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Andaraawus
12-28-2005, 11:06 AM
THE QUR’AN AND VIOLENCE

Dr Robert Morey says on pg.39 of his book Islamic Invasion:

This should not be a surprise to anyone because Islam not only condones such violence (talking about assassination) but actually commands in certain instances, in the Qur’an Muslims are told in Sura 9:5 ‘Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them’ what are Muslims supposed to do to the people who resist Islam? Sura 5:33 says “their punishment is …<question as to why he did the dot dot dot> execution, or crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.” In the west such things as cutting off someone’s hands or feet because he would not accept your religion is unthinkable

[Dr Robert Morey, Islamic Invasion, pg. 39]


Dr Morey has quoted verse 5:33 from the Qur’an but he has left 3 dots to indicate he has partially quoted the text, he intentionally left out:

“Those who wage war against Allah and Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the earth”

By leaving this part out Morey has attempted to paint the picture that Islam allows the indiscriminate killing of anybody that chooses not to accept the Islamic faith but actually this verse refers to those who wage war on Allah and His Messenger by waging war and causing mischief in the earth.

to be more elaborate about the type of people this verse from the Qur’an applies to we have to look at the context of Sura 5 verse 33 before and after where Allah relates the happenings of Kane and Abel in which Kane kills his brother unjustly out of envy and in doing so, earned the sin as if he had killed the whole of humanity. Allah tells us the very reason why He revealed the verse:

Who killed a human being unless it be for manslaughter or mischief in the earth then it is as if he killed the whole of humanity”

By revealing this verse Allah is informing us about the sanctity of human life and the blood of mankind, this is why directly after this verse Allah says:

The punishment of those who wage war with Allah and His Messenger and strive with might to make mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.”

So this verse refers to a particular type of people and it also strongly indicates that killing people is a form of waging war against God and His Messenger, it does not condone the killing of any westerner who does not want to embrace Islam as Dr Morey would like us to believe.

Plus Dr Robert Morey tends to forget that there are a great number of Arabic Coptic Christians still living within the Arabian Peninsula, and we can’t forget about the Jews and Christians that lived within the Holy land of Jerusalem at the time of Muslims rule

In Islamic Sharia there are four Punishments laid down for those who disobey the rulings of Allah and His Prophet (in subject to killing and so forth) who attempts to spread mischief on earth or who arm themselves and overtly intend to kill others…

1) If one of the mentioned persons kills another then he himself will face the death penalty. If the victims heirs forgive him, he will still be executed because this is not a personal matter of the heirs but involves the social peace and harmony of the whole community (unless accidental)

2) If he killed the person and also took his wealth then he will be publicly hanged so that it acts as deterrence (for others who desire to commit the crime)

3) If the person who stole the wealth and did not kill the victim, then his right hand and left foot will be cut off.

4) If the person does not steal nor kills anyone but instead aimed a weapon to infuse fright and terrorise people, then he will be extradited from his land. In other words, he will be separated from his family and will be imprisoned in another region.

Some Scholars have commented that such a person should be extradited since there is a possibility that he will continue his crime in the new region. Instead the criminal should be imprisoned until he repents. The real aim is to protect the public from his behaviour, this will not be achieved by extradition but by ensuring he is kept behind bars and he repents sincerely. Makhool writes under this verse that Umar [r] remarked “I will keep such criminals in prison until I am sure they have repented. I will not let them go free into other regions where they will become a source of mischief for the inhabitants.” (Tafseer Qurtubi)

The reason for revelation of this verse was when the people from the tribe of urena came to Madinah to accept Islam, they became sick. The Holy Prophet [s] advised them to drink milk mixed down with camel’s urine that they were given in charity. On doing this they were cured but they became so reviled that they killed the Shepard of the camels and ran away with 15 camels. The Holy Prophet [s] sent Hazrat Yassar [r] after them. These wretches however martyred Hazrat Yassar [r] after burning his eyes out and cutting of his hands and his feet. Later these people were arrested and bought back. The verse was revealed on this occasion.

the punishment is applied to these following 3 types of people:

1) He who obstructs and blocks the road (the highway man)
2) He who blocks the way and seizes the wealth of the people
3) and he who kills the people and seizes their goods.

Their punishment will be the following, banishment, cut of the hands and the feet, execution.

Also in regards of Islamic Shari ‘a we find In the Shafee fiqh book Umdat as Salik (reliance of the traveller) on pg. 616

Section 015.0: the penalty for highway robbery

015.1: the Caliphs obliged to summon whoever uses a weapon (o: though force suffices to be considered a weapon or taking money by dint of ones fists.) and makes people afraid to use the road (o: no matter whether in the wilderness, a village, or in the country, meaning he frightens those who pass along the way by means of his strength or weapons) if the highway man responds to the summons before he has injured anyone, then he is only disciplined. (Def: 017). If he steals the equivalent of 1.058 grams of gold under the previously mentioned conditions (014.1) both his right hand and his left foot are amputated. (A: the difference between a highway man and someone who takes by forcible seizure (dis: 014.6) is that the latter does so within earshot of help. While the offence of the highway man is far greater because he menaces the life line of the community and its trade routes.)

015.2: if a highway man kills someone, he must be executed, even when the person entitled to retaliation (def: 03) aggress to forgo it. If the highway man robs and kills, he is killed and then left crucified for three days, if he wounds or maims someone; retaliation is taken against him, though it may be waived by those entitled to take it.


The book further reads:

015.3: (N: the penalty for highway robbery such as mandatory execution, crucifixion, and amputating the hand and the foot is cancelled if the highway man repents. (A: desists, and gives himself up) before he has been apprehended, though he is still liable to retaliation (def: 03) by parties entitled to it (A: for injuries or deaths he caused to victims and is financially responsible for restoring the money he has taken.) 616 Umdat as Salik.

from the evidences I have shown we see clearly that the verse 5:33 does not refer to non Muslims who wish not to embrace Islam as Morey would have us think but it refers to those terrorists who rob, kill, harm and oppress people by use of force and so forth and here again we see Islam opposes terrorism.

Indeed the Islamic law is just and am sure many people would nod their head in agreement with the above but yet there are some that still would think this ruling of the chopping of the hands and the feet to be extreme as many Christians voice but yet when missionaries quote this verse they do great injustice to the context.

Further on in verse 34 in Sura 5 Allah says:

Except those who repent before you have them in your power so know that Allah is the all forgiving and Merciful. (5:34)

If the bandit or the mischief maker repents for his behaviour before the capture and publicly announces his desire to lead a life of peace, then the set punishments (i.e. public execution, to cut of the hands and the feet, to imprison) will be dropped, however if the victim of the crime does not forgive the offender, then the criminal will still face the decreed punishment. A criminal’s repentance will not be accepted after he has been arrested for his crime, but in fact will face the full extent of the law.

The reason for this is because his repentance is no longer based on sincerity and truthfulness. This case is similar to a person who repents to Allah as he draws his last breathe before dying (Tafseer Qurtubi) and repentance at such a time is not accepted. (Tirmidhi, book of supplications)

So the criminal has chance to repent and in doing so avoids the punishment only if the victim’s family overlook and pardon his wrongdoing. This is the nature of Allah the all Loving God who is willing to forgive, unlike the God of the Bible whom the Christians and Jews call Yahweh.

In Jewish law if a burglar breaks into your home and you start fighting him but yet the man is too strong and overpowers you and you are on the brink of being killed when all of a sudden your wife comes to your rescue by grabbing his private's and squeezing them causing the attacker to flee in pain and by this method she saved your life but yet you are commanded by Yahweh to:

cut of her hands and not to pity her (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

is this Just?

In this respect which is more Just the Qur’an? Or the Bible? Is Yahweh really the God of love as Christians say? In reply to Morey cutting of your wife’s hands because she saves your life by squeezing the secrets of the attacker is unthinkable!
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Andaraawus
12-28-2005, 11:58 AM
:sl: I would be greatful if somebody has a way to improve this or add to this ...many heads are better than one wasalams
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
12-29-2005, 12:07 AM
:sl: Andaraawus,
Mashaa'Allah, you did an excellent job, well-researched. You can take a look at what I wrote on the same topic here:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#17

