the Quran was copied by Mohammed? No

This is a long post and has been posted before no doubt. But this will put an end to all claims on Guru Nanak and the combining of both religions. (I hope)





When the Guru arrived, weary and footsore, in Makka, he went and sat in the great mosque where pilgrims were engaged in their devotions. His disregard of Moslem customs soon involved him in difficulties. When he lay down to sleep at night he turned his feet towards the Kaaba. An Arab priest kicked him and said, 'Who is this sleeping infidel? Why hast thou, O sinner, turned thy feet towards God?' The Guru replied, 'Turn my feet in a direction in which God is not.'[1] Upon this the priest seized the Guru's feet and dragged them in the opposite direction, whereupon, it is said, the temple turned round, and followed the revolution of his body. Some understand this in a spiritual sense, and say it means that Guru Nanak made all Makka turn to his teaching. Those who witnessed this miracle were astonished and saluted the Guru as a supernatural being.

The Qazis and the Mullas crowded round the Guru, and interrogated him on the subject of his religion. They admitted that he had accomplished a great feat, but the source of his power was not apparent. They opened his book, and seeing that it was on religious subjects, inquired which was


E se, dov' ei dimora,
Non intendesti ancora,
Confondimi, se puoi;
Dimmi dov' ei non è.
(Metastasio.)


Superior, the Hindu or the Muhammadan religion. The Guru replied, 'Without good acts the professors of both religions shall suffer. Neither the Hindus nor the Muhammadans shall obtain entrance into God's court. All their devotions shall vanish like the fleeting dye of safflower. Both sects are jealous of each other. The Hindus insist on saying Ram and the Moslems Rahim, but they know not the one God. On that occasion the Guru uttered the following hymn in the Tilang measure:--

Thy fasting and worship shall be acceptable
When thou, O man, keepest watch over the ten apertures of thy body, hatest the world,
Chastenest thy mind, restrainest thy sight, and fleest worldly desires and wranglings.
Every day of the month offer thy love to the Lord thus shalt thou be recognized as pure and gentle.
Keep the fast of meditation, and let the renunciation of pleasure be thy dance;
Keep watch over thy heart, so shalt thou be a really learned man;
Abandon delights, ease, evil speaking, mental anxiety, and vexation;
Treasure kindness in thy heart, and renounce the devices of infidelity;
Extinguish the fire of lust in thy heart, and thus become cool.
Saith Nanak, thus practise fasting, and thy faith shall be perfect.'[1]

When the Guru had finished, the Qazi said, 'Well done! I have to-day for the first time seen a real saint of God.' The Qazi then went and told the high priest that the darwesh Nanak had arrived. The high priest went to see him, shook hands with him and sat down beside him. He thanked God that Guru Nanak had come.

The high priest asked Nanak if the Hindus who read the Veds, and the Musalmans who read the Quran, should or should not find God.

The high priest then asked how God might be obtained by men. The Guru replied that it was by humility and prayer. He added the following hymn in the Persian language:--

I make one supplication before Thee; lend Thine ear, O Creator.


O God, Thou art great and merciful; Thou art the faultless Cherisher.
The world is a perishable abode; O my heart, know this as the truth.
Azrail[1] seizeth me by the hair of my head; yet thou knowest it not, O my heart.
There shall be no wife, no son, no father, no brother, no one to take my hand.
There shall be no one to hinder my falling at last when my fate[2] cometh.
I have passed my nights and days in vanity, and my thoughts have been evil.
I have never done a good act-this is my condition;
I am unfortunate, I am also miserly and negligent; I see not, and I fear not.
Nanak saith, I am Thy slave, and the dust of the feet of Thy servants.[3]

The high priest then asked the Guru to tell him the composition of matter, the nature of the God he adored, how He was to be found, and in what consisted the essence of his religion. The Guru replied again in the Persian language:--

Know that according to the Musalmans everything is produced from air, fire, water, and earth;
But the pure God created the world out of five elements.[4]
However high man may leap, he shall fall on the earth again.
Even though a bird fly, it cannot compete in endurance with the torrent and the wind which move by God's will.
How great shall I call God? to whom shall I go to in quire regarding Him?


He is the greatest of the great, and great is His world men depart in their pride.[1]
I have consulted the four Veds, but these writings find not God's limits.
I have consulted the four books of the Muhammadans, but God s worth is not described in them.
I have consulted the nine regions of the earth; one improveth upon what the other saith.
Having turned my heart into a boat, I have searched in every sea;
I have dwelt by rivers and streams, and bathed at the sixty-eight places of pilgrimage;
I have lived among the forests and glades of the three worlds and eaten bitter and sweet;
I have seen the seven nether regions and heavens upon heavens.
And I, Nanak, say man shall be true to his faith if he fear God and do good works.[1]

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

The issue concerning where Allaah is has already been addressed elsewhere on the forum, see this post for example:

http://www.islamicboard.com/517341-post21.html

He is above the seven heavens, and with us by His Knowledge.

[One Man Army]

Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji!

in reply to the post regarding a tree for 4500 years or wat not, the fact is, do we know how long there has been human existance? do we know how bad deeds could be to obtain that life time? how do we know that the life souce isnt the leaves and not the tree?? its all Gods play! theres accounts where people can actually remember previouse life times. i have a recording of a muslim ghost, speaking of his previous lives, and saying what dharam raaj commanded him! ( Judge in the court of the lord). yes human bacteria could be a life. it doesnt matter. its all Gods play. what so ever he wishes to do, will happen. Allah knows best! Dhan Guru Nanak ji, to Sri Guru Granth sahib ji.. nothing but the principles of humanity has been taught to the world. the depths of the afterlife. the depths of Gurbani itself! and to understand this, you need to experience this. Guru Nanak never said his path was the right way, and everyone else was wrong. however with love he helped people to see how they could be better muslims, and follow Muhammads message how he intended. and the Same goes for hindus, and the rest of the human race! equailty of all humans. equal rights, love for all, conquring your mind, whilst living a normal life. being a good person, and all ways with each and every breath uttering allahs name (for those of you that will argue that this is not possible, it is, with the breath) i know some high spirtitual Gursikhs that there is recordings of, and heard myself that there is the name of God being uttered by parts of there body!!!believe it or not!

