Something to respond in regard to the marriage of Aisha

asalam alaikum again


i heard theres a hadith in abi dawud where Aisha herself mentions that a marriage wasn't consummated by arabs until only after a females menses - her menses signifying her adulthood.

Infact, the logic of these people is amazing because they themselves accuse 13yr olds, or 9yr olds of being children. Yet they themselves know that these 'children' are capable of having sex and even having children!


How is it possible that someone can have children and be a child? Their logic is confusing and they themselves throughout the different countries in the US, UK and Europe can't agree on a common age for adulthood. Try doing a little bit of research on this, but they differ - ranging from 13 till 18 - So does this mean that having sex in the Netherlands at 15 is peadophilia in the UK? Will anyone who follows the law of one nation be counted as a peadophile in another? Who's truly right?

The answers simple in Islam - if you're able to fulfill the duties of marriage, and are capable of it - then you can get married. However, if it will be harmful [and no-one can bring one shred of evidence that Aa'isha got harmed by her marriage, rather she benefited herself and billions of others in Islam (being in the top 5 narrators of ahadith), aswell as advancing in medicine studies] - which shows that she was perfectly normal and said nothing but good about the Prophet. Whereas a person abused would not praise their abuser willingly.



A 9yr old - young woman - with a child:



[these are just links to the image - incase people need it as a source]
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/3821/thaigalhx9.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...thaigalhx9.jpg



If someone said that a 9yr old isn't capable of having children or sex;

I would quote the following fatwa from Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azîz ibn Ahmad Ad-Durayhim:

As for the possible negative consequences of a man of such a mature age marrying such a young girl, it is patently obvious. The discrepancies in their capabilities, both physically and mentally, could bring about serious differences between the two of them that could lead to the failure of the marriage. This is something that has been seen and is well understood.

Therefore, I would not recommend such a marriage nor would I encourage it.

Moreover, with respect to what we have said about the legal validity of such a marriage, that refers to the validity of the contract itself. As for the effects of the marriage - such as privacy, intimacy and sexual relations - that is another matter entirely. Such things are permitted only if the girl is able to handle such a relationship without any harm whatsoever coming to. Otherwise, it is prohibited. This is because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "There shall be no harm nor the causing of harm."

It can also be seen in the very conduct of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He did not consummate his marriage with 'A’ishah for a number of years on account of her young age.

And from the fatwâ committee supervised by Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahhâb At-Turayrî we note:

The lawfulness of consummating a marriage at such an age is contingent on the maturity of the girl and that no harm would come to her.

So if any harm would come from it, then it is unlawful i.e. harâm.


Q: So why didn't Islam prohibit such practices that are harmful?

Actually, it did. It would be impossible for Islam to have an explicit prohibition on every dangerous behavior from jumping off a scyscraper to smoking, so Islam has provided a single broad injunction to cover all instances of harm:

The Prophet Muhammad (sal Allah alaihi wasalam) said,

لا ضرر ولا ضر

"There is to be no harming, nor reciprocating of harm." (Musnad Ahmad, authenticated by Al-Albânî)

And Allah knows best.

Aisha was fit for marriage - she never even showed any negative symptoms at all - whether that was physical, psychological, emotional [infact this marriage was so much greater for her (making her of the most knowledgable women in our rich Islamic history, and she even excelled in medicine, teaching etc. at her times.] these people may make assumptions against Aisha's well being, but they have no proof whatsoever for what they say. And assumption is not used as an evidence for us in our religion, nor do they claim to accept it as a proof for their arguments.



remember guys, that the only thing we need to prove in a refutation is the case of Aa'isha. Since she was mature for marriage in all aspects - she was fit for it at that age, and that's why it occurred.

Other people will be judged accordingly, and independently based on if they are physically, mentally and emotionally ready for it. If they're not fit for it, they don't need to get married, and if there will be harm - then that marriage may be annulled.

I'm a little concerned about this.

I'm quite happy to accept, regarding Aisha, that the cultural standards were different at the time, and not just in Arabia. That's a non-issue. But...

Firstly, suggesting that "if you're able to fulfill the duties of marriage, and are capable of it - then you can get married" in the context of the modern world is just plain wrong. The obvious reason, of course is that you have no idea whatsoever whether someone is able and capable of fulfilling the duties of marriage (whatever they may be) until they actually try. A subsequent annulment, that may or may not happen, could not undo the damage. In Mohammed's time the luxury of waiting generally wasn't available; it is today.

Secondly, there is no basis whatsoever for denying someone is a 'child' just because they are capable of having sex and having children. None of the countries you list has an age of consent as low as nine, or anything like it .. and in places like Holland it is a recognition that kids of that age will inevitably experiment with sex, not some sort of social and moral approval that they do. It's a balance of setting the reality against what is morally desirable, and protecting 'young adults' from those who would exploit them. I would point out that in Holland the actual age you can get married is 18, except in very exceptional circumstances.

Whereas a person abused would not praise their abuser willingly

Thirdly, I strongly suggest you expand your research to cover some psychology. That statement is, sadly, complete nonsense.

Although, I am not criticising the marriage of Aisha (ra) - in that he was a prophet and we can't compare, I don't think, as trumble argued, the arguements are really good to use.

Should stick to prophetic arguements imho (as some notable scholars do, rightfully).