:w:
Reply

Andaraawus
12-29-2005, 12:11 AM
As-salamu alaykum

seriously thank you for your informative article ....it will help me improve on mine very much so , wasalams
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Malsidabym
02-05-2006, 11:33 PM
:? Here is your religion of peace.
(this only a partial list, about 40% of acts in just over 1 month)
A List of Islamic 'Peaceful Gestures'
2/5/06 Iraq Baghdad Six people are killed in four separate attacks by Jihadis, including two men who were tortured to death
2/5/06 Israel Petach Tikva A Palstinian stabs an Israeli woman to death as she is riding a bus. Four others were stabbed as well
2/4/06 Afghanistan Helmand , Two overnight attacks by religious extremists leave at least five people dead, including a district chief
2/3/06 Thailand Songkhla A Buddhist teacher is gunned down by Muslim militants and four others are wounded in a separate attack on teachers.
2/3/06 Philippines Patikul , Islamists massacre a family of Christians after confirming their religious identity. The victims included an infant and other young children.
2/3/06 Iraq Hawijah , In a heinous attack, Sunni extremists kill an Iraqi translator
2/2/06 Russia Vladikavkaz , Muslim separatists are suspected to be behind three bombings at gambling establishments that kill a young man and woman.
2/2/06 Thailand Pattani , A 42-year-old wood trader is gunned down by Muslim terrorists.
2/2/06 Thailand Janae , A Buddhist policeman is killed when Islamic radicals attempt to kill a group of teachers under escort in a motorcade with a bomb hidden in a fire extinguisher.
2/2/06 Thailand Narathiwat , Islamists kill a village chief's driver and deputy with a shrapnel bomb hidden under their vehicle.
2/1/06 Thailand Pattani , Muslims stab a 63-year-old Buddhist man to death as he is working his rubber plantation.
1/31/06 Iraq Baghdad , The bodies of fourteen young people are found blindfolded, bound and executed at two separate sites.
1/31/06 Iraq Baghdad , A baker is killed by Islamic radicals in his shop.
1/31/06 Iraq Muqdadiyah , Jihadis kill the wife and two sons of a religious cleric in their home
/29/06 Iraq Iskandariya , Radical Sunnis plant a bomb outside a shop in a Shia town, blowing at least ten people into disparate parts.
1/29/06 Thailand Pattani , Muslim terrorists shoot a 41-year-old government official to death in his home.
1/29/06 Thailand Pattani , A 38-year-old schoolteacher is killed by Muslim radicals while walking home from work.
1/29/06 Thailand Narathiwat , Islamic militants open fire on a a railway station, killing two guards.
1/29/06 India Kanjikullah , A policeman is abducted and murdered by the Mujahideen.
1/29/06 Iraq Ojah , A Fedayeen suicide bomber blows himself to Allah, taking several innocents along with him.
1/29/06 Iraq Kirkuk , Muslims target Christian churches with six car bombs, killing at least three people and injuring eleven
1/25/06 Bangladesh Meherpur , Jama'atul Mujahideen terrorists kill a Hindu woman and her daughter at a memorial service for her dead father by throwing two bombs at them. Nine others were injured.
1/21/06 India Budshah Chowk , Seven people are injured in a Mujahideen grenade attack.
1/20/06 Ingushetia Ingushetia , Two civilians are killed by Islamic terrorists in a small village.
1/20/06 Iraq Dujail , The bodies of seven civilians are found bound and executed where two others were found days earlier.
1/20/06 Iraq Baghdad , Four civilians are killed in a roadside bomb and two other people are gunned down by Muslim radicals in separate Karabala attacks.
1/20/06 Thailand Narathiwat , A 63-year-old farmer is killed when a bomb planted at the base of a cell tower explodes.
1/20/06 Indonesia Waghete , Indonesians kill four unarmed teenagers (ages 13 to 15) in an unprovoked attack as they are walking to school. A fifth boy is severely beaten.
1/19/06 Egypt Udaysaat , Muslims go on a rampage against Christians, angered by the construction of a church. Two, including a 13-year-old boy, are killed.
1/19/06 Iraq Dujail ,Twelve civilians are machine-gunned to death by radical Sunnis after their cars were stopped at a fake roadblock.
1/19/06 Israel Tel Aviv , A Palestinian suicide bomber injures two dozen Israelis in an attack on a fast-food stall at a bus station.
1/18/06 India Pampore , The body of a civilian is recovered ten days after being abducted by the Mujahideen.
1/18/06 Iraq Baghdad , Sunni radicals infiltrate an office building and murder three men.
1/17/06 Chechnya Grozny , Four Russians and one Chechan are blown apart in a landmine attack by Muslim rebels
1/16/06 India Kulgam , Islamic radicals gun down two political activists in separate attacks
1/16/06 Chechnya Grozny , A policeman is killed by Jihadis.
1/16/06 Iraq Ramadi , A physics professor is gunned down in a brutal attack.
1/16/06 Iraq Miqdadia , A Jihad car bombing kills six, including a child, and injures eighteen.
1/16/06 Afghanistan Spin Boldak , A Fedayeen bomber plows an explosives-laden motorbike into a crowd of people in a downtown area, killing at least twenty-two.
1/15/06 Thailand Narathiwat , Islamists butcher two 20-year-old men in a gruesome attack.
1/15/06 India Kashmir Valley , A contractor is abducted and killed by the Mujahideen.
1/11/06 India Udhampur , A teenage girl is killed when militants hurl a grenade into her home on Eid day. Two other relatives are injured.
1/9/06 Thailand Yala , Muslim radicals shoot a 60-year-old Buddhist three times in the neck after vowing to 'keep killing innocents'.
1/9/06 Thailand Pattani , The burnt body of a 74-year-old Buddhist is found after he is murdered by Islamic radicals, who beat the elderly man severely before slashing his throat.
1/9/06 India Awantipore , The Mujahideen abduct a man from his home and shoot him to death
1/7/06 Thailand Pattani , Islamic militants kill a pig farmer and also fire on a family of foreigners, injuring three, including a baby
1/7/06 Pakistan Kai Kot , A family is massacred by the Taliban. The dead include a young girl.
1/7/06 Thailand Yala , A grocery store is shot up by Muslim radicals. Two people in their 20's are killed and four others injured.
1/7/06 Pakistan Wana , A 6-year-old boy is killed by a bomb that also injures an 8-year-old
1/7/06 Algeria Tissemsilt , Four civilians employees of a state water company are killed by the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat.
1/6/06 Yemen Saadah , Four civilians are killed, and two injured, in a mortar attack by armed fundamentalists.
1/5/06 Iraq Ramadi , Eighty people waiting in line to apply for jobs at a recruiting station are blown to bits by a religious fanatic. Another seventy are injured.
1/4/06 Afghanistan Qalat , The Taliban kill the headmaster of a school by cutting off his head in front of his wife and eight children.
1/4/06 Thailand Sungai Padi , A 51-year-old man is gunned down by Islamic radicals as he is eating breakfast
1/3/06 Afghanistan Helmand , Two Taliban members shoot a humanitarian aid worker in the back of the head as he is kneeling in prayer.
1/3/06 Thailand Narathiwat , A militant Muslim assasinates a village headsman outside his home with an automatic rifle.
1/3/06 India Bumloora A civilian is abducted from his job site and hanged by the Mujahideen
1/2/06 Iraq Kirkuk , Two children, ages 7 and 10, are killed by Jihadi gunmen in an attack that also injures their parents
1/2/06 India Khog , An 18-year-old Hindu is kidnapped by militant Muslims and tortured to death.
12/31/05 Indonesia Sulawesi , Eight Christians are killed when Islamists bomb a market selling pork at a time when it is packed with shoppers. The bomb was packed with nails.
12/31/05 India Pulwama , The Mujahideen invade a home and open fire on the residents, killing the father and injuring another family member.
This is only a partial list for just over 1 month.:?
Reply

Andaraawus
02-05-2006, 11:47 PM
so much for your list of crap ...time for education

THE MEANING OF JIHAD

Jihad is a word that encompasses anything to do with struggle, a term often misunderstood to mean Holy War (Harbun Qudsun). A mother that brings up a child, A father working to put food on the table, a community building a school can also be termed as a Jihad, so in reality the word Jihad can have positive meaning whereas the word war may not always be a positive thing.

JIHAD IN THE QURAN AND THE SUNNAH

And whosoever STRIVES (JAAHADA), STRIVES (YUJAAHIDU) only for himself (29:6)

As for those who STRIVE (JAHADU) in Us (the cause of Allah), We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good doers. (29:69)

FIGHTING AINST ONES OWN EVIL IS A JIHAD

The Holy Prophet said to the Muslims when they was returning from battle:
"We are now returning from the lesser Jihad (Jihad ul Asghar) to the greater Jihad (Jihad ul Akbar) , the Jihad against the self." They asked: "What is the greater jihad? He said: "The servant's struggle against his lust." (Ibn al-Qayyim al-Fawa'id. Sunan Nisa'I, al-Bayhaqi in al-Zuhd al-Kabir (p. 165 §373=p. 198 §374) and al-Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad (13:493=13:523) cf. al-Ahdab, Zawa'id Tarikh Baghdad (9:309-311 §2077). Imam al-Ghazzali – ihya uluwm ud deen cited by Ibn Rajab in his Sharh Hadith Labbayk (p. 128))

You have come back from the smaller jihad; what about the greater one?" They asked, "What is the greater jihad?" He [Ibn Abi `Abla] replied: "The jihad of the heart." (narrated by al-Nasa'i in his Kuna, narrated by al-Bayhaqi in al-Zuhd (p. 152). Ibn Hajar, Tahdhib al-Tahdhib (1:142)

“The most excellent type of Jihad is to practice jihad against your own self and own desires for the sake of Allah., and the most excellent type of hijrah (emigration) is to abandon evil deeds and sin." (Tirmidhi, Ahmad, and Tabarani, Ibn Majah, Al Hakim Sahih Ibn Hibbanm, No. 4862, Ibn Hibban (#1624, 2519): Authentic; - Shu`ayb al-Arna'ut (Commentary on Ibn Hibban): authentic; - al-Hakim: sahih; - `Iraqi confirms him; - it is also in; - Albani included it in the "Sahiha".)

DOING A PERFECT HAJJ IS A JIHAD

A'isha, Allah be well-pleased with her, asked: 'Messenger of Allah, we see jihad as the best of deeds, so shouldn't we join it?' He replied, 'But the best jihad is a perfect Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah).'" (Sahih Al-Bukhari #2784)

LOOKING AFTER THE PARENTS IS A JIHAD

On another occasion, a man asked: "Should I join the jihad?" The Prophet asked, upon him peace, "Do you have parents?" The man said yes. The Prophet said: "Then do jihad by serving them!" (Sahih Al-Bukhari #5972)

SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN A COURT OF AN OPPRESSOR IS A JIHAD

Muhammad encouraged Muslims to demand justice in the name of Allah. When asked: "'What kind of jihad is better?' Muhammad replied, 'A word of truth in front of an oppressive ruler!'" Sunan Al-Nasa'i , No. 4209

MILLATARY JIHAD IS NOT THE 6TH PILLAR OF ISLAM

"And it is not proper for the believers to go out to fight in Jihad all together. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may get instructions in the deen, and that they may warn their people when they return to them, so that they may beware (of evil).” (Quran 9:122)

Every Muslim has to forfill the pillars of Islam, the witnessing of there is no God but Allah and Muhammad saw is His Messeneger, the establishment of prayer 5 times a day, paying zakat, fasting in the month of Ramadan and doing pilgrimage to makkah but the above verse shows that not everybody has to do a military jihad therefore it is not a pillar of Islam.