[Hanif_Revert]

Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji!

theres accounts where people can actually remember previouse life times. i have a recording of a muslim ghost, speaking of his previous lives, and saying what dharam raaj commanded him! ( Judge in the court of the lord).

i know some high spirtitual Gursikhs that there is recordings of, and heard myself that there is the name of God being uttered by parts of there body!!!believe it or not!

These mystical experiences can all be explained by the presence of Jinn. An unseen race of creatures that live longer than us, can take the form of living creatures and can posses humans.
There are some of the Jinn that make it their business to mislead man from the path of true worship.

Allah knows best

[Hanif_Revert]

Do sikhs bilieve there are 8.4 million life forms?


http://www.sikhworld.co.uk/page32.html

[One Man Army]

they believe the soul must pass through 8.4 million lives to reach the human life.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Do sikhs bilieve there are 8.4 million life forms?


http://www.sikhworld.co.uk/page32.html

You may ask where we get this figure from....

This Big Bang... the explosion which is defined by scientists as The Big Bang Theory results in the creation of the Cosmos... a Cosmos consisting of many universes and each universe consisting of many galaxies and Milky Ways... and one galaxy consisting of billions of stars and solar systems... and one star like the sun having a few planets revolving around it. And out of the many planets... Our planet Mother Earth... the moment it has conducive environment worthy of living... the Souls manifest one after another and starts the journey of life on Mother Earth!

The Big Bang Theory... the Concept in itself is irrefutable and undeniable for the basic reason that no other Theory or Concept holds good. The Enlightened masters like Mahavira, Gautama Buddha, Guru Nanak, Jesus Christ and Prophet Mohammed knew of this irrefutable Concept and Theory (The Big Bang Theory) the moment they became enlightened. For an Enlightened Soul to be able to understand the Concept of Spirituality from the beginning to the end of Cosmos becomes a reality.

The Big Bang Theory has its roots in the Concept that the entire purified Souls combine together to form something we know as God the Almighty. And this God the Almighty unable to contain itself for long because of the inherent massive energy within explodes with a Big Bang and this results in the start of a new Cosmos... a new journey!

Proceeding further we need to understand that these purified Souls (Atmans) which have now scattered all over the Cosmos start gaining impurities on their cosmic journey. And it is only after the dross within is removed from the Souls that they shall become free forever from manifesting further bodies.

As the whole Cosmos cools down gradually... the system gives birth to many planets and out of these planets some of them become conducive for beginning of life with passage of time. And what is this life we are talking of? Are we talking of the insect life, the plant life, the animal life or the world of human beings themselves?

Every Soul (Atman) like the metal embedded in any metal ore cannot separate itself from the impurities contained therein. And to cleanse itself of the impurities... every Soul (Atman) requires a body. And thus starts the cosmic journey of a Soul (an Atman)!

The journey of this Soul (Atman) starts as an amoeba (single cell formation)... The first manifestation in the cosmic journey of 8.4 million manifestations... ending with the form of a human being (the last stage in the series of various manifestations) finally to gain Salvation and come back to its original pristine form. The moment cosmic journey of all Jiva (life forms) end with the Dissolution of the Cosmos... starts a new Cosmos confirming The Big Bang Theory.

The journey from first manifestation to the 8.4 millionth manifestation explains the Concept of Evolution as detailed by Charles Darwin. A long cosmic journey of 8.4 million manifestations and a total period of 96.4 million earthly years is necessitated before the Soul can come back to its original pristine form and it is in the last stages as a human being that the Soul shall gain Salvation... liberation from the cycle of various manifestations for ever and finally become free until the start of a new Cosmos with a new Big Bang (The Big Bang Theory).

Science is baccking the claims SGGS makes!

[Hanif_Revert]

The journey of this Soul (Atman) starts as an amoeba (single cell formation)... The first manifestation in the cosmic journey of 8.4 million manifestations... ending with the form of a human being (the last stage in the series of various manifestations) finally to gain Salvation and come back to its original pristine form. The moment cosmic journey of all Jiva (life forms) end with the Dissolution of the Cosmos... starts a new Cosmos confirming The Big Bang Theory.

The journey from first manifestation to the 8.4 millionth manifestation explains the Concept of Evolution as detailed by Charles Darwin. A long cosmic journey of 8.4 million manifestations and a total period of 96.4 million earthly years is necessitated before the Soul can come back to its original pristine form and it is in the last stages as a human being that the Soul shall gain Salvation... liberation from the cycle of various manifestations for ever and finally become free until the start of a new Cosmos with a new Big Bang (The Big Bang Theory).

Science is baccking the claims SGGS makes!

We wont start on evolution because this theory is completly false and must have been covered on a thread somewhere on this Forum.
Big bang is also stated in the Quran:

The heavens and the earth were one before they were ripped apart. Life started in the water and living things are mostly water [21:30].

The heavens are expanding [51:47]. Modern science tells us that the universe was started from a singularity. The pictures taken by Edwin Hubbell in Mount Wilson observatory in 1929 showed that the universe was expanding which led to the Big Bang theory

So 96.4 million years from start to end?
And if we do not attain Sach khand in this human life we start again?

