i dnt think the punishments shud be substituted to plz the west
they shud do exactly what is ordained
that way there only helping the person to avoid much worser punishment in the hereafter
Somebody brought up a question about stoning to death. When was the last time a muslim country stoned someone to death?
i dnt think the punishments shud be substituted to plz the west
they shud do exactly what is ordained
that way there only helping the person to avoid much worser punishment in the hereafter
Asalamu Alaikum
I have a question, when and if you're being stoned to death, who has the right to throw the stones? Everyone? The family only? The law?
And how is this stoning done? In a public place where crowds gather or in a back alley somewhere?
just thought you lot might want to know an interesting fact
stoning to death is mentioned NOWHERE, in the Quran, do your research if you dont believe me.
Asalamu Alaikum
But surely it's not an innovation? There must be some backing to it. Hard evidence too I'm sure.
not everything is in the Quran
that is y we have the hadith also
and its not an innovation.
Please read the following article
i'm sorry...i didnt mean to say it in a direspectful manner
ofcourse the quran is perfect
but that is what i meant for matters of implementation the hadith is present.
yes i understand capital punishment but the particular punishment of stoning to death is not mentioned in the Quran, just a point i wanted to raise but im aware of the ethics of capital punishment.
Al-Bukhaari and Muslim narrated in their Saheehs from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with the truth and revealed to him the Book, and one of the things that Allaah revealed was the verse of stoning. We have read it and understood it. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stoned (adulterers) and we stoned (them) after him, but I fear that there may come a time when some people say: ‘By Allaah, we do not find the verse of stoning in the Book of Allaah.
The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stoned Maa’iz, the Juhani woman, the Ghaamidi woman, and the two Jews. All of that is proven in saheeh ahaadeeth narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The scholars among the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them), the Taabi’een and those who came after them are also unanimously agreed on that.
the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in the case of a married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.”
(Narrated by Muslim, 1690).
I believe Br Chuck is asking if anyone ahs heard or a recent occurance in stoning.
On the subject of stoning, etc. please read this:
Fornication and Adultery
This is defined as any case where a man has coitus with a woman who is unlawful to him. Any relationship between a man and a woman that does not contain coitus does not fall under this category and does not mandate the prescribed, fixed punishment.
The prescribed punishment is different depending on the marital status of the perpetrator. A single person who has never been previously married receives one hundred lashes as stated by Allah:
The fornicatress and the fornicator, give each of them one hundred lashes.
If the person is married or has previously been married, then the punishment is stoning until death. This punishment has been established by a number of had?th of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
The following conditions must be met before either of these two punishments can be carried out:
1. Four trustworthy witnesses must give testimony that they have witnessed the act take place with absolute certainty. They must be in complete agreement about all the details of the act, and about its place, time, and circumstances. If their stories do not coincide, their testimony will be considered false. In this case, instead of the punishment for fornication being carried out on the accused, the prescribed punishment for bearing false witness will be carried out against the witnesses. Allah says:
- Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they did not produce witnesses, then with Allah they are the liars.
- Those who accuse chaste women then do not come with four witnesses, flog them eighty lashes and never accept their testimony. They are the sinful ones.
It is obvious that the one who commits fornication in the plain sight of four witnesses whereby they can see every detail of his crime is a person who is flagrant in his behavior, who has little regard for religion or for social values, and if he is married, has little regard for his relationship with his wife.
This person fully deserves a severe punishment. At the same time, it must be known that there is no documented case in Muslim history ? to the extent of our knowledge ? where the prescribed punishment for fornication was carried out on the testimony of witnesses. In most cases, this punishment was carried out at the wish of the perpetrator in order that he may purify himself of the sin and as a means of repentance.
2. There must be no cause for doubt that can make the punishment fall away. If any doubt is present, or any way out is found for the accused, the punishment is not to be carried out, because Allah?s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: ?Do not carry out the prescribed punishments when there is doubt.?
Some things should be made clear at this point. The first is that if a person becomes weak and falls into this sin, it is preferable for him to conceal it from others and not speak about it or admit to it. Instead, he should repent, seek Allah?s forgiveness, and try to make up for it by doing righteous deeds. He should not despair of Allah?s mercy.
This is because Allah?s Messenger has said: ?Whoever comes with one of these filthy acts should conceal it as Allah has concealed it.?
Allah says:
- Those who, if they commit an indecency or wrong themselves, remember Allah and seek His forgiveness ? and whoever forgives save Allah? ? and do not persist in committing it, their reward is forgiveness from their Lord and gardens beneath which rivers flow.
- O my servants who have transgressed against themselves, do not despair of Allah?s mercy. Verily, Allah forgives all sins.
It should also be observed that, likewise, if someone is to see another Muslim commit this act, then he should conceal it from the public. Allah?s Messenger has said: ?Whoever conceals the fault of a Muslim, Allah will conceal his fault.?
It must also be noted that Islam has made the home completely inviolable. It is not permissible to enter someone else?s home except with the permission of its occupants. Spying is likewise prohibited. Allah says:
O you who believe, do not enter homes other than your own until you have asked permission and greeted their inhabitants. This is better for you, in order that you may remember.
Also, if a person confesses to this sin of his own accord, it is necessary to determine if he is of sound mind and in possession of all of his faculties. It must also be certain that he is under no compulsion or coercion.
Beyond that, he is afforded the opportunity to retract his confession and he is encouraged to do so. If he retracts his statement, the prescribed punishment will not be carried out. This is what Allah?s Messenger (peace be upon him) did with M?`iz when he confessed to committing adultery. Allah?s Messenger (peace be upon him) turned away from him many times while he repeatedly said: ?I have committed adultery, so purify me.? Allah?s Messenger (peace be upon him) only turned his face away.