EVEN NON MUSLIMS CAN DO JIHAD AGAINST MUSLIMS

And We have stressed on man concerning his parents, his mother bore him undergoing weakness upon weakness and his weaning takes two years that give thanks to Me and to your parents. Lastly, the return is towards Me. And if they both do Jihad to make you associate with Me a thing of which you have no knowledge then obey them not and accompany them in the world very well and follow him who turned to Me repently, then to Me is your return, I shall inform you what you used to do. , sura 31 verse 14-15

We have insisted on man to be kind towards parents. And if they do Jihad to make you associate with Me of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not. To Me is your return, then I will inform you, what you used to do. Surah 29 verse 8

KAREN ARMSTRONG SPEAKS ABOUT THE ISLAMIC JIHAD

In her book "Muhammed," author Karen Armstrong writes: "Fighting and warfare might sometimes be necessary, but it was only a minor part of the whole jihad or struggle. A well-known tradition (hadith) has Muhammad say on returning from a battle, ' We return from the little jihad to the greater jihad,' the more difficult and crucial effort to conquer the forces of evil in oneself and and in one's own society in all the details of daily life." (Karen Armstrong, "Muhammed: A biography of the Prophet," Harper SanFrancisco, (1993 )

GOD ALLOWS THE FIGHTING AGAINST OPPRESSION

"To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory - (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right - (for no cause) except that they say, 'Our Lord is Allah'..." (The Holy Quran, 22:39-40)

"Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ...And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors."(The Holy Quran, 2:190, 193)

"And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? - Men, women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You, one who will protect; and raise for us from You, one who will help.'" (The Holy Quran, 4:75)

"And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) fight back."(The Holy Quran, 42:39)

"They ask you (Muhammad) concerning fighting in the Sacred Month. Say, 'Fighting therein is a grave (offense) but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its inhabitants. Persecution is worse than killing. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith, if they can..."(The Holy Quran, 2:217)


TO BE KIND TO THE NON MUSLIMS WHO DON?T FIGHT AGAINST YOU

God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you over religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. God merely forbids you from taking as friends those who have fought you over religion and driven you from your homes and who supported your expulsion... (Qur?an, 60:8-9)

RULES OF COMBAT

Upon the Holy Prophets advice Abu Bakr gave the following command to his army before the first Syrian expedition: Stop, O people that I may give you ten rules to keep by heart: Do not commit treachery, nor depart from the right path. You must not mutilate, neither kill a child or aged man or woman. Do not destroy a palm tree, nor burn it with fire and do not cut any fruitful tree. You must not slay any of the flock or herds or the camels, save for your subsistence. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them to that to which they have devoted their lives. You are likely, likewise, to find people who will present to you meals of many kinds. You may eat; but do no forget to mention the name of Allah. (Tabari, ta rich, 1, 1850, cited in majid khadduri, war and peace in the law of Islam, john Hopkins press, Baltimore, 1955, p. 102.)

PROHIBTION OF KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE WOMEN AND CHILDREN

if someone kills another person ? unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth ? it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind... (Qur?an, 5:32)

do not kill anyone God has made inviolate, except with the right to do so, and do not fornicate; anyone who does that will receive an evil punishment. (Qur?an, 25:68)

When the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the cause of Allah. Fight against those who do not believe in Allah. Wage a holy war: do not embezzle the spoils, do not break your pledge, do not mutilate (the dead) bodies and do not kill the children.(Sahih Muslim 804)

when the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, sent out a raiding party, he would say to them, 'Make your raids in the name of Allah in the way of Allah? do not kill children. (Maliks Muwatta 21:11)

The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade those to kill women and children. He said that one of the men fighting had said, 'The wife of ibn Abi Huqayq began screaming and I repeatedly raised my sword against her. Then I would remember the prohibition of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, so I would stop. Had it not been for that, we would have been rid of her.' " (Maliks Muwatta 21:8)

The Holy Prophet said Do not kill children. Avoid touching people who devote themselves to worship in churches! Never murder women and the elderly. Do not set trees on fire or cut them down. Never destroy houses! (Ahmad Diya?al deen al hadith, vol one 84/8)

Abu Bakr on a military expedition said: "I advise you ten things: Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly." (Imam Maliks Muwatta 21:10)

The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) did not kill the children of the enemy, so you should not kill the children. (Sahih Muslim 8:35)

PROHIBITION OF MUTALATION AND ROBERRY

The Prophet forbade robbery and also forbade mutilation (or maiming) of bodies. (Sahih Bukhari 3:654)

When the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the cause of Allah. Fight against those who do not believe in Allah. Wage a holy war: do not embezzle the spoils, do not break your pledge, do not mutilate (the dead) bodies and do not kill the children.(Sahih Muslim 804)


when the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, sent out a raiding party, he would say to them, 'Make your raids in the name of Allah in the way of Allah. Do not mutilate and do not kill children.' (Maliks Muwatta 21:11)

PROHIBITION OF BURNING PEOPLE WITH FIRE

Narrated Ikrima Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.? (Sahih Bukhari 4:60)

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud We were with the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him)
during a journey. He went to ease himself. We saw a bird with her two young ones and we captured her young ones. The bird came and began to spread its wings. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) came and said: Who grieved this for its young ones? Return its young ones to it. He also saw an ant village that we had burnt. He asked: Who has burnt this? We
replied: We. He said: It is not proper to punish with fire except the Lord of fire. (Sunan Abu Dawud 1131)

PROHIBITION OF COMMITTING SUCICIDE

Do not kill yourselves indeed Allah has been Most Merciful with you And who does that out of aggression and injustice then We shall burn him in fire and that is easy for Allah (4:29-30)

Do not take life which Allah hath made sacred.? (6:151, 17:33 25:68)

Suicide bombing is an action of despair and Prophet Jacob said to his sons: Do not despair the spirit of Allah, indeed no one despairs the spirit of Allah except the disbelieving people (12:86)

The Prophet peace be upon him said: ?Indeed, whoever kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever.?(Sahih Bukhari 5778 and Sahih Muslim 109 and 110)

Whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire." Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him." (Sahih Bukhari 7:670, 2:445)

the Prophet peace be upon him said let there be no harming your self or harming other people (Hadith 32 of Imam Nawawi?s 40 hadith )

PROHIBTION OF WISHING FOR DEATH

The Holy Prophet said: none amongst you should make a request for death, and do not call for it before it comes, for when any of you dies, he ceases (to do good) deeds and the life of a believer is not prolonged but for goodness. (Sahih Muslim 1234, Sahih Bukhari 7:577)

One companion of the Holy Prophet said ?Had the Prophet not forbidden us to wish for death, I would have wished for it." (Bukhari 7:576)

the Holy Prophet recommended to supplicate by saying: O Allah, keep me alive as long as there is goodness in life for me and bring death to me when there is goodness in death for me. (Sahih Bukhari 7:575)

DOES ISLAM TEACH TO HATE THE JEWS?

Narrated Anas ibn Malik When Safiyyah heard that Hafsah had called her a Jew's daughter she wept. Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) came in where she was while she was weeping and asked her what was making her weep. When she told him Hafsah had called her a Jew's daughter the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "You are a prophet's daughter, your paternal uncle was a prophet, and you are married to a prophet, so what has she to boast of over you?" He then said, "Fear Allah, Hafsah." Tirmidhi 1645

Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As Mujahid said that Abdullah ibn Amr slaughtered a sheep and said: Have you presented a gift from it to my neighbour, the Jew, for I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say: Gabriel kept on commending the neighbour to me so that I thought he would make an heir? Abu Dawud 2446

Narrated Abdur Rahman bin Abi Laila Sahl bin Hunaif and Qais bin Sad were sitting in the city of Al-Qadisiya. A funeral procession passed in front of them and they stood up. They were told that funeral procession was of one of the inhabitants of the land i.e. of a non-believer, under the protection of Muslims. They said, "A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?" Bukahri 2:339

Narrated Abu Said Al Khudri While Allah's Apostle was sitting, a Jew came and said, "O Abul Qasim! One of your companions has slapped me on my face." The Prophet asked who that was. He replied that he was one of the Ansar. The Prophet sent for him, and on his arrival, he asked him whether he had beaten the Jew. He (replied in the affirmative and) said, "I heard him taking an oath in the market saying, 'By Him Who gave Moses superiority over all the human beings.' I said, 'O wicked man! (Has Allah given Moses superiority) even over Muhammad? I became furious and slapped him over his face." The Prophet said, "Do not give a prophet superiority over another, for on the Day of Resurrection all the people will fall unconscious and I will be the first to emerge from the earth, and will see Moses standing and holding one of the legs of the Throne. I will not know whether Moses has fallen unconscious or the first unconsciousness was sufficient for him." Bukhari 3:595

THE FIRST SUICIDE MARTYR

The first suicide martyr is Samson which is narrated in the Bible (Judges chapter 16) He committed suicide along with killing 3000 palestinian men and women (Judges 16:27) the Jews and the Christians glorify this act, but within the doctrines Islam this ideology is absent.

PROHIBITION OF MAKING MISCHEIF IN THE EARTH

Eat and drink of God's provision and do not go about the earth corrupting it. (Qur?an, 2:60)

Do not corrupt the earth after it has been put right. Call on Him fearfully and eagerly. God?s mercy is close to the good-doers. (Qur?an, 7:56)

God does not uphold the works of those who cause mischief.? (Qur?an, 10:81)

When they are told, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are only putting things right." No indeed! They are the corrupters, but they are not aware of it. (Qur?an, 2:11-12)

But as for those who break God?s contract after it has been agreed and sever what God has commanded to be joined, and cause corruption in the earth, the curse will be upon them. They will have the Evil Abode. (Qur?an, 13:25)

GOD HATES CORRUPTION AND MISCHEIF

God does not love corruption" . (Qur?an, 2:205)

GOD IS AGAINST WARMONGERS

Each time they kindle the fire of war, God extinguishes it. They rush about the earth corrupting it. God does not love corrupters. (Qur?an, 5:64)

Whenever he holds the upperhand, he goes about the earth corrupting it, destroying (people's) crops and breeding stock. God does not love corruption. When he is told to have fear of God, he is seized by pride which drives him to wrongdoing. Hell will be enough for him! What an evil resting-place. (Qur?an, 2:205-206)

THE PUNISHMENT OF THOSE WHO CAUSE MISCHEIF IN THE EARTH

There are only grounds against those who wrong people and act as tyrants in the earth without any right to do so. Such people will have a painful punishment. (Qur?an, 42:42)

But as for those who break God?s contract after it has been agreed and sever what God has commanded to be joined, and cause corruption in the earth, the curse will be upon them. They will have the Evil Abode. (Qur?an, 13:25)

Those who wage war against Allah and Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the earth, their punishment is execution, or crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land (5:33 Qur?an)

PAST NATIONS DESTROYED FOR GOING TO EXTREMES IN THE RELGION

Allah says ?Do not go to extremes in your religion? (Quran 4:171)

The Holy Prophet said ?Beware of extremism for extremism destroyed the people before you (Ahmad and others) ?iyyakum wal ?ghuluw-wa fa-inna-ma ah(tied ha)laka man kaa na Qablakum al ?ghuluw-wu.