[AvarAllahNoor]

We wont start on evolution because this theory is completly false and must have been covered on a thread somewhere on this Forum.
Big bang is also stated in the Quran:

The heavens and the earth were one before they were ripped apart. Life started in the water and living things are mostly water [21:30].

The heavens are expanding [51:47]. Modern science tells us that the universe was started from a singularity. The pictures taken by Edwin Hubbell in Mount Wilson observatory in 1929 showed that the universe was expanding which led to the Big Bang theory

So 96.4 million years from start to end?
And if we do not attain Sach khand in this human life we start again?

Re-birth....

[Hanif_Revert]

Re-birth....

As.......

[AvarAllahNoor]

As.......

Whatever Allah decides, silly as it may appear, he does not consult me in these matters! :okay:

[Hanif_Revert]

Whatever Allah decides, silly as it may appear, he does not consult me in these matters! :okay:

So he didnt write in the Granth Sahib (the apparent gudience for mankind) - What would happen after our one in 8.4million chance?

[AvarAllahNoor]

So he didnt write in the Granth Sahib (the apparent gudience for mankind) - What would happen after our one in 8.4million chance?

Yes, for the billionth time. You re-emerge with Akal Purakh (God)

[One Man Army]

you remerge with Allah if you have done good deeds, and have remebered God in this life. lived honest live. conqured 5 evils. or else you are sent back into the cycle of life and death. this is the only chance in the 8.4 million lives to break free. or else you undergo the cycle once again

[Hanif_Revert]

Thats quite a few people going to be going through the 90 odd million tear re-cycle again after their chance then. Poor guys.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Thats quite a few people going to be going through the 90 odd million tear re-cycle again after their chance then. Poor guys.

Yup, it's the consequences of disobeying God - What will sinners according to Islam be up against?

[Curaezipirid]

hi

today I saw a Sikh man belong
walking along
wearing an orange turban
with a red shirt on

my mind instantly associatively connected he
with the Dreaming belonging to King Solomon
of phoenix strong
Why?

true this is happening to me
despite being in poetry
what is it his dress has signified in reality?

thanking all answers formally before framed of kind of mind
Sikhi truly the believing
but why?

Is a long kind of try
to explain this day of my
wonderment that I
but for the last every prophesy
is that repeating kind
never ending until fulfilling
so shall I?

Alaykumuassalamu wa Ramathuallahi wa Rabarakathuhu

[AvarAllahNoor]

hi

today I saw a Sikh man belong
walking along
wearing an orange turban
with a red shirt on

my mind instantly associatively connected he
with the Dreaming belonging to King Solomon
of phoenix strong
Why?

true this is happening to me
despite being in poetry
what is it his dress has signified in reality?

thanking all answers formally before framed of kind of mind
Sikhi truly the believing
but why?

Is a long kind of try
to explain this day of my
wonderment that I
but for the last every prophesy
is that repeating kind
never ending until fulfilling
so shall I?

Alaykumuassalamu wa Ramathuallahi wa Rabarakathuhu

Once again your post confuses me sister.:cry:

[sikh]

hi i m a sikh..or may b i m not , because with what guru nanak dev jee said , it is too difficult to be either a hindu, a muslim or a sikh. Guru Nanak Dev ji wasn't a hindu or a muslim, he said " na hum hindu na musalman"..... i registered myself here at the forums , to make a simple request , i've observed that a lot of people would simply debate forever and do a little with what allah tells us . sikh kepp meditating not for five times but believe u me 24 hrs, they don't bother at all as to what other people have to say about their religion or other things, they will keep on praying . i've knowm muslims, who were close to Guru Nanak ... and all that they were interested in was praising lord........ if i said anything that hurt ya people , i m sorry , i will try to give u atleast a clear picture of what sikhism is all about.
thanks
a sikh
still learning

[Muhammad]

Greetings sikh,

Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I have removed your posts in this thread as I felt that they were breaking our forum rule:

#15. Promoting Religions other than Islam:
While interfaith discussions are allowed, promoting another religion is not allowed on the discussion board. This discussion board was created to promote Islam, not another religion. There are many other discussion boards on the Web which you can promote your religion other than Islam.

This thread is about answering questions about Sikhism and having discussions of this nature. It is not for blatant "promoting" of the religion.

Thank you for your cooperation :).

[sikh]

Once again your post confuses me sister.:cry:

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih bhain jee

some of my posts were deleted bhain jee i got a message saying that my posts have been deleted but bhain jee i wasnt promoting anything bhain jee,
i was writing it from all my heart and i said the truth ,,,,,, to the posters here i have to say something,, i may never post here again coz i was trying to throw light on what sikhism is and how we too love muslims but thats just not on i would rather pray then sit on my pc for an hour and then see posts deleted ....
i was rather carefull that i should not write anything which'll make anybody upset ...... why was this done ...but yes it is allah's raza and looks like i dun feel like being over here
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih

[sikh]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih jee
i was upset , anyway i love u all
u know m a member of forums which r so very bful sikh forums , and they never edit anything even posted by muslims and they believe that everone should be allowed to say truth , and i was doing just that . I look forward to atleast explained in detail as to what is propmoting>>> so that i can b cautious about the same
still learning
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih jee

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

I am sorry if that is how you feel, but I feel that you are going too far into how you feel about Sikhism to the extent that you are promoting it, as opposed to simply explaining and throwing light on it.

This is not to say that we cannot maintain a peaceful relationship on the forum and engage in much discussion, so I hope you will stay with us.

Peace.

