Pre-destiny belief in islam

the universe is deterministic to to the extent of what we call the 'laws of physics', ie. nothing that occurs within it contradicts them, otherwise we choose most of our actions don't we?

humans are responsible for actions they committed while being aware of and were not forced to do, so god does not 'guide' people or 'misguide' them as if he were some puppeteer, as obviously what's the point of reward and punishment then?

God 'mis/guiding' someone does not mean he mis/guided them in the sense humans interact with each other.

format_quote Originally Posted by languagemaniac

and thats why ı m not muslim...

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here are a couple of scholarly replies to your queries, whether or not they make sense to you, is rather inconsequential!

all the best

Name of Questioner

Hisham - Egypt

Title

Divine Predestination & Man's Free Will

Question

As-Salamu `alaykum. I never understand how we are mukhayyarin (have free will in doing what we wish) and not musayyarin (have no free will in doing what we wish). Did not Allah create time? Therefore, all the events since the moment of creation to the end of time must be already created. In addition to this, how can we even begin to imply that Allah does not know what is to happen in the future? How can a man control what he does if it is already written? So far I have received many interpretations that all seemed to be weak. Can anyone tell me or would it better just to say that Allah did not intend everything to be understood by man? Thank you.

Date

24/Feb/2003

Name of Counsellor

A Group of Islamic Researchers

Topic

Muslim Belief

Answer

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, we would like to thank you for your interesting question the great confidence you place in us. We implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and enlighten our hearts with the light of Islam!

As regards the issue you raised, we’d like to furnish you with a detailed discussion of the differnt queries regarding qadar as given by Dr Ja`far Sheikh Idris, professor of Islamic studies, Institute of Islamic and Arabic Sciences, Washington, who states:

“The original meaning of the Arabic word qadar is a specified measure or amount whether of quantities or qualities. It has many other usages, which branch out from this core. Almighty Allah says, “We have created every thing by measure (bi-qadar).” (Al-Qamar: 49)

Allah (Mighty and Exalted bre He) knows before creating anything, that He is going to create it and that it shall be of such and such magnitude, quality or nature, etc. He also specifies the time of its coming into being and its passing away, and the place of its occurrence. If so, then one who believes in the true God should believe that there are no accidents in nature. If something disagreeable happens to him, he should say “Allah qaddara (ordained), and He did what He willed” and not grieve himself by wishing that it had not occurred, or worrying why it should occur. If, in contrast, something agreeable happens to him he should not boast of it, but thank Allah for it. In this context, Allah says, “Naught of disaster befalleth in the earth or in yourselves but it is in a Book before We bring it into being. Lo! That is easy for Allah. That ye grieve not for the sake of that which hath escaped you, nor yet exult because of that which hath been given. Allah loveth not all prideful boasters.” (Al-Hadid: 22-23)

If Allah Almighty predetermines everything, that includes our so-called free actions, in what way can they be said to be free, and how are we responsible for them? This question occasioned the appearance, at a very early history of Islam, of two extreme theological sects. One of them, called the Qadariyyah, asserted man’s free will and responsibility to the extent of denying Allah’s foreknowledge, and claiming that Allah knows our free made actions only after we have performed them. The other, called the Jabriyyah, held the opposite view and claimed that there was no difference between the motions of inanimate things and our movements in performing so-called free actions, and that when we use intentional language we speak only metaphorically.

But there is no need to go to such extremes, since it is not difficult to reconcile Divine qadar (predestination) and human responsibility. Allah decided to create man as a free agent, but He knows (and how can He not know!) before creating every man how he is going to use his free will; what, for instance, his reaction would be when a Prophet clarifies Allah’s message to him. This foreknowledge and its registering in a ‘Book’ is called qadar.

“But if we are free to use our will” a Qadari might say, “we may use it in ways that contradict Allah’s will, and in that case we would not be right in claiming that everything is willed or decreed by Allah.”