GOD FORBIDS GROUP METALAITYS IN WRONG DEEDS

Help one another in benevolence and piety. Do not help each other to wrongdoing and enmity. And fear God. God is severe in retribution. (Qur?an, 5:2)

Let not the hatred of a people [who once] obstructed you from the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgress. Help one another in benevolence and piety, and help not one another in sin and transgression? (Qur?an, 5:2)

But do not obey any vile swearer of oaths, any backbiter, slandermonger, impeder of good, evil aggressor, gross, coarse and furthermore, despicable.(Qur?an, 68:10-13)

GOD COMMANDS FORGIVENESS NOT REVENGE

We did not create the heavens and earth and everything between them, except with truth. The Hour is certainly coming, so forgive with fair forbearance. (Qur?an, 15:85)

Those of you possessing affluence and ample wealth should not make oaths that they will not give to their relatives and the very poor and those who have made emigration in the way of God. They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love God to forgive you? God is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Qur?an, 24:22)

Make allowances for people? (Qur?an, 7:199)

A good action and a bad action are not the same. Repel the bad with something better and, if there is enmity between you and someone else, he will be like a bosom friend.? (Qur?an 41:34)

The repayment of a bad action is one equivalent to it. But if someone pardons and puts things right, his reward is with God. Certainly He does not love wrongdoers.? (Qur?an, 42:40)

those who give in times of both ease and hardship, those who control their rage and pardon other people ? God loves the good-doers" (Qur?an, 3:134)

You will never cease to come upon some act of treachery on their part, except for a few of them. Yet pardon them, and overlook. God loves good-doers. (Qur?an, 5:13)

GOD COMMANDS JUSTICE IN ALL CASES

God commands you to return to their owners the things you hold on trust and, when you judge between people, to judge with justice. How excellent is what God exhorts you to do! God is All-Hearing, All-Seeing. (Qur?an, 4:58 )

if you do judge, judge between them justly (Quran 5:42)

O You who believe! Be upholders of justice, bearing witness for God alone, even against yourselves or your parents and relatives. Whether they are rich or poor, God is well able to look after them. Do not follow your own desires and deviate from the truth. If you twist or turn away, God is aware of what you do. (Qur?an, 4:135)

O Mankind! We created you from a male and female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you might come to know each other. The noblest among you in God?s sight is that one of you who best performs his duty. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (Qur?an, 49:13)

O You who believe! Show integrity for the sake of God, bearing witness with justice. Do not let hatred for a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to faith. Heed God (alone). God is aware of what you do. (Qur?an, 5:8 )

GOD COMMANDS GOODNESS

And do good as God has been good to you. And do not seek to cause corruption in the earth. God does not love corrupters. (Qur?an, 28:77)

Be good to your parents and relatives and to orphans and the very poor, and to neighbours who are related to you and neighbours who are not related to you, and to companions and travellers and your slaves. God does not love anyone vain or boastful. (Qur?an, 4:36)

ISLAM ENCOURAGES TO BE MERCIFUL AND COMPASSIONATE

In a famous saying of Muhammad, may God bless him and grant him peace, he says: ?The merciful are shown mercy by the Merciful one. Show mercy to those on earth and you will be shown mercy by the One in Heaven.?

The Qur?an declares that Muhammad was sent as a Mercy to the worlds (21:107) something to which he himself testified when he refused to curse a warring tribe: ?I have not been sent to curse, but as a summoner and as a mercy?.

the Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, declared that ?people are God?s children and those dearest to God are the ones who treat His children kindly.?12

Muhammad God bless him and grant him peace, used to say that even if one person remains hungry in a particular area, no angel will descend in that area until that hungry person is fed.13

GOD COMMANDS COMPASSION

Then to be one of those who have faith and urge each other to steadfastness and urge each other to compassion. Those are the Companions of the Right. (Qur?an, 90:17-18)

ISLAM SPREADS PEACE

O You who believe! Enter absolutely into peace (Islam). Do not follow in the footsteps of Satan. He is an outright enemy to you. (The Qur?an, 48:26)

THE TRUE SERVANT OF ALLAH

And the true servants of the Merciful (Allah) are those who walk on the earth with humility and softness and when the ignorant address them they reply with peace (Quran 25:68)

SPEAK GENTLY WITH PEOPLE

Speak good to people (Quran 2:83)

Go to Pharaoh; he has overstepped the bounds. But speak to him with gentle words so that hopefully he will pay heed or show some fear. (Qur?an, 20:43-44)

And to Madyan their brother Shu?ayb. He said, ?My people, worship God! You have no deity apart from Him. Do not give short measure and short weight. I see you prospering and I fear for you the punishment of an all-encompassing Day. My people! Give full measure and full weight with justice; do not diminish people's goods; and do not go about the earth, corrupting it. What endures with God is better for you if you are believers. I am not set over you as your keeper.? They said, ?Shu?ayb, do your prayers instruct you that we should abandon what our fathers worshipped or stop doing whatever we want to with our wealth? Yet you are such a lenient, normal person!? He said, ?My people! What do you think? If I do possess a Clear Sign from my Lord and He has given me His good provision, I do not want to oppose you in what way I am forbidding you. I only want to put things right as far as I can. My success is with God alone. I have put my trust in Him and I turn to Him.? (Qur?an, 11:84-88)

tender-hearted and forbearing.? (Qur?an, 9:114)

It is a mercy from God that you were gentle with them. If you had been rough or hard of heart, they would have scattered from around you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult with them about the matter. Then when you have reached a firm decision, put your trust in God. God loves those who put their trust in Him. (Qur?an, 3:159)

ISLAM IS NOT BY FORCE!

Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair admonition, and argue with them in the kindest way. Your Lord knows best who is misguided from His way. And He knows best who are guided. (Qur?an, 16:125)

So remind them! You are only a reminder. You are not in control of them. (Qur?an, 88:21-22)

Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair admonition...? (Qur?an, 16:125)

You are not responsible for their guidance, but God guides whoever He wills.? (Qur?an, 2:272)

To you your religion, and to me, mine? (Qur?an, 109:6)

If your Lord had willed, all the people on the earth would have believed. Do you think you can force people to be believers? (Qur?an, 10:99)

We know best what they say and you [O Muhammad] are not a compeller over them. But warn by the Qur?an whoever fears My warning. (Qur?an, 50:45)

Do those who believe not know that if God had wanted to He could have guided all mankind? (Qur?an, 13:31)

If your Lord had willed, all the people on the earth would have believed. Do you think you can force people to be believers? (Qur?an, 10:99)

There is no compulsion in religion. True guidance has become clearly distinct from error. Anyone who rejects false deities and has belief in God has grasped the Firmest Handhold, which will never give way. God is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. (Qur?an, 2:256)

Say: ?Mankind! The truth has come to you from your Lord. Whoever is guided is only guided for his own good. Whoever is misguided is only misguided to his detriment. I have not been set over you as a guardian.? (Qur?an, 10:108)


"of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain, or Louis XIV made Protestantism penal in France, or the Jews were kept out of England for 350 years. The Eastern Churches in Asia were entirely cut off from communion with the rest of Christiandom throughout which no one would have been found to lift a finger on their behalf, as heretical communions. So that the very survival of these Churches to the present day is a strong proof of the generally tolerant attitude of Mohammedan [sic] governments towards them"( Arnold, Sir Thomas W., The Preaching of Islam, a History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith, Westminister A. Constable & Co., London, 1896, p. 80)
Reply

Mohsin
02-06-2006, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by malsidab
:? Here is your religion of peace.
(this only a partial list, about 40% of acts in just over 1 month)
...
(list removed due to long post)
Ye Brother is right, this is a pathetic list
You can't judge islam on the asis of actions of a individuals
Islam's perfect, but unfortunately muslims aren't
Reply

Andaraawus
02-06-2006, 12:27 AM
its like saying every football player is a hooligan just because some windows got smashed in the f.a cup by some people wearing football shirts , i mean its stupid, just really stupid and i can sense bigotry in the post, let it be known i dont deal nicely with bigots, i will speak in a very ride manner with them , no cuddly toys and flowers with me .
Reply

Malsidabym
02-06-2006, 12:30 AM
Andaraawus, I have read through your response and find nothing new. It is the same typical religious response when faced with the facts of what is actually happening(proof's in the pudding). It is the same old "distract from the topic at hand by changing the subject" routine, and spewing out a bunch of verbal diarrea about topics that have nothing to do with what was originally stated.
I believe alot of muslims would never hurt anyone. I also believe that a disproportionally large number of muslims are quite willing to hurt or kill others when compared to other religions (ie. buddists, hindus, sikhs, christians, jews, etc). I know you will give examples of other atrocities by members of other religions, and I will agree with you that they did indeed happen. The facts still remain, many, many, many more killings are committed by muslims on a regular basis than any of the others. You can change the subject all you want, but the facts remain. Read the list. I can post much more. I could post December.
I should know better than to try to convince you, as with most religious people, even when faced with indisputable facts, you will still deny what you see.
Many muslims love to hate. Not all perhaps, but many more than with other religions. Read the list slowly, and ponder the significance of each incident. Imagine you are there. Imangine you are the child of the schoolmaster watching as the muslim men cut off your father's head because they don't like his way of thinking. That is your religion of peace, tolerance, and compassion. Killing someone for thinking in a different manner than what you do is barbaric, uncivilized, and comparible to the behavior of a wild beast. Like I said, I don't believe all muslims would hurt others. If you are one that would not, then congratulations, you are civilized.
Reply

Mohsin
02-06-2006, 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by malsidab
Imangine you are the child of the schoolmaster watching as the muslim men cut off your father's head because they don't like his way of thinking. That is your religion of peace, tolerance, and compassion.
.
No that is not our religion of peace, it's what we are trying to tell you, islam teaches the opposite, its up to the person, muslim or non-muslim, to follow what islam says

Killing someone for thinking in a different manner than what you do is barbaric, uncivilized, and comparible to the behavior of a wild beast
I totally agree with you mate
Reply

Andaraawus
02-06-2006, 12:35 AM
and plus he has commietd a error called the red herring , notice how he didnt even touch the issue at hand, with the context of the first thread but totally shot in a different direction talking about israel and blah blah blah, did i ever mention israel in my post? no ...

the reasonable thing to do would be to read the first post before posting some irrelevant crap that doesnt even involve the subject...

where in the Quran does it say to the Muslim:

Blow yourself up! kill innocent israelis! Kill the Jews!

we are dealing with the Quran and violence not Israel and the problems therein.