P.S. We do not edit things based upon religion, rather we edit according to our forum rules which can be viewed here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/faq/foru..._liforum_rules

[sikh]

veer jee.. i just said please do encourage anyone u see or meet to do repeated simran of either allah or waheguroo or raam (upto u)... but its important we should be reciting allah or waheguru or raam all the time...and one thing which i added was that ...many people believe that sikhism is the same as hinduism but in gurbaani paatshah made very clear that raam being talked abt is not of the same clad as seeta and all but the raam who recites and resides in all....
do u still think i m promoting ..anyway ...god bless us all...
kamaal ai karaamatay kaayam kareem
still learning
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih jee

[Muhammad]

Hello again,

veer jee.. i just said please do encourage anyone u see or meet to do repeated simran of either allah or waheguroo or raam (upto u)... but its important we should be reciting allah or waheguru or raam all the time...

Well this is just the problem, you see, I don't believe in "simran" or "waheguroo", so I am not going to encourage anyone to read those. I would only encourage repeated recitation and reflection on the Qur'an. By asking people to do what you have just said, you are promoting sikhism because not everybody believes in those scriptures. We respect your right to believe in them of course, and we don't mind discussing them, but there is no need for any of this "encouragement".

and one thing which i added was that ...many people believe that sikhism is the same as hinduism but in gurbaani paatshah made very clear that raam being talked abt is not of the same clad as seeta and all but the raam who recites and resides in all....

That's fine. Thank you for clarifying your beliefs :).

Peace.

[sikh]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih jee
waheguru
u made urself clear .My intention was that if anybody is muslim , he may say allah, or if somebody is hindu .. he may say raam.
i m stupid
still learning
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih jee

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Thank you again for understanding. I see what you are saying now and I am sorry if I misunderstood you before. Let us all strive hard to please God.

Peace :).

[sikh]

he is our living guru . we refer to him as not "it".. sorry
still learning
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih jee

Sorry if i haven't been asking in a respectful manner, i been trying. Apologies

Surely if Sikhism is for all mankind then it is for muslims too :?


See you have a common misconception. Muslims have 3 types of prayers. Theres the formal prayer where we prostrate etc 5 times a day. Now that is a command from God to pray 5 times a day, and since most likely most muslims will be praying he has ordained that wer have a common direction to pray in, it is a Kiblah- a direction. Even if somehow God forbid it was blown up or something, we would still be praying in that direction. People in mecca in the msoque around Kabah sometimes pray on the top floor where it is above Kabah, so they aren't even looking at it, but they are praying in that direction for unity since everyone else also is and simply because God has ordered nus to do it. If God was to order us to do otherwise we would pray in another direction. In fact Muslims at the beginning used to pray to Musjid Al Aqsa in Jerusalem, all of them, as it was a direction for that time and for purposes of unity they all had a common direction to face. It later got abbrogated anmd now they all face Mecca

Now we have two other forms of worship that we havent been commanded to do by God at all. And nowhere does it say for them that you have to face Kabah. These two other forms of worship are Dua and Dhikr. In ours Duas we just pray directly to God in our own language raising our hands up. In Dhikr of Allah we just praise God continuously. Now surely if Kabah was the residing place of God we would also have to face Kabah for that. But since its not obligatory to do these prayers, its unlilely others will be doing them same time as you so unity doesn't exist so no need to pray in that direction

Now back to your point about Guru Nanek. No man in his right mind would have said God lives in kabah. Only children at a youbng age believe that. Even muslims with the lowest IQs today will know God doesn't physically live there. Now what i think happened was the Arabs got offended by Nanak for pointing his feet towards the Kabah. In arab culture even today its offensive and disrespectful to point your feet at someone. And since we consider the Kabah to be holy its disliked to point our feet at it.
Now how about the SGGS. You put that at a high place don't you. Why don't you put it on the floor? Does God reside there? Of course not, but yet you still treat it with respect and have it at a high place

[sikh]

And Guru Nanak Ji received just that, but not via an angel, but directly from God.

We do not believe in the Guru as a form of worship he uttered the words of God. And God is what we worship!

waheguru ... gur parmesar eko jaan..jo tis bhavai so parwaan.. ehna samajh nahee lagnee..but aapan tan sach uchaarnaa hai na

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Hey I can understand you. i get Avar, dont worry :D

[AvarAllahNoor]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih bhain jee

some of my posts were deleted bhain jee i got a message saying that my posts have been deleted but bhain jee i wasnt promoting anything bhain jee,
i

Keri teri bainjee?? I'm a bloke Khalsa ji!:)

[AvarAllahNoor]

Hey I can understand you. i get Avar, dont worry :D

I go away for a few days and we have a newbie :giggling:

[sikh]

dhan guru teg bahadar saheb
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih bhai saheb jee
veer ji u a member with ss or waheguroo forums?

[AvarAllahNoor]

waheguru ... gur parmesar eko jaan..jo tis bhavai so parwaan.. ehna samajh nahee lagnee..but aapan tan sach uchaarnaa hai na

lol Haan veeera!

Bani Sat Sat Kar Jano Gursikho Har Karta App Muh Kadai

(Know The Verses To Be True, Because The Creator Himself Makes Me Utter Them)

[PCJS]

Greetings sikh,

Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I have removed your posts in this thread as I felt that they were breaking our forum rule:

#15. Promoting Religions other than Islam:
While interfaith discussions are allowed, promoting another religion is not allowed on the discussion board. This discussion board was created to promote Islam, not another religion. There are many other discussion boards on the Web which you can promote your religion other than Islam.

This thread is about answering questions about Sikhism and having discussions of this nature. It is not for blatant "promoting" of the religion.

Thank you for your cooperation :).

If you don't believe in promoting any other religion, what makes you think that you have right to talk about religions?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Thats forum rules...and hes the moderator...
like he said, other religions can come up during dialogues. Theres a difference in talking about it and promoting it.

[PCJS]

Thats forum rules...and hes the moderator...
like he said, other religions can come up during dialogues. Theres a difference in talking about it and promoting it.