I know you said no debate, but really, some of this is really bad dawah. Stuff like culturual norms is not a valid arguement, nor is it the reason the Prophet (saw) did it. A lot of things were cultural norms and were not allowed. Just because somthing he did was, doesn't mean he did it because it was cultural norm.

I only post this in that, people should be more careful as to what people teach others to use as dawah - as it can backfire pretty badly.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

Thirdly, I strongly suggest you expand your research to cover some psychology. That statement is, sadly, complete nonsense.

You bring proof that Aisha was harmed through the marriage, and i'll look forward to the response. Otherwise, i'll wait till then.


SixTen, jazak Allah khayr - i'll keep that in mind.

I have a deep conviction that in the near future, pregnancies amongst youngsters will become so common they will be considered acceptable. The age of consent will lowered, thus changing the definition of paedophilia. And those who mocked the marriage of Aisha (ra) will be left wondering what went wrong.. or right.

format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi

so back in the days people got married early, it was normal, in some countries people still do get married early, like the child groom and brides in many indian villages!

so let the haters hate, because they will soon face their fate

So true.

Modern laws make no sense. For example, in New York, a girl can get married when she's 14 with parental and judicial consent, but can't consummate the marriage until she's 16. What's up with that?

My great-grandmother was 11 years old when she got married and gave birth to her first child.

^

Indeed, who remembers the story of that girl who was imprisoned in a kidnappers basement for god knows how many years. In the end, the guy commited suicide. Strangely, the girl who was kidnapped, grieved for him. Why?

In an abusive relationship, it is possible for one to become attached to the other.

It is what trumble is talking about, that, you can't judge a situation as correct/incorrect, by the apparent state of the people. As people can be moulded, in so many different ways.

I would disclose, some other tribal practices, but they are indeed so sickening it would drive you to the toilet - but the point is, a lot of practices, become the "norm" and hence the people are not affected - but again - this cannot be used to justify something, in that "look they don't mind, they are happy etc".

format_quote Originally Posted by barney

The arguement is whether it is morally right to have sex with nine year olds.
It was morally right in the day of the prophet.
The Prophet did so, and he was a perfect example of mankind who has never been equalled. He would never have done something wrong.

A more puzzeling question is why is having sex with 9 year olds now considered something of concern amongst many muslims, when the prophets actions confirmed it as a morally exemplary thing to do?

You have made a mistake.

Firstly, not everything the Prophet did, we can do, such as, he married more than 4 wives - when muslims are only allowed 4.

He was on a prophetic mission - and scholars have given a range of reasons why he would have married Aisha (ra), ranging from political, to the protection of her from some of her relatives etc etc.

Aisha (ra) in the above situation, should not automatically be transpired into all 6-9 year old worldwide, to this day.

One could say that, as he was a Prophet, he would not abuse the situation, while men, are weak, and may abuse having such a right given to them.

The outright allowing of marriage of 6 year olds, may cause masses of abuse by people these days as you can imagine.

And lastly, although people may contest it, a lot of people still believe that the actual age of Aisha (ra) was 16-19 year olds, which even historians support - according to more earlier sources - I believe the 6-9 year old, although seen as authentic, is a later source - and hence we may have a conflict on our hand (I would urge brothers not to get into a debate if she was 9 or 19 though, you can't really prove or disprove either cases, both have support etc, and in the end, if she was 16-19, its not negative in anyway to Islam). So in the end, its all a bit of a confusing I guess as to how we should apply what happened to this day.

I have a question...

Why does everyone automatically assume that our Prophet (PBUH) had sexual intercourse with Aisha (RA) as soon as she arrived at his house?

Did anyone actually witness the act to say for sure what had happened between them? No? Did Aisha (RA) fall pregnant soon after the marriage? No?

No one except Allah knows!! So for us to assume whether sexual intercourse took place or not is ridiculous Astaghfirullah!!!

The Prophet (PBUH) was a kind and gentle soul. He suffered monumental pain for others. The least people can do is not jump to conclusions...

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun

I have a question...

Why does everyone automatically assume that our Prophet (PBUH) had sexual intercourse with Aisha (RA) as soon as she arrived at his house?

Did anyone actually witness the act to say for sure what had happened between them? No? Did Aisha (RA) fall pregnant soon after the marriage? No?

No one except Allah knows!! So for us to assume whether sexual intercourse took place or not is ridiculous Astaghfirullah!!!

The Prophet (PBUH) was a kind and gentle soul. He suffered monumental pain for others. The least people can do is not jump to conclusions...

I believe, it is narrated in hadith, that he had consummated the marriage brother - hence why it is assumed, not because someone witnessed the account. Infact, alot of things of the Prophet (saw) are known because of the relaying by Aisha (ra).

But does "consummated" automatically mean a full fledged sexual intercourse? Is that the direct translation from Arabic?

Could that not be referring to performing the final ritual of marriage? where the bride and groom are left alone in the room to celebrate their first night of marriage?

format_quote Originally Posted by Hamayun

But does "consummated" automatically mean a full fledged sexual intercourse? Is that the direct translation from Arabic?

Could that not be referring to performing the final ritual of marriage? where the bride and groom are left alone in the room to celebrate their first night of marriage?

Somtimes, shia'hs do say this. However, the sunni viewpoint is strong that, they did have a sexual relationship, by evidence of many hadiths that exist on the matter.