Is it true that Arabic books are banned in Israel ? if so where are the Qurans?
Reply

Andaraawus
02-06-2006, 12:47 AM
oh i didnt see his reply ...

well pop goes the weisel.

Islam is against terrorism whether it be state terrorism or vigilante terrorism, im sure that pulling loads of referenecs from ira bombings and so forth will not prove that the Christian faith teaches terror.

When dealing with such claims we have to look to the primary texts and the teachings of Islam in which i have done.

I have gave sufficent evidence in which he has failed to address instead he has resulted to ad hominem attacks by saying i am spurting out
verbal diarrea about topics that have nothing to do with what was originally stated.
Infact you will find it very relevant to the topic at hand, and he hasnt addressed one point put forth.

I believe alot of muslims would never hurt anyone.
bravo billy boy and the burning questiuon is why?

(proof's in the pudding).
correct answer , 10 scooby snacks to the contestant!
Reply

Prawned
02-06-2006, 12:51 AM
RULES OF COMBAT

Upon the Holy Prophets advice Abu Bakr gave the following command to his army before the first Syrian expedition: Stop, O people that I may give you ten rules to keep by heart: Do not commit treachery, nor depart from the right path. You must not mutilate, neither kill a child or aged man or woman. Do not destroy a palm tree, nor burn it with fire and do not cut any fruitful tree. You must not slay any of the flock or herds or the camels, save for your subsistence. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them to that to which they have devoted their lives. You are likely, likewise, to find people who will present to you meals of many kinds. You may eat; but do no forget to mention the name of Allah. (Tabari, ta rich, 1, 1850, cited in majid khadduri, war and peace in the law of Islam, john Hopkins press, Baltimore, 1955, p. 102.)
Just out of curiousity, and I'm just asking because I am curious, why does a religion of peace have rules of combat?
Reply

Malsidabym
02-06-2006, 01:04 AM
Andaraawus, You are a very angry man. Is that a normal trait in your group of friends? Is this a typical muslim response? So quick to lash out. Would you hit me if we were sitting together? If it were possible for Allah to sit with us, would he want you to? I doubt it. I think Mohammed would though.
I actually didn't mention Israel either. As far as the list goes, I only posted it in the most relevent place. Yes, it was a little bit of topic, I agree.
Perhaps, you are missing the point. I come as an unbeliever, and post a topic to engage in discussion about what seems to be the truth. Seeking answers, perhaps the approach was a little antagonistic, but effective. I am practically begging to be proven wrong. It would be welcome see that I was wrong, rather than the alternative. It would seem an opportunity for you to bring someone to islam, by demonstrating the peace and love for others that you say is the basis of islam. Instead, sadly, you only prove what is said in the demonstration of your hostile words. Moss, on the other hand provides a shimmer of hope through his more gentle approach. How about it Andaraawus? Are you feeling the love? Is Allah pleased with your hostile attitude? Does god endorse this? If we were seated together, would you want to hit me?
Reply

Andaraawus
02-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Your question is appreciated no worrys

to keep the peace during the battle field, you wont find an army on earth past and present with moral like this, as for the rules of combat unfortunately in this world there needs to be order, where is the peace and freedom if one nation is being oppressed? combat needs to used at times and difficult situations. in a nutshell the Quran says

Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said : Our Lord is Allah . For had it not been for Allah ' s repelling some men by means of others , cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques , wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned , would assuredly have been pulled down . Verily Allah helpeth one who helpeth Him . Lo! Allah is Strong , Almighty (Quran 22.40)
Reply

Mohsin
02-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by Prawned
Just out of curiousity, and I'm just asking because I am curious, why does a religion of peace have rules of combat?
Mashallah that's a good question by br. prawned, alhumdulillah all praise be to God.
Basically, islam no doubt is a peaceful religion, that is its ultimate aim to estabilish peace, but islam is a practical religion and also realistic. Sometimes force is needed to achieve peace, you can tollerate so much, but when an enemy oppress you so much you will need to fight for freedom of people, for self defence, to stop oppression etc. In these cases you need to do Jihad, that is striving in the cause of Allah, and in this case to estabilish peace, because the opposition is against peace and is promoting evil
In these cases fighting is allowed, but rules had to be put in place so people would not trangress. If an enemy was to surrender, a muslim had to let him live, and not only that the muslim had to guide him to a place of security! imagine that bro, not only does he let him live but he guides him to a place of shelter
I mean look at the rules of war, it says not to even destro a tree, subhanallah glory be to allah, how beautiful is that, not even a tree can be destroyed.
Reply

Mohsin
02-06-2006, 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by malsidab
Would you hit me if we were sitting together? If it were possible for Allah to sit with us, would he want you to? I doubt it. I think Mohammed would though.
Sorry bro you can't say that. What makes you think Muhammed SAW would allow that, if allah wouldn't then how could Muhammed SAW his messenger. i advise you to read a biography of the holy prophet Peace Be Upon Him, he would receive insults far far greater than what you've hurled at him and he wouldn't retaliate.
This is a sincere question now, what makes you think Muhammed Peace Be Upon Him would do such a thing, are you going to say based on his followers. This is not a very good argument, you can't judge a person by his followers. think of how many muslims there are in the world, over a billion, think about that number over a billion. There are bound to be some "extremists" or whatever you like to call them, they are a minority who do such acts, vast majority follow Muhammed SAW to the best of their ability, but unfortunately the small minority due to their major actions have greater impact and unfortunately portray islam in an incorrect manner
With all due respect, i think it's quite illogical, unfair and in some ways ignorant to judge a man, loved by so many, on the basis of a minority of people. Do you honestly think so many people would love this man if he was full of hate, do you think this many people would convert to islam if the so called starter liked killing people?
Reply

Andaraawus
02-06-2006, 01:20 AM
Andaraawus, You are a very angry man. Is that a normal trait in your group of friends? Is this a typical muslim response? So quick to lash out. Would you hit me if we were sitting together?
this is simply a ad hominem laced with a red herring people he cant refute the facts so he turns his attention to me and myself and attempts to belittle my character.

If it were possible for Allah to sit with us, would he want you to? I doubt it. I think Mohammed would though.
I think it would be a good idea for you to refer to my document The Prophets Anger and also Imam Ghazalis The Causes of Anger and It's Medicine document

I dont know if you can remeber zippy out of rainbow?

I actually didn't mention Israel either. As far as the list goes, I only posted it in the most relevent place. Yes, it was a little bit of topic, I agree.
Red Herring admitted no problem

Perhaps, you are missing the point. I come as an unbeliever, and post a topic to engage in discussion about what seems to be the truth.
:uhwhat

Seeking answers,
more like pusihing you bigoted behaviour down out throats

perhaps the approach was a little antagonistic, but effective. I am practically begging to be proven wrong. It would be welcome see that I was wrong,
i dont know what you expect from me , maybe a box of choclates and a bunch of flowers for valentines

rather than the alternative. It would seem an opportunity for you to bring someone to islam, by demonstrating the peace and love for others that you say is the basis of islam. Instead, sadly, you only prove what is said in the demonstration of your hostile words.
yes well i wwill deal with people accordingly

Moss, on the other hand provides a shimmer of hope through his more gentle approach. How about it Andaraawus? Are you feeling the love? Is Allah pleased with your hostile attitude? Does god endorse this? If we were seated together, would you want to hit me?
you see how moss asked ? now how nice moss was and i dealt with him accordingly , if you dont like my attitude and sterness towards you then reconsider your approach , and i will treat you accordingly, speak nicely and i will to ...thank you
Reply

Andaraawus
02-06-2006, 01:24 AM
oh it was prawned that asked the question nicely and not moss my mistake ,
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
02-06-2006, 02:15 AM
If we wanted to talk about atrocities perpetrated against Muslims, we'd be here forever. We can talk about the some 30 000 civilians killed from the invasion in Iraq, concerning which experts say "most of those who died were women and children and air strikes from coalition forces accounted for most of the violent deaths.". Or we can talk about the 28 masacres of palestinian Muslims. Or maybe let's talk about the 360 000 Muslims executed in China and the torture of Imaams. Or the "Many old and weak Tibetan Muslims as well as children that died of starvation". And we haven't even begun looking at Kashmir, Chechnya, Bosnia or Kosovo either.
Reply

Malsidabym
02-06-2006, 04:31 AM
Same stuff I always hear, christians say they have suffered at the hands of others, jews say they have suffered, muslims say they have suffered. blah. blah. blah. The point is, no group is innocent. All races and religions have killed and oppressed. Any person to deny that is a waste of time to talk to.
Many(I admit not all), muslims today have a tendancy towards violence. If muslims feel insulted, some (not all) will hold violent protest. The list I presented earlier was a lengthy example of individuals commiting violent acts toward others in the name of religion. Not states. So please don't ramble on about how Israel did this, how china did that, or the U.S. is doing this. I agree. And the countries should pay for thier crimes. The list contains examples of individuals killing individuals for different beliefs. The truth is though, the common thread is killing in the name of islam. I don't believe allah would approve of killing for the simple reason of difference of opinion. This evil comes from the seeds of hatred, anger and intolorence of difference of opinion. These seeds grow very quickly. I take Andaraawus' reaction to my statements as an example. Rather than convince me that I am wrong, he chose to cover his ears(figuratively speaking), and ridicule what was said. Not the slightest inclination to rational discussion. His hostility was immediate. And I expected it. He proved my point. It was a test and he failed.
You can say "yes, but you were an antagonist". True, but I've pushed sikhs, christians, and others in the same way, and rarely encounter hostility. Usually they think of what was said and try to disprove it(not always with success). Say the same thing to a small group of muslims, and you are sure to find at least one angry bigot. Now I am not saying all muslims, I am saying some, but more likely than with other religions. Please, I beg of you prove me wrong. But seeing is believing. We all are guilty to some degree of intolerance, but every human should feel the responsibility to at least try to be tolerent of other views, and if you disagree, then explain why. The Quran 3.134 refers to Allah being pleased with those that restrain thier anger and pardon men. If that daily task is not obeyed, than soon that anger seed grows to hate, and then what? I am willing to change my view, but it would take convincing. If you don't care then don't worry about it. But for now, what I see is a religion that has many members killing other individuals in the world today. Please, if you are going to ramble about the U.S., Israel, Britain, France, or any other countries atrocities, save it. That is not what I am saying. I said individuals.
Attack armies, not people. "But they attack our people", individuals are not attacking your people, armies are.
Hey Andaraawus, the definition of bigot is as follows, and if you can control your anger long enough to absorb the words, you might notice that this actually discribes you.
Bigot; a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions
Reply