You must not discus other religions unless you know absolute truth about other religions. Revealing the truth about other religions is same as promoting other religions. So since one is not allowed to promote other religions, it's unlikely that truth can be revealed about other religions.

I don't think it would be allowed in Islam to discuss something you don't know the absolute truth about. So you might be going against Islam by allowing people to discuss something they don't know absolute truth about.

I would also like to know why ISDhillon is not allowed to post anymore here.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Thats not true actually. how do u expect to learn if u do not discuss? Its not the same. When ur discussing about a certain religion, u ask questions also. Promoting is like advertising. Discussion involves asking questions or having an earnest conversation so we can learn and remove misconceptions.

[Saajan]

Sat Sri Akaal Bhenji,

Guru Nanak was a nice man, and he mixed hinduism and islam to avoid conflict between both parties. Its sad he failedf to see the truth in islam and used alot of quranic verses in some of his books, especially abt the sun and the moon being a sphere?

Some of his teachings are good. Like he taught hindoos to forsake teir silly superstitions, like in one story hindoos were pouring water in a field saying that it will reach the dead, Guru Nanak upon seeing this took some water and threw the other side n said to the hindoos that by throwing water here it will reach his padi fields.

But alot of his teachings are from the Quran.

Picking bits and pieces does not give you the correct picture of anything. You want to know more of Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, pls visit this site and remove all doubts. http://www.info-sikh.com/PageNan1.html

Incase you wish to know more, I suggest you go to http://www.info-sikh.com/index.html


Have a nice day!!


Saajan Malaysia

[Saajan]

I would also like to know why ISDhillon is not allowed to post anymore here.

Yes Veer Ji I wonder why?? If he has insulted Islam, please show us proof.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yes Veer Ji I wonder why?? If he has insulted Islam, please show us proof.

It's the fear of proving people to be wrong. Nobody wants to be told the religion they follow is not the correct path, hence why it is deemed necessary to edit., when facts are presented.

Gur Fateh!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Gee i wonder why u guys keep insulting! quit it already.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Gee i wonder why u guys keep insulting! quit it already.

:cry: :X

[PCJS]

Thats not true actually. how do u expect to learn if u do not discuss? Its not the same. When ur discussing about a certain religion, u ask questions also. Promoting is like advertising. Discussion involves asking questions or having an earnest conversation so we can learn and remove misconceptions.

Once again, if nobody is allowed entirely explain any religion other than Islam as it's considered promoting religion. I don't believe that person in question aka Sikh tried advertizing Sikhism. He probably simply expained Sikhi to an extent where the moderators thought he was promoting Sikhism. No we don't advertize our religion.

So it's wrong to talk about a religion without letting someone entirely explain it as this way people can't find out the whole truth. Not telling the whole and not allowing someone to tell the whole truth is another way of lying.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I only answered what u said, cuz i dunno remember what Sikh said. I only mentioned the difference between the two. If u honestly have a problem with this, discuss it with the mod. i cant do anything for u.

Peace

[جوري]

Haven't been here in a while.. whatever happened to the sikh member who reverted to Islam who used to write in this thread? is he still with us (hanif revert) has he changed his name? There was another fellow who was asking about other Sikh reverts and thought he was the only one-- do they know of one another?
thanks

[wasup]

asalam alaikum

ive been reading this thread over the last few days and i must admit i
am bow MORE baffled with the teachings of sikhism NOW THEN BEFORE!!!!




YOU MUST UNDERSTAND that every misunderstood religion needs oxygen to
promote it's beleifs.Through the entire thread there is the constant reference to the gurus(TEACHERS) as being prophets!!!!
Now that would mean that they are favoured by and guided by ALLAH????

[B] OK SO WHY is it that the only sikhs are punjabis/indian????Can you even give me one figure from an unbiased source which says otherwise!!![/B]

[wasup]

CAN it be that ALLAH just prefers the 0.000001 % of creation which happens to live in punjab.There seems to be a hint of prejudice there to me!!!!
where are all of us poor humans supposed to go.The EUROPEANS,AFRICANS,AMERICANS.ASIANS.From the eastern to the western hemisphere we have no salvation because ALLAH chose a handful of sikhs.
Im not trying to be rude but if you look at other cultures like rastafarianism,and inhabitants who live in secluded areas such as africa or austrailia(ABORIGINIES),THEY TOO HAVE THE SAME BELEIF....IN THERE OWN VERY SMALL RELIGION who we the rest of the world do not seem to know about!!!

However in islam you have a universal mix of humans from the entire globe!!!53 islamic countries by the grace of ALLAH and you can't seem to create one???Where is the divine intervention on behalf of sikhs????

SORRY if this may seem harsh but islam is rapidly spreading across the civilised world..but it seems no-one even has a clue about sikhism!!:cry: :cry:

[One Man Army]

who said that the only sikhs are punjabis? or indians??????

[One Man Army]

the population of christians in the world is larger then islamic. does allah favour the 2nd largest religion in the world? or the largest???? you shud see in america, malasia, new zeland, uk, canada, austrailia, etc the growing sikh population my friend. Sikhs dont make it an objective to try an convert the world. if people want to follow sikhi, then fine, do it. but we dont try brainwashing and forcing the rest of the world to try and do so aswel.

and no, sikhs are not just punjabis, the population of white sikhs is growing rapidly my friend, as well as the population of black sikhs. if u need sources, let me know. these sikhs that are reverting are seeing the message of humanity that the Gurus have given. shown the difference and a direct path to Allah.

things like this is what makes islam grow so fast:

http://www.clipmarks.com/clipmark/56...-BCF090089BD2/

and this was the 1st link from a google search.....

