God must be perfect; it would be illogical to suggest that God is imperfect. Justice is a perfect perception, consequently God cannot be unjust; it would be illogical to suggest that God would be unjust. To suggest that there are no ‘good’ men amongst non-believers is ludicrous. To send a ‘good’ man to hell just because he is not a Muslim would be unjust and God cannot be unjust.
But the again it clearly says in the Qur’an that non-believers will go to hell whether or not they are ‘good’ men and the Qur’an is the word of God dictated to Mohammed.
How do you reconcile what is clearly illogical?
If you are a father and each one of your children treat his brother well and all of them have morals etc.. but one of those children always denies you and what you did to him , always treat you bad , never do anything from what you asked/orderes him.. is he just if he punished him?
thinker you must separate between 2 things if you want to talk about justice
there are 2 kinds of realtions here : 1- the relation between man and God
2- the relation between man and man
Allah will punish a muslim if he wronged a non-muslim this is GOD's justice between man and man
Allah's justice for his right to be worshiped and loved from those who he created - those whom where nothing before he created them- he gave them sight and taste and all other benefaction yet they deny him and reject
his faith and disobey his orders..if he decided to punish them he will be the All just .
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
God must be perfect; it would be illogical to suggest that God is imperfect. Justice is a perfect perception, consequently God cannot be unjust; it would be illogical to suggest that God would be unjust. To suggest that there are no ‘good’ men amongst non-believers is ludicrous. To send a ‘good’ man to hell just because he is not a Muslim would be unjust and God cannot be unjust.
I agree with Glo that our limited human understanding of justice, and mercy for that matter, is incomplete and it does not fully convey a comprehensive understanding of the absolute Justice of Allah nor the vastness of His Mercy.
How do you reconcile what is clearly illogical?
We are completely incapable of judging whether a person deserves Heaven or Hell. Our minds are extremely limited and we know only of Allah the portion that He has revealed to us. Why, heck, I can't even comprehend the distance to the nearest star 4.2 light years (4.2 X 6 trillion miles = 25 trillion miles). Why should I think that I can comprehend the Justice of Allah?
We do not choose to come into this world, our parents and God make this decision for us. I feel it would be fair to say that none of us would choose to be born, live a few years and be condemned to an eternity in hell if we get it wrong.
Given free choice we would prefer not to come into this world at all if we had to suffer an eternity in this way.
For God to be fair and just there must be a solution to this question
In the spirit of searching for a fair, just, loving and forgiving God.
because hidayah of Allah in Allah's hands...so let Allah chose the chosen one in ya family...so pray to Allah...that Allah pick some of your family into islam...! not anyone is good in luck...so Allah chose whom he chosen......! like grammy nominees! something that can win Allah hearts can embrace islam!
Jalla Allahu Fi 'oulah, Ma lana rabbun siwah.
laa ilaha illa Allah
Brother Makky, The Prophet's Parents practiced the religion of Abraham, the true monotheistic way. Is the way I heard, much like what The Prophet used to do before the decent of the Qur'an.
Brother Makky, The Prophet's Parents practiced the religion of Abraham, the true monotheistic way. Is the way I heard, much like what The Prophet used to do before the decent of the Qur'an.
Is that not a Shiite belief? (I heard it from one of their preachers.
Other sources (non-shiite) says that before the Prophethood of Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) all Arabs were idol worshippers.
Is that not a Shiite belief? (I heard it from one of their preachers.
Other sources (non-shiite) says that before the Prophethood of Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) all Arabs were idol worshippers.
To my knowledge Quraish in the pre-Islamic era used to practice some rituals that were linked to Prophet Ibrahim (a.s) but most of the religion (of Ibrahim) was destorted and changed with the filth of polytheism.
But Allah knows best.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
Is that not a Shiite belief? (I heard it from one of their preachers.
Other sources (non-shiite) says that before the Prophethood of Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) all Arabs were idol worshippers.
Yes, but The Prophet received from his parents the knowledge of the religion of Abraham. Which is how he lived his life until the Qur'an.It is only logical.
I am Sunni. by the way.
There was also a man who was an ummah by himself, he believed in the original form of the Abrahamic way, he was Hanifa, he didn't eat of the meat of the Quraish and used to condemn them. He used to say to them " Allah has created this animal, gave it life,gave it food and cared for it, and you slaughter it in the name of something else"
he will be resurrected alone as a single man Ummah.
Last edited by DAWUD_adnan; 08-23-2008 at 06:40 PM.
Brother Makky, The Prophet's Parents practiced the religion of Abraham, the true monotheistic way. Is the way I heard, much like what The Prophet used to do before the decent of the Qur'an.
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
Yes, but The Prophet received from his parents the knowledge of the religion of Abraham. Which is how he lived his life until the Qur'an.It is only logical.
I am Sunni. by the way.
The prophet's father died before his birth
the prophet mothers died while he was about 6 years old
anyway dear brother
evidence is there in the link i posted
jazak Allahu khairan
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
Yes, but The Prophet received from his parents the knowledge of the religion of Abraham. Which is how he lived his life until the Qur'an.It is only logical.
I am Sunni. by the way.
There was also a man who was an ummah by himself, he believed in the original form of the Abrahamic way, he was Hanifa, he didn't eat of the meat of the Quraish and used to condemn them. He used to say to them " Allah has created this animal, gave it life,gave it food and cared for it, and you slaughter it in the name of something else"
he will be resurrected alone as a single man Ummah.