Andaraawus
02-06-2006, 12:40 PM
Same stuff I always hear, christians say they have suffered at the hands of others, jews say they have suffered, muslims say they have suffered. blah. blah. blah. The point is, no group is innocent. All races and religions have killed and oppressed.Any person to deny that is a waste of time to talk to.
agreed

Many(I admit not all), muslims today have a tendancy towards violence.
i think it would be best to say the whole human race has this tendacy, you cant just single out muslims, Christians are very violent too and i can show you documentattion , pictures and evidence to prove so but the question is does that prove that Christians are terrorists? does it prove that the Bible promotes terror?

If we are to judge a people by doctrine we must therefore refer to the primary texts and in this case it is the Quran, inwhich i have spent many hours going from back to front listing down all the verses which refer to Jihad and warfare and the moral principles that go with them.

So the documentation is there, feel free to go through it, but when you present a point make sure it has not been already answered by the document, now i admit the document needs improving as there are many things i may have missed out , but suerly a dialouge will go a long way in improving my document ....thats of course if you base your points about Islam not being a relgion of peace but a relgion of terror , proving my document to be wrong.

If muslims feel insulted, some (not all) will hold violent protest.
I am glad you are not generlising, its a praiseworthy step towards truth.

The list I presented earlier was a lengthy example of individuals commiting violent acts toward others in the name of religion.
You see youre improving my document already ... i forgot to include this:

KILLING IN THE NAME OF ALLAH OR ISLAM

The Quran states there were nine people who cased mischeif in the land, (terrorism) but notice how they do it by God!

There was a gang of nine men in the city causing corruption in the land and not putting things right. They said, “Let us make an oath to one another by God that we will fall on him and his family in the night and then say to his protector, We did not witness the destruction of his family and we are telling the truth.” They hatched a plot and We hatched a plot while they were not aware. (Qur’an, 27:48-50)

we must understand from this that people can do great crimes using the name of God, all because some extremtists seek religous justifications to spread their hatred and do great crimes against humanity it doesnt mean God is guilty nor the book He has revealed.

Islam teaches against extremism

'Do not go to extremes in your relgion' (Quran 4:171)

The Holy Prophet warned the Muslims:

Beware of extremism in your relgion, nations before you were destroyed on account of their extremism in their religion (Sunan An-Nasa'i)


Not states. So please don't ramble on about how Israel did this, how china did that, or the U.S. is doing this. I agree.

im more to the subject, and plus im glad you admit the fact that its not just the Muslims with blood on their hands.

And the countries should pay for thier crimes.
God is just and justice will be done

The list contains examples of individuals killing individuals for different beliefs. The truth is though, the common thread is killing in the name of islam.
yep , i agree , i hate it when people use religion to commit attrocities or even use the ideals of freedom liberation and democracy to commit attrocities , it boils down to people people and the actions of people not doctrine, they will seek to justify their wrong doing with doctrine by using it out of its intended context.

I don't believe allah would approve of killing for the simple reason of difference of opinion.
Well go through the Quran and see. Is there a verse in the Quran which states we have to kill somebody fro difference of opnion ?

This evil comes from the seeds of hatred, anger and intolorence of difference of opinion. These seeds grow very quickly.
KEEPING THE HEART FREE FROM MALICE

Narrated Anas ibn Malik


Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said to me: My
son, if you are in a position to pass your morning and
evening keeping your heart free from malice against
anyone, then act according to it (this high ideal). He
then said: My son, and that is my practice and he who
loves my practice, in fact loves me and he who loves me,
will be with me in Paradise.

Transmitted by Tirmidhi. 59 ALSO CAN BE FOUND IN MISHKAT-UL- MASABEH HADITH 175.

I take Andaraawus' reaction to my statements as an example.
now the guy is just trying to wind me up, by saying i am full of rage and anger, trying to demonise me by painting me the red bull, well ....it only goes to destroy youre credibility further.

Rather than convince me that I am wrong, he chose to cover his ears(figuratively speaking), and ridicule what was said. Not the slightest inclination to rational discussion. His hostility was immediate. And I expected it. He proved my point. It was a test and he failed.
:rant:

You can say "yes, but you were an antagonist". True, but I've pushed sikhs, christians, and others in the same way, and rarely encounter hostility.
you first post in this thread was very hostile . who are you trying to fool, one minute you play wolf and now youre mr sheep and now youre mr wolf again, im not fooled. and from now i will refuse to such emotional ranting, which are in reality red herrings because you can not deal with the evidence i have presented and therefore you have got all emotional and provoked and started attacking my character.

This thread is not about Andaraawus! it is about the Quran and violenec so please play your violin somewhere else!


I beg of you prove me wrong.
you have been but your tooo stubborn to accept it.

The Quran 3.134 refers to Allah being pleased with those that restrain thier anger and pardon men
.

that is the only Quran verse you have quoted in this whole dialouge and that is a very good ayah. but please stop your rampage by going on a hypocrite hunt in attempt to burn me at the steak!

I was never angry and never wanted to hit you, thats just you being demonising by trying to potray me in a certain light , it is called 'character assasination' DEAL WITH THE ISSUES AT HAND NOT ANDARAAWUS.


Attack armies, not people. "But they attack our people", individuals are not attacking your people, armies are.
this proves you have not read my document with full attention...

the Quran says:

TO BE KIND TO THE NON MUSLIMS WHO DON?T FIGHT AGAINST YOU

God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you over religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. God merely forbids you from taking as friends those who have fought you over religion and driven you from your homes and who supported your expulsion... (Qur?an, 60:8-9)

now we have to ask how much documetaion have you refuted and how many times you have attacked me personally?
Reply

Snowflake
02-06-2006, 02:45 PM
An excellent post Andaraawus Bro!
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
02-06-2006, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by malsidab
Same stuff I always hear, christians say they have suffered at the hands of others, jews say they have suffered, muslims say they have suffered. blah. blah. blah. The point is, no group is innocent. All races and religions have killed and oppressed. Any person to deny that is a waste of time to talk to.
Exactly. In which case, the point of my post was successfuly conveyed. you attempted to prove that Islam is violent by citing actions of Muslims and I pointed out that such an argument is inherently flawed, which you've agreed with above. For someone to prove that Islam is violent they need to quote its teachings as found in the Qur'an and Sunnah. For my response to some commonly misquoted verses and narrations on the subject of war and violence, please refer to:
http://www.load-islam.com/c/rebuttals/Misquoted

Regards
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Malsidabym
02-06-2006, 05:55 PM
Andaraawus, believe me, I am never interested in the sheep role. As far as the hostile first thread, you missed the point, I have provoked other religious folks the same way, with a much different result. Please point out my emotional ranting, as I don't feel very emotional (but if you say so, sure! why not?!). Violin playing is usually reserved for sympathy seekers, I am not seeking any, I am an observer and commenter on the current world as I see it.
I was never angry and never wanted to hit you
I don't know about the hitting part, but one only need to read the threads to see the obvious emotion in you're words.
now we have to ask how much documetaion have you refuted and how many times you have attacked me personally?
Well, you got me on the refuted document part, but I read past threads, and we are running about even at comments directed at each other.
Anyway, Ansar Al-'Adl you make a good point. I have read the Quran and the Bible and I think you will agree, if parts are interpreted wrong, or taken out of context, both books can be said to be books of peace or books of violence.
And in keeping to the topic of this post(which I am very guilty of straying from), the quran can be said to be against violence in regular life, but for violence if the need arises.
So, if I can be allowed to only slightly stray from the topic, and please do not take this as an attack, why is it that the overwhelming majority of conflict and civil unrest in the world today involves muslims. Keep in mind that I have already admitted that the quran may not be directly responsible. Why do so many resort to violence? And why do the vast majority of peaceful muslims not speak out when these crimes are committed? Even when muslims are killing other muslims? Perhaps many are reading the quran wrong. When most people are offended in the world, at most they shout in protest. time and time again we see (perhaps misguided) muslims rampage and destroy. Is that what it is? There are a large number of misguided muslims getting it all wrong? And why so many? Why so frequently? These are legitamite questions, please provide thoughtful answers.
Bigot; a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
02-06-2006, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by malsidab
Anyway, Ansar Al-'Adl you make a good point.
Thank you. I'm glad you concur.
I have read the Quran and the Bible and I think you will agree, if parts are interpreted wrong, or taken out of context, both books can be said to be books of peace or books of violence.
If parts are taken out of context to support a violent interpretation it still does not mean that the book is violent.
And in keeping to the topic of this post(which I am very guilty of straying from), the quran can be said to be against violence in regular life, but for violence if the need arises.
You may see this as mere semantics, but I feel it important to point out that if we define violence as the unjust use of force, then the Qur'an is never for violence. The Qur'an advocates the controlled use of force for the establishment of justice upon which peace can thrive.
So, if I can be allowed to only slightly stray from the topic, and please do not take this as an attack, why is it that the overwhelming majority of conflict and civil unrest in the world today involves muslims.
We can examine this question from a number of angles. I believe the factors contributing to this can all be reduced to ignorance, oppression, poverty, and desperation which all reduces down to failure to adhere to the religion.