[wasup]

IM SORRY.....IT'S NEWS TO ME.The above countries you mentioned about converting to sikhism,,,are you not getting mixed up with the sikhs who emigrate to these countries to look for jobs and settle there?????
I was in a conversation with a sikh friend before a couple of months back.He mentioned that a lot of sikhs were living in dubai,malaysia,america etc.I was visualising oriental/white caucasian looking men and women wearing turbans,bangles and all the other symbolic items in sikhism.Then he showed me photos of sikh temples in these countries.MAYBE my eyesight is going a bit weak at this tender age but they all seemed to look like your average punjabi!!!!Dark brown skin and normal indian sub continent features!!!:rolleyes:

Maybe the rastafarian brothers may also start to say
"o look....our religion has spread from jamica to the uk/america etc"!!!!
upon observation we note it's not conversion it's called EMIGRATION!!!:rolleyes:

[One Man Army]

http://www.mrsikhnet.com/

nope brother, no emigration. do ur research before start chatin it..

http://www.mrsikhnet.com/index.php/archive/

[جوري]

Not to interrupt this dialogue but Islam will be the dominant religion as prophesied. We are now 1.8 billion........and again we are described as fickle foam on the ocean floor by the prophet (PBUH) I don't think it matters to G-D if you are 1 or one billion. All that is good is from G-D... All that is bad is from us (our own doing)
peace!

[One Man Army]

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.p...12301&t=112301

[One Man Army]

I don't think it matters to G-D if you are 1 or one billion.

:smile:

[wasup]

:imsad

You have not responded in time ULTIMATE FICTION.Maybe it is a sunday afternoon and you are ringing all your sikh cousins in MALAYSIA,AFRICA,AMERICA,RUSSIA??????:rolleyes:

If that is the case give my regards to your aunts and uncles.......i've got some proper things to discuss.:rant:

BEEN A PLEASURE.

[جوري]

Say what happened to Hanif revert?

[One Man Army]

looks like wasups realised he's been proved wrong. im not blood related to white and black people, but anyhow, i will give them ur regards...

[cali dude]

Religionists are like salespeople. The one who is honest doesn't sell much but the crooks sell a lot. Sikhi is pure spirituality and only one in million can grasp it.

[One Man Army]

i agree, truth is more difficult to follow, people always take easy roots

[sikh]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih..
waheguru ....how r all u lovin people doing...
sorry its been a while ..but hopefuly guru saheb'll bless me with all ur people's blessed vision again
waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih jee
still learning(not even .0000000000000000001%sikh :-(....)

[sikh]

Religionists are like salespeople. The one who is honest doesn't sell much but the crooks sell a lot. Sikhi is pure spirituality and only one in million can grasp it.

i cant :'(

[TABS19]

Cali

Isn't that what is turning young Sikhs away, because they can't understand it. I too found that to find out about Islam is more easier than Sikhism.
Maybe because they get Swaab for doing dawah? Maybe Sikhs don't try to convert others as it doesn't work on the "brownie point system" where you will be rewarded to help someone embrace Islam?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Cali

Isn't that what is turning young Sikhs away, because they can't understand it. I too found that to find out about Islam is more easier than Sikhism.
Maybe because they get Swaab for doing dawah? Maybe Sikhs don't try to convert others as it doesn't work on the "brownie point system" where you will be rewarded to help someone embrace Islam?

We want Quality not Quantity. Numbers mean zilch:D

[AvarAllahNoor]

:imsad

You have not responded in time ULTIMATE FICTION.Maybe it is a sunday afternoon and you are ringing all your sikh cousins in MALAYSIA,AFRICA,AMERICA,RUSSIA??????:rolleyes:

If that is the case give my regards to your aunts and uncles.......i've got some proper things to discuss.:rant:

BEEN A PLEASURE.

Pardon? :rolleyes:

[TABS19]

AvarAllahNoor

I really admire you and the way you defend Sikhism. I wanted to send you a PM (but as a limited member so couldn't). However, I feel that young Sikhs are lacking knowledge in their own religion and can't answer questions that are asked. What are we doing as Sikhs to ensure that there is Quality?

What does Gurdwara's do to ensure that EVERYONE understands Sikhi?

[One Man Army]

gurfateh jio

there are many things that have regenerated in local communities putting sikhi back into the hearts of the youth. personally i think the fault is the older generation. sikhi seemed to have skipped a generation. most of our parents are not khalsa, and have become trapped in settling into this country, and making money. but now i feel that things are turning around. sikhi is a difficult path to follow:

Bgqw kI cwl inrwlI ]

bhagathaa kee chaal niraalee ||

The lifestyle of the devotees is unique and distinct.



cwlw inrwlI Bgqwh kyrI ibKm mwrig clxw ]

chaalaa niraalee bhagathaah kaeree bikham maarag chalanaa ||

The devotees' lifestyle is unique and distinct; they follow the most difficult path.



lbu loBu AhMkwru qij iqRsnw bhuqu nwhI bolxw ]

lab lobh aha(n)kaar thaj thrisanaa bahuth naahee bolanaa ||

They renounce greed, avarice, egotism and desire; they do not talk too much.



KMinAhu iqKI vwlhu inkI eyqu mwrig jwxw ]

kha(n)niahu thikhee vaalahu nikee eaeth maarag jaanaa ||

The path they take is sharper than a double-edged sword, and finer than a hair.


this is what Guru Amar daas jee says about those people who decide to follow the path of Sikhi.

[TABS19]

I agree with you that now the passion for Sikhi is returning. My parents were not religious before, but now are Amritdhari's and hopefully my younger brothers will be more educated than myself or my sister was.

In some ways it's made me more determined to find out what Sikhism is all about. Islam is being spoon-fed to me at the moment by my brother-in-law and the questions I ask are being answered. However, with Sikhism it's a completely different. It's not dogmatic.