The Qur’an answers this question by reminding us that it was Allah who willed that we shall be of free will, and it is He who allows us to use our will. Allah, Most High, says, “Lo! This is an Admonishment, that whosoever will may choose a way unto his Lord. Yet ye will not, unless Allah willeth. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.” (Al-Insan: 29-30)

“If so,” a Qadari might say, “He could have prevented us from doing evil."

Yes indeed He could. Allah says, “Had Allah willed, He would have brought them all together to the guidance; if thy Lord had willed whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together.” (Yunus: 99) “Had Allah willed, they were not idolaters; and We have not appointed thee a watcher over them neither art thou their guardian.” (Al-An`am: 107)

But Allah has willed that men shall be free especially in regard to matters of belief and disbelief. Allah Almighty says, “Say: The truth is from your Lord; so let whosoever will believe, and let whosoever will disbelieve.” (Al-Kahf: 29)

But men would not be so free if whenever any of them wills to do evil Allah prevents him from doing it and compels him to do good.

“If our actions are willed by Allah,” someone might say, “then they are in fact His actions.”

This objection is based on a confusion that Allah wills what we will in the sense of granting us the will to choose and enabling us to execute that will, i.e., He creates all that makes it possible for us to do it. He does not will it in the sense of doing it, otherwise it would be quite in order to say, when we drink or eat or sleep for instance that Allah performed these actions. Allah creates them, He does not do or perform them.

Another objection, based on another confusion, is that if Allah allows us to do evil, then He approves of it and likes it.

However, to will something in the sense of allowing a person to do it is one thing; and to approve of his action and commend it, is quite another, NOT everything that Allah wills He likes. He has, as we have just read in the Qur’an, granted man the choice between belief and disbelief, but He does not, of course, like men to disbelieve (to be thankless). Allah Almighty says, “If you art ungrateful, Allah is independent of you. Yet He approves not ungratefulness in His servants; but if you are grateful, He will approve it in you.” (Az-Zumar: 7)”

Based on Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris’s article “Belief in Qadar”. (Source: http://isgkc.org/pillars_qadar.htm).

You can also read:

Between Destiny, Working and Free Will

Fate or Free Will, Nature or Nurture


Title

Predestination and Making Effort: Any Contradiction?

Question

Is everything in this world—death, sustenance, success, failure, happiness, misery, etc.—predestined for man? And is it true that some people are predestined to enter Paradise and others predestined to be admitted to the Hellfire? If so, what is the value of man's deeds? Can doctors save a person in an accident from death? Do hard work and perseverance and wise management of trade or agriculture or manufacturing have something to do with increasing one's income, or is one's income predetermined whether one is a hard worker or not?

Date

10/Nov/2005

Name of Mufti

Yusuf Al-Qaradawi

Topic

Muslim Creed, Muslim Belief

Answer

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Thanks for your question, and we earnestly implore Allah to guide us all to the best both in this world and in the Hereafter.
Islam ordains Muslims to make use of the available means and do their best to bring themselves benefits and ward off evils and harm, all the while believing, heart and soul, that this all cannot be achieved without Almighty Allah's will. Alah's foreknowledge of man's actions doesn't contradict making use of the available means, as Allah has predestined the outcomes of events and predetermined the means leading to them.
In his response to the question, the eminent Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi states the following:

The issue raised in the question has been debated for years. It seems that people will never cease to raise this question, but there is no cause to be confused regarding it, for Islam has given a complete answer to it, as illustrated in the following points:
1. Everything in this universe is predestined and registered with Almighty Allah. This is an established principle in Islam, though we do not know the kind or nature of this registering. All what Muslims should know in this regard is that Almighty Allah has created this universe and everything therein according to a predetermined measurement with Him and that He is All-Knowing over everything and keeps count of all things. Everything taking place in this universe happens within His knowledge and will. He Almighty says:
(And not an atom's weight in the earth or in the sky escapeth your Lord, nor what is less than that or greater than that, but it is (written) in a clear Book.) (Yunus 10:61)
(Not a leaf falleth but He knoweth it, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, naught of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a clear record. ‏) (Al-An`am 6:59)
(Naught of disaster befalleth in the earth or in yourselves but it is in a Book before We bring it into being. Lo! That is easy for Allah‏.) (Al-Hadid 57:22)
2. This foreknowledge of Almighty Allah and His keeping count of all things and registering them before they happen do not contradict working hard and making use of the available means. Almighty Allah has predetermined the outcomes of events. He has also predetermined the means leading to these outcomes. For instance, He Almighty does not predetermine a student's success haphazardly; in order for a student to succeed, he or she is to undertake the available means leading to success such as hard work, attention in class, and perseverance. One's acting according to the available means does not contradict predestination; on the contrary, it is part of this predestination. That is why when the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was asked whether medical treatments and protective statements of dhikr might ward off Allah's predestination, he (peace and blessings be upon him) decisively answered, "They are (part) of Allah's destination" (Ahmad, Ibn Majah, and At-Tirmidhi).
When plague was widespread in the Levant during the caliphate of `Umar, he, after consulting the other Companions with him, decided not to enter it. Some people said to him, "Do you flee from Allah's predestination?" He (may Allah be pleased with him) answered, "Yes, I flee from Allah's predestination to Allah's predestination too. Suppose that there are two pieces of land, one fertile and the other barren. If I farmed the fertile one, would I not be doing so according to Allah's predestination? and if I farmed the barren one, would this not be too according to Allah's predestination!"
3. Predestination is a matter of the Unseen. We know that something is predestined only after it takes place. Before its occurrence we are ordained to follow the natural laws of doing things and the teachings of Shari`ah so that we bring about benefits in both this world and the Hereafter. This requires us to make use of the lawful available means of doing things, as did the person who most believed in Allah's predestination, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). In the beginning of the Islamic call, he advised the Muslims under persecution in Makkah to migrate to Abyssinia. In the Hijrah to Madinah, he took all the required precautions and preparations for guaranteeing a safe journey.
For example, he prepared the camels that would take him and his companion Abu Bakr to Madinah, changed the route [to throw off pursuit], hired the guide that would show them that route, hid in a cave during the journey, arranged someone to bring them food and water [while they hid in the cave], and provided his family with means of sustenance that would suffice them for about a year. Mind that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) did not leave his family without sustenance, depending on Providence alone in this regard.
In the battles against the disbelievers, he would take all the required precautions too: He would send scouts to bring him information about the enemy, wear armor and a helmet, distribute archers, etc. When a person asked him whether he could untie his camel and depend on Allah to protect it for him or he had to tie it, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) answered him, "Tie it and depend on Allah (in all your affairs after making use of all the required means)" (Ibn Hibban, Ibn Khuzaimah and At-Tabarani). The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) also said, "One should run away from the leper as one runs away from a lion"‏ (Al-Bukhari) and, "The cattle suffering from a disease should not be mixed with healthy cattle (as a precaution)"(Al-Bukhari).‏
4. Lazy and sinful people should not attribute their failure and sins to predestination. Doing so is a sign of inability and denial of responsibility. May Allah have mercy upon Dr. Muhammad Iqbal who said, "A Muslim of weak faith does nothing and attributes his failure to predestination; while a Muslim of strong faith does his best and if he then fails, he says this is Allah's predestination that cannot be avoided." The early Muslims were of this latter type. In one of the battles of the Islamic conquests, Al-Mughirah ibn Shu`bah entered unto a Roman leader who asked, "Who are you?" Al-Mughirah answered, "We are Allah's predestination that has befallen you, so had you been on a cloud, we would have ascended to you or you would have descended to us!"
Hence, a person should not attribute his failure to predestination until he has spared no effort to avoid this failure. Two Muslims were wrestling before the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). The defeated person said at the end of wrestling, "Allah suffices me." The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) saw this statement as reflecting the man's failure and laziness to resist his opponent in the game; hence the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to him, "Almighty Allah blames His servants for laziness, so you are to do your best and if, after this, you are overcome, you can then say 'Allah suffices me.'"
5. There are multiple fruits for truly believing in Almighty Allah's predestination. He who does his best in all fields and carries out all his duties while putting all trust in Almighty Allah, will be granted hope when he is faced with disappointment, courage and perseverance when struggling and facing danger, patience on being afflicted with calamities, and satisfaction with his licit gains even if they are small.