As mentioned earlier it is important to keep in mind that many atrocities have been and are being committed against Muslims, which no one will deny. Nevertheless, many of them do not recieve very much publicity even amongst the Muslim world (atrocities in China). Many Muslims feel helpless and desperate to do something to alleviate the suffering, yet in their ignorance of true Islamic teachings they fall to misguided actions. In fact, if you read the speeches of those who call for violence, you will find that their reasoning and entire premise is based on repelling the oppressors and defending the persecuted, although their abhorrent actions fail to achieve any of this.

The reason for the plight of the Muslims reduces down to the fact that they are no longer practicing their religion. When they began to leave the commandments of God and abandon the teachings of His Messenger, that was when destruction began.

And why do the vast majority of peaceful muslims not speak out when these crimes are committed?
This is not true, in fact it is the result of the spotlight fallacy. See the comment I made here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/175722-post57.html

To give another example, when the London Bombings occurred, a Muslim organization in North America immediately gathered dozens of Imaams from all over the country and they issued a joint statement condemning the bombing. The only media coverage of this was a single quotation in a local newspaper who sought to 'balance' this feedback by quoting one extremist and one anti-islamist.

Another example - the RIS conference that occurs in Toronto in the winter gathers tens of thousands of Muslims who attend lectures from various Muslim leaders from all over the globe, all voicing strong condemnation of such violent acts. I have seen barely any coverage of such events in the media, yet if we have even 1 person calling for violent attacks they appear on the front page.

Is that what it is? There are a large number of misguided muslims getting it all wrong? And why so many? Why so frequently?
The numbers may seem large and they may seem frequent as a result of the spotlight fallacy.
These are legitamite questions, please provide thoughtful answers.
I hope I have.
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Malsidabym
02-06-2006, 08:59 PM
Thank you Ansar Al-'Adl. You have given me things to consider. Your patience and thoughtful discussion are appreciated.
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Andaraawus
02-16-2006, 11:02 PM
I am delighted to see your new approach and your identification that Islam is not the problem, whatever personal remarks you have made i will leave them as i feel you have read the documentation and dealt fairly with it . peace
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-26-2006, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by Malsidabym
Thank you Ansar Al-'Adl. You have given me things to consider. Your patience and thoughtful discussion are appreciated.
You are most welcome Malsidabym. I believe that if we foster mutual understanding of eachother as opposed to pointing fingers, we can remove a lot of the problems in this world.

I have brought this thread up again as many of the issues discussed here are being raised once again on the forum.

Regards
Reply

Joe98
03-26-2006, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by Andaraawus

DOES ISLAM TEACH TO HATE THE JEWS?

Lots of words that don't answer the question…….

Does Islam teach to hate the Jews?????
Reply

abdul Majid
03-26-2006, 11:23 PM
uhh no, does that answer your question..

infact prophet Mohamed lived in peace among jews, and helped them, becuase they are people just like us..
Reply

HeiGou
03-27-2006, 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by abdul Majid
infact prophet Mohamed lived in peace among jews, and helped them, becuase they are people just like us..
I have to start by objecting to even the title of this thread.

But having said that, which Jews (the convention in English is to use capital letters unless you intend to belittle them) were these that Muhammed live in peace among?
Reply

------
03-27-2006, 10:32 AM
**edited**
Reply

HeiGou
03-27-2006, 11:27 AM
Originally Posted by Pagal Kuri
**edited**
Oh no. I am sure I would have loved to read that one!

Can we agree that he tried to live in peace with them but things did not work out and then he did not live in peace with them any more?
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
03-27-2006, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Oh no. I am sure I would have loved to read that one!

Can we agree that he tried to live in peace with them but things did not work out and then he did not live in peace with them any more?
Its simple, he had a treaty with them and none of them upheld their treaty for long. The first one took a stand against muslims publically and made fun of them and istigated violance. The second plotted on murdering the Prophet by dropping on his head a stone when he went to sit and talk to their leaders. The third joined the confederates and plotted to annihalate the whole Muslim state in Madinah. Therefore, all of them deserved to be kicked out because they did not live up to the treaty they agreed to. They were the aggressors and they got what they deserved.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-27-2006, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Can we agree that he tried to live in peace with them but things did not work out and then he did not live in peace with them any more?
Yes, when he first came to Madinah, he took the initiative to make a peace treaty with them, which unfortunately was not honored by some tribes.
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Andaraawus
03-27-2006, 01:46 PM
salam

I want to add to this thread but unfortunatly i am tied up in other things, I just want to say that maybe the brother didnt intend to insult and belittle by not using the capital J for Jews, maybe he is not too grammatic when he writes, even my level of grammar is poor and i get criticised for it alot. But yeh maybe poor grammar or even lazyness writing ...or maybe his caps button dont work ...maybe hes posting from a mobile phone and hes in a rush .... maybe ...he forgot?

wasalams
Reply

Andaraawus
03-27-2006, 01:48 PM
Brother Joe your ? is pending ... God willing see you soon
Reply

HeiGou
03-27-2006, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Andaraawus
I want to add to this thread but unfortunatly i am tied up in other things, I just want to say that maybe the brother didnt intend to insult and belittle by not using the capital J for Jews, maybe he is not too grammatic when he writes, even my level of grammar is poor and i get criticised for it alot. But yeh maybe poor grammar or even lazyness writing ...or maybe his caps button dont work ...maybe hes posting from a mobile phone and hes in a rush .... maybe ...he forgot?
I am sure there was no reason for it and certainly not a bad one. But we don't need to spread needless offense if we can avoid it.
Reply

Andaraawus
03-27-2006, 05:01 PM
Brother Joe wasnt satisfied with the hadith i gave to prove that Islam doesnt teach to hate Jews, therefore i feel it is a good idea that i represent the evidence and give my thoughts concerning them .

DOES ISLAM TEACH TO HATE THE JEWS ?

O Children of Israel remember my favour upon you (Quran 2:40 & 47)

look how Allah honors the Children of Israel, the tribe of Judah just so happens to be a part of the Children of Israel. plus Allah says clearly in the Quran in respect to the people of the book (The Jews and the Christians):

They are not all alike . Of the People of the Scripture there is a staunch community who recite the revelations of Allah in the night season , falling prostrate ( before Him ) . They believe in Allah and the Last Day , and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency , and vie one with another in good works . They are of the righteous (Quran 3:113)

Narrated Anas ibn Malik When Safiyyah heard that Hafsah had called her a Jew's daughter she wept. Allah's Messenger صلي اللّه عليه وسلم came in where she was while she was weeping and asked her what was making her weep. When she told him Hafsah had called her a Jew's daughter the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "You are a prophet's daughter, your paternal uncle was a prophet, and you are married to a prophet, so what has she to boast of over you?" He then said, "Fear Allah, Hafsah." Tirmidhi 1645

This hadith teaches that Islam does not support any 'Anti Semite' behaviour , Jew bashing and so forth, infact Islam holds the Prophets of Israel in the most respectable manner to the point where no Muslim will tolerarte you saying anything bad against them, Muslims get upset when any one of Prophets are insulted. The fact that the Prophets صلي اللّه عليه وسلم wife came from a Jewish background coming from the line of Prophets was a honor for her.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As Mujahid said that Abdullah ibn Amr slaughtered a sheep and said: Have you presented a gift from it to my neighbour, the Jew, for I heard the Apostle of Allah صلي اللّه عليه وسلم say: Gabriel kept on commending the neighbour to me so that I thought he would make an heir? ( Abu Dawud 2446 )


This hadith shows the high standard of morality that the Holy Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم taught to his followers. Abdullah Ibn Amr and his family were prepared to share food with their neighbour despite being a Jew which also goes to show how the diciples of Muhammad understood the rights of the people and that the good treatement of other people are not exclusive to Muslims only. It is not the case that non Muslims are excluded from such kind treatments.

Narrated Abdur Rahman bin Abi Laila Sahl bin Hunaif and Qais bin Sad were sitting in the city of Al-Qadisiya. A funeral procession passed in front of them and they stood up. They were told that funeral procession was of one of the inhabitants of the land i.e. of a non-believer, under the protection of Muslims. They said, "A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?" (Bukahri 2:339)

This hadith expresses the Holy Prophets صلي اللّه عليه وسلم concern with all walks of life and proves that his concern was not just limited to Muslims only.

Narrated Abu Said Al Khudri While Allah's Apostle was sitting, a Jew came and said, "O Abul Qasim! One of your companions has slapped me on my face." The Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم asked who that was. He replied that he was one of the Ansar. The Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم sent for him, and on his arrival, he asked him whether he had beaten the Jew. He (replied in the affirmative and) said, "I heard him taking an oath in the market saying, 'By Him Who gave Moses superiority over all the human beings.' I said, 'O wicked man! (Has Allah given Moses superiority) even over Muhammad ? I became furious and slapped him over his face." The Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم said, "Do not give a prophet superiority over another, for on the Day of Resurrection all the people will fall unconscious and I will be the first to emerge from the earth, and will see Moses standing and holding one of the legs of the Throne. I will not know whether Moses has fallen unconscious or the first unconsciousness was sufficient for him." ( Bukhari 3:595 )

This hadith shows that the Holy Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم even excercised justice and defended the Jew and took his side in the matter against the Muslim.

Ibn Ihsaq states in his seerah of the Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم that the Holy Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم had a Jewish servant who wished to remain a Jew and the Holy Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم did not force her to become Muslim but allowed her freedom of religion.

'The Apostle صلي اللّه عليه وسلم had chosan one of their women for himself, Rayhana d. 'Amr b. Khunafa, one of the women of B.Qurayza and she remained with him until she passed away. The apostle had proposed to marry her and put a veil on her, but she said' no leave me in your power, for that will be easier for me and you.' so he left her alone. she had shown repungance towards Islam when she was captured and clung to Judaism. So the Apolstle صلي اللّه عليه وسلم left her alone but felt unhappy.
(Ibn Ihsaq The life of Muhammd صلي اللّه عليه وسلم (sirat Rasul Allah) Translated by alfred Guillaume page 466 and Edward Rehatsek page 129)


The Holy Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم gave a Jewess her freedom of religion, i wouldnt consider that hating the Jews.