[AvarAllahNoor]

AvarAllahNoor

I really admire you and the way you defend Sikhism. I wanted to send you a PM (but as a limited member so couldn't). However, I feel that young Sikhs are lacking knowledge in their own religion and can't answer questions that are asked. What are we doing as Sikhs to ensure that there is Quality?

What does Gurdwara's do to ensure that EVERYONE understands Sikhi?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsal Waheguru Je Ke Fateh

Well, depending on where you go. A few Gurdwaras in the Midlands, have now installed large screens in the main prayer halls, which have the SGGS verses projected up on the screen in english. You'd be surpirsed how much this has lured the youth in because now they understand what is being read/said.

Gurdwaras have now also taken the intiative to spread Sikhi to other people, rather than keep it in the 'community' We as Sikhs, should not be scared to participate in such activities. - A great quote by JFK comes to mind.

''Don't ask what the country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country'' So apply it to Sikhi - ''Don't ask what the Panth can do for you, Ask what you can do for the Panth'' :D

[TABS19]

AvarAllahNoor

I'm from East London and I find my local Gurdwara's are more geared towards the bibbia.

Understanding the Guru Granth Sahib is the issue. Most youth do not even understand basic Punjabi.

''Don't ask what the country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country'' So apply it to Sikhi - ''Don't ask what the Panth can do for you, Ask what you can do for the Panth''

I like that quote! So true. I've had many learned Muslim people teaching me about Islam, but because I never got the same from Sikhism I mistakenly thought because they did not have the answers. What have I done to? :? Nothing really.....something to think about hey?

[Saajan]

Gurfateh Parwan Karni Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh,

Bhai Sahib Jio, Whenever a person yearn for something( if he /she is serious), he/she goes all out for it. Remember guruju said. "Charan sharan Gur ek Paindah jai chall sat gur Kot paindah aageh hoi leth hai...." You take a step forward towards the path Of Guru...Guruji come a thousand step to embrace you and take you into his fold...So its you who take the step and dont blame others. The Path is difficult but the end is sweet.

Fateh!!

[AvarAllahNoor]

AvarAllahNoor

I'm from East London and I find my local Gurdwara's are more geared towards the bibbia.

Understanding the Guru Granth Sahib is the issue. Most youth do not even understand basic Punjabi.



I like that quote! So true. I've had many learned Muslim people teaching me about Islam, but because I never got the same from Sikhism I mistakenly thought because they did not have the answers. What have I done to? :? Nothing really.....something to think about hey?

Yes, but although it is down to our parents to educate us on our religion, what is stopping YOU or anybody else from picking up a book, or via net from reading up on it. It's what i did a the age of 15 - I've been approached by JW, Muslims and even Christians about what their relgion is and how it is ''better'' I'm able to defend and answer all questions in relation to Sikhi.

You can only be lured in by other people when you're not educated in your own. If you have a passion about something you explore it. Same with Sikhi, read and learn!

Gur Fateh!

[AvarAllahNoor]

AvarAllahNoor

I'm from East London and I find my local Gurdwara's are more geared towards the bibbia.

Understanding the Guru Granth Sahib is the issue. Most youth do not even understand basic Punjabi.

What do you mean at bibian? Is it a woman Gurudwara only? (which would be odd)

Parents fail here big time - People are shocked when I start speaking panjabi, because they are not used to seeing anyone young who can speak it fluently.

I learned the Bani in english, if you have a passion like I said before, you pursue it. Just as you would do a sport, you wouldn't wait for your mum or dad to say ''go and play football' or say on the Xbox, would you? So why not learn it yourself and educate the rest!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Gurfateh Parwan Karni Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh,

Bhai Sahib Jio, Whenever a person yearn for something( if he /she is serious), he/she goes all out for it. Remember guruju said. "Charan sharan Gur ek Paindah jai chall sat gur Kot paindah aageh hoi leth hai...." You take a step forward towards the path Of Guru...Guruji come a thousand step to embrace you and take you into his fold...So its you who take the step and dont blame others. The Path is difficult but the end is sweet.

Fateh!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Couldn't have said it better myeslf brother! :statisfie

[TABS19]

Ok Veero don't need to bite my head off!!!


(Sorry I should have added papa's and bibbia). There are classes that teach you to read the Guru Granth Sahib, but obviously to do so you need to be able to read Punjabi, hence it fails to attract the youth.

Typical example (to show my point)…my Muslim friends used to go to the mosque straight after school, but I used to go home, because there is no such provisions at the Gurdwara. There are Punjabi classes, but nothing where children are explained the meaning of the Guru Granth Sahib. So that maybe contributes to why many Sikhs do not have the knowledge. Being taught religion at a younger age does help. However I agree when you say what stopping me now.

I'm quite lucky in the sense I can read, write and speak Punjabi. FYI I have studied the Guru Granth Sahib and now when I go to the Gurdwara I can understand what is being recited. However both of you have said if you have a desire to learn about Sikhism, go and learn it and not to blame others. I have got tons of books that go in to detail about the meanings of Guru Granth Sahib and make sense, but my issue is that other than the Rehat Maryada I can't find anything that answers my questions about the social aspect of Sikhism. Like Islam has hadiths on questions for our day to day life, what about Sikhism. (Can you recommend any good books to read.?) Not sure if the moderators might think Sikhism is being promoted here, so by all mean PM me.

I just feel that the "community spirit" for Sikhism is lost. If someone is talking about reverting to another religion we don't ask why, we just turn our backs on them and say "Good luck to you". As learned Sikhs, do you not feel that you should at least guide someone who is does not have the knowledge on Sikhism? Why have the knowledge if you are not going to share it with others. Is this to boost your own ego? Didn't Guru Nanak Dev Ji not travel to teach about Sikhism?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Is this to boost your own ego? Didn't Guru Nanak Dev Ji not travel to teach about Sikhism?