Related Questions

- Divine Predestination & Man's Free Will

- Influence of Du`a' on Qadar

- Belief in Qadar and Committing Sins

Are you saying that the course of events which took place would be the same as this time and that god, in his infinite wisdom, knows exactly how it will turn out to be, or that the sequence of events could change this time but god, in his infinite wisdom, knows exactly how it will turn out to be?

Furthermore, is he writing down everything that will happen, or everything that could possibly happen.

"Say: "If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid." [18:109]

Wondering in the infinite wisdom of God is both a source of inspiration, and also a source of brain freeze once the multitude and scale of things start hitting us, showing how puny human minds are.

It is proof that there is an all-encompassing knowledgeable entity that knows the details of incredibly infinite things.

I once saw an encapsulated glass sphere of water and an air bubble. Saw very small shrimps in them. It was on sale for around $500. I asked the seller what is it and why is it this expensive. He explained proudly that this a great achievement, that it is a complete closed ecosystem where you don't have to feed it or air it, just subject it to sunlight. He explained that it had three organisms: the shrimps, kelp, and a special bacteria. The bacteria eat the shrimp waste and break down for the kelp to use, the kelp produce the oxygen and feed the shrimp, and the shrimp injest some of the kelp and micro-organisms as well. All are in balance so it survives for years.

I asked him would it be possible for them to make a bigger sphere with perhaps five organisms so that we can see a bit of variety instead of those tiny shrimp that I could hardly see, and he said completely not! WHY?! He explained that the calculations of the probabilities of combining five organisms were far too complex and infinitely harder to balance the populations and types of organisms. I asked whether it is just possible to put interdependent organisms and let them sort themselves out, he said it doesn't work, they tried it, one species always ends up overeating and killing out another and the cycle of life falls apart.

Earth has more than a million organisms, and it is a closed ecosystem, with many subsystems involved. Just when honeybees were getting lesser and lesser everybody shrieked and panicked that an important factor in pollinating plants if gone will render life impossible to continue. But of course honey bees went nowhere, and we have no shortage praise God.

Now do you understand what is meant by knowing everything, and controlling everything?

Subhanallah

i wish i can find that old thread...who gives this kind of example using mathematical probability... it is so easy to understand lol...

and i was remembering this ayah



Yusuf Ali: For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. Allah does not change a people's lot unless they change what is in their hearts. But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect.

format_quote Originally Posted by tetsujin

That is not a closed system, the sunlight plays a very large part in sustaining that glass sphere's organisms.

I understand what you've mean't but that wasn't related to my question.


All the best,

Faysal

God's knowledge of every single human actions and events is infinite and all-encompassing. I already answered your question about everything being written down with the ocean used as ink verse. Every action and event and number of atoms that every microorganism has and every spot it will ever move to, is all known to God.

The sphere was relative to Earth, which is still subjected to sunlight despite it being a closed ecosystem. It was a comparison example to show you how far humans are unable to calculate (even with mathematically perfect computers at our disposal) population densities to mix together and let them sort themselves out without wiping each other out. You seemed in total AWE at the concept that God would know EVERYTHING we do and did and so I wanted to show you another example where millions upon millions of creatures had to be controlled and balanced for millions of years for them to ever survive that long. If God did this, why is it not easy to comprehend his infinite knowledge?

format_quote Originally Posted by tetsujin

More specifically, would god have knowledge of all events which are to take place in the universe prior to the creation of the universe,

How can it take place IN THE UNIVERSE if it's prior to the creation of THE UNIVERSE? But the answer is still yes, he knew what was in non-existence and what will happen before, during and after creation of heavens, earth and space along with anywhere or anytime else that we don't about.

or was the universe created and then at that moment god was also creating that knowledge.

God's knowledge is not a creation, it is his attribute. That's like saying "here is a truck, when will it become 3 tonnes?". God is not subject to anything and that includes time.