The Prophet of Islam Muhammad صلي اللّه عليه وسلم also taught that we should

'love for humanity what you love for yourself' (Sahih Bukhari )

notice he didnt say love just for Muslims what you love for yourself

'By the One in whose hands is my life! no one is a believer unless he loves for his neighbour what he loves for himself. ' Muslim . (kitaab ul imaan chapter 17)

'Behave good to your neighbour and you will become a believer,
love for people what you love for yourself and you will become Muslim.' (Tirmizi - book of devotion - chapter 2)

'None of you believe until you love for your brother what you love for yourself '


Imam Nawawi who is renown for relating this hadith in his 40 hadith says:

this hadith 'should be interpretated in terms of universal brotherhood even to the extent of encompassing disbelievers and Muslims. One loves for ones disbelieving brother what one loves for himself' his entrance into Islam, just as one loves for ones Muslim brother his continuance in Islam. For this reason supplication for a disbelievers guidance is reccomended. this Hadith proves the incompleteness of the faith of whoever does not love for his brother what he loves for himself' ( Nawawis forty Hadith, Hadith nuber 12)

We should see from this that Muslims are not taught to hate anybody, furthermore Allah tells us in the Quran:

"Let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably; act equitably, that is nearer to piety." (Quran 5:8)

Anas repoted that Allah's Messenger صلي اللّه عليه وسلم said to me: My son, if you are in a posistion to pass your morning and evening keeping your heart from malice against anyone, then act according to it, [this high ideal]. he صلي اللّه عليه وسلم then said: My son, and that is my Sunnah and he who loves my Sunnah he infact loves me and he who loves me, he will be with me in Paradise.

[Mishkat-ul Masabih, translated by Abdul Hameed Siddiqui, Vol. 1, Kitab-ul-Qadr, Hadith 175, Kitab Bhavan publications.]


The Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم once said to his Companions, “Do you want to see a man of Paradise?” A man then passed by and the Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم said, “That man is one of the people of Paradise.” So a Companion of the Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم decided to learn what it was about this man that earned him such a commendation from the Messenger of God صلي اللّه عليه وسلم . He spent time with this man and observed him closely. He noticed that he did not perform the Night Prayer Vigil (Tahajjud) or anything extraordinary. He appeared to be an average man of Madinah. The Companion finally told the man what the Prophet صلي اللّه عليه وسلم had said about him and asked if he did anything special. And the man replied, “The only thing that I can think of, other than what everybody else does, is that I make sure that I never sleep with any rancor in my heart towards another.”

When we look at these evidences we see that Islam does not teach hate, now somebody may say 'yeh but what about this verse of the Quran where Allah says:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends . They are friends one to another . He among you who taketh them for friends is ( one ) of them . Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk .(5.51)

The Quran must be understood in its context, Allah says:

God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you over religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. God merely forbids you from taking as friends those who have fought you over religion and driven you from your homes and who supported your expulsion... (Quran, 60:8-9)

i think this would be enough to say that Islam doesnt teach hatred towards the Jews, i think it should be a poll question

As for somebody objecting to the title of the thread, i actually chose that title and its a hot title which attracts the attention of the people and it allows us to discuss such issues, my question is why is it when a brother like me trys to explain Islam to non Muslims and skeptics by writing such articles gets Muslims breathing down his neck instead of showing me support and helping me? this is one of the most puzzling questions. :?
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-27-2006, 05:29 PM
Who's br. Joe?

:w:
Reply

Andaraawus
03-27-2006, 05:40 PM
:sl: brother Joe is Joe98 Joe is short for Joseph/Yusuf
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Abu Zakariya
03-27-2006, 05:54 PM
I saw the first couple of posts in this thread and some Bozo had the nerve to mention Chechnya in his list of attrocities done by Muslims.
I don't endorse everything going on there, but if any people have the right to stand up and defend themselves against the oppresor (in this case, the Christians), then it's the Chechnians. I mean, 25% of the population were annihilated and now they've even started to perform weird chemichal experiments on the Muslims there.
One of my best friends's brother was killed in Chechnya, may Allah accept him as a Shaheed.
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Andaraawus
03-27-2006, 06:09 PM
ameen
Reply

Ghazi
03-27-2006, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Abu Zakariya
I saw the first couple of posts in this thread and some Bozo had the nerve to mention Chechnya in his list of attrocities done by Muslims.
I don't endorse everything going on there, but if any people have the right to stand up and defend themselves against the oppresor (in this case, the Christians), then it's the Chechnians. I mean, 25% of the population were annihilated and now they've even started to perform weird chemichal experiments on the Muslims there.
One of my best friends's brother was killed in Chechnya, may Allah accept him as a Shaheed.
Salaam

Ameen
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Danish
04-12-2006, 01:39 PM
:sl:
I wrote an article on this topic called "Does Quran Promote Killing of Innocent especially non-muslims? How do you explain 9:5, 8:12, 2:191, 4:88 and many others?" which can be found on http://www.towardsislam.com/dan_1988...-innocent.html
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Andaraawus
04-12-2006, 08:50 PM
DOES THE QURAN ALLOW MUSLIMS TO MURDER ALL THE DISBELIEVERS???

“Kill all the disbelievers wherever you find them” (Qur’an 9:5)


1. “Kill the Disbelievers where ever you find them” is actually a mistranslation commonly made by non Muslims again and again, the word “disbelievers” in Arabic is “Kafiruwn” which is not found anywhere in the Arabic text of this verse, the word that is commonly mistranslated is “Mushrikuwn” which literally means “idol worshippers”, so this verse of the Qur’an actually reads:

“Kill the Idol worshippers where ever you find them” (Qur’an 9:5)

Yes, one may say that idol worshippers are disbelievers but not all disbelievers are idol worshippers, therefore it is wrong to use the generic term of disbelievers denoting the whole genus of non Muslims, in this manner many orienlentalists have propagated a clouded misinterpretation of Islam of being a violent and barbaric religion.

You can quickly refute the claims of the skeptic by cross refereing the following verse

Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who don’t fight you on account of your religion nor drive you out from your homes. Verily Allah loves those who are just. (Qur’an 60:8)

2. Secondly by quoting this verse for their intended purpose they are in fact making a contextual error, in order for me to explain I have to go through the context of this verse and give a short commentary about the reason for this revelation.

THE CONTEXT OF SURAH TAWBAH VERSE 5

[1] This is declaration of disassociation from Allah and His Messenger to those idolaters with whom you had entered into a contract and they did not keep it.

[2] Then go about in the land for four months and know that you can not tire Allah and Allah is to humiliate the infidels.

[3] And there is proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to all People on the day of Great Pilgrimage that Allah is rid of the polytheists and so His Messenger, if you then repent it is then good for you, and if you turn you' face then know that you can not tire Allah. And give good tidings to infidels of a painful torment.

[4] But those Idolaters with whom you had covenanted they did not detract anything in your Contract, and did not help any one against you then fulfil their covenant till the promised day. Undoubtedly, Allah loves the pious ones.

[5] Then when the sacred months have passed, slay the Idolaters wherever you find them and catch them, and confine them and sit in wait for them at every place; again if they repent and establish prayer and give the poor-due then leave their way. Verily Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


Reason for revelation:


There was a treaty that was drawn between the pagans of Makkah and the Muslims in which their was to be no war for 20 years however the pagans broke the treaty by helping the enemy’s of the Muslims with weapons against them. The pagans were given a four months security with a warning in which if they don’t make up for their wrong doing they would face humiliation except for the idolaters that were true to their contract as we see in verse 4 they had promise of security.

We see clearly from the context this verse was revealed for that time and that time only, for example the Americans were at war with Vietnam many years ago, suppose the president of America said or the leading commander of the army commanded their soldiers to “kill the Vietnamese wherever you find them”, if I was to quote the president or commander out of the contextual timeframe of his statement, indeed it would make him sound barbaric but if I was to quote in context then indeed it would sound very logical.

[3] The Qur’an is unique and you will not find another book on the face of the earth like it, I would like to point your attention to the verse that comes after the context:

[6] And 'O beloved Prophet'. If any of the Idolaters ask your protection, then give him protection that he may hear the word of Allah then convey him to his place of security. This is because they are the people ignorant.

Now do you know of any army general that would spare the opposition and escort them to a place of safety? Indeed this ruling is very unique, and Islam has many other rulings which offer security to innocent people in war and so forth, I lay down the challenge to anybody that can find me a more Merciful and Just battle warrior than my beloved Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him].

[4] THE TABLES CAN BE TURNED

As Islam can be made out to be a ruthless and barbaric religion by orienlentalists and the media by quoting a few verses out of context so can Christianity and Judaism even more so by using the same methodology, for example I present these following verse from the Bible:

[1] you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.” (Deuteronomy 7:2)

[2] You are to hamstring their horses and burn their chariots.” (Joshua 11:6)

According to the New Testament Jesus said:

[3] But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:27)

[4] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I if it be already kindled? (Luke 12:49)

[5] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division (Luke 12:51)

[6] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Matthew 10:34-35)

[7] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

8:12 is commonly used to say Islam teaches to strike fear into the heart of the disbelievers but if you actually look at the verse and what the people of tafseer have to say about its context and reason for revelation you will find that Allah sent angels down to aid the Muslims in a battle and Allah commanded these angels to strike fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, therefore it is a command to the Angels.

2:191 is very easy to figure by looking at the context in which you cant get any more Just than that when it comes to the ettiquettes of war, the Muslims are told not to transgress limits.

If you look back at this whole thread i am very sure you will find many Answers, i have looked into these subjects and still am looking.

wasalams
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Alphaseed
04-13-2006, 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by Prawned
Just out of curiousity, and I'm just asking because I am curious, why does a religion of peace have rules of combat?
I guess the 911 highjackers had not reach that page yet ,Huh? :?
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Ghazi
04-14-2006, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by Alphaseed
I guess the 911 highjackers had not reach that page yet ,Huh? :?
Salaam

Ask the US goverment, all they wanted to do was change the public opinion so they were angery and wanted to go to war and all of a sudden the US announces it's going to war with terror, funny really since america is killing people day in day out, and the majority of the west doesn't seem to care, I don't see no memorial's for the iraqi children, Oh I forgot the US is happy to think of them as the enemy.
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