Indeed he did. Sikhi is a missionary religion. Most white converts can be found in the USA. Where Harbhajan Singh Khalsa took it upon himself to spread Sikhi. And very well he did. They are in their thousands!

As for Hadiths, we have Bhai Gurdas ji, who in his verses hold the key top the SGGS! I'll find you the link so you can have a read of it. - Our parents generation failed, they see they were wrong now, but the youth have taken over. A new Sikhi has been nurtured. Most Gurdwaras i attend are full of youth, they particpate in events catered for the young. So things have changed, should have happened sooner, but hey at least they've woken up now!

Times are changing veeera, and people are embracing Sikhi, it's the religion of the future. - If you want to make a change go and get involved in the Gurdwaras, don't let old fuddy duddy men tell you to go away, we are the future and we shall make Sikhi Flourish!! :D

Gur Fateh Khalsa Jio

[TABS19]

Times are changing veeera, and people are embracing Sikhi, it's the religion of the future. - If you want to make a change go and get involved in the Gurdwaras, don't let old fuddy duddy men tell you to go away, we are the future and we shall make Sikhi Flourish!!

BTW I'm not a veera, I'm a bibbo!!:D

I would appreciate the links, but now I now where to look, I can do something about it.

[------]

edit - sorry

[One Man Army]

penji heres link for translations of bhai Gurdas jees vaars,

http://searchgurbani.com/main.php?bo...n&action=index

there are many pratan sikh books that indicate sikh history.

for good books on sikhi you need punjabi really. but id recommend saay kheniya by Sant Baba Harnam Singh jee, rampur khera wale, as a informative book on sikhi, its availale in english aswel!

or may be Bhai Randheer Singh jee, bhai Rama Singh jees books..

if need any info or places where to get them from just pm me!

[TABS19]

penji heres link for translations of bhai Gurdas jees vaars,

http://searchgurbani.com/main.php?bo...n&action=index

there are many pratan sikh books that indicate sikh history.

for good books on sikhi you need punjabi really. but id recommend saay kheniya by Sant Baba Harnam Singh jee, rampur khera wale, as a informative book on sikhi, its availale in english aswel!

or may be Bhai Randheer Singh jee, bhai Rama Singh jees books..

if need any info or places where to get them from just pm me!

Thanks Veerji

I can read Punjabi, however I just feel that I may have a better understanding of it it English.

Thank you for your help. Unfortunately I can't PM as I am a limited member. Need 50 post...only on 34!!!

[One Man Army]

lol, better get posting then! only 16 left...



http://www.boss-uk.org/stall/books/

[TABS19]

mmmm.......only 15 left;D

[cali dude]

Cali

Isn't that what is turning young Sikhs away, because they can't understand it. I too found that to find out about Islam is more easier than Sikhism.
Maybe because they get Swaab for doing dawah? Maybe Sikhs don't try to convert others as it doesn't work on the "brownie point system" where you will be rewarded to help someone embrace Islam?

Sorry sis, I think the main thing that could be turning people away is the negative attitude among Sikhs. I don't know why but instead of encouraging people, the religious fanatics among Sikhs spend more time trying to find faults in others and tell them that they are not Sikhs, even though we know nobody is a perfect Sikh, not even those fanatics themselves.

Sikhi is very simple. Sikhi = Humanity + God...

[TABS19]

the religious fanatics among Sikhs spend more time trying to find faults in others and tell them that they are Sikhs

They also forgotten the basics....one should not have Hamaui/ego.

[sikh]

AvarAllahNoor

I really admire you and the way you defend Sikhism. I wanted to send you a PM (but as a limited member so couldn't). However, I feel that young Sikhs are lacking knowledge in their own religion and can't answer questions that are asked. What are we doing as Sikhs to ensure that there is Quality?

What does Gurdwara's do to ensure that EVERYONE understands Sikhi?

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fataih
jin har paaya tinhai lukaaya..
amrit har peewatay sada thir thir theewatay ..bikhai ban feeka jaaneya..
trying to say that u may not have met a gursikh kid...u may have met a sikh though..

[sikh]

Indeed he did. Sikhi is a missionary religion. Most white converts can be found in the USA. Where Harbhajan Singh Khalsa took it upon himself to spread Sikhi. And very well he did. They are in their thousands!

As for Hadiths, we have Bhai Gurdas ji, who in his verses hold the key top the SGGS! I'll find you the link so you can have a read of it. - Our parents generation failed, they see they were wrong now, but the youth have taken over. A new Sikhi has been nurtured. Most Gurdwaras i attend are full of youth, they particpate in events catered for the young. So things have changed, should have happened sooner, but hey at least they've woken up now!

Times are changing veeera, and people are embracing Sikhi, it's the religion of the future. - If you want to make a change go and get involved in the Gurdwaras, don't let old fuddy duddy men tell you to go away, we are the future and we shall make Sikhi Flourish!! :D

Gur Fateh Khalsa Jio

bhai saheb just felt like saying
kya sauna kya jaagna gurmukh tay parwaan ...jina saas giraas na wisrai say pooray purakh pradhaan
karmee satgur paaiai andin lagai dheyaan
tin kee sangat mil rahann....dargeh paai maan
saunday waho waho uchrai ....uthday bhe waho karay ....
saunday waho waho uchrai uthday bhe waho karay .......
waheguru waheguru waheguru ..............................................
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
..
.................................................. .........

[sikh]

meditate upon allah now....dont let the chance go ...do it now....
when u wake up
when u r sleeping when u r walking do it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,.
.
.
..
.................
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
.............