Then he said: ?Maybe you only kissed? and: ?Maybe you were drinking.? In spite of this the man was insistent. Then, when the people were going to administer the punishment, he denied everything and fled. They informed Allah?s Messenger (peace be upon him) of this and he said: ?Why not leave him to repent so Allah can forgive him.?
The wisdom behind the prescribed punishment for fornication and adultery
If we look at all the punishments prescribed by Islamic Law, we see that they all have two inseparable qualities:
A. Excessive recourse to caution for the benefit of the accused and the large number of provisions that must be met before a punishment can be carried out.
B. The harshness and severity of the punishments.
This guarantees two things. First of all, it preserves the general security of society and reduces crime, due to the harshness of the punishments. The potential murderer who knows he will be killed, the potential thief who knows he will have his hand cut off, and the potential sexual offender who knows that he will be stoned or given a hundred lashes will think twice before going out and committing the crime. If, on the other hand, he knows that he will only be imprisoned for a few months or a few years, then he might not pay heed to the punishment and might not be discouraged from committing the crime.
Secondly, it safeguards the life of the accused and guarantees him that no punishment will be carried out until every excuse is exhausted and every reason for discarding the punishment is looked into.
If we look at fornication and adultery, we see that it is dealt with in this manner. The condition for establishing it ? four reliable witnesses ? is a very strict one, and the punishment is decisive.
If we look at the application of this punishment, we find many aspects of the wisdom behind it:
1. It preserves general peace and security, because one of the most important motives for murder is the violation of someone?s honor. Applying the punishment against fornication causes a decrease in one of the major causes of violating people?s honor, which in turn, reduces the frequency of murder. This has a direct, positive effect on public safety.
2. It protects the family. The family enjoys a special esteem in Islam. The widespread practice of extramarital sex is destructive to the family, undermines its integrity, and destabilizes the relationships between its members. The severe punishment for fornication and adultery has the effect of reducing its occurrence, which has a direct, positive effect on the family in two ways. Firstly, the family of the one who commits adultery share in the experience of his punishment, so they are discouraged from committing the act themselves, which brings stability to the family. Likewise, the family who had been harmed by the act of adultery benefits by the reduced opportunity for this crime afforded by this punishment, so its stability is increased.
Asalamu Alaikum
No one's answered my questions yet! :'( I'm tellin' mummy...
It is to be carried out by the state.
off-Topic:
Why wasn't the verse saying stoning for adultery put in the Quran?
Thread split.
Threads merged.
Thread moved.
Next time you have an off-topic question, Br. Abdul Aziz, its better if you make a seperate thread.
Insha'Allah, we can discuss stoning in this thread.
Please read this article:
http://islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=1397
No one invented any ahadith. They are sayings of the Prophet Muhammad saws. So when it is said, "On this day I have perfected your religion" it is meant that it has been perfected with both the Qur'an and Sunnah.format_quote Originally Posted by Staffy
On the issue of Salah, the details are all found in ahadith. The Qur'an only tells us to pray, it doesn't say how. So are you going to stop praying salah the way you do, since this is added to the Qur'an?
Obviously the problem is not if the ahadith add to the Qur'an, but if they contradict it.
On the subject of stoning, Umar ibn Al-Khattab said
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed...Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him. (Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816)
Please read this as well:
http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...&main_cat_id=6
the adultery punishment of stoning was practised by Prophet Mohammad(PBUH).So yeah I guess its okay.
Is there a story behind it why the verse was never put down?
""How do we know how to pray? the ansser is in two of the five pillars""
I anssered your question already Brother........
And yes some Hadith have been fabricated for as far as i know Allah in his infinate mercy and wisdom did not say they would be unchanged........Setting laws bassed on Ahadith especially seting laws about capital punishment, Why you might as well set those laws bassed on the Bible............Staffy
(P.S. Please read 17:30 and do not speak of what you know not......
I Did not state all Ahadith are false in fact i feel alot have much truth in them....But their truth is debatable brother so we must learn our ABC before learning arithmatic)
What do you mean "two of the five pillars"? The five pillars are an abstract number of practices in Islam, its not a book from which you can read how to pray!format_quote Originally Posted by Staffy
How do you pray? Either its in the Qur'an or Ahadith. How did you learn how to pray? How do you know that you're praying in the right way? If you want to check how many rakah Fajr is supposed to be, where do you look? Can you prove to me that Fajr is two rakah?
Just because Allah SWT didn't promise to preserve something does not mean that all of it will be lost. Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim contain authentic ahadith that have been thoroghly examined by scholars.And yes some Hadith have been fabricated for as far as i know Allah in his infinate mercy and wisdom did not say they would be unchanged
If the Prophet Muhammad pbuh told you to do something would you disobey by saying its not in the Qur'an?Setting laws bassed on Ahadith especially seting laws about capital punishment, Why you might as well set those laws bassed on the Bible
This is good advice. Have you studied Uloom Al-Hadith in depth? What is your background research in Mustalah Al-Hadith or Rijal Al-Hadith?(P.S. Please read 17:30 and do not speak of what you know not......
If you have not studied this is detail, then what right do you have to discard the centuries of research done by scholars who have established for us which hadith are authentic and which aren't?
I agree, so do your ABC's and read the following links:I Did not state all Ahadith are false in fact i feel alot have much truth in them....But their truth is debatable brother so we must learn our ABC before learning arithmatic)
http://www.islamonline.net/English/H...gy/index.shtml
http://www.islamonline.net/English/H...es/index.shtml
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/
The hadith about stoning is an authentic hadith. No one with any knowledge of hadith would reject it as unauthentic.
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