We know Allah by his attributes. Allah is the all knowing and the Just.
There will be no unfairness in his judgment. The other point is that the Quran is the word of Allah and it clearly states that Allah will not accept any other religion but Islam.
I don't think there is anything left to interpretation here....
If I know anything about this topic then I will say that YES, all non muslims will go to hell.
Surah Al Asr goes...
1. By Al-'Asr (the time).
2. Verily! Man is in loss,
3. Except those who believe (in Islâmic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth (i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al-Ma'rûf)which Allâh has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al-Munkar)which Allâh has forbidden), and recommend one another to patience (for the sufferings, harms, and injuries which one may encounter in Allâh's Cause during preaching His religion of Islâmic Monotheism or Jihâd, etc.).
---Translation taken from muslimconverts.com---
This surah mentions the minimum criteria for entering paradise.
1. Believe in ONE Allah
2. Do righteous deeds
3. Abstain from evil deeds
4. Patience
These four virtues are the minimum criteria. All other people are at loss.
I heard this in a lecture from Dr.Zakir Naik. For those who do not know him, he is a well-known and extremely literate in Islam. He can literally quote verses not only from Quran but from many other books including Bible.
Your duty as a muslim is to pray and make DUA for your family members that ALLAH SWT may guide them while you can and while they are still alive. If a person dies on Shirk (associating partners) then that when its too late. Try your best be a good muslim, show a good example and pray that Allah SWT will guide them because then you will have the best of them in this world and in the hereafter. Remember that even if your parents do not join you in heaven, there is no dispair in heaven and you will not sense the loss, because in heaven Allah SWT erases all dispair and sorrow and you will not even sense you are missing anything. Dunya is nothing like Paradise so don't even try to compare, as how you are living now will not be the same as in paradise. Paradise is more then any eye has seen or any ear has heard.
Saying that a certain person is going to hell, is wrong, no one can say that honestly, because they are not the judge, god is....and unless your a physic only god knows what lyes in ones futher.
Plz no offense:
but to say every born muslims is guranteed into heaven, is so far out there, let's see if a muslim killed another person just because he looked at him a certain way, it's ok because he was born a muslim? or have an outside affair in his marriage, it also is ok, because he was a born muslim? or beat his children because they play to loud, its ok because he was a born muslim? I think not!
All religions have the same basic laws from god (commands) and if ANYONE breaks those laws are surely in trouble...
Christians have the same attitude, no offense, they believe if you dont follow jesus your doomed to hell...
My point would be, a person must worry of themselves before they worry of someone else. For it is only god that they should please. And only god that they fear!
sorry haven't checked this thread in a while....gosh, didn't realise i was starting such a hot debate
yes I'm a new convert... my family don't know yet. I will try to break the news slowly......
As a former christian, I'd advise you to only speak highly of your new beliefs with your family, for only they can decide what is best for themselves. Don't pressure them in anyway it may backfire and you will be the one stuck with the concequince, I am as well in the same situation, my family is very much into the christian religion, we debate on certain subjects and then some we just leave alone, but for me to push it on them would only cause confussion and hurt, although I have not taken shahada, I have learned many things...however...I know of many muslims in my community that think I am as great because I have taken bigger steps toward islam than merely one that was born into it. AHHHH Freedom of choice... again plz no offense...
Saying that a certain person is going to hell, is wrong, no one can say that honestly, because they are not the judge, god is....and unless your a physic only god knows what lyes in ones futher.
Just as we can't say that a certain person is going to Hell, neither can we say that another is going to Heaven. Your post brought this hadith to my mind:
Sahih Al-Bukhari 5:518
During one of his Ghazawat, the Prophet encountered the pagans, and the two armies fought, and then each of them returned to their army camps. Amongst the (army of the) Muslims there was a man who would follow every pagan separated from the army and strike him with his sword. It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! None has fought so satisfactorily as so-and-so (namely, that brave Muslim)." The Prophet said, "He is from the dwellers of the Hell-Fire." The people said, "Who amongst us will be of the dwellers of Paradise if this (man) is from the dwellers of the Hell-Fire?" Then a man from amongst the people said, "I will follow him and accompany him in his fast and slow movements." The (brave) man got wounded, and wanting to die at once, he put the handle of his sword on the ground and its tip in between his breasts, and then threw himself over it, committing suicide. Then the man (who had watched the deceased) returned to the Prophet and said, "I testify that you are Apostle of Allah." The Prophet said, "What is this?" The man told him the whole story. The Prophet said, "A man may do what may seem to the people as the deeds of the dwellers of Paradise, but he is of the dwellers of the Hell-Fire and a man may do what may seem to the people as the deeds of the dwellers of the Hell-Fire, but he is from the dwellers of Paradise."
... and ...
My point would be, a person must worry of themselves before they worry of someone else. For it is only god that they should please. And only god that they fear!
brought to mind:
Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
I think assuming anyone is going to Hell is an act of arrogance. Just as assuming you are going to Heaven is arrogance. With both Christianity and Islam it is best to be humble before God and practice humility. Personally, from a Christian perspective, I know that I'm unworthy of salvation. It is only through God's mercy that I am saved. Knowing that I myself am unworthy of salvation, it would seem an act of extreme arrogance to presume I know the eternal destination